Electric Tractor Conversion: Hydraulic Pump Removal

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 123

  • @BenjaminNelsonX
    @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just a reminder. On this tractor, several different things use hydraulic power. The first is power steering, but that's very low power. Secondly is the rear lift - the Fast Hitch/3-Point Hitch. Last is any other external mounted equipment. In this case, the big one is a front-end-loader that came with this tractor and will be reinstalled when the tractor is all back together.

    • @AftermarketCRX
      @AftermarketCRX 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Zapi motor controllers, I've seen some in forklifts that have dual AC outputs for dual traction motors. Crown RC 5500 forklifts for example uses them. I believe it's the AC-2. However I'm not sure what would happen if you have an uneven load between the 2 sides. Not sure if they could be throttled independently either. But may be, because a counterbalanced truck will need to shut down or just reduce power to one motor while cornering. So I'm thinking there probably is a way.
      They are wonderful motor controllers too.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@AftermarketCRX I looked up some information on those. Fascinating! One version of that controller has another output - a DC "chopper" PWM power for a pump!
      It doesn't look like those controllers are designed for use with just one AC motor as the difference between the two motors is used as part of the steering system.

    • @Jshel2009
      @Jshel2009 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      -I would look for a PTO driven hydraulic pump. Attaches to the rear of PTO and it still has a shaft for PTO for implements on the other end. Grainger sales them. 540 Hydraulic PTO pumps.-
      Edit: I just realized that the PTO has a clutch to drive the rear and you need the hydraulics to run with the engine. My bad.

  • @tishbrett
    @tishbrett 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Can use a electric/ hydraulic pump unit of a truck tailgate loader or hiab truck crane all ready made for that

  • @chriswesley594
    @chriswesley594 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Great stuff Benjamin. Choosing to live in the land of "I don't know!", as you are doing here, takes some doing and attitude management is a big part of survival. It's a pleasure watching you feel your way forward on this fascinating project.

  • @theflyingfool
    @theflyingfool 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Sprocket is also a proper word for a gear wheel. It's an interesting series you are posting here, thanks!

    • @nc3826
      @nc3826 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      FWIW, in the american vernacular, it's only commonly used for chain driven drives...

    • @theflyingfool
      @theflyingfool 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nc3826 English, a common language divided by an ocean ;)

    • @nc3826
      @nc3826 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      ocean??? you mean across pond, mate..... 😁

  • @brentjohnson6654
    @brentjohnson6654 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another great video. Thanks for telling us the thought process and presenting to us the questions as if we were there working on it with you. I grew up on these tractors and it is fun to see them again.

  • @lightvsdark21
    @lightvsdark21 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another fantastic video! I LOVE your channel and your content! I could literally just spend all day watching you convert this tractor. Thanks for your dedication to getting rid of the dependency on fossil fuels!

  • @jenkinseric2
    @jenkinseric2 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    just binge watched the whole series to this point. I really with there was some way to shut off the background music. Everything that you have done with this is fascinating and well done, I especially like the intros to what was done to that point. So many youtube videos assume you have watched everything they have ever produced. The playlist is great. thanks very much for doing this. the Music is pounding now. Eric in Victoria BC Canada.

  • @ChrisHerbst-1UP
    @ChrisHerbst-1UP 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You might want to look at some of the electric hydraulic pumps on some of the garden dumpers they sell. Battery powered and string enough to lift a dump bed. Nice video!

  • @alexcaudill8868
    @alexcaudill8868 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Absolutely awesome project! Love it.

  • @gene8194
    @gene8194 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am wondering if you could intersect at the attaching point to the main shift with a chain instead of trying to do it on the other end of the motor.

  • @brianmellinger7981
    @brianmellinger7981 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice update thanks Ben 👍😎

  • @kschleic9053
    @kschleic9053 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Could you add an accumulator to the hydraulic system to get the implement movement speed you want while also decreasing the GPM requirement of the pump?

  • @acroduster
    @acroduster 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man you dont understand gas engines at all... Watching you count gear teeth to arrive at the ratio between the crankshaft and the diatributor that is for all intensive purposes a constant ratio for firing timing was a great diversion. I love your work. Im doing a iseki conversion i just started. Also hydrolic pumps are not typically rpm sensitive they just move a smaller volume at lower speeds.

  • @ChrisMuncy
    @ChrisMuncy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Good morning Ben. Something to think about as far as hydraulics. A lot of newer tractors have rear hydraulic ports for implements, such as for a box blade that has a tilt cylinder. So when you do your plumbing, you might want to keep that in mind.
    Again, great video.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      When I took the loader off, I swapped out its permanent connections for quick disconnects. Besides making it easier to reinstall the loader, it should also allow easy swapping to another piece of equipment on the back that uses hydraulics.

  • @NC-cz9jn
    @NC-cz9jn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    @BenjaminNelson fantastic and inspirational work - keenly following this and rooting for you. If you are going to be keeping the flywheel, remember that has teeth on it and always turns with the engine / motor. How about driving the hydraulic pump off that?

  • @BenjaminNelsonX
    @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    For folks suggesting powering the pump from the flywheel, can you point me to an example of ANY project where the flywheel starter teeth were used as a power OUTPUT?

    • @JohnSiler
      @JohnSiler 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Don't some hybrids use the flywheel attached to a motor/generator to power the hybrid functions and start/stop functions?

    • @ottard
      @ottard 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JohnSiler Not throught the flywheel teeth I think.

    • @JohnSiler
      @JohnSiler 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ottard I think you're correct. After looking, some are belt driven, but most have the electric motor inline separated by a clutch.

    • @JohnSiler
      @JohnSiler 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Older Honda Gullwing motorcycles have a shaft that is driven off the flywheel for the alternator. Probably for space savings, not sure if the design of the flywheel is different to accommodate this.

  • @jasonwhitler4167
    @jasonwhitler4167 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    What about using the leaf transmission? You could weld the spider gears in the differential and use one side for the drivetrain and the other for the hydraulics.

    • @jasonwhitler4167
      @jasonwhitler4167 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Looking back at you ratio calculations, the transmission output would probably be spinning too slow... So much for that idea

  • @oogie-boogie
    @oogie-boogie 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    that's the way things should be built,,that's crazy

  • @PrinceJavi
    @PrinceJavi 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Benjamin,
    I've been following your build with great interest. I'm working on a much smaller project of converting an old cub cadet 982 Garden Tractor to basically a compact tractor, If I may have a min of your time, I'd like to ask a question on sourcing and sizing a motor. I'd like to replace the ICE in my Cub with a comparable electric motor. in my case about 15kW and 42 Nm. Plus something that runs around 3200 rpm. I can find many different electric motors out there but very few hit all 3 check marks. The few that I can find that hit all 3 check marks are very expensive. Can something like this be done with a forklift motor? If so which ones should I be looking at? I find many forklift motors on ebay but most of them have really little info on kW ratings or the RPM's are really low. Can I over come the low RPM's with higher voltage? if so how do I figure out how much voltage I need? As an example: I found Clark 36-48VDC Electric Motor ECG30 Type E Forklift motor on ebay. No info on HP or RPM rating. finding that infor has been very hard, Any tips or knowledge would be appreciated.

  • @timothychapin8879
    @timothychapin8879 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I would recommend a second motor to run the pump to get the "live power". You calculated 10hp to run it.. Is that internal combustion 10hp or electric 10hp? I think the pump motor could be 5hp or lower.. As for the traction motor, if all you are doing is bucket loader work, you don't need a bunch of hp. My ford 8n conversion is running a etek pancake motor. I think it is rated at 8hp. I loose traction before i run out of power pulling. Again I am not out plowing a field with it. I'm moving trailers around launching boats, pulling out hedges.

    • @bobhotchkiss2438
      @bobhotchkiss2438 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'd love to see some pictures of how you did your 8n conversion. I'm considering making one myself. Did you direct drive, or did you retain the clutch assembly?

    • @timothychapin8879
      @timothychapin8879 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@bobhotchkiss2438 www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/e-ford-8n.80143/#post-327616... I did a direct drive and added a second pot box hooked to the clutch peddle. It works similar to a clutch but not as smooth. If i did it again, i would consider leaving in the clutch. My eTek motor is working great for me. Depending on what you are building for, you might want more power. Man how time flies... 8 years and still loving the conversion. You can email directly at tchapin@umich.edu if you want.

  • @carlsmith2826
    @carlsmith2826 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Looks like you got your hands full on this project lol.

  • @Tuckerclan
    @Tuckerclan 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the update.

  • @AndyFromm
    @AndyFromm 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Fyi, the hydraulic pumps on farmall/ih 300/350 tractors are subpar at best, I'd use aftermarket.

    • @Tuckerclan
      @Tuckerclan 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yes mine is sub-par ...... only been working great for 70 years

    • @alanswanson1952
      @alanswanson1952 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think he means the flow, not knocking the IH pump but I agree look on norther tool to find the pump you want

  • @이영현-u8r
    @이영현-u8r 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Benjamin, I am Young from Korea and am doing nearly same project with Kubota Tractor(20hp). My question is how would you do this project while working for a company?

  • @richardriehle4159
    @richardriehle4159 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    i don't think regen will be useful for that tractor (putzing around the yard work?) . especially if you go out of your way to add that feature ?

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Where this tractor will be used includes some hilly areas. It would be working harder than just putzing around the yard. Besides regeneration, an AC motor also is more efficient, and never needs brushes replaced. The Leaf motor is liquid-cooled, which means it's sealed up and dirt/mud/dust, etc can't get inside. An air-cooled DC motor would have to deal with all that.

  • @wootdeco
    @wootdeco 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Maybe use starter hole in the transmission and use some kind of gear reduction to match the rpm. You can also use starter solenoid to turn hydraulic pump on and off. This way you could use same motor and only one controller. Just an idea

    • @jecceworks
      @jecceworks 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      This would need a very large gear reduction, the starter gear is like over 100 teeth and the starter bendix gear is like 20, so it would be way too fast without many reductions. It could be easier to just power the hydraulic pump by its own motor

  • @michaelsmithers4900
    @michaelsmithers4900 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Ben, Love the video keep them coming! On the subject of this Hydraulic pump motor I would be inclined to look for a mechanical solution such as sprocket and chain off the shaft going to rear diff off the PTO? I assume you are going to have to build an adapter to go from the Leaf motor to the gearbox could you integrate sprockets and chain or gears off the old tractor into that adapter so that a it could run to the Hydraulic pump... Curious to see what happens... real cliff Hanger...!

  • @CutterSlade001
    @CutterSlade001 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    How about moving the motor to the very front and separating bellhousing / clutch adapter from it. Then you have a long shaft on which you can place a sprocket wherever it is most convenient, to drive the pump. That way you might also get more (more uniform) room for the batteries. Especially when it's possible to place the pump below the shaft.

  • @halduck
    @halduck 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Chain drive it off the flywheel on the Nissan leaf motor. The added cost and complexity of a second inverter and motor when you could just chain drive it is a no brainer

  • @omarsari4316
    @omarsari4316 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if you can convert old cars to hybrid by using rear hub?

  • @jenkinseric2
    @jenkinseric2 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    following this built because of Nikki

  • @ferkokurka
    @ferkokurka 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Again so good project. I cant wait to see next steps. 240V AC motor may have problem with rpm. 3600 is too much and slower motors are heavy or use gear

    • @jecceworks
      @jecceworks 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      It depens how many poles are in the motor windings, you can get the 3600 or 1750 or even under 1000 rpm induction motors

  • @aaronharris8245
    @aaronharris8245 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Im going to do a beetle with a electric forklift engine and put more watts in. Good watch cheers

  • @smartmooose
    @smartmooose 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    On tractors just a few years younger then your model, often have 3 hydraulic pumps. Power steering pump, wich your model did not have, 3pth and another one for your loader. So You would need at least 2 electric over hydraulics circuits to power your 3pth and loader. Snow pusher guys with pickup trucks use 12v hydraulic over electrics... i heard you say you are thinking about making your power motor spin constantly in order to spin your pump. Your Nissan motor seems bulky too. Good old Baldor would save you room for your batteries.

  • @granthaney2570
    @granthaney2570 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    electric hi lows 36 48 volt have separate hydraulic punp units to run the hydraulics on the mask

  • @jusb1066
    @jusb1066 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I subscribed, fascinating to see how this goes

  • @densamme1752
    @densamme1752 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    A secondary motor is a good idea since you want the bucket to stay in place/be movable when you stand still and you may want to power something like a woodchiper of the PTO shaft while you stand still.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The transmission, PTO, and hydraulics are all separate on this tractor, so moving/not moving aren't an issue.

    • @densamme1752
      @densamme1752 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX so you can "idle" your main electricmotor? Couldn't you fit/use the large gear as part of the flywheel assembly. What are the idling rpm of the tractor vs optimal rpm on the electric engine?

  • @willbohm6533
    @willbohm6533 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Its weird you would count gears to make sure its 1 to 1, i mean the crank and distributor do have to match.......

  • @aaronw447
    @aaronw447 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Many modern electric forklifts are AC powered. Perhaps you can find an AC hydraulic pump or motor from one of these?

  • @danteolsson3605
    @danteolsson3605 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can't you just use a PTO hydraulic pump?

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Not if I want to also be able to use the PTO at the same time.

    • @danteolsson3605
      @danteolsson3605 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX that's true 😟

  • @nc3826
    @nc3826 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Suggestion for Hydraulic Power. Add a chain driven sprocket to the base of the Leaf's motor, drive shaft. Mount the Hydraulic Pump to adapter plate, so it's aligned with the sprocket of Leaf's motor with the proper spacing. FWIW, if this a interesting concept to you, I have more details and varitaon on how this could be done?
    BTW, it could be driven at anypoint, from the base of the motor's shaft to the end of the PTO. So adapting the Hydraulic Pump or getting an off the shelf kit to be driven by the PTO would mean less fabrication and is a common option.
    IMHO, adding a seperate motor to drive it, when you don't have seperate motor for the PTO seems pointless. And while the issues with the DC motor such, as dirt affecting it its cooling ability seems to be a minor issue. Since you already have the Leaf's motor and made preliminary calcs based on using it. It does not seem worth the time to second guess yourself at this point in time. Unless run into major unforseen problem. I sure you will find a way to get it to work without doing a major redesign. KISS
    So if have any questions on my suggestions feel free to get back to me and I will add some more detail on how to make it work.
    Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi NC,
      Sounds like you have some interesting ideas there.
      Please expand on them.

    • @nc3826
      @nc3826 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX One possibility is to use a timing chain and sprockets. But I would really need input from you to take it much further.
      Such as how to keep the tension on the chain, with an idler arm or just pretension it with sloted mounting holes?
      And I need far more details. Such as if there will be room to place the sprocket on the shaft of the motor or will spacers be needed? And will there be room to place the pump between the motor and the adaptor-plate or will it have to be placed above it? With longer chain to transverse the distance. And can the pump be driven in either direction or only one? Which would determine its orientation.
      There so many variables its not easy to give you a more detailed plan on how to proceed.
      FWIW, there many possitive aspects to using the PTO drive it. So do you plan to dismantle the pump any further? Since it has 1:1 ratio the could be insterted along the PTO drivetrain and it would be a elegant way to do it. As long as the driveline of the pump that was just designed to handle a distributor could be made robust enough
      BTW, I'm a visual thinker, so it's difficult for me to express myself just words. And there are a lot of ways to "skin this cat". Feel free to get back to me.
      I hope I was helpful.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nc3826 Those are many of the things that I've thought about.
      As far as "visual thinking goes", I hope that I've done a good job SHOWING the Nissan Leaf motor shaft and various components of the tractor.
      The shaft on the motor is pretty short, and will need some sort of extension, no matter what - probably with a bearing to support the forces of the flywheel at the adapter plate.
      There are several physical limitations to the tractor right in front of the bell housing. A frame rail is on either side of the bell housing. The yoke to the front axle connects at the bottom of the bell housing. Assuming the Leaf inverter is re-used to power the motor, that is designed to mount directly on TOP of the motor. Essentially, all four directions are blocked from the motor at the bell housing.
      The tractor's hydraulic pump is designed to rotate only one direction. Other industrial pumps would be available which could rotate one direction or the other.
      Other than the PTO's actual end output shaft, I don't know how or where else a pump could be mounted. Other than just that point, all the mechanicals are internal to the tractor.
      Attaching a hydraulic pump to the PTO would make it more difficult to to use PTO accessories and it would only allow the hydraulics to be used with the PTO spinning.
      That would be a problem if the operator wanted to use the hydraulics (including power steering) WITHOUT also powering the PTO-powered machine being pulled behind the tractor.

    • @nc3826
      @nc3826 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX Pls consider, there are 360 degrees, to place the pump around the plate, not just 4 fixed points that are 90 degrees apart. For example there maybe room at about 45 or at 315 degrees that avoid interference from the side rails and the inverter?
      Or how about using, the motor shaft extension or its 1 piece coupler as a sprocket too? By welding a sprocket to the outside of the coupler or extension. And then cut slot in housing bell housing and mount the pump inline with it. Also radially it it eliminates much of the interference issues and it provides a partial covering for the chain (sheet metal shroud/house. could cover the rest of its moving parts). It just a needs more thought about how to mount the pump, since it will likely be further away from the plate.
      And, I thought you stated the PTO, would constantly turn whenever the motor was turning. I apparently miss understood, since that does not seem to be the case. So, using PTO to power the pump is less than ideal. Let's just keep it as a backup idea, at this point
      FWIW, my "visual thinking" reference was more about my inability to describe my thought in words (since I have dyslexia). Than the "job you did SHOWING the Nissan Leaf motor shaft and various components of the tractor". But it is easier to validate, if an idea is feasible, if you can to see it in-person and work on it yourself.
      BTW, I'm sure we all can come up with an idea that will work for you, if you find the current options unworkable. Good luck.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nc3826 The PTO is continuously powered by the engine, in that the "collar shaft" near the clutch, which powers the PTO system, is continuously engaged with the clutch cover and thus always spins as long as the engine does. It is NOT effected by the clutch.
      The PTO driveline inside the tractor continuously spins. Internal gearing drops the engine nominal speed down to 540 RPM for the PTO.
      Near the back of the tractor, there is a lever, which when engaged, connects the internal rotating PTO components to the external spline shaft that exits the back of the tractor.
      Internal parts of the PTO system constantly spin. The tail shaft commonly referred to as the PTO can be turned on and off.
      If a hydraulic pump was added to the back of the tractor, on the PTO, the PTO would always have to be activated to have hydraulic power.

  • @jecceworks
    @jecceworks 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    It may be difficult to find a compact 7.5kW (or 10hp) motor, they usually are the size of two footballs, roughly...

  • @sdttnkara
    @sdttnkara 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Colin furze did use battery powered hydraulic power unit for his project. You don't have to use original pump.

  • @AndreR241
    @AndreR241 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can't you just use some of-the-shelf electric hydraulic pump with a similar rating and power it over a second inverter?

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, but a 10 HP electric motor is quite large and heavy. It would take up a fair amount of space and weight.

  • @DarthAlec
    @DarthAlec 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nossa,esse trator já está virando um filme e está mais pra "Á espera de um milagre ".
    Assisti uns cinco vídeos e nada.

  • @ThalassTKynn
    @ThalassTKynn 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you ran the pump off the traction motor wouldn't you lose hydraulic power if you're stopped? Having separate traction and hydraulic motors sounds better to me.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No. Just push in the clutch and take it out of gear. The motor would keep spinning, just like the engine would.

    • @ThalassTKynn
      @ThalassTKynn 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX haha I forgot about the gearbox! *facepalm*

  • @haugstule
    @haugstule 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    i suppose you could use a weaker but faster brushless if you do the math and make a big pulley for the pump and a small one for the motor.

  • @jusb1066
    @jusb1066 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Of course they make electric hydraulic pump so that might be the way to go

  • @nunyabiznez8120
    @nunyabiznez8120 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The lower end high torque of the DC would be a better fit. Also, it would run the hydraulics better due to it being used with hydraulics in the fork lift.

  • @yumcha16
    @yumcha16 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ide run the big DC motor bro. apart from no regen its the perfect motor. would make for a nice simple package, which is what you want on a tractor.

  • @RarestAce
    @RarestAce 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What about using a stand alone electric hydraulic pump with similar specs to the factory pump that would make life easier for you.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Most of the off-the-shelf 12V pumps are only about 1 gallon per minute.
      The pump on the tractor is rated for 10 GPM.

    • @kschleic9053
      @kschleic9053 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BenjaminNelsonX what about off the shelf 120vac pumps? EDIT: nevermind... 10HP 240V 10GPM power packs cost 6000$... You can build better than that!

  • @ElectricNed
    @ElectricNed 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hmm. I think you're going to run into trouble getting an AC motor and controller for that hydraulic pump within a realistic price range. The equipment is out there, but not generally for sale to the public and very expensive.
    The Leaf doesn't have a tailshaft, no- but perhaps you could access the other end of the shaft more easily than you could come up with a whole separate power system for the hydraulic pump. You're going to be making an adapter plate for the output end, maybe you can pull the housing off the other end and see if it'd be practical to replace it with something that let you access the shaft. At least pull that cover off and see what you'd be working with.
    Alternatively you could go with 24v. A lot of commercial equipment is 24v and there are DC/DCs out there for it.That halves the current to ~300A, and chances are good it'd only be that high intermittently- lifting a full load, eg. but essentially zero when it's being carried. You'd need good LV batteries to handle the surge.

  • @dtec30
    @dtec30 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    fforklift electric hydraulic pump?

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Certainly that would be one solution. A 48V motor and pump would take up not a small amount of space, and I'd have to convert from pack voltage down to 48V. That's not a common and cheap DC/DC converter to do that.

  • @DougJessee
    @DougJessee 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I worked on a helicopter with extensive hydraulics, but if you are going with a clutch on the electric motor, why not just put a gear on the back shaft to feed accessories? This would a gear on the output shaft, before you get to the flywheel/clutch. I might require some kind of extension to the output shaft, but it seems like that would be easier than trying to add another inverter and electric motor just for the hydraulic pump.
    Then you can have the tach and hydraulic motor off that gear (and any other accessories)? Just because it used to be on the front does not mean it needs to stay that way.
    If you do not go that way, just find an electric hydraulic pump that matches the pressure and flow rate to the mechanically driven pump you have now. Looks like that pump sells for a bit of money new, so it still should get some money used. If the owner will let you, sell the engine and hydraulic pump, buy an electric hydraulic pump and move on.

  • @camdawg9805
    @camdawg9805 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    We're ready for the next vid lol.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yep! Always easier to watch them than to make them!

  • @ycmdill
    @ycmdill 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just use the EV motor to drive a larger hydraulic pump and hydraulic motor to drive the tractor transmission. Makes the task simpler, just plumbing.

  • @JeremyAkersInAustin
    @JeremyAkersInAustin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You might want to double check the ratings on that pump. Max PSI and Max GPM are often not able to be achieved at the same time. IE: At 10 GPM you may only be able to sustain 600 PSI and you can probably only hit 1200 PSI when the oil flow is almost stopped or close to 0 GPM. It would be nice if you could find a comparable tractor with a loader and see what PSI is typically seen when lifting typical sized loads. I doubt you would often see PSI numbers that high. My Farmall Super H has the belly driven pump and it only achieves around 800 PSI and that's pretty much only at 0 GPM when the cylinders are physically blocked from moving. And even with those low numbers my rear 3 point hitch will very easily lift enough weight at the rear of the tractor to lift the front axle of the tractor off the ground with ease.
    So I think the power requirement you entered is the power required to achieve both max PSI and GPM at the same time which is probably major overkill. You would likely be able to get away with a lot less. Also: More modern loader tractors of this size have pumps that only deliver around 7 GPM, so you don't necessarily need 10 GPM to operate a loader. The difference is that other tractors have a separate pump for power steering. Unless you plan to be steering hard and trying to lift a load on the loader at the same time you will probably never need the full 10 GPM.
    On that thought: What if you used two motors/pumps? Power steering only needs about 3-4 GPM max and not much pressure so you could probably drive a power steering pump with 1 HP AC motor. (Maybe you could even use a power steering pump from a LEAF to achieve the desired voltage?)
    Removing power steering from the main pump should drop your flow requirements considerably. For the rest of the hydraulics you'd probably only ever need 800 PSI at maybe 5 GPM simultaneously which brings you down to under 3 HP needed for that motor.
    The advantage to this set up is you wouldn't need to worry about priority control. With a single pump driving both steering and hydraulics you'll find that the power steering can become ineffective when the pump is being used for other hydraulic loads if there isn't a priority control valve to prevent too much flow from going to the other hydraulics instead of the power steering. With separate pumps and motors you have dedicated flow for both systems so using one won't have any impact on the other.

    • @JeremyAkersInAustin
      @JeremyAkersInAustin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      This might be an interesting option as well:
      www.target-hydraulics.com/hydraulic-pump-motor/
      This company has an electric hydraulic pump that can be driven from DC or AC at a variety of voltages. From the link: "Our wide range of AC motors voltage come with AC110V,AC220v,240v,AC380V,AC415V, single-phase and three-phase; electric power from 0.37kw up to 3Kw."
      I don't see any prices mentioned though, could be quite expensive.

    • @JeremyAkersInAustin
      @JeremyAkersInAustin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Something else I've been thinking about: The gas motor you removed from that tractor has a max RPM of 1750 RPM. It turns quite slow. The Farmall H it replaced only turned 1650 RPM, so you could get away with an even lower RPM. The LEAF motor turns at up to 10,400 RPM or about 29 RPM per volt. (10,400 RPM / 360 volts = 28.9 RPM/volt)
      At 29 RPM per volt you only need to supply that motor about 60 volts to achieve the desired 1650-1750 RPM to "match" the RPM of the gas motor. (Unless you're keeping the reduction gear in the motor? Maybe I should go back and re-watch the motor tear down video because I don't remember if you are keeping that or not.)
      If you connected the motor direct without the reduction gear, and powered it at 60 volts (or 16 LEAF cells in series) then that would be a voltage that you could easily find 5-10 HP motors to power that hydraulic pump.

    • @JeremyAkersInAustin
      @JeremyAkersInAustin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I just came across this article which specifically goes into detail on sizing a hydraulic pump motor for electric power vs gas/diesel: www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/fluid-power-basics/pumps/article/21118764/hydraulic-power-units

  • @28cruzin
    @28cruzin 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm a strong beleiver in the "KISS" principle. "Keep it simple, stupid." Since you are using the clutch you have to use the flywheel. Use the flywheel ring gear to drive the pump. Perhaps you can use the starter motor port to mounthe pump. There may be room under the electric motor to mount the pump through the adapter plate. Using the forklift motor is too old tech and less eficient.

  • @SirTragain
    @SirTragain 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm enjoying your adventure but I believe you are over thinking the application. The pump doesn't need to be timed with the Leaf motor. If you really want a tachometer; the Leaf motor as you pointed out in a earlier video has a resolver/speed sensor built in and it would be more accurate. The larger sprocket (a proper term) is what drives the cam shaft which in turn via lifters, push rods and rocker arms operate the intake and exhaust valves. Each of the sprockets have a timing mark. These dimples are for aligning the crank and cam shafts for proper ignition timing and in turn they are using the pump as an extension to the distributor and the distributor is driving the tachometer. So that tachometer is mechanically driven verses an electrical driven one. If your intent is to not drive that hydraulic pump with the Nissan Leaf motor then it does not need a tachometer; a pressure gauge should be sufficient and more practical. Going under the assumption that you are trying to use the parts you have on hand and not just buy an electric hydraulic pump you could maybe incorporate where the starter once was mounted for the pump and drive gear before mounting the motor to the bell housing. I'm sure you are still contemplating how the clutch and flywheel will be mounted. Whether with a Lovejoy connection or a splined adaptor shaft; that area between the motor and bell housing would be the optimal location for utilizing the Leaf motor to drive the hydraulic pump.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No, the pump doesn't need to be timed to the electric drive motor. But if it is driven by the drive motor, and that is running at about the same speed as the original engine, then the hydraulic pump is also driven appropriately.
      Being able to reuse the tachometer/speedometer would just be a nice side benefit if I reuse the original pump anyways, driven by the drive motor.

    • @SirTragain
      @SirTragain 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree using the traction motor to drive the hydraulic pump is the way to go. It just wasn't clear to me on what direction your build was going when you introduced the idea of a second electrical motor to drive the pump. Usually engine speed is increased for such operations. I was wondering what the optimal rpm of the Leaf motor would be for minimum power draw on the battery pack under load and what the rpm of the hydraulic pump would be to produce adequate psi for the bucket. Obviously at a 1:1 ratio of the ICE powerplant the tachometer becomes very useful. I apologize for the length of my prior post and only explained in detail the timing for those that didn't know the functionality of those gears.

  • @deathincarnatesplace
    @deathincarnatesplace 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    turn alternator into motor and then use same type alternator to connect direct to lose the money on power control units. (throttle) then use small electric motor to turn the alternator to make the power to make the motor run and you only need one 48 volt throttle control unit to power four motor like the new truck coming out. then use a 55 amps alternator to be turned by a 6 volt 4 amps motor to turn this one to power all four motor and then power the rest any way you want.

  • @0MoTheG
    @0MoTheG 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    So that big motor was 30kW and the tiny pump is 7.5kW ?
    Goes to show how much more force is in the oil compared to the burning gas.

    • @jusb1066
      @jusb1066 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      One is producing power the other is just using it, same with the electric motors vs gasoline,

  • @tristanchone6925
    @tristanchone6925 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi, great video... again !!! Your hydraulic pump will take 10 hp only if you use it at full capacity otherwise it just cunsume to balance friction. Unless you will use hydraulic devices like log splitter, etc. I think you can mount a smaller motor.
    A french farmer who is sorry for his language !

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Part of the plan for this project is that there is a front end loader that is going to be mounted back on this tractor. That will make heavy use of the hydraulics.

    • @tristanchone6925
      @tristanchone6925 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      That is what i thought tris attention when i rethink about your project on my tractor. Tris is definively a project that i will do on one of mine in thé future. I really enjoy the serie. Thanks again

  • @SheepShearerMike
    @SheepShearerMike 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You could use a hydraulic pump that runs off the PTO with a through shaft so you can use the PTO to power other implements like this:
    vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=254421232782&category=48718&pm=1&ds=0&t=1582275796000&ver=0&cspheader=1
    Or, can you fit that pump between the motor and the inner drive shat that powers the PTO which is spinning all the time?

  • @TheBeastUponTheLolz
    @TheBeastUponTheLolz 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you should just find a 10hp dedicated electric hydraulic pump from the likes of an electric forklift. It would be more modern and likely more reliable than hacking it together with a second inverter and a second motor to drive it.

  • @hansaya
    @hansaya 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    You should be able to find a ready made hydraulic pump from a battery operated industrial equipment and ditch the pump that came with the tractor.

  • @alanswanson5642
    @alanswanson5642 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I personally wouldn't use that pump. Nothing wrong with it but it is very expensive to replace to the tune of about $600. There are much cheaper pumps that will work just fine for the loader and three point hitch. I mentioned in another video too you can run a hydraulic pump off the pto.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I definitely want to keep the PTO free.
      Here's a forklift pump motor I found: th-cam.com/video/K_ax7YcSZhA/w-d-xo.html
      I custom machined a part to build an adapter so that I could connect it to the tractor. Seems to work pretty well.
      th-cam.com/video/Y0ovdUvEM8g/w-d-xo.html

  • @pl5624
    @pl5624 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Pump is shot if it's leaking fluid.

  • @kokodin5895
    @kokodin5895 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    you don't need to count the teeth in intermiduate gear, you just need to know how many revolutions it makes per single krank rotation and you can do the math then if you count pump revolutions
    you didn't even have to disasemble anything , just bar the engine over few times
    but of course your method works too
    funniest part is, just becayse distributor was on the back end you could just assume it was 1:1

  • @colinhamer6506
    @colinhamer6506 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    just get a transit tiper pump

  • @michaelborron1060
    @michaelborron1060 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm having a hard time watching this video. I guess people has to learn somewhere. When you need special tools, you buy them or make them.

  • @cuepusher2504
    @cuepusher2504 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    "12v 600a" sounds like a starter motor to me

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And starter motors are NOT designed to be run continuous. They only run for a few seconds and then have a long time to cool down.

    • @BenjaminNelsonX
      @BenjaminNelsonX  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Paolo G Could it run a front end loader for an afternoon?

  • @daleolson3506
    @daleolson3506 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Get a hydraulic pump from a log splitter.,and adapt it.

  • @corvairspider1
    @corvairspider1 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Umm,not to be a smart@ss, the distributor(connected to pump) has to turn crankshaft speed

  • @dannesundberg4076
    @dannesundberg4076 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    a smaler piston pump so you dont ned so match energi.

  • @douglaschell1132
    @douglaschell1132 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    you dont need the hydraulics all the time. you could use the starter motor . you don Need that HP NONRETUNE VAVLES. this could be dont latter on .