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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มี.ค. 2021
- In this video I'm covering the replacement of the mainspring and rebound spring in a S&W (K, L & N Frame) revolver.
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/ @hrfunk
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As a S&W factory trained police Armorer who has disassembled their revolvers many, many, many hundreds of times since 1975, I'm happy to provide some helpful information. The factory taught me that it is actually easier and safer to remove and reinstall the rebound slide spring with a 1/4" round tapered blade screwdriver with a 4" shank and 4 inch handle, NOT a gunsmith screwdriver with separate tips and NOT one with a hollow ground blade. Those Brownell's tools are actually quite difficult to use and provide little control, as your video revealed. As my instructor, the late John Contos showed me nearly 50 years ago, I fabricated the same one that I use for all S&W revolver work from a high grade nickel steel screwdriver, by dressing the wide flat sides of the blade off and smoothing the sides round to match the shank, which prevents any damage to the gun. Simply push the blade by the right side of the retention post and pry up as you hold your thumb over the spring. It will never fly. To replace it, just push it in with the screwdriver as you press downward on the slide. When it catches the top of the post, remove the screwdriver and jam the blade straight down on the spring through the slot. With a bit of practice, each maneuver takes less than 3 or 4 seconds!
Screws should be removed with that same dedicated screwdriver. The handle should be slender to permit easy spinning that ham fisted screwdrivers don't provide. Some workers fashion ball handles and make their shanks from 1/4" stainless drill rod, and they twirl the shank. Always place your thumb adjacent to the screws to prevent walking and skittering across the gun.
The front screw that you removed has light "threads" cut into the leading shank. That identifies it as a replacement screw called "endshake screw yoke", which means that at some time in its life, that gun had endshake of the yoke, and required a wider diameter forend that takes up slop that develops on the mating yoke button. Such is a common repair for Combat Magnums. It's the diameter that make contact, not the length. S&W told me that they did not recommend a steady diet of full house magnum loads for their K-Frame revolvers, nor for the older Model 29s, which is why R&D undertook to redesign the system that had its origin in very low power calibers of the early 1900s, and is why their current Model 19 Classic and similar crop of N-Frames can withstand any punishment.
Costly aftermarket springs are entirely unnecessary. As per S&W specifications, the standard rebound slide spring may be shortened by 1-1/2 coils, which was frequently done at the factory with their N-Frame target sighted models. Always bury the clipped end into the slide. In addition, the forward square edge of the hump on the slide may be lightly rounded with two or three light passes (forward and rotate) with an India stone to allow the edge to glide to battery more easily by the mating surface of the hammer.
I cringed when that side plate bobbled around on the frame, which would get you fired post haste. The official manner of safely removing the side plate to prevent marring is thus. Remove the main spring first. Grasp the gun by the barrel, with the plate facing down. As you hold your left hand beneath the plate, strike the end of the but squarely on the edge of the bench and it will safely drop into your hand. Place the plate on the bench with the fancy side up.
Removal of stocks is very simple, regardless of how tight. Loosen the screw fully, then press it with the screwdriver blade to push the opposite stock into your hand from the frame. Never pry it. The other is removed by simply pressing it off through the skeleton with your thumb. You may see my complete demonstration of S&W revolver takedown and reassembly on my channel, here th-cam.com/video/4ujyLn3lHBc/w-d-xo.html
Keep up the good work.
Thanks. Will do!
I appreciate your input. I could never convince my administration to send me to revolver armorer’s training (even though we had officers using J-frames for off-duty and back up carry). I’ve attended numerous other armorers training courses, but with wheelguns I’m largely self-taught.
You talk about the new 19s and N frames taking “any punishment”. What’s your opinion on firing full power “original spec” 357 in the L frames with any regularity? Can they take it? I really like doing things the old way so when I learned 357 was neutered decades ago it made me really want to shoot the original loadings.
I have a Model 28. I run it with hot .357 handloads, and it handles them with no problems. I don’t worry about the durability of N-frame .357 Magnums. I feel pretty much the same way about the L-frames. Unless you severely overload your ammo, you shouldn’t have a problem.
@@hrfunk n frames are definitely beasts but I worry about the thin wall in the L where the cylinder notch is
Absolutely outstanding video. Each step clearly delineated and very easy to follow.
Thank you!
Good job H.R.
While some "gunsmiths" cut and/or trim the springs to gain a lighter trigger pull. I can't tell how many screwed up "trigger jobs" I have had to fix because of this so I am NOT a fan of cutting nor trimming them (I attended the S&W gunsmithing school).
Replacing the factory springs with either factory or Wolff springs is definitely my preferred method!
Another tip:
Polishing all surfaces with Flitz compound (Flitz on leather) to remove tool marks from the hammer and rebound also and on the frame where make contact will also make the trigger feel lighter.
The trigger pull on my 686 is about 9 pounds, but feels more like 5 or 6, and more importantly the trigger pull is smooth, but with an actual heavier (i.e. safer) trigger pull!
I think the same way you do. I don't like to cut springs. There are just too many problems that can occur from that. I would much rather replace them. Someday I may do some polishing oin the inside of my 66, but that's a project for the future.
Good morning, HR - As you’re aware, I have really enjoyed and valued your videos, but this may well be my favorite. The clarity and detail you provided - and especially the experienced-based hints - are simply outstanding. THANK YOU.
Many years ago (early1970’s), I did this precise job with a Smith K Frame M14. Eventually I succeeded, but I was assigned in the Aleutians and improvisation was often mandatory. So, with no Brownells tool, I finally was able to adapt an over-sized wooden “toothpick” to retain the spring, but it was a frustrating and lengthy operation (the spring did fly across the room once, and it took well over an hour to finally locate it). That .38 Target Masterpiece remains one of favorite revolvers and its side plate has not been removed in the last 50 years. My eyes have now deteriorated to the point where that sort of “minute work” is unlikely.
Your M66 seems ideal (especially with the now lighter - but not too light - trigger pulls). They are superb firearms, particularly (imho) for +P rounds. And I noticed the hammer mounted firing pin, which (at least for me) is an instantaneous indicator that the revolver left Springfield during an era of real craftsmanship.
I know you’ll forever love this firearm, CONGRATULATIONS, and its interesting to me that your new duty Glock and this Smith essentially tell the “tale of technology” during their last (maybe) 50+ years: precision design and craftsmanship versus simpler (but highly durable and reliable) design, utilizing newer materials and manufacturing processes. They both operate very effectively, but one is a “work of art.”
I totally agree Roy. The older wheelguns were true examples of industrial art. Thanks for watching!
Great video
Clear, concise directions.
Helped me through a process which I haven’t done in a while
Thanks
You’re welcome.thanks for watching!
My grandfather had a 66 just like that only a 6" I loved that gun sadly he traded it of for a model 65 great gun but not the 66. And another great video proud to be a sponsor so we can have content like this.
Thank you!
$15+ well spent. Now if you could just get ammo.😊 I have a couple of S&W 357's that I wouldn't mind doing that to. It's a pretty good return on a small investment. "Thumbs up" from this Kentucky boy. 👍
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Five Star video!
Thank you!
Howard, you are a great teacher. Thank you for this video.
You are most welcome. Thanks for watching Mark!
Sorry I didn’t catch the live feed this morning. This was interesting. I have disassembled and/or worked on many semi autos, but I’ve never had a revolver apart. Thanks!
You’re welcome Bruce.
I have always made it a practice to fit both side plate screws.
Small thing but removes issues.
Good as always HR
Thanks Sam!
Great Job! Brings me back to my S&W armorers class in Springfield Massachusetts......
Thanks! I was there a time or two myself.
Another terrific video HR! I'm always well informed after watching and feel more much confident about revolver disassembly. Thanks again.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Very informative and clear. Thanks a lot for sharing.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
Very Nicely done Video! Looking forward to seeing you shoot that Revolver!
You won't have to wait long. A video with that revolver on the range will be up in a week or so.
Taking that rebound spring out looks like an operation best done inside a dry cleaning bag. Lol. Nice video HR.
Thanks Ben!
Currently I am only allowed three pistols on my CCW permit, and two of
those three are S&W revolvers. Looking forward to your tutorial.
Excellent video! I can't thank you enough for posting such an informative tutorial. You are a very skilled instructor. I just purchased a brand new S&W model 617, and the trigger pull is painfully heavy and uncomfortable. After watching this tutorial, I feel confident I can improve this problem myself. Thank you.
You’re welcome. Best of luck!
I've had those "not so much" days too. Sometimes I have to run back inside and re-watch TH-cam videos made by guys with better eyesight than me to show me what I am missing.
When I take a gun apart I make a space on my bench and places all the screws and parts in a line as I go. When I am done I work my way back along that line putting everything back togeather.
That's a good way to go about it. Thanks for watching Frank!
With revolver spring replacement; I suggest that you replace the firing pin (if it's one that is NOT attached to the hammer). Upgrading the firing pin, to one that is slightly longer; increases the reliability of ignition. Doing so is a "choice"... not a legal recommendation. Personally I have found that most revolver spring kits, increase the chances of an occasional "Light Strike". By changing the firing pin (to one like Apex Tactical makes); I have had ZERO light strikes.
After watching your video I just replaced my same springs on a Model 65. Took my time and was careful, took about 30 minutes to accomplish with no problems. Thanks HR for saving me a trip to a gunsmith. I truly enjoy all your videos, mine are quite amateurish by comparison. Keep p the good work.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching!
I just ordered my springs as well for my 65-2. Did you need the special tool HRFunk had to remove the spring? That part looks a little tricky.
You don’t need it. It just makes things a little easier.
Good video, I went with the Wilson spring kit and it works well, made a huge performance upgrade.
Thanks for the knowledge, Hrfunk. I was thinking on doing the same upgrade to my Smith & Wesson Model 686 Plus TALO edition Revolver !!!!!!!!
You’re welcome Jerry. If you do that, let me know how it goes.
Did a great job of making the complex look easy. Thanks!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching Sam!
She is a beauty! Resembles my model 15 a bit. I have always loved the Model 66 trigger but agree the double action could be lightened up a bit and I am excited to see how it works out for you.
Pretty much is the same gun. The 15/67 were .38s and the 19/66 were .357s.
Great video! Thank you!
Enjoyed the video Sir, great info, Semper Fi
Thanks David, Semper Fi!
No matter what I did to my Model 66 I could never get it as smooth as my model 19 made in the late 1960's. They are basically the same gun but I think it is the stainless steel that kept me from getting that smooth as butter trigger pull. My 19 is an old PD gun with years of wear. When we went to the SIg P-220 in 86 they sold us the 19's for $65.00. The tool don't look like it works any better than the Bic ball point pens I have use to push the trigger spring into place for 40 years.
In one of the various S&W armorer's courses I attended, the instructor mentioned that the stainless steel used by the factory did not machine as easily/as well as the carbon steel. That may be why your 66 never quite equalled your 19.
First time seeing one of your videos. Really enjoyed this one. P,ain', simple and to the point. Thanks a bunch answered a couple of issues I had.
You’re welcome Billy. Thanks for watching!
Jerry Miculuk uses a ballpoint pin to put the trigger return spring in---works great!!!!
Whatever gets that thing back in there!
Excellent service as usual, thank you
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Awesome job with that revolver liked and added to my playlist
Thank you!
Very good & detailed instruction.
Thank you.
You're welcome Gary.
I like leaf springs better than coil in revolvers.Good one.
So do I. Thanks Paul!
As always, great job. Thank you.
Very good video. Thanks Jim
Leesburg Virginia
You’re welcome Jim. Thanks for watching!
Great video, I picked up on a couple things I was hoping to learn from this one. Thanks
You’re welcome!
I left a comment RE: a Mod 65 that locked up after shooting 125 gr @ 1,400 fps ammo . The pin that bent is the small one on the grip side of the rebound slide . Your 3" is so cool , If it were mine , I wouldn't chance hurting it . Too many good choices for good ammo , no need to shoot full power stuff . Save that for , L & N frame , Rugers or rifles .
I don't get how the pin got bent ?? I thought the force on parts was to the front , not the back ?? Like a bullet walking out of a case under recoil ?? Many Thanks !!
Trust me, that revolver gets a lot of TLC.
Looking forward to seeing it on the range.
I just recorded that video yesterday. Watch for it in a week or so.
Standing by Chief, as per usual.
I've seen several videos about this upgrade, and yours is clearly one of the top 2 I have seen. clearly explained steps, to the point, and very engaging to the watcher. One thing the other videos noted was the potential for light primer strikes and the need for an extended firing pin, did you have this issue as well?
No, but this revolver is one of the older ones that does not have an internal firing pin. That particular malady did not appear until smith, and Wesson adopted the newer design.
@@hrfunk they surely don't make them like they used to. Thank you for the reply sir
@@bobjames2312 My pleAsure.
Gotta love the combat magnums, I have a model 69 that I never leave home without if I’m going into bear country
Excellent content again chief
Thank you Jason!
This was the revolver that was so gunned up you cleaned it for a friend? What happened, Funk? You liked it so much you had to make an offer? It’s like fostering a kitten! You were only going to keep it for a short time but just couldn’t let it go?
I’ve had a few 66’s. Stupidly sold them off for FAR less than what they go for now. Beautiful weapon. Looking forward to the range video with it.
Thanks! I’m a big fan of the Combat Magnums. After I got this one up and running again, I worked out a trade with its prior owner.
Excellent video and very timely as I plan to do the exact same thing to my 686. Looking forward to seeing your next video. Keep up the good work 😊😊
Thanks, will do!
You should also loosen the main spring first before you take the side plate off you risk breaking off the hammer pin. It may not happen the first or third or even the forth time but it will happen hammer needs support on both sides you will see where the pin goes in the side plate
a ball point pen works well for returning the trigger return spring into place
Thanks for the tip!
Very good video!
Thank you very much!
Excellent video HR, thank you. Question; did you, or anyone else here, ever get occasional light primer strikes when using the Wolff main springs?
I don’t remember any with the Wolff standard power spring. I’ve had some with reduced power versions.
@@hrfunk Thanks. Was the feel of the trigger about the same with the Wolff standard power spring?
@@joedoakes8778 No, it was noticeably lighter.
@@hrfunk Thanks HR. I was thinking of some spring changes for my early-90s 3-inch RB M65. A friend told me he always got light strikes with the Wolff main springs but he may have been using a lighter weight. After seeing your video, I think I’ll got with a stock weight main and either the 14 or 15 lb rebound. Plus check for any burrs when I’m in there. BTW, I love how you resurrected that 66. The Combat Magnums were always a favorite of my but always eluded me. I remember, back in the old days, when half the cops in Chicago had a 19 in their Jordan Border Patrol holsters, some with Jordan Trooper stocks on them. Stay safe and keep up the good work.
I’m sorry, I misunderstood your last question. With the Wolff standard power springs, the Trigger pull was slightly lighter.
In your opinion what is the lightest acceptable DA trigger pull? I hear you can go as light as 6.5 lbs but to only user Federal brand primers since they have a reputation of detonating reliably.
I’m not sure what the LIGHTEST reliable pull weight is in general terms. There are other factors that also contribute to reliable ignition. I personally don’t want to be restricted to one brand of primer for my firearms.
Nice video. I have done similar changes to my SW revolvers. Not really hard to do but very easy to mess up. What dash number of this Model 66?
My Model 66 No dash has a SA of 1 lbs 15 oz and the DA is 7 lbs 5 oz. I guessing my gun had some work done it by the previous owner(s).
That would be my guess too. My 66 is also a no-dash.
Whenever I need to remove the rebound slide, I place the gun in a one gallon plastic bag. That way, pieces can't shoot across the room, or worse...
I do that sometimes too. That practice doesn't work well, however, when recording a video.
Very cool 😎
Thanks Dominic!
HR Funk I was thinking about try to lighten the trigger pull on my S&W 940. I doubt it is under 12 lbs.
The 940 has a coil-type mainspring. Removing/replacing it requires a different procedure. Just FYI.
Thanks for your video!!!
Thanks for a great video! I am watching it to see if I can figure out why my 629 mountain gun started to sometimes malfunction in single action mode when I press the trigger very gently it will release the hammer but at the end of the hammer fall it will stop before the firing pin nose contacts the primer and the trigger will put returning pressure on my trigger finger!? I have several S&W revolvers and have been shooting these types of revolvers literally 50 plus years(S&W N frames) and never experienced this.I would appreciate any insight you might have.Thank you.P.S ,yes the strain screw is snug on the hammer spring.
I have a revolver that does something similar, but the firing pin never fails to contact the primer. Here’s what is probably happening. When you are “gently” pushing the trigger, you have very little pressure on the trigger, at the point the trigger releases, the rebound slide spring is pushing the rebound slide forward. This is an internal safety feature that prevents a cocked revolver from firing unless the trigger is pulled/held all the way to the rear of its stroke. You could have a gunsmith check your spring and make sure it’s within specifications, or you could put a little more rearward pressure on the trigger to insure you get good ignition.
@@hrfunk thank you very much! I will follow your suggestion
Also this anomaly never occurs double action,only in single action shooting
You’re welcome!
Been there, done that. It will be interesting to see if you use the spring tool or a small screwdriver on the rebound spring. If you use the small screw driver what are the Vegas odds that you chase a spring across your garage?
Do you keep the old springs? How do you store and label them for potential future use?
I place them in a plastic bag and Mark it with the model and serial number that the springs came from.
Just looks great. I'd love to have one.
Did you track down the source of the audio issue?
I think so, now I just have to figure out how to solve it.
Great video HR do you need to lightly lube anything in the install of the new springs ?
Not really. A light drop or two on the action parts won't hurt, though.
@hrfunk
Another great video HR. Loving your channel, been a sub for a while, and happy to see you getting the audience you deserve.
I tried the same spring swap in my new model 66-8 and got pretty radical results. My DA pull dropped from just shy of 12 pounds to 7 pounds. As this is a defensive revolver I felt that was too light and also made me concerned about light primer strikes. I put the factory springs back in. Did I do something wrong? The Type 1 spring is supposedly factory weight but there’s no way. Thanks!
I wonder if they accidentally sent you the lighter spring. I would have been a little uneasy with a defensive revolver running that light too.
@@hrfunk It’s possible. It was marked correctly but maybe it was mispacked. I may try the Wilson Combat spring kit and see what results I get with that. Thanks for the reply and keep up the great work.
You did that like a surgeon.
Just call me Dr. Bang Bang.
Nice
Nicely done video. Does this apply to a 66-8?
Which part?
@@hrfunk Being a model with a hammer lock, hammer come off the same way?
Yes.
The Model 66 is one of the very best.
I'm a big fan of the Combat Magnums in just about any configuration.
For some reason, on my smith and wesson, the trigger and hammer seem to be a completely different metal, or they at least both have a discolouration compared to the rest of the firearm.
Yours looks a lot more consistent with the type of metal.
Any thoughts?
Older revolvers, like the one in the video, had stainless steel triggers and hammers. In newer versions, they used the same color case hardened hammers/triggers as were installed in blued revolvers.
my revolver has wolf spring kit, however if i decide to re-install the factory main spring, can i leave the reduced power rebound trigger spring in ??
Yes, but you may end up with a situation where the internal safety associated with the rebound slide is impaired. You might also get sluggish trigger reset. I wouldn't go with the absolute lightest rebound slide spring.
He has good video s
Thanks Chris!
Is the gun reliable with all ammo types with the wolff spring kit ?
I used the factory power springs and I haven’t had a problem yet.
@hrfunk I thought you used the 15 pound rebound spring that came with the wolff kit. So you used the factory 16 pound with the wolff main spring ?
What if you only changed the main spring?
The rebound spring has more to do with the DA pull than the mainspring.
What is the spring kit number, if someone wanted to buy one.
I'm surprised you didn't replace the screws. I'm sure your like me and buggered screws get on my nerves lol. Well all you need is a couple speed loaders and carry it off and on as your duty carry.
I may replace the screws someday. Fortunately, I already have the speedloaders!
@@hrfunk there you go.
Hard to beat the look feel and smell of a 66 or 686 in a lether rig.
Ahh, the smell of fine leather! The synthetic fans will never understand that.
@@hrfunk you right.
Like back in the day you walked into station you knew where you were at by the smell. Even the units with cloth seats smelled like it..
@@hrfunk that’s the truth , leather should be the only holster allowed for a revolver !
Nice video comment for algorithm. Tired another person quit so on 12 hour shift starting today and I'm kind of pissed at what I say on TH-cam a news about a relative shooting a 6 year old over spilled water. Guns are to protect ourselves not to kill children.
I wholeheartedly agree John.
No lube?
Very, very, little.
What a bot the magnum
I’m not sure what you are asking.