Christine you are BAD ASS. You sound so well read and fair and inquisitive. My favorite quote, “when you know better, you do better.”-hope you can forgive yourself for any regrets you have in parenting your children. As the child of a narcissist, as long as you can admit you were not perfect, without the undertone of wanting sympathy, that is really what matters (at least to me). All the best and happiness to you and your family!
Thanks so much for talking about this! I’m a survivor of a controlled group and I’m always revisiting my experience and healing from it. It sure takes courage and clarity to talk about those experiences!
It’s one thing to get drawn into a cult as an adult, but i honestly can’t imagine growing up in one. It’s so impressive how this woman has been able to overcome that (though i also appreciate her mentioning that she’s lucky in how sucessful she’s been in life after escaping 😕)
River and Joaquin Pheonix and Rose McGowan were also in Children of God. River stated he was sexually abused there as well. I've seen crazy documentaries about this particular cult. The way they ratcheted up from innocence to prostitution is fascinating and heartbreaking. Thank you for talking about this, Christina.
This woman is a badass, seriously. And as a child of a parent with severe childhood trauma, I want to say I know I have always loved my parent regardless of the situation or byproduct habit they've developed as a response (ex: strong emphasis on material goods/gift giving to show care when absent, etc.). So I imagine it's similar for Babin's own children based on the relationship they seem to have, so what a wonderful point to include in this interview because that is important for the moving forward process. Thank you to Christina Babin for her voice and Psychology in Seattle for providing another platform for these voices.
Thank you for uploading this here and not on Patreon because now I can listen to it. I wish I could become a patron and listen to all your content there but I live in Syria and the site doesn't work here because of the international sanctions on us.. 😑😪
My mom was in a cult in the late 50s where they put the babies in the baby room and the toddlers in the toddler room and rotated the older kids around among different households to prevent them from being attached to their own parents and to prevent them from forming other attachments--and for the same reason too. If you develop attachments, you aren't loving everyone equally. And they could transfer you to a different location if they got tired of you, although they were all within the US. It's horrific. My mom and her siblings all have deep trauma from this and they were in it for less than two years. From my understanding there wasn't systematic sexual abuse, but there was definitely a culture of sexual repression, which led to hiding any abuse that did happen. One impact of it is that you are supposed to be an innocent child who doesn't know anything. If you have knowledge and awareness of anything sexual, it's because YOU'RE bad. So you didn't even have the language to tell anybody what happened, and if you did, you were in trouble for even knowing what it was.
I need to make a correction, not all communes had walls around them. The ones I lived in in Asia had walls but I have spoken to other survivors who say they lived without walls.
literally write down everything you do think hear and see every day and look at it each night and after a few months you see that is how to see and cure patterns. be your own scientist your own guru your own healer etc. you CAN
This episode made me realize that "loaning" my mother my paycheck from my after-school job was abuse... I couldn't say no, and I knew because she said so that it was for rent and food. I knew she would not pay me back. I just worked week to week hoping I could keep some for myself and thought that was normal for a while.
I did not experience a cult, but I did spend 14 years in a high control religion which had cult-like aspects. I just want to say Christina I am so proud of you and you are an inspiration!!!
Christina you are so awesome and intelligent and articulate (and badass!) and I learned so much from you in this video (that felt so short even though it's almost 2hs!) I loved this episode and thank you Dr. Honda for hosting this.
Really enjoyed the podcast - just wanted to put my 2 cents in though in regards to that little bit at the very end where you two talked about the Americas pre colonization - just, I have a degree in Latin American Studies and History, and just wanted to mention that I'm not sure where your references are coming from, but pre colonization, there was technology, there were clothes, there were citystates, there were wars - albeit without guns, but there were a lot of really effective weapons. The climate was warmer than Europe, so there were less clothes, which is generally the case in areas that are hotter around the globe. There was a large population with their own writing systems and books and rulers and religion, and systems of battles between groups. There were even large citystates at some point in north America, though by the time the colonizers arrived there, it was mostly tribal (climate changes and migrations influenced this). The Aztecs actually migrated south into Mexico from north America - they were more violent than the mayans, who's large and vibrant civilization had waned by the time they arrived, and then about 80 years later, if I'm remembering right, the colonizers arrived. There were also large civilizations in the Andean mountains, and in the Amazon, and probably elsewhere, though those are the ones I know most about. It's estimated that about 90 percent of the population across the Americas was wiped out as the colonizers brought their germs into the continent. I think it does these ancestors a disservice to think of them in the 'noble savage' way. They weren't. They were civilized, they had their own culture, and art, and writing, and in the Mayan region they even had books (which were all burned by the colonizers except for about 7 books, which is just heartbreaking). They had math. They had transactional accounting systems. They had architecture. They had a variety of religions, some of them pretty laid back, some of them pretty aggressive - just like us. They had farming. They had artisans of many kinds. There's so much about them that we shouldn't forget, and it's really frustrating to hear that there are people writing books about them making them out to be 'noble savages'. People are more complicated than that. Seriously, this isn't on you - I just didn't know there were books like this being written and it got me kind of upset. Sorry! Anyway, like I said, really enjoyed the podcast!! It gave me some info about my own experiences that I just hadn't thought about before, which I think is exactly what I want from listening to one of your podcasts. :) Thanks to both of you for that! And sorry for rambling a bit...
Oh, I was talking about ancient Greeks and Polynesian civilisations that lived very long ago. They had a very sex positive attitude and respect for the human body. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Sexuality was also central to life in ancient Mesopotamia which is modern-day Iraq, Kuwait, and parts of Syria, Iran and Turkey. They had a lot of body positivity and celebrated the naked human form. I was not saying they were ignorant or incapable of violence by any means, from what I gather there was less shame about the human body and sexual activities. That was the point I was getting at.
Christina, you are amazing and so brave to speak out. I relate as a narcissistic family scapegoat survivor. Dr Kirk & Christina Have you spoken to Dr Steve Hassan about his BITE cult model? He is on TH-cam at Freedom of Mind & Influence Continuum
This was a great episode, however I think I'm hearing quite a disconnect near the end when it seems like you are revering ancient societies as "peaceful" and "idyllic", "no crime", "sexually free" (I'm inserting that phrase myself because I think that's what you are trying to say)......um could all of these things not also be said of the [damaging] cult this whole episode was about? Was it not also seemingly peaceful and idyllic? Crime free? Humans are flawed. All of us. Can we stop pretending ancient humans were somehow morally superior?
Dr Honda, not only toting the party line, but if you're independent... Both distrust you and accuse you of being a "fence sitter". Regardless of the extreme social pressure, I will be objective and independent.
Right? That's the whole Jesus story and apparently Solomon thought it plausible, not to mention all the times god killed people and babies when he got pissed off..
I always got weird vibes from Teal Swan, namely her lack of facial expression & seemingly lack of tonality when she speaks, it’s a very “flat” front… I don’t know much about Teal swan but I did watch a few of her videos back when I was learning more about dysfunctional relationships but I just couldn’t keep following her because something felt so off; to clarify, I was deep diving into learning about narcissism specifically, but what saved me was something Richard Grannon said which was to not get stuck in the rabbit hole of learning about abuse/narcissism because then at a point you will believe everyone is an abuser & you’ll become hyper aware of your relationships rather than being actually participating in them which can cut you off emotionally or lose trust in relationships (paraphrasing what he said). So it’s interesting that Teal Swan is now a topic of interest when it comes to cults, I feel lucky I didn’t get sucked in & frankly it gives me relief that I didn’t fall for a cult leader who isn’t very personable either 😮💨
This is one i only learned about 2 years ago and part of me wishes i could forget it ever happened. Then i learned it was the cult behind the Phoenix brothers, Rose McGowan, and the horrific stuff that happened to Ricky.... ugg. Hope Byrd rots in the tenth circle of hell.
My friends got a piece of land that slowly they r trying to be self sufficient and they just want their friends to have tiny house there too lol I think living in a commune would be nice and would be so much better mentally but not a cult just small one with friends
I left a comment on your video "Minuchin and Structural Family Therapy" but then realized it's a few years old and less likely to be seen. I'm re-posting it here in hopes that the message reaches you: I'm disappointed to find yet another paywall blocking the actual content suggested by its title. I actually looked through you videos with longer content, having realized the ones that are only 3-5 minutes are clickbait, but this one lured me in because it's longer. But you got my view after all and I got an overview of a therapist's life in Argentina and his noteworthy sensitivity to the economically disadvantaged. I found no clues to alleviating the extreme anxiety of my 21-year-old, now refusing to use a phone, leave the house or sometimes even talk. For many of us on YT without insurance or the ability to pay for therapy, Patreon is just another barrier to self help that only money unlocks. I realize you're not likely to open your content based on this comment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one person searching through your channel for help has life-altering consequences at stake.
That is a LOT of heavy responsibility to put on someone else. If you're disappointed that some episodes are clickbait then sure you can criticize it but saying it has life-altering consequences is just unfair.
Get over yourself. Dr. Honda shares so much amazing content FOR FREE. So he puts some episodes behind paywalls? You are incredibly immature and selfish to lecture him for trying to make a living. If accessing an episode truly has life-altering consequences for you, surely it's worth coughing up a couple dollars. Check your entitlement issues.
There are other therapists on TH-cam who talk about anxiety and how to cope with it (like Therapy In a Nutshell), if you can't use any info from Dr. Honda's free videos on anxiety. You need to seek it out yourself, because you are ultimately responsible for yourself and your son. Right now, you are taking away your own agency and making a man you have never met responsible for your son's wellbeing. That's not being fair to you, your son and it's especially not fair to Dr Honda.
Can you find a social worker or another way to help your child? I don't think it's fair to put that on one person trying to make a living by providing content. There are usually programs for the under priveledged which might not be ideal but better than doing nothing. Also self education only goes so far. Sounds like you need to get help with a professional through the proper channels.
Christine you are BAD ASS. You sound so well read and fair and inquisitive.
My favorite quote, “when you know better, you do better.”-hope you can forgive yourself for any regrets you have in parenting your children. As the child of a narcissist, as long as you can admit you were not perfect, without the undertone of wanting sympathy, that is really what matters (at least to me).
All the best and happiness to you and your family!
Thank you! That was well said!
Thanks so much for talking about this! I’m a survivor of a controlled group and I’m always revisiting my experience and healing from it. It sure takes courage and clarity to talk about those experiences!
It’s one thing to get drawn into a cult as an adult, but i honestly can’t imagine growing up in one. It’s so impressive how this woman has been able to overcome that (though i also appreciate her mentioning that she’s lucky in how sucessful she’s been in life after escaping 😕)
It’s so clear that she has done a tremendous amount of inner work around this. Such resilience.
AGREE!!! Possibly thanks to her speaking out and educating others!!
River and Joaquin Pheonix and Rose McGowan were also in Children of God. River stated he was sexually abused there as well. I've seen crazy documentaries about this particular cult. The way they ratcheted up from innocence to prostitution is fascinating and heartbreaking. Thank you for talking about this, Christina.
Yes, one of the Phoenix brothers was born in Puerto Rico while the parents were living in a commune there. I believe it was Joaquin.
Dr Honda's robotic sexy talk has to be one of the funniest things I have ever heard 🤣
This woman is a badass, seriously. And as a child of a parent with severe childhood trauma, I want to say I know I have always loved my parent regardless of the situation or byproduct habit they've developed as a response (ex: strong emphasis on material goods/gift giving to show care when absent, etc.). So I imagine it's similar for Babin's own children based on the relationship they seem to have, so what a wonderful point to include in this interview because that is important for the moving forward process. Thank you to Christina Babin for her voice and Psychology in Seattle for providing another platform for these voices.
Well said!
A few minutes in and I'm like, WOW. This is great, thanks Dr H and Christina for sharing.
Thank you for uploading this here and not on Patreon because now I can listen to it. I wish I could become a patron and listen to all your content there but I live in Syria and the site doesn't work here because of the international sanctions on us.. 😑😪
My mom was in a cult in the late 50s where they put the babies in the baby room and the toddlers in the toddler room and rotated the older kids around among different households to prevent them from being attached to their own parents and to prevent them from forming other attachments--and for the same reason too. If you develop attachments, you aren't loving everyone equally. And they could transfer you to a different location if they got tired of you, although they were all within the US. It's horrific. My mom and her siblings all have deep trauma from this and they were in it for less than two years. From my understanding there wasn't systematic sexual abuse, but there was definitely a culture of sexual repression, which led to hiding any abuse that did happen. One impact of it is that you are supposed to be an innocent child who doesn't know anything. If you have knowledge and awareness of anything sexual, it's because YOU'RE bad. So you didn't even have the language to tell anybody what happened, and if you did, you were in trouble for even knowing what it was.
This was an amazing episode. Thanks you for sharing your experience!
I need to make a correction, not all communes had walls around them. The ones I lived in in Asia had walls but I have spoken to other survivors who say they lived without walls.
Can you do a episode about generational trauma with an emphasis on the propensity to repeat patterns?
literally write down everything you do think hear and see every day and look at it each night and after a few months you see that is how to see and cure patterns. be your own scientist your own guru your own healer etc. you CAN
This episode made me realize that "loaning" my mother my paycheck from my after-school job was abuse... I couldn't say no, and I knew because she said so that it was for rent and food. I knew she would not pay me back. I just worked week to week hoping I could keep some for myself and thought that was normal for a while.
I did not experience a cult, but I did spend 14 years in a high control religion which had cult-like aspects. I just want to say Christina I am so proud of you and you are an inspiration!!!
Christina you are so awesome and intelligent and articulate (and badass!) and I learned so much from you in this video (that felt so short even though it's almost 2hs!) I loved this episode and thank you Dr. Honda for hosting this.
Really enjoyed the podcast - just wanted to put my 2 cents in though in regards to that little bit at the very end where you two talked about the Americas pre colonization - just, I have a degree in Latin American Studies and History, and just wanted to mention that I'm not sure where your references are coming from, but pre colonization, there was technology, there were clothes, there were citystates, there were wars - albeit without guns, but there were a lot of really effective weapons. The climate was warmer than Europe, so there were less clothes, which is generally the case in areas that are hotter around the globe. There was a large population with their own writing systems and books and rulers and religion, and systems of battles between groups. There were even large citystates at some point in north America, though by the time the colonizers arrived there, it was mostly tribal (climate changes and migrations influenced this). The Aztecs actually migrated south into Mexico from north America - they were more violent than the mayans, who's large and vibrant civilization had waned by the time they arrived, and then about 80 years later, if I'm remembering right, the colonizers arrived. There were also large civilizations in the Andean mountains, and in the Amazon, and probably elsewhere, though those are the ones I know most about. It's estimated that about 90 percent of the population across the Americas was wiped out as the colonizers brought their germs into the continent. I think it does these ancestors a disservice to think of them in the 'noble savage' way. They weren't. They were civilized, they had their own culture, and art, and writing, and in the Mayan region they even had books (which were all burned by the colonizers except for about 7 books, which is just heartbreaking). They had math. They had transactional accounting systems. They had architecture. They had a variety of religions, some of them pretty laid back, some of them pretty aggressive - just like us. They had farming. They had artisans of many kinds. There's so much about them that we shouldn't forget, and it's really frustrating to hear that there are people writing books about them making them out to be 'noble savages'. People are more complicated than that. Seriously, this isn't on you - I just didn't know there were books like this being written and it got me kind of upset. Sorry! Anyway, like I said, really enjoyed the podcast!! It gave me some info about my own experiences that I just hadn't thought about before, which I think is exactly what I want from listening to one of your podcasts. :) Thanks to both of you for that! And sorry for rambling a bit...
Oh, I was talking about ancient Greeks and Polynesian civilisations that lived very long ago. They had a very sex positive attitude and respect for the human body.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Sexuality was also central to life in ancient Mesopotamia which is modern-day Iraq, Kuwait, and parts of Syria, Iran and Turkey. They had a lot of body positivity and celebrated the naked human form.
I was not saying they were ignorant or incapable of violence by any means, from what I gather there was less shame about the human body and sexual activities. That was the point I was getting at.
Thank you Christine and Dr. Honda for this amazing episode.
Christina, you are amazing and so brave to speak out. I relate as a narcissistic family scapegoat survivor.
Dr Kirk & Christina Have you spoken to Dr Steve Hassan about his BITE cult model? He is on TH-cam at Freedom of Mind & Influence Continuum
Really a fantastic episode!
Cults are very popular right now but I'm here to point out that Dr. Honda was talking about them before Netflix etc. started paying attention to them
This was so interesting and inspiring
This was a great episode, however I think I'm hearing quite a disconnect near the end when it seems like you are revering ancient societies as "peaceful" and "idyllic", "no crime", "sexually free" (I'm inserting that phrase myself because I think that's what you are trying to say)......um could all of these things not also be said of the [damaging] cult this whole episode was about? Was it not also seemingly peaceful and idyllic? Crime free?
Humans are flawed. All of us. Can we stop pretending ancient humans were somehow morally superior?
One of my favorite guests
Dr Honda, not only toting the party line, but if you're independent... Both distrust you and accuse you of being a "fence sitter". Regardless of the extreme social pressure, I will be objective and independent.
The idealization of the pre-Columbian societies is wrong. Human sacrifice was very much a thing.
Now, of course, that doesn't make the genocide and slavery perpetrated by the English justifiable in any way.
Right? That's the whole Jesus story and apparently Solomon thought it plausible, not to mention all the times god killed people and babies when he got pissed off..
Pre-Columbian society encompasses a large number of groups, most of whom didn’t engage in human sacrifice.
I always got weird vibes from Teal Swan, namely her lack of facial expression & seemingly lack of tonality when she speaks, it’s a very “flat” front… I don’t know much about Teal swan but I did watch a few of her videos back when I was learning more about dysfunctional relationships but I just couldn’t keep following her because something felt so off; to clarify, I was deep diving into learning about narcissism specifically, but what saved me was something Richard Grannon said which was to not get stuck in the rabbit hole of learning about abuse/narcissism because then at a point you will believe everyone is an abuser & you’ll become hyper aware of your relationships rather than being actually participating in them which can cut you off emotionally or lose trust in relationships (paraphrasing what he said).
So it’s interesting that Teal Swan is now a topic of interest when it comes to cults, I feel lucky I didn’t get sucked in & frankly it gives me relief that I didn’t fall for a cult leader who isn’t very personable either 😮💨
Flat affect is so common with narcissists
10 min in and I'm curious how this Lady does with relationships in the present day.
I think that's often the hardest test for healing.
Also a 2 square child. And a dime's worth of shampoo and on the off chance we had paper towels I only got to reuse half of a rectangle
Haha, we now have a two sheet group! Lol!
I believe anyone who has grown up in a family unit that has a parent with narcissistic personality disorder. We are also cult survivors.
This is one i only learned about 2 years ago and part of me wishes i could forget it ever happened. Then i learned it was the cult behind the Phoenix brothers, Rose McGowan, and the horrific stuff that happened to Ricky.... ugg. Hope Byrd rots in the tenth circle of hell.
The chocolate story......
I'm sure this was just a coincidence, but the color scheme of the thumbnail looks a lot like the logo for Tinder.
My friends got a piece of land that slowly they r trying to be self sufficient and they just want their friends to have tiny house there too lol I think living in a commune would be nice and would be so much better mentally but not a cult just small one with friends
Oh cool
I left a comment on your video "Minuchin and Structural Family Therapy" but then realized it's a few years old and less likely to be seen. I'm re-posting it here in hopes that the message reaches you:
I'm disappointed to find yet another paywall blocking the actual content suggested by its title. I actually looked through you videos with longer content, having realized the ones that are only 3-5 minutes are clickbait, but this one lured me in because it's longer. But you got my view after all and I got an overview of a therapist's life in Argentina and his noteworthy sensitivity to the economically disadvantaged. I found no clues to alleviating the extreme anxiety of my 21-year-old, now refusing to use a phone, leave the house or sometimes even talk. For many of us on YT without insurance or the ability to pay for therapy, Patreon is just another barrier to self help that only money unlocks. I realize you're not likely to open your content based on this comment, but I wanted to let you know that at least one person searching through your channel for help has life-altering consequences at stake.
That is a LOT of heavy responsibility to put on someone else. If you're disappointed that some episodes are clickbait then sure you can criticize it but saying it has life-altering consequences is just unfair.
Get over yourself. Dr. Honda shares so much amazing content FOR FREE. So he puts some episodes behind paywalls? You are incredibly immature and selfish to lecture him for trying to make a living. If accessing an episode truly has life-altering consequences for you, surely it's worth coughing up a couple dollars. Check your entitlement issues.
There are other therapists on TH-cam who talk about anxiety and how to cope with it (like Therapy In a Nutshell), if you can't use any info from Dr. Honda's free videos on anxiety. You need to seek it out yourself, because you are ultimately responsible for yourself and your son. Right now, you are taking away your own agency and making a man you have never met responsible for your son's wellbeing. That's not being fair to you, your son and it's especially not fair to Dr Honda.
Can you find a social worker or another way to help your child? I don't think it's fair to put that on one person trying to make a living by providing content. There are usually programs for the under priveledged which might not be ideal but better than doing nothing. Also self education only goes so far. Sounds like you need to get help with a professional through the proper channels.