ChargePoint Is Now Installing SAE J3400 Plugs!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- It's happening, folks! ChargePoint is now deploying native SAE J3400 plugs at its charging sites, and so far, they've updated over a dozen of their sites in California. Because this standard uses the Tesla plug format but is based on CCS protocols, all that a CCS1 EV needs to use these plugs is a basic adapter. The big win for ChargePoint is that they'll be able increase site traffic by wooing Tesla drivers who don't want to use an adapter; however, in order for a Tesla EV to use J3400, they must first have the CCS1 compatibility update.
PlugShare: www.plugshare.com/location/29...
#CHPT - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[MULTI SUB] Exclusive on the entire network [Million Girls from the Slums]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C5TV1Wcp3Vo/mqdefault.jpg)
This is great news. Now that I own both a Tesla and Bolt, I'm thrilled for all infrastructure advances that expands my choices enroute to various places regardless of the car I drive. Your advocacy always helps these advances.
Hi Bruce, welcome to the Bolt Tesla owner club. My wife and I joined the club, leaving the double Bolt club after nearly four and a half years, last September. I remember you were a regular follower of the young to me lady who had the Volt in Las Vegas.
Thank you, Bruce! These sites also make EV caravanning a lot easier, which I think people forget. We used to do long trips with family and friends years ago, and we'd always be sure to set rendezvous points along the route to make sure the group stayed together.
Caravanning sounds fun!
Great to see! FYI, the slightly "different" shape of the plug ends of those connectors as opposed to the typical V2-V3 Supercharger connector confirms physical conformity with the new "J3400" standard as opposed to Tesla's legacy configuration. There has been talk within the SAE committee to include language in the final standard (not yet released) to allow charge providers the option to include "smart" protocol detection that could detect DIN 70121 from an older Tesla EV plugs, switch protocols, and be able to initiate charging.
Also, I was up in Weed last weekend and checked in on the new Pilot/GM Energy charge station. It is still fenced-off, but now appears 100% complete other than the missing utility transformer. Pacific Power, their local utility (NOT PG&E), was notoriously slow installing the transformers for the original group of 50 kW Chargepoint stations between Dunsmuir and Yreka a few years ago. Let's hope they will get to this one a bit quicker.
Thanks! That's good to hear about alternative standards. It really shouldn't take too much programming to support legacy standards.
That's unfortunate to hear about the Pilot site in Weed. When I spoke to the installer, he stated that the utility already had the transformer sitting in their yard, so it's entirely possible that they are just dragging their feet. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, there could also be one final post construction inspection required before power is turned on, but I can't see why the transformer couldn't be installed before that inspection.
So exciting! It feels a little early since non-Tesla's are not rolling off the lines with them, but it seems like a "future proof" move. Even still, very cool to see the future in the wild. Thx for the video. I enjoyed watching.
Thanks, Walter!
Kyle Conner's visit to CP's HQ included a discussion about the CPE250 upgrade option. The plan would be to swap out the old 31.25kW modules for 40kW modules and the cables go from 200A to like 250A or something. I think they called it the CPE280.
Yes, but if they've actually deployed them, I haven't seen them in the wild. That still doesn't really address the issue of bridging current between the units. The primary benefit with pairing for higher voltage.
After 10 years of driving EVs I am a fan of Chargepoint.
Happy to see them upgrading their plugs! I will definitely try them if I come across one.
Funny fact, some EVGo stations had the Tesla plug for a while (at least 2 or 3 years) but it was actually a Chademo with a Tesla plug at the end. They worked for all Tesla vehicles, even the old ones. They had a 120 A limit, though.
But regarding charge speed, I'm think we need a variety. My current Model Y charges faster than I want in many situations. If I want to do anything other than just a bathroom and coffee break, there isn't enough time. I actually would love to see slower L3 options when I plan a longer stop. A 50 to 70 kW charger would often be ideal for longer stops.
Thanks, David! I definitely agree that there's a place for the slower chargers; I was mostly making the point that ChargePoint is still slow to deploy their faster chargers, even if they are more appropriate for the site (like this convenience store off an interstate). They do, however, have plenty of chargers next to sit-down restaurants, and I, for one, don't want to be rushing out to the charger 20 to 30 minutes into a nice, relaxing meal.
I’m glad you mentioned the benefit of not always needing to charge at the fastest speed. ✅
I think EV drivers are rightfully sour on ChargePoint due to their sales model. Once the charger is sold, it's out of ChargePoint's responsibility. Here in New Mexico, we have a handful of stranded ChargePoint CPE-250s that have been in the ground for a year or more but aren't energized.
Several other installations are improperly or partially configured, such as 50 kW software locked at a gas station and only $1/hr. The site host matters greatly in the success of ChargePoint stations, and very few in New Mexico are competent when it comes to upkeep/repairs and EVs in general.
Yeah, that's a big factor. ChargePoint really can't separate their reputation from the reliability of their chargers. Personally, I think they would benefit from adopting an automaker approach to their charging units, by providing warranties on their hardware.
@@newscoulomb3705 Most of the issues I described can be easily fixed with a more hands-on approach from ChargePoint. They need to make sure stations are energized within a reasonable time and that the power level is appropriate to the dwell time.
With the example I gave, the Avanyu Travel Center in Española, NM is almost guaranteed to lose money only charging $1/hr. That's only 2.8 cents per kWh at a 50 kW charge rate.
Right now, after the hardware is sold, ChargePoint simply doesn't care. It's out of their hands and it's no longer the purview of their sales team.
Chargepoint definitely deserves some Kudos for moving first on J3400 👍
I can’t wait to see some in my neck of the woods.
Definitely! It looks like they're starting to mass produce the cables, so I could see this transition happening across the country within the next year or so.
Love the chargepoint at my grocery as it is free while I shop!
Happy to see these (and you!) rolling out. S'pose I need to get myself an A2Z adapter now that Hyundai are saying Q4 24 for access, which probably means official adapters by 2026 on Hyundai time.
Yeah, I'm no longer holding my breath for GM access to the Superchargers. They said "Spring," but we should have asked which year.
@@newscoulomb3705 More in the sense of "spring for an A2Z" and you will definitely get access at some point this decade.
You covered my biggest gripe about these CPE250s. Your Bolt is maxing out that 62.5kw one at 50-54kw because of the 150A limit. A Tesla would get the same, maybe peaking over 60kw somewhere around 80% when the pack voltage climbs enough. The “125kw” units are limited to 200A, so a Tesla would max out probably around 75-78kw. That would be fine at a restaurant or grocery/department store, but not a gas station/quickie mart.
That was one of the things I liked about my Ioniq5. I could pull into any 50kw charger and get 50kw from 0-90%. It would get very near to the 125kw that the paired CPE250s are rated for from 0-80ish %. The higher voltage gets a lot more out of these lower power chargers. It just gets limited by the native 400V chargers, which mostly wasn’t an issue until magic dock chargers and J3400 became a thing.
Other than the Cybertruck, Tesla EVs shouldn't see any additional benefit from the paired 125 kW units. The bridging doesn't provide any additional current over the 156 A as far as I know. It's just the increased voltage. The highest rate I've seen on one of these is 115-120 kW in a KIA EV6.
It makes sense to get going on adding flexibility to EV chargers now that the standard is changing. Thanks for the video.
Thank you for the news of what’s starting to hit the streets for charging!
Nice to see Chargepoint updating dispenser capability. As you said, these still serve well for anyone topping up while they make a brief stop, but at ~150amps tops, it does cap off 400v charging power for road-trips, even for my not-so speedy-charging ID.4. Makes them either a bridge to a faster charger or a long-lunch option, I guess. Glad to see more RC locations near the highways, even if only 60/120kW
Great video, very informative and straight to the point. Thanks!
I think there should be fee build in for not returning plug to the holster of the charger, great video thank you
ChargePoint is reading the EV charging business better than most providers it seems. ChargePoint will be able to serve all CCS vehicles whether they have the CCS1 connector or the J3400. They also will be able to serve updated Teslas. Musk laying off the Supercharger team begins to make sense if the intent is to sell off the Supercharger business to a group like ChargePoint or BP (which has already signaled they are interested in buying some SC locations). And then there is Ionna, which says their dispensers will have CCS1 and J3400 connectors.
Great video. I actually recently took advantage of how cheap Chargepoint stock is right now to purchase 1,000 shares. I honestly only see the upsides of this company. They produce such reliable equipment. They are my preferred dispensers when I travel and we own 2 of their Chargepoint Home Flex level 2 smart chargers at home. The people short on the stock point out that Chargepoint has a lot of debt. That debt isn't even due for another 3 1/2 years. They have plenty of time to pay it. The EV community needs to settle down about this.
Thanks! I agree. I started buying in again when I saw how depressed the value was, but personally, I am doing it less about the finances and more as a statement. Essentially: "I have faith in this company." I really just dislike the idea that people are actively betting against them in order to make a quick buck, and that can easily become a self-fulfilling prophecy during this crucial transition period.
Well, good for ChargePoint. Hope other DCFC providers will follow suit.
Great video, I hope Chargepoint watches this.
Great video, appreciate it. Stay safe.
Hi Eric. I’ve been following your channel for 4-5 years now, and I know that you’ve put a lot of miles on your Bolt EV. Here’s my question… other than tires, what other maintenance or repair have you needed? By the way, your videos are the reason I bought a Bolt EV.
Awesome. People forget chargepoint has the scale, largest international provider and they are largest for Fleet.
Good video Eric, nice to see charge Point is working well and adopting Tesla Plugs.
Great video and informative. CP definitely needs to up their game in getting the more powerful chargers installed.
The maveriks across the street was installing freewire units. And more freewire arco Bp pulse units a few miles away. West Sacramento has expanded DC charging a bit over the past year. Wonder if some of that has to do with A’s baseball temporarily moving to West Sac before Las Vegas.
Oh, nice. I didn't see the chargers going in at the Maveriks. I've been seeing a ton of new Maveriks going in, so hopefully that's something they are doing across all their sites.
Sacramento in general has been getting a lot of public charging support. I think it mostly has to do with being the capital.
I see the occasional brave soul road tripping a Leaf, but it’s a much better business decision for ChargePoint to capture Tesla drivers with J3400
I have been range testing my new to me 2011 Leaf.
I can make the Airport due to 4 fast chargers in nearby Leduc allowing a return trip.
They need to upgrade the NV stations from Fallon to Beatty.
Absolutely! I've been itching to drive that road for a while now.
Love using ChargePoint and EVgo chargers. Super easy to activate just plug it in tap your card and it works. Electrify America is a pain in the ass. Half the time there's a communication problem between the app and the charger. Or you'll plug it in and then swipe to activate and it doesn't work or there's some kind of timing issue. Unfortunately there are no 24-hour access chargepoint stations in my area. They're all at car dealers behind lock gates after hours. Making them pretty much useless to me most of the time. But on a recent road trip I was able to use some EVgo chargers and activate plug and charge on my bolt EV. Super easy super reliable, I wish electrify America and everyone else made it so easy. I wish them well and good luck with upgrading their network.
Boy that chademo to ccs adapter came out just in time!
Hah! But unfortunately, it still isn't really working based on what I've seen.
Looks great🎉
This is nice to see. I how many CPE250's Chargepoint will retrofit with the J3400 plug. Or will it be up to the site operator to make the request/purchase?
Chargepoint is a good option for us with lower charging power EV's like Niro/Kona, Bolt, Leaf, etc as it will take 45min to charge up to around 80%. I've hit 74kw on my local CPE250. Things are just a workhorse.
So far, I haven't seen anything official from ChargePoint, but the sites where they've added the new plugs seems pretty random. They might be basing it on data of usage by Tesla EVs.
I noticed a few weeks back that a few CPE250s on PlugShare within a couple hundred miles of me were getting these new J3400 plugs. I thought maybe it was just field testing but it looks like the rollout is finally happening! How's your A2Z adapter working out so far? I was on the list for the Lectron CCS to J3400 but ended up cancelling. Been thinking about picking up the A2Z adapter but haven't seen too much about it.
Yes, I about the J3400 at ChargePoint HQ for a while, but they've installed equipment there that's taken years to be deployed (if ever). Someone in chat tipped me off about these updates, so I figured I'd check it out in person.
This was actually my first time using the adapter. It works fine, but I'm not in love with the design (it's kind of a pain to use). Liv and Patrick over at the Mach-E Vlog did a great review of the different adapters, so definitely check that out before you buy.
@@newscoulomb3705there were a couple more J3400 at the beginning of the year. Dont recall exactly where Target in North Auburn, CA and a chevron in Folsom? I Didn’t take it too seriously for deployment as the sites just had a single J3400 each. This was one of the first with multiple heads on site. Florida also has a decent amount going in.
@@tkmedia3866 Yeah, it was definitely piecemeal at first. Thanks for the heads up!
I was in Sacramento a few weeks ago for the umpteenth time as I have close family there. I sure saw a lot of Teslas there and a few Bolts too. I live in NW Wisconsin so the winter weather there is better for EV’s and gas is always high there so it makes more sense to go electric there.
How hard is it for a charge site to upgrade their grid connection? If they didn't have much headroom in the connection, upgrading the chargers at a site isn't goint to help.
It really depends on what power drop was already installed. Upping the site power would probably require similar work to building a station at a location without a power drop.
However, that said, I'd like to see ChargePoint spend a bit more time installing grid-tie battery/inverters, which would allow for more power than the drop can feed (working like the Freewire Boost chargers).
@@newscoulomb3705 I have notice that some of the Tesla Supercharger sites I frequent on I5 between SF and LA have one or more "Megapack" batteries. Same idea: charge the battery from the grid when station usage is low, supplement the grid when the station has dozens of cars pulling 200+ kW each.
"J3400 connector is not the tesla connector". This is lost a lot in the NACS noise.
Sadly, I think it's sometimes intentional.
Very cool 😎
What is the cost per kwh?
Man we cowboys here in TX especially in the rural areas east TX and south TX near the gulf shore small town areas need chargers. Thanks Man for your videos. Question, how many miles is on that 2017 Bolt.? Last line I saw you had 175k?? I have a newly used 2023 Bolt. It had 4500 when I got it it just rolled 15k. 10k miles in 2 months. I’m going to run this thing till it dies! 😎
Thanks! It's just shy of 180k now. I haven't been driving as much recently, but Summer is coming.
@@newscoulomb3705 awesome! Comgrats! I purchased my daughter a 2017 with the new battery a year ago and She loves it. Stay tune for videos and shorts about my “Bolt” journey. Another question, what is your name? I am Shannon.
I get that this isn't a "Tesla plug" (I won't use the term NACS because, as you say, it's not a standard) and a Tesla must have the CCS "conversion" to be able to use the J3400 plug.
But...can the Bolt use the J3400 plug with the A2Z adapter? You seemed to say yes but I'm not quite clear on that.
Yes, I wasn't sure whether I had made it clear enough, but yes, this charging session was using the J3400 plug with the A2Z adapter on my Bolt EV. It activated just like CCS1 (after I remembered to set the locking mechanism).
@@newscoulomb3705 Good to know, thanks!
I think 150kW chargers s/b the minimum power installed these days.
Wish Tesla would publish dates when other manufacturers will be allowed to charge @ their stations.
To me, it really needs to match the location. For instance, the Walmart locations that ChargePoint is providing hardware for could easily be paired CPE250 units. However, for multi-use sites like most charging providers are install, though, I agree with you. 150 kW probably should be the minimum.
So here’s the problem…while Tesla owners can use a CCS1 adapter to charge at stations like these, if the sole remaining CHAdeMO dispenser is down like it was when you were there, the LEAF driver is stuck. Note that the LEAF is still in production and that means new CHAdeMO cars are still rolling out.
Yeah, that's definitely a concern, which is part of why I would still like to see at least a couple of CHAdeMO plugs. I do think it's also worth noting that CHAdeMO is also still the primary way for non-DCFC EVs and EV conversions to add DCFC functionality.
Do you think Tesla firing the supercharger team might interfere with plans to switch to J3400 from CCS1?
Hey, thanks for watching. No, I think the only issues will be on Tesla's side (opening and updating the Superchargers). Otherwise, SAE has already published the new standard, and most automakers and charging providers seem happy to make the switch. I'd expect a majority of new EVs to ship with J3400 in about 2 years, and I expect parity between CCS1 and J3400 on the public chargers within the next few years.
i'm curious about this CCS1-specific vandalism you're talking about. I've never seen or heard of such a thing. I've seen charger vandalism reports on PlugShare where someone used sprayfoam to render a plug useless.
It was pretty widespread with EVgo, where vandals weren't cutting cables or stealing copper. They were just breaking off the locking clips in the cable, smashing the screens, and breaking the credit card readers.
@@newscoulomb3705 that sounds awful! I really think CPOs should rethink their hardware deployments to now limit them to places with on-site personnel like service stations and travel plazas. At a minimum have canopies and lighting and well-visible cameras to deter vandalism and thieves. Each cable costs thousands to replace, so the higher initial costs for a better site design are quickly made up for by the improved security and maintenance savings.
I wonder if a Cybertruck would do 800V, on this?
Yes, it should. I'm not sure on its exact voltage, but the Cybertruck should charge at ~120 kW on these units.
I understand the resistance of calling it NACS But j3400 just does not roll off the tongue the same 😂
Heh, as some have said, now that it's all the same standard, we can just call it "DC charging" or a "plug."
The chargepoint business model is bullocks. Don't think anyone is shorting them because of their hardware.
I'm not sure I agree. People short stocks for only one reason: To make money at someone else's expense. It's essentially gambling, but the problem is, a lot of short sellers also found out that it's extremely easy to manipulate the market through influencers and media.
Also, I think ChargePoint's business model is sound, but I don't think their execution has been great (part of what I'm calling out in this video). After all, EVgo is now opening a division (eXtend) that literally copies ChargePoint's primary business model. EVgo wouldn't have done if it wasn't viable, and it works much closer to credit card business models than a lot of "analysts" seem to realize.
Personally, I think ChargePoint's single biggest problem is that they haven't figured out that they can't actually separate their brand identity and reputation from their charger/network reliability, so they can't just sell chargers and wash their hands of responsibility for keeping them up and running.
Incorrect. People short stocks because they believe the business is not viable. It is certainly a form of gambling, just like going long is, but the reason to short is based on the prediction of the future viability of the enterprise.
People long stocks because they believe the business *is* viable. Given that.90% of businesses are *not* viable in the long term, shorting is less of a gamble than longing is.
@@homomorphic Well, we could go down a deep rabbit hole discussing investing, but the 90% business failures isn't accurate unless you extend the timeline out to nearly a century. Sure, if you include small businesses that might even be an understatement, but we're talking about companies trading on the NYSE.
While I agree that "longing" and "shorting" stocks can both be forms of gambling, there are other reasons to own a stock outside of expected growth, ranging from voting on how the company is run to enjoying profit sharing through dividends.
With shorting however, it literally is just betting that the company will fail to maintain its market cap (which doesn't necessarily have any connection to the actual success or failure of the business), and my issue with shorting has more to do with the "shorts" taking active part in undermining the companies they are shorting. Sure, that can also happen with people who are promoting stocks that they they are long on (e.g., pump and dumps), but I don't agree with that behavior either.
@@newscoulomb3705 well yes, you need a long time horizon, but if you ever wondered why vampires are *always* fabulously wealthy... ;-)
This is great news for future Aptera owners, that will not need an adapter to charge at most stations.
I have 24,803 shares of chargePoint @2.11
I know there are quite a few EV advocates who greatly dislike Chargepoint and claim that Chargepoint single-handedly set back charging infrastructure development by YEARS.
Chargepoint lobbied utility commissions and lawmakers to prevent electric utilities from being able to independently invest into offering DCFC infrastructure. This was done in a bid to force utilities to buy Chargepoint products. It worked.
Yeah, I've heard some people say that, but I have to wonder how much of that is based on misleading information from the utilities because ChargePoint was part of the reason why demand charge fees were reformed in several states as well as why non-utilities are now allowed to charge per kWh (two things that the utilities were fighting hard to stop).
I’ve owned a 2017 Bolt since June 2020 and love it. But I’m not at all surprised that chargepoint’s stock is tanking. I fast charge a few times a month and 75% of the time at a ChargePoint, the charge rate starts out well but within 5 minutes slows down due to the charging hardware. I know it isn’t car restricted because I’m below 40% charged and the battery is at temp. The ChargePoint chargers will start delivering 52 kw but then quickly slow down. I can switch chargers and it immediately starts back again at 52 kw. It is infuriating and every other charging supplier has gotten their act together EXCEPT ChargePoint.
Interesting. Where are you located? I've never experienced that with ChargePoint's newer hardware.
@@newscoulomb3705 I live in Roseville but I charge at home when near home. My experience is with many ChargePoint locations up and down highway 99 and I-80 through central California. Most recently I drove to LA and used multiple ChargePoint locations as well as EV Go and EA. I had problems at every one of the ChargePoint stops and none of the EV Go or EA locations.