BorgWarner EFR8474 Black In depth
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- This video was called for by one of our subscribers, i go into the Black series turbocharger, and briefly mention the predecessor 8374 - which was a 750HP capable turbo, with a compressor that measured 62mm x 83mm and is now replaced by the 8474 Black Series which uses a 86mm x 84mm compressor which produces 950HP.
I didn't go into TOO much detail on the compressor map this time, but look out for the comparison between the EFR8474 Black and the G35-1050 coming up next.
If you havent seen the side by side comparison between the Garrett G-series and EFR range of turbochargers here they are as mentioned in the video
Part1:- • Garrett vs BorgWarner ...
Part2:- • Garrett vs BorgWarner ...
BorgWarner as you can see is a serious contender and is very underrated. Enjoy the video - comment and let's hear from you. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![[#SHORTS CLIP] ครูอึ้ง กรรมการอึ้ง ฮ่าๆ l ซานิเบาได้เบา l One Playground](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qeBTuMJs4t0/mqdefault.jpg)
What an awesome video... this channel by far is the best on turbochargers out there for enthusiasts. Most people who make videos on turbos just give big generalizations. I love the technical detail. I'm definitely going with this 8474 on my BMW 1M (3L N54 engine) for the Nurburgring. Hopefully BW has resolved their supply issues!
Thank you for the positive feedback! Your BMW wont disappoint you with that setup!
Love your video!
Fantastic finding someone that actually knows Turbos AND knows BorgWarner!!
Really, really nice!!
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it.
Ok time for the 9274 and 9280 now!!! Only found this channel about 6months ago and loving it ever since
Thanks for the comments Byron - the 9280 will come soon, will do the necessary comparisons to the different Airwerks and Garrett turbochargers aswell. Glad you enjoying the channel
Always enjoy the technical side thks
Pleasure Terrance - glad you enjoying.
Great vid as usual, very awesome turbo
Thank you - glad you enjoying the content
Awesome turbo, bought the 8474 0.92 AR Twin Scroll, Aluminium CHRA for a 10.5:1 2.7l 4cyl 3RZ running on E85.
Thanks for sharing, please let us know some figures
How has the turbo worked out for the 3rz?
Got my long block back and have started work on my build! Can’t wait to unleash this 8474. I got a quick spool nitrous setup going on it too :D
Thats great news man - keep us posted with the project
2 videos on the same weekend? What a treat, Chris. Danke.
P.S. Slight transposition error in the video description; the 8474 compressor inducer is 68 mm, not 86. :)
Hey Eric, Thanks for the comment, and as usual you are wide awake - I did mentioned the exducer only in the video - however check my video description, i mentioned the inducer blade diameter there.
Reason i left it out was the naming convention used is EFR83 ... 74 and the black series is 84....74 which is why i mentioned only the 1mm difference in the exducer. But you are correct the black is 86mm x 84mm - identical turbine however.
Great videos as usual, learn something new every day! Not much info on a sr platform so i'll give it a go. Sr20det, 2L 8.3 comp ratio, balanced, ported, hks 264,7500-8200 rev limit, after a 500hp wheel(can be more) on a 4x4 configuration so 600hp crank. Was thinking of a .82 T3 V-band housing with external 40mm wastegate. 3" exhaust with high flowing cat.
Thanks for the comment - yup you are on the right track - the 83 housing will work 100% . Compression seems a little low, but non the less, the turbo is the correct one.
@@TurboDirectSA Any benefits aloy over cast cartridge besides weight, Speculate on a full boost by what rpm. I could go 8:5 comp by changing head gasket but since it works then no point doing that t the moment.
I am very thankful, to find channel by a recommendation in a forum. You doing incredible job and giving amateurs, semi professional, tuners, and even for professional users a completely different aspect and knowledge about the turbochargers! Is this 10-15% overrated Garrett turbocharger compressor map is valid only for G-series or for the older models too? Subscribed and advertised..🤗
Thank you Zoltan for the comment - glad we can help. The G-series turbochargers (Garrett's new line up) is overrated, the older GTX Gen2 range is proven, but with one or two questionable compressor maps in the GTX3582R Gen2 lineup - G-series>>>overrated, underpowered, and we seeing more and more shaft failures.
@@TurboDirectSA ohhh. Thanks for the detailed reply!
could you do a comparison video of efr8474 vs 9174, that would be cool.
I really like the swing valve
Excellent, stable consistent boost control and saves you money and effort in the external gate option and its fabrication required.
Considering this 8474 turbo with a divided T3 inlet and .75 a/r for my 2.0 built FA20F WRX (I'm a mile above sea level). Would you do this combo for a street car? I don't want to be lugging around and be disappointed in the streetability, but I want to easily hit 700hp or more. Thanks, in advance!
What time size is the efr8474?
hello on a 2.5L DAZA Audi RS3, how much HP can I expect to make? xona 8264S on the same setup makes 850-900whp
I'm considering this monster for my Volvo S60r build. Sleeving the block currently. Choosing a turbo is a tough task.
This will work very well on the 5 cylinder! The AR83 turbine housing with IWG is the right setup for a streetable car!
Hi, is there any advantage to using the boost control solenoid on this turbo as opposed to using my stock ford 3 port boost control solenoid on my barra?
It is supplied with the turbo, and is new - if yours still works, use it. If yours is poked, use the supplied one. Same same.
Excellent video. Technical but easily understandable.
I'm planning on running 600whp on a 140i B58, would the 8474 be too big for that? In that case I'm planning on running a 8374.
Thanks.
B58 will suit the 8474 black series - use the 83 turbine housing and high boost actuator - will spoil fast and linear response will be more than streetable
Hi Chris, love this channel.
Would a 0.92 A/R turbine housing for the 8474 be too large for a 1jz non vvti? I'm planning to run +600whp on a T4 divided manifold with a high stall A340 automatic for street/strip use. My goal is to run 10s 1/4 mile with a JZX90.
Hey Jon R - thanks for the compliment. The AR92 might be a little big especially with an auto box. I would opt for the smaller AR83 turbine housing for the 1JZ - remember you will be running some boost around 1.6-1.8bar for that HP target depending on the engines capabilities and mods - maybe slightly less.
10's are easy with this engine and turbo combination - real easy.
Blew the BORG WARNER ZFR/EFR 6758 IN February of 2022 in my 09 Cobalt SS, been searching high and low for a super core but to no avail, for five months, loved the turbo, sorry Borg Warner but had to change to ZZP Z54 , wound up costing more due to retune and upper intercooler pipe and a few other things, I tried, just didn't want to wait anymore, been nearly a year, hopefully the z54 will perform pretty much the same like they say, it was pushing 400 HP with a 93 tune, 27 lbs of boost at 7200 rpm on stock internals. Hopefully y'all can get up and running soon with that awesome turbo. Maybe someday I'll change back as I'll keep the old one just in case and am able to get a super core at some point down the road.
Hey Patrick i know your pain, even as a distributor the delays are immense. The product remains top notch, but supply has been hurt since the destruction of the warehouse a while back by bad weather.
@@TurboDirectSA
WOW I didn't know that, sure hate to hear that, everyone we tried to get a hold of doesn't have it and that would sure explain it, hopefully they'll get up and running to normal soon, like I said I would have liked to go back with what I had and will definitely keep my ZFR in case I need it in the future and get a super core. Thanks for your input and explanation, God bless.
@@patrickgorham4269 Thanks Patrick - keep us posted.
@@TurboDirectSA
I sure will, the z54 and parts are in just waiting on the mechanic to install it and retune it, he's going to save the 6758 file for me just in case. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.
@@patrickgorham4269 Thanks buddy
Will a efr 9174 with T4 twin scroll 1.05 ext wastegate be a good match on a 4.0 barra? Thanks
Yes it will - depending on the HP target and application - if the application requires very fast spool, then i would consider the 8474Black, if its higher HP with no special requirement for low down response, but more power up top then i would go for the 9274
Just brought this turbo for my A90 supra. I would like to see this turbo compared directly to precision equivalent or XONA honestly that's what I'm seeing on the streets more
I wonder if the 1.05 housing is enough on a built N54 or perhaps the 1.45 is needed?
MORE than enough.
That 70% efficiency island is absurdly large. This turbo would be 70+% efficient from 4~ psi of boost to 45+psi which is crazy. This would be a fantastic turbo for a street driven 2JZ with a divided turbo manifold. With a boost by gear setup you could run very very low boost say 375-400hp(8-9psi) worth in 1st and 2nd scaling up to 800hp(30-32psi) in 4th 5th gear. A honda K24 or K20 would work really well too
Exactly right - the EFR range is grossly under-rated. This turbo will be so well suited to most of the Japanese 6cylinder engines, of which the larger 2JZ would spool beautifully for street setups. Higher revving 4cylinders will also love this turbo like the Honda's and some 4G63's.
I prefer boost versus speed as opposed to boost per gear - but they have their place.
Thank you both!! I already have a custom manifold and down pipe for this turbo for my 2jz. I’ve been starting to second guess if this would be the right turbo for the street, but after seeing what you guys are saying…. I feel a lot better 😆
@@pigbelly100 Don't stress - this turbo will be very streetable especially with the smaller AR turbine housing. You will love it - it will spool as fast as if not better than the G-series and GTX35 turbos, and make the claimed power no problems at all.
I have both 8374 and 9180 to test on my built 2jz. Still can't decide which one would be better for street. Going auto so it might not matter too much with anti lag and converter
@@thecookeman Which turbine housing do you have on these turbos? The 8374 will obviously provide better spool, but its not anywhere near as powerful as the 9180. Depending on your power requirements - the better spool is the 8374.
How would this turbo be suited to Volvo b230 engine? 2.3ltr 4 cylinder.16v head
Thanks for the comment, depending on the power you want to produce this turbo can provide acceptable response for street use (choose the smaller AR turbine housing) and still be used to break drive trains if you not careful with boost management. The multivalve head will flow well enough to spool this turbo up quite easily.
I have a bottom mount Precision 6266 Gen2 ball bearing and it smokes but only once the oil temperature is above 190 degrees F. It’s bottom mounted so I’m guessing that the drain isn’t adequate causing the oil to build up and blow by the seals. Does that sound like an accurate diagnosis or is the turbo a dud?
Without inspecting the turbo its not possible to pin point the problem, what i can say is that i have so many clients who have used these turbos and almost every single time they smoke.
What i would do is check the drain inside diameter to be no less than 16mm inside diameter, and must run downward to the return back into the block/sump. The drain must not level out and run horizontal - Check breathers, if any breather on the tappet caver (valve cover) is blocked, or any crank case breathers blocked, then this will also cause the turbocharger to leak past the split seal rings and into either the turbine and/or compressor side. if these are all checked out - then remove the turbo and have it checked out.
Check out the Turbosmart OPR40 to reduce your smoking precision
Hello,
I am trying to Decide between the G30-900 1.06A/R T4 - G35-900 1.06A/R T4 or EFR8474 .92 IWG. I have a N54 Engine - Divided and Equal Length Manifold top Mount 6 Speed. I will be running 93 with Meth Port but will mainly be a Street car "lots of highway". I don't want something to Laggy my goal is just around 700whp maybe a tad lower. I love all the Tech of the EFR as well although not sure exactly what to choose. Would love some insight.
The EFR is light years ahead of Garrett. I have other TH-camrs who are subscribers who have run the G-series turbos and changed to EFR after a Garrett failure. They have nothing but raving compliments about thE EFR - the GAMMA-TI turbine is unreal in its response and linearity during Highway use. It’s cheaper, better quality product and by far a more reliable bearing system and the cooling internally is way better than the Garrett g-Series product. You won’t go wrong with EFR!
Hello. Thank you very much for going over this turbo. You mention it would be good for a 2.2 or 2.4L 4 Cly. I have been doing a ton of research and watched all your videos and have had a really tough time figuring out a turbo for my project. It's a 2GR-FE engine, Toyota 3.5L. Sadly my clutch and axles can only support 500 tq and 7000 rpm redline, so I am limited to 660 HP absolute max power. The BW matchbot says my max boost is going to be ~12 psi. Is this a good turbo for this application, or is it too big? I am looking for minimal lag because of the max power limitation. The non-black EFR8474 seems to fit perfectly on the matchbox when using E85. Thank you very much, I appreciate all of the hard work you put into these videos. You deserve many more likes and subscribes.
Thank you for the comment - the 8474 is perfectly suited to the engine, the engine is large and a smaller turbo will spool fast yes, but the power wont hold until to the higher rpm range - the smaller turbo will also require more boost to make the same power, and generate higher temperatures. The 8474 will spool fast on that size engine and make the power with low boost and low temperatures. I would use the smaller AR housing and internal gate with medium boost actuator.
@@TurboDirectSA Awesome. Thank you for the confirmation. Only way I was able to figure that out is because I learned something from you every video! Have a great day.
@@tweakgames Thats great news buddy - glad you enjoying the channel.
The Garrett turbine is a 68mm OD wheel, not nearly "the same size" as the 74mm OD 8474 wheel, although it could have the same or lower rotational inertia as the G35 due to the TiAl wheel.
3mm either side of the inducer of the turbine which weighs 40% less in total side by side - will make no difference in rotational speed at all. The design and drag coefficient of the compressor and shaft power based on the design of the turbine wheel have everything to do with rotational speed.
Came back to your channel as I’m deciding on a turbo (for street car/road racing purposes) looking for good spool and power all through the power band. Engine is a built 2jz VVTI ,9.6:1CR ,Kelford V202-C cams, 4” DP to 3.5” exhaust, looking for 600-700whp on Pump 93 + Meth (best available thing in my country) my choices were between the G35-900 1.06AR, EFR 8374 1.45AR and 8474 0.92AR
Thanks Levi - I would steer you to the EFR8474 without a doubt - the G35-900 will just about make the power you want, and youll absolutely max the turbo out doing it. Its also started to show unreliability issues with shaft breakages and split seal ring failures.... beware
The EFR8474 will spool fast and easily make the power you want and then some. I would go for the AR92 turbine housing T5 twin scroll IWG
@@TurboDirectSA thanks for the reply
@@levicharles4499 Pleasure Levi
can you do a tech talk or a comparison of precision vs garrett or Borgwarner. aswell would like to see the xona rotor turbo review?
Thanks for the comment, precision is not an OEM turbocharger and something we wouldn't spend money on for the sake of a video. We have many failed precision turbochargers which arent in a condition to use for a comparison. The xona rotor is also not worth the money when you compare costs to the OEM giants who already have reliable and exceptionally well performing turbochargers. You cant go wrong with the OEM's from a support, specification, reliability, and price point of view. This is my opinion, based on personal experience.
Not bad. The EFR 8474 Black series seems the way to go, however, how does it compare to the 9174, the R2S, and the S300...for an 800 HP M3 f80?
I hear one is very fuel efficient, the next, I hear is lag free.
Will 2 twin scrolled turbo chargers be the optimal choice for optimal fuel economy and maximum performance?
The EFR8474 will outspool the 9174 and the journal bearing options by far. The power capability of the 8474 exceeds that of your requirement, leaving you with some power in reserve. The EFR is also IWG which makes tuning that much easier once you fabricate a bracket to bolt onto the turbine housing and use the stock electronic actuator.
I was set on the g30-770 until i saw your comparison videos and have started looking at the efr range. What would your choice be for a K24? The BW uses bigger wheels but I'm only looking at it because it's one of their newer turbos that is comparitable to the G30-770
The EFR8370 will absolutely destroy the G30-770 aswell as the G30-900 in both spool and outright performance. The rotating assembly turns slower than the Garrett, with better cooling, and overall much more reliable design.
@@TurboDirectSA How does it beat them in spool if you say the rotating assembly turns slower? It's wild that a turbo over a decade ago is better than garretts newest range
@@vongdong10 Operational speed has as much to do with Spool performance as tire pressure has to do with compression ratio in an engine. Its the weight of the GAMMA TI material used on the EFR series weighs less than 50% of the Inconel or MARM 247 material used by Garrett - the fact that the operational rotational speeds of the EFR unit are 20-30000rpm lower (at max RPM) will require less time to reach operational flow rates, and the compressors flow more than the Garrett counterparts pound for pound. The slower the rotational RPM at a specific air flow, the better the efficiency -- EFR is MUCH more efficient compared to Garrett (input work versus output work)
@@TurboDirectSA wow. BW were really ahead of the game yet garret and precision are so popular
@@vongdong10 Thats right - Borg's marketing is inferior to the others - but their product is by far better in every way. BorgWarner is a much larger company than both Garrett and Precision put together. They own many companies ncluding Delphi, Denso, Beru, etc
Hi Chris, I like your video!!! I’m from France and I research a quick spooler turbo for my bmw e36 M50B28 stroker (2.8L engine 6 cylinder inline) in order to have 650whp (in the future more, 800whp). The best choice is the EFR 8474? Or gtx4202r? Gtx3584rs? GTX3582r? Thank you and shootout from France 🇫🇷
Welcome to the channel Izi - there are a few options for your setup that will make this power. The GTX4202 is way too large for this power, and will be laggy. The EFR8474 Black is an option, but you can make this power with this turbo here:- turbodirect.co.za/store/index.php/shop/turbochargers/g3582r1-forged-detail
This is a hybrid build we produce in-house using proven GTX Gen2 components and a revised G35 compressor wheel that flows the claimed power.
Agp sells a vband housing for 8474. It is .82 a/r turbo inlet 3.0 and turbine outlet is 3.625.
Will this be a good turbo for 1.5JZ looking for 600-700hp?
The BorgWarner IWG turbine housing is already an AR83 - similar sized, but with T3 inlet flange. Either way this will work well for your power target! You might want to consider he EFR8370 aswell
@TurboDirectSA Good day to you. My current setup 1jz/vvti EFR7163 turbo, custom manifold v-band/external wastegate. I was limited 420hp @ 5500 ft elevation. Looking at a 8474. AGP sells V Band housing for .63/.82/1.05 a/r. What would you suggest for the 1jz/vvti?
In previous post you said externally gate introduce lag is their any way to mitigate this aside from buying a new manifold?
Can you just replace the compressor wheel on the 8374 and then you will be a 8474 turbo?
Yes, this is how the Black series was born.
Subscribed. Thanks for the excellent content and detailed information. I have a few questions. On a fully built 2014 WRX STI 2.5 liter engine, can the EFR 8474 with an IWG and .92 A/R configuration make 800 wheel horsepower on E85 fuel, or will I need to upgrade to the EFR 9274? Secondly, what will be the spool characteristics between the EFR 8474 and the EFR 9274?
Thanks for the comment - the EFR8474 Black will easily make this power and then some on the EJ25 engine. Ofcourse the engine would need to be able to use the flow from the turbo, you might need supporting upgrades, but the turbo will make this power with relatively ease.
@@TurboDirectSA what about a 2.1l stroker (2.0l block with 79mm crank) on pump gas for 450whp, would you recommend the 8374, 8474 or the 9174? How would you think the spool would be?
@@SammichPurple All the turbo will make this power, BUT they will all make the power at different engine RPM -- you need to choose which suits your application (drag, street, drift, circuit etc) For street i would choose the 8370 to be honest, it is capable of alot more than your target HP, and will spool faster than the 83 and 84 series units -
@@TurboDirectSA thank you. Im getting mixed info on the specs of the 8370, is it 4inch inlet 2 inch outlet on the compressor side?
@@SammichPurple Yes correct - keep in mind that you can choose different housing options from the SXE range -- but the stock housing is 4" and 2" as you mentioned.
Is the back version a different version of the 8474? Or its the same
The Black is the upgrade to the EFR8374 -- named the 8474
Would that be a good choice for 2.9 liter V6 with big port heads ? Looking for max torque 3500-4000rpm, boost maintained up to 6800rpm
What engine? Multi-valve head? VW VR6? What compression?
Audi S4 B5 engine - 9.3:1 compression, 30 valve head.
Stroker from 2.7 to 2.9 and single turbo planned.
@@PYG60 I would suggest using the EFR8370 for this setup for the max torque to be produced around 3500-4000RPM - the 8474 will produce the torque peak higher up in the RPM range im afraid.
Hi... so i took your advice and got the 8474 with a 09ar iwg.
I was worried about a slow spool time but boy was i wrong.
It makes 5psi a 3900 and 40psi at 4700. It maintains a slighty rising torque curve all the way to 9200rpm. 946hp.
Thanks again for the advice.
May I say the following - ‘I told you so, and I’m ecstatic that you followed my advise - good for you! Now you know what Borg is about, light years ahead of Garrett!’
@TurboDirectSA Yes you may sir..lol..
What's more......
I was going through the logs last night...
The turbos drive pressure is 9psi LOWER than boost at 26psi!
And only 5psi over at 40psi..
I am amazed at how good this turbo is...
Thanks again for your advice and sharing your experience.
@@gfarnden56 Awesome news - enjoy it.
Hi again, iv talked to a guy that put a efr 9180 with .83 housing onto his 4.0 barra engine. He said the .83 was physically larger than the Ford stock 1.06 exhaust housing. My question is, is the newer efr8474 .83 housing physically the same size as the efr 9180 .83? Thanks
The 9180 and 8474 share the identical turbine housing. It will not be too large, don't worry. It has low back-pressure, but will spool more than fast enough.
@@TurboDirectSA great thanks, you are a very helpful Legend!
@@TurboDirectSA is the new black series 8474 better than the 9180? I was suppose to buy a smaller turbo. The 8374, 9174, turbos was sold out. So I went with the 9180 but I see the black series came out. This is for my boosted k24 stock motor.
@@TeamIPhone360 Buddy the 8474 Black is a loaded gun - this is the perfect setup for the K24 motors. It will spool great and make more power than most drivetrains can handle. The 9180 is laggy compared to the 8474 BUT still plenty power.
@@TurboDirectSA will the efr 8474 black make more power than the 9180? If so I may switch turbos. What other good efr black turbos could I go with?
Realistically what power can you get with the 8474 with a forged ea113 2L tfsi ( revving to 8,000rpm)?
This is limited by what air flow the engine is able to use and put to good use. If all things considered and the engine is able to (assumptions here) able to flow more air than the turbo is capable of, then you will see a realistic 950+HP without a doubt.
IF however the engine is not able to put to good use the air flow that this or any other turbo can flow, don't expect to see the HP figures that the turbo is capable of.
One thing I forgot to ask, will the twinscroll internally gated fit at the back of the engine bay ? How much bigger (longer) is it compared to 7163 internal wastegate ? Right Hand Drive 6R
@@NelsonSakwa This you will need to have a custom manifold fabricated, the 8474 is larger than the 7163 for sure, but depending on the orientation of the actuator, it can fit.
@@TurboDirectSA I already have a custom t4 manifold, thanks. We'll see if it fits
Hi again, I have a xr6 turbo with the 4.0 barra engine. A gen 2 gtx3582r with a stock ford 1.06 turbine housing on 98 pump gas at 18-20 psi generally make 400rwkw. Will this efr 8474 be comparable, will it spool quicker or slower? I am limited by my stock zf auto trans and don't want more than 400-420 rwkws. Thanks
The EFR8474 will spool faster, and has nice options with T4 twin scroll housings. Side by side with the AR1.05 T4 twin scroll housing option the turbo will outperform the GTX35R and at a lower rotational speed and much better cooling.
@@TurboDirectSA does it have a t3 1.05 or 1.06 turbine housing option or only t4?
Wondering if I could bolt it up to stock fg xr6t t3 log style manifold. Thanks
@@farmer3242 T3 AR83, and then T4 AR92 IWG -- then the AR1.05 is T4 also BUT externally gated.
@@farmer3242 It will - even though the AR number is 83, the physical volute dimensions are quite large if you put the AR1.06 and AR83 side by side. The spool will be improved and the performance aswell without a doubt.
Great video as always Chris, very informative
I'm contemplating switching from 8374 1.05 to 8474, currently 650hp at wheel, but I can see my boost drop from 28psi to 25 btwn 4k to 7.5k, been suggested due to insufficient turbine flow and exhaust backpressure, running 4" from turbine to 3.5" from midway
In your opinion, is this a case of insufficient flow and moving to 8474 with same 1.05 will only compound the issue with more lag?
Thank you buddy - what engine is the 8374 installed on? I doubt that the PSI drop is due to an exhaust system. 3.5" is still large enough for this size turbine. The AR1.05 is also a large turbine housing, so backpressure will exist, but not that much that it would cause a pressure drop. Im suspecting a boost leak somewhere - installing a speed sensor in this case would give you eyes into whats going on - if there was a boost leak, you would see a speed increase as the pressure drops off - the upgrade to the 8474 Black is a massive jump in HP, and will maintain the same response.
Let me know more about the project and ill share some info for you.
@@TurboDirectSA on a fully built 2.0 evo x would this be an ideal turbo for track and canyon use?
@@ML-kr3ih What you need to do is ascertain what the slowest corners you would be anticipating and where you would lie in the engine RPM range in those corners, to make sure you have response to get out the corners. If you have a very tight track that you frequent, then you would need a responsive turbocharger, also if you want more response than HP - then smaller units would work well.
Give me more info and ill guide you from there
@@TurboDirectSA I am gonna be frequenting button willow if that makes sense. What would you recommend on the efr for the most responsive turbo.
@@ML-kr3ih lots of tight corners from looking at pictures of the track - not sure how fast they are or what gear youll be in and the engine rpm in the slower corners. What HP target do you have in mind? Los of options, but HP is the limiting factor.
Would you say this turbo would be a good choice for the Australian Ford Barra engine for about 600 WHP? The Barra is a 4 litre 6 with twin cams, 24 valves and VVT. The stock turbo that comes on the XR6T is a Garrett 3576 internally wastegated. How do you think that the 8474 twin scroll compare with the responsiveness of the stock turbo?
The EFR8474 would absolutely destroy the Garrett 35 family on the Barra, it will outpsool, and outperform by leaps and bounds. There are much better suited turbine housings (IWG and EWG) for this size engine from Borg, with twin scroll flange faces, which will spool the same as stock and make alot more power.
@@TurboDirectSA Wow, thanks for the quick response. What size EFR would you recommend for the Barra with the power target mentioned? I would stay with twin scroll IWG types for response and ease of plumbing. The main factors would be equal or better low RPM response but not running out of steam before the 6000 RPM redline.
@@brianbrigg57 The largest IWG housing is the AR92 the part# is 12747100019 with the iron bearing housing and turbine housing part# 12741008001. For the aluminium bearing housing you will need the part# 12747100017 with same turbine housing.
@@TurboDirectSA So the EFR8474 would be a good choice for this application even if I'm only looking for 600 WHP?
@@brianbrigg57 Absolutely - why run a smaller turbo to its max capacity to make the required power, when a larger turbo will easily make this with plenty in reserve (less boost, less heat, more reliable) and still spool like the original turbo did, in fact it will spool faster than the Stock turbo on the Barra.
Hi Chris Love the videos! I have a r34 gtr 2.8 litre. I’m running a g42 1250 compact and was wondering what would
Be a better turbo to go with for lower rpm response. Still want to
Remaining making over 1000hp
1000HP sector the best responding turbo is the EFR8474 Black Series. The G42-1200 will not make 1200HP anyway, and the turbine stage is much larger than the EFR8474 - this is where your lag is coming from.
We made 1072hp (799.8 kw) at the wheels. On 38 psi. So you saying the 8474 is the way to go? What kind of power would it max out at?
@@codakanjo6690 You will see faster spool certainly, and you will see around 950HP max, once again its difficult to pin point power output because every dyno is different, everyone uses a different sea level correction factor, or SAE calculation etc -- on our 4WD dyno as a comparison a stock vehicle produces + - 5-7.5% less than the manufacturer claimed power at the flywheel, and the most we have seen on a 3rotor using the G42-1200 compact was 694WKW which is 105WKW less than your dyno - at 3.2bar gauge pressure at 5500feet above sea level - so this turbo was working hard!
I own a 2.8 RB26 and have ran many EFR Turbos. You won't make G42 like power with an EFR. 8474 will choke your 2.8 if you want to push for all out power potential. If you want G42-1200 like power with better response go see the results Supra guys are getting when switching from the G42-1200 to the G40-1150
@@boris9331 What EFR turbos have you run?
What you are showing at from about 10:25 is something I have seen and noticed before. The pen is pointed from the CHRA side, not the exducer side. The exhaust flow is therefore toward the CHRA and not toward the downpipe. I don't get why this is beneficial. The exhaust has to bend more than the 90 degees is has to turn in a radial turbine design, right?
Controversial as i said. The turbine blades in the EFR8474 specifically are ground differently to the EFR7163 as an example. The sharp Inducer blade angle suits the mixed flow turbine design as compared to the solid disc back turbine wheel of the 8474, BUT the angle of the back disc and the associated root (shape of the wheel with blades removed) points to an angle that resembles the mixed flow design. Borg do not advertise this as anything like a mixed flow design, but as above, the angle direction against the root angle resemble that of the lesser angle gas path. Also the angle of the gas path inside the turbine housing at the tongue, shows a lesser angle.
a 100% 90 degree angle is definitely pure radial, a more 45deg (more or less) resembles that of a mixed flow. hope that helps some.
@@TurboDirectSA I think that this looks more like the angle from the center of the volute to the axial outflow from the turbinewheel looks more like 120 degrees than less than 90 degrees and that is what i do not understand. : i.imgur.com/aiWhR1d.png
Here is what they claim: i.imgur.com/7skKaOl.png
@@finnroen2334 I hear you Fin - these are not advertised as true mixed flow turbine designs, and this is why i said its a controversial topic - if you look at the angle of the gas path entry into the turbine inducer, its not radial either..... hence my comment. Secondly and specifically on the 7163, look at the inducer blade angle as it transitions from inducer to the profile leading to the exducer - its typical of the mixed flow design.
@@finnroen2334 Correct - blade design and angle of gas path into the inducer blades.
Opinion on use for n55?
What HP?
I saw there was a SXE261 that used a S200 Bearing housing and turbine wheel but with a SXE362 compressor wheel and reprofiled cover. How would this turbo perform on a K24 FWD setup. Revving to 8k built motor etc. looking for fast response but additional flow over the SXE257. What do you think of this combination?
Liam, the short cut to "making big power cheaply" doesnt work. The turbine does not have the shaft power (see the matchbot app for more on shaft power) to drive the enlarged compressor stage. The Thrust assembly in the bearing system will not handle the oversized/mismatched compressor from the S300SXE family. You looking for power, and in order to make power, you need increased air flow, especially with the high revving Honda engines, choose a matched turbocharger for the job, based on the HP target you have in mind.
@@TurboDirectSA In terms of cost, the SXE257 and SXE362 are very relative in terms of cost. So it is not a matter of cost. Yes match bot can be a very efficient manner to diagnose the most ideal setup for certain motors. But particularly in Garret setups I have noticed particularly in the GTX3582 designs that they use a 68MM inducer and 62MM on the exducer on the turbine side. Distinguished by the 35. But still manage to make a HP output of about 750-800hp range. Suggesting that the turbine wheel is capable of supporting about 750-800hp. Even though the compressor wheel is rated at 900hp. Since even you stated that Garret over rates their compressor HP ratings. Which I strongly agree with. While Borg and Garret absolutely use different turbine wheel designs for exhaust gas flow and efficiency. I still find that the 61MM/83MM vs 70MM/61MM on the SXE261 to be within range of not being mismatched. Yes not ideal. Also didn’t borg recently come out with a EFR8370? Yes the SXE261 won’t flow what the SXE362 is rated for due to decreased turbine wheel size but I’m under the assumption it will still pick up an additional 5-6Lb/min of airflow with a bit of additional lag. I think the durability issue is negligible since the compressor wheel isn’t severely oversized and the thrust bearing design is extremely robust in terms of reliability and endurance.
@@Ravenn2k Garrett GT3582R is a ball bearing turbo - no comparison to the S200SXE and S300SXE journal bearing units. This is not an apples with apples comparison. The Shaft power (design, back pressure, rotational speeds etc) are nothing the same as the superior BorgWarner product. Mismatched = journal bearing, the compressor thrust loads will destroy the thrust assembly, thats why there is an S200 and larger S300 model.
The 8370 is ball bearing once again, the BB cartridge is able to handle 50times the thrust of any journal bearing setup.
@@TurboDirectSA perfect thank you. I’ll examine that closer.
@@Ravenn2k Pleasure - remember we have paid these school fees physically, this is why i am commenting on this with conviction, been there done that, and paid the price.
Hi, is the 0.83 a/r iwg t3 turbine housing right choice for 8474 on 2jz engine ?
Anil - for a street application with very good boost response it is yes. For higher top end HP use the AR92 T4 housing or AR1.05
@@TurboDirectSA just a street, maks 7400 rpm.
@@trancenergy09 Will suit the engine perfectly.
@@TurboDirectSA Hi Chris, again me :)
I want to ask one more question.
There is 340$ differences between 8474 turbo with .83 iwg housing and 9174 turbo with .83 iwg housing, and 300$ differences between 8474 and 9174 .92 divided t4 housings. Also, around 200$ differences between .83 t3 iwg and .92 t4 iwg housings. 9174 is cheaper.
As i mention before my goal is street build and a few roll racing. Setup will be build block, 264 cams, pocket porting and redline around 7k - 7.5k rpm.
Which one would you choice considering the price differences and build specs?Thanks for your help.
@@trancenergy09 This is a good question, and the costs to manufacture certain products and housing options will differ based on the complexity of the part being manufactured. Choosing a turbo based more on price than its functionality and match to your project is a trap - you will soon wish that you chose the right turbo for the install and the money you "saved" was something you would spend immediately in hind sight once the setup is complete and you experience lag or something else that you could have avoided if you chose the right turbo from the start.
Why WG don’t make an EFR 8474 .92 EWG!!!
I just bought one but my car is setup with Turbo smart external WG, dunno what I am gonna do, I didn’t want a 1.05 I also have an IS300 Forged 2JZGE-T currently e85 and making 600hp on 30psi on AF 6662 .82ar D BB turbo.
Pls advice what I shall do!
Why did you choose the incorrect turbine housing? Go back to where you purchased the turbo from and change the turbine housing.
@@TurboDirectSA it was a private sale and a bargain lol, i will just resell the .92 IWG housing (junk), i have already sourced a 1.05ar Twin Stroll housing EWG. But my Q remains, why BW doesn't make them in EWG for the 0.82ar or 0.92ar in the EFR series!!?? i mean they do make them in the Airwork series, and its quite odd if you ask me. EFR 8474 .82 or .92ar EWG Twin Stroll would be a perfect responsive turbo.
The AR92 is a great housing, wrks very well - we have had amazing results with this housing. EWG is not always necessary.@@Elkurdi2017
My reputable tuner in SYD said the IWG is for smaller hp applications all of the big boys use EWG, and since im on 700hp id need another EWG, i gone ahead got the 1.05ar now but i wish they made .92ar with EWG. @@TurboDirectSA
hi Chris! Please make a comparison of efr 8374 and efr 8370 turbos for vw 2.0 20v stroker, thanks!
Hey Ramzan, the 8370 is a smaller turbine, and will spool alot faster than the 8374, and will make the same output give or take 10-15HP - This is clear and concise from the spec sheet. If its spool and a good 750HP+ setup you building the 8370 is a great choice.
@@TurboDirectSA Thanks a lot Chris for the quick response! And another question - which A / R housing to choose for 650 hp. for my 2 liter engine in case of application: 1. twiscroll and 2. single-scroll?
I have a Fullrace single-scroll t3 collector, should I replace the collector with a twin-scroll?
@@chanalusupovroman On smaller engines always try stick to twin scroll to get the most out of spool and response where the housing is available - if the AR of the twin scroll housing is large, then the single scroll will still work
so there is non black series of 8474 ? i am confused!
There is an 8374 and the 8474Black - these two turbos are different in the compressor wheel design only -
@@TurboDirectSA so all 8474 out there is also known as 8474 black then
@@mkivst180 Yes correct - download the EFR catalogue here, for all the info inside including compressor maps, housing options etc.
www.borgwarner.com/aftermarket/boosting-technologies/performance-turbochargers/downloads
Does a 8374 spool quicker than 8474?
It will be negligible between these two.
@@TurboDirectSA Please back to back test both before making those claims
@@boris9331 These guys dont make claims, they base comments on facts, you should know better after watching videos on this channel.
@@boris9331 These are not claims we have done the tests on an RB26 back to back. The results speak for themselves and my comments are not opinion, they are fact.
8474 are out of stock everywhere. What is going on at Borg Warner?
I know!!! Its very bad - We are all on a backorder list.
@@TurboDirectSA Any reasons as to why? Material issue, staffing problem, or just manufacturing delays?
@@minni1094 Im told that the destruction of the main warehouse facility last year by bad weather caused a massive delay in many lines including the EFR and airwerks products, but mostly in the OEM line - which obviously takes preference for obvious reasons.
@TurboDirect S.A 1st time hearing about losing a warehouse. Well that sucks for me I'm all in on 8474. No timetable huh?
@@minni1094 Pity - no info from Borg. We havent had stock in over a year!
Hahaha awesome funny!
Great facts too
Thanks for the comments