I love how Tolkein merely hinted at what lies deep within the abyss of Middle Earth and not going into detail about these ancient horrors. Simply stated in passing, nothing more.
Oh, Tolkien did write about them. But he burnt all the manuscripts. Unfortunately, a young scholar of him had meticulously copied them all on microfilm, wanting to publish them. He died in mysterious circumstances and, by a random stroke of luck, the microfilms were discovered in the men's restrooms by prof. Randolph Carter, who was at the time, giving a lecture on ancient Polynesian myths at the University of Oxford. Realizing the implications of what he found, he immediately took the microfilms to Arkham. The films are held there, under lock and key, in the section of Forbidden Tomes and only accessible to a handful of individuals around the globe. I have been able to investigate them, yet I do not want to burden humanity with such knowledge of a nature that's blasphemous against the very existence of life and the universe. May the scholar's death serve as a stark warning against such perilous pursuits. Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Gandalf indicates that the Balrog was almost a "comfort" A being he understood that he needed to chase. What confronted them both made even the Balrog look "ordinary" as a foe to be understood. Was even the Balrog afraid? Gandalf does not say this outright, but who knows??
As a being of Fear and Terror, I don't imagine afraid is in its vocabulary, iykwim [much like the "menu" that the meat's back on for, is for the Orc's! >XD]. Really had it been afraid it didn't have to chase and hunt them down; had it tried to leave it would be welcomed by the group! Though after the first week of fighting Gandalf, it may have piqued some concern! :D
The Balrogs fought one of these, I think "Ungoliath" has one of those nameless things, shes very old and ancient like a primordial darknes and no one knew her origin, and yet she got defeated by the balrogs, morgoth feared her but the balrogs didnt.. they came to her with their swords and flames and she has forced to flee away
I always liked the implication that besides the evil that came from gods and spirits that formed the world in bad intensions, the nature of existence itself brings entitys to life that are even worse.
Ungoliath absolutely feels like one of these nameless things, "weaving the webs of starless void at the deep places of the earth" Morgoth had to run away from her as she turned her gaze upon him, and the only thing that finally destroyed her was her own hunger consuming herself.
I don't see how the nameless things could be older than Sauron or Gandalf. Sauron and Gandalf were present with Iluvatar when the world was sang into existence
I know Tolkien never wrote it, but I have a theory. That things were in the Void before the Timeless Halls and Eü, things as old as Erü but not all powerful like Erü, but also outside of his power. And that after Arda was formed, they wormed into the circles of the world, slinking into the deep places under shadow in the earliest days, deeper and deeper until they came to the very roots of the world. They aren't evil, they just ARE the opposite of Erü's creationism; nihilism I guess. Making them older than Sauron and Melkor. It's probably a good thing they're down there and not up on the surface or too close to "the deepest delving of the Dwarves". They're is a letter by Tolkien I believe, about Ungoliant, where he says that maybe Ungoliant is a personification of the Void and it's hunger, so it wouldn't be too out of the question I think. They could also be the manifestation of Melkor's contempt, hatred, jealousy, malice, rebellion, and evil that he put into his chords during the Ainurlindale. The Ainurlindale didn't make Eü and Arda, Erü made those BASED OFF the Ainurlindale they sung. Hence why there is some cruelty in the world. But I'd like a game set in these deep slimy lightless chasms and caverns😊
@traceygamer20 I would agree with this interpretation. Those creatures where created from songs sung by Melkor. Personifications of the worst parts buried deep in the roots of the world. Perhaps parts of them had existed before creation in the void, finally given form by Melkor's song.
Well, “Sauron” didn’t always exist from the beginning, Mairon did. “Gandalf” didn’t exist until a millennium into the 3rd age. Not sure if that’s what was meant but it’s one angle from which it could be correct.
@@traceygamer20 A good take. Also important to remind ourselves that this is all fiction, so we will never know exactly who/what/where/when/why/how everything is, just as J.R.R. Tolkien didn't know it all either, as he first sketched, then fleshed out his creation; only having the span of a normal human life to contemplate and update his work. I sense a lot of metaphor here too, as well as some concepts likely borrowed (consciously or not) from H.P. Lovecraft's recurring themes and characters. Even if Tolkien could have lived three lifespans, I suspect he would continue to develop, refine, then reevaluate and alter a variety of thins, while we, of only one lifespan, would not live to see the end. Those born much later would probably still encounter a vast store of lore that was yet not complete.
I always thought of their origin as Melkors disruption and curruption as Arda was formed. When he brought his own influence in while the other Valar worked together. And twisted things in the foundation of the world itself.
11:13 Might you have misspoken? Gandalf pursued the Balrog deep into the roots of Earth where they might have encountered the Nameless Things but they duelled all the way up to the peaks where he defeatd & threw Balrog down. Gandalf is fully spent & after that, passes out, awaiting his judgment, really unable to do anything mor, let alone journey again through the deepest places?
A few minutes ago i wrote the same, it also came in my mind right away when and how they were discribed at the beginning off the Video! Greetings from Austria 🙂
I am probably not the only one who thinks of lovecraftian monsters when listening to this. It is the greatest kind of horror - the nameless, ancient beings so alien to us is that we can only imagine the archaic horror.
I like the idea that there are creatures, or beings, that remain mysterious and unexplained. Deconstructing every last detail of the world would rob it of mystery - and by extension, enjoyment.
So true. I love lovecraftian horror and i cant help but think this was tolkien's nod to him. Im so fascinated with the nameless things and a part of me would love to see SOMETHING that gives us an idea of what they are but youre right. In some cases, the questions are better than answers especially when it comes to ancient agents of darkness and destruction
@@rjzavala87 Amen to that! I've been watching a few video essays on the Nameless Things. It's a very compelling concept! One of them cited one of Tolkien's letters - in which he stated that not everything in the world needed explaining. Ungoliant, Shelob, the Watcher, the Nameless Things - I LOVE the idea that there were dark powers that even Morgoth and Sauron didn't touch!
@@solitarysurreal3652 ''I LOVE the idea that there were dark powers that even Morgoth and Sauron didn't touch!'' I couldn't have stated that sentence any better. If Sauron went to battle these things it would be evil versus an even greater evil that outmatches the madness and pure evil that Sauron is capable of and makes his exploits insignificant
I LOVE your videos, and this is a really cool topic. This video felt very repetitive, though. There was a lot of "older than ___", "more evil than ___: "gnawing at the roots of the earth. " I wouldn't have minded a shorter video or this being included in a "the evils of the world" video.
I would've wished some more (of your) well-educated speculation. To me, it seems Like they are in some substantial ways related to Ungolianth, who also crawled Out of the primordial darkness
I think you might be wrong, Gandalf 's metaphysical journey wasn't in the bowels of the earth. He fell with the Balrog into the Abyss, chased it to the peak, and then fought it, falling with it as they destroyed the mountain. Then his spirit travelled to Valinor and was sent by the Valar as Gandalf the white.
Meh, a lot of overthinking here. Most of the quotations are, in the best traditions of storytelling, teeing-up the Balrog for his grand entrance. All this talk of other, malevolent forces ignores that Moria was repopulated under Durin VII and held until dwarves ended. Sure, the Nameless things, they're alluded to entities, but their influence on the narrative is being overstated.
“I have looked upon all that the universe has to hold of horror, and even the skies of spring and the flowers of summer must ever afterward be poison to me.”
I have my own theory. Eru awoke and was alone. He then sang the Ainur into being. To do that, he first hummed a prefect note to set that pitch, then cleared his throat and sang the Ainur. That first note and throat clear, unintentionally, became Tom and the Nameless Things. Eru needed a place to put them, since they were not the angelic being he planned. So, he had the Ainur sing the Ainulindalë to create a world, without telling them the reason it was needed. This is why the Nameless Things can be older the Sauron and how he knows them not. It also gives a reason for Bombadil saying he is oldest. I believe Tom’s purpose was to keep reign of the Nameless Things. This too says to why he didn’t participate in any of the wars throughout the ages and set his own boundaries. Those wars were beneath him.
You’re a nerd obsessing over a made up world. Of course you’re right, because it’s fantasy and there is no wrong with the interpretation of fantastical tales
@@mishaDorjan and you’re a troglodyte, making fun of people that have a passion for things more profound and meaningful than your fantasy sports leagues, your Andrew Tate videos and your Diddy parties.
@@mishaDorjan and you’re a Troglodyte that likes to make fun of people who have a thoughtful passion and respect for more profound learning experiences that have nothing to do with your fantasy sports leagues, your Andrew Tate fandom, and your Diddy parties…
Maybe they are older in the sense that they have been longer on Arda. The Ainur sung Arda into creation, including the nameless things (or as a byproduct of the discord), and descended into Arda after they were already created. So they are older in that sense.
I believe the Nameless Things were blinked into existence through Morgoth's interference with Illuvatar's theme, during the initial forming of Middle-Earth.
Very nice, gets me chills those unknown horrors, spirits and powers. Now you can clearly understand were Games Workshop did got their inspiration for the Chaos gods and legions. Its purely chaos those nameless things!
The Namelss Things are not friends or Foe, they are just foreign being that exist out of the plots and struggles of the protagonits... which makes them frightening
Makes perfect sense that regardless on how mighty the Balrog were, there is no way one alone could make to get rid of ALL the Dwarves population in Moria, if by chance he wasn´t joined or aided by something else which in combination made so much confusing and deadly to properly identify it as a simple Balrog itself. After all though it has been a lot of time since the very last time, either the Elves, Dwarves or Men met a Balrog, they kinda ought to be well acknowledged somehow on the Ancient Stories of First Age, and as the First Original and Greater Dark Lord before Sauron, Morgoth rellyied heavily on their help too then. The Balrog seems to have known them more than anyone, so sad he couldn´t tell more about it.
It makes perfect sense to connect those foreboding foreshadows of an unknown ancient horror and larger danger than the Orcs on Moria, however as the Balrog/Durin´s Bane hadn´t been found what it was before meeting it, and its true nature was also unknown, that foreboding sense of ancient doom could be implying it at the same.
Personally i think the nameless things are beings from outside eru's creation, that generally only stray into its fringes and subsist by consuming scant amounts of the concept of the world. Staying beings more of concept and allegory than flesh and blood so long as they do not venture into the world too far. I think this because gandalf never calls them evil, just dark. The connection between light and dark good and evil is strong in lotr but gandalf doesn't tend to shy from calling evil at face value. So i think gandalfs obvious discomfort of them must stem from a different reason.
Tolkien was one of the best storytellers of all time, and he used all kinds of techniques to keep the reader’s attention. By creating an enigma he triggered the reader’s own imagination to figure out what this could be. Something so scary that you can’t even talk about and that doesn’t have a name sounds really frightening. People tend to be afraid of the unknown. Compare it to the clickbait you will find on internet today. An other enigma is Tom Bobadill. Who or what is he. He is not evil and is a side note in the story of the rings and the simarillion. Again it triggers the reader’s imagination4. Maybe that is the intention of these enigmas in the first place. Compare it to a pretty girl in a tiny bikini. She looks more sexy in that bikini that hardly covers anything than she would if she was butt naked. Your imagination fills out the blanks and makes it more interesting. A more family friendly alternative is Donald Duck and his friends. Normally they walk around without pants and looks dressed, but when they go to the beach they put on old style bathing suits and looks undressed. Again your brain is playing tricks on you. Tolkien had a whole arsenal of tricks he used in his storytelling.😅😅😅
OMG there is the key-word about hinting on the Nameless Things indeed being kinda sensed by the Dwarves before and as they wake up Durin´s Bane - which they didn´t knew was a Balrog untill very late as the Fellowship met him - the word is GNAWED as Gandalf tells about them later on!!
Tolkiens world is actually so thinly grazed trough on the big screen, and its such a shame. i mean i guess we have rings of power now wich just does not do tolkien justice imo. this video however..
The existence of the Nameless Things hints that regardless of the Dwarves regaining Moria´s domain some time later after the end of The Lord of the Rings story, on the Fourth Age, they might not be ever lasting after all, and an impending DOOM will came from the deeppest regions of their domain as before and perhaps even more deadly than with the Balrog before.
How much evil can one really get up to down there? Clearly they’re not evil enough to have ever came up to the surface to cause shit. There I’ll be down there to survive and happy they don’t have to fucking talk to Wizard’s and shit
Exactly right?? They just dwelve in the depths of the earth not really doing anything evil, serial killers, rapists, criminals in general do a lot more evil than these things that dont really seem to do anything…🤷🏻🤷🏻they lamee
How did the dwarves dig dangerously close to the nameless things or feel their presence or disturb them? Gandalf was clear that the dwarves never came near them.
You contradicted Gandalf's words, and attributed a famous Gandalf quote to Gimli. I'm not only disliking this video but I'm not watching anymore of your content because I don't trust your accuracy.
I like Tolkien´s idea not to explain everything. It makes totally sense. For me the nameless things represent and unite the worst qualities of the living beings on the surface. For example the greed of the dwarfs, bellicosity or the striving for power which cumulates in a manifestation of these creatures. They aren´t evil per se, they are fed by the Zeitgeist, so they became big and strong, sometimes they sleep. They are like feelings lay down in the unconscious. Or they are like Shiva, who comes from time to time and cleaned everything out. For me it is time, and I am around.
Theres three kinds of knowledge; the known, the unknown and the unknowable. Gandalf the known, the balrog the unknown and the nameless things are the unknowable
It follows a very similar sense of mystery along Lovecraftian lore. Delving too deep into places not meant to be found. Like summarizing Lovecraft's tale, that Knowledge is like a vast ocean, and we are not meant to venture far.
There is nothing like a good stretch followed by a long reach to grasp at thin air. The world has the works of Lovecraft to enjoy there is no need to look for him in the works of Tolkien.
Everything that exists in the world of Tolkien supposedly came forth from Eru Ilúvatar or Melkor. So from where such nameless evil would come from? Could they be “seepage” from the void? This reminds me a lot of Lovecraft.
However as I know it´s Gandalf personality he just couldn´t have left aside this new knowledge about a foreboding ancient powerfull evil source on the future, and leave Middle Earth just as that, so he kinda have made up something on secret, being therefore his very last meeting with Tom Bombadill and the unknown issues they disscused on. Then maybe... that´s how Gandalf realizes the true nature of Tom himself, and sets up to have a proper counsel or plan against these lurking evils.
Who's to say that, arda is not just earth 30.0 and, that Eru has reset creation quite a few times... I mean, the all-powerful seems pretty chill with a bunch of his creations going totally rouge and going ape$sh1t all over the world, turning arda into a legit battle royale for genocidal supremacy. He doesn't lift a single finger about it, on the contrary, this all seems to part of his blueprint. If ainur can turn into things like balrogs, I think its a safe bet that, what would pass as the earlier versions of ainur, might've come up with similarly monstrous incarnations and, such impossibly ancient entities may be the last remnants of ages, wars and horrors that would put virgin Melkor and the war of wrath to shame...
Eru lifting a finger is a subtle thing easily missed, but it happens. The Valar learned that opposing the enemy in power creates destruction and causes fear among the Children of Iluvatar. Eru always knew this. His interventions include the 'coincidental' gathering at Rivendell of the Fellowship and advisors, the 'luck' frequently encountered, the strength and humility of hobbits, the mercy of Bilbo, the obsession of Gollum. Eru created the template for Reality and all its components then allowed living things to choose their actions, from Melkor to Sam Gamgee, but nothing any of them did could break the template. One way to see LotR is as a battle between two unseen forces - Eru and Sauron. Both remain outside the story but their influence is felt everywhere.
So what or who were the hordes of orcs that took over Moria eating? There weren't settlements nearby to raid, they certainly aren't farmers and there is no mention of Mordor's logistics corps arranging wagon convoys to such far off outposts
There are many cave-dwelling cultures in recorded history: the Puebloans, the Dine peoples, the cloud dwellers of Colombia, the cave dwellers of Turkiye (sic), and Tibetic ascetics in the Greater Himalayas. These cultures farmed crops and animals in the caves and just outside them, and Moria had a cleft in the roof like a canyon. These peoples also gathered, and Moria seems to be as big as the well-known gigantic caves with their own ecosystems and wind currents. Also, the Wood-men and the Beornings lived next to Moria, as did the Eagles (and presumably rooks, wrens, and thrushes), and the Wargs would have had plenty of wolf food like deer and such.
@@rikhuravidansker You're indeed correct about those cultures; but can you imagine Orc's farming and keeping cattle... maybe the Rings of Power Orc's; or maybe Moria has its own maggoty bread baker*! :D ... and another answer could/would be; the weakest or most annoying in the group * inside the Adar supermarket; complete with a butcher who sells flamed, cured dwarf meat!? :D
@@TheEyez187 Orcs are described as "ugly and degraded versions of (to Europeans), least lovely Mongol-types," meaning they are the ancestors of Turkic peoples (who are physically different from Mongols and whites and thus ugly to both), with "ugly and degraded" meaning orcs should look like Cossacks and stereotypical fat Turks. Therefore, orcs would eat a steppe people diet.
Looks like Eru Illuvatar is indeed the monster that Melkur always claimed He was and that Eru wanted evil and terror and suffering for Arda . Melkur was right all along .
I was under the impression that these creature we song into being by Melkor when his part of the song was sung in counter point to the love and harmony sung by the rest of the Valar. He wove greed, jealousy and hatred into the world.
@@christophermetzger8183 Eru created Melkor in his own image and set him loose on that world. I don't give the creator and enabler of monsters a pass . Melkor was right to hate Eru .
@vasp99 Melkor had free will. He was made in the image of his father, Eru Illuvatar, but his actions are his own. Perhaps Eru could have spent more time shaping Melkor maybe Melkor would not turn out to be such a petty child. I don't know, but Melkor decide early on to try and trash the song of creation and the world of Arada. I never ready silmarillion so I don't know Melkor motivation.
@@christophermetzger8183 there's no such thing as free will in Tolkien's version of the Old Testament . Eru's intensely sadistic treatment of humanity is straight out of Sodom and Gamorrah . Everything other than the fall of Numenor is decorative . Tolkien may never have admitted to hating god but everything he wrote depicts intentional suffering inflicted by a creator on his creations . The Valar are pathetic milksops who just can't rescue middle earth because that's the way the creator created his creation . Tolkien saw the horrors of life and tried to stamp an acceptable reason for those horrors . Tolkien utterly failed to do so .
@@christophermetzger8183 Melkor wanted "to create things of his own" without asking for help from Eru, and accidentally caused chaos into the song. He then tried to reorder the Valar's creations, and his first evil deed appears to be kidnapping sleeping elves and men for use in the First War. To be fair, Eru/Yhwh does all the stuff in the Bible that Melkor/Satan does in the Legendarium: "If Peter Griffin gets to be a jerk all the time why not Donald Trump?"
In fact he, apart from magic, can be considered similar to Daenerys Targaryen. She had also a dispotic agenda, considering herself the only one that can rule both westeros and essos and her "truth" was the only legit truth. Daenerys devoted herself in "freeing" the world Sauron devoted himself to healing the middle earth
Though the mention of Nameless Things is so awesome and scariest over the top it also seems to be BUG or GLITCH and CRACK on the reality of the same fabric of creation and foundations on Tolkien´s world because this implies something BEYOND either by Illuvatar´s planning and neither Melkor´s corruption´s will at the same. The only other alike it, is Ungoliant on the Silmarillion, however this implies issues that made Illuvatar a bit less than perfect as he seems and that outside his domains happens to be even a larger multiverse or something greater than him and his creation, that could be more powerfull than him and oftenly against him too.
All the nameless things are born of the void, the void being the darkness that existed before “god” said let there be light. Before middle earth was created, etc. Before the “song of creation” They pose a bigger threat because in the end all creation ends, and returns to nothingness. They are a different evil that gnaws and consumes creation itself. Its tolkeins omage to outerversal existential horror. A nod to the horror genre most likely
But Balrog was an ancient evil plus the watcher. One of them is a Maiar, I think two is a big number. Kaza dum was their home. Both were there at the time of Malkor. Apart from those, and Orcs, Dwaraves didn't mention any other and they were living there for quite sometime, even orcs were living there and all of these creatures love to make noise.
If you actually read the book sauron was not even that powerful he just had an ambitious mind to rule. There are a lot of being more darker and more evil but they don't think the other realm was an importance to rule or conquer.
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I love how Tolkein merely hinted at what lies deep within the abyss of Middle Earth and not going into detail about these ancient horrors. Simply stated in passing, nothing more.
Oh, Tolkien did write about them. But he burnt all the manuscripts. Unfortunately, a young scholar of him had meticulously copied them all on microfilm, wanting to publish them. He died in mysterious circumstances and, by a random stroke of luck, the microfilms were discovered in the men's restrooms by prof. Randolph Carter, who was at the time, giving a lecture on ancient Polynesian myths at the University of Oxford. Realizing the implications of what he found, he immediately took the microfilms to Arkham. The films are held there, under lock and key, in the section of Forbidden Tomes and only accessible to a handful of individuals around the globe.
I have been able to investigate them, yet I do not want to burden humanity with such knowledge of a nature that's blasphemous against the very existence of life and the universe. May the scholar's death serve as a stark warning against such perilous pursuits.
Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Gandalf indicates that the Balrog was almost a "comfort" A being he understood that he needed to chase. What confronted them both made even the Balrog look "ordinary" as a foe to be understood. Was even the Balrog afraid? Gandalf does not say this outright, but who knows??
As a being of Fear and Terror, I don't imagine afraid is in its vocabulary, iykwim [much like the "menu" that the meat's back on for, is for the Orc's! >XD].
Really had it been afraid it didn't have to chase and hunt them down; had it tried to leave it would be welcomed by the group!
Though after the first week of fighting Gandalf, it may have piqued some concern! :D
The Balrogs fought one of these, I think "Ungoliath" has one of those nameless things, shes very old and ancient like a primordial darknes and no one knew her origin, and yet she got defeated by the balrogs, morgoth feared her but the balrogs didnt.. they came to her with their swords and flames and she has forced to flee away
I always liked the implication that besides the evil that came from gods and spirits that formed the world in bad intensions, the nature of existence itself brings entitys to life that are even worse.
What
Aside from Moria, I was thinking about Ungoliant and how she came into being, if not by Morgoth’s doing? A mighty Valar he was and yet feared her.
Ungoliath absolutely feels like one of these nameless things, "weaving the webs of starless void at the deep places of the earth" Morgoth had to run away from her as she turned her gaze upon him, and the only thing that finally destroyed her was her own hunger consuming herself.
I don't see how the nameless things could be older than Sauron or Gandalf. Sauron and Gandalf were present with Iluvatar when the world was sang into existence
I know Tolkien never wrote it, but I have a theory. That things were in the Void before the Timeless Halls and Eü, things as old as Erü but not all powerful like Erü, but also outside of his power. And that after Arda was formed, they wormed into the circles of the world, slinking into the deep places under shadow in the earliest days, deeper and deeper until they came to the very roots of the world. They aren't evil, they just ARE the opposite of Erü's creationism; nihilism I guess. Making them older than Sauron and Melkor. It's probably a good thing they're down there and not up on the surface or too close to "the deepest delving of the Dwarves". They're is a letter by Tolkien I believe, about Ungoliant, where he says that maybe Ungoliant is a personification of the Void and it's hunger, so it wouldn't be too out of the question I think. They could also be the manifestation of Melkor's contempt, hatred, jealousy, malice, rebellion, and evil that he put into his chords during the Ainurlindale. The Ainurlindale didn't make Eü and Arda, Erü made those BASED OFF the Ainurlindale they sung. Hence why there is some cruelty in the world. But I'd like a game set in these deep slimy lightless chasms and caverns😊
@traceygamer20 I would agree with this interpretation. Those creatures where created from songs sung by Melkor. Personifications of the worst parts buried deep in the roots of the world. Perhaps parts of them had existed before creation in the void, finally given form by Melkor's song.
Well, “Sauron” didn’t always exist from the beginning, Mairon did. “Gandalf” didn’t exist until a millennium into the 3rd age. Not sure if that’s what was meant but it’s one angle from which it could be correct.
@@traceygamer20 A good take. Also important to remind ourselves that this is all fiction, so we will never know exactly who/what/where/when/why/how everything is, just as J.R.R. Tolkien didn't know it all either, as he first sketched, then fleshed out his creation; only having the span of a normal human life to contemplate and update his work. I sense a lot of metaphor here too, as well as some concepts likely borrowed (consciously or not) from H.P. Lovecraft's recurring themes and characters. Even if Tolkien could have lived three lifespans, I suspect he would continue to develop, refine, then reevaluate and alter a variety of thins, while we, of only one lifespan, would not live to see the end. Those born much later would probably still encounter a vast store of lore that was yet not complete.
@@landofalwayswinter666 Gandalf was originally known as Olorin and was there as long as Mairon aka Sauron
Take a shot each time he says gnaw.
Or every time he mentions that they’re older than everyone else and live deep.
Or when he make-up quotes. This is AI bullshit.
I should be able to understand the nameless things by the time I’m done 😂😂
The video is very repetitive
In my opinion these could be the remnants of Melcor's discord that he did during the creating of Arda.
This makes the most sense. Otherwise where else did they come from. Unless Eru made them first. 🤔
Yea thats othe only logical explination, nothing can be older then that.
bingo!!
@@darrellparris3549who's to say that, arda is not just earth 30.0 and, that Eru has reset creation multiple times...
The Pits of Utemundo
I always thought of their origin as Melkors disruption and curruption as Arda was formed. When he brought his own influence in while the other Valar worked together. And twisted things in the foundation of the world itself.
11:13 Might you have misspoken? Gandalf pursued the Balrog deep into the roots of Earth where they might have encountered the Nameless Things but they duelled all the way up to the peaks where he defeatd & threw Balrog down. Gandalf is fully spent & after that, passes out, awaiting his judgment, really unable to do anything mor, let alone journey again through the deepest places?
He's clearly reading AI generated gibberish. I'm guessing it didn't fully understand the original writing.
They sound almost lovecraften🤔
That's how they're interpreted in Lord of the Rings Online. There are weird alien creatures way down at the bottom of the endless stair in moria
It is a concept that predates both.
Tolkien took inspiration from many mythos, so it's not surprising in the slightest
Thats where Tolkien got the idea
A few minutes ago i wrote the same, it also came in my mind right away when and how they were discribed at the beginning off the Video! Greetings from Austria 🙂
I am probably not the only one who thinks of lovecraftian monsters when listening to this. It is the greatest kind of horror - the nameless, ancient beings so alien to us is that we can only imagine the archaic horror.
I said the same thing myself about a day or two ago, there something truly creepy about them, Not sure if JRT was awere of Lovecraft work🤔
@@alanaspinall7147 he was aware
I came to the comments to mention Lovecraft, or see if anyone else had.
I like the idea that there are creatures, or beings, that remain mysterious and unexplained. Deconstructing every last detail of the world would rob it of mystery - and by extension, enjoyment.
So true. I love lovecraftian horror and i cant help but think this was tolkien's nod to him. Im so fascinated with the nameless things and a part of me would love to see SOMETHING that gives us an idea of what they are but youre right. In some cases, the questions are better than answers especially when it comes to ancient agents of darkness and destruction
@@rjzavala87 Amen to that! I've been watching a few video essays on the Nameless Things. It's a very compelling concept!
One of them cited one of Tolkien's letters - in which he stated that not everything in the world needed explaining. Ungoliant, Shelob, the Watcher, the Nameless Things - I LOVE the idea that there were dark powers that even Morgoth and Sauron didn't touch!
@@solitarysurreal3652 ''I LOVE the idea that there were dark powers that even Morgoth and Sauron didn't touch!''
I couldn't have stated that sentence any better. If Sauron went to battle these things it would be evil versus an even greater evil that outmatches the madness and pure evil that Sauron is capable of and makes his exploits insignificant
didnt know dwarved had 6 fingers 1:55 lol
The giant spider came from the void not from the Creator. So perhaps the nameless things also came from the void 🤔
Gandalf might have solo'd an Elite, but lower still in Moria is effectively Elder Gods.
I LOVE your videos, and this is a really cool topic. This video felt very repetitive, though. There was a lot of "older than ___", "more evil than ___: "gnawing at the roots of the earth. " I wouldn't have minded a shorter video or this being included in a "the evils of the world" video.
Because there's only a sentence about it in the books, this is just fluffy filler.
Thank you for covering this subject, ive been very curious about this topic.
I would've wished some more (of your) well-educated speculation. To me, it seems Like they are in some substantial ways related to Ungolianth, who also crawled Out of the primordial darkness
They sound like Fallen Vallar that had taken a demented form OR the Creatures that Melkor made in Utamundo
The manifestation of Melkors discord.
They wouldn’t be older than Sauron in that case…
I think they formed from Melkors part in the original song that created Arda
I think you might be wrong, Gandalf 's metaphysical journey wasn't in the bowels of the earth. He fell with the Balrog into the Abyss, chased it to the peak, and then fought it, falling with it as they destroyed the mountain. Then his spirit travelled to Valinor and was sent by the Valar as Gandalf the white.
yes, the text is AI generated and is not accurate.
Dam! The artwork you're using is amazing!
Thank you!
Almost all the pictures are AI. Nothing is accurate. They have 6 fingers etc.
@@patmaghthey're still pretty good
Meh, a lot of overthinking here.
Most of the quotations are, in the best traditions of storytelling, teeing-up the Balrog for his grand entrance.
All this talk of other, malevolent forces ignores that Moria was repopulated under Durin VII and held until dwarves ended.
Sure, the Nameless things, they're alluded to entities, but their influence on the narrative is being overstated.
Yeah, I agree. We do have SOME ideas. Teh one being int he story that is like them, and named is Ungoliant.
@@marhawkman303 I was thinking they were beings like Ungoliant who could have come from the Void itself.
@@minuette1752 Yeah and... more than one Ungoliant is a terrifying idea.
“I have looked upon all that the universe has to hold of horror, and even the skies of spring and the flowers of summer must ever afterward be poison to me.”
Badass quote
I have my own theory. Eru awoke and was alone. He then sang the Ainur into being. To do that, he first hummed a prefect note to set that pitch, then cleared his throat and sang the Ainur.
That first note and throat clear, unintentionally, became Tom and the Nameless Things. Eru needed a place to put them, since they were not the angelic being he planned. So, he had the Ainur sing the Ainulindalë to create a world, without telling them the reason it was needed.
This is why the Nameless Things can be older the Sauron and how he knows them not. It also gives a reason for Bombadil saying he is oldest. I believe Tom’s purpose was to keep reign of the Nameless Things. This too says to why he didn’t participate in any of the wars throughout the ages and set his own boundaries. Those wars were beneath him.
You’re a nerd obsessing over a made up world. Of course you’re right, because it’s fantasy and there is no wrong with the interpretation of fantastical tales
@@mishaDorjan and you’re a troglodyte, making fun of people that have a passion for things more profound and meaningful than your fantasy sports leagues, your Andrew Tate videos and your Diddy parties.
@@mishaDorjan and you’re a Troglodyte that likes to make fun of people who have a thoughtful passion and respect for more profound learning experiences that have nothing to do with your fantasy sports leagues, your Andrew Tate fandom, and your Diddy parties…
@@mishaDorjanit's about what is internally consistent. Stop being a Debbie downer.
Great theory, makes sense.
selmerilion explains it well enough when Morgoth messed up the music of creation and deployed evil things in Arda
How can they be older than the Valar if the Valar are the ones who sang the world into creation?
Maybe they are older in the sense that they have been longer on Arda. The Ainur sung Arda into creation, including the nameless things (or as a byproduct of the discord), and descended into Arda after they were already created. So they are older in that sense.
These videos are far better than rings of power
I’ve been through the desert on a thing with no name…
Oooo do tell
@@traceygamer20 the ocean is a desert with its life undergrouns
Very cool! Thanks!
I believe the Nameless Things were blinked into existence through Morgoth's interference with Illuvatar's theme, during the initial forming of Middle-Earth.
Beautiful graphics for this strange story 👍❤
Very nice, gets me chills those unknown horrors, spirits and powers. Now you can clearly understand were Games Workshop did got their inspiration for the Chaos gods and legions. Its purely chaos those nameless things!
The Namelss Things are not friends or Foe, they are just foreign being that exist out of the plots and struggles of the protagonits... which makes them frightening
Excellent video! As Love craft said “ indescribable “ ….
I had nameless things living under my bed and in my closet as a child, and yes, they are horrifying. 👺🦹♀️🧟👹
Makes perfect sense that regardless on how mighty the Balrog were, there is no way one alone could make to get rid of ALL the Dwarves population in Moria, if by chance he wasn´t joined or aided by something else which in combination made so much confusing and deadly to properly identify it as a simple Balrog itself. After all though it has been a lot of time since the very last time, either the Elves, Dwarves or Men met a Balrog, they kinda ought to be well acknowledged somehow on the Ancient Stories of First Age, and as the First Original and Greater Dark Lord before Sauron, Morgoth rellyied heavily on their help too then.
The Balrog seems to have known them more than anyone, so sad he couldn´t tell more about it.
It makes perfect sense to connect those foreboding foreshadows of an unknown ancient horror and larger danger than the Orcs on Moria, however as the Balrog/Durin´s Bane hadn´t been found what it was before meeting it, and its true nature was also unknown, that foreboding sense of ancient doom could be implying it at the same.
Have to wonder what Gollum would say about the Nameless Things of Moria since he lived there for centuries.
I believer the quote “There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world” is by Gandalf sirrrr
Personally i think the nameless things are beings from outside eru's creation, that generally only stray into its fringes and subsist by consuming scant amounts of the concept of the world. Staying beings more of concept and allegory than flesh and blood so long as they do not venture into the world too far.
I think this because gandalf never calls them evil, just dark. The connection between light and dark good and evil is strong in lotr but gandalf doesn't tend to shy from calling evil at face value.
So i think gandalfs obvious discomfort of them must stem from a different reason.
Tolkien was one of the best storytellers of all time, and he used all kinds of techniques to keep the reader’s attention. By creating an enigma he triggered the reader’s own imagination to figure out what this could be. Something so scary that you can’t even talk about and that doesn’t have a name sounds really frightening. People tend to be afraid of the unknown. Compare it to the clickbait you will find on internet today. An other enigma is Tom Bobadill. Who or what is he. He is not evil and is a side note in the story of the rings and the simarillion.
Again it triggers the reader’s imagination4. Maybe that is the intention of these enigmas in the first place. Compare it to a pretty girl in a tiny bikini. She looks more sexy in that bikini that hardly covers anything than she would if she was butt naked. Your imagination fills out the blanks and makes it more interesting. A more family friendly alternative is Donald Duck and his friends. Normally they walk around without pants and looks dressed, but when they go to the beach they put on old style bathing suits and looks undressed. Again your brain is playing tricks on you. Tolkien had a whole arsenal of tricks he used in his storytelling.😅😅😅
OMG there is the key-word about hinting on the Nameless Things indeed being kinda sensed by the Dwarves before and as they wake up Durin´s Bane - which they didn´t knew was a Balrog untill very late as the Fellowship met him - the word is GNAWED as Gandalf tells about them later on!!
In Norse mythology the dragon Nidhogg gnaws at the roots of the World Tree Yggdrassil .
Also called jormungandr
Tolkiens world is actually so thinly grazed trough on the big screen, and its such a shame. i mean i guess we have rings of power now wich just does not do tolkien justice imo. this video however..
So this is where WoW got it from ? The void lords being one with azeroth and slowly destroying the world fits perfectly to what is said in this video
The existence of the Nameless Things hints that regardless of the Dwarves regaining Moria´s domain some time later after the end of The Lord of the Rings story, on the Fourth Age, they might not be ever lasting after all, and an impending DOOM will came from the deeppest regions of their domain as before and perhaps even more deadly than with the Balrog before.
Who did the artwork? The illustrations are awesome
How much evil can one really get up to down there? Clearly they’re not evil enough to have ever came up to the surface to cause shit. There I’ll be down there to survive and happy they don’t have to fucking talk to Wizard’s and shit
Exactly right?? They just dwelve in the depths of the earth not really doing anything evil, serial killers, rapists, criminals in general do a lot more evil than these things that dont really seem to do anything…🤷🏻🤷🏻they lamee
Just a little glimpse of Lovecraft in Tolkien's legendarium
I think Tolkien meant for there to be no explanation for what they are, which makes them even scarier
How did the dwarves dig dangerously close to the nameless things or feel their presence or disturb them? Gandalf was clear that the dwarves never came near them.
You contradicted Gandalf's words, and attributed a famous Gandalf quote to Gimli. I'm not only disliking this video but I'm not watching anymore of your content because I don't trust your accuracy.
I’m not sure what the plan for the unknown things were within middle earth. I’m curious if they were planned to be the next big villain.
I like Tolkien´s idea not to explain everything. It makes totally sense. For me the nameless things represent and unite the worst qualities of the living beings on the surface. For example the greed of the dwarfs, bellicosity or the striving for power which cumulates in a manifestation of these creatures. They aren´t evil per se, they are fed by the Zeitgeist, so they became big and strong, sometimes they sleep. They are like feelings lay down in the unconscious. Or they are like Shiva, who comes from time to time and cleaned everything out. For me it is time, and I am around.
Melkor had an ancient war with the Valar millions of years before the 1st age. Moria MUST BE the resting place of his original soldiers and minions
The Nameless Things were just chilling in the deep dark, minding their own business, unless disturbed.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die - hp lovecraft
The beginning of the video sounds like a warhammer 40k intro
when gandalf fight balrog, it shows us about hollow earth..
Theres three kinds of knowledge; the known, the unknown and the unknowable. Gandalf the known, the balrog the unknown and the nameless things are the unknowable
of course the presence of lovecraft's horrors have to exist even in lord of the rings.
It follows a very similar sense of mystery along Lovecraftian lore. Delving too deep into places not meant to be found.
Like summarizing Lovecraft's tale, that Knowledge is like a vast ocean, and we are not meant to venture far.
Morgoth and Sauron just want to rule the roost.
The Nameless things want to eat the roost.
I wonder if the nameless things will ever come out of the deeps of Moria and threaten middle earth
My head canon is that they are Fraggles.
There is nothing like a good stretch followed by a long reach to grasp at thin air. The world has the works of Lovecraft to enjoy there is no need to look for him in the works of Tolkien.
It one's remind a bit off lovecraft, right! Those creatures in the abyss! Greetings from Austria 🙂
Everything that exists in the world of Tolkien supposedly came forth from Eru Ilúvatar or Melkor. So from where such nameless evil would come from? Could they be “seepage” from the void? This reminds me a lot of Lovecraft.
2:10 which race in Middle Earth has six fingers on their hands? lol
New images are good
The picture of the hand holding mithril in thr first couple minutes had 5 fingers
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
What do you mean?
Rock and stone! We're rich!
For Karl!
11:39 Why are you quoting Gandalf's description of his experiences after he defeated the Balrog as if he was still in the chasms of Moria?
TLDR: This things are old and unknown.
However as I know it´s Gandalf personality he just couldn´t have left aside this new knowledge about a foreboding ancient powerfull evil source on the future, and leave Middle Earth just as that, so he kinda have made up something on secret, being therefore his very last meeting with Tom Bombadill and the unknown issues they disscused on. Then maybe... that´s how Gandalf realizes the true nature of Tom himself, and sets up to have a proper counsel or plan against these lurking evils.
Evil by their mere presence or by their deeds?
Who's to say that, arda is not just earth 30.0 and, that Eru has reset creation quite a few times...
I mean, the all-powerful seems pretty chill with a bunch of his creations going totally rouge and going ape$sh1t all over the world, turning arda into a legit battle royale for genocidal supremacy. He doesn't lift a single finger about it, on the contrary, this all seems to part of his blueprint.
If ainur can turn into things like balrogs, I think its a safe bet that, what would pass as the earlier versions of ainur, might've come up with similarly monstrous incarnations and, such impossibly ancient entities may be the last remnants of ages, wars and horrors that would put virgin Melkor and the war of wrath to shame...
Eru lifting a finger is a subtle thing easily missed, but it happens.
The Valar learned that opposing the enemy in power creates destruction and causes fear among the Children of Iluvatar. Eru always knew this.
His interventions include the 'coincidental' gathering at Rivendell of the Fellowship and advisors, the 'luck' frequently encountered, the strength and humility of hobbits, the mercy of Bilbo, the obsession of Gollum.
Eru created the template for Reality and all its components then allowed living things to choose their actions, from Melkor to Sam Gamgee, but nothing any of them did could break the template.
One way to see LotR is as a battle between two unseen forces - Eru and Sauron. Both remain outside the story but their influence is felt everywhere.
@@pumellhorne "obsession of Gollum"
Damn, completely devastated that poor bastard into an abomination
So what or who were the hordes of orcs that took over Moria eating? There weren't settlements nearby to raid, they certainly aren't farmers and there is no mention of Mordor's logistics corps arranging wagon convoys to such far off outposts
There are many cave-dwelling cultures in recorded history: the Puebloans, the Dine peoples, the cloud dwellers of Colombia, the cave dwellers of Turkiye (sic), and Tibetic ascetics in the Greater Himalayas. These cultures farmed crops and animals in the caves and just outside them, and Moria had a cleft in the roof like a canyon. These peoples also gathered, and Moria seems to be as big as the well-known gigantic caves with their own ecosystems and wind currents. Also, the Wood-men and the Beornings lived next to Moria, as did the Eagles (and presumably rooks, wrens, and thrushes), and the Wargs would have had plenty of wolf food like deer and such.
Dol Goldur isn't too far off from Moria. Dol Goldur was the second biggest stronghold of Sauron. Perhaps food was coming from there
@@andrewvincent7299 It would make more sense for Dol Goldur to help Nurn supply Mordor.
@@rikhuravidansker You're indeed correct about those cultures; but can you imagine Orc's farming and keeping cattle... maybe the Rings of Power Orc's; or maybe Moria has its own maggoty bread baker*! :D
... and another answer could/would be; the weakest or most annoying in the group
* inside the Adar supermarket; complete with a butcher who sells flamed, cured dwarf meat!? :D
@@TheEyez187 Orcs are described as "ugly and degraded versions of (to Europeans), least lovely Mongol-types," meaning they are the ancestors of Turkic peoples (who are physically different from Mongols and whites and thus ugly to both), with "ugly and degraded" meaning orcs should look like Cossacks and stereotypical fat Turks. Therefore, orcs would eat a steppe people diet.
Carful in those caves you might bump into blob Sauron 😮
Looks like Eru Illuvatar is indeed the monster that Melkur always claimed He was and that Eru wanted evil and terror and suffering for Arda . Melkur was right all along .
I was under the impression that these creature we song into being by Melkor when his part of the song was sung in counter point to the love and harmony sung by the rest of the Valar. He wove greed, jealousy and hatred into the world.
@@christophermetzger8183 Eru created Melkor in his own image and set him loose on that world. I don't give the creator and enabler of monsters a pass . Melkor was right to hate Eru .
@vasp99 Melkor had free will. He was made in the image of his father, Eru Illuvatar, but his actions are his own. Perhaps Eru could have spent more time shaping Melkor maybe Melkor would not turn out to be such a petty child. I don't know, but Melkor decide early on to try and trash the song of creation and the world of Arada. I never ready silmarillion so I don't know Melkor motivation.
@@christophermetzger8183 there's no such thing as free will in Tolkien's version of the Old Testament . Eru's intensely sadistic treatment of humanity is straight out of Sodom and Gamorrah . Everything other than the fall of Numenor is decorative . Tolkien may never have admitted to hating god but everything he wrote depicts intentional suffering inflicted by a creator on his creations . The Valar are pathetic milksops who just can't rescue middle earth because that's the way the creator created his creation . Tolkien saw the horrors of life and tried to stamp an acceptable reason for those horrors . Tolkien utterly failed to do so .
@@christophermetzger8183 Melkor wanted "to create things of his own" without asking for help from Eru, and accidentally caused chaos into the song. He then tried to reorder the Valar's creations, and his first evil deed appears to be kidnapping sleeping elves and men for use in the First War. To be fair, Eru/Yhwh does all the stuff in the Bible that Melkor/Satan does in the Legendarium: "If Peter Griffin gets to be a jerk all the time why not Donald Trump?"
What would become if the nameless thing got corrupted by the ring
Sauron wasn't that evil, Morgoth was evil. Sauron wanted to rule Arda because he felt he was the most competent to do it.
In fact he, apart from magic, can be considered similar to Daenerys Targaryen. She had also a dispotic agenda, considering herself the only one that can rule both westeros and essos and her "truth" was the only legit truth. Daenerys devoted herself in "freeing" the world
Sauron devoted himself to healing the middle earth
He is evil because he has no problem murdering and enslaving everyone who disagrees with him lol
@@DarthPlasmanot to mention the countless evil things he’s done such as the Great Plague
He is a mass murderer, enslaver, and dictator that would remove all free will from the peoples of Middle-earth. He. Is. Evil!
Though the mention of Nameless Things is so awesome and scariest over the top it also seems to be BUG or GLITCH and CRACK on the reality of the same fabric of creation and foundations on Tolkien´s world because this implies something BEYOND either by Illuvatar´s planning and neither Melkor´s corruption´s will at the same. The only other alike it, is Ungoliant on the Silmarillion, however this implies issues that made Illuvatar a bit less than perfect as he seems and that outside his domains happens to be even a larger multiverse or something greater than him and his creation, that could be more powerfull than him and oftenly against him too.
00:04:15
Karl would approve
All the nameless things are born of the void, the void being the darkness that existed before “god” said let there be light.
Before middle earth was created, etc.
Before the “song of creation”
They pose a bigger threat because in the end all creation ends, and returns to nothingness.
They are a different evil that gnaws and consumes creation itself.
Its tolkeins omage to outerversal existential horror. A nod to the horror genre most likely
But Balrog was an ancient evil plus the watcher. One of them is a Maiar, I think two is a big number. Kaza dum was their home. Both were there at the time of Malkor. Apart from those, and Orcs, Dwaraves didn't mention any other and they were living there for quite sometime, even orcs were living there and all of these creatures love to make noise.
If you actually read the book sauron was not even that powerful he just had an ambitious mind to rule. There are a lot of being more darker and more evil but they don't think the other realm was an importance to rule or conquer.
almost sounds like tomkien made an homage to HP Lovecraft😎
Well done! The consistency of artwork is perfection…liked and subscribed!
Older than Tom Bombadil, who was always there?
7:16 isn't that Gandalf's quote and not Gimli's?
Lions and Tigers and Bears
Nameless children of Ilúvatar
Maybe its creatures like Ungoliant - even Melcor feared her and unusually bad and somewhat limitless in dark power and hunger.
ROCK AND STONE
Did you confuse Gimli with Gandalf?
Is that Grave Lord Nito?🤔
Why do I get the feeling this is an AI generated script with an AI voiceover?