Buffy the Vampire Slayer Talk w/ Thor || s3e17 "Enemies"
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2022
- watch the full reaction (Thor's first, and my rewatch) on either Thor's patreon:
/ thorreacts
or mine!:
/ alleybox
⇨ and go watch his next reaction for 3x18 posted rn on his channel!! / @nickreacts6394
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The way Alley watches Thor during the reveal of the twist. 😂
And her sly faces "I know" hehe
39:50 and when they go to Buffy's house it's David playing Angel playing Angelus playing Angel.
Uh damn you beat me to that, haha
"2nd best" with the slo-mo and the music, is one of my all-time favorite moments in Buffy.
When Faith kissed Buffy’s forehead, the script called for the lips, but WB’s Standards and Practices people weren’t yet on board with allowing two girls to kiss on tv in prime time.
Whaaaaat 🤯 I never knew that!
Not surprised considering other episodes, but it still surprises me how backwards TV was in the 90’s. Things I wouldn’t think would have been Issues were issues. Though Eliza did get to put in an interesting layer of subtext into her character anyway.
@@zemoxian I don't know what you mean by, "the 90's." Network television is pretty much the exact same way today. Sure, streaming services let their shows do mostly whatever they want, but network tv is the same as it always was.
@@aperson4640 Really?! Omg that’s atrocious that Network TV is still rampantly homophobic in the US. You poor Americans.
We’ve had gay kisses on tv in the UK since the 80s & 90s. ( We don’t call it ‘network tv’ over here, but the same thing, main Chanel’s, not cable or satellite ones back then)
This seems doubtful considering the sexual tension was confirmed to be unintentional on the part of the writers. You're not the only one making this claim, but I haven't found anything from the people behind the show to back it up.
The fakeout of this episode is still iCONIC and I love that Thor included Alley in this!!!!
It was. I am surprised I didn't remember it when Whedon did it again in The Avengers.
@@dannyheel1
I missed it too. I had to think on that one. Natasha’s interrogation of Loki?
Spoilers…
Of course the more obvious on is “I’m always angry.” I can’t untie that scene from the Angel finale. I always think of them both together.
And the dying robot scene in Buffy and Serenity. Though it was a bit more disturbing with just a torso.
The “Always” moment is my favorite part of this episode because it was played beautifully. The foreshadowing of this moment when Angel gives Buffy the journal in Helpless and has “Always” written in it makes Buffy’s response that much sweeter since she thought about her response and made sure it truly meant something.
Faiths acting 2nd best to Angelus at 1st followed by Alley and her acting clueless to Thor's actual cluelessness .. priceless. 🧛♂
You left out a key scene. In the demon’s apartment Faith reaches around a corner to flip on the lights, without even looking, and Buffy sees her do it-which is how Buffy realizes that Faith was the one who killed the demon, and took the books.
I was going to mention this. Very easy to miss on first watch, I probably missed it
But yeah....it's a very telling. The way Buffy looks at Faith right after she turns the light on is Buffy's "light bulb moment" lol. How did she know the light switch was right there, without looking, unless she had been here before
i talk about this with him :) i noticed it my first time watching so i waited till the end to see if he did too, and he didn’t so i told him
@@alleybox Buffy hadn't suspected anything yet at this point. Light switch being where it was would be expected, all light switches are by doors like that, and Faith lived in an apartment just like this. Also, Faith had only been in the apartment 1, not many times. Only way to memorize where things are like that would be to have been there many times, or to have stayed in an identical unit for a period of time (like Faith had), so people thinking it was sus' that Faith knew where the light switch was is just us projecting our own forknowledge into the scene. After all, it is after this that Buffy is talking to Willow about Faith and Angel's almost kiss, and she clearly hasn't figured out that Faith killed the demon and stole the books at that point.
@@spamfilter32 nah, faith turned on the switch with her back turned. Buffy sensed the whole thing being off when they were leaving and she looked towards the switch.
@@mdnaholi while Faith had been in the apartment before, she didn't spend time in it. She reached for where a light switch would naturally be.
I absolutely adore how Thor collabs with other TH-camrs. Great to see him on Alley's channel!
I love the little details that "Angelus" point out. "Shes so cute when she is sleeping" is such an Angelus line! He would be enjoying himself, he is being truthful and he knows how much the truth of that digs at Faith insecurities. Its the wonderful joy of watching Angelus on screen, even if its just an act.
I love Faith and the Mayor as villains. I love their dynamic.
Honestly it's sad that it's one of Faiths most uncomplicated and healthy relationships, they do really care for each other.
Except maybe her first Watcher.
Buffy was good too but siblings dynamics aren't simple, because of the jealousy.
I also Just realized that the "Damsel fake out reversal" for allowing the big bad to monologue their plan out was also done by Joss Whedon in Avengers with Natasha Romanov
Remember that in Faith's first fight sequence she taunts a vampire by saying "My dead mother hit me harder than that." It goes by fast, but the comics later confirm that this means she was 1) abused 2) orphaned and 3) in environments ever since where that's normal enough to just bring up casually. I think that might be why she went for the avuncular mayor so hard, since so far she has one mia father, one awful mother, and her watchers were 1) murdered in front of her then 2) betrayed her to the council the second she did something wrong.
Two little things I really like about this episode that you might miss on first viewing:
1) Buffy (the character, not SMG) is a noticeably worse actor than Angel. Her reaction to Angelus's supposed return is...weirdly muted, given what a big deal this should be for her. It's an early clue that it's a ruse - Buffy's not quite pulling off pretending to be terrified and heartbroken.
2) There was absolutely no reason for Angel to knock Xander out. He wasn't in on the ruse (so he couldn't have accidentally given the game away), he wasn't suspicious of Angel and Faith already believed that Angel had turned. He could have just "pretended to be Angel," like he did with Joyce. He must have done it because he felt like it. Given what an asshole Xander frequently is to him, I get it, but it's still hilariously petty.
Petty Angel is my favorite Angel, tbh
"There was absolutely no reason for Angel to knock Xander out."
Agreed. Even worse, that punch had the potential to blow their cover too early. At that point, he and Faith should have been maintaining the deception that he was still Angel.
Well if Angel is playing Evil 😈, let him have some Fun. He did the same thing with Xander in „School Hard.“ The Guy just buggs him 😅
It's notable as well that Faith's acting is also mediocre at best. Her delivery when she's first trying to convince Angel she is afraid of falling to darkness is clipped and rushed. They do their best but acting is not the Slayers' strong suit. Angel by contrast has lived far longer, has a deeper understanding of human nature and is naturally more convincing in his performances.
@@aperson4640 Also, Angel the show plays with the idea that Angel and Angelus aren't as separate as Angel likes to pretend they are. It is, for example, the simplest way to explain why Angel temporarily lost his soul, kinda-sorta, while on ecstasy, and somehow got it back without needing to have the ritual performed again: he didn't lose his soul, and Angel's just acting on all the violent, cruel thoughts that cross his mind because he's intoxicated. So it's also possible that he's...shall we say, method acting.
The key line in this episode is when Faith says “This was supposed to be my town”. How different would Faith be if Buffy had died and Faith was the one and only slayer.
Faith is jealous and weak, even if Buffy died when the master killed her and stayed dead, she'd never be able to reach Buffy's level, because Buffy truly rises above it
YES YES YES! Thor and Alley together, how exciting! 👏👏
Great comment from Thor about thinking the Mayor amuses himself with being aware of the evil vs caring sides of his nature. Appreciate the comments from both of you on all the episodes, always something interesting to think about after watching your videos
Legends unite
I love that you got the Waiting For Godot reference. Considering this was a show targeted at teens in the 90's when the internet was brand new, it was some serious theater geeks to know Godot, a stage show from the 50's.
it's definitely not the only obscure reference _buffy_ makes. for all its reputation for being pop culture "relevant", it actually assumes a pretty broad knowledge base.
I'm only just getting the reference now after all these years 😅
I’m pretty sure every 90’s kid and 2000’s kid read Godot in English class…
@@sirmoonslosthismind I don’t find the reference obscure at all. This was standard reading in a ton of schools. Everyone I knew growing up had to read or watch Waiting For Godot.
Lol Alley you’re side-eye is so good
The discussion in this video compelled me to also talk about how Buffy's duality ("you can't just define me by my slayerness, that's "something-ism"") is what makes her so resilent. It's typically when someone let's themselves be so consumed by something whether it's a romantic relationship, a career, a child, etc that ends up being you're undoing. If we only define ourselves by one thing we end up loosing ourselves and having nothing to fall back on. Finding new meaning and have more than one purpose is Part of Walden's 4 tasks of processing and healing for grief. It also resonates with Buddism I think: we much free ourselves from attachment to reduce suffering. Buffy has a while life: a mentor, friends, family, passions outside of slaying. Faith let's slaying consume her, Buffy on the other hand has self-control in part because I think of how She's developed as an individual she knows how to make choices, wisely. Faith acts/carriers herself as someone at the mercy of their circumstances.
INDEED! I literally just today watched a Try Moms video wherein one of the gals was talking about trying to be everything for your kids, but making sure you don't lose yourself because every day your kids also become more and more a part of the world, so you need to make sure you still have you when they get older.
This takes me back to Buffy's guidance counsellor in Beauty & the Beasts. He talks about people losing themselves in love, becoming consumed and staying lost.
I loved how Xander called cordelia CC its funny also since Charisma Carpenter has the same initials 🙂
You guys, please collab again in the future! This was so fun and I had been hoping for an Alley x Thor for so long! I'd love to see another one, maybe in one of the iconic season 4 episodes? 😁
Alley you are the best reactor that Thor makes videos with as far as not spoiling anything. No spoilery comments, facial expressions, or anything. I do feel like Faith’s backstory is pretty well established as tragic. Not only did she see her Watcher get horribly brutalized and murdered (and then the vampire chased her down and tried to kill her), but there’s more to it than that. Obviously this episode has the line of “my mom was too busy enjoying the drinking and passing out parts of life,” but in the first episode she’s introduced, she says “my dead mother hits harder than that.”
Also, my head cannon is that the demon was aware of the connection between Angel, Giles and Buffy and so when the Mayor called on him, he went to Giles specifically to repay his debt.
It's not a headcanon. Giles outright said, "Thank you for coming to me."
This is already such a fun episode to watch someone react to due to the twist, but watching you, watching for Thor's reaction, truly just added another level of awesome!!!
Yeah, when we're talking about the delivery has on the impact of a line, that "second best." is one of my favourites too - only topped by a few, eg "She's not like us..." in Buffy S5 and "Who was that?" in Angel S2
EDIT: The casualness of the "I introduced him to his wife" is one that always just has me rolling 🤣😂, 39:50 and at a few points it's David playing Angel playing Angelus playing Angel...
I have watched the show through so many times and i still find the show amazing. Second watch is a must :)
That reveal--so awesome. I love our team having a one-up on the bad guys for a change.
Back in the days before any seasons of _Buffy_ were out on DVD, select episodes were released two-to-a-tape on VHS. "Enemies" was paired up with "Earshot", which made quite the double-feature.
Even without looking forward, the line "You kill me, you become me..." that Faith says to Buffy could also be seen as her looking into the recent past, as two of the people Faith killed to get to where she is now were the Deputy Mayor, and Mr. Trick. She now essentially fulfills both their roles at the Mayor's side.
LOL !! Omg! The idea that Angel & Buffy's hands would touch over the popcorn and that Angel's soul would evaporate ... !! 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Omg that's priceless, thanks for that Alley. 😄
I have not verified this, but I have read that the Mayor's "miniature golf" line was ad-libbed, and Faith's reaction to it was genuine because she did not see it coming.
It was on the script. An improvisation in a Mutant Enemy show was very rare.
THE CROSSOVER I NEEDED!!
Great reaction guys.. and well played Alley not hinting at him what was really happening ;)
I think Angel not being as pale as Angelus was, is another subtle hint at still being Angel.
Love seeing my two favorite reactors watching buffy together 🥰
Angel went far far undercover. A bit too far? He always has Angelus in him, so it's not a stretch. But at one point, like with the e Joyce moment, it's David playing Angel playing Angelus playing Angel. Always fun.
Sweet crossover!
I've seen Thor link up with a couple other TH-camrs I watch but was not expecting this❤️❤️
alley and thor is not the crossover we deserved, but the crossover we needed.
This is one of my favourite Buffy episodes. The ending breaks my heart in so many ways. Always & forever
Alley you have Angel level acting skills when it comes to Pokerface!
Omg the milk commentary AMAZING!
I recommend you both watch Passion of the Nerd’s channel recapping these episodes. He does a deep dive on the differences between Buffy and Faith and the psychology behind it. It’s fascinating.
They've probably heard that a million times but it can't be said enough. The only problem is that many of his videos contain spoilers for those who haven't finished the series yet.
I’m horrified about the backstory about the cat skinning every time I hear that line.
And every time I hear that expression I’m thinking the Mayor knows all about that. Fortunately it’s not as commonly used these days. I mostly hear it on Buffy reaction channels.
There's a whole cat vs dogs motif that runs through S3 and this line is really interesting in that context. The Mayor's real target wasn't Angel. It was Faith. He was ensuring that she was definitively on his side. That's why he isn't all that upset when the plot to turn Angel falls apart:
"Chin up! You don't see me looking disappointed. Heck, no. You know why? Because I know you'll always have me, Faith. I'm the best, the most important friend you'll ever have."
I totally get mourning the friendship. Because Buffy hs true friends, good friends, but they will never be able to fully understand the part of her that is Slayer. So in one sense, no matter what, she's always alone in the world, and that's the fate of the Slayer. Buffy already breaks that fate by having friends at all, but Faith could have been the one person in the world who understood THAT part of her and vice versa. To see them lose that is super sad. And Faith needs that connection more than anyone but she's making the wrong choices and throwing it away. 😭
I liked the intense tension in your face when thor trailed about how interesting it would be if the slayer whose name i can't think of killed someone Buffy loved. Major congrats on your silence.
OMG the coop for this episode! Thank you!
26:00 He should have said "The thing about vampires Faith, we don't talk to our dinner."
Aaah, so glad to see you two doing a collaboration episode together :)
love this reaction!
I really hope they watch season 4 finale together XD that would be hilarious watching Thor be like ?? & Alley knowing but still being like ?? (especially after Tabula Rasa because it makes one very small scene from s4 finale hilarious)
i could see thors shock and ur attempt to keep composure was an awesome combination
My two favorite Buffsters together, Nice job, folks.
Can’t believe she inadvertently spoiled season 2 of Angel when she said that Angel is going to be Faith’s murder sponsor.
love this pair up
Nice to see Alley doing the torturing for a change rather than the ranting about what is happening this week.
love these little crossovers
Lol excellent collab
Two of my favorite reactors at once?? Yes!!
The opening line of the video saddens me because it shows how little they knew Faith. She's on the wrong path and definitely making mistakes, but it is easy to see why she chose the mayor over the Scoobies.
This was so good, I feel like I would watch a whole new series of them reacting to Buffy together from S1 E1
Beyond Belief, I loved that show!
2 best buffy reactors yeah !!👍
Haven't started watching yet... but Thor and Alley collab? EEEEEEEEEeeee! :)
Yay! Thor and Alley!
18:17 that little chuckle Lmfaoo
I love that Angel diddnt have to puch Xander at all, lol
Thor puts Alley’s video quality to shame.
Angel learned everything he knows about acting from Cordelia. 😎
Maybe Buffy, Angel & Willow could’ve worked out some kind of arrangement, where Willow always keeps a few Orbs of Thesulah on hand. That way Buffy & Angel could hook up a couple/few times a year & Willow could just pop his soul back in right after he loses it.
Also, perhaps Willow could keep a few extra orbs on hand, just in case they get carried away every now & then.
Who knows, it might have saved the relationship.
If Orbs of Thesulah grew on trees.
OMG! That's hilarious! You probably didn't mean it ti be. But that is SOOOO bloody risky that it really made me laugh. Thanks :D
yo the collab happened? LETS GO
I watch Alley and struggle not to put spoilers, even vague spoilers, in the comments so she can enjoy the show... Shoes on the other foot now! lol
Do you have plans on checking out Firefly amd Serenity?
Hi Alley! I was wondering if you could do a QnA video, because I had some questions about things like: do you prefer Buffy to Supernatural? Or, what is your all time favorite episode? You have the best reactions, and definitely the funniest as well. Thanks for these videos! They make my day! :D
You are right Faith's past wasn't really canonized, but if you are interested and if you can get a copy (I think its long out of print so tends to be expensive) there is a very good novel titled "Go Ask Malice: A Slayer's Journey" by Robert Joseph Levy which I think does a good job of postulating Faith's past given the clues we viewers all got from the show.
Is it Thor's intention to team up with every other current great reactor out there? If so, then I fully support this effort.
Everyone is Welcome! 🤗
My absolute Favorite 😻 Episode in „Buffy the Vampire Slayer.“ It’s pure „Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde.“. Two Woman 👩 👩, One Guy, split in the middle.. 👹 👼
I think this was one of the greatest twists in the whole show. Enemies was a super episode where the arc of the show kept building towards Graduation Day. Again we see Faith kill the Demon in cold blood, as Angel had said previous once she had the taste for killing she would not stop. The twist with Angel pretending to have turned again to Angelus was superb. Faith realising at last what she is up against is brilliant. The build up to the finale in S3 is incredible. All is gradually being revealed with the Mayor and Faith against The Scooby Gang. The second half of S3 is really when BTVS became a stellar show! A great collaboration, but not too sure on the 'Xander hating' possibly no other character saved Buffy's life more than Xander in this show, even back in S1 Prophecy Girl only for his mouth to mouth resuscitation Buffy would have died. Xander can be irritating sure, but he is very much a crucial part of the team.
The way I think it happened is.. The demon probably has psychic powers or something and knew what was the Mayer up to, wanted to repay Giles for what he did to him so he just went straight to him as soon as he was done with the Mayor, and made plans. Also I think he's def one of those demons that is not necessarily very evil, I feel like that's why Giles gave him a pass before, just like Buffy did with that demon selling the books of ascention.
Nice of the writers to re-introduce/re-inforce the concept of "not all demons are threat to humanity" in the beggining of the episode, makes the mind open up already to the idea of that demon friend of Giles having some respectful values and probably being not that evil.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk, Ted, Ted who's here
Unexpected duo!!!
All Buffy reactors are part of a secret club.
34:00 Very diffrent than my reaction. I was like "Oh come on! NO!" Angellus is y far the best villain at this point in Buffy while Angel at this point is sooo increasingly boooring.
So Wesley dating Cordillia ist wrong but Angel a serval hundert years old Vampire can start a relationship with 16 year old Buffy with whom He Had an Obsession since she was 15.
It's definitely fine. He's not in a position of authority over her, she's 18, _and_ let us not forget he has the emotional maturity of a blueberry scone.
I love the mayor!
This show has made me suspicious of people who like miniature golf. I like miniature golf, so questioning if I was evil was a really tough time.
Ted was Satan.
Apparently Hitler liked the movie Metropolis.
Miniature golf us the Best, whatever you may be! And yeh, tie in with evil that Ted takes everyone golfing... Yet it's Buffy who cheats!
I just realized... Giles blows his nose in the hankie right. Is it the same hankie he uses to clean the glasses?
*whisper screams* yes!
18:16
That chuckle is me every time I hear her say this part lol. Faith really is a crappy liar.
I looked at this in my feed for a good solid minute thinking "Why are we jumping ahead?" before realizing that it said season 3, not season 5.
Faith did not recieve her powers at 15, she only became a slayer after Kendra died, so she's only been a slayer a few months.
Well yes, not really present; Faith said her mom was dead. "My dead mother hits harder than that."
Yup we def have Faith's backstory - from season 8 comic
Slight spoilers:
Thor: "Faith as that flawed character that can be redeemed..."
Alley: *Desperately maintains poker face*
so i think the mayor called the ninja and the ninja went to giles with that info and then they planed out that whole thing
I have a theory on how Buffy knew about Faith and then told Giles about her spot on trust issues, she saw Faith turn the lights on without looking where the switch was in an apartment she has never been in before and she was very close to Angel, Buffy seeing this and putting it together with Giles would lead them to come up with this plan.
That's not a personal theory. It's canon.
It's what actually happens there in the episode.
BUT not everyone catches it, especially on first watch or even after a few. It's discussed a lot by fans, so I guess you've just been unfortunate to miss that somehow ( the discussions I mean of course, you are obviously observant of the episode)..
I was already subscribed to both Alley and Thor , this is so cool!
I don't think that guy was a demon. I always assumed he was a powerful wizard, possibly a Necromancer ('cause of the the whole soul taking thing). The Character's name is "Shrouded Man" so this indicates he was not intended to be a demon. Giles in his Ripper days dabbled in magics so this is likely how he met the Shrouded Man.
I would have suggested going bowling instead of miniature golf, but then Faith throwing bowling balls would have been alarming.
I think the different ways different people mis-spend their youth has a massive affect on conduct and attitudes and assumptions as people shift into the adult world and start building their lives in their twenties. No-one doesn't mis-spend their youth, I'm not making any judgement on the basis that there's some optimal thing you should be doing. There isn't. But who you spend those years with, and doing what, and learning what, is huge for the next stage.
So that's the differential between Buffy and Faith to me. Faith has come from a meaner, lonelier, harder teenage, where she wasn't meeting Jesus and thinking about how to become a kinder person, or getting in with cool kids and building a cool record collection and learning to DJ, or getting devoutly into hard left or hard right politics, or just studying hard and working hard in PE to jump through the official hoops of school life. She wasn't even getting to be a cool slacker doing pot and drinking but developing really loving friendships.
I haven't read the Season Eight plus Dark Horse Comics that reveal her real back story, but she seems like someone who was never able to escape that adolescent experience of bullying and bitchiness and always having to be on your guard and learning how to put other people down with cruel jokes and criticisms, and getting good at it and eventually getting kudos for being good at it, plus a certain amount of actual fighting for whatever reason. I think that's why she's come into this situation with a lot of cynicism, and the habit of hurting people as seeming more effective and also cool.
01:35 - 01:47 In Italian we would say DRITTO PE' DRITTO!🤣🤎
02:23 - 02:39 Thor 👼VS Alley 😈
08:02 - 08:20 Thank you,Alley,I feel less alone!And no,personally the rewatch didn't help. I *still* don't care.
09:50 - 09:55 AHAHAHAHAH!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣❤❤
11:11 - 11:32 🖤💛 11:52 - 11:56 💛🤎
13:34 - 13:52 What is wrong with this guy???😂😂😂
15:01 - 15:19 ❤❤❤❤❤
17:38 - 17:52 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤎🖤
21:03 - 21:20 💙
24:00 - 24:04 How adorable are you on a scale from 1 to Willow Rosenberg?❤
31:04 - 31:05 I think you meant"Angelus",Xander.
31:12 - 31:16 🤭
33:26 - 34:06 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😎😎😎😎😎😎
34:07 - 34:20 💛🤎 And,according to the script,Faith was supposed to kiss her *on the lips!!!!!*
34:55 - 35:01 😂💞Let's hope they never divorce...;-S
36:24 - 36:32 Fuck Snape, *THIS* is my:"Always."quote!!!!💛🖤
45:06 - 45:10 Except not really. He *literally* threatened to kill her if she disappoints him,comparing her to Mr. Trick!