"I would demonstrate it for you guys but Manscaped said it was completely unnecessary. As a matter of fact, they stressed that point when they gave me feedback about this ad." -Allen (Alan?) You get what he's really saying, right?
Luthern explicitly stated that his actions mirror those of Palpatine (for that matter, so does Mon Monthma). Luthern, however, realizes...he stated explicitly...that his actions are condemnable, and that by his actions, he deserves the dark personal future that is surely ahead of him. That's the critical difference between him and Palpatine.
That whole speech gives me chills and marks him as the true tragic hero of the Star Wars saga. Without him, there was no rebellion, no victory against evil and yet he accepted that it was his fate to be forgotten or at best remembered as a monster.
@@OrionInSpace Mon Mothma is probably the only person who knew he existed by the time of Endor and she'd never speak of him, because she knew better than anyone that if the New Republic was going to survive, it needed to maintain a pristine, heroic image, one that that Luthen could never be a part of. She knew him, maybe she honoured him in her own way, but she could never let the Galaxy know of him and his sacrifices.
Wow the dialogue is so good. Saw says "For the greater good." And Luthen does not answer anything theatrical. He plainly states "call it what you will". This right there is genius. Thank you for your angle of view on this, it was educational and insightful as always. Best SW channel on youtube!
Trying to correct Saw on his declaration would have only set off Saw all over again, and the two would have been right back to holding one another at gunpoint a second time. Luthen telling Saw to call it what he liked was basically him saying: "I don't agree, but whatever makes you feel justified, you psycho." And honestly, what good would correcting Saw have actually done? It's a good response, but it's very pragmatic.
Grand Admiral Thrawn would immediately turn Luthen in to Palpatine, once he figured out what Luthen was fighting for (and he would figure it out, too! Thrawn was a super-intelligent SOB!!). So unless this is the actual way that Luthen is killed in this series, it's never going to happen.
There is no highroad to take when the enemy holds all roads at gunpoint. The only line he hasn't crossed is to deliberately kill innocent people and pin it on the Empire. He creates dangerous situations where innocents COULD die, sure. But he hasn't ACTIVELY killed innocents... yet. I'll be very interested to see what he does going forward. After all, I don't see how he makes it out of Andor alive, so this is all we will get from him.
So if the Rebellion needs to exterminate the populations of planets, that's fine. So long as the Rebels win. You're explaining what the Bolsheviks were, and why they became that way. You're apologizing for Stalin.
Most movies try to paint rebels good guys . Real life rebellion also targets civilians as well like if you are doing business or are an informant . It's a grey zone of warfare
@@DamienAlexander-Ducroix God, I hope he doesn't survive. Purely because I don't want him to have to witness what the New Republic became... "all that sacrifice and for what...?" kind of thing.
@@GenerationTech If I recall correctly this matter was depicted in the fashion of the Rule of Two in the novel "Lords of the Sith" where Sidious asks Vader whether he perceives any weakness in the former's action's. Vader answered negatively but their chemistry was very intriguing and the suspense was there all the time.
@@ikkimi7745 Given that the Rule of Two was supposed to encourage apprentices to always keep an eye out for weakness, I suspect Sidious was very disappointed in the answer.
The irony that the man just as ruthless for Palpatine is not a powerful Jedi, ruthless military leader or a nosy senator but a small museum shopkeeper/spymaster. No power influence or even a leader just a small man planting whispers like a phantom Or a MENACE!!!
What Rael forgets, or more likely doesn't know, is that the evil space wizard in charge of the empire was always going to do exactly the kind of intolerable evil Rael was hoping to goad Sidious into. The most tragic part of his character just might be that, whatever sacrifices and evil deeds he employed for the greater good, they were probably irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
I think thats partially true. Luthen is an agitator of sorts. Poking and prodding the Empire until they overreact. While the Empire does do terrible things, its roughly planned. The Ferrix Riots were not planned, and did not have involvement from Luthen.
He most definitely is aware, but by the time that happens, it would be too late. As he said, evil must be slow. He specifically poked and prodded the Empire to do it now because the Empire was simply not ready. If he had indeed waited, it would have been too late. The Empire's grip on the galaxy would have been too strong to resist effectively. He was well aware of it and says so in his meetings with Saw. He was afraid that's exactly what would happen.
@kirby7294 when I say likely not aware, I mean Rael is likely not aware that the galactic emperor is literally an evil space wizard drawing his power from a philosophy of subjugation and dark thoughts. Rael's entire plan is thus based on incomplete information. Sidioua was moving as fast as he possibly could to be ever more domineering, and turning to dark deeds to resist someone who actively uses your darkness as a power source, well... Luke walked into that conundrum, too, and only Anakin pulled him out.
He's definitely not a Jedi like some people have guessed. He's clearly a normal man as far as abilities, just one with a extreme dedication to the sole purpose of doing damage to the empire he hates. He fully devotes his entire existence to organizing and coordinating rebel groups and individuals, manipulating things to make the empire look as bad as it is, and quietly overseeing it collapse to the best of his ability, probably with the intent that getting rid of it will lead to a better life for the average person.
I would definitly read a novel about spycraft during the imperial era. Imagine an imperial security officer looking for the tracks of the ISB mole in the lower levels of Coruscant and discovering the networks are far more extended than they suspected. Plus the internal competition in ISB.
I'm convinced that Luthen is going to survive season 2, figure the rebellion doesn't need him once the fire's lit, and go into exile/hiding on Kashyyyk to end up becoming Art Carney's character from the Holiday Special. Reasonings: -Saun Dann ('sean dan') is the fakest name in star wars -Saun and Luthen look suspiciously similar -Saun claims to be a friend of the Rebellion, but avoids directly associating with them -Saun runs a curio shop It almost certainly won't happen, but I've been thinking about it since season 1 ended and I want it to so badly lol
9:20 in war there are always calculated risks, feints, and sacrifices. At the end of the day, loses will always occur. But do the deaths and sacrifices mean something? Do they further the objective? Are the loses worth the sacrifice? Those are the questions that haunt the generals and admirals.
Dude, this is the biggest Goose bumps video you made till now. Ive been watching your channel for like 5 years now, never commented till now. Just wanted to let you know that this video character-comparison was pretty great! Just one creative input... I would have been engaged even more if you let the whole Luthan-sacrifice Monologue play at @11:26. great work guys.
Nah. He'll be depicted as the person who personally trained the expert spy Winter, and a great many others. Enough to keep his story going. As an exceptional spymaster, he's got the talents to make countless "Culper Rings" on various worlds.
This would make sense - and surely over the history of the Rule Of Two, Maul and Tyrannus weren't the only apprentices to end up tossed aside and still alive while their master lived...the Sith kept themselves hidden from the Jedi for a thousand years...now just rinse and repeat with a second line of Sith in hiding from the Inner Core ones.
Having him be a secret Force-user in the end would really detract and take away from what Andor and Rogue One were thematically about - the struggle of the ordinary people against the Empire. It doesn't always have to be about the magical space wizards and their religious squabbles.
@@mitchellhayward6492 true, true...though if he's a space wizard who doesn't use his powers...or he can only sense the force but not use the force...(is that possible?)
@keenirr5332 Personally, I don't see the point. Andor is thematically focused, and very grounded. I don't see how Force-sensitivity in Luthen will contribute to either the plot or the point, or improve on a character I already find amazingly written and interesting. Luthen and Cassian being ordinary guys feels very refreshing to me, because if everyone in the Rebellion that isn't Luke Skywalker has no Jedi/Sith connection at all, and no special powers, it makes every victory feel more earned, and reminds us that the rebellion itself against the Empire is - and has always been - about people fighting against their oppressors. Let Luke Skywalker be the Rebel whose story is deeply rooted in the Force, while Andor focuses on - underexplored - ordinary people.
@ 15:30 you're completely correct.......however, like you hinted at earlier, it is often a spymasters job to use glory & adventure to entice other people to join their rebellion. The only thing in star wars that is better than Andor is your analysis of it!
Thanks. Now I had this going through my head for the last couple hours (with apologies to Star Rekt): Mon Mothma don't know Rael's gonna plot In his Antiques Shop Planning something unholy He set up shop on Coruscant But it's all a front Gonna hide his true story
Luthen Rael sacrificed his humanity for the greater good of all. Sheev Palpatine sacrificed humanity and all the other species for the "greater good" of himself.
Well, the hero’s didn’t make those choices opening or during the movies. I’m damn sure they did behind them (especially Leia and Mon Mothma as she was the leader later during the war). We have to remember the saying to never meet our hero’s as we probably won’t like what you see up close and personal. Edit: I agree he’s wasn’t a regular Jedi, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was Jedi Intelligence if he was a Jedi. He was definitely in intelligence work of some kind that’s for sure.
i like to imagine he was a jedi, but now has so much mental turmoil he doesn't even try to use the force cause he knows he'd only be able to access the darkside.
Having him be a secret Force-user in the end would really detract and take away from what Andor and Rogue One were thematically about - the struggle of the ordinary people against the Empire. It doesn't always have to be about the magical space wizards and their religious squabbles.
Luthen Rael is the embodiment of Nietzsche saying; "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster." Not looking into the mirror, completes his quote; "for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
It makes me think of Firefly, or more specifically the film Serenity. The Operative "I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."
Great analysis! Though I have to add that Mon Mothma also learned from Palpatine and is hiding in plain sight. While Luthen seems to coordinate the first cells and collects the threads, Mothma will most likely be the one to glue the Rebellion into an actual organization. Cannot wait for the conflict between the two masterminds to play out and how Mon Mothma will overstep the red line in holding the Emperor directly accountable for the Gorman Massacre.
Definitely one of my favorite characters as well. As a spymaster he's constantly manipulating everyone around him and it really weighs on him but he does it anyway " for the greater good".
Luthen Is one of my favorite parts of Andor. The Rebellion would have lived and died in the hands of spymasters like him until near the later part of it until they turned into a civil war, which didn't really happen until the last couple years. Small cells are easily isolated, cutoff, and dealt with. They can come together and do some larger missions together, but you are only going to offer an ongoing insurgency, at best, and with it limited to only some parts of the galaxy, the Empire would have eventually just scrubbed it all out until there were just periodic pockets that sprouted, were cut down, and died in cycles. For a successful movement, you need people like Luthen to set up support networks and communications, then start organizing the whole thing into an actual fighting force. You also need to poke the bear to stir up recruiting. I bet he would have been thrilled about the Death Start attack and it's quick destruction by a fresh faced recruit in an X-Wing. That poster made itself there and was the second big wave of recruits to the Rebellion.
I almost want to Concur. I see the parallel between Silco's dedication to the establishment of Zaun as a sovereign entity and Luthen's dedication to the rebellion. I also see the ruthless calculation in both characters. But there is a viciousness, narcissism and possibly even sadism to Silco that I don't see in Luthen. Silco demands respect, and, you can tell, truly enjoys wielding power over those he feels are beneath him. He likes having power. He accomplishes much of his agenda by being feared, flooding the streets with shimmer and in general by being the hnic. Luthen doesn't seem to seek power at all and accomplishes his ends primarily through manipulation, convincing argument and putting people between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't care to have his name ring out or if he is respected by any wider group. In fact, it would be detrimental to how he moves. Luthen just wants the Republic restored, or at least for the Empire to fall. He has no designs on governing any part of it. In fact, he doesn't believe he'll be around to witness his own ends achieved. But, Silco, doesn't just want Zaun to exist, he wants to run it once it does.
The moment Luthen said I use my enemies tools and become them with the black cloak and cane made me realize how much Palpatine truly influenced his strategy
One of my favorite ideas is that the first 6 movies and the 2008 clone wars series are diegetic. They are not true tellings, they are in-universe historical propaganda. That’s why they have the heroic narrative tropes that they have. Compare that to Rogue One, Andor, and the 2003 Clones wars. I think those are closer to what “really happened” in universe.
Well in Sheev’s mind bringing order, efficiency, “peace”, to the galaxy is for the “greater good”. All villains believe they are doing right in their own story. So from a certain point of view, sheev is the hero and luthen is the evil rebel spy bringing chaos to the galaxy
But I point to the Return of the Jedi, what defeats The Emperor? Was it that the rebels had a better strategy or planning? Of course not! Palpatine out played them at the at Endor, the rebels were caught in a trap. They were losing for most of the battle, but were it not for Leia, Han, Luke and the rest making friends with the locals, the Ewoks. The rebellion would’ve been crushed at Endor. And what defeated Palpatine, ultimately? “In the End however, was it not the father’s love for his Son and a son’s love for his father that stopped the Emperor and his Empire?”
Yep, Luthen, Palpatine and to a lesser extend even Dooku were the kinds of leader hiding their nastier sides behind noble facades, and they were all very good at it. Its just that Palpatine was genuinely evil, Dooku was an idealist gone rotten, while Luthen never lost sight of what his goal was. Of the three I think Dooku was the least brilliant by a wide margin, but still capable of playing the role none the less.
8:37 this is the only play. If the ISB had gotten even a whiff of the mole that Rael’s spy in their midst it would have, at a minimum lost Rael that asset, at a maximum it could have led to Rael himself, and potentially stopped this iteration of The Rebel Alliance from forming. Maybe down the road something similar could have formed without Rael, but for Rael that was an impossible thought…
In a word, there is one difference between Luthen and Palpatine. One key variable that completely changes the formula. His compassion. Palpatine is a heartless, selfish, narcissist. He cares only for himself. Luthen is the opposite. Make no mistake, there is narcissim. But by some miracle, he also holds compassion for others. When he sees victims of war, poverty, oppression, and suffering, he gets angry. And he can't fight his own nature. He makes mention of a "path for which there was no escape." And yes, he is partially talking about his own damnation, but he is also talking about how he could be nothing else but what he is. There is no eventuallity where he becomes a gardener, a tradesman, where he enjoys retirement. It's not in him. This life of espionage, sabotage, deceit, betrayal, and scheming is the only life he could have ever lived. He sees that same spark in Andor when he tells him "you'll likely die fighting."
Great video. I think it is still possible ((But unlikely.) he was a Jedi, they did have sects that were better trained for this sort of thing and given the era, some of them may have been push to these measures. I've often wondered if I'd be capable of this role; not instinctively but, in war, you may have no other options.
It's astounding when you think about it. Out of everything that's gestated out of Disney Star Wars the most consistent improvement they have made to the series is the rebellion against the empire. Whether that's by design or not, all the best stories and writers make the original trilogy era's rebels look better, more compelling, more competent than they had before. The OT not the sequels.
this shows the dilemma faced in an insurgency. what are you willing to do so you can succeed in your cause. if someone who is a civilian is loyal to the enemy are you willing to kill him, are you willing to kill that innocent man for your cause? are you willing to do horrible things so you may succeed? and this is what Luthen Rael has to face in order for the rebellion to succeed.
I am glad andor showed a realistic representation since it gives a story that shows the price that comes to achieving a ultimate goal similar to what happen in the rebellion of the colonists that founded the united states many innocent people were sacrificed to achieve the goal of independence and the Foundation of a new nation.
In my cannon Luthen was a lower ranking security member of the Senate guard. Maybe he witnessed the true nature of Palpatine during the transition of power from Valorum to Palpatine? Maybe whilst acting as a security guard - he overheard some of the high level security talks between the jedi and Senate guard and republic intelligence about the Sith. Maybe Luthen's team was silently purged and he is the only remaining member of his original team? Maybe he had a personal relationship with a lower member jedi who was exeecuted in front of him whilst he was on duty. Regardless Luthen is the bomb!!!
I think Anarchists would disagree. "Acting as our oppressers is the only way to be able to defeat them". We'd probably argue that point you're defending, the need* to dethrone* the Emperor", leaves the throne intact for another Emperor to come someday, Sidious showed us how it was possible. We'd argue, theres a need for imagination in "revolution" otherwise, you'll end up like the Starwars "Legends" timeline, war after war after war after war, some peace, then more wars when that "inevitably" fails, war, war, war. It seems, Starwars doesnt have a solution to the problem, just an understanding of how to make the teeter totter fall on their side for a little while.
Hey Alan could you do a video on what if the republic didn’t become the empire and palpatine died just before the end of the clone wars how do you think the galaxy have would have looked and what would have happened to the republic, the clones, the Jedi and the cis?
In the way you are saying this story is taken from a famous novel, A tale Of Two Cities or The Man In The Iron Mask. All Star Wars flims come from basically some of the greatest stories we can imagine and two world wars and legends of the Creeks and Roman Empire, Romulas, and Remus. It's a base story of Vader and Skywalker and the empire and the forces, magic, and control.
Luthen is Palpatine's Rebel counterpart, the man willing to use fear, anger and hatred to motivate people to fight against stifling order rather than the threat of cataclysmic chaos presented by the inherently lawless galaxy. However, he is separate from Saw Gerrera in the sense that he also saw value in hope, compassion and love, and is able to separate his pride and personal, vengeful desire to destroy the Empire from his mission to inspire a Rebellion (while Saw gave in to pride, jealousy and greed, like a Darksider unable to control their impulses long enough to do anything productive with how long they've got before their power destroys gets them killed, in his obsession with hurting the Empire directly). He is also capable enough of humility and guilt to understand the weight of what he is doing all the while recognizing its necessity to shake people out of apathy, to get them to recognize the extent of the Empire's corruption and resist before it's too late. While not a confirmed Force-sensitive,
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping @Manscaped with promo code GTECH at Manscaped.com/gtech! #manscapedpartner
Manscaped is the perfect sponsor for talking about who took out that wrinkly old ballsack Palpatine!
"I would demonstrate it for you guys but Manscaped said it was completely unnecessary. As a matter of fact, they stressed that point when they gave me feedback about this ad." -Allen (Alan?)
You get what he's really saying, right?
(6:13)
For the boys!🤣
Luthern explicitly stated that his actions mirror those of Palpatine (for that matter, so does Mon Monthma). Luthern, however, realizes...he stated explicitly...that his actions are condemnable, and that by his actions, he deserves the dark personal future that is surely ahead of him. That's the critical difference between him and Palpatine.
FAX
He also knows that the only way to start building what can become the rebellion requires drastic actions or nothing will ever happen
Also Palpatine did all to himself unlike Luthen. Palpatine was a selfish SOB.
When does he explicitly state that
@@thikifo395 in his awesome monologue. What do I sacrifice? EVERYTHING!
Be careful of your friend Palpatine, and your pal Friendpatine
The Farce is strong in this one.
What about Buddypatine?
@@JonathonSwinney2814 We don't talk about Buddypatine. Ever.
I clicked on the video just to like this post.
And your hot chocolate, Ovaltine
“I burned my life, to make a sunrise I know I’ll never see.”
Still one of the greatest lines ever written by the man himself Luthen.
That whole speech gives me chills and marks him as the true tragic hero of the Star Wars saga. Without him, there was no rebellion, no victory against evil and yet he accepted that it was his fate to be forgotten or at best remembered as a monster.
@ exactly… which is why I have a feeling he is probably going to die in season two
@@OrionInSpace Mon Mothma is probably the only person who knew he existed by the time of Endor and she'd never speak of him, because she knew better than anyone that if the New Republic was going to survive, it needed to maintain a pristine, heroic image, one that that Luthen could never be a part of. She knew him, maybe she honoured him in her own way, but she could never let the Galaxy know of him and his sacrifices.
@ perhaps to keep his secrets hidden she’ll have to be the one to kill him
Wow the dialogue is so good. Saw says "For the greater good." And Luthen does not answer anything theatrical. He plainly states "call it what you will".
This right there is genius.
Thank you for your angle of view on this, it was educational and insightful as always. Best SW channel on youtube!
Trying to correct Saw on his declaration would have only set off Saw all over again, and the two would have been right back to holding one another at gunpoint a second time. Luthen telling Saw to call it what he liked was basically him saying: "I don't agree, but whatever makes you feel justified, you psycho." And honestly, what good would correcting Saw have actually done? It's a good response, but it's very pragmatic.
Now I’m trying to picture Luthen speaking with Thrawn about their ideals
We need this!!!
If they ever gonna do this, Timothy Zahn should write it. Either him or nobody
@@mrzirak792 I concur
Grand Admiral Thrawn would immediately turn Luthen in to Palpatine, once he figured out what Luthen was fighting for (and he would figure it out, too! Thrawn was a super-intelligent SOB!!). So unless this is the actual way that Luthen is killed in this series, it's never going to happen.
@@jacob4920 maybe this is what caused Thrawn to be left with no career option but to get "accidentally" captured by the spacewhales in Rebels. :)
Luthen is not a hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.
But Luthen is a hero, an anti hero who is very pragmatic
He's not the hero the Galaxy deserves... rather, he's the hero the Galaxy NEEDS!!
Luthen is no longer a good man, but he is a necessary one.
There is no highroad to take when the enemy holds all roads at gunpoint. The only line he hasn't crossed is to deliberately kill innocent people and pin it on the Empire. He creates dangerous situations where innocents COULD die, sure. But he hasn't ACTIVELY killed innocents... yet. I'll be very interested to see what he does going forward. After all, I don't see how he makes it out of Andor alive, so this is all we will get from him.
So if the Rebellion needs to exterminate the populations of planets, that's fine. So long as the Rebels win.
You're explaining what the Bolsheviks were, and why they became that way. You're apologizing for Stalin.
Most movies try to paint rebels good guys . Real life rebellion also targets civilians as well like if you are doing business or are an informant . It's a grey zone of warfare
I think Luthen will survive....by hiding deep in the shadows. Also want to bet Winter is his direct protege?
@@DamienAlexander-Ducroix God, I hope he doesn't survive. Purely because I don't want him to have to witness what the New Republic became... "all that sacrifice and for what...?" kind of thing.
I always thought Luthen is to Saw what Palpatine is to Vader. Without the trust of course
i feel like vader and palpatine don't trust each other either
@@GenerationTech If I recall correctly this matter was depicted in the fashion of the Rule of Two in the novel "Lords of the Sith" where Sidious asks Vader whether he perceives any weakness in the former's action's. Vader answered negatively but their chemistry was very intriguing and the suspense was there all the time.
@@ikkimi7745 Given that the Rule of Two was supposed to encourage apprentices to always keep an eye out for weakness, I suspect Sidious was very disappointed in the answer.
@@GenerationTechFairs fairs, they are expecting each other to turn on each other
I knew there was a reason I loved Luthen and bought his figure and put it next to palp and Thrawn.
The irony that the man just as ruthless for Palpatine is not a powerful Jedi, ruthless military leader or a nosy senator but a small museum shopkeeper/spymaster.
No power influence or even a leader just a small man planting whispers like a phantom
Or a MENACE!!!
lolllllll the shaver light with the grin. He's so silly and this channel is always better for it
Mon Mothma was worried about moving 400k. Luthen was worried about 80 million. He's the CFO of the rebellion.
Mon Mothma: The Idealist
Saw Gerrera: The Radical
Luthen Rael: The Pragmatist
Leia: Hybrid Blend
leia hutt assassin
Padme: The Enabler.
Han: The Denier
Luke: The Compassionate, Gullible
Thr33pi0: The Butler
R2: The Savior
@@DaleESkywalker
Hera: the hopeful
Kanan: the avenger
Zeb: the survivor
Ezra: the future
Chopper: the manmade horror of mutually damaging proportions
Han: The Nerf herder
Luke: The optimism
I think im more like Gerrera
What Rael forgets, or more likely doesn't know, is that the evil space wizard in charge of the empire was always going to do exactly the kind of intolerable evil Rael was hoping to goad Sidious into. The most tragic part of his character just might be that, whatever sacrifices and evil deeds he employed for the greater good, they were probably irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
That's true cause like no matter what happens palpy is always going to just try and ruin it all anyway
I think thats partially true. Luthen is an agitator of sorts. Poking and prodding the Empire until they overreact.
While the Empire does do terrible things, its roughly planned. The Ferrix Riots were not planned, and did not have involvement from Luthen.
He most definitely is aware, but by the time that happens, it would be too late. As he said, evil must be slow. He specifically poked and prodded the Empire to do it now because the Empire was simply not ready. If he had indeed waited, it would have been too late. The Empire's grip on the galaxy would have been too strong to resist effectively. He was well aware of it and says so in his meetings with Saw. He was afraid that's exactly what would happen.
@kirby7294 IDK I just feel like it would have happened at some point uk
@kirby7294 when I say likely not aware, I mean Rael is likely not aware that the galactic emperor is literally an evil space wizard drawing his power from a philosophy of subjugation and dark thoughts.
Rael's entire plan is thus based on incomplete information. Sidioua was moving as fast as he possibly could to be ever more domineering, and turning to dark deeds to resist someone who actively uses your darkness as a power source, well... Luke walked into that conundrum, too, and only Anakin pulled him out.
He's definitely not a Jedi like some people have guessed. He's clearly a normal man as far as abilities, just one with a extreme dedication to the sole purpose of doing damage to the empire he hates. He fully devotes his entire existence to organizing and coordinating rebel groups and individuals, manipulating things to make the empire look as bad as it is, and quietly overseeing it collapse to the best of his ability, probably with the intent that getting rid of it will lead to a better life for the average person.
How boring would it be, and antithetical to the theme of Andor and Rogue One, if he was just some Jedi.
@@kirby7294that’s why he’s not a Jedi. Luthen is badass is because he is not a Jedi, he’s just some guy who really hates the galactic empire
@@kirby7294 So true. The detail put into making the characters make sense is a big part of why I liked the show.
I would definitly read a novel about spycraft during the imperial era. Imagine an imperial security officer looking for the tracks of the ISB mole in the lower levels of Coruscant and discovering the networks are far more extended than they suspected. Plus the internal competition in ISB.
Tinker, traitor, 'trooper, spy.
11:41 this is the single best monologue in Star Wars. It is so well-written, filmed, and acted…
I'm convinced that Luthen is going to survive season 2, figure the rebellion doesn't need him once the fire's lit, and go into exile/hiding on Kashyyyk to end up becoming Art Carney's character from the Holiday Special.
Reasonings:
-Saun Dann ('sean dan') is the fakest name in star wars
-Saun and Luthen look suspiciously similar
-Saun claims to be a friend of the Rebellion, but avoids directly associating with them
-Saun runs a curio shop
It almost certainly won't happen, but I've been thinking about it since season 1 ended and I want it to so badly lol
Don't you ever say an unkind thing about Luthen Rael
That man sacrificed everything so that you nerfherders can be free
Seamless transition to the ad, Allen. Well done.
9:20 in war there are always calculated risks, feints, and sacrifices. At the end of the day, loses will always occur. But do the deaths and sacrifices mean something? Do they further the objective? Are the loses worth the sacrifice? Those are the questions that haunt the generals and admirals.
Mom pick me up I’m scared, Alan is in places that have never been illuminated before
the best star wars analyzed by the best star wars channel. gotta love thoughtful media I can enjoy 10x over by examining it from new angles
Dude, this is the biggest Goose bumps video you made till now.
Ive been watching your channel for like 5 years now, never commented till now.
Just wanted to let you know that this video character-comparison was pretty great!
Just one creative input... I would have been engaged even more if you let the whole Luthan-sacrifice Monologue play at @11:26. great work guys.
I didn’t even realise Luthen wasn’t Palpatine this video has already won its argument
First ad I’ve actually watched all the way through. Comedy gold, my friend 😂
I love the darker tone of Andor. I love the whole spy-gamery going on. I can't wait for season 2 and I hope they don't mess it up.
Great video!
Control in the background..thats the true power..
Great video,Alan. Can’t wait for April to get here!
Great analysis as usual. Thanks!
Well done Allen! Loved this one!!!!
One of your best. Thank you for creating.
Amazing juxtaposition essay on both characters - I wondered when you would get around to it - definitely one of your better character analysis.
Luthen is going to end up being some sort of force user, I don't think Disney can help itself
Nah. He'll be depicted as the person who personally trained the expert spy Winter, and a great many others. Enough to keep his story going. As an exceptional spymaster, he's got the talents to make countless "Culper Rings" on various worlds.
hey allen
Excellent video. Very well laid out.
the manscaped stuff had me dying lmaooo
Great Video Alan! Luthen is my favorite Star Wars Character also.
Absolutely brilliant analysis.
That manscaped ad caught me totally off guard, shit had me in tears 😂😂😂. That's the best one I've seen, watched it twice😅
Luthen being your favourite character is 100% a respectable take, though for me, he's second place, right between Kreia and Corran Horn.
Luthen being a true CIS Loyalist Sith Lord really is an interesting concept and would canonically fit in well with what we know of him so far.
This would make sense - and surely over the history of the Rule Of Two, Maul and Tyrannus weren't the only apprentices to end up tossed aside and still alive while their master lived...the Sith kept themselves hidden from the Jedi for a thousand years...now just rinse and repeat with a second line of Sith in hiding from the Inner Core ones.
I suspect Ruthen is a former CIS agent trained by Dooku.
Having him be a secret Force-user in the end would really detract and take away from what Andor and Rogue One were thematically about - the struggle of the ordinary people against the Empire.
It doesn't always have to be about the magical space wizards and their religious squabbles.
@@mitchellhayward6492 true, true...though if he's a space wizard who doesn't use his powers...or he can only sense the force but not use the force...(is that possible?)
@keenirr5332 Personally, I don't see the point. Andor is thematically focused, and very grounded. I don't see how Force-sensitivity in Luthen will contribute to either the plot or the point, or improve on a character I already find amazingly written and interesting.
Luthen and Cassian being ordinary guys feels very refreshing to me, because if everyone in the Rebellion that isn't Luke Skywalker has no Jedi/Sith connection at all, and no special powers, it makes every victory feel more earned, and reminds us that the rebellion itself against the Empire is - and has always been - about people fighting against their oppressors.
Let Luke Skywalker be the Rebel whose story is deeply rooted in the Force, while Andor focuses on - underexplored - ordinary people.
@ 15:30 you're completely correct.......however, like you hinted at earlier, it is often a spymasters job to use glory & adventure to entice other people to join their rebellion.
The only thing in star wars that is better than Andor is your analysis of it!
This was a great assessment!
Luthen Rael = Elim Garak
Thanks. Now I had this going through my head for the last couple hours (with apologies to Star Rekt):
Mon Mothma don't know Rael's gonna plot
In his Antiques Shop
Planning something unholy
He set up shop on Coruscant
But it's all a front
Gonna hide his true story
Love any analysis of Luthen Rael.
Luthen Rael sacrificed his humanity for the greater good of all. Sheev Palpatine sacrificed humanity and all the other species for the "greater good" of himself.
I'm totally agree!
Well, the hero’s didn’t make those choices opening or during the movies. I’m damn sure they did behind them (especially Leia and Mon Mothma as she was the leader later during the war). We have to remember the saying to never meet our hero’s as we probably won’t like what you see up close and personal.
Edit: I agree he’s wasn’t a regular Jedi, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was Jedi Intelligence if he was a Jedi. He was definitely in intelligence work of some kind that’s for sure.
i like to imagine he was a jedi, but now has so much mental turmoil he doesn't even try to use the force cause he knows he'd only be able to access the darkside.
Having him be a secret Force-user in the end would really detract and take away from what Andor and Rogue One were thematically about - the struggle of the ordinary people against the Empire.
It doesn't always have to be about the magical space wizards and their religious squabbles.
It's pretty much any normal person who survived in the corporate world the last 8 years. 😂
This made me cry. Luthen is why i had to step away from starwars. he was a siren song to me, calling me to a future i want to avoid at all costs.
Loved, loved, Lovvvvved this video!
Luthen Rael is the embodiment of Nietzsche saying; "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster." Not looking into the mirror, completes his quote; "for when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."
It makes me think of Firefly, or more specifically the film Serenity.
The Operative "I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done."
Great analysis! Though I have to add that Mon Mothma also learned from Palpatine and is hiding in plain sight. While Luthen seems to coordinate the first cells and collects the threads, Mothma will most likely be the one to glue the Rebellion into an actual organization. Cannot wait for the conflict between the two masterminds to play out and how Mon Mothma will overstep the red line in holding the Emperor directly accountable for the Gorman Massacre.
Definitely one of my favorite characters as well. As a spymaster he's constantly manipulating everyone around him and it really weighs on him but he does it anyway " for the greater good".
Will it be for the better or for the worse if Luthen Rael ended up becoming the Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic?
Great work.
Luthen Is one of my favorite parts of Andor. The Rebellion would have lived and died in the hands of spymasters like him until near the later part of it until they turned into a civil war, which didn't really happen until the last couple years. Small cells are easily isolated, cutoff, and dealt with. They can come together and do some larger missions together, but you are only going to offer an ongoing insurgency, at best, and with it limited to only some parts of the galaxy, the Empire would have eventually just scrubbed it all out until there were just periodic pockets that sprouted, were cut down, and died in cycles. For a successful movement, you need people like Luthen to set up support networks and communications, then start organizing the whole thing into an actual fighting force.
You also need to poke the bear to stir up recruiting. I bet he would have been thrilled about the Death Start attack and it's quick destruction by a fresh faced recruit in an X-Wing. That poster made itself there and was the second big wave of recruits to the Rebellion.
Great as always
He's the rebellions Silco.
I almost want to Concur. I see the parallel between Silco's dedication to the establishment of Zaun as a sovereign entity and Luthen's dedication to the rebellion. I also see the ruthless calculation in both characters.
But there is a viciousness, narcissism and possibly even sadism to Silco that I don't see in Luthen. Silco demands respect, and, you can tell, truly enjoys wielding power over those he feels are beneath him. He likes having power. He accomplishes much of his agenda by being feared, flooding the streets with shimmer and in general by being the hnic.
Luthen doesn't seem to seek power at all and accomplishes his ends primarily through manipulation, convincing argument and putting people between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't care to have his name ring out or if he is respected by any wider group. In fact, it would be detrimental to how he moves.
Luthen just wants the Republic restored, or at least for the Empire to fall. He has no designs on governing any part of it. In fact, he doesn't believe he'll be around to witness his own ends achieved. But, Silco, doesn't just want Zaun to exist, he wants to run it once it does.
Cant wait for Andor S2 🤙🤙
Tbh the advertisment had me laughing quite hard 😂
As long as we don't get a scene with Palpatine saying to Luthen "We're not so different, you and I" I'll be happy.
I have sacrifice half dozen children in the mines of Frostpunk. It must be done.
6:37
Looks like allan is playing a horror movie villain.
Luthen and Saw together is gold. More of that, hopefully.
The moment Luthen said I use my enemies tools and become them with the black cloak and cane made me realize how much Palpatine truly influenced his strategy
One of my favorite ideas is that the first 6 movies and the 2008 clone wars series are diegetic. They are not true tellings, they are in-universe historical propaganda. That’s why they have the heroic narrative tropes that they have.
Compare that to Rogue One, Andor, and the 2003 Clones wars. I think those are closer to what “really happened” in universe.
Andor had such good characters, Luthen Rael, Dedra Meero, and Kino Loy. Heck Syril Khan is ironically enough one of my favorites 😂
Interesting.
Well in Sheev’s mind bringing order, efficiency, “peace”, to the galaxy is for the “greater good”. All villains believe they are doing right in their own story. So from a certain point of view, sheev is the hero and luthen is the evil rebel spy bringing chaos to the galaxy
Given different circumstances, Luthen would make one *helluva* bad guy. And Skarsgard's performance of that would be phenomenal, as ever.
But I point to the Return of the Jedi, what defeats The Emperor? Was it that the rebels had a better strategy or planning? Of course not! Palpatine out played them at the at Endor, the rebels were caught in a trap. They were losing for most of the battle, but were it not for Leia, Han, Luke and the rest making friends with the locals, the Ewoks. The rebellion would’ve been crushed at Endor. And what defeated Palpatine, ultimately? “In the End however, was it not the father’s love for his Son and a son’s love for his father that stopped the Emperor and his Empire?”
Yep, Luthen, Palpatine and to a lesser extend even Dooku were the kinds of leader hiding their nastier sides behind noble facades, and they were all very good at it. Its just that Palpatine was genuinely evil, Dooku was an idealist gone rotten, while Luthen never lost sight of what his goal was. Of the three I think Dooku was the least brilliant by a wide margin, but still capable of playing the role none the less.
Not even in the galaxy far, far away, you can escape manscaped
Im a lumberjack and im ok , singing * ( sponsorship) a shorn scrotum ( doctor evil )
8:37 this is the only play. If the ISB had gotten even a whiff of the mole that Rael’s spy in their midst it would have, at a minimum lost Rael that asset, at a maximum it could have led to Rael himself, and potentially stopped this iteration of The Rebel Alliance from forming. Maybe down the road something similar could have formed without Rael, but for Rael that was an impossible thought…
I hope we get a Mon Mothma show after Andor. Keep the Rebellion stories going!
In a word, there is one difference between Luthen and Palpatine. One key variable that completely changes the formula. His compassion. Palpatine is a heartless, selfish, narcissist. He cares only for himself. Luthen is the opposite. Make no mistake, there is narcissim. But by some miracle, he also holds compassion for others. When he sees victims of war, poverty, oppression, and suffering, he gets angry. And he can't fight his own nature. He makes mention of a "path for which there was no escape." And yes, he is partially talking about his own damnation, but he is also talking about how he could be nothing else but what he is. There is no eventuallity where he becomes a gardener, a tradesman, where he enjoys retirement. It's not in him. This life of espionage, sabotage, deceit, betrayal, and scheming is the only life he could have ever lived. He sees that same spark in Andor when he tells him "you'll likely die fighting."
Great video. I think it is still possible ((But unlikely.) he was a Jedi, they did have sects that were better trained for this sort of thing and given the era, some of them may have been push to these measures.
I've often wondered if I'd be capable of this role; not instinctively but, in war, you may have no other options.
I really need to finish watching Andor.
Someone has to be the smart one. Idealism and hope only get you so far.
It's astounding when you think about it. Out of everything that's gestated out of Disney Star Wars the most consistent improvement they have made to the series is the rebellion against the empire. Whether that's by design or not, all the best stories and writers make the original trilogy era's rebels look better, more compelling, more competent than they had before.
The OT not the sequels.
this shows the dilemma faced in an insurgency. what are you willing to do so you can succeed in your cause. if someone who is a civilian is loyal to the enemy are you willing to kill him, are you willing to kill that innocent man for your cause? are you willing to do horrible things so you may succeed? and this is what Luthen Rael has to face in order for the rebellion to succeed.
I am glad andor showed a realistic representation since it gives a story that shows the price that comes to achieving a ultimate goal similar to what happen in the rebellion of the colonists that founded the united states many innocent people were sacrificed to achieve the goal of independence and the Foundation of a new nation.
In my cannon Luthen was a lower ranking security member of the Senate guard. Maybe he witnessed the true nature of Palpatine during the transition of power from Valorum to Palpatine? Maybe whilst acting as a security guard - he overheard some of the high level security talks between the jedi and Senate guard and republic intelligence about the Sith. Maybe Luthen's team was silently purged and he is the only remaining member of his original team? Maybe he had a personal relationship with a lower member jedi who was exeecuted in front of him whilst he was on duty. Regardless Luthen is the bomb!!!
I think Anarchists would disagree. "Acting as our oppressers is the only way to be able to defeat them". We'd probably argue that point you're defending, the need* to dethrone* the Emperor", leaves the throne intact for another Emperor to come someday, Sidious showed us how it was possible. We'd argue, theres a need for imagination in "revolution" otherwise, you'll end up like the Starwars "Legends" timeline, war after war after war after war, some peace, then more wars when that "inevitably" fails, war, war, war. It seems, Starwars doesnt have a solution to the problem, just an understanding of how to make the teeter totter fall on their side for a little while.
I think luthen is a Jedi. At first I was against that idea, but now I’m warming up to it, IF it’s done right.
I would love for Luthen to be revealed to be a San Tekka.
ABSOLUTELY AWESOME 👏 ❤
Hey Alan could you do a video on what if the republic didn’t become the empire and palpatine died just before the end of the clone wars how do you think the galaxy have would have looked and what would have happened to the republic, the clones, the Jedi and the cis?
Valen Hess had many unpleasant decisions to make with Operation Cinder.
In the way you are saying this story is taken from a famous novel, A tale Of Two Cities or The Man In The Iron Mask. All Star Wars flims come from basically some of the greatest stories we can imagine and two world wars and legends of the Creeks and Roman Empire, Romulas, and Remus. It's a base story of Vader and Skywalker and the empire and the forces, magic, and control.
Luthen is Palpatine's Rebel counterpart, the man willing to use fear, anger and hatred to motivate people to fight against stifling order rather than the threat of cataclysmic chaos presented by the inherently lawless galaxy.
However, he is separate from Saw Gerrera in the sense that he also saw value in hope, compassion and love, and is able to separate his pride and personal, vengeful desire to destroy the Empire from his mission to inspire a Rebellion (while Saw gave in to pride, jealousy and greed, like a Darksider unable to control their impulses long enough to do anything productive with how long they've got before their power destroys gets them killed, in his obsession with hurting the Empire directly).
He is also capable enough of humility and guilt to understand the weight of what he is doing all the while recognizing its necessity to shake people out of apathy, to get them to recognize the extent of the Empire's corruption and resist before it's too late.
While not a confirmed Force-sensitive,
Calling it. THIS man trained Winter directly. Her skills as an Alliance spy make me suspect it.
Nice analogy.
A good Palpatine, probably lacking access to the Force.
Probably.
At some point somehow your microphone audio got panned slightly to the left.
Thought my damn AirPods broke again