A calculator would be awesome. I have been struggling for about a year now and all signs are pointing to RED-S. Thank you for this clear and concise explanation!
Hi TrainerRoad - funny story: I am in the video at 4:14 in the stock footage haha. I also just finished my MPH in nutrition in dietetics and am an RD who works in eating disorder treatment. Happy to see you bring awareness to REDs! Just a note - would always recommend adding a disclaimer to videos to work with your primary care provider and a dietitian (RDs with a specialization in sports will have a CSSD by their name! And eating disorder providers will likely have CEDS by their name, but not all eating disorder providers carry this credential) when attempting to lose weight. Thanks again for talking about this!
You're famous!! That's a great point on the disclaimer and an oversight on our end. We'll add this to the description and to future videos on this topic.
I've read the paper. I think the physiology is sound and as a proof of concept addressing the metabolic response to extreme caloric restriction on muscle metabolomics is interesting and of value. However a 900 calorie/d restriction is of course extreme and perhaps the responses don't necessarily reflect the responses to more modest restriction. The concluding advice I'm sure is reasonable!
Agreed. Modest caloric deficits are more sustainable and less risky. The negative impact of the common use case of skipping a meal, however, is often underestimated.
@trainerroad: but is the negative impact of skipping a meal (presuming a person has some adipose tissue they can afford to lose) really a negative? Skipping a meal (thus keeping insulin repressed and glucagon active) is an entirely different proposition than simply reducing caloric intake across all meals, but continuing to eat throughout the day. The reduction of caloric intake across a ‘normal’ meal schedule is very likely the cause of the large drop in BMR found in this study.
Great video and I like that you covered the basis on why eating enough is important for everyone and gave concrete instructions on a way to calculate macros and ideally lose fat. And yes to the calculator!
There's nothing really wrong with running a 900 calorie deficit as long as you're getting all the macros you need. I started TrainerRoad and ran a similar deficit all the way until summer, lost 30 lbs and gained 80w on my FTP in the process. Now I've stayed the same weight and have added another 35w on top of that. Just have to be smart about how you do it, don't cut out so much food that you're not getting the correct amount of protein or not enough carbs for your workouts!
@@timtaylor9590 "You can't get macros without getting calories." - This is true. However, you can eat calories that don't have the right composition of macros. For instance gummy bears are high in carbs, and low in protein, fat. If you eat the right foods, in the right quantities, you can remain in a deficit while still taking in adequate macronutrients.
@@liamcooper3836 define adequate? Isn't that the very debate being had. Sufficient macros for optimal gains. Sure gains can be made with different ratios of macros but no matter the ratio if youre getting an adequate amount then by no means would it ever be considered deficient. In my experience having a balanced macro intake is best because it's easier for the body to use carbs for fast energy, fat for longer, less intense sustained efforts, and protein for rebuilding. I wouldn't recommend using protein for energy unless you're trying to make an extreme body composition change like cutting body builders. I don't see an advantage in restricting any one macro if performance and gains are the goal. Again restricting one or two macros isn't calorie deficient, it seems the original commenter is confused or mis worded it.
I think it also depends what your current weight is. Running a calorie deficit of 900 cal if you weigh lets say 155 lbs (70 kg) is drastic. Whereas if you have an additional 30 lbs to lose which is mostly fat then losing 900 cal while maintaining a balanced diet is okay.
Great Video! Cutting the KCal in half is very drastic and it is no surprise that the bmr dropped. In terms of weight loss you shouldn't drop more than 1% of you body weight per week in order to prevent severe much muscle loss. If you you are a 125lb female that would be around 600kcal deficit (very restricted) , diet breaks would be highly recommended to reduce impact on the BMR. Increasing Protein is also a must during those restrictions in my opinion. A Calculator would be great!
I've got pounds to lose for the sake of climbing and even more importantly for health in general. I need to be in caloric deficit to lose weight, but don't want to lose muscle mass. I am eating more protein than before the path to a smaller and lighter me began, and weighting it in the AM. I have to rewatch this video!
I lost 140lbs on a severe caloric deficit almost 20yrs ago. Lost 95% of that weight in a year and have only yoyo'd about 15lbs since then. Even know though, i love in what a computer would say is about a 1000calorie deficit every day but I'm maintaining my weight at about 190-195lbs. Worked well enough to be a cat1. Some people need to do this if they were very big at one time.
@TrainerRoad the diet is still a lot harder than the training. I was big on purpose... high school all-American shot putter but a hand injury my freshman year in college ended my track career.
Ok, now I have watched the video four times to get every bit of info. Best stuff I have heard in a long time about nutrition. I like like like the defined plan. Keep this stuff up. Up there with the best content for athletes on youtube
Okay I’ve watched this a few times now. Super helpful. One question: how does fasted riding and fat-adapted training factor into this? For example, is doing the occasional 45-60 minute endurance ride first thing in the morning (fasted) doing more harm than good? Or is that still okay if you adequately replenish afterwards?
This video was super helpful. But... 90g of carbs per hour on the bike seems like a LOT. That's more than 4 gels or equivalent per hour. It makes sense in terms of energy balance, I'm just not sure how I could sustain that kind of intake, and I'm concerned about the impact on my glucose levels both during and after the ride. I'm not diabetic but I'm old enough that I don't think my insulin response is what it used to be.
As an overweight cyclist 20kg into a 35kg weight loss goal, while still trying to get faster, I am in love with the concept of a scientifically backed formula for calorie consumption. Thank you TR! My problem is much more than 30*FFM (as measured by Garmin index s2) grinds my weight loss to a halt. Is this a case of YMMV? Should I look at validating my scales FFM/body fat estimate? Could it be the distribution of macros of my diet? I use MFP for calorie tracking and tend to be on the pessimistic side of any unknowns and use a power meter to track workouts, so I’d like to think they’re not miles out
First Love Trainer Road and these kinds of Videos. Just want to point out that these studies are problematic because they do continue after the calorie deficit is over. Usually, muscle lost during weight loss comes back very easily, once the calorie deficit is eliminated, especially if eating enough protein. You can also negate most muscle loss by eating higher than normal 1 g/ pound body weight, which seems to be really good based on the literature. Depending on the individual, you can lose weight without losing much muscle or fat for 8-12 weeks before needing to take a break, it's also important not to try and lose weight too rapidly. The downside of this much protein is you have less energy available to train so this might not be ideal for endurance training. It is also recommended to maintain or reduce training volume if you are trying to lose a significant amount of weight; if you are well-trained, you should expect your performance to decrease or be maintained during this time. If you try to improve your fitness while losing weight (unless you haven't been training), you will probably fail at both. Workouts should also be lower intensity, this will help reduce the risk of injury.
Iirc, another study found that it’s possible to achieve fat loss with lean mass gain, provided that the deficit isn’t too big. I think it was somewhere in the range of nothing more than 200-300cal. Participants were able to build muscles, while also burning fats. They hypothesised that the body was actively burning fats to fuel the muscular activities. Beyond that deficit however, they found the same muscle mass loss reflected in this study.
Yep! Managing a modest deficit less than 300 calories doesn't introduce the same challenges, but it can still blunt gains and be difficult to maintain long term.
When you complete a graphic, please leave it on the screen for at least one whole second. Would love to have a few secs to take it in, think, calculate a bit, etc. Thanks in advance!
Would love a calculator for this. Our family grew this year, and focus has not been on riding/health. Put on a decent amount of weight and need to get healthy again, fast is a secondary goal. Might be nice if the calculator had some sort of way of weighting your goals (IE speed, vs winter weight loss with no cycling goals in mind)
So far I’ve used a ratio that some bodybuilders use. Basically aiming to hit 40% protein calories where carbs and fats fall into their own place. For any rides I have a decent pre ride meal. But generally don’t fuel for two hour endurance rides. I do want to start fuelling during my rides. When I initially started my deficit I saw a 20% drop in performance. But have started to make gains again with a consistent week over week increase. I’m trying to drop from 92kg to 75ish.
Very informative. Just to clarify, the calories we eat to make up what’s burned on a ride is not included within the FFMxOEA calculation (which is just for normal meals). Correct?
I’d be interested in the calculator with sliders to adjust up and down. I’m very interested in where you came up with the 65/18/17 calorie split. Also is the percentage calories or grams of macros?
I hired a cycling coach last year after hacking it myself for a few months - he gave me a diet plan - it was sooooooo much more carb heavy than anything I'd ever eaten, at first I was stoked living in bread hog heaven, then without really realizing it I gained 20lbs of fat over the following 6 months while training 6hrs a week haha. Funny how if you're kinda thin to begin with getting fat vialove handles etc really sneaks up on you and suddenly youre like "no seriously I'm kinda fat now"...
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.910 | 22 ก.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4TR3MVpOiw8/mqdefault.jpg)
Calculator plz
A calculator would be valuable, especially if it prompted you for the input weight
Yes PLEASE for the calculator!!! I need that in my life!!
Would be cool to have that!
That's an awesome video! Not too long, not too short and explained very clearly
So glad you enjoyed it!
Yes. Much better than „shorts“
And not too long
Calculator 😅
A calculator would be awesome. I have been struggling for about a year now and all signs are pointing to RED-S. Thank you for this clear and concise explanation!
Hi TrainerRoad - funny story: I am in the video at 4:14 in the stock footage haha. I also just finished my MPH in nutrition in dietetics and am an RD who works in eating disorder treatment. Happy to see you bring awareness to REDs! Just a note - would always recommend adding a disclaimer to videos to work with your primary care provider and a dietitian (RDs with a specialization in sports will have a CSSD by their name! And eating disorder providers will likely have CEDS by their name, but not all eating disorder providers carry this credential) when attempting to lose weight. Thanks again for talking about this!
You're famous!! That's a great point on the disclaimer and an oversight on our end. We'll add this to the description and to future videos on this topic.
Yes, a calculator would be super helpful! :)
It's like they noticed my reported weight has kept going up and wanted to give me a hand to drop weight in a better manner. Thanks TrainerRoad!
Weight *aaannnd* power???
@@TrainerRoad Gotta get up those hills much faster! 💪
Calculator Please ! - Awesome video, more like this
Thanks for the feedback! More videos coming :)
Ok love this & saving for later. Clear, concise info and a simple plan to be able to put it into action, thanks and awesome work 👍
Love to hear it!
I've read the paper. I think the physiology is sound and as a proof of concept addressing the metabolic response to extreme caloric restriction on muscle metabolomics is interesting and of value. However a 900 calorie/d restriction is of course extreme and perhaps the responses don't necessarily reflect the responses to more modest restriction. The concluding advice I'm sure is reasonable!
Agreed. Modest caloric deficits are more sustainable and less risky. The negative impact of the common use case of skipping a meal, however, is often underestimated.
@trainerroad: but is the negative impact of skipping a meal (presuming a person has some adipose tissue they can afford to lose) really a negative? Skipping a meal (thus keeping insulin repressed and glucagon active) is an entirely different proposition than simply reducing caloric intake across all meals, but continuing to eat throughout the day. The reduction of caloric intake across a ‘normal’ meal schedule is very likely the cause of the large drop in BMR found in this study.
Great video and I like that you covered the basis on why eating enough is important for everyone and gave concrete instructions on a way to calculate macros and ideally lose fat.
And yes to the calculator!
Thanks, Jeff!
Yes for the calculator!!
There's nothing really wrong with running a 900 calorie deficit as long as you're getting all the macros you need. I started TrainerRoad and ran a similar deficit all the way until summer, lost 30 lbs and gained 80w on my FTP in the process. Now I've stayed the same weight and have added another 35w on top of that. Just have to be smart about how you do it, don't cut out so much food that you're not getting the correct amount of protein or not enough carbs for your workouts!
Way to go! That's a huge accomplishment. :)
Macros are calories so I'm not sure how that works. You can't get macros without getting calories. Might you be referring to micro nutrients?
@@timtaylor9590
"You can't get macros without getting calories." - This is true. However, you can eat calories that don't have the right composition of macros. For instance gummy bears are high in carbs, and low in protein, fat.
If you eat the right foods, in the right quantities, you can remain in a deficit while still taking in adequate macronutrients.
@@liamcooper3836 define adequate? Isn't that the very debate being had. Sufficient macros for optimal gains. Sure gains can be made with different ratios of macros but no matter the ratio if youre getting an adequate amount then by no means would it ever be considered deficient. In my experience having a balanced macro intake is best because it's easier for the body to use carbs for fast energy, fat for longer, less intense sustained efforts, and protein for rebuilding. I wouldn't recommend using protein for energy unless you're trying to make an extreme body composition change like cutting body builders. I don't see an advantage in restricting any one macro if performance and gains are the goal. Again restricting one or two macros isn't calorie deficient, it seems the original commenter is confused or mis worded it.
I think it also depends what your current weight is. Running a calorie deficit of 900 cal if you weigh lets say 155 lbs (70 kg) is drastic. Whereas if you have an additional 30 lbs to lose which is mostly fat then losing 900 cal while maintaining a balanced diet is okay.
Id pay good money for TR to add that calculator please
Big YES to the calculator
Calculator and article with all that info written down please! Keep up the great work!
This is exactly what I needed! Please please please get a calculator going 🙏🏾
Great Video! Cutting the KCal in half is very drastic and it is no surprise that the bmr dropped. In terms of weight loss you shouldn't drop more than 1% of you body weight per week in order to prevent severe much muscle loss. If you you are a 125lb female that would be around 600kcal deficit (very restricted) , diet breaks would be highly recommended to reduce impact on the BMR. Increasing Protein is also a must during those restrictions in my opinion. A Calculator would be great!
Great advice on the diet breaks!
Thank you for talking about female athletes 🤗
You're so welcome!
Calculators plz!❤❤❤
Calculator would be amazing!
I've got pounds to lose for the sake of climbing and even more importantly for health in general. I need to be in caloric deficit to lose weight, but don't want to lose muscle mass. I am eating more protein than before the path to a smaller and lighter me began, and weighting it in the AM. I have to rewatch this video!
Keep up the good work!
I was thinking "I wonder if Trainer Road has a nifty calculator for this" and right then you said we should comment if we'd like a calculator for it!
Calculator? Yes please!
Adding a calculator would be invaluable to have! Thank you for considering it!!!
I lost 140lbs on a severe caloric deficit almost 20yrs ago. Lost 95% of that weight in a year and have only yoyo'd about 15lbs since then. Even know though, i love in what a computer would say is about a 1000calorie deficit every day but I'm maintaining my weight at about 190-195lbs. Worked well enough to be a cat1. Some people need to do this if they were very big at one time.
That had to have been super hard! Well done.
@TrainerRoad the diet is still a lot harder than the training. I was big on purpose... high school all-American shot putter but a hand injury my freshman year in college ended my track career.
Congratulations! I can’t remember watching a more informative and relevant video. Awesome.
Thank you so much!
Ok, now I have watched the video four times to get every bit of info. Best stuff I have heard in a long time about nutrition. I like like like the defined plan. Keep this stuff up. Up there with the best content for athletes on youtube
Had to sit in a dark room with a wet towel wrapped round my head for this one. Too much maths! 🤯 Count me in for a calculator 🙌
Glad to hear you made it through! lol
Strength training avoids 90% of the muscle loss associated with weight loss. The citation is in How not to Age by Michael Greger.
Okay I’ve watched this a few times now. Super helpful. One question: how does fasted riding and fat-adapted training factor into this? For example, is doing the occasional 45-60 minute endurance ride first thing in the morning (fasted) doing more harm than good? Or is that still okay if you adequately replenish afterwards?
Also interested in this answer
This video was super helpful. But... 90g of carbs per hour on the bike seems like a LOT. That's more than 4 gels or equivalent per hour. It makes sense in terms of energy balance, I'm just not sure how I could sustain that kind of intake, and I'm concerned about the impact on my glucose levels both during and after the ride. I'm not diabetic but I'm old enough that I don't think my insulin response is what it used to be.
🤚Yes, on the calculator!
As an overweight cyclist 20kg into a 35kg weight loss goal, while still trying to get faster, I am in love with the concept of a scientifically backed formula for calorie consumption. Thank you TR!
My problem is much more than 30*FFM (as measured by Garmin index s2) grinds my weight loss to a halt.
Is this a case of YMMV? Should I look at validating my scales FFM/body fat estimate? Could it be the distribution of macros of my diet?
I use MFP for calorie tracking and tend to be on the pessimistic side of any unknowns and use a power meter to track workouts, so I’d like to think they’re not miles out
First Love Trainer Road and these kinds of Videos. Just want to point out that these studies are problematic because they do continue after the calorie deficit is over. Usually, muscle lost during weight loss comes back very easily, once the calorie deficit is eliminated, especially if eating enough protein. You can also negate most muscle loss by eating higher than normal 1 g/ pound body weight, which seems to be really good based on the literature. Depending on the individual, you can lose weight without losing much muscle or fat for 8-12 weeks before needing to take a break, it's also important not to try and lose weight too rapidly. The downside of this much protein is you have less energy available to train so this might not be ideal for endurance training. It is also recommended to maintain or reduce training volume if you are trying to lose a significant amount of weight; if you are well-trained, you should expect your performance to decrease or be maintained during this time. If you try to improve your fitness while losing weight (unless you haven't been training), you will probably fail at both. Workouts should also be lower intensity, this will help reduce the risk of injury.
Bodybuilding has shown us exactly how to lose weight and build muscle for decades now
Calculatooorrrrr pleeze. Thank you!
Great video Jonathon! Yes, yes calculator please!
Thank you, Peter!
- Jonathan
This would be a wonderful addition. Yes for the calculator
Yes would love that calculator
Yes please for that calc...
Yes please for the calculator
I would absolutely love to see a calculator!
Iirc, another study found that it’s possible to achieve fat loss with lean mass gain, provided that the deficit isn’t too big. I think it was somewhere in the range of nothing more than 200-300cal. Participants were able to build muscles, while also burning fats. They hypothesised that the body was actively burning fats to fuel the muscular activities.
Beyond that deficit however, they found the same muscle mass loss reflected in this study.
Yep! Managing a modest deficit less than 300 calories doesn't introduce the same challenges, but it can still blunt gains and be difficult to maintain long term.
Commenting for calculator please!
Fantastic video! Really refreshing to see the 'eat less, move more' spiel debunked 👏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yes, please. A calculator would be valuable.
Yes please to the calculator
A calculator would be excellent. Thanks!
Awesome video! I have watched it a couple times to take it in. A calculator would be great. Thanks for making these!
A calculator will be an absolute winner
Love this format!
Love that you love it!
Yes on the calculator!
I’m interested on the OEA calculator ❤
A calculator or even a calculation in the app would be fantastic
When you complete a graphic, please leave it on the screen for at least one whole second. Would love to have a few secs to take it in, think, calculate a bit, etc. Thanks in advance!
A calculator would be great please
Calculator would be great! Will watch this again..good stuff.
Intriguing review. A calculator would be great !
Excellent & informational video. Calculator would be extremely helpful!
Great stuff, calculator vote!
Would love a calculator for this. Our family grew this year, and focus has not been on riding/health. Put on a decent amount of weight and need to get healthy again, fast is a secondary goal. Might be nice if the calculator had some sort of way of weighting your goals (IE speed, vs winter weight loss with no cycling goals in mind)
So far I’ve used a ratio that some bodybuilders use. Basically aiming to hit 40% protein calories where carbs and fats fall into their own place.
For any rides I have a decent pre ride meal. But generally don’t fuel for two hour endurance rides.
I do want to start fuelling during my rides.
When I initially started my deficit I saw a 20% drop in performance. But have started to make gains again with a consistent week over week increase.
I’m trying to drop from 92kg to 75ish.
Yes! Calculator please!
I can haz calculator?
yis
Calculator please.
Good video, calculator will be a great value add 👍🏼
Excellent, clearly presented. Sign me up for a calculator.
Yes pease to the calculator!
Yes. Calculator please!
Yes, calculator! That’s a lot of steps to remember.
Calculator please!
A calculator would be great... Thanks
Calculator would be amazing.
You really freaked people out with the flipped velodrome shot at 8:21
😵💫🤣
yep, calculator would be great
Wow that was quick!!! Great video!!!
Great simple and precise explanation Jonathan, even though I will need to watch it again too much information there!😂
calculator would be great
Great job on the video, calculator please!!
A yes please for the calculator
Me: Dang muscles
Muscles: “You want me on that wall, You need me on that wall!”
Great video! Like the science. A calculator would be really useful!
Thank you!
Calculator and information/article. This is amazing information!
Brilliant vid guys :) well done. A calculator would be excellent please create one guys.. Pete
Thanks, Pete!
I would love a calculator, great video!
Yes want the calculator please
Wow, top explanation with great analogy.
Yes please
Very informative. Just to clarify, the calories we eat to make up what’s burned on a ride is not included within the FFMxOEA calculation (which is just for normal meals). Correct?
+1
I’d be interested in the calculator with sliders to adjust up and down. I’m very interested in where you came up with the 65/18/17 calorie split. Also is the percentage calories or grams of macros?
I hired a cycling coach last year after hacking it myself for a few months - he gave me a diet plan - it was sooooooo much more carb heavy than anything I'd ever eaten, at first I was stoked living in bread hog heaven, then without really realizing it I gained 20lbs of fat over the following 6 months while training 6hrs a week haha. Funny how if you're kinda thin to begin with getting fat vialove handles etc really sneaks up on you and suddenly youre like "no seriously I'm kinda fat now"...
Definitely want the calculator please
Another vote for developing a calculator!
Let training be the main cause for adaptation not diet. The body will adapt the best way possible.
This is an underrated approach!
Please make a feature to link to Garmin connect in order to upload activities from the smartphone
I did a Dexa scan recently. However I don't see the FFM number. I see a Lean Body mass number. Should I add bone mass to that to get the FFM?
Definitely would like a calculator please
OEA Calculator = Winner.......Please and thank you.
Great explanation and calculator please!