I like the idea that there are creatures, or beings, that remain mysterious and unexplained. Deconstructing every last detail of the world would rob it of mystery - and by extension, enjoyment.
I don't see how the nameless things could be older than Sauron or Gandalf. Sauron and Gandalf were present with Iluvatar when the world was sang into existence
I know Tolkien never wrote it, but I have a theory. That things were in the Void before the Timeless Halls and Eü, things as old as Erü but not all powerful like Erü, but also outside of his power. And that after Arda was formed, they wormed into the circles of the world, slinking into the deep places under shadow in the earliest days, deeper and deeper until they came to the very roots of the world. They aren't evil, they just ARE the opposite of Erü's creationism; nihilism I guess. Making them older than Sauron and Melkor. It's probably a good thing they're down there and not up on the surface or too close to "the deepest delving of the Dwarves". They're is a letter by Tolkien I believe, about Ungoliant, where he says that maybe Ungoliant is a personification of the Void and it's hunger, so it wouldn't be too out of the question I think. They could also be the manifestation of Melkor's contempt, hatred, jealousy, malice, rebellion, and evil that he put into his chords during the Ainurlindale. The Ainurlindale didn't make Eü and Arda, Erü made those BASED OFF the Ainurlindale they sung. Hence why there is some cruelty in the world. But I'd like a game set in these deep slimy lightless chasms and caverns😊
@traceygamer20 I would agree with this interpretation. Those creatures where created from songs sung by Melkor. Personifications of the worst parts buried deep in the roots of the world. Perhaps parts of them had existed before creation in the void, finally given form by Melkor's song.
Well, “Sauron” didn’t always exist from the beginning, Mairon did. “Gandalf” didn’t exist until a millennium into the 3rd age. Not sure if that’s what was meant but it’s one angle from which it could be correct.
@@traceygamer20 A good take. Also important to remind ourselves that this is all fiction, so we will never know exactly who/what/where/when/why/how everything is, just as J.R.R. Tolkien didn't know it all either, as he first sketched, then fleshed out his creation; only having the span of a normal human life to contemplate and update his work. I sense a lot of metaphor here too, as well as some concepts likely borrowed (consciously or not) from H.P. Lovecraft's recurring themes and characters. Even if Tolkien could have lived three lifespans, I suspect he would continue to develop, refine, then reevaluate and alter a variety of thins, while we, of only one lifespan, would not live to see the end. Those born much later would probably still encounter a vast store of lore that was yet not complete.
Gandalf indicates that the Balrog was almost a "comfort" A being he understood that he needed to chase. What confronted them both made even the Balrog look "ordinary" as a foe to be understood. Was even the Balrog afraid? Gandalf does not say this outright, but who knows??
I would've wished some more (of your) well-educated speculation. To me, it seems Like they are in some substantial ways related to Ungolianth, who also crawled Out of the primordial darkness
I am probably not the only one who thinks of lovecraftian monsters when listening to this. It is the greatest kind of horror - the nameless, ancient beings so alien to us is that we can only imagine the archaic horror.
I always thought of their origin as Melkors disruption and curruption as Arda was formed. When he brought his own influence in while the other Valar worked together. And twisted things in the foundation of the world itself.
How much evil can one really get up to down there? Clearly they’re not evil enough to have ever came up to the surface to cause shit. There I’ll be down there to survive and happy they don’t have to fucking talk to Wizard’s and shit
Tolkiens world is actually so thinly grazed trough on the big screen, and its such a shame. i mean i guess we have rings of power now wich just does not do tolkien justice imo. this video however..
11:13 Might you have misspoken? Gandalf pursued the Balrog deep into the roots of Earth where they might have encountered the Nameless Things but they duelled all the way up to the peaks where he defeatd & threw Balrog down. Gandalf is fully spent & after that, passes out, awaiting his judgment, really unable to do anything mor, let alone journey again through the deepest places?
Looks like Eru Illuvatar is indeed the monster that Melkur always claimed He was and that Eru wanted evil and terror and suffering for Arda . Melkur was right all along .
I was under the impression that these creature we song into being by Melkor when his part of the song was sung in counter point to the love and harmony sung by the rest of the Valar. He wove greed, jealousy and hatred into the world.
@@christophermetzger8183 Eru created Melkor in his own image and set him loose on that world. I don't give the creator and enabler of monsters a pass . Melkor was right to hate Eru .
@vasp99 Melkor had free will. He was made in the image of his father, Eru Illuvatar, but his actions are his own. Perhaps Eru could have spent more time shaping Melkor maybe Melkor would not turn out to be such a petty child. I don't know, but Melkor decide early on to try and trash the song of creation and the world of Arada. I never ready silmarillion so I don't know Melkor motivation.
@@christophermetzger8183 there's no such thing as free will in Tolkien's version of the Old Testament . Eru's intensely sadistic treatment of humanity is straight out of Sodom and Gamorrah . Everything other than the fall of Numenor is decorative . Tolkien may never have admitted to hating god but everything he wrote depicts intentional suffering inflicted by a creator on his creations . The Valar are pathetic milksops who just can't rescue middle earth because that's the way the creator created his creation . Tolkien saw the horrors of life and tried to stamp an acceptable reason for those horrors . Tolkien utterly failed to do so .
@@christophermetzger8183 Melkor wanted "to create things of his own" without asking for help from Eru, and accidentally caused chaos into the song. He then tried to reorder the Valar's creations, and his first evil deed appears to be kidnapping sleeping elves and men for use in the First War. To be fair, Eru/Yhwh does all the stuff in the Bible that Melkor/Satan does in the Legendarium: "If Peter Griffin gets to be a jerk all the time why not Donald Trump?"
So what or who were the hordes of orcs that took over Moria eating? There weren't settlements nearby to raid, they certainly aren't farmers and there is no mention of Mordor's logistics corps arranging wagon convoys to such far off outposts
There are many cave-dwelling cultures in recorded history: the Puebloans, the Dine peoples, the cloud dwellers of Colombia, the cave dwellers of Turkiye (sic), and Tibetic ascetics in the Greater Himalayas. These cultures farmed crops and animals in the caves and just outside them, and Moria had a cleft in the roof like a canyon. These peoples also gathered, and Moria seems to be as big as the well-known gigantic caves with their own ecosystems and wind currents. Also, the Wood-men and the Beornings lived next to Moria, as did the Eagles (and presumably rooks, wrens, and thrushes), and the Wargs would have had plenty of wolf food like deer and such.
Tolkien was one of the best storytellers of all time, and he used all kinds of techniques to keep the reader’s attention. By creating an enigma he triggered the reader’s own imagination to figure out what this could be. Something so scary that you can’t even talk about and that doesn’t have a name sounds really frightening. People tend to be afraid of the unknown. Compare it to the clickbait you will find on internet today. An other enigma is Tom Bobadill. Who or what is he. He is not evil and is a side note in the story of the rings and the simarillion. Again it triggers the reader’s imagination4. Maybe that is the intention of these enigmas in the first place. Compare it to a pretty girl in a tiny bikini. She looks more sexy in that bikini that hardly covers anything than she would if she was butt naked. Your imagination fills out the blanks and makes it more interesting. A more family friendly alternative is Donald Duck and his friends. Normally they walk around without pants and looks dressed, but when they go to the beach they put on old style bathing suits and looks undressed. Again your brain is playing tricks on you. Tolkien had a whole arsenal of tricks he used in his storytelling.😅😅😅
Maybe they are older in the sense that they have been longer on Arda. The Ainur sung Arda into creation, including the nameless things (or as a byproduct of the discord), and descended into Arda after they were already created. So they are older in that sense.
Ahem. Smaug came from the Forodwaith (North Wastes in Sindaran I believe). Plenty of Dragons live up there actually. Dragons sacked a few Dwarf strongholds and colonies in the Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains) before Smaug came down. They're up there because Melkor bred the race of Dragons in the First Age, starting with the wingless Glaorun, then the winged Dragons during the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age. When Melkor was beaten, his forces scattered to far away places or dark places they could hide. The Dragons went Forod. Smaug is also not the last Dragon. He's the last GREAT Dragon. There are still dragons living up there, much weaker then Smaug or Ancalagon the Black (greatest winged Dragon ever), but still up there. They most likely die off tho before the 5th Age, maybe early 4th Age
@@traceygamer20 Since dragons are mentioned in medieval times and were still believed in in the late 19th century in southern Sweden, with mysticism becoming popular worldwide, it seems they survived to that time... and "The Father Christmas Letters" talk mention dragons working with goblins. Smaug is the last great dragon we know of, and it is implied that there are plenty of them: the Dwarves lost the war with them after all I believe.
Just wait Amazon will give it a name and make it some fat gross Yass Queen of diverse colors of a rainbow. It'll be god awful and it'll make you thankful there are channels like this and geeks&gamers heels vs Babyface nerdrotic for destroying brain cells watching the slop to let us know it's worse then we thought it ever could be.
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I like the idea that there are creatures, or beings, that remain mysterious and unexplained. Deconstructing every last detail of the world would rob it of mystery - and by extension, enjoyment.
In my opinion these could be the remnants of Melcor's discord that he did during the creating of Arda.
This makes the most sense. Otherwise where else did they come from. Unless Eru made them first. 🤔
Yea thats othe only logical explination, nothing can be older then that.
I don't see how the nameless things could be older than Sauron or Gandalf. Sauron and Gandalf were present with Iluvatar when the world was sang into existence
I know Tolkien never wrote it, but I have a theory. That things were in the Void before the Timeless Halls and Eü, things as old as Erü but not all powerful like Erü, but also outside of his power. And that after Arda was formed, they wormed into the circles of the world, slinking into the deep places under shadow in the earliest days, deeper and deeper until they came to the very roots of the world. They aren't evil, they just ARE the opposite of Erü's creationism; nihilism I guess. Making them older than Sauron and Melkor. It's probably a good thing they're down there and not up on the surface or too close to "the deepest delving of the Dwarves". They're is a letter by Tolkien I believe, about Ungoliant, where he says that maybe Ungoliant is a personification of the Void and it's hunger, so it wouldn't be too out of the question I think. They could also be the manifestation of Melkor's contempt, hatred, jealousy, malice, rebellion, and evil that he put into his chords during the Ainurlindale. The Ainurlindale didn't make Eü and Arda, Erü made those BASED OFF the Ainurlindale they sung. Hence why there is some cruelty in the world. But I'd like a game set in these deep slimy lightless chasms and caverns😊
@traceygamer20 I would agree with this interpretation. Those creatures where created from songs sung by Melkor. Personifications of the worst parts buried deep in the roots of the world. Perhaps parts of them had existed before creation in the void, finally given form by Melkor's song.
Well, “Sauron” didn’t always exist from the beginning, Mairon did. “Gandalf” didn’t exist until a millennium into the 3rd age. Not sure if that’s what was meant but it’s one angle from which it could be correct.
@@traceygamer20 A good take. Also important to remind ourselves that this is all fiction, so we will never know exactly who/what/where/when/why/how everything is, just as J.R.R. Tolkien didn't know it all either, as he first sketched, then fleshed out his creation; only having the span of a normal human life to contemplate and update his work. I sense a lot of metaphor here too, as well as some concepts likely borrowed (consciously or not) from H.P. Lovecraft's recurring themes and characters. Even if Tolkien could have lived three lifespans, I suspect he would continue to develop, refine, then reevaluate and alter a variety of thins, while we, of only one lifespan, would not live to see the end. Those born much later would probably still encounter a vast store of lore that was yet not complete.
@@landofalwayswinter666 Gandalf was originally known as Olorin and was there as long as Mairon aka Sauron
Dam! The artwork you're using is amazing!
Thank you!
Almost all the pictures are AI. Nothing is accurate. They have 6 fingers etc.
They sound almost lovecraften🤔
That's how they're interpreted in Lord of the Rings Online. There are weird alien creatures way down at the bottom of the endless stair in moria
It is a concept that predates both.
Gandalf indicates that the Balrog was almost a "comfort" A being he understood that he needed to chase. What confronted them both made even the Balrog look "ordinary" as a foe to be understood. Was even the Balrog afraid? Gandalf does not say this outright, but who knows??
I would've wished some more (of your) well-educated speculation. To me, it seems Like they are in some substantial ways related to Ungolianth, who also crawled Out of the primordial darkness
Beautiful graphics for this strange story 👍❤
I am probably not the only one who thinks of lovecraftian monsters when listening to this. It is the greatest kind of horror - the nameless, ancient beings so alien to us is that we can only imagine the archaic horror.
I said the same thing myself about a day or two ago, there something truly creepy about them, Not sure if JRT was awere of Lovecraft work🤔
Take a shot each time he says gnaw.
The giant spider came from the void not from the Creator. So perhaps the nameless things also came from the void 🤔
In Norse mythology the dragon Nidhogg gnaws at the roots of the World Tree Yggdrassil .
I think they formed from Melkors part in the original song that created Arda
Excellent video! As Love craft said “ indescribable “ ….
I’ve been through the desert on a thing with no name…
Oooo do tell
@@traceygamer20 the ocean is a desert with its life undergrouns
I always thought of their origin as Melkors disruption and curruption as Arda was formed. When he brought his own influence in while the other Valar worked together. And twisted things in the foundation of the world itself.
These videos are far better than rings of power
Just a little glimpse of Lovecraft in Tolkien's legendarium
So this is where WoW got it from ? The void lords being one with azeroth and slowly destroying the world fits perfectly to what is said in this video
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
What do you mean?
Rock and stone! We're rich!
For Karl!
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die - hp lovecraft
How much evil can one really get up to down there? Clearly they’re not evil enough to have ever came up to the surface to cause shit. There I’ll be down there to survive and happy they don’t have to fucking talk to Wizard’s and shit
Tolkiens world is actually so thinly grazed trough on the big screen, and its such a shame. i mean i guess we have rings of power now wich just does not do tolkien justice imo. this video however..
2:10 which race in Middle Earth has six fingers on their hands? lol
11:13 Might you have misspoken? Gandalf pursued the Balrog deep into the roots of Earth where they might have encountered the Nameless Things but they duelled all the way up to the peaks where he defeatd & threw Balrog down. Gandalf is fully spent & after that, passes out, awaiting his judgment, really unable to do anything mor, let alone journey again through the deepest places?
Evil by their mere presence or by their deeds?
My head canon is that they are Fraggles.
Looks like Eru Illuvatar is indeed the monster that Melkur always claimed He was and that Eru wanted evil and terror and suffering for Arda . Melkur was right all along .
I was under the impression that these creature we song into being by Melkor when his part of the song was sung in counter point to the love and harmony sung by the rest of the Valar. He wove greed, jealousy and hatred into the world.
@@christophermetzger8183 Eru created Melkor in his own image and set him loose on that world. I don't give the creator and enabler of monsters a pass . Melkor was right to hate Eru .
@vasp99 Melkor had free will. He was made in the image of his father, Eru Illuvatar, but his actions are his own. Perhaps Eru could have spent more time shaping Melkor maybe Melkor would not turn out to be such a petty child. I don't know, but Melkor decide early on to try and trash the song of creation and the world of Arada. I never ready silmarillion so I don't know Melkor motivation.
@@christophermetzger8183 there's no such thing as free will in Tolkien's version of the Old Testament . Eru's intensely sadistic treatment of humanity is straight out of Sodom and Gamorrah . Everything other than the fall of Numenor is decorative . Tolkien may never have admitted to hating god but everything he wrote depicts intentional suffering inflicted by a creator on his creations . The Valar are pathetic milksops who just can't rescue middle earth because that's the way the creator created his creation . Tolkien saw the horrors of life and tried to stamp an acceptable reason for those horrors . Tolkien utterly failed to do so .
@@christophermetzger8183 Melkor wanted "to create things of his own" without asking for help from Eru, and accidentally caused chaos into the song. He then tried to reorder the Valar's creations, and his first evil deed appears to be kidnapping sleeping elves and men for use in the First War. To be fair, Eru/Yhwh does all the stuff in the Bible that Melkor/Satan does in the Legendarium: "If Peter Griffin gets to be a jerk all the time why not Donald Trump?"
So what or who were the hordes of orcs that took over Moria eating? There weren't settlements nearby to raid, they certainly aren't farmers and there is no mention of Mordor's logistics corps arranging wagon convoys to such far off outposts
There are many cave-dwelling cultures in recorded history: the Puebloans, the Dine peoples, the cloud dwellers of Colombia, the cave dwellers of Turkiye (sic), and Tibetic ascetics in the Greater Himalayas. These cultures farmed crops and animals in the caves and just outside them, and Moria had a cleft in the roof like a canyon. These peoples also gathered, and Moria seems to be as big as the well-known gigantic caves with their own ecosystems and wind currents. Also, the Wood-men and the Beornings lived next to Moria, as did the Eagles (and presumably rooks, wrens, and thrushes), and the Wargs would have had plenty of wolf food like deer and such.
Dol Goldur isn't too far off from Moria. Dol Goldur was the second biggest stronghold of Sauron. Perhaps food was coming from there
@@andrewvincent7299 It would make more sense for Dol Goldur to help Nurn supply Mordor.
The picture of the hand holding mithril in thr first couple minutes had 5 fingers
Tolkien was one of the best storytellers of all time, and he used all kinds of techniques to keep the reader’s attention. By creating an enigma he triggered the reader’s own imagination to figure out what this could be. Something so scary that you can’t even talk about and that doesn’t have a name sounds really frightening. People tend to be afraid of the unknown. Compare it to the clickbait you will find on internet today. An other enigma is Tom Bobadill. Who or what is he. He is not evil and is a side note in the story of the rings and the simarillion.
Again it triggers the reader’s imagination4. Maybe that is the intention of these enigmas in the first place. Compare it to a pretty girl in a tiny bikini. She looks more sexy in that bikini that hardly covers anything than she would if she was butt naked. Your imagination fills out the blanks and makes it more interesting. A more family friendly alternative is Donald Duck and his friends. Normally they walk around without pants and looks dressed, but when they go to the beach they put on old style bathing suits and looks undressed. Again your brain is playing tricks on you. Tolkien had a whole arsenal of tricks he used in his storytelling.😅😅😅
I’m not sure what the plan for the unknown things were within middle earth. I’m curious if they were planned to be the next big villain.
almost sounds like tomkien made an homage to HP Lovecraft😎
These nameless things , are they necessarily evil ?
they are implied to be but they aren't necessarily
New images are good
Nameless children of Ilúvatar
How can they be older than the Valar if the Valar are the ones who sang the world into creation?
Maybe they are older in the sense that they have been longer on Arda. The Ainur sung Arda into creation, including the nameless things (or as a byproduct of the discord), and descended into Arda after they were already created. So they are older in that sense.
So basically Cuthulu.
Lions and Tigers and Bears
So where's smaug come from?
Dragons came from Sauron's master, Morgoth/Melkor.
Ahem. Smaug came from the Forodwaith (North Wastes in Sindaran I believe). Plenty of Dragons live up there actually. Dragons sacked a few Dwarf strongholds and colonies in the Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains) before Smaug came down. They're up there because Melkor bred the race of Dragons in the First Age, starting with the wingless Glaorun, then the winged Dragons during the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age. When Melkor was beaten, his forces scattered to far away places or dark places they could hide. The Dragons went Forod. Smaug is also not the last Dragon. He's the last GREAT Dragon. There are still dragons living up there, much weaker then Smaug or Ancalagon the Black (greatest winged Dragon ever), but still up there. They most likely die off tho before the 5th Age, maybe early 4th Age
@@traceygamer20 Since dragons are mentioned in medieval times and were still believed in in the late 19th century in southern Sweden, with mysticism becoming popular worldwide, it seems they survived to that time... and "The Father Christmas Letters" talk mention dragons working with goblins. Smaug is the last great dragon we know of, and it is implied that there are plenty of them: the Dwarves lost the war with them after all I believe.
Just wait Amazon will give it a name and make it some fat gross Yass Queen of diverse colors of a rainbow. It'll be god awful and it'll make you thankful there are channels like this and geeks&gamers heels vs Babyface nerdrotic for destroying brain cells watching the slop to let us know it's worse then we thought it ever could be.
gnaw