The Gods and Demons Hidden in TWEWY's Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Agent Random ran out of TWEWY lore so he started making up his own.
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Composers are definitely Angel-tier, meaning there is a massive, vast power gap between the weakest Angel and the strongest Reapers, but they're Angels that primarily reside in the UG, so they're never seen with wings or other Angels, hence the confusion. Composers could essentially be thought of as "Angels-in-training", so Angel-class in power, capability, Imagination, Vibe, basically everything but name due to them presiding over the UG and not residing in the Higher Plane. They are the absolute highest beings in the UG, and a goalpost for all beings to stride towards.
Executors have little to no information attached to them, but from what we've seen, Composers can have authority over Executors. Maybe in the Angel hierarchy, Executors typically reside in the HP until summoned by a Composer to do their job, but tuning their vibe to the UG and low enough to not draw suspicion from their Reaper "colleagues" makes them particularly vulnerable to other Angels, just like the Reapers themselves. Not that other Angels would be pushed to do something to them, but as in the case of Kubo, if an Angel were so inclined to "cross a line" with their free will granted in the UG (such as causing an Inversion in a city they were specifically not assigned to), they can be removed/punished just as a Composer would do to a Reaper (such as the case of Taboo Sho getting erased by Joshua), except that in this circumstance special rules apply (because they are explicitly not Reapers), so instead of the Angel being erased like a Reaper normally would, they are *exorcised,* because Angels play by different rules than UG denizens and Hazuki knew this.
So Composers are Angels that stay in the UG to influence it's development, while Executors are Angels that disguise themselves as Reapers in order to execute their mission, which makes them "managed" by the Composer that summoned them. Their vibes are low enough that no one would suspect that they are Angels, which also makes it convenient for a Composer to exorcise them if they fuck up their job in a way that would be damaging to the UG.
It's a good thing nobody knows Mr. Mew is the real god of TWEWY
You know, the worst part is that this isn’t impossible
Wait what
I wanna mention that ryoji is a spoon bender by virtue of how he is actually able to psychically influence the World around him, albeit unconsciously.
The pigs that he sells in week one are cursed and produce the bogus pig noise. And later the flowers he is forced to sell gain supernatural properties and one actually curses The Prince, possessing him with noise.
Not to mention the fact that all the pins he designed himself are UBER-TIERED. And to make a psych pin takes imagination and soul. So he’s actually got a lot of psychic potential but is completely oblivious to it.
The reapers, Susukichi especially, like to watch and mess with him because of the fact he’s probably got a kind of latent ability that makes things interesting
Great point, he definitely has some latent ability since his social network says he senses Rindo and the gang are slightly different when they come to his shop. He also notices the slump Shibuya goes through in week 3.
The ESP'r/Psychic ranks are one of the most fascinating parts of the lore to me, so it's super cool to see a video on them! My personal headcanon is that they're structured based on threat-level to the Higher Plane itself, specifically because of exorcism as a concept and Fallen Angel swapping ranks between games.
Exorcism is SUPER OP and will almost definitely get nerfed if we get a TW3WY, but as it currently stands, it falls into the same "problem" as NEO Josh: if Angels have this kind of power, why wouldn't they use it more often? It might be that it has a physical or spiritual toll, but as far as I know, Haz doesn't appear any worse for wear after using it. So it's more likely that there's a part of the Angel Code that restricts its use, since it can have such a massive effect across planes.
Which would explain why Fallen Angel is now suddenly higher than Angel: if rules are the only thing holding someone back, they're FAR more dangerous if they're willing to break them.
With Mr. H as the only example of a Fallen Angel so far, since he hasn't been booted from the hierarchy, it's likely that the title means "possible threat." After all, while he did break the Code in the original game, he only broke the rules he needed to and never showed interest in attacking the Higher Plane itself. Following that logic, a Demon might not be a separate species really, but anyone on the same power-level as Angels but with absolutely NO limits. Someone like, say, a certain Math Man.
Anyways, I know that's all super speculative, but I do really hope that this kinda thing gets focus in a later installment. Heck, the fact that they went out of their way to have us never fight Angels in NEO due to power difference might mean that we could even have a protag who BECOMES a Demon. (Or that whole decision was just because of story changes, but shh, let me have my fun.)
tl;dr I think the rankings are based on ability to attack and dethrone God and I DESPERATELY hope we get the chance to
I sure wasn't expecting a lesson in zelda lore in this video
The power is yet unknown.
I believe the reason why Composers are ranked lower than Angel rank is simply because Composers have to mingle with the lower planes, meaning their vibe has to constantly be tuned down in order to keep a proper eye on their city. Basically, they're the strongest Angels around, and is why they are chosen to compose cities, and have authority over other angels such as Kubo and Hanekoma.
"Kubo got server banned" was not a line I expected to hear today.
Also, I came up with a possible reason for why Angel and Fallen Angel got swapped.
It's that there is no actual difference between Angel and Fallen Angel, and it's just the bias of whoever is ranking them. For example, in the eyes of God and the other Angels, Fallen Angels would be seen as lesser due to not being strong enough to walk the straight and narrow, and losing the Light. On the other hand, someone could see Fallen Angels as being stronger due to being brave enough to rebel against their brethren and skilled enough to pull it off.
Even before neo released I thought Joshua was an angel. While obviously he had blatant angel imagery on top of that all his abilities seemed to lean towards what was described about angels more than composer.
Composers are essentially the last step in the reaper totem pole to attain angel status. It's theoretically supposed to loose to a strong enough reaper eventually. Yet minamimoto a man who used forbidden angel knowledge to boost his strength to what's supposed to be composer tier got seemingly no diffed by a nerfed one. On top of that the conductor who should be the next closest to the composer in strength is literally so much weaker than Joshua that he can't even view his actual form. These seem like way to huge of gaps for someone who's supposed to be the beatable goal post.
Hell players are supposed to be brought to angel status after winning and even a God tier prodigy like Neku is astronomically weaker than this position as even when syncing with beat (something that apparently makes characters significantly stronger than just a sum of their parts as beat thinks it might let them stand a chance against the bird noise) could barely contend with minamimoto. Who as previously stated got destroyed by a nerfed composer.
So my theory is he is basically he's just an angel who's sat on the composer throne just because he felt like it. Maybe he didn't want to join angel society so he's been stuck in that position for a long time leading to his bleak view. Idk Joshua back story is anyone's guess with how much he lies but the important point is I think he's just a special one holding on to the spot and they aren't normally meant to be that strong. His powers are way outside of what a composer is described to do in the secret reports.
This would mean their isn't any actual retcons. As hanekoma in the og secret reports pretty much exclusively refers to composers in general and not Joshua specifically when lore dumping.
Now haz is a weird part of this theory as he also falls into this Joshua category and its weird that both of them are like this. This could simply e be a coincidence though or even a wider overarching plot to do with angel society filling the positions for some reason. Theirs multiple story routes so I don't think it's contradictory.
if i had to guess what Demons are, its anything that Angels would consider a threat to the world order. its what Kubo was deemed after his purpose was up and he was now just a rouge element, also what Sho slowly seems to be becoming.
17:02 funny you say that as the original Zelda trilogy (OG, Adventures of Link and Link to the Past) were indeed inspired by Christian mythos similar to other medieval series like Lord of the Rings and Narnia. This is why there are some aspects like Link’s shield having a cross painted on it and the presence of churches are there (even one concept art show Link praying in a traditional Nave, complete with a crucifix of Jesus). Of course the references were toned down when localizing the series since back then, the censorship towards religion in video games was Uber strict and future games have swapped real life religious elements in favor of its own mythos but still. The Triforce itself COULD be a reference to The Holy Trinity (The Father, Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit) but I know in the original game, it was split in several pieces so I’m not sure if that was intentional or not.
Tetsuya Nomura appears in the game. I think he's a God. His art is the world.
I think something minor you may have missed is that ranks and positions aren't always determining raw power Kariya being a prime example and of course Josh when he was in the RG or being a Player Josh was even a bit disappointed that Neku didn't want to become composer at the end of Neo implying he had the raw psychic power to at least challenge him and most higher plane beings tend to lose some of their power when dropping to lower planes but notably not all I assume the ranks more are meant to denote a level of mastery over a certain plane more than just simply raw power a fresh composer is likely way weaker than an Angel born and raised in a higher plane after all
Holy shit use full stops my guy
i think trying to interpret the power levels of different beings in twewy as a strictly linear scale is an exercise in futility. different types of beings have different powers, and while some are absolutely more powerful than others (for example, there's no debate that the composer is more powerful than a reaper, or that a reaper is more powerful than a normal living human), in the places where it's not obvious who is more powerful, the answer is probably that it depends. for example, reapers are more powerful than players in general, but there are clearly players who are able to defeat reapers in combat, even without outnumbering them.
in the composers vs. angels question, i think that composer isn't actually a power rank so much as it is a specific job title, and angels of varying strength can take on that job. for example, joshua seems, at least to me, to most likely have originally been a human, who fought his way up and took the place of the previous composer, and became an angel when he did, whereas haz seems to have originated on a higher plane as an angel and then having stepped down from the higher plane to become a composer. it would make sense for them to have differing power levels, and from that i don't think it's too far of a stretch to assume that there are also angels who are less powerful than either of them, and kubo is one of those... of course, i personally headcanon that kubo is in fact more powerful than joshua and that's the real reason he didn't do much, but i'm well aware canon doesn't rly support that. either way, maybe the position of the composer in that psychic ranking isn't representative of the _average_ composer, but instead of the _minimum requirements_ to be one? also worth noting is that in the original game's secret reports, composers weren't even referred to as angels, and instead as being the highest rank achieavable without being an angel. it's still entirely possible in my mind that composers _aren't_ always angels, and that the two composers we've seen are in fact statistical outliers.
another hc i have regarding composers, which might play into all this a little as well, is that they have a sort of home-field advantage. this is my explanation as to why hanekoma had to work so hard to try to dethrone joshua in the first game, and ultimately failed, despite his psych rank being one that _should_ overpower the composer easily - on a level playing field, he would've been stronger, but a composer in his home is a lot stronger than they would be anywhere else. this also explains how joshua was able to easily leave the world to go to a parallel one, but needed hanekoma's help to get back home.
these r mostly just speculations and headcanoning though, i have nowhere near as comprehensive a knowledge of twewy lore as some of the other ppl in the comments. still, thought i would share how i see it!
Decided to check my ESP'r rank on my old save file. I had 5950 points so I was An Angel I didn't even realize this was a thing
Edit: So I found out how to increase the points in TWEWY. Just fight a bunch of frogs and buy a lot of 10k pins. So I'll be God in a bit guys lol
Maybe the Psychic rank is more about talent than power? Like, Kubo's imagination is stronger so he can make more creative use of his psychic abilities. (thus the PsyR being higher than Josh) Whereas Composers are just overall stronger but less talented. In a way, it might even be possible that Neku's Psychic rank (by Neo) is actually higher than most officer reapers since he starts off already being able to use all brands & his potential is endless. I do like how the game frames Neku as talent that was obstructed by his attitude & Rindo as potential obstructed by his fear.
Oh and as for Sho, he's a reaper yeah but maybe he also has a higher psychic rank? That makes him confident on taking on a Composer. Like how when you fight, how technique can overcome size or strength. It might also be the reason why Neku & him seem to be on par with eachother, being they are both high in their imaginations. This revived Sho created & harnessed Taboo noise. If we see Taboo Noise as a mutation and he saw the Plague noise as a mutation also, I figure a few calculations here and that would allow him to handle them by adjusting his psychic powers. He is an actual genius after all.
I know Neo had that ghost of the little girl who was stuck between erasure and moving on as a high difficulty dungeon fight, I wonder how she'd rank?
The video raises some great points and I really enjoyed it, but there is one aspect about the world of TWEWY that wasn't mentioned, that would be interesting to be discussed on its own: the existence of parallel worlds/universes, and what is the hierarchies and communication between them.
Taking into account that both games' Another Day segments are canon to the main story, in the first game Hanekoma was afraid to be seen even by his other self, so he wouldn't be reported on sight. That raises a lot of questions like: report to who? His own Higher Plane or the fallen angel's one? Are they actually a single one that commands all dimensions? If not, then how would one know the other was a fallen angel to begin with? All that would be an interesting matter to discuss.
Also in NEO the very crazy detail in the reports that, after it was all over, Joshua modified the world around Neku using memories from a world where he never went to Shinjuku, so he could live like he never left, and this procedure is used for Reapers that return to the RG, so Shoka as well. There are a lot of other implications from that as well but I digress.
Either way, again, great video :)
Don’t be pooping on my favorite character, Ari’s Friend.
13:39 it's not even headcanon at this point XD. Since Reapers have a high enough Imagination Level/creativity to be musicians and influence people through music and art (like mr. H) then it's pretty safe to assume that A LOT of music and art in TWEWY is made by Angels, Reapers, or even Demons
Huh. You know what i had just been assuming was the watsonian explanation for the 3years = 14years time skip?
In twewy, someone somewhere just... made smartphones early. And perhaps through supernatural intervention their development went nuts quicker too. Say for instance an inventor died, went through a game that refined their imagination like crazy, and then took off when they returned to the RG.
Then, if thats too unbelievable, maybe the same kind of thing that Joshua did to let Neku return to the RG relatively seamlessly was a part of it too. Some time between twewy and neo, a composer (or higher?) sampled from a parallel world where smartphones were a thing and changed their world according to it, causing the discrepancy we see. That would explain why hanekoma is out of the loop/unaffected. Of course, if doing that is inherently contingent on returning someone to the RG, and smart phones would only normally have existed with a 14year time span then... that means that somewhere, someone got revived after a ~14 year delay?? Makes the circumstances of the story look like chump change... but sure, i guess that kind of random but theoretically possible explanation works with such a jarring but ultimately disregard-able setting change.
Though when you think about how much we don't know about the world of twewy, but that what we DO know is people's memories and the lower planes are alterable en masse, this discrepancy is sort of easy to handwave as long as it's not front and center. Was it an uber-talented revived player? Was it the Effect of reviving a player in itself? Is there an angel out there like Hanekoma only their hobby is communications development? Was it a god capable of rewriting the world on a whim?? Does someone grant wishes??? In the Void of stories untold these are... well maybe not all EQUALLY likely, but close enough that they can just be summed up as "some mandela effect bullshit." Anything would be an ass pull since we know the real world reasons have nothing to do with solid storytelling continuity. XD
Perhaps the only thing i really want to know is... canonically WHAT YEARS are these games taking place. Like- just- what do they CALL them. I can accept there might be reasons why details in their world might be anachronistic to ours but if i could know what year is written on their homework assignments or the year-long planners they'll buy only to abandon 4 months in, it would be a nice if arbitrary point of reference. Gonna have to write "20XX" on all these dead people's grave stones.
(I uh, didn't expect to write up so much on just one theory/point in the video when i started, so i should note that im really glad this video exists now! And that i finally got a minute to watch it. It's so unclear whether these details are genuine lore or purely mechanical, but having them compiled into one video makes examining them much easier and more community friendly.)
The simple explanation is that technological advancements in that world came quicker than ours.It doesnt have to be supernaturaly explained
@@evansvisual no i think it absolutely would need a supernatural explanation FOR technological advancements to come quicker XD even if smart phones were literally on the market the moment twewy's story ended, its not natural for smart phone app development to be as ubiquitous as it is in neo.
11:57 Nah Kubo was straight up deleted from existence. he was disintegrated by Haz as punishment for his disobedience. That's why it a few seconds for Rindo to even remember who Kubo was
Composers are Angels but they're still powering down to an extent so they don't cause dissonance and freaking destroy the UG through their presence alone. So that's why Composer is at a rank lower than Angel, which is described as a "higher power" in NEO. SOmething so beyond the UG itself, it destroys it
You just dropped
a headcanon in that
Long Dream is composed
by some being of the Higher Plane
This is it. This is just perfect. Thank you for imprinting this theory. May, Hylia I guess? bless you.
I sorta interpret angel ranks as similar to reaper in that there are probably some power based ones along with some self made hierarchy type ones. like in terms of power a composer might be at or even above other angels, but their actual job requires them to be at a lower plane of existence. we know haz was always an angel too, which implies that angels who previously were just in the higher plane can be sent to fill in the role of composer if no one else is left to do it. this is mostly a headcanon but i could imagine it being something like a reaper and composer challenge ending in them both perishing and without a clear successor the higher planes just sent in one of their own. honestly on of the things i like about twewy is how it takes supernatural concepts and hierarchies and frames them almost like a workplace. even when you become a reaper, you can be stripped of your status at any time, and even when you're an angel, if you step out of line you're a fallen angel. the joys of the workplace.
also while i'd say that story is pretty convincing evidence for there being an ultimate higher power in the twewy universe, i'd say the evidence for demons existing isn't even flimsy--it's really non existent. rindo saying "like a demon..." in response to hearing abbout an exorcism isn't really indicative of anything but rindo having seen a movie or two about demons and knowing the tropes. This man doesn't know jack about the wider universe, especially not compared to haz. and again, even if demons don't actually exist in twewy the human concept of them still clearly does, accounting for the song as well. idk im gonna need more evidence than those two instances.
i sort of see reapers as the "devils" of the game too. although they're definitely more based on japanese legends, literally being called shinigami in the japanese version, their wings notably are more western demon. it would also fit with them being below the angels and hell being "below" heaven in a literal sense. most reapers are also portrayed as pretty cruel or at least antagonistic to players whereas most angels have a more ambiguous/force of nature vibe to them.
the as-yet aloof nature of the higher plane makes it hard to tell what they stand for. and it's hard to identify enemies of people whose role is unclear. It's likely safe to say we haven't seen any traces of demons in canon but the notion of angels, devils, and God would have to have come from Somewhere in-universe. The "meme" may have been imprinted at some point. Though if I had to guess I'd say "Demons" would be a similar position to the "Fallen Angels" since it's a label given to angels/gods that are in opposition to the established order
Thank you for making this videos! I love that there is a chanel about TWEWY! Please make more!
me on my way to shoot some kid with headphones (its a twewy reference)
Maybe Sho is god tier, but Josh is just Super-god tier. Of course, that flirts with if not falls into the saiyan trap, so let's leave that alone, shall we?
Woah, this video was awesome!! I never thought about the psychic ranks having that sort of significance, and I love how you were able to tie the story of those Gatito pins into that psych rank theory! Another great video as usual and helped fuel my need for lore, great work!
There actually is one other very obscure reference to demons, or, more accurately, devils: the whole White Angels vs Black Diablos (Devils) thing in OG TWEWY'S Another Day, there were two competing fan clubs for the Prince, with Uzuki being part of the Diablos.
Now more likely than not this is just a random joke, but it we wanna overanalyze, I see it two ways:
1. This refers to Reapers vs Angels, and how the two groups don't see eye to eye/understand each other despite technically working for the same goals.
2. Since the Diablos and the Angels are really about the same thing, then there's no real difference from an Angel or Demon except in name/perception.
I’m thinking “Composer” is just the name for the job. An Angel that tries their best and always does quality work will be given an important job, like Composer.
But just because someone has good work ethic and is good at their job doesn’t mean that they can’t get out-ranked or out-powered.
this is such a good video, I like how the lore of TWEWY is so deep and misterious, well I guess it's because is a Nomura master piece
"my name is agent random"
>his name is black Jupiter
Did not expect to get re-explained Zelda’s lore (big fan) but it was a nice surprise to see it. I could see the reference a mile away but was still shocked. Great job with the video!
Well… TWEWY has crossed over with Kingdom Hearts before so…
How strong is Sora?
I mean, if we factor in the Power of Waking and how it was used in Re:Mind I think you could make an argument that Sora was able to act at Composer level power for at least a few minutes. Nevermind how 2 gave him a transformation that enhanced his power in exchange for making him more animalistic, with Antiform.
While Antiform is not fully comparible to a Cantus form like the GMs are shown having, I do think it shows that Sora could probably go toe to toe with an officer reaper on the reg.
Especially if we take Marluxia's thematics at face value and assume that he was a Reaper rank entity with the second fight against him in CoM (the weird Nobody mech) being equivalent to a Mantis or Flora Cantus transformation with how it looks like he's fused into it. And you _could argue_ Marluxia was a Conductor during that time, depending on how seriously you want to take the card game shit.
Hear me out: The Uberpsychics/Gods are literally the devs as some kind of crazy bonkers meta joke, plus like. Most people who become game devs these days are almost all people who have played games first, aka, are PLAYERS. Eh, eh?
In my headcanon angels, fallen angels and demons have similar power level, they're just different categories of celestial beings. Like, I don't think Hanekoma became "stronger" just by breaking the angel code or whatever, and it's not like his appearance changed by becoming a fallen angel either, like his wings becoming black or something like that.
While it's not canon or anything, if we're to take a look at Judeo-Christian teaching on fallen angels and apply it to TWEWY lore, demons could be fallen angels as they are in the Bible. I'm not sure how that would work in TWEWY, but perhaps they are more powerful fallen angels or fallen angels that have strayed so far from the path that they deserve a higher designation.
Oh my god i forgot you met aliens in mingle mode holy shit its been so long
I ain't even know about the eden lore before this!
Is that ending theme "Breaking Free" but like, unplugged? i've never heard that version in-game so thats interesting :o
The song is the acoustic version of Breaking Free! The song doesn't appear in the game itself but was released on Ishimoto's TH-cam a couple months ago:
th-cam.com/video/XTg0wHb1mSI/w-d-xo.html
Justice for Eri’s friend😔
8:15 So Sho got telefragged is what you're saying.
The Secret Reports in NEO mention his imagination is on par with an Angel due to Coco modifying Mr. H's refinery Sigil. Which is why he can now ascend to other realties, just like Joshua and Mr. H
Have you seen the approaching infinity essay on minamimoto
what is that?
What’s that breaking free version playing at the end? It sounds a bit different.
The Acoustic version. You can find it on Takeharu Ishimoto’s channel
@@redstreak9430 Thanks!
12:29 all we really know is, since every ability carries over into the higher ranks, (like how every Reaper Ability carries over into Angel) that Demon Rank would be able to do everything an Angel can and take it even further. Like how Angels can also do Imprintng and the Conductor's Imprinting is Mind Control. So it's safe to assume that then a Demon would have access to every ability from Reaper to Angel, making them an insanely powerful threat
The Triforce is Uber psychic 😂 omg
I watched this video for Scaling Minamimoto
Or it is still taking place in the another day dimension
Man, I hope I will live long enough to understand this lore.
OH MY GOSH. THAT BRIEF INTERACTION WITH MR. H AND SHRIMP. I THOUGHT I HAD A FEVER DREAM BC I COULDN’T RECREATE THAT INTERACTION AFTER ACCIDENTALLY TRIGGERING IT MY FIRST TIME. WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT!?? WHAT VIDEO CAN I WATCH TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THAT? WHAT IS THR SIGNIFICANCE? WHAT DOES IT MEAN!!!?
It's one of the hidden events that you need to do to unlock the secret reports! Week 2, day 4, I think (?).
8:31 AND not to mention Neku said he didn't really just head down a road to do that. Coco came back to get Neku. So it was COCO that brought Neku back. Neku himself can't travel between planes of existence
I find this shocking because the other popular IP of Square Enix next to Kingdom Hearts(which spun off from)Final Fantasy, had a f*ckton of characters, bosses, summons, and enemies based off of angels, demons, monsters, and gods. It's quite interesting to be fair, Kingdom Hearts did the same but with the Heartless, Nobodies, Unversed, Dream Eaters(whom were based on the tapir yokai that devours dreams in Japanese folklore), in addition to the original characters, especially the Disney and FF cameos. Proves that TWEWY is not only it's own franchise, but also in relation to Final Fantasy.
YOOOO
I was the clinically insane one that maxed out my ESP points and save file on the original game.
Composers were stated to not be angels in the reports of the first game, but they apparently retconned it for neo, so I guess that's why composer is below angel,,,,
It's actually really easy to max out esper rank in the twewy ive done it in under a month lol
Buy a bunch of 10000 or higher priced pins and battle alot
Somebody remembers when Kitaniji stopped time in his boss fight?
Kubo by the end of the game Neo twewy Becomes A Demon because he Nearly Erased Shibuya and Hazuki even said I Exorcised him, with Rindo Responding in shock and awe EXORCISED, Like A Demon?!
18:52 When i Played neo twewy and learn from bet in game dialogue that this game takes place 3 years later in the game. i was like shocked that MAYBE IRL THE GAME HAPPENED WHEN I WAS 8 - 11 Years old!!! That's the Kanon thing i see.