TURBO FLUTTER and BLOW OFF VALVES explained in DETAIL - BOOST SCHOOL #8

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 เม.ย. 2024
  • Go Fast Bits: gfb.com.au/
    GFB TMS Respons: gfb.com.au/products/blow-off-...
    The BOV from this video: gfb.com.au/products/blow-off-...
    Let's imagine a concrete scenario. You have your foot on the throttle and you're flooring it. The throttle plate is wide open and the engine is trying to make the most powerful combustions it can and as such it's also producing a lot of exhaust gasses very rapidly. These exhaust gasses drive the turbine wheel which then spins the compressor wheel as they're connected together with a common shaft. The more exhaust gasses are being sent into the turbo the faster the compressor wheel spins and the more it compresses the air.
    So when the throttle plate is fully open we have both high airflow and high air pressure. We have high air flow because the throttle plate is fully open and there is no restriction to airflow. We have high air pressure because the turbo is working hard to compress the air and stuff more of it into the same space.
    So what happens when we release the throttle? What happens is that we transition from a situation of high airflow and high pressure into a situation of low air flow and even higher pressure. The rapidly flowing pressurized air coming from the turbo suddenly hits a dead end and has nowhere to go. At the same time the turbo is still rapidly spinning and trying to keep stuffing the air into the engine which it can't do because the throttle plate is closed and this blockage further increases the pressure in the piping.
    Now the blades of the compressor wheel are designed to „grab“ the air and push it onto the engine. In a situation where we have enough air pressure and enough airflow followed by a sudden closing of the throttle plate the dramatic drop in airflow and subsequent pressure spike can actually overpower the aerodynamic capabilities of the compressor wheel blades which results in them no longer being able to „grab“ onto the air causing compressor surge aka turbo flutter.
    If you look at a compressor map of any turbocharger the left-most line is your surge line. Everything left of that line is the surge zone.
    In the simplest of terms when compressor surge or turbo flutter occurs it means that there is too much air pressure and too little air flow for the compressor wheel to do it's job. When this happens the air has nowhere left to go and it carries so much pressure that it can actually force its way back through the turbo, past the compressor blades and out the intake. This wrong way out actually becomes the only exit path for the high pressure air. Compressor surge in a car engine is almost never powerful enough to stop a turbo from spinning and it can never cause a turbo to start spinning in reverse. But what it can definitely do is slow the turbo down and shorten the lifespan off the turbo as it exposes it to increased stress.
    The sound of compressor surge or turbo flutter and is often voiced as stutututu or chu chu chu chu.....in fact each of those stu or chu is a small chunk of air separating from the blades and escaping past the compressor wheel out the intake. The first stu is going to be the loudest because it has the most pressure behind it and each subsequent stu will be less loud until all the excess air pressure is gone.
    So how do we get rid of compressor surge or turbo flutter that occurs when we release the throttle? The answer is simple - instead of relieving pressure back out past the compressor wheel we relieve the pressure somewhere else.
    And that's exactly what a BOV or a blow-off valve does. It gets rid of the excess air pressure in the piping when you suddenly release the throttle. By getting rid of the excess air pressure at a different location we do not subject the turbocharger o the increased stresses associated with turbo flutter.
    A blow-off valve has a piston inside it. When the throttle is wide open both the top and the bottom of the piston see the same air pressure because the top of the blow-off valve piston references pressure from inside the intake manifold. But when the throttle plate closes the top of the BOV sees vacuum and the bottom boost pressure. This means that the boost pressure can easily overpower the spring on top of the piston and open a path for the pressurized air either to be vented to atmosphere (blow-off) or recirculated in front of the turbo inlet (re-circulation or diverter valve)
    A special thank you to my patrons:
    Daniel
    Peter Della Flora
    Daniel Morgan
    William
    Richard Caldwell
    Pepe
    Brian Durning
    Brian Alvarez
    D4A merch: d4a-store.creator-spring.com/...
    Patreon: / d4a​
    #d4a #boostschool #stutututu
    00:00 What is turbo flutter (compressor surge)?
    08:40 How a BOV prevents flutter
    12:07 How a BOV works
    13:55 Where to install a BOV
    14:30 When a BOV can't help
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  • @d4a
    @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +81

    Go Fast Bits: gfb.com.au/
    GFB TMS Respons: gfb.com.au/products/blow-off-and-diverter-valves/respons-tms/
    The BOV from this video: gfb.com.au/products/blow-off-and-diverter-valves/respons-tms/respons-tms-t9033-adjustable-bias-venting-diverter-valve-bov-detail/
    Let's hang out: superpeer.com/driving4answers
    Support d4a: driving-4-answers-shop.fourthwall.com/

    • @fastinradfordable
      @fastinradfordable 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I would like to know about my Stu tu tu tu is with a diesel with no throttle, and variable turbo

    • @callumhaig1624
      @callumhaig1624 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@fastinradfordable same here, have a vw twin seq. turbo with a air snorkel aimed at the driver ;)

    • @petegeralis7076
      @petegeralis7076 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Listen besides boost school, I say you call it the “School of Spool”

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@petegeralis7076 Good one! Might use that some day. Thanks!

    • @petegeralis7076
      @petegeralis7076 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@d4a definitely do!

  • @PRgabo
    @PRgabo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2958

    I can't believe he actually made a graph of the stututu sound. This guy is a legend!

    • @complexeddrummer
      @complexeddrummer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +36

      That's a turbo efficiency chart. It's based on rpm, displacement, and boost volume. You use these to properly match a turbo setup with your engine setup to ensure the amount of exhaust pressure your engine will produce, your engine's expected air requirements, and the turbo's ability to push air line up effectively. Most people think "bigger turbo, faster car," but this isn't the case. If you're too far out of the turbo's efficiency curve, you'll starve or overload the block. Watch Donut media's video on boosting the Miata for a good breakdown of using that chart

    • @wscap4576
      @wscap4576 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He's a beast rite

    • @frazierl7898
      @frazierl7898 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@complexeddrummer I didn't know that's how that works but it makes sense

    • @jahraizer250
      @jahraizer250 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

      U don't graph your stu-tu-tu noises?
      .... novice

    • @fuckyougoogleupthearse5725
      @fuckyougoogleupthearse5725 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@complexeddrummer he's talking about the chart after that one. The one that had disco stu in it

  • @somerandoonline5852
    @somerandoonline5852 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1201

    the man literally got his shirt wet as hell trying to explain throttle position, i tip my hat to u sir, ur commitment to educating others has no limit

    • @uwot9021
      @uwot9021 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      it's literally just water on his shirt

    • @princesssolace4337
      @princesssolace4337 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I thought it was coolant😅

    • @stephendent178
      @stephendent178 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      But what or how do I fix it

    • @UnnamedThe
      @UnnamedThe 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@princesssolace4337 Water is just human coolant tbh

    • @gasolineinhale2261
      @gasolineinhale2261 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@UnnamedThe i never thought of it like that

  • @caffeinatedbean8281
    @caffeinatedbean8281 2 ปีที่แล้ว +451

    Your water example was priceless 😂

  • @micsub
    @micsub 2 ปีที่แล้ว +840

    It takes a very smart person to explain complex subjects in a simple way for non-familiarized people to understand easily.
    Thanks once again for such an educative video. I enjoy absolutely each and every one of them !

  • @JaketheB3AST
    @JaketheB3AST 2 ปีที่แล้ว +339

    The amount of information in the video is INSANE. Mad props to you sir. This video needs to go viral so people actually understand what’s going on to clear up the many misconceptions we have in the car community. You’ve gained a subscriber.

  • @peekaboo1575
    @peekaboo1575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +268

    All this BOV talk reminds me of a system Ford came up with for their Focus WRC car in the late 90s/early 00s.
    World Rally Cars have intake restrictors to keep the power down. Ford created a 'tank' at the back of the car which would capture all the air that would otherwise be vented off by the BOV. When the driver was off throttle this tank would be filled up with compressed air, which would be available for the engine once the driver floored it again.
    Once the FIA found out about it (it took them a few rallys IIRC) they were quick to ban it because in their eyes it negated the purpose of the intake restrictor by allowing more air than what should be available for the engine, even if only for a brief period of time.

    • @ihxE.
      @ihxE. 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Very interesting, thank you for sharing this.

    • @dimitriskefalouros1628
      @dimitriskefalouros1628 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Interesting

    • @wscap4576
      @wscap4576 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      O wow ive never herd of that. Thats really cool i might give it a try

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +137

      I remember this! It was really cool. Should I make a video about it?

    • @frazierl7898
      @frazierl7898 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

      @@d4a that would be sick. You've earned my sub.

  • @jkvdv4447
    @jkvdv4447 2 ปีที่แล้ว +106

    Twist the knob until it blows off... Interesting advice.

    • @lbarkyl1807
      @lbarkyl1807 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Pfffx x ddddd

    • @crackedemerald4930
      @crackedemerald4930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      "turning this knob is pure pleasure"

    • @Official_Dee5iveTV
      @Official_Dee5iveTV 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Are we still talking about turbos 🤔👀😂😂

    • @lalocura1828
      @lalocura1828 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      This comment was the best thing ever. Basically huh?

  • @danilo86petrovic
    @danilo86petrovic 2 ปีที่แล้ว +169

    If every teacher had your approach of explaining things, 1 by 1 chronologically, where would be our limit...?!? Thank you for your effort!!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

  • @markthomas36
    @markthomas36 2 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    As a longtime mechanic, I would have to say that this is the best presented explanation as to why a bov is needed in a turbo circuit! Well done

    • @DriftNick
      @DriftNick 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      But you don't need one.

    • @moiseslopez7831
      @moiseslopez7831 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well I have a 2013 Mercedes-Benz c250 and it has a turbo and I have a bov, but my mechanic toll me that it caused turbo lag and that was the reason that every time I accelerate it took a few seconds for the car to go.

    • @markthomas36
      @markthomas36 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@moiseslopez7831 Hi Moises, the problem isn’t the box, it’s the turbo. When you accelerate hard, it takes a few seconds for the turbo to spool up to a high enough speed to provide the boost required for the engine to have the power needed to accelerate. That is the reason for twin turbo engines. They have a very small turbo that speeds up very quickly to eliminate lag, but as they are small they can’t provide high boost pressure needed for high engine revs, do a second much larger turbo is I Also in the system, which provides the boost from the mid to high engine revs. I hope this explains what is happening in your Mercedes.😃

    • @moiseslopez7831
      @moiseslopez7831 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Danm, thanks 🙏 , now I'm sure that I don't need to take out my bov.

    • @DriftNick
      @DriftNick 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@markthomas36 If you have two turbos and one is bigger than the other it's not a twin turbo...

  • @ahnafzahid9450
    @ahnafzahid9450 2 ปีที่แล้ว +117

    another informative and entertaining episode of BOOST SCHOOL!!!!....Thanks again bro
    Saving it to my playlist on Turbos for future use!!!

  • @soukoukou4730
    @soukoukou4730 2 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    Stuututuuuu is priceless, that's why I wanted a turbo in the first place 😁

    • @relax9086
      @relax9086 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I actually have this sound everywhere in go and in my house, my phone ring tone, and in my life! 😂😂😂😂

    • @soukoukou4730
      @soukoukou4730 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Help me sleep better at night

    • @whiskey_icarus
      @whiskey_icarus 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I noticed my turbo flutters after i installed a larger intake. Brings me endless happiness.

  • @Slaktrax
    @Slaktrax ปีที่แล้ว +20

    These videos of yours are an important reference library for any gear-head. Thank you for your patience and good simple and sober approach to any of the subjects you cover. The humour in your diagrams is appreciated 🙂

  • @cibimbox9195
    @cibimbox9195 2 ปีที่แล้ว +72

    Shorter name of the video would be HAPPINESS EXPLAINED IN DETAIL

  • @bryce1334
    @bryce1334 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    This has got to be my most favorite automotive TH-cam Channel. The videos are perfect for someone who is a visual learner. Also this channel goes to show that a video doesn’t need to be flashy and have a huge budget to be an amazing TH-cam channel. Perfect Channel keep doing what you do best!

  • @jakebatty530
    @jakebatty530 2 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Just wanted to say thank you for your videos, I'm a trainee mechanic and have worked at a few different garages and it seems rare to find people who know what they're on about so I haven't learned as much as id liked about cars, and this channel has really helped me understand more about different parts of a car how they work what they do etc
    Fantastic content thank you

  • @gerardogonzalez3427
    @gerardogonzalez3427 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is literally my favorite video ever. I just started having turbo surge and this definitely helped me understand 100% how a turbo system works. Blessed. Thanks!!

  • @daltonrich7658
    @daltonrich7658 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I know next to nothing about turbos and this is probably the best video on TH-cam for explaining it to a newbie like me! Superb job!

  • @JeffReeves
    @JeffReeves 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Amazingly detailed yet comprehensible video on turbo flutter and blow off valves. I'm really enjoying this series! Also thoroughly enjoyed the double entendres

  • @jdb47games
    @jdb47games 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    I have seen several explanations of this, but yours is the clearest. Thanks.

  • @Oper8or
    @Oper8or 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    This is one of the best explanations of how BOV's work that i've seen. Excellent work!

  • @mindandbodymuscle5345
    @mindandbodymuscle5345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Yes, finally a channel getting to a subject I'm interested in. I will learn much and choose my kit wisely according to the bells and whistles.

  • @mlivshiz
    @mlivshiz 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    One of the best automotive channels out there. Awesome explanations of how things work. Love it.

  • @gazanever6291
    @gazanever6291 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mannnnnnnn, I appreciate this video coming from a long time car enthusiast "from afar" (always loved the curves, output, brands, prestige; never got into what's under the hood). Really easy to digest explanations/illustrations.

  • @maxcactus7
    @maxcactus7 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Another outstanding video, D4A! You never fail to make difficult topics easy to understand and interesting and fun to learn about! I hope I can buy you a beer some day.

  • @JKFab
    @JKFab 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    While I normally agree with the information you provide, I have to disagree here.
    “Off throttle” surge or turbo flutter does not cause additional strain on the turbocharger. Since the turbocharger is under its maximum thrust load during use (for example at 20psi) shutting the throttle does NOT increase this, and therefore doesn’t load the thrust components any more than they would be during normal use.
    This is very different to on throttle surge (when you are actually in the surge zone) which causes huge strain on the thrust components due to being at the working thrust load @ 20psi. This will often snap the turbine shaft clean in half.
    Having worked in the turbo industry for a few years, I’ve never seen a failure from the lack of a BOV. If you are experiencing on throttle surge, things such as anti-surge housings will allow you to push the surge line further away.
    I’ve also never noticed a difference between response between bov/no bov on a vehicle, but I run my car without one. Logically, without a bov, less air will need to be re-compressed and thus speeds up response. Although this is just a guess at best :)

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I had another commenter mention this too. I did cover on throttle flutter at the end of the video.
      What damages the turbo in off throttle surge isn't the thrust load itself. It's the shock loads of the pulsation as the excess pressure exists past the wheel.. It's rapid on-off loading or in-out of the surge zone that's the problem.
      I had another person say how they never saw damage due to no BOV. I'm pretty sure there are no bov failures out there but the attribution of their source becomes subjective because bearing damage is bearing damage and the same damage can be attributed to multiple different sources.
      It's true that off throttle flutter is harmless, but that's only when boost is low. This is why some early turbo cars didn't have bovs or recirc valves. But they ran like 7-8psi (0.5bar) of boost. I believe the thinking that bovs are useless may come from this era.Today you have cars that run 1.2-1.5 bar from the factory, and they all have recirc valves. In fact all factory boosted cars today have recirc valves. Looking at it simplistically, if off throttle flutter was really harmless and bovs useless than factory cars would never have them and would happily flutter along. Anti surge housings definitely help but they can't get rid of flutter on high boost applications.

    • @JKFab
      @JKFab 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      @@d4a While I would agree with your assumption, that’s not how it works in the practical world.
      In all turbos (both JB and BB), theres actually no contact between bearings & shaft during operation, same with the thrust washer & bearing. The so called “shock loading” your talking about would only see an effect if you had a drop on oil pressure or oil contamination, allowing for contact.
      When exposed to on throttle surge, it doesn’t actually harm the bearings. It can, at most, overwhelm the thrust bearing and cause a failure there. But that’s only the case if the thrust collar & bearings surface area isn’t big enough to cope. The shaft will 99% of times snap before the thrust bearing is overloaded in a surge scenario
      I run 1.4 bar through my turbo, and have experienced no issue. I have customers who run 1.8-2 bar through their turbos with no bov either.
      Just because modern manufacturers use recirc valves, doesn’t mean it’s to prevent damage. They were implemented due to noise & emission reduction, not for turbo longetivity.
      I’m talking from personal experience working in the industry. Maybe I’ve just been extremely lucky with all my applications, but I don’t think that’s the case. Each to their own.

    • @LollyLover54
      @LollyLover54 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@d4a Im not saying this is the definite case. But from factory they dont want loud noises that may concern the customer

    • @mbaset
      @mbaset 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have to agree with JK_Fab here. Compressor surge under WOT will kill turbos. There is no need to for me to provide any detail as he explained it well.
      In saying that driving 4 answers, loving your videos, much love from Australia

    • @TzouPhotography
      @TzouPhotography ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JKFab Hello mate, i wanna ask a question that lays in my head for 2 years now... I have a GOLF VI twincharged 1.4 around 235hp with 1.5 bar... I have a cold air intake installed AFTER the maf sensor.. and a stock bov.. i want that flutter sound so bad and I don't know how to achieve it.. nobody of my friends will help me because my car is the slowest..
      I've seen many videos but not for my engine.. One thing i know is that it doesn't matter the size of the turbo because another friend of mine has the Vw up 1.0 stock, and it flutters like a supra. Thing is his car dosent come with a bov from the factory and also his intake filter is installed ON the turbo.. idk im too confused.. should i just unplug my bov? But then i get a funny noise... Or block the bov somehow ?
      I hope you see this.. and help me

  • @lindsaydempsey5683
    @lindsaydempsey5683 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Another great video, thank you. Great to see the evolution of the channel, production values have really improved as has the storytelling/quality of the explanations offered. Keep up the good work :)

  • @ejrupp9555
    @ejrupp9555 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great job man, loved your analogy of the water hammer effect and how you transposed that to gas compression.

  • @jacopieterse138
    @jacopieterse138 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    So this is the video that they show to the infants in day care ....
    No, seriously ... It really is so plain straight forwardly explained by yours truly,
    that even toddlers will be able to go out and spike dad's or mom's car with a t3 and a dump valve . 👌😎
    Well done sir. Great explanation and excellent teaching.
    I enjoyed it immensely. 😎

  • @haidenthomas6002
    @haidenthomas6002 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    This was genuinely interesting and very easy to understand. Thankyou for the education my good sir!

  • @MadGoose1440
    @MadGoose1440 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    8:08 you are actually the best. Can't stop the learnin'! You make my mind into a super sponge that soaks up all this speed knowledge. Great works!

  • @chookvalve
    @chookvalve 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've just watched all 8 Boost shows - so good! Wish they were around when I did my turbocharging in the 80s.

  • @AdityaKPutra
    @AdityaKPutra 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Someone pls give this man a medal, i applaud you sir for making this hard subject easier for us to process 👏👏👏👏👏

  • @jordonjames84
    @jordonjames84 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    When u explained Stututu as bad you blew my freaking mind. This particular video has been my favourite in the series so far

  • @0spork467
    @0spork467 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for making this vid man, really helped me understand how a BOV can be incorporated into a system and its functions.

  • @neilstephen2282
    @neilstephen2282 ปีที่แล้ว

    This guy is so knowledgeable and explains excellently in laymans terms. Well done on another brilliant video

  • @driftingbrandonc.6480
    @driftingbrandonc.6480 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The surge noise is so good. Will never run a BOV.
    Excellent explanation video.

  • @josephf6785
    @josephf6785 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Excellent and concise explanations as always! This series is great!

  • @user-lj7sr6xg2t
    @user-lj7sr6xg2t 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the way this guy explains such complicated stuff is incredible. 6 year olds could understand this. thank you!

  • @KFTunes1
    @KFTunes1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Best engine tech presentations on the internet - and anywhere else for that matter. Great stuff.

  • @peekaboo1575
    @peekaboo1575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    The Group B quattros have the nicest turbo sounds out there, change my mind.

    • @ethanrainsford4251
      @ethanrainsford4251 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      That inline 5 helps too they sound phenominal

    • @thestigv7216
      @thestigv7216 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      LANCIA GANG!

    • @ethanrainsford4251
      @ethanrainsford4251 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@thestigv7216 that was so uncontrolable but was so cool think it made somewhere in the realm of 600hp

    • @peekaboo1575
      @peekaboo1575 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ethanrainsford4251 I thought the S4 made roughly 500 horses. It was fast because the twin-charged engine had no turbo-lag, not necessarily because of extra power.
      From what I know the most powerful Group B prototype was the Sport quattro E2 with somewhere between 550 and 600bhp.
      Then again I could be wrong.

    • @ethanrainsford4251
      @ethanrainsford4251 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@peekaboo1575 in all fairness they was all rediculous in power figures there most likely wasnt any dyno figures just speculations all we can gather though was they was fucking fast for what they was and they mustve took some massive balls to drive as hard as they were driven

  • @Haku-fc9eq
    @Haku-fc9eq 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Wow, this video is amazing. I always wondered how the stututu sound happens, and you explained it so clearly. Keep up the great work. Your videos help me a lot! ;) Thank you!

  • @gabycapoirizarry
    @gabycapoirizarry ปีที่แล้ว

    Love this guy! You think you know how something works but when you see his explanation you always learn somethin you didn't know as thoroughly

  • @alexmarianclinch
    @alexmarianclinch 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love this guy, he knows how to explain, even for the dump people like me. I learn so much from his videos. Thank you!🙏

  • @Braapd
    @Braapd 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    More like:
    “ How turbo flutter / bov works with
    Christoph Waltz “
    Dig it bro haha

  • @mc1996
    @mc1996 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I wasn't expecting a "How to drink water tutorial" in the middle of the video :D

  • @graffsk8er
    @graffsk8er 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    All of this is amazing! I'm new to engines and getting to know how everything works is really fascinating!

  • @hritikbudhan7305
    @hritikbudhan7305 ปีที่แล้ว

    One of the most well made abs explained videos I have seen in a long time. Kudos 💪🏾💪🏾🎩

  • @evensteven5735
    @evensteven5735 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I'm not really a fan of blowoff valve noises or turbo flutter noises. But I do love Turbo whistle and most new cars you just can't hear much whistle at all. Back in the day, my 1st generation Eclipse had turbo whistle even when it was bone stock. Today's cars, you don't really hear any.

    • @xXAsunaxKiritoXx
      @xXAsunaxKiritoXx 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You'll hear the High pressure fuel pump more than anything else lmao

    • @conlanhinkel2022
      @conlanhinkel2022 ปีที่แล้ว

      Man. I definitely hear mine in my s60 rdesign polestar. No intake work done yet either. Fucker can clean a driveway of leaves lol

  • @Akens888
    @Akens888 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    8:30 I agree in with the reasoning here but the turbo is going to be subjected to far more extreme moments when the exhaust is accelerating the turbine from a stand still, turbo flutter will likely have no measurable impact on life span. Real compressor surge, which is when the exhaust is actively driving the turbo definitely has the capacity to damage the turbo.

    • @alientiger21
      @alientiger21 ปีที่แล้ว

      was looking for a comment like this. The damage was far more prevalent in older turbos that had weaker components, but now, pretty much any relatively well built turbo is so robust that the thrust bearings and compressors have stress/strain limits much higher than anything flutter can cause (but not necessarily surge while accelerating).

  • @mncobivictor4300
    @mncobivictor4300 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wonderful explanation, good illustrations. You explained better than most profs, well done

  • @simonyun1883
    @simonyun1883 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love this series of videos, they are very informative!
    I’d love to see a video about standalone ECUs and fuel management.

  • @QuincyStick
    @QuincyStick ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You're telling me I can't make dope stututu sounds without hurting my turbo? Day ruined.

  • @rv6ejguy
    @rv6ejguy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    A counterpoint from the real world. I have been turbocharging engines professionally for over 40 years, including many for road racing. Never used a BOV, never had a compressor or bearing failure from surge. No engines from the golden turbo age of IMSA , Trans Am or F1 (mid '80s to mid '90s) used BOVs to my knowledge including ones used for 24 hour races. A lot of shifts in road racing at high boost...

    • @inaNis_
      @inaNis_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Of course I can’t be sure, but it might be because of the relatively short engine life those cars had compared to a tuner car, which is expected to last longer.

    • @rv6ejguy
      @rv6ejguy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@inaNis_ I owned my 240SX turbo for 19 years, 150,000 miles. No BOV. Never touched the turbo. How long does it take to damage a turbo?

    • @inaNis_
      @inaNis_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rv6ejguy Of course I'm just theorizing here, but it could also have something to do with how much boost pressure you run on a regular basis. If you have a a car which you drive regularly, that runs 40 pounds, it could be beneficial to run a bov or a recirc. It seems like you were perfectly alright with no bov though, so that's great! You got to save money ( :

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      The theory is sound. Boost pressure is key and this is why in the video I'm saying "if boost is high enough" a few times. Very early turbo cars didn't have recirc or bov but they ran like 7-8psi (0.5psi). Today every car has a recirc from the factory, because today we see 1-1.5 bar from the factory on some cars. I don't mean to offend anyone but bov or no bov it's hard to believe you did 150k miles with the same turbo on a car that was non-factory turbocharged and likely built to be driven hard. This has nothing to do with engine building skill but it's simply the expected life span of things. Also, a damaged bearing is a damaged bearing and will often look very similar regardless of damage source, which is why source attribution in the end becomes subjective.

    • @rv6ejguy
      @rv6ejguy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@d4a I appreciate the response. I am saying Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Porsche, GM etc. in IMSA and Trans Am never used BOVs on any of their turbo engines including ones running at the Daytona 24 hour events. Many thousands of shifts at boost levels up to 40 psi in some cases. Ditto in F1 turbo engines running even higher boost.
      My 240SX was tracked and driven hard on the street for 19 years. I drove nothing but cars that I turboed for 30 years on the street and fielded 7 different turbocharged road racing cars winning 5 championships over 13 years. No BOVs and no turbo failures. I have over a million km driving turbo engines and fly a turbocharged aircraft I built now for 18 years. Zero turbocharger failures.
      This is real world, not theory and just another data point as I said.
      BOV or recirc valves are often used on OEM installations as you pointed out where they use MAF and would run like crap otherwise.
      Thank you for your fine videos. Really well done.

  • @spaz163
    @spaz163 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent explanation! Well done

  • @ericsalmazo481
    @ericsalmazo481 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great video. I've learned a lot with this boost school series. Thanks for the amazing work.

  • @scottmcqueen3964
    @scottmcqueen3964 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Shortened life span is worth it :D
    Although how much it actually shortens it is the interesting question, given anecdotally people have been running bovless systems for decades without issues, mainly in lower pressure setups of less than 20psi.

    • @Lucas_Shaolin
      @Lucas_Shaolin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      As turbo Yoda from the skid factory essentially said what you said, that he only uses BOV's on high boost applications for said engine and turbo combo.

  • @jozsefizsak
    @jozsefizsak 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very interesting, but is there any reason to vent any of the air to the atmosphere beyond liking the sound? After an initial interval of enjoyment, I tend to find many car noises annoying so I'd like to know if recirculating all the air is actually the best for performance.

    • @TravisFabel
      @TravisFabel 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So there's actual performance difference and theoretical performance difference.
      First let's go over what we're talking about.
      A recirculation valve is the same thing as a blow off valve except it recirculates back into the air box. This is what a lot of OEM turbo setups do. It's why you don't hear a big pfffft on stock vehicles. Also, If you're using a metered system where you can't just lose the air, it often recirculates back just past the meter so that it stays in the system.
      And a blow off valve is exactly like what he showed there. It just blows the excessive pressure to the atmosphere and often has a trumpet/horn shape that allows it to make that woosh noise louder.
      As to your performance question.
      Theoretically, you've compressed this air and it's hot and you are throwing it back into the air box. Now yes it's true that the air was compressed and now it's decompressing and therefore lowering and temperature but it's also picked up some heat from the whole system being heat soaked and everything and it will be a couple degrees warmer than it started. But that's it.
      The difference is extremely small.
      The only other difference is size. Most recirculation valves are fairly small compared to blow-off valves. If you are doing a large displacement engine, large turbo, etc You need to have a big valve.
      If you have a undersized recirculation valve you will hear the flutter, lose wheel speed, and still have to refill the pipes.
      If you're running a smaller engine, you can blow off the extra air, but if you blow too much of it away you have to refill your entire system and you get a slight delay.
      So sizing is important. Sizing is important for the whole system though so that should be expected...
      Now there's also the psychological part. It definitely sounds and feels faster when you hear it compared to it being silent. For that reason alone most people doing a build will have it make some noise.
      You can adjust how it blows off or where it blows off too so that it's not too loud. It doesn't have to be screaming... Although a lot of companies specialize in making it do that.

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I wanted to reply to the comment and explain but you already did that and beyond. Thank you.

    • @TravisFabel
      @TravisFabel 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@d4a I actually started replying to this while watching your video. And you answered half of what I said later in the video so I probably didn't even need to type it. Lol

  • @greenman7yyy
    @greenman7yyy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent, clear common language explanation. Unprovable!! PERFECT 🙂

  • @yohanan5769
    @yohanan5769 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow. This is by far the best explanation/tutorial I've ever seen in my life, thanks man

  • @hlbcarlito1
    @hlbcarlito1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    great content keep going miss your long hair ;)

    • @d4a
      @d4a  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I don't 🤣

  • @H4zZ4rDGaming1
    @H4zZ4rDGaming1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You already know my turbo S2000 build is getting the good old NO BOV treatment. I'll smile every time I let off the throttle while cowards hate on me in the distance

    • @SteveIrwinsPetStingray
      @SteveIrwinsPetStingray 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Good lmao, turbo flutter is a gift sent from the gods and should not be shunned, in any practical application a BOV is not really necessary if your turbo has ball bearings (journal bearing turbos can experience some increased wear when not running a BOV depending on the application) and sure, the flutter may "slow down" the compressor wheel a bit, but the difference compared to using a BOV is negligible if you're looking for the fastest spool-up after throttle release. So in shorter terms, flutter away! Don't pay mind to those who look down on you for enjoying yourself, they don't know what they're talking about :)

    • @seanrobinson4798
      @seanrobinson4798 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes, finally someone said it! Flutter away my dudes! No bov for 6 years and zero issues!!!

    • @notimportant8120
      @notimportant8120 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, actual compressor surge happens at WOT, not this compressor reversion he is describing in this video

  • @Odqvist89
    @Odqvist89 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love this channel and the quality of your work. Thank you!

  • @stefang1087
    @stefang1087 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I know exactly how those things work, but it makes me relax and catches my attention like I was a little child and you a very good story taller. And this is not just on this video, but on all of them. You are doing an amazing job! 😎👍

  • @MGWilliams
    @MGWilliams 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Great video's I've just been watching a few. A point worthy of note is when you hear compressor surge with closed throttle, the turbine is no longer under load from the exhaust as the flow to the engine has been halted so the turbo is only under load from the trapped air in the charging circuit. Its very unlikely to cause damage to a normal cars turbocharger. If you had a very large turbo like a Garrett T4 is more of a problem. If however you hear surging on acceleration it's going to be a problem, I had that on mid throttle on my subaru as it could not consume the flow rate of the turbo at mid rpm. It lucky can be fixed with mapping. In this scenario the turbo is under opposing forces from turbine to compressor, that will destroy the unit. In almost 20 years of experience I can honestly say regular turbos like T3 TD04 Vf30 etc won't mind flutter, I've never seen one fail solely because of it.

    • @Lofi.z34
      @Lofi.z34 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks. I was wondering why he was exaggerating how "damaging" the tsutututu surge was and my first thought was how miniscule (or non-existent) of an issue it really is

  • @petercraggs2431
    @petercraggs2431 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    These are extremely well presented and explained videos. Great job!

  • @Ardeact
    @Ardeact 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i learned so much in this video, makes me feel more confident on installing my own turbo

  • @fridaycaliforniaa236
    @fridaycaliforniaa236 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I absolutely enjoy each and every one of your deep explanation videos =)

  • @JackMihada
    @JackMihada ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this. It was incredibly well made and easy to understand. Please continue to create more videos explaining and teaching!

  • @Maxine97186
    @Maxine97186 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Finally i found a bov that can be installed in a diverter valve car. I can now be happy without damaging my car. This helps so much!!! Thanks!

  • @ricolaing6630
    @ricolaing6630 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Bro your a legend! For me this is the most informative and easily understood video iv ever seen and im massively grateful for it...Thankyou 👊

  • @RichDupre
    @RichDupre 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a fantastically done and informed video.
    11/10
    Will watch again.

  • @kieranbarker9065
    @kieranbarker9065 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This guys way of explanation is perfect and good graphing and diagrams , love it bro good job!!

  • @steverabbits
    @steverabbits 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Your vids are absolute genius. I learn more from 10 minutes watching you than days of study elsewhere. So, so well explained even a fool can understand it.

  • @hotflashfoto
    @hotflashfoto 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I learned stuff I didn't even know about. Thank you for presenting it in a manner that is so easy to understand.

  • @JanMichaelSullano
    @JanMichaelSullano 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow! That explains everything about how the turbo system and BOV works! Also gives an idea of how you can maximize your turbo system

  • @spiffyduckie
    @spiffyduckie 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    loving this series, please keep it up. I NEED MORE.

  • @roykalil6298
    @roykalil6298 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome video. WOW! How useful is this? I especially appreciated the knowledge gained regarding the contrast between the recirculating and atmospheric venting and the different benefits and drawbacks for both. Also, how to utilize both to maximize performance. I can't thank you enough.

  • @bryanebrahimmargolis4969
    @bryanebrahimmargolis4969 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow I did not even feel the 15min... you have mastered the art of teaching...

  • @darrenparkes9805
    @darrenparkes9805 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for your easy to understand , and effective explanations

  • @henrycervantezzz5566
    @henrycervantezzz5566 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think is legit the best video on TH-cam. Incredible dude. You are a genius. Thank you!

  • @ph4nt0mw0lf7
    @ph4nt0mw0lf7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Im glad i found this video. Ive always loved that sound and since im getting a car soon i thought id look into it. Found out its not good and here we are!
    Couldnt wrap my brain around the things i read so thank you for making it easy to understand

  • @davekendall9749
    @davekendall9749 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I can teach things very simply and well and don't like people who hide behind the fact they don't know, and try to over complicate things. you however are excellent and clear on your explanation to the smallest detail proof of your experience and passion. Thank you.

  • @neomustafi5744
    @neomustafi5744 ปีที่แล้ว

    You and Engineering Explained deserve a nobel price for educating us👍👍👍

  • @fretteocerveau5133
    @fretteocerveau5133 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    WOW Best video explanation off BOV!!! Thank you!

  • @saltchip7093
    @saltchip7093 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was extremely helpful going into the turbo process, thank you so much man!!!

  • @brzk_
    @brzk_ 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    this was honestly the best explanation i have ever seen

  • @DoU3vnLftBr0
    @DoU3vnLftBr0 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Genuinly the best explanation I have seen. Subscribed

  • @scipio5490
    @scipio5490 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's just too much for words, the company that makes that couldn't say it better them self's . Hats off to you man 🎩

  • @halilsama9785
    @halilsama9785 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    thanks from France for explanations !!!

  • @tonywilkey4369
    @tonywilkey4369 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great dialogue and illustrations very easy to understand well done I have that same GFB on my ford 4 litre 6 cylinder Barra turbo replaced the factory one.
    Tony

  • @madoba8717
    @madoba8717 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    5:35 was actually waiting for this. Thank you!

  • @doctorrusty6494
    @doctorrusty6494 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    THE best explanation of the BOV I have ever seen!!!
    I think even my dumb cat gets it now, as he was nodding while watching! Good job mate!!! Well done. And yeah, I love the "stu tu tu tu" graph too :D

  • @ivokiller2000intel
    @ivokiller2000intel 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video as always, loved the water example

  • @Nothing-to-noone
    @Nothing-to-noone ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank You! So much! For this entire series!

  • @frankp8854
    @frankp8854 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Best video for learning about turbo problems...

  • @frankmicho5734
    @frankmicho5734 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is the best explanation i've seen so far 👍

  • @hamza-uj9ef
    @hamza-uj9ef 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Literally the best explanation I have ever seen 👏

  • @ReydioTube
    @ReydioTube 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Finally *actually* understand this!
    Thank you for your service 🖖

  • @MartyKorslund
    @MartyKorslund ปีที่แล้ว

    Extremely well made video my man, I understood everything and you explained it so well!