I have a subscription to both SYSTM and TrainerRoad (and currently, Zwift, too). I started with the Sufferfest several years ago, because I love the videos, and they really motivate me. That said, my current season is with TrainerRoad, and I've been really happy with their adaptive training method, and I've made great strides as I come back from a layoff. I plan to try next season with SYSTM to see how that goes. There are aspects of each I like better than the other (I truly wish they would merge and integrate because it would be ideal). For example, the strength and flexibility integration of SYSTM is really nice and I like the Sufferfest (and other videos) in the plater, but it's hard to adapt your training plan around life (no way natively to create workouts, and no integrated analysis to give you recommended changes) and you can't take workouts outside. TrainerRoad's adaptive training is great for when life gets in the way, but staring at a workout graph in the workout player as you slowly plod through a 2-hour interval session is mind-numbingly boring. My solution so far is to create ZWO files matching the TrainierRoad workouts and send them to Wahoo RGT. There, I can ride a virtual course (like in Zwift) and do the TrainerRoad WO. The downside is that you have to match the workout manually in TrainerRoad, but it's not terribly difficult. I'm not sure how the AI looks at this, but I trust it would be similar to importing an outdoor workout. Integrating yoga and strength training is harder, as there isn't really a way to track this in TrainerRoad... so, I have to rely on a SYSTM cycling plan that integrates yoga/strength and just ignore the cycling part... This means two WO calendars. I suspect each will start to incorporate capabilities similar to the other, but I really love both. So, as long as I can afford it, I will be using both of these. Zwift is great, too, but doesn't seem to offer most of what I love about both SYSTM and TrainerRoad, while SYSTM (through Wahoo RGT) gives me pretty much everything I was using in Zwift... So, I'm saying goodbye (for now) to Zwift.
So how do you create the TR into zwo cos I am in the same boat as you it seems but just took a month of zwift for the pure fact it’s more engaging when riding amongst others than on your own or with bots
TR user here, though I did a SYSTM trial a few months back. I like to train outdoors mainly and supplement that with some indoor sessions but only when it's not possible to go out. For this reason TR blows it out the water for me - don't get me wrong, indoor training has its place in terms of building strength and fitness but I personally feel too much of it comes at the cost of neglecting so many skills that will actually make you a faster cyclist. Adaptive training has really changed the game, it feels like you're on a constant progression path with the variability of workouts changing sometimes daily based on performance. To add to that, it then takes the data from my other rides (commuting, club, social) and incorporates that in to my progressions. I'm a bit of a data nerd so being able to hit the analyse tab after a ride and really get in to the training analytics is gold. Indoors... Maybe I'm a bit of a workout sadist but I prefer the blocks, data and feel to distraction. I don't want to distract myself from the psychological side of digging deep as I feel that's a whole other layer to becoming a better and faster athlete. Also the community resource that TR puts out on a consistent basis is worth its weight in gold with constant community interaction. I can't see how's there's any better (for me), worth every penny
50yr old slightly above average cycling enthusiast here. I started using SYSTM the first week of May. My Full Monty results were 15w lower than Zwift. After 6 weeks the Half Monty results increased FTP by 6w. I enjoy the videos and the variety of workouts keeps it interesting. I used the phone app to try and do an endurance workout on the road and found it impossible with all the variables of stop lights and elevation changes. Now I workout on the trainer and keep outdoor rides for testing my progress.
Ugh, that would be tough to do for sure on a phone. TR outdoor workouts account for stops and when to start an interval. But definitely riding indoors is so much easier in most cases. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Trainer Road for me. Adaptive training and AI ftp was a huge help after a bad accident. With other platforms I would have had to guess my sudden lower ftp but Trainer Road just knew. I wouldn’t have been able to do an ftp test. Also love doing my interval workouts outside.
Hi!! And thanks for this videos!! Currently my favourite is SYSTM. Since March I swapped from Zwift to SYSTM, because it is more suitable for me. It gives me the opportunity not only to use the trainer, also in my opinion, the SYSTM hit is to include the strength training and yoga!! I would like in the future that SYSTM consider my weekend training (with Garmin) in the road. Thanks again for your great job!!
I’ve just started on a year with SYSTM. I see it as a platform with huge potential but it all depends on how quickly Wahoo fill in the gaps that currently exist. The name SYSTM gives you the idea that it brings everything together into a system but it doesn’t. If you ride on RGT (which is part of the subscription) that isn’t (yet) factored into your training load. If you exercise outdoors then that doesn’t exist either. I know Wahoo sells indoor trainers but that is a massive omission at present. I’d definitely like to see some on-the-fly FTP assessment from it. The half monty test doesn’t work for me because I’m aerobically good but not super strong so it’s estimates of my short interval power are way too high. I don’t really want to put myself through a full monty, to get those values, there should be another way. As someone who cycles, runs and rows, I would like to see something equivalent of Garmin’s training load and recovery score in there and to have mixed training plans for those of us who are just working on all around fitness than solely seeking a better FTP. I’m probably being unrealistic hoping for all of this but it shows there’s many ways that Wahoo could expand the platform. Despite these things, I am happy with my SYSTM subscription, it’s good value and has plenty of variety, I just hope that Wahoo keep pushing forward with it.
Totally agree. Im a bit anoyed that if I ride on RGT or the Road Systm doensnt recognise it...yet. When it does it will be great. The Strength, yoga etc are all fantastic
Using TrainerRoad on a PC, changing of mode and intensity is much simpler, just a keystroke. On the PC you can also put TR at the bottom of the screen and watch a video, watch a bike race, or even run Zwift at the same time.
I agree I run TR over zwift - reduced to bottom of the screen. I like this because I can now do workouts whilst also doing events in zwift! You can also watch a film, documentary etc whilst working out - I am surprised you didn't mention that! Also, on PC you can chance from erg to resistance in one hit!
Thanks for your review. For me it's The Sufferfest all the way (started around 4 years ago), and so far haven't ventured much outside it in SystmX. I suppose after riding over 13,000km through 545 videos i guess I like to think of myself as a Sufferlandrian. But last year i did buy a new bike (N+1) and have managed to do some outdoor riding too thanks to friends from work - it took some persuading to get me off the Kickr
I would love too, but i don't think my knees would cope with the load. I've managed 5 videos back to back, but with the shortest total riding period around 8.5 hours (plus 10 mins rest in-between) i think its too much for me. However i still toy with the idea. I'm building up my outside riding at the moment, got my first 100km ride a couple of weeks ago, with aim of doing 100 miles ride this year :-)
I like TR running at the bottom with Zwift for something to look at. I do like the option of magic roads. I can import my club rides, crit courses and road races and ride them all winter training for the next season. That sounds pretty darn cool. Would be awesome if Wahoo bought Strava and had access to all the gpx files :)
Many thanks, I have been waiting for this video for a long time. I use SYSTM since a year and while I am very happy and impressed by the app, I do want to try TR one day too. I like SYSTM’s approach to provide strength straining and yoga too, which is so important especially for ageing bodies and injury prevention. I would have appreciated your personal views too - more qualitative opinion than just comparison of features. Tariq, I am interested in your subjective opinion too. It’s your channel and your take is relevant! Once again, great video
Personally, I use TrainerRoad. I like its Adaptive training. Even though it’s still missing a few features but I like where it is heading and its simplicity. I just need an app to tell me what to do and TR seems to do that well. If I have a coach, I would definitely stick with Zwift only as I like their integration with TrainingPeaks and workout player.
@@SmartBikeTrainers thanks for the prompt reply and sharing your preference. Another point that could be useful is the option to use SYSTM or TR at the same time with Zwift. Having done few 12 weeks training plans on SYSTM, I don’t want to watch the same motivational video again, so I run the SYSTM workout on my MacBook and Zwift on Apple TV at the same time. SYSTM controls the smart trainer and Zwift receives the power and cadence data. I believe the same applies for TR and Zwift.
I have a TR subscription and zwift and am trialling SYSTM after having all the sufferfest videos from back in the day when you bought them. I like zwift for the mere fact your mind is taken away from the pain of doing a workout and the group racing is just pure fun. Simple as that. TrainerRoad is just pure hard. Its hard to get motivated by watching blue boxes and the workouts seem always too hard and long. Yes i know i can run zwift whilst doing the workout its just the workouts are tedious. SYSTM seems to have a lot of good features and its the only one that my Garmin gives the feedback as productive. TR always says not productive...go figure? RGT would be great if there were actual people using it instead of bots. I think SYSTM represents good value for the time being and gives way more variation than TR
i was using all 3 also. but already cancelled Z especially since RGT has magic roads. anyway, i love systm for its strength and yoga sessions. The cycling videos are amazing dont get me wrong. i still love it but TR is the best in structured workouts/plans. A lot of athletes even successful ones use TR. But anyway, ill still continue to have both cause its a lot cheaper than havin a personal coach. 😓😅
Can you clarify something? So, if I go out and ride my MTB or gravel bike and record it on Garmin or Strava, can I then import that into trainer roads? Will it then adapt my plan given that outdoor activity? That’s what is missing with SYSTM. I like the balanced aspect of SYSTM, but I still do a good chunk of my training outside…
Currently unstructured outside workouts are not supported by Adaptive Training. However, Outside Workouts that are part of your training plan are supported by Adaptive Training. See this article for details support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404974155675-How-to-Use-Outside-Workouts-with-Adaptive-Training
Do you prefer to use only the iPad? Or are you using the iPad for control and also projecting to larger monitor? Maybe you have a video which discusses your setup. I am working with the Wahoo Kickr.
When using the iPad, I just use the iPad instead of projecting to the tv. I just find the picture quality to be subpar when projecting to a big screen that way.
Hello. i recently got a Schwinn 570u.. I intended to use it with wahoo fitness to track my training but unfortunately it does not connet at all.. any similar free app suggestions? thanks.
Does your Schwann bike broadcasts power or speed in Bluetooth? If it at minimum it broadcasts speed, then you should be able to use it with Zwift. If it broadcasts power, then you should be able to use it with RGT or Zwift.
Do you think zwift is as good as trainer road or wahoo? I personally love Zwift for racing, doing my own thing and for their own structures workouts based on Watopia and other places
Their workout plans are not as good as TR or Systm. But if you know what you are doing as far as structured training, Zwift is plenty enough and IMO, they have a better workout player.
What you don't mention is the price. Trainerroad is by a wide margin the most expensive of all the indoor monthly subscriptions and to be honest when you look at everything wahoo systm gives you and also zwift at around 2/3rds the cost of trainerroad its a bit of a joke really. Used trainerroad for years and like many, many others I experienced major plateuing quickly followed by burnout on several occasions. Also a screen full of bars with no other options but to set up your own screen for TH-cam videos (or ironically run zwift alongside for distraction) is nuts to me in 2022.
Yes, TrainerRoad is pretty much the most expensive out there as I mentioned the prices towards the end of the video. There are certain features that makes TR unique on its own and no other app offers so its value depends on how much you value these unique features. Thank you for the feedback and watching 🙏🏼
I'm a TR user and I agree with you. I'm still using it because of the legacy pricing. At the current price, I'd actually would go somewhere else to be honest.
@@pointbreak2811 useful feedback. Love the adaptive training in TR but I have been training long enough to make my own adjustments. Leaning towards Systm but will 100% use the TR trial period
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I have a subscription to both SYSTM and TrainerRoad (and currently, Zwift, too). I started with the Sufferfest several years ago, because I love the videos, and they really motivate me. That said, my current season is with TrainerRoad, and I've been really happy with their adaptive training method, and I've made great strides as I come back from a layoff. I plan to try next season with SYSTM to see how that goes.
There are aspects of each I like better than the other (I truly wish they would merge and integrate because it would be ideal). For example, the strength and flexibility integration of SYSTM is really nice and I like the Sufferfest (and other videos) in the plater, but it's hard to adapt your training plan around life (no way natively to create workouts, and no integrated analysis to give you recommended changes) and you can't take workouts outside. TrainerRoad's adaptive training is great for when life gets in the way, but staring at a workout graph in the workout player as you slowly plod through a 2-hour interval session is mind-numbingly boring.
My solution so far is to create ZWO files matching the TrainierRoad workouts and send them to Wahoo RGT. There, I can ride a virtual course (like in Zwift) and do the TrainerRoad WO. The downside is that you have to match the workout manually in TrainerRoad, but it's not terribly difficult. I'm not sure how the AI looks at this, but I trust it would be similar to importing an outdoor workout. Integrating yoga and strength training is harder, as there isn't really a way to track this in TrainerRoad... so, I have to rely on a SYSTM cycling plan that integrates yoga/strength and just ignore the cycling part... This means two WO calendars.
I suspect each will start to incorporate capabilities similar to the other, but I really love both. So, as long as I can afford it, I will be using both of these. Zwift is great, too, but doesn't seem to offer most of what I love about both SYSTM and TrainerRoad, while SYSTM (through Wahoo RGT) gives me pretty much everything I was using in Zwift... So, I'm saying goodbye (for now) to Zwift.
So how do you create the TR into zwo cos I am in the same boat as you it seems but just took a month of zwift for the pure fact it’s more engaging when riding amongst others than on your own or with bots
I wish sufferfest cussed you out though lol
TR user here, though I did a SYSTM trial a few months back. I like to train outdoors mainly and supplement that with some indoor sessions but only when it's not possible to go out. For this reason TR blows it out the water for me - don't get me wrong, indoor training has its place in terms of building strength and fitness but I personally feel too much of it comes at the cost of neglecting so many skills that will actually make you a faster cyclist.
Adaptive training has really changed the game, it feels like you're on a constant progression path with the variability of workouts changing sometimes daily based on performance. To add to that, it then takes the data from my other rides (commuting, club, social) and incorporates that in to my progressions. I'm a bit of a data nerd so being able to hit the analyse tab after a ride and really get in to the training analytics is gold.
Indoors... Maybe I'm a bit of a workout sadist but I prefer the blocks, data and feel to distraction. I don't want to distract myself from the psychological side of digging deep as I feel that's a whole other layer to becoming a better and faster athlete.
Also the community resource that TR puts out on a consistent basis is worth its weight in gold with constant community interaction. I can't see how's there's any better (for me), worth every penny
50yr old slightly above average cycling enthusiast here. I started using SYSTM the first week of May. My Full Monty results were 15w lower than Zwift. After 6 weeks the Half Monty results increased FTP by 6w. I enjoy the videos and the variety of workouts keeps it interesting. I used the phone app to try and do an endurance workout on the road and found it impossible with all the variables of stop lights and elevation changes. Now I workout on the trainer and keep outdoor rides for testing my progress.
Ugh, that would be tough to do for sure on a phone. TR outdoor workouts account for stops and when to start an interval. But definitely riding indoors is so much easier in most cases. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Trainer Road for me. Adaptive training and AI ftp was a huge help after a bad accident. With other platforms I would have had to guess my sudden lower ftp but Trainer Road just knew. I wouldn’t have been able to do an ftp test. Also love doing my interval workouts outside.
Hi!! And thanks for this videos!!
Currently my favourite is SYSTM. Since March I swapped from Zwift to SYSTM, because it is more suitable for me. It gives me the opportunity not only to use the trainer, also in my opinion, the SYSTM hit is to include the strength training and yoga!! I would like in the future that SYSTM consider my weekend training (with Garmin) in the road. Thanks again for your great job!!
I think Wahoo would want to see Systm on their head units and others so hopefully we will see outside workouts soon. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
1 year later..just checking in to see if Systm offer outdoor workouts yet?
Glad to see you pulling up the half training plan. That half IM has your name all over it.
Great video, learned a lot
Maybe a few months too late 😂
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
I’ve just started on a year with SYSTM. I see it as a platform with huge potential but it all depends on how quickly Wahoo fill in the gaps that currently exist. The name SYSTM gives you the idea that it brings everything together into a system but it doesn’t. If you ride on RGT (which is part of the subscription) that isn’t (yet) factored into your training load. If you exercise outdoors then that doesn’t exist either. I know Wahoo sells indoor trainers but that is a massive omission at present. I’d definitely like to see some on-the-fly FTP assessment from it. The half monty test doesn’t work for me because I’m aerobically good but not super strong so it’s estimates of my short interval power are way too high. I don’t really want to put myself through a full monty, to get those values, there should be another way. As someone who cycles, runs and rows, I would like to see something equivalent of Garmin’s training load and recovery score in there and to have mixed training plans for those of us who are just working on all around fitness than solely seeking a better FTP. I’m probably being unrealistic hoping for all of this but it shows there’s many ways that Wahoo could expand the platform. Despite these things, I am happy with my SYSTM subscription, it’s good value and has plenty of variety, I just hope that Wahoo keep pushing forward with it.
Totally agree. Im a bit anoyed that if I ride on RGT or the Road Systm doensnt recognise it...yet. When it does it will be great. The Strength, yoga etc are all fantastic
Using TrainerRoad on a PC, changing of mode and intensity is much simpler, just a keystroke. On the PC you can also put TR at the bottom of the screen and watch a video, watch a bike race, or even run Zwift at the same time.
I agree I run TR over zwift - reduced to bottom of the screen. I like this because I can now do workouts whilst also doing events in zwift! You can also watch a film, documentary etc whilst working out - I am surprised you didn't mention that! Also, on PC you can chance from erg to resistance in one hit!
Thank you so much for reviewing both products! You made it an easy decision.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for your review.
For me it's The Sufferfest all the way (started around 4 years ago), and so far haven't ventured much outside it in SystmX. I suppose after riding over 13,000km through 545 videos i guess I like to think of myself as a Sufferlandrian.
But last year i did buy a new bike (N+1) and have managed to do some outdoor riding too thanks to friends from work - it took some persuading to get me off the Kickr
Have you done the Knight of Sufferlandia challenge?
support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/4406074947090-How-to-become-a-Knight-of-Sufferlandria
I would love too, but i don't think my knees would cope with the load. I've managed 5 videos back to back, but with the shortest total riding period around 8.5 hours (plus 10 mins rest in-between) i think its too much for me. However i still toy with the idea.
I'm building up my outside riding at the moment, got my first 100km ride a couple of weeks ago, with aim of doing 100 miles ride this year :-)
I like TR running at the bottom with Zwift for something to look at. I do like the option of magic roads. I can import my club rides, crit courses and road races and ride them all winter training for the next season. That sounds pretty darn cool. Would be awesome if Wahoo bought Strava and had access to all the gpx files :)
great review and helpful... thank you for all the work that went into this !!
Glad you found it helpful. Thank you for watching 🙏🏼
Great content and comparison thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Many thanks, I have been waiting for this video for a long time. I use SYSTM since a year and while I am very happy and impressed by the app, I do want to try TR one day too. I like SYSTM’s approach to provide strength straining and yoga too, which is so important especially for ageing bodies and injury prevention. I would have appreciated your personal views too - more qualitative opinion than just comparison of features. Tariq, I am interested in your subjective opinion too. It’s your channel and your take is relevant! Once again, great video
Personally, I use TrainerRoad. I like its Adaptive training. Even though it’s still missing a few features but I like where it is heading and its simplicity. I just need an app to tell me what to do and TR seems to do that well. If I have a coach, I would definitely stick with Zwift only as I like their integration with TrainingPeaks and workout player.
I agree that your personal opinion and preferences are important for us followers!
@@SmartBikeTrainers thanks for the prompt reply and sharing your preference. Another point that could be useful is the option to use SYSTM or TR at the same time with Zwift. Having done few 12 weeks training plans on SYSTM, I don’t want to watch the same motivational video again, so I run the SYSTM workout on my MacBook and Zwift on Apple TV at the same time. SYSTM controls the smart trainer and Zwift receives the power and cadence data. I believe the same applies for TR and Zwift.
Be good to see a new video now
TrainerRoad for life!!!
Prefect, best quality of the picture!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I have a TR subscription and zwift and am trialling SYSTM after having all the sufferfest videos from back in the day when you bought them. I like zwift for the mere fact your mind is taken away from the pain of doing a workout and the group racing is just pure fun. Simple as that. TrainerRoad is just pure hard. Its hard to get motivated by watching blue boxes and the workouts seem always too hard and long. Yes i know i can run zwift whilst doing the workout its just the workouts are tedious. SYSTM seems to have a lot of good features and its the only one that my Garmin gives the feedback as productive. TR always says not productive...go figure? RGT would be great if there were actual people using it instead of bots. I think SYSTM represents good value for the time being and gives way more variation than TR
TR user here. you forgot to mention TR has group workouts that you can do with your friends WITH BUILT IN VIDEO CALL!
i was using all 3 also. but already cancelled Z especially since RGT has magic roads. anyway, i love systm for its strength and yoga sessions. The cycling videos are amazing dont get me wrong. i still love it but TR is the best in structured workouts/plans. A lot of athletes even successful ones use TR. But anyway, ill still continue to have both cause its a lot cheaper than havin a personal coach. 😓😅
Definitely much cheaper than a coach 😂
Thanks did your feedback and watching 🙏🏼
Okay 👍 time for an update. Wahoo without RGT and zwift ad trainer road
I meant training peaks 😂
Could be interesting once System has incorporated all training into RGT
For sure. Going to be interesting for sure. Thanks for watching 🙏🏼
Can you clarify something? So, if I go out and ride my MTB or gravel bike and record it on Garmin or Strava, can I then import that into trainer roads? Will it then adapt my plan given that outdoor activity? That’s what is missing with SYSTM. I like the balanced aspect of SYSTM, but I still do a good chunk of my training outside…
Currently unstructured outside workouts are not supported by Adaptive Training.
However, Outside Workouts that are part of your training plan are supported by Adaptive Training.
See this article for details support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404974155675-How-to-Use-Outside-Workouts-with-Adaptive-Training
@@SmartBikeTrainers is there a program or app that handles unstructured workouts? For anyone riding with a group, that would be a consideration..
Do you prefer to use only the iPad? Or are you using the iPad for control and also projecting to larger monitor? Maybe you have a video which discusses your setup. I am working with the Wahoo Kickr.
When using the iPad, I just use the iPad instead of projecting to the tv. I just find the picture quality to be subpar when projecting to a big screen that way.
Hello. i recently got a Schwinn 570u.. I intended to use it with wahoo fitness to track my training but unfortunately it does not connet at all.. any similar free app suggestions? thanks.
Does your Schwann bike broadcasts power or speed in Bluetooth? If it at minimum it broadcasts speed, then you should be able to use it with Zwift. If it broadcasts power, then you should be able to use it with RGT or Zwift.
Hi, I understando SYSTM already allows to take workouts outdoors, is this correct?
That’s correct. Currently only works with Wahoo Elemnt bike computers.
@@SmartBikeTrainers Do you think SYSTM will include AI soon to compete with TrainerRoad?
TrainerRoad does not tailor your workouts to only FTP. Their Progression Levels perform the same function.
How do progression levels work?
Does this work on a Chromebook? I don't see it can be paired on apple tv
No they don’t work on the Chromebook operating system.
@@SmartBikeTrainers thank you!
👌
Do you think zwift is as good as trainer road or wahoo? I personally love Zwift for racing, doing my own thing and for their own structures workouts based on Watopia and other places
Their workout plans are not as good as TR or Systm. But if you know what you are doing as far as structured training, Zwift is plenty enough and IMO, they have a better workout player.
TrainerRoad also has a group workout so you can ride with teammates over the winter months without hauling your bike anywhere!
Do you think SYSTM will include AI soon to compete with TrainerRoad?
I’m not sure what their development roadmap is but they gonna have to do something if they want to remain competitive and relevant in this market.
TR 🎉
What you don't mention is the price.
Trainerroad is by a wide margin the most expensive of all the indoor monthly subscriptions and to be honest when you look at everything wahoo systm gives you and also zwift at around 2/3rds the cost of trainerroad its a bit of a joke really.
Used trainerroad for years and like many, many others I experienced major plateuing quickly followed by burnout on several occasions. Also a screen full of bars with no other options but to set up your own screen for TH-cam videos (or ironically run zwift alongside for distraction) is nuts to me in 2022.
Yes, TrainerRoad is pretty much the most expensive out there as I mentioned the prices towards the end of the video. There are certain features that makes TR unique on its own and no other app offers so its value depends on how much you value these unique features. Thank you for the feedback and watching 🙏🏼
I'm a TR user and I agree with you. I'm still using it because of the legacy pricing. At the current price, I'd actually would go somewhere else to be honest.
@@pointbreak2811 useful feedback. Love the adaptive training in TR but I have been training long enough to make my own adjustments. Leaning towards Systm but will 100% use the TR trial period
@@pointbreak2811i have done just that. 33% more than System X doesn’t work for me