3 Types Of CNC Routers You Should NOT Buy, CNC Router Reviews
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2024
- If you're in the market for a CNC Router, and sifting through CNC Router reviews to find the best machine for you, this video guides you on 3 types of CNC routers to avoid and why. CNC routers are woodworking tools that augment your workshop projects, and they should last for years.
First are desktop CNC routers, also commonly known as 3018 units. Desktops have a very small working area which limits what you can make. They are typically underpowered, which not only restricts the variety of projects you can make but also leads to the premature wear of CNC router bits because the recommended feeds and speeds must be reduced below the required settings.
CNC Routers made of wood can be an interesting material for construction, but wood is not a stable material for the precision required in CNC routing. Wood is susceptible to humidity and temperature changes which can lead to warping, affecting the machine's alignment and consistency. Wood machines also flex under loads required to carve, which leaves rough cuts.
Belt-driven CNC routers are less of an issue than the previous types. The issue with belts lies in belt tension. If not set too loose, your carvings will be inconsistent. Too tight risks belts snapping mid-carve. CNC router companies often do not give adequate guidance on the proper settings of timing belt settings, nor do they provide the necessary tools to set the tension.
To ensure you buy a CNC router that will last for years, it is best to metal frames, and screw-driven systems, with large cutting areas.
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CNC ROUTER PROJECT SETUP CHECKLIST
Get the CNC Project Setup Checklist → link.idcwoodcraft.com/xi8r0n
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ROUTER BITS FOR CNC ROUTERS
→ 11pc carbide CNC router bit set (w/ free vector files) www.idcwoodcraft.com/11P-SET-W
→ 1” Surfacing bit required for surfacing your spoil board: www.idcwoodcraft.com/SU-10
→ Glass engraving drag bit: www.idcwoodcraft.com/ED-14
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SPINDLE UPGRADE PLUG-AND-PLAY KIT FOR BENCHTOP CNC's
PwnCNC Spindle Kits → link.idcwoodcraft.com/px5zi6
Kits available for Longmill, Shapeoko, Onefinity, CNC4Newbies, Inventables, Xcarve
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OTHER ‘MUST HAVES’ FOR CNC ROUTERS
→ Calipers: amzn.to/338MAt3
→ Hearing protection (plugs don't work): amzn.to/2Hs1RgW
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Recommended Design Software
→ Vcarve Pro (RECOMMENDED)→ bit.ly/3d4WrEU
→ Vcarve Desktop → bit.ly/3D4CwjH
→ Vectric Aspire → shrsl.com/37pw9
→ Cut2D Desktop → shrsl.com/36xfm
→ Carveco (budget) → bit.ly/37rhVbY
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MASTER YOUR VECTRIC SOFTWARE with Kyle at Learn Your CNC
Take the full course ↓
academy.learnyourcnc.com/a/21...
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VECTRIC VCARVE & ASPIRE TUTORIALS FOR BEGINNERS: bit.ly/3pdmFsi
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If you currently own a CNC router, please take a moment to take this survey to share your experience with it: bit.ly/3r5XzNh
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Cool vector files for CNC router & CNC laser: etsy.me/3oxX79l
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CNC FOR BEGINNERS PODCAST: anchor.fm/cnc-for-beginners
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Garrett Fromme
Facebook: IDCWoodcraft
Website: www.idcwoodcraft.com
Email: garrett@idcwoodcraft.com
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#diycnc #cncwoodworking #CNCforwood #ToolReviews #cncrouter #DIYWoodworking #CraftsmanshipTools #CNCRouterAdvice
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Get the CNC Project Setup Checklist → link.idcwoodcraft.com/xi8r0n
Not bad for a 17 minute commercial for your bits and affiliate links. Some of us don't have the budget or space for a large CNC machine. I have the Genmitsu 3020 and it does just fine for what I need. I can upgrade it to a larger size if I what to do larger projects, and SainSmart provides outstanding customer service. I think you are dismissing a very large part of your audience by putting desktop CNCs on your "don't buy" list.
Sainsmarts customer service has always been above and beyond fantastic! I originally purchased their 3018 ProVer mach 3 for milling PCBS and then upgraded to their 4030 with the 1010 upgrade. It is their customer service that has had me return to them time and time again. Now that doesn't mean I don't upgrade it as I have put on a 1.5kw air cooled spindle and a dust collection system (not to mention I upgraded to their new controller and stronger NEMA23 Stepper motors)
I bought a SainSmart 5.5 laser and had problems installing emailed them 6 days ago and haven't had any replies as of yet. Thats great customer service.
@@michaelmessuri7746agreed!
They are currently on a holiday. Chinese New Year 2024 falls on Saturday, February 10th, 2024, starting a year of the Wood Dragon. As a public holiday, Chinese people will get 8 days off from work from February 10th to February 17th in 2024. There may be a backlog when they return, but patience (and knowledge) is a virtue.
@@georgehedrick7631they should have sent you a booklet on how to set it up. It’s very detailed. The booklet explains it all. If it’s not working it’s broke. They sent me one they threw in with my frame. It cracked the red glass. Just asked for a new red glass. They sent me a whole new laser. But if you tried the book and it still don’t work. Give em another message. I don’t think they ment to ignore you.
Shapeoko 3 user here. My belts are adjusted easily and reliably using a guitar tuner and tuning to C3 (135Hz) Takes about 20 seconds per belt and that particular tension is in the middle of the best fit range for a Gates GT2 belt. The range tested by an engineer on the Shapeoko forum is 100 ~ 150Hz. My belts stay in tune for at least 9 months with minimal wear and no lost steps and they are not overstraining the shafts of the NEMA 23 stepper motors. I have cut metal to a tolerance of 0.0004" and I usually work to ±0.001" which is more than good enough for wood and will suit some metals like the non ferrous metals. I have cut 20mm thick T6 6061 aluminium and brass. Of course, YMMV in all things but I think you were being a little harsh on a machine type that has given me fantastic service since I have owned it.
That's an innovative and precise way to adjust the tension of your Shapeoko belts using a guitar tuner, tuning to C3 at 135Hz. Your method highlights the effectiveness of the machine when properly maintained, enabling you to achieve impressive cutting tolerances with various materials. It's clear that with the right care and technique, even machines perceived as more entry-level can deliver excellent results and reliability over time my friend! Happy cncing!
I see LongMill is based on wood. Its two aluminium rails are practically held together and apart by a large wooden base. So it's actually a half-wooden CNC machine, isn't it?
You are totally right! I stand corrected
@@IDCWoodcraft honesty acknowledged.
2 of 3 spot on. I have used 2 Shapeoko 3's for 5 years. Belts are easy as hell to adjust, no special tools needed. I have never had problems. Yes, screws are better but belts work great just have minor limitations.
Hi @goodwin. I had a serious fubar on this because my editor editted out a key part in the video where I said many belt drives work very well and they are not bad machines.I will probably pull this video down to get that corrected. Thanks for sharing and reminding me about this
You missed an opportunity there... I guess you are not a Meatloaf fan? "Two outta three ain't bad!" 😜
@@PiefacePete46 lmfaowrotf
@@goodwinml 👍 😜
For what it's worth I thought I would make a comment on Garrett's CNC project setup list. I just ordered one. I don't know if anyone else out there is set up similar to the way I am, but I will my setup for you. My computers are in what I call the office in my house. My CNC is about 100 feet away out in my shop. I design a project at the computer using V-carve Pro and when I'm done I transfer the files to a flash drive and take it out to the shop and plug it into the machine and create the project. That is if I'm lucky and don't forget anything. At my age that is a game of chance at best. Now you can believe me or not, but I have a dirt trail across my back lawn from walking back and forth from the house to the shop constantly, day in and day out.. That's no bull. If I had a nickel for every time I had to go back to the house and change something, or get the flash drive out of the computer, or go out to the shop and measure something etc., etc.,etc., I could buy one of each of Garretts router bits. The reason I don't have a computer in the shop next to the CNC is because I was afraid that the dust would eventually ruin the computer. Maybe, maybe not, I don't know that for sure. But ANYTHING that can help with this problem, like Garretts checkoff list would probably be a big help. It sure can't hurt that's for sure. So my suggestion to anyone is to get one. Why not? It won't cost anything and could actually have the potential of saving you money and keepig the burn pile a little smaller.
Jim
jimscott64, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Good advice. Thanks!
joannrice8359, you are so welcome brother!
I have the Shapeoko 3XXL and it has been a great machine for me. Their customer service has been outstanding. Only have had a few minor issues related to electrical interference. They responded back to my email message on Thanksgiving Day and sent me several things to help ground the machine even a year after I had bought it -- great company!
cliff5240, it sounds like you have the right setup for your specific needs brother! Happy CNCing.
It's all about your speeds and feeds. I can run any crappy bit and get decent life out of it as long as I know what the chip size is per rotation multiplied by the number of flutes.
I ran 5 machines for nbc universal for a decade.
kiwikid4688, good points brother. Thanks for sharing your perspective on this one.
I have a Bob's evolution 4... wood framed & belt driven. It's ok... it fit my budget at the time and has a decent size cut area (2×2). I've never had an issue with the wood frame moving due to humidity, but i have had belt issues a couple of times. Basically, the machine is fine for occasional use, but it isn't good for a business. I am not a woodworking business. I'm not in any hurry to replace it, though, because I've learned that i don't love a cnc like i thought i would. Basically, woodworking problems just turn into IT problems and that ruins the experience of building awesome things for me. Good video, brotha. Thanks.
thomascrow5037, very good points my friend. If the machine is good for your needs then by all means keep putting it to good use brother!
I love my shapeoko....no belt issues. Makes me wonder about your advice.
Hi @bierbarrel. I am glad your machine performs as it does and you are happy with it. As I said in the video, it is my preference and that this is not always an issue. I am aware many CNC's are belt driven and they can do quite well. The issue, as stated is, not knowing tension needs to be set for best performance.
@@IDCWoodcraft but you listed is a machine not to buy. ...I machine aluminum on mine but it does have a spindle and not a router. To me, it was a disappointing and inaccurate comment. Just giving you opinion....
@@bierbarrelSame for me, one of my machines is a little FoxAlien Woodmads with an upgraded spindle, and I use it a lot for small wood carving details, aluminium prototyping and cutting electronic panel faceplates. Little jobs that it’s not worth tying a bigger machine up for. That said, I think the advice is pretty fair if you’re starting out and want a (relatively) pain free experience.
I started off with a 4 axis Chinese 600x400 machine years ago and unless you were prepared to upgrade and strengthen them, you’d never be happy with the results.
With all that said, the quality of desktops are improving every year and there are now some all metal construction, screw driven, closed loop stepper models out there, so perhaps the differences aren’t as great as they used to be.
@@bierbarrelbelt is definitely a somewhat flimsy arrangement. One of the main considerations when I bought a cnc router was to go for a ball screw type system. I love the rigidity these offer, even milling aluminum
I mill aluminum on mine no issues...@@arbjful
I have a shapeoko and had an initial issue during setup but customer service was awesome. No more issues. I’ve made some incredible things on it too. 31”x31” cutting surface. Haven’t done anything that big yet but bought bigger size for bigger vision of projects.
johngrossnickle8874, right on brother. Glad to hear your Shapeoko has been working out well for you.
Forgot to mention that I’ve been using it for over 4 years now.
Nothing wrong with buying a small desktop CNC. Especially if you’re brand new and don’t even know if you want to mess with them or not. My first one was a small one, so I could learn how to use all the software before I bit off a big chunk of money. It’s a great learning tool that doesn’t cost a lot of money. There has been those that have spent $5000 on a CNC machine and it sits in their garage because they can’t figure it out. Might’ve been easier to buy a cheap one, and make a tiny coaster before you decided to make larger items with the more expensive machine.
Checkitfirst, thanks for sharing your perspective brother! I see what you are saying starting small before you invest in bigger machines.
Thank you!
LudwigSpiegel, you are so welcome my friend.
Hi Garrett I bought a South African made machine Con Craft Large it is a desk top machine belt driven the company (3D Print Boksburg) that I got my machine from have been absolutely fantastic I took the machine in for something I did not understand and they adjusted my belts for me awesome service 3D Print Boksburg any time that I have been in a spot I pick up the phone and great service.
flashgordon1599, glad to hear that machine has been working out for you my friend!
Very helpful. Will likely start buying my bits from IDC. Keep up the good work. :)
robertkerr, thanks brother! Glad to hear this one helped you.
I started out with the 3018 PRO desktop to learn on.
Now I'm using the onefinity 32X48 with no regrets starting out small.
petebernard218, right on brother! Glad to hear you found the right machine for you.
I bought my 3018 desktop cnc for pcb milling. Few upgrades later it has the rigidity to mill PCBs satisfactorily.
Now on process of designing a larger cnc for other big projects (based from knowledge acquired from that desktop machine).
I would live to know how you improved virginity
@@IDCWoodcraft hi. the sources of flexibility and inaccuracy of my all metal 3018 that I identified so far are the following: 1. poor design - (a) lots of areas in the Z an X gantries that have great torsional forces that amplify the vibrations from the motor and jitter during router bit and work piece contact, (b) big motor (200W) in proportion to the gantry size/design stiffness that further exacerbate the vibration and jitters, (c) having the stepper motor bearings bear most of the load gantry movement/stabilization (especially in the z axis where it bears all of the gantry weight), (d) poor lead screw and nut anti-backlash mechanism design (too much play), (e) open loop stepper motor control 2. poor quality of components used - (a) lots of vibration of the motor (mostly from the built-in fan), (b) too thin linear rails used (10mm on z and 12mm on x an z axis) easily resonate with the jitters and vibrations, (c) too much play between the bearings and rails, (d) use of short bearings (uu not luu), (e) use of lead screws instead of ball screws, (f) under rated power supply (results to a lot of skipping issues in my controller/UGS that sometimes lead to the machine freezing and unresponsive in the middle or later of the project - initially attributed it to magnetic interferences)
@@IDCWoodcraft so how I improved its rigidity were mainly anchored on those problems. (1) the bundled Z gantry problems are hopeless to solve, so I have to replaced it with a bigger one (300x125mm base and 200x125mm gantry of my own design with budget in mind (the aliexpress/amazon offerings of same sizes are just too expensive) - although this still takes the biggest cost of the upgrades (2) add a y extension like those offered in amazon/alibaba to maintain work area - 2nd most expensive source of cost (3) beef up the x gantry posts/beams to resist lateral and front/back movements/vibrations with aluminum plates and 4040 extrusions which also extent its height to accommodate the 2 additional 12mm x axis linear rails to support the z axis base (to improve the z axis from twisting/vibrating on the vertical plane), (4) adding additional pillow blocks (2 in all) to fix the lead screw to the frame and placing a flexible coupler between the stepper and the led screw to unload the stepper motor bearings, (5) take off the motor fan and replace it with a separate fan, (6) add close loop control to the stepper motor, (7) redesigned the anti-backlash with some added 3D printed parts to achieved an almost zero play (8) and lastly, added a capacitor bank to the power supply to stabilize it (made the magnetic interferences lie symptoms go away).
@@IDCWoodcraft although you could not be more right when you say to buy directly the properly sized machine. Because after I had a properly working machine and have learned some CAD and CAM, as a hobbyist, I'm already inching to make bigger things than the 3018 can accommodate! 😂Although as just for hobby purposes, I could never justify the initial cost of a proper cnc machine to my better half. But I guess for those who can afford and have the space, they might want to consider this.
Garrett, You standing on the LongMill in your description of it is the MAIN and ONLY reason why I purchased the LongMill MKII, I have had great success
with it and I have made many gifts for friends and family. THANK YOU for your videos, instruction and information through out these past years.
frankbudde7225, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
woow i was obouth to buy one ur right
thanks for the info
SalinasPeople, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I can't agree with a number of your points. I started my CNC Journey with a twotrees 450 cnc 18"x18" cut size desktop.(pictured on your videos intro slide) Its a fantastic little machine under $500. Now that machine sits idle but it was a cruical learning step for me and allowed me to decide if i wanted to devote the time and money to build a space and get a large cnc machine. Using the desktop allowed me to learn the mechanics of cnc and soon I built the 3d printed mpcnc lowirder 3 cnc. And a building to house it.
No regrets. Sure it has limitations but for my use it is fantastic..its in constant use for my buisness and is basically printing money for me. The mpcnc was so inexpensive it paid for itself in the first job and has been a profit maker since. The cut quality and accuracy far exceed what i require for my projects.
There is no one size fits all cnc machine. Gateway machines are fine .. I get jobs to cut on my humble $350 lowrider 3 from a guy that owns a 1.1 million dollar 5 axis machine.
stephengolaski6451, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
you sir absolutely right. but when you are low on budget and you are new to CNC you tend to buy cheaper ones to start off. same as me. i literally went through 100s of websites and TH-cam videos to understand limitations of budget CNCs. got so frustrated that i ended up building my own CNC with V-slot aluminum profiles and universal gantry plates and wheels. used Arduino and 8825 drivers for nema 17 motors and 775 dc motor as spindle. i know it was a bad idea to rely on nema17 and dc 775 but it got me to start off. had to do lot of tweaks to make the frame more rigid. after couple of successful tests i upgraded the spindle to makita palm router. still lot to learn and make adjustments but as a side gig i have no regrets. it was a good learning curve and compared to buying a cheaper unstable CNCs its better to build one at almost the same price. i have been following your videos and love your content. thank you so much for explaining everything in so much details, this helps noobs like us.
Naqshsalim, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Good Vid but for someone who talks about support for your machine, I would'nt have that Monport Laser engraver in view... Worst support I have ever seen!
Learned that monport lesson for sure. That's when I totally realized sorry is vital
Thank you from someone who is saving up for a machine I appreciate an honest opinion from someone who has experience with different machines and isn't being paid by a company or only has experience with one machine a video like this could save me a ton of time and money in the long run PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THIS VIDEO TH-cam NEEDS MORE LIKE IT.
gregwhitmore4223, right on brother! Glad you liked this one.
I own two foxalien machines both are belt drive. You are dead right on the issues with a belt drive and the issues of support. Oh the stories I could tell.
greymandalorian7625, thanks for sharing your perspective on this one brother! I appreciate it.
I have a longmill thanks to Garrett. Bought on his recommendation great machine. IDC Woodcraft is great on customer service I would give a 10 out of 10. Super knowledgeable and I learned Vetric mostly from his videos. IDC Woodcraft, Longmill, & Vetric can't go wrong with this combo.
georgehedrick7631, so happy to hear you have been enjoying your Longmill brother! It sounds like you are set up for success.
I started my CNC journey with Mostly Printed CNC (MPCNC), even though the machine that I built ended up not being so good, it did set me up for a good understanding of how CNC works. Then I bought a China made 4040 CNC (I know the name but I don't want to advertise for the company) router which is what I considered as a desktop and uses belt for motion driving. Straight out of the box I was cutting and carving. I could also cut aluminum. With my MPCNC experience, I pulled it down and extended the work area to 8040 (800x400 mm) by myself. My point is, everybody's milage will vary, and I am glad you did pointed out that you even started with wood built CNC, so what am I saying here, there is nothing bad about any of the types of CNC routers you said people should not buy it just depend on what you want to do with them and I hope this is what folks take away from watching this video.
abdultairu, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Ive just built the mpcnc lowrider 3...after buying a very nice little twotrees desktop 18"x18"machine to try out cnc and decide if it was for me...(admittadly, i dont use the desktop much anymore, but for me, it was a cruical learning step) mpcnc has been great..it has limitations, but it is amazing within these limits. A month later its basically printing money for me. The most amazing feature is the scalable size. One day its 4'x4' the next im cutting 4x8 sheets...and portable.
As an inspirational example..i was just given a job to do on the mpcnc from another in my industry that owns a 1.1 million dollar 5 axis cnc machine.
I have no doubt about getting my first CNC machine after your recommendations. Is it reccomended to void hard wood on CNCs projects?
messiahcacique1, you shouldn't have a problem with voids on hardwoods brother! Start slow and give it a shot!
Garrett I bought your bits when I first received my Shapeoko 4 and I have to say it’s been a great machine, I only had one issue with it when I first got it and there customer service was top notch and overnighted me the parts I needed. I wish my hobby budget was bigger but the Shapeoko 4 was budget friendly and it has paid for itself so I’ll probably keep repairing it when needed for now. Appreciate the advice though.
RonInAVan, Glad to hear your Shapeoko has been working out well for you and customer service has been excellent! It sounds like you have exactly the machine you need.
Great video, enjoy learning from them.
richardwhitney9428, so happy to hear this one helped you brother.
So if I had a lot money I would buy a big cnc machine but money is tight for me and I have fun with making project's with mine
Jeffery, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Thanks for the great information to know 🤟
vb5457, you are so welcome my friend.
LIKED & SUBSCRIBED !
Thank you very much for this video!
WhiteDjayanegara, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Interesting video and some good points. The type and size of CNC one purchases is dependent on a few of things: a) the type and size of the products one makes / intends to make; b) the amount of space one has available to use the machine in; c) budget available for purchasing a machine. For instance, a person making wooden earrings, trinkets, etc... does not need a huge desktop or floor CNC. I do agree though that one should steer away from belt driven machines, if the machine was going to get a lot of use. For occasional use, a belt driven machine may be fine. For myself, I have never made anything requiring a CNC, larger than 20 inches, and I do not intend to, as I have limited space available. I have made larger items, but they did not require a CNC to make. If someone requests an item, larger than 20 inches requiring a CNC from me, I will refer them to someone I know with that capability. My CNC is a combination of wood & metal. It has a wooden base and wooden supports for the 'Y' axis rails, which are metal & screw driven. The 'X' axis and the 'Z' axis are all metal & screw driven. I live in Southern California. My shop is not climate controlled, so I have temperature extremes raging from the high 30's to 105 inside the shop. I have had the machine for 5+ years and never have had any problem with it. The cuts are always consistent & repeatable, no matter what the temperature inside the shop is.
The advice, in the video, may be good for someone with a large budget, lots of room, and looking to earn a living with their CNC. For those who are just into it for: a) a hobby, b) have limited space & funds, c) earning some pocket money, or d) looking to make a little supplemental income, then a desktop machine should be fine. My annual income, with my machine (described earlier) has ranged from $5K to $35K per year, and all my products & projects done with relatively inexpensive woods: MDF, Basswood, Baltic Birch, Pine, Cedar, Redwood.
I think what he meant was most desktop cnc machines may not hold up long durations of use, because mounting points are small and prone to vibration, which increases over use. Secondly upgrading to a higher power spindle maybe difficult (not impossible, but difficult), a higher power means more stress on those mount points. It’s possible you could get away with it, but you have to keep in mind the high stress levels. Quite frankly I wouldn’t risk it
alpscraftshack599, you bring up a lot of good points brother. And you are completely right, you need to pick the machine that is right for your needs!
I have a Gatton plywood machine. It has been flawless for me.
leosteger2218, glad to hear that your Gatton has been working out well for you brother!
Actually I’m beginner on this. But I would like to learn more about it. I haven’t own one cnc . 😁
MarioCorona, welcome to the wonderful world of CNC brother!
Thank you!
Wish this video was out a year ago and I would've gotten the Longmill 😢
jessietapia4, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
What would you recommend someone in Europe market should get? I'm about to buy a PROVerXL 6050 Plus it's the best I can find in Europe market without braking my bank or buying a mashine for industrial use.
maxall3234, consider a stepcraft brother! They are made in germany: www.stepcraft-systems.com/en/
Maxall3234, go for it I've just purchased the same machine it was the best I could find aswell without all the import problems.
Hello, I love your videos, I learn a lot from them, I am about to buy a cnc, I have in mind the X Carve Pro or the Elite Foreman 4 x 4 which would you recommend or if there is a better one in the same price range, I will greatly appreciate your help
enriquealvarez_artesano, glad you liked this one brother! I have a video that should really help you narrow down your CNC choice. It will really help you determine what to look for when buying a CNC. Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/wLVNF0L-ZdU/w-d-xo.html
Good stuff Garrett! But, you’re kind of opening a big debate….
Yeah, I see that. ugh
Nothing wrong with a desktop. That is what i have it is great fop my needs.
user-yg4xi8le2c, it sounds like your machine is working out well for you brother. If it suits your needs, then by all means go for it my friend!
Thank you for this information.. I just found your videos and they are very informative since I am planning on buying a CnC later this year for my small shop..
rickpouley7561, you are so welcome brother! Welcome to the world of CNC.
@@IDCWoodcraft Thank You Sir!
Great video.
I Gotta start somewhere so I just got a 2trees tt450, been laser engraving for a while and just want to learn on a cheap machine, so when i inevitability cause an issue from user error.
JamesCreativeCrafts, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I have had a shapeoko for the last 5 years. Belts are easy to change, and the company was very helpful initially. Have not needed support for a long time now. 😊 no issues adjusting the tension, and it is very easy to tell when belt is wearing.
mimimitchell8551, glad to hear your Shapeoko is working out for you brother!
Sister😊
A lot of this contents I was disapprove on
I have a Desktop , CNCEST 4 Axis Cost £1300 Not cheap nor expensive
I had great support for when I upgraded from a 800 wat vfd to a 1.5kw VFD water cooled motor,
My cutting limit is 400 x 500 either in wood or Aluminium @70mm depth
I don't and don't want to make anything bigger
so really buy a machine that will support the size of the work that you intend to do
No point in buying a massive machine to only make coasters,
and i say this to any person who wishes to buy a Machine either it is a Lathe or mill or a Router and so on.
It is never a waist of money if you do your research first and plan on what you intend to make
spudnickuk , thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
You clearly have not looked at something like the Genmitsu 3030 which is really good for a entry level hobbyist just starting out.
Hi Peter. I have studied many machines and yes, have looked at that brand. In fact, that machine was a first choice until I emailed asking for a phone number to talk to someone (they don't have a number on the site). The email back said they can help me better thru email. We all know how email support goes. At that point...they were completely nixed from my list of suggested machines. Good support is everything!
They actually get bs onto you quickly on their FB page. Did you try there?
I started with a belt driven Shapeoko pro and I will say I think this one should not be included in this. In the beginning a well built belt driven machine works just fine. I carved MANY projects before I upgraded to the 5 Pro and sold the Pro to a new CNCer to start their journey.
After I posted I thought about a few things I could have said, namely that they do work, they just require some extra knowledge that isn't always given. Thanks for the feedback on that
@@IDCWoodcraft Anytime my friend. I just got the PwnCNC 220v 2.2kw 80mm Water Cooled spindle :)
Nice video garrett. I appreciate what your doing and look foward to more. Have you considered a review of the other entry bench tops,the 1fin. Xcarve and shape. Not against the longmill but heres whats good Nd bad about each.
samspade2519, you are so welcome my friend. I would be happy to do a review of other machines like the Xcarve and Shapeoko brother. I will keep you in the loop.
I just found you here. I like your information so far. I would like what kind of software are you using.
MarioCorona, I have a video that should really help you narrow down your software choice. Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/u1O6u5DITSo/w-d-xo.html
what is the max height of a product that can be cut?
donproctor3445, it depends on the machine brother! Your best bet is to reach out to your machine manufacturer for the specific machine you are interested in.
So, the belt driven, wood framed, desktop cnc isn't a good idea then?
frankhovis, it depends on what you are looking to make brother! I have a video that should really help you narrow down your CNC choice. It will really help you determine what to look for when buying a CNC. Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/wLVNF0L-ZdU/w-d-xo.html
really helpful video, can a cnc machine reproduce the image from a photographic as a face for a mail box
The78bluedevils, so happy to hear this one helped you brother. A CNC sure can do that!
I bought the E3 from bobscnc 3 years ago as an entry level machine. It has served me well and I'm still using it. One reason I bought it was because of your comments when you had the E4. Almost ready to upgrade to a larger machine.
mikewalden2243, glad to hear you like your machine brother! If it suits you well, then by all means keep working hard and keep learning everything you can using it.
Made my own, Arduino board, reinforced MDF frame, aluminum gantry, linear rails, ball screws, Mikita 1 1/2 hp router. 20” x 20” max cut. $800. Works great. Very little clean up. I’ll put my $800 machine up against any $2500 machine any time.
thisoldman7142, right on brother! That is quite the accomplishment.
A $2,500 at the same size 20" x 20" would smash your $800 machine out the water. 'Reinforced' mdf frame?? Reinforced with what?
I bought my wood framed machine right after you started making videos with your wood frame cnc. I agree with everything you said about it. Flex is BAD. Im saving up for longmill mk2
andyfinck6652, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Don’t pull this video please. You have your opinion and that’s valuable. I didn’t agree with everything you said but that’s life, no problems here. You’re an awesome creator and person, keep up the good work.
LaserGarage, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Leave this set up so that others can learn from your experiance. This is YOUR opinion and we can or can not accept what you have to say, thats each of our own perogatives. I agree with what you say totally - look at what other say who really downgrade not only their tool but the people who put them out. NO- don't take this down ! Your opinion Counts as well as anyone elses- KEEP UP the good work.
larryatkins6033, thanks for sharing your perspective on this one brother. I appreciate it.
As a Onefinity user Stay away from onefinity they have good hardware but the support is crap. They wanted to keep my CNC down waiting on parts. would not sell me a replacement monitor to get my CNC up and running. I had to wait for the part to come in stock on Amazon to get my CNC back up and running. (If it wasn't for Amazon my CNC would still be down) Was down for over a month waiting for the part. Onefinity support could have ordered me a working monitor but they was unwilling for days. Made me really regret helping with the kickstarter and owning a Onefinity.
st0mper121, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
When I purchased my Shapeoko Pro XXL belt drive CNC in November 2022, the OneFinity had just come out. I considered OneFinity and Longmill. The non-belt driven Shapeoko 5 had not yet been introduced. I went with a Shapeoko belt drive CNC due to the company's stellar reputation for service, the large satisfied user base, and the fact the company provides software for Mac computers. I have never been disappointed. The service has been exceptional. The company's videos, forums and multiple social media platforms superb. The machine has done everything I wanted it to do and clearly will do much more. Its quality and durability is impressive. The size is perfect for my shop. The software keeps improving. The belts have not been an issue at all. I infrequently, but proactively adjust them using a $10 luggage scale and the Gate's sound app. Belts take less than 2 minutes to test and adjust once every 2-3 months. Would I make the same decision again now that I know what I'm doing? Absolutely. By the way, I'm not angry at your video. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine which is based on hundreds of hours of hands on experience.
chucknesbit9424, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Desktop machine is not a bad thing especially if you are new to this, have limited budget and space in the garage.
Yeah, limited space was reason I ended on 3018. Otherwise, I'd bought bigger one. And learning curve is not so intimidating with such small device either.
@attepilkan, yes, when space is an issue, desktops are a good alternative in this regard.
@@IDCWoodcraft most likely I outgrow this at some point. Also, since you're pro in CNC; is blocking of firmware upgrade common practice?
I'm in the market for a wood CNC machine, but not even sure if they can make the main project i want the machine for, I fly medium to large RC planes and want to make my own Propellers from Birch and some other hardwoods,are these capable of doing that! props are between 16"-34" long
zulgadams5837, you definitely want a very rigid and precise machine for that type of work brother! I have a video that should really help you narrow down your CNC choice. It will really help you determine what to look for when buying a CNC. Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/wLVNF0L-ZdU/w-d-xo.html
Another issue might be problem #4. Software. 🤠
SirTools, very good point brother! I couldnt agree more.
I am afraid that you have lost me. I purchased what you call a desktop machine . I purchased the Nextwave SD100. This machine has a small foot print but does have a much larger cutting capacity than you described in your video, and guess what, it even came with the Vetric Software. I love this little machine it does everything that I want from a teaching stand point and I can even trade up to a larger machine and get $500.00 dollars off of the purchase , then they will refurbish the machine and donate it to a school ,
You know, you are right. I didn't get clear enough on this video. Your machine is an excellent machine! I think I need to take this video down.
@@IDCWoodcraft I started with an SD100 and it was great! And have added a NextWave HD500. My experience with NextWave machines has been very good. Machines are strong, well built, and customer service is excellent. -- Janet
I built a wood cnc to help me build a print nc cnc router without plastic components. It's 3x4x 3/16" thick squre tube. Cutting capacity will be 48" x 36" Ridgidity is key. Ball screws and linear rails with ball bearing blocks are the way to go. Also closed loop steppers are better than open loop. Pricy though, you get what you pay for. I also use Grblgru to control my machine (free) and inkscape, and freecad for cad. Also free. By the way grblgru is highly under-rated in my opinion.
pg9112471, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I have a next wave cnc that is 12 x 24 and it works great for what I need and they offer lifetime support
mikeesterline3260, right on brother. Glad to hear your nextwave is working out for you brother!
I have the xcarve. It is a belt driven machine. I did not purchase this machine. I have been “storing” it for my brother since he disbanded his shop. LOL. It’s been a great little machine. But I have had experience with shop bot. Shopbot is a beast. Love it.
While my xcarve was fine for what I was doing. The belts, as you said, are my issue with it. I don’t get super accurate cuts. It’s inconsistent. I’m sure if I upgraded it that it would be fine again. But it’s something that people need to understand before buying. 😊
AngieWilliamsDesigns, so glad to hear you have been liking the Xcarve brother despite the few hurdles you have with it.
I wish I had come across this video when I was shopping for a CNC for my shop. I wound up with a desktop 4540 machine and it is belt driven. I have made some nice creations with it but I am already feeling it is too small for main reason I bought it. I want to build guitars and with the machine I purchased I will only be able to do small body guitars. I am now looking for a way to afford an upgrade to something at least the size of your Longmill behind you.
canman4121, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I've had my shapeoko for 5 years made lots of nice things on mine belts are not that hard to adjust I did upgrade to a spindle early on I've never broke a belt I keep them adjusted and clean, customer service is great only had a few electrical issues, I'm sure screws are better but again I like my belt driven machine
butchmcgraw3138, thank you for sharing your perspective brother. It sounds like your Shapeoko has served you well.
You say wood frame is not good enough for machining wood. But machines for cutting steel are made of steel and cast iron.
Sure, when designing your own wooden machine think about how to make it stiff. Stiffness depends not only on material but also on design. A square tube will be much stiffer than a simple flat piece etc.
Yoggoth, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Good video. My CNC weighs about 4,600lbs. Metal frame and lifetime support.
It sounds like you have yourself one heck of a rigid machine brother! Happy CNCing.
@@IDCWoodcraft Thanks. I liked your video you did with ShopSabre. I have an IS408. Keep up the good videos. I'm looking forward to using your hog bit soon.
Great video. I'm planning to provide a CNC class in my location however part of the price will include a small cnc desktop machine. After seeing this video I have to think twice what will be my next move in terms of acquiring something cheap but good to provide those clases. An advice from the audience will be highly appreciated.
EduardoTorresDeMadera, I have a video that should really help you narrow down your CNC choice. It will really help you determine what to look for when buying a CNC. Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/wLVNF0L-ZdU/w-d-xo.html
i own 2 shapeoko 3 xxls belt driven, and one larger machine i wont name because i dont want it to sound like im bashing it. the larger one is a rack & pinion drive and is nowhere near as accurate or hassle free as my shapeokos. in the 6 years i've owned shapeokos ive had less than half the maintenence and expense and downtime on both machines combined than i have on th larger (4x8) rack and pinion machine which cost several times more than the pokos. as far as hobby / small business grade machines go, shapeoko is hands down the best bang for the buck. The people at infinity start throwing obscenities at you like derelict school children the second you start asking them simple questions. Same with stepcraft.
You are totally right! I was way off target on this video and it will be pulled down. I guess I just got a wild hair and didn't think that thru . Thanks for putting me in check
you're better at taking constructive criticism than I am. You have qualified your statements susfficiently. I do enjoy a lot of your content and have certainly learned from you. I appreciate you @@IDCWoodcraft
I started out with a FoxAlien 4040xe. It seemed like a constant battle to keep everything running, aligned, tightened, loosened, and just working right. Which while it was a pain, it is also what drove me to learn every single aspect of how a CNC works through the process. If I would have bought a nice higher end machine right off the bat, I wouldn't have learned all those things and knew exactly what I wanted for my upgrade. Extremely happy now with my Shapeoko 5 Pro with VFD and it's amazing.
I started with WM3020.
Right out of the box, had a bad limit switch. Took 3 weeks to get that. Customer service was bad. To reply it took a whole week actually. In the end FoxAlien sent me a limit switch. Then another issue came up. Z Axis losing rigidity . Turns out the screws loosen no matter how carefully tightened they are. Right after that the 300W spindle shaft broke inside. I don’t even plunge the thing lower than 1.8mm. TSo ye, it’s a constant battle with these other brands. If I am serious about CNC machines “buy my second machine first”. Lesson learned. It’s Longmill mk2, soon!
FoxAlien makes good products. The new FoxAlien vasto is a good cnc router
I wish I had went with something else than the 4040xe but I was kind of on a budget at the time. A bit of time and a couple hundred dollars later, now my 4040 is a 8070 with 4040 extrusion bones, higher torque steppers and gt3 belts. She can rip thru some stuff now. In hindsight I probably should have just built A workbee or soemthing, at least used c beam extrusions. Idk. Definitely happier with my machine now than when I first got it.
@@arbjful I agree, for the price and everything I think they are a great starting point. And they are definitely stepping up their game with the newest models.
PCPerks757, it sounds like your Shapeoko 5 is working out well for you brother! Happy CNCing.
I want a CNC router can I get the one you have where to buy it from?
vb5457, I have a video that should really help you narrow down your CNC choice. It will really help you determine what to look for when buying a CNC. Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/wLVNF0L-ZdU/w-d-xo.html
That was good but what about a chain drive cnc
peterlawrence4562, its all about the design of the machine brother and how good the support is! Give the machine company a call and see what they can do for you!
Once you've been exposed to a "real" CNC router, it extremely difficult not to view these options as toys. However, we need to remember not everyone has deep pockets and maybe just wants to experiment, learn and protoype an idea they have. I scratch built a CNC back in 2009 that I still use today. I put over $10k into it and learned invaluable lessons about dynamics and workflow associated along with knowing the machine inside and out. I see this a lot with similar Harbor Frieght versus Festool comparisons. Not everyone needs the best-of-the-best. But, to your point, I think this illustrates that if you're going to spend X amount of dollars, you should expect X amount of performance. In this case, there is 10x performance from 2x the price in comparison.
scobob, very true my friend. I appreciate your perspective and you really bring up a lot of good points regarding good tools that will last for years to come.
I read them all, but was really interested in video on changing from a router to the water spindle. But I didn’t quite understand what the benefit of the water spindle other than noise. Can you clarify that.
jongrace9133, a great benefit is thermal management brother! You will be able to put your machine in a sealed enclosure with a lot lower risk of things overheating.
jongrace9133, a great benefit is thermal management brother! You will be able to put your machine in a sealed enclosure with a lot lower risk of things overheating.
One flaw with your advice though. You said wood frame is bad because it expands and contracts and yet i notice you have your idc machine uses wooden table. How is that not affecting the accuracy when the wooden table warps.
OMG! You are so right! Guess I have some work to do this is a great call! Thank you
MDF is dense and dimensionally stable, and is not very hygroscopic (doesn't absorb humidity). Plywood is also dimensionally stable because of the alternating grains, but is hygroscopic, mostly on the Z axis (thickness). Painting or otherwise sealing can eliminate most of that. Either is suitable for platforms, and combined together are very strong, stable and heavy.
I have to say there are lots of cheap 3018 machines that are cheaply built. I originally used a 3018 to make a larger bar sign. 12/9 acrylic letters. Yeah each letter took 3 hours. Sold the sign for 3 grand and immediately purchased the long mill. And am now using the long mill mark 1 b m for my smokers. It was a stepping stone and it worked within its limits.
Windycitysmokers, I completely understand your perspective of using these machines as a stepping stone brother, thanks for sharing!
I started with, and still have, a Sainsmart desktop CNC. It was OK for me starting out but I was very disappointed with the spindle and its power. Having 3d printers I designed and printed a holder for a Makita router. Adding the larger router greatly improved its abilities but I do find that I don't use it very much compared to my larger CNC.
drkline69, glad to hear your larger router is working out for you brother! It sounds like you have exactly the setup you need.
Garrett another thing that I would emphasize, is be SURE that it is easy to "TRAM" the router or spindle on any machine that someone reading this might think of buying. I have a Shark HD machine and when I tried to tram the spindle on my machine, I realized that it can't be done. The way the machine is built, you are supposed to be able to tram it, but it is not built with that in mind. For all practical purposes, it is impossible to tram the spindle on my machine. Consequently when I surface my spoilboard I have lines in it, and I know you understand what I'm talking about. If your router or spindle is not plumb to the spoilboard you are going to get undesirable results. It won't be too bad and really small projects, but when you start to create things like signs with lots of text in them, the text is going to vary in size as the router moves from one side of the spoilboard to the other. That is the biggest complaint I have always had with my machine. I have always wondered what they were thinking when they designed this machine, because they sure didn't think about this part of the project!! I ended up having to shim the spoilboard with brass shim stock in order to get it as close as I could but it is still several thousandths out and it really shows. My guess is that from the front to the back of the spoilboard it is probably 1/16" out.
Jim
Jim, very good points brother. Getting your machine calibrated and trammed perfectly is critical.
Apparently my budget dictated my purchase along with my ignorance concerning a hobby I knew nothing about but wanted to try. Wish I had seen this video and chat thread before my purchase lol. Anyway a quick question concerning trimming the spoiler board. Garrett does your machine and any of the other enthusiasts here, have specific X Y adjustments for the cutting head to adjust it? I am lucky enough to also have a 3d printer and printed a trimming arm to only realize my machine doesn't have "adjustments" for this. Loosening the spindle clamp and tilting doesn't work I quickly realized as when the clamp is retightened the spindle returns to to originL axis. After watching video after video I finally found d out Loosening g specic screws of the frame and boom arm and slightly Maki g adjustments to achieve my goal was my only recourse. I can now only very friendly see any lines at all and can not feel them period.
@@codmwmybestmoments1263 I don't know what kind of machine you have, but it is really important to be able to "tram" your router. What that means is the machine has to have the ability to shim or use built in adjustments to tilt the router fore and aft and left and right. Not to take anything away from Garrett here on IDC woodcraft, but Mark Lindsay has a very good video on how to tram a router. Here is a link to that video:
th-cam.com/video/FzFPadoZH5Q/w-d-xo.html
I believe Garrett has also made a video on tramming a router, but I don’t think he goes into the detail that Mark does. Believe me when I tell you this adjustment is critical on the results you will get with your machine. You can get away with small projects that don’t cover much area on your spoilboard, but when you get into larger projects that cover a large area on your mahicne, you will see a big difference, and especially with text. You will find letters that are larger in size and that have been cut deeper than letters at the opposite end of a line of text, because the bit is closer to the surface of the material than it is at the other end.
Like I said, I don’t know what type of machine you have, but if it has the ability to be trammed you absolutely need to do this. Garrett and Mark both know lot’s more about this than I do, so if you need further help just ask one of them and I’m sure they will be happy to help you out. That’s what were all here for, to help one another and share information. Good luck and hope you can get your machine dialed in without too much trouble.
Jim
Very happy with my #onefinitycnc Elite Foreman so far. Not a small purchase, but amazing what it can do and never have encountered any software or hardware issues (knock on wood).
ThoenWorks, im so happy to hear that your onefinity is working well for you brother.
I was looking at those same desktop cnc on Amazon im glad i never bought them I saved my money and seen the long mill on sale and bought it... its still in the boxes. Still setting up my shop...lol happy cnc everyone
roblehmann2378, thanks for the support brother and I know you will be putting that longmill of your to good use in no time brother! Happy cncing!
I really hate to disagree with you. So vast majority of the video I 100% agree. Now Belt driven, granted I came from 3d printers and working on cars/hvac so I am more familiar with belt drives. I do concede that a screw driven machine is superior, no doubt there. But belts, you dont need a special tool, no more than you need a special tool to change to check your cars alternator belt tension. I have used the same rule actually, you want to be able to turn it 90 degrees, so like go from horizontal to vertical. No more no less. Then a test cut to make sure its all good. We are talking like 30 seconds to tension the belts on my machine. Belts stretching and if they are breaking are all signs of overtightening. Ive got a couple years of use on my Shapeoko 3xxl, really havnt "had" to retension my belts. Now I have a couple times because maintenance/cleaning are always key for machines like this. Now I will also throw out there, a bad designed/maintained(like bad bearings) belt driven machine will cause problems, learned that from 3d printers. ALso a bent leadscrew is also a bad day, again lession from buying cheap 3d printers. Really the biggest thing once we get away from tiny trash and are in the league of a metal frame machine is initial setup/build and really making sure everything is square.
drewpickard554, great points my friend. Keeping belts tensioned properly is a key point in making sure your machine runs correctly and prevents quite a few problems.
Yeah but does it cost as much as a desktop cnc router?
nathans7171, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I've tried to contact you via email and phone about a Muscle Chuck for an ER20 spindle but haven't been able get hold of you, can you respond?
michaeldague3578, I am sorry brother. Reach out to me at garrett@idcwoodcraft.com. I would be happy to answer your question there!
What happens to a CNC machine that is worm driven and it hits an immovable clamp or object? Does it have a slip clutch or does things break?
benvandermerwe2359, in this case brother it will either hit a limit switch if they are installed on the machine or you run your machine against a gantry.
Stepper motors can’t overdrive and will simply “skip steps” especially if microstepping. Some machines depend on this collision for zeroing!
Just so you can be informed properly. According to COPilot
Aluminum:
Coefficient of Linear Thermal Expansion (CLTE): Approximately 0.0000130 per °F (or 13 x 10^-6 in scientific notation) 1.
For every degree Fahrenheit increase, a 10-foot section of aluminum will expand by approximately 0.156 inch 1.
Aluminum has double the rate of thermal expansion compared to steel 2.
Example: If the temperature rises by 100°F, a 10-foot aluminum panel will increase in length by about 1.56 inches.
Plywood:
The thermal expansion of plywood is minimal.
It expands only when the majority of its plies have grain perpendicular to the panel surface.
The average coefficient of thermal expansion for plywood is approximately 4.5 x 10^-6 mm/mm/°C 3.
In practical terms, the expansion of plywood due to temperature changes is negligible.
In summary, aluminum experiences more significant expansion with temperature changes, while plywood remains relatively stable.
RBallarddesigns, thanks for sharing your insight and perspective on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
Thanks Garrett. Great information. Keep the videos coming. I look forward to seeing every new one.
TravelTejas, you are so welcome my friend.
Garrett, you're the man. Keep up the awesome knowledge. Thanks for taking the time to teach. I've learned so much from you. It's awesome you want to help others.
stacymcvey4229, you are so welcome my friend. Happy CNCing.
I have a CNC that uses a Makia router . My question is the water cooled CNC better than the router.
jongrace9133, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
I disagree. I have had a wood base machine it was very ridged and worked great. I have owned large machines with metal bases and there had too much room. I have owned tabletop machines. yes, motors are under speced for working with anything made with a few upgrades it is great for what I need it to do. so if a person don't want a big machine or it's above their budget these are a good way to start. Now I do agree that Bob's is a very weak wood router. I do understand this is your opinion.
Michael, thanks for sharing your perspective and insights on this one brother. Since there are so many comments, I can't respond individually to each, but I assure you I read and appreciate each and every one!
All this is well and good if you live in the U.S. but what about of those of us who don't? I live in Spain. What machine do I look for. And where am I going to buy good bits???
Buy a German brand machine or build one for yourself if you can.
russbissett, very good point brother. Consider looking into Stepcraft machines. They are made in Europe!
Interesting points. However, regarding the wood frame machines, I bought one for a very specific type of job, CNC cutting XPS foam. The wood frame machine more than rigid enough for this type of work. Regarding the expansion and contraction issues, I painted all parts before assembly to minimize this.
A wood framed machine is not the best tool for all jobs, but I think it’s the best choice for what I’m doing.
allensrcadventures, it sounds like you have the right machine for your specific job brother!
What beginner machine do you recommend in the $400 range?
Honestly... None
He does not know what YOUR needs are… get what you can, learning understand on the small machine..
@howardwilburn9066
This guy is in business to resell bits, gear and his creations and is the reason he cannot recommend a solution for you. I was into CNC manufacturing starting back in the late 70s feeding paper tape into General Automation Spec 16/60 and 16/220 controllers running Excellon Automation PCB drills and Paul Dosier Associates routers. I know first hand what it takes to produce accurate parts. Obviously, the more rigid the assembly, the more accurate your parts will be. If you're looking for a desktop system in the $400 range to get started, I would recommend the Lunyee 3018 Pro Ultra or Pro MAX. I would recommend staying away from the cheap Genmitsu offerings.
With belts you have much higher speeds than with screws
josipsarkanj9065, that is a good point my friend. You always need to weigh the pros/cons of each system and find a machine that works best for you.
@@IDCWoodcraft I made both diy cnc engravings myself ..the belt and the screw...
and none are perfect
Thanks Garrett great video brother. Love your bits and info.
JNewellworks, you are so welcome! I'm happy to hear that this video helped you.
Wonderful information. Thank you for sharing
norm5785 , you are so welcome my friend.
Yes, absolutely leave the video up!
Belt driven routers aren't appropriate for beginners, and they are absolutely not appropriate for those who need repeatable parts that are going to be used with other parts and need to fit perfectly every time. Accuracy matters!
mrwonk, thanks for your feedback on this one brother! I appreciate it.
The knock on wood machines is more because people don't know how to design in wood. That is a practical problem because you will run up against that if you choose a wood machine, and can't handle the whole deal yourself. However, anyone who says wood is bad because it flexes, doesn't know what they are talking about. wood is the single best material for stiffness and low weight, until carbon fiber came along. There are issues here because wood is better in certain load to dimension situations. I makes better beams than fishing rods. Another problem is all the machines that were designed using MDF, which is a terrible structural material in almost every regard. But these issues are not really a problem for CNC, as the reality is that beam sizes and such are ideal for wood to perform in. Also stiff structure wise, wood works exceptionally well with carbon fiber where some additional capacity is needed to increase the performance of wood at a low price, without going to all the hassles of designing in carbon from scratch. A lot of these 80/20 type beams are real loosers when compared to the performance of wood. There is a reason why sailplanes use wood and not aluminum spars. Aluminum is used with wire supports, but wood can be used to make unsupported structures, or wood carbon.
The US market provides such brilliant support to people who are using products like 80/20. However, in a lot of the rest of the world, wood is a lot more available material, and carbon fiber is a lot cheaper to import.
One thing I find funny is watching people who build CNC machines using a hard to keep straight steel support structure, then a large wooden base/spoil board, then they add the aluminum machinery to it. a lot of that could be substituted with a single well designed wooden structure, at low cost. Once you get to the gantry, metal makes sense. I think the whole 80/20 components could be done in wood, right up to the tracks. But I get it particularly if people just want to get something ready made.
I got a kick out of "you are using wood to carve wood" Ever see a wooden plane? I did a test on jointers and selected a wooden one from the 18 century, against a modern one in cast iron by Record. The metal plane is 3 times heavier, but the deflection under load was identical for both planes. I guess it makes sense as they are constructed to do the same work.
I never cease to be surprised at how little trust in wood that woodworkers have.
tacticalskiffs8134, you bring up quite a lot of good points regarding wood brother! Thanks for sharing your perspective.