Remember when Dave gave up his Comedy Central fortune to go self reflect in Africa because he didn't like who was laughing at his jokes or how they were doing it? We live in the timeline where he decided to go with money and power. Maybe this was always the canon outcome.
Even that was just rich person nonsense. It's something I thought was dumb back then but couldn't bring up as easily since Dave was so beloved. It's not impressive to take a vacation and leave a show when it doesn't have any impact on your wealth or status. He never risked anything. He wasn't wrong to do so but it wasn't laudable to do so either. He never gave up a fortune, dude has never not been rich since he got there. Would he have poo poo'd Comedy Central if he was at risk of working at a Burger King? Nah, I don't think so.
@@BasedGoddie cap and cope. They still shitted out his unfinished work as The Lost Episodes. They gave his whole format to Key and Peele, something he's still bitter about. And I speculate he didn't get what he wanted since he tells people not to stream, or at least pirate, Chappelle Show.
I wonder why he likes who’s laughing at his jokes now. Or maybe he quit caring. For me Katt is better. Burr even better than that. None of them hold a candle to Pryor or Carlin for goat status. Chronocentric bull I tell ya. He just cool with the famous peeps.
Trans-ness is not the same as blackness. I could make a fifteen-hour critique of this video. This guy should be canceled - that's what you guys believe in. Is it not? Have your medicine.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzfirstly, his comment wasn’t about that at all. Secondly, transness and blackness or however you identify the two, aren’t the same, BUT you can’t say you’re supporting black people if you’re not supporting a black person because they decide to be transgender. Being transgender doesnt directly impact anybody except themselves and their physical partner. So to not support a black person when they’re doing no harm to anybody, just makjng themselves the best version they see fit of themselves, is not supportive. No one’s saying cancel Dave, most people just wanted him to see that he actually is just supporting hate with his comments whether he means to or not
Agree, and he always remind his audience that he came from a working class family and then he joke about how he try to understand something new only to end up with a dumb conclusion. Which i think it's funny, wholesome and very relatable.
Also as a white person in an interracial relationship it's very relatable to me. I was also constantly flaking and suffering. I used to say dang I'm itchy twice a day until my now spouse was like "then. Put some lotion on??" They changed my fucking life
It’s funny because bill comes off as more raunchy but bill also shows his vulnerability, admits to his own ignorance on stage. Dude is an open book and still manages to be funny and edgy in a good way
5:53 To understand why the word lifestyle is a useless word in this context I quote George Carlin: " And you will not hear me refer to anyone's lifestyle . If you want to know what a moronic word "lifestyle" is, all you have to do is realize that in a technical sense, Atilla the Hun had an active outdoor lifestyle ."
When you're cheesing in a picture w Lauren Boebert, you know you've hit the rock bottom of life. I wonder if he'll ever look back at this moment and cringe. Probably not.
Right? It's the same as cultivating a cool attitude of not caring about other people's opinions, but also wanting those same people to think you are cool because of that attitude. It's just not going to happen.
when talking to some of my peers over the years, i feel like im the outcast. im telling you when i hear other black men not being transphobic i get taken aback and it shouldnt feel that way. thank you for saying the things i get roasted for and looked down on.
You’re just on the forefront of what will someday hopefully be normal. Your opinions and values will age well, as opposed to the people who made fun of you.
A lot of comedians that whine about being canceled like to compare themselves to great comedians from the past that faced censorship. But the key difference is the classic greats were punching up, not down, and they got in hot water with institutions for challenging their power, not the common folk for being bigoted.
They perceive trans people as being “above them” in society because they’re finally gettin equal treatment, the same way alot of white people felt about black people in the 70s
@@himwhoisnottobenamed5427 There is definitely such a thing. It's why jokes at the expense of marginalized groups or people with disabilities are generally frowned upon.
Whenever people tell me "why can't you just passively enjoy media/art?" I'm just so baffled that people don't want to use their brains to think about anything critically.
@@m.dave2141there is a time and place to do both. Sure. Hell it’s a reason why I enjoyed Rebel Moon. I turned off my brain and enjoyed the grungy Star Wars ripoff. The problem is that Dave Chapelle considers himself a voice for marginalized people. That has been a big part of his material for decades and it’s why he has a large audience today. Can you passively consume his comedy specials without thinking too deeply about the point he’s making? Sure. But then I think you don’t get the right to complain that some people might find said performance bigoted. Just passively consume and be on your way.
I'm right there with you. I'm amazed at how so many people don't engage with the media they consume. I see it alot with music. Metal has a lot of progressive groups and I see tons of metal heads say the most bigoted shit while jammin super progressive music. Well they never think critically about the music and it's lyrics. They just hear brutal breakdowns and screams and assume it's just macho angry noise. A great example is how many right wingers like rage against the machine. While supporting the very machine RATM is against. Weird world
@@DropThatRamen RATM has this beautiful recurring cycle where a rare moment of paying attention may occur and suddenly they'll feel that the band changed their message and it didn't used to be so political. It's excellent insight into the process.
and i do want to be able to just vibe with some media! but i can’t when the media decides [oppressed minority] is the butt of the joke. it’s very annoying.
I was shocked about Dave's lack of self-awareness when he told the story about his trans friend. I mean, every Black person has had that experience of a white person excusing their bigoted behavior away because they have a Black friend who is OK with it. It was crazy that he didn't see the analogy.
Literally, it feels like a bit that he would normally make fun of "I don't hate the trans, my best friend is trans... ANNNNDDD they killed themself" and he legit used that as his actual defense. The Irony is radiating
Chappelle has descended to getting laughter from the catharsis of validation: when you reaffirm someone’s taboo feelings and they laugh out of satisfaction that they are vindicated by an authority.
It stands to question why these feelings are taboo at all, why he even needs to or feels the need to cater to such an audience. Have they been browbeaten to supress their otherwise valid objections to a progressing moral code under the guise of compassion? In his newest special, The Madman's Manifesto [still on tour], which has not seen radio/tv air yet, he directly talks about his experience with trans people, how he failed to understand them and is out of his depth, and leads this into a hysterical anecdote on Jim Carry's Andy Kaufman which I won't spoil. Moreover, it's precisely when humor IS offensive that we need it most. Comedy should PROVOKE. It should blast through prejudices, challenge preconceptions. Comedy should always leave you different than when it found you. Sure, humor can hurt, even alienate, but the risk is better than the alternative: a steady diet of innocuous, child-proof, flavorless mush. Demand to be challenged, to be offended, to be treated like thinking, reasoning adults. And raise your children to be the same. Don't let a comedian, a network, a Congressional committee, or an evil genius take away your freedom to laugh at whatever you want.
@@jacqueminot7224 ive seen your comments all throughout the comments section, and i guess my core question is what makes being transphobic more taboo than being transgender? wouldnt being transgender be the more unexpected and uncomfortable thing, and therefore be a stronger taboo than the relatively comfortable spot of thinking tans people are kind of weird and gross? Is it taboo if it earns him continued netflix specials and a large audience? how is it taboo if the audience already agrees with him?
Reading this comment made me immediately think two things: 1. I'm really happy you get to live your truth man. I know those specific cross-sections are historically difficult culturally and I'm glad you get to be proud of every aspect of who you are. 2. It made me curious if you watch Foreign Man in a Foreign Land's content because he talks about these issues and intersections from the perspective of someone from the Caribbean (if by the extreme off chance you're not familiar, he's from the Bahamas specifically). I'd be surprised if you haven't come across his channel since they run in the same circles, but if you haven't I think you would be interested and if you have *I'm* interested in *your* take. (Obviously you could be from a different country, I'm not trying to generalize the Caribbean as a single unified experience.) Sorry for the length. I'm just always interested in different perspectives.
@@searchingfororion Thanks! I do watch Foreign, (i’m from Trinidad & Tobago, but a lot of the general Caribbean social commentary he makes connects). The Caribbean black experience is so underrepresented on the stage in these circles; it is often just lumped in with the American black experience, or we are all considered Jamaican. Having folks like him (and Andrewism and Olay etc) that also are pro-human rights is great and my algorithm seems to get that finally. Also this isn’t a dig at you specifically, I you know you meant well by your second part, but it felt a little patronizing. A lot of Caribbean people at a minimum lurk in these circles, and there’s an unconscious tendency for non-Caribbean folk to see us as more generally divorced from American media (including TH-cam), literature and politics, whether by choice or lack of resources, when in reality it is most of what we are consumed by, for better or worse. I appreciate the feedback nonetheless!
@@mrbubbies_ I'm underslept so I'm not entirely sure which you were referencing as my second half; if it was my inquiry about foreign in general that was simply me being critical of the algorithm and it's lack of reliability to showcase certain types of creators and/or make good recommendations. If it was my parenthetical about "not trying to generalize the Caribbean" that was poorly worded, I certainly understand that Carribian people share a quite a bit and solidarity (for lack of a better way to describe what I'm trying to say, it's a bit like we LGBTQ+ family though that analogy is extremely weak in comparison to the effects of colonization ect. My 2hrs of sleep brain is not doing justice to this very serious issue that unfortunately many are uninformed about.) My intention was to say that each country is unique despite stereotyping and misconceptions - the idea that everywhere is Jamaica and Rastafarianism is only about weed, dreadlocks, and tunes being another - and I didn't want to propagate the idea that the individual identities, nuances, and experiences within separate countries were interchangeable. Regardless of how I made it seem that way, that's absolutely not acceptable and certainly not something I would ever want to appear to endorse. In fact, it's been my experience that individuals outside the U.S have a much better grasp of what's happening here than the average citizen here (not to mention world affairs in general e.g; Foreign's video where he tries to talk to his professor about Hati). I have my theories but I'll spare you that. The point is, regardless of intent, I screwed up. Thanks for pointing it out because the implications are insulting and could perpetuate ignorance and more sterotyping. If *this* comment is sloppy too, I'm sorry. I meant nothing but respect. I appreciate you giving me that in your response.
@@mrbubbies_ Unrelated: If that's you in your pfp, you're rocking it. The style has a bit of Hud from "Hair" (the film) vibes which I find totally rad. [I'm not being creepy, just wanted to compliment your aesthetic choices and presentation.] I'm also a photography nerd and take notice to black and white portraits done well - this one is very much so. Once again, I'll spare the ramble regarding why. Wish the best for you fam. I appreciate your grace with me.
@@jonathanparker7895 I was writing my other comment when you wrote yours. (To clarify in case anyone reading the above perceives me being flippant or shallow in the wake of the subject). Of course that practice was horrendous. Among all the things done during the slave trade, many argue it was the worst of all. (I know that different people will have their own suggestions for the list, I'm simply stating the opinions of some historians) This is of course because of the severity of the psychological trauma in addition to the severe and various forms of physical abuse and public spectacle. However, I don't see a good faith connection being made here. If the "it" you are referring to not being tolerated on the islands is being trsnsgender; 1. Gender identity and sexuality are not related. 2. Not being heterosexual and SA are not related. 3. These were acts of colonization to "tame" a populace and demonstrate their "power". As an individual who is decended from a nearly eradicated people, living on fully colonized land - the common denominator is typically cultural erasure and forced conversion. That's a rather global issue. I'm not downplaying the pain this particular atrocity caused, nor that it would have long-term generational suffering. I just feel you're reaching, hyper focused, or didn't express your thesis clearly enough. TL;DR: How does the brutal abuse by slave owners have ANYTHING to do with what OP said about speaking against transphobia?
I'm denying the legitimacy of that 'differing opinion' bs. IMHO, it's not a debate and there are not 'two sides' to any of these discussions. There's the reality and life of the people living it, and then there's some random bunghole's meaningless mouth-gas. Particularly in the case where people think they're entitled to 'debate' trans healthcare, I have simply put my foot down. it's a bad faith debate, external parties are NOT invited into my doctor's office, they ARE NOT OFFERING a competing treatment or any clear idea whatsoever of what such would look like. I'll wear them TF down with demands to see their peer-reviewed proof that their notion of what this treatment looks like is superior to the one we have. The same with any of their other bigoted bs. They DON'T HAVE a legitimate or informed opinion. it is very revealing to try to probe at the basis of their thoughts and on a public forum it's also fun because they're too arrogant to walk away so they just keep stepping in their own shit, on invitation.
@@angie99656Two questions for you: 1. Are the opinions of detransitioners who advocate for alternative treatments and/or a different approach legitimate? 2. Why do you think Nordic/European countries have hit the brakes on their approach with regard to trans healthcare?
@@milesmungo A demographic is not a monolith. Asking to cast an opinion on an entire group of people and their actions when it's something so very personalized to the individual comes across as a bad faith question if not just a poorly formed one.
@@milesmungo Clearly you intended these to be zingers. Ex-trans political detransitioners advocating for forced detransition/conversion therapy are the same as ex-gays twenty years ago, and bear strong resemblence to anti-abortion tactics. The same dozen has been carted around the US for the past year for hearings in every state because they can't find homegrown ones who will support their anti-trans endeavors. The people who detransition because they realized they weren't trans is around 0.01 percent of people who transition. These are grown adults who made their own decisions as adults and are now grifting from conservatives. So, this framing aside, advocating that trans bodies be violated and healthcare be snatched away is never legitimate, no matter which mouthpiece it comes from. Most Europeans countries never advancved past the 1960s with trans care, especially the Scandinavian ones. Sweden required that trans people be sterilized in order to transition until 2013, and others held similar requirments along with other regressive gatekeeping. They haven't "hit the brakes" they have regressed from an already conservative position. To say otherwise is to lie from ignorance. Europe's medical institutions have only rarely been progressive on the matter of trans people. In a time of rising anti-trans activity, it's no surprise that certain nations would regress even further. This is the might-makes-right fallacy--cis people have the power to oppress trans people, and in this case they choose to do so and invent a rationalization for it.
@@milesmungoalso vaguely humorous that you apparently are ignoring the irony of them saying outright they dont want to engage with uninformed parties asking random shit, and you didnt say anything except 'i have questions for you' implying youre Owed a response with questions that are so basic and uninformed it makes me question why you even thought you should be engaging here
Dave seeing trans issues as something that exists in competition with black issues is so frustrating, like he can't get his mind around the fact that the LGBTQ community isn't a group of solely white, privileged brats demanding to have their problems given priority over black issues to the detriment of black people. The guy completely sucks at understanding intersectionalism. It's wild because I'm SURE tons of people have explained to him that black trans women are the most victimized by transphobia by now, but he still views it within this "white sex weirdos vs the black community" framework.
It's probably because the issue of gay marriage was put as the top issue of gay people. It almost always featured arguments made by white gay people who could afford destination weddings to states where marriage was legal and how unfair it was they couldn't get access to marriage benefits. Never focused on things like housing discrimination, employment discrimination, it lacked intersectionality.
It is frustrating how blind Dave seems to be about the fact that there are LGBTQ people who are black, and black people can be LGBTQ too. Black trans women need to be protected. Hire black trans women so they have more opportunities.
Not only did Dave bring up his trans friend as an excuse, he lied about her. Her suicide wasn’t from other trans people bullying her. Kat Blaque has a video about this
THIS! He was so close to his supposed "friend" that he failed to mention she had recently been fired and lost custody of her kid and suffered from PTSD. According to Dave, her suicide was all over defending him against mean trans bullies, who, as far as I could see from going on her Twitter feed, didn't exist. Not only did he tokenize her, but then he used her death to further indict her community. It was gross.
Exactly. He completely fabricated the level of backlash she got from other trans people for defending him, and the timeline of when her death happened. Her sister also had to speak up and confirm that the factors leading to her death had nothing to do with issues with other trans people. Once I learned just how much he lied on that woman in order to use her as a weapon, that was the point I realized this man, more than simply being ignorant as hell, is just flat out evil.
The other very subtle thing in the Closer was not only did he use his "trans friend" and not so subtly imply that her suicide was from trans people being mean... but then he dedicated the special to Norm MacDonald. Not saying he can't dedicate that special to Norm, that's fine, but the fact that he didn't *also* dedicate the special to his "trans friend" was a very subtle but heavily disturbing tell on his desire to simply use her to make a statement.
Then you didn't actually watch it. He clearly said he wasn't saying the hate online was the reason for his friend to off herself, and that he didn't know exactly the reason why because she didn't leave a note about it so therefore he wouldn't make assumptions. Get your facts straight. And you're acting like a comedian doing their job on stage is part of the real world and they're doing a Ted talk. It's comedy, not an inspirational speech.
@@Pumpkin0_0 Deleted tweets persist after deletion, specifically they show up stating they are tweets that are deleted. There are no such tweets under Daphne's, and there are zero screenshots and zero evidence of any harassment ever befalling her, most certainly not from the trans community, whom Dave hadn't targeted much at all up until that point.
@@Pumpkin0_0 Furthermore, you do not lie about a group of people bullying someone massively and then state that that someone committed suicide without heavily implying that that group's harassment is responsible. He knew exactly what he was doing.
As someone said on Twitter, it's really sad to see Dave go from a guy who walked away from comedy in order to stop racists from appropriating his punchlines to happily serving up hate-filled slop to that same audience...
If you have love and respect for a friend you might rip on them and make fun of them as long as they are laughing along with you. But when they stop laughing, you know its time to back the fuck off.
When I saw DC at a town hall meeting bitching about the possibility of affordable housing in his neighborhood I knew that man was about money and status and NOT for the people.
It wasn't just that, he wanted to use the same plot for his restaurant and that's why he was complaining about it. He was pissed and confused that they would prioritize low income housing over his "6 million dollar per year business"
As a straight black man, I've always taken to heart until all are free non of us are. Just because I might not be gay or trans or lgbtq it doesn't mean you should just let hate happen because it doesn't affect you. I say this for all hate against women, minorities, disabled, or just hating certain people period. Doing the right thing is the right thing even with all the negativity nowadays towards just being a decent empathetic person period. You don't have to be a Captain or try to force ally ship. Just care, educate yourself, and be there naturally without thinking you're owed anything or acceptance in these groups even when you're truly doing it for the right reasons. Cause more then ever being just a half decent person and saying don't be a sleaze ball will catch you hell. It's so easy making money being a hateful lying bigot it's ridiculous. Lastly on the Dave Chappelle front lots of people nowadays use the oh I'm just just telling the truth or you're being sensitive narrative to try and get out consequences of their words and lies and hate. Stephen Crowder for example using just plain racist bigoted hateful rhetoric and saying he's a comedian and it's just jokes. Those are even just edgy satire or humor. It's just plain using that excuse to just be hateful and sadly the trolling and doubling down instead of learning and being a human and understanding and saying he's wrong and makes mistakes Dave trolls. Clear difference between his commentary and jokes on race etc. Compared to jokes on trans. Doesn't care when it isn't about him. More than anything words have power.
Im a white, disabled and bi dude. The same folks who want any of us out want all of us out. Ill always be an ally to anyone opressed or held under by the system. Theres a lot more of us than them
As a decent human being, if more of your energy goes into trying to shield those marginalized people from bad jokes/words they don't like then taking real world actions such as coming to a pride rally, coming to a drag show or coming to a protest against the violent threats they receive every single day, I have to question how much you actually care about the true well-being of that community.
Except it's not just shielding from bad words and jokes. It's giving people in the real world more ammo for their hate. If this man who is a born leader focused his energy on being empathetic and having the overall joke be the at the expense of transphobes, it might turn a light on for more than a few people. Instead I hear alphabet people come out of the mouths of transphobes and he has helped to normalize their hate and negative responses to trans and lgbqt+ people.
6:54 This needs to be repeated again and again. “Freedom of speech. Not freedom from consequences and criticism.” Too many people don’t understand what that means.
I like to say "Speech is free, talk is cheap, and everything has consequences, positive negative or otherwise." Saying what you want but being unwilling to face the consequences of it isn't "free speech" but "cheap talk" that was likely full of crap in the first place.
11:42 - I think what pisses me off so much with this is that the Disability community is organized. I've been working in the disability community for over a decade. I run my own nonprofit. I even worked in DC Disability community in the early 2010s. He still doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, like a large part of the trans community is also part of the disability community. I was over at my friend's place this past weekend and her boyfriend was watching this, and when he said that, I just had to walk out of the room. Being trans and disabled, it was like "Why you trying to get laughs outta just being a jerk?"
YEAH, in my experience disabled people are very organized in activism, but we tend to go unheard because so many people see us as less than human. in fact, i'd argue that the disabled community is more organized than the trans community
Agreed, he has no idea how well organized and effective disability justice advocates are. His jokes are just sick. And as usual he pretends there’s no intersection. Black folks face so much medical injustice, disproportionate rates & impacts of disability, and yet he has the gall to act like ableism is orthogonal to white supremacy.
I am someone with a rare genetic epilepsy so I can second this. I go to college and that fact alone has had me used as inspiration porn so many times for charities near me; it is so frustrating.
Stop gaslighting everyone that questioning you in any way shape or form is denying your existence. We know you exist. You may be full of it, but you exist.
Every new Dave special seems, to me, like another confession that he doesn't think he's funny anymore, but also doesn't care because he's figured out how to get more doing less, and to hell with anyone who gets hurt in the process. I think Dave from 20 years ago would be embarrassed by the content toDave is putting out
YesterDave would be embarrassed by toDave, for sure. Don't know if you meant to write 'toDave' but I like it and I agree with you. I loved YesterDave and feel sad and disappointed by 'toDave'
I'm just still astounded he tried to use the "but i have a ___ friend" line unironically. Like, really dude? AND it turned out he didn't know her that well.
One of Dave's biggest idols was George Carlin. And Carlin would never and I mean ever have put up with what Dave is doing. Carlin spent 45 years telling people "do not ever punch down". Carlin even said if you remember me for nothing else, remember that advice. Dave has said more than once how much he respected Carlin and idolized him as the first white comic he truly understood. I wonder if things would be different if Carlin were alive to speak with him.
@@csd8204You don’t have to know the guy personally to know that Carlin’s more intricately well-aged comedy is an exact contrast to Chapelle’s “punching down” style of comedy.
@@Kickinthescience So...George Carlin was just making shit up when he contrasted punching up/down? I mean, if your position is "it's extra-funny when just lying and talking shit about marginalized groups, and repeating the same lies that the open supporters of terrorism use to push violence, is presented as the height of humor," that's something, but don't pretend like that's the only option available to you.
This could be wrong, but when FD mentioned how Dave didn’t care enough about trans people to make clever jokes it really reminded me of HBomb’s comments on why people plagiarise. It comes across as a complete dismissal of a while community, like they’re so far beneath him and so powerless to stop him that they’re not worthy of any respect or even humanity. That might be a bit far but it’s how he comes across.
What makes it worse is that the jokes used were straight up product placement. So, remember back in 2016ish when Dave first displayed his transphobia, in that special he said "Netflix has demanded I do 4 jokes on their latest OJ Simpson show" and uses that as a means to attack Jenner. This time he uses Man on the Moon and Netflix's add campaign (Jim Carey was doing Daniel Day-Lewis method acting to never break character) as a means to launch another transphobic set. Like, since his return he keeps accepting product placement add space as a vehicle to be transphobic. It's like, not only is he being lazy in punching down, he's doing so while accepting commercials in his set, and using all that to target marginalized people.
@@Dimefan91 I'm not defending Dave being transphobic but I don't think you know what product placement is. Referencing an actor who did something that most people know about (because it's just a common fact) doesn't have anything to do with that actor doing another thing that just so happened to be with the same company. He never even directly talked about Netflix or anything on Netflix in the special. And the quote you put about the OJ thing is likely intended to be taken more as a joke than a serious thing that he had to do. Plus transitioning from jokes on one subject to jokes in another subject while connecting them is kind of just how comedy acts are structured. Otherwise it'd just be a guy standing there reading a list of jokes.
The way some of his fans say he "disagrees with their lifestyle" is so weird. A lifestyle isn't an opinion or a value, it's not something you agree with it's something you adopt for yourself or don't. How entitled does someone have to be to think they have a say on someone else's way to live their life? It's like saying he disagrees with what time I go to bed and wake up. Don't try to make it cute, just accept that he's being an *sshole.
They don't know anything about LGBT people's "lifestyle". No one has an answer when you ask what "lifestyle" they are referring to. I guess some people assume that LGBT people are highly promiscuous and party all the time, and that might be true of some, but how is that any different than the "lifestyle" of young frat bros or any given spring breaker. Straight men with such a "lifestyle"are generally considered cool. I used to have a transmale roommate. He worked at a grocery while working on a degree with social work. He liked football. He liked to cook. He had a parrot. He liked board games. He had a lot of dvds. He kept his apartment very clean. He had a steady girlfriend, he very occasionally went to a bar. He liked Nickelback. What part of that "lifestyle" would Dave take fault with? The Nickelback?
@@brokencandy1797 About the only "lifestyle" I've found that's common to trans people in general is liking Queen and Freddie Mercury more than the average, usually with a side of being jealous of Mr. Mercury's vocal range. So I guess Dave takes fault with Queen and has trash music tastes? (also mandatory meming on Nickelback asides Nickelback's good)
Same, I really dont understand how taking a medication, going by a different name, and shitting in another bathroom is such an insane lifestyle change to some people
@@neoqwerty I mean...there is something inherently funny to me as a trans woman, in singing along to "I want to break free" We're just women (who keep getting called men in dresses) singing along to a bunch of men in dresses.
It’s infuriating that his response has not been to go away and educate himself. He’s a smart guy. If he’d done any reading or listening at all, he’d understand.
and im very sure there are many trans people that have no problem sitting down with him and having a good conversation, but he doesn't wanna do that because it doesnt make him money. But maybe thats the issue, why is he still getting paid?
I remember that first special when Dave talked about trans people, he opened the segment by explaining "Trans people have beef with me, and for some reason won't let it go." He then went on to tell a few tired jokes about trans people we've all heard a dozen times, never addressing why trans people were upset with him, and never making even the weakest attempt at an apology. When he moved into his next bit I remember thinking, "Well how is the trans community supposed to forgive you if you never apologize and continue making shitty jokes?" And in every single special since then, he's done the exact same thing. Chapelle has had ample opportunity to make this issue go away. Genuinely, if he didn't bring up trans folks in every single special he's done since he returned to standup, NO ONE would care about the jokes he made in his early career. HE'S the one who perpetuates the contraversy, HE'S the person who could end it forever by simply not not bringing it up, but he insists on continuing his fight for gold in the Opression Olympics.
@@LinnellBinn to put it very very shortly, Dave's telling the trans equivalent of watermellon and fried chicken jokes. If a white guy spent ten minutes of every special making jokes about how black people love watermelon, Netflix wouldn't pay him $50mil to do more.
@@apollofell3925 I could be misremembering, but my impression from the most recent joke was him articulating his own feelings about interacting with trans people. I wonder how the harm is measured because many people on the 'other side' claim harm as well.
The kind of people who think you can't critique your idols are the kind of people who think you can't love your kid while they're in prison, or you can't love your country without being blind about it. It's so immature.
"Loving your country" is just kind of dumb. Come on. Big difference between your kid, and a false construction made up by very powerful people who do not care about you.
You can critique whoever you like. Just don't be upset when people point out that you sound soft because they're making fun of a group you're a part of or an ally to.
The line about not knowing or caring enough about the target of the joke to come up with something really insightful really hits the nail on the head. They aren't interested in the human side of the joke or in saying something new and clever and that really applies to all punch down comedians. They are going for the easy laugh from their target audience.
The thing about Chappelle and other comedians who go this route is that it probably isn't even about trans folks. It's about their own goddamn ego. I could honestly believe that Dave doesn't actually give a shit about trans people either way, but his status as the person up front with the microphone got challenged. What it seems like is that a lot of these comedians can only deal with criticism like they deal with heckling. What's important to them is to control the crowd and control the narrative, even if that means furthering harm.
I think he gives a shit but he doesn't want to care enough to stop doing jokes..he's basically saying yall can't take a joke..which may be true but he himself said he would stop making trans jokes, seems like he can't help himself..
I am trans. Being trans is sometimes hella funny, like there is a lot about the trans experience that is surreal and absurd. I laugh at myself all the time and I know a lot of trans people who find a lot of humor in life as a trans person. The problem with Dave’s trans jokes is that there’s nothing particularly new or funny about them. It’s the same tired crap everyone has heard a million times. His comedy about trans people boils down to trans people being icky and deceptive, which I guess hits with a transphobic audience but for anyone else it’s just shitty and tired. If he wasn’t just another transphobe he would be fully capable of crafting excellent jokes on the topic of trans people or the trans experience.
This!! ❤ Explained it exactly like this to my husband recently. Everyone can laugh at themselves as long as they are not being disparaged. Dave has a bigoted grudge against trans people and is digging his heels into his position plain and simple. He’s not laughing with them he’s laughing at them aka attacking them.
I love being trans because I can find a lot of humor out of things that cis people normally don't have to deal with. As you said, it's absurd and surreal but I enjoy humor and wouldn't change anything. When my friend who didn't know better asked why wasn't he allowed to make jokes about trans people if I do it all the time I responded that there is a difference between a joke and an insult that you are passing off as a joke. There's being a comedian and then there's being an asshole. There's nothing stopping cis people from telling trans jokes as long as they are jokes and not transphobia with the wrapping of a "joke". My girlfriend is cis and she tells trans jokes all the time because she knows secondhand the trans experience. Her favorite that I find funny is "What does a trans lesbian bring on the second date? Not a UHaul because they're too broke." That's hilarious because I've been there. So often she has had to pay for things because transitioning is expensive (especially when trying to buy plus-sized women's clothes) and I'm usually just scraping by the skin of my teeth financially.
I've found that the difference between funny and not funny, even if it's the same joke, is whether the teller of the joke has respect for the "brunt" of the joke. That's how me and my other black friends can tell a joke amongst ourselves that's hilarious, that even may be slightly problematic because we have a certain amount of respect and love for each other. Same with my gay friends, and I'm sure it's the same within the Trans community. Adding to the respect is the fact that a joke told between equals is a lot different than "punching down" Also, to address the "punching down" theory, punching down is made even worse when the butt of the joke is an absolute equal but is considered "less than" by the teller because of a form of bigotry. It's even worse because it's an attempt to puch down at an actual equal. I'm assuming that life for you definitely isn't a straightforward romp through the roses, but I would like to say that I'm optimistic about part of my generation (43yo) and those following that we more and more aren't tolerating bigoted behavior whether it be homophobic, transphobic, racist or sexist. I hope you're as optimistic as I am as we sit back and watch the majority of these bigots die off ,lol. I readily admit that I probably not seeing the whole picture, and am always open to learning more, or even where im wrong, but I'm hoping that the growing intolerance of intolerance that I see around me is a signal of more to come. May there be a day where you can live your life with at least as much ease as a cis het white American male.
lol but wait wait, he had a trans friend, so he’s exempt. listening to someone say that who you know would give someone a (deserved) verbal beatdown for saying the same thing about a race of people and not understand the irony is soooooo fucking infuriatingly funny
Thank you for this. My wife is transgender. There is a way to talk about trans people in a truly meaningful and funny way, but what Dave and other comedians take the lazy way out by relying on stereotypes and xenophobic rhetoric, rather than writing something interesting.
Imagine a comedian punching down on Black people during the civil rights marches, when they were being attacked by the State. Not very funny given the historical context right?
So many of these jokes just add up to: "Those transgenders are weird, they make me uncomfortable, and they need to know their place!" Draping that argument in the aesthetics of comedy does not make it funny or any less authoritarian.
@@dominicparker6124i always thought Dave was that way. he provides social commentary that is more funny to listen to than anyone else’s, not particularly “comedy” so i never saw why people called him a comedian.
What about a person like me? Yes transgenders do make me feel weird, it's unnatural and I'm not comfortable playing pretend. All of that being said, i don't want any trans person to be targeted for hatred or violence. I want them to have happy fulfilling lives but my brain can't be forced into thinking it's normal.
@@DonMega888 calling a male a female will never be normal and it is biologically impossible. Feel free to identify as whatever you want as that is subjective but sex isn’t
It didn't resonate with me that much at the time, but now I keep coming back to ContraPoints' 2019 video "The Darkness", where she unpacks how non-trans folks don't really know what they're talking about because they don't have the lived experience to know what's truly funny about trans-ness, which is the darkness of their reality.
Contrapoints was key in helping me get a more full understanding of Trans people and the unfair damage others are bringing on them. Be kind and open hearted ❤
And Contra doesn't know what it's like to be other people either. They want a gold sticker for narcissism just because they belong to the right demographic?
This phenomena is just now starting to be addressed within the experiences of black Americans attempting to be understood by white folks. Its unsurprising that it exists within the misunderstanding of other disenfranchised minority groups also. Sad but unsurprising. I can say progress is being made. Once accepted as a fact in the realm of experiences of race it will most likely be applied more broadly.
Okay but contrapoints is EXTREMELY problematic. She got rich enough and lucky enough to pass and started making a profit mocking every trans woman who doesn't, suggesting they don't have the same right to exist in public as she does etc@@ThickRedPaste
THANK YOU for pointing out how he tried to put a wedge between trans issues and black issues, like they're completely separate. Not just because, yes, there are black trans people, but also because the tools of oppression and the oppressors wielding those tools for both groups are 99% THE SAME EDIT: to "clarify" (I know, I'm digging deeper, I'm sorry), I did not mean to imply that the experience of black oppression and trans oppression are the same from the perspective of the marginalized. They are both worse than what anyone deserves to be put through, and beyond that I'm not looking to waste time on oppression olympics. What I was trying to say is that dismantling the systems of black oppression ONLY serve to benefit trans people (and vice versa, to some extent). Or to put it in the negative way: queer people letting racism get comfy in your house means transphobia is going to try and get in there too. Similarly, calling out Chapelle on his shit also helps keep online communities clean for everyone. Alright go back to roasting me in the comments
@@AM-bm9rsfor black trans people? Also, I’m old enough to remember how the language used to portray trans people as inherently disingenuous degenerate sexual predators was deployed against black people in the past
Oh my god at 6:00 this resonated with me so hard. So often people will have bigoted views, but they know they can’t defend them, so instead of arguing the merits of their views (which they know they can’t do), they’ll instead argue that “well it’s my right to have different views” God it’s so frustrating, thank you for putting it so succinctly. Feels so validating to have that type of response called out. I feel like this exact template of argument happens like 100x per day on twitter. Someone will say something bad, people will say “what this person said is bad” and all the reactionaries will come out and say “you would dare silence someone for having an opinion?? i will fight for their rights!!”
Right and they get angry when ppl call them a bigot Ive seen some anti pc youtube commentary channels point out how blue haired ppl keep calling them bigots and screaming "HE'S A BIGOT!!" like thats how ppl actually talk its funny how it gets under their skin.
I think the hardest part is the cognitive dissonance they’ll have where “transphobic” is ok but “racist” isn’t and you just gotta sit there like the math ain’t mathing here
I think the unfortunate thing about this is how openly cynical it is. The fact that Dave understands how fucked up these laws are means he at least views us as people, just not people who are going to spend money on his show. I think it comes from this deep misunderstanding that my generation hates ALL forms of laughter unless its kindergarten knock knock jokes. I find the LGBTQ+ community has this "idea" thrown on them a lot too. If Dave not only took the time to understand trans people, but what people in my generation DO find funny (which isn't too different from his), he wouldn't seem like an unthawed relic from 1996.
this !! it’s so incredibly cheap to just tell half-assed bigotry and insults because it will make a lot of money from right wing viewers, no matter if the jokes are actually clever or funny. there are so many comedians that tell jokes about the lgbtq community (despite not being in it what a shocker) that are genuinely funny because they’ve been thought out and do not rely on just insulting a marginalised community
Omg YES, its like the dark comedy allowed is bigotry. Instead of a clever joke that might be offensive, just call someone a liar for being Trans, so funny /s
My friends and I have plenty of jokes about me being trans (“I knew you were a vet, but what do you mean you weren’t in the navy?” Or my favorite “I’m not like the other girls”). These jokes come from a place of love and an understanding that transitioning is full of oddities worth laughing at. Jokes being reduced to “ew a trans tried to pretend gender at me” is not just an insult to trans people, it’s an insult to comedy as an art.
@@clarkharrell2227 there’s just an old joke that everyone in the navy is queer. The person I was talking to was made that joke when I mentioned having been in a different branch. It’s not like “a good joke” since it’s just an old stereotype. But it was made by someone who very much wanted me to know they accepted me and an old gay joke was how they showed it.
My favorite trans joke is where we share news stories of people getting their genitals mangled in machinery or attacked by animals and saying, "Hey look, new bottom surgery just dropped!"
it's always the same issue at the end of the day. ppl want to front as if the criticism is "these groups can NEVER be joked about" when the issue is that the "jokes" aren't all that funny if you have even half of an idea about the group the joke's about. Chappelle's old material would bring up black stereotypes all of the time, but he'd either point out the absurdity with them OR tell stories from his own life that were somehow hyper specific and highly relatable to a lot of the black American experience to poke fun at the kernel of truth embedded in the stereotype. And that's what made them so funny (apart from his delivery). Even when the butt of the joke ended up being black people/culture, it was still coming from a place of empathy and understanding, the same way you'd rash on your family or friends. Jokes from bigots about the thing they're bigoted against will always lack the empathy and knowledge to rise above just regurgitating hateful stereotypes
Jokes, like reflexive criticism, do not have to informed. And jokes, as your criticism implies, is subjective, just like the topics of criticism. Dave doesn't waste time attempting to persuade critics the humor of his jokes: you find it funny, or you don't, but don't speak for others because plenty find his jokes hilarious and relevant.
@@pendejo6466 i never said others don't find dave's jokes funny. I am pretty explicitly saying his trans jokes are probably hilarious to those with a very shallow understanding of trans folks because the jokes themselves are just him repackaging shallow stereotypes of trans people, i.e. "the 'jokes' aren't all that funny if you have even half of an idea about the group the joke's about." The same way I know minstrel performers doing caricatures of black ppl were (and still are) a HUGE hit amongst folks who have a shallow understanding of and overall lack of empathy towards black folk. Comedy in ignorance will have its fans, but if you're aware of your own ignorance on the topic/group, don't be pissy or mad when those who aren't so ignorant point out the limitations of said comedy
@@realtalk13 Dave just has to understand the topic enough to make fun of it. Jokes, like criticisms, often contain exaggeration and distortions. You're not a better person because you don't laugh at certain jokes.
@@austinh7110so you acknowledge Dave is not funny anymore, and his whole shtick is that he’s offending people so that they give him “funny” reactions when their offended? And that you find it funny? That’s pretty openly vicious and bigoted and also a huge insult to Dave, but hey mask off
Honestly to me, the barometer for if a joke is problematic or not is whether it indicates any desire by the person telling it to know and understand the community they're joking about. Case in point, the problem with Chappelle's trans jokes is not just that they're edgy or offensive, it's that they're offensive in a way that indicates he doesn't even want learn more about what he's talking about. It shows contempt and lack of respect for that community. It reminds me of how Taika Waititi, when playing Hitler in Jojo Rabbit, said he didn't even care to learn about how he talked or how he acted, because that would be giving him too much respect.
I wonder. You just speaking to yourself? So, what? Trans people are the "not sees" in Dave's eyes? Maybe he's right. Maybe they are misguided. Should "not sees" be respected for their ideals? The fact that he's talking about it at all means that he wants to understand them at some fundamental level. He's just worried that they aren't doing things the right way. Like, the " not sees" wanted a better society. Woo hoo. It's all the other stuff that kinda ruins the whole party. Sheeit, those trans folk wouldn't be the only misguided people out there.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bz He is not right. If I called you dumber than a brick does that mean I want to understand you? No, it means I don't like you and wanted to call you dumber than a brick. Want to take a guess as to who burned the books of the world's first trans clinic? The fact that you act like some of the worst fascists in history were merely misguided while doing the accusation in a mirror of equating them to a minority group they put in death camps is reprehensible.
Exactly, trying to make it either "jokes are jokes" or "don't joke about x" like in most discussions is missing the point. It's not about making jokes about people, it's about laughing at them with no given opportunity to laugh with them. When the butt of the joke can't relate to it, they are isolated and can't really empathize with the joke or the audience laughing at it. Just think about male jokes by male comedians and compare them to jokes about other groups by the same comedians. "Men can vouch for this" and "women am I right?" Are two entirely different forms of comedy that affect how the "butt" will relate to it.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzThe fact you’re comparing trans people to Nazis says a lot. Saying Nazis were a “good intentioned but misguided” party is a gross understatement of their beliefs, especially when their idea of a “better world” was one without Jews, people of color, disabled people, lgbtq+ people, anyone else that didn’t meet their ideal from the Aryan race myth. Nazism was rotten to the core of its philosophy and ideals. Again, Nazis literally killed lgbtq+ people in concentration camps. Perhaps people proposing and supporting anti-lgbtq+ legislation should really start questioning where this road of hate ends. I’ve seen some people even arguing that homosexuality should be illegal in the US again. Then, there’s all the hate crimes against lgbtq+ people perpetrated by bigots who obviously thought that queer people deserve to die. But perhaps bigots are just “misguided but just want a better world” too? And your comment just shows that you know nothing about the trans community or the trans experience, if you think Dave is right about them. Meanwhile, everyone who *does* have a clue about the trans community is out here saying he’s wrong. And you’re wrong too.
It's funny that people would get angry at you for having an opinion about Dave, but defend his right to punch down at trans people. Make it make sense.
Who's angry? Criticizing bad takes is not that same as getting angry. You either have free game to make fun of everyone in society or you end up with protected classes that get special treatment. I don't want to live in a world with protected classes and neither does any half decent comedian pushing the envelope of what you can make fun of. If anything, I see way more outrage videos on the Trans side calling anyone who thinks his jokes are funny bigots. That's a soft mentality. It's all funny until your group is up for being made fun of.
I really appreciate you making this video. I'm a trans woman, and I'm a mental health practitioner for other trans people. When folks like Dave do this, it has a serious ripple effect through our community. I had multiple people in my personal and professional life who became more suicidal after Dave's last round of specials due to the amount of online hatred they received. I even had to suffer through it myself and combating suicidality is literally my specialty. I really appreciate you taking the time to stand up for us and shine a light on the harm that's done by "jokes" like Dave's. Your continued support of our community is why I'm here.
@@bantuboi3131do you ? Also I've seen him make Fun of Gay Boxing and Gay KluKluksKlan and I found a problem with that too, do you? cause is that not an awful stereotype aswell?
My problem with Chapelle is that THE WHOLE REASON he walked away from his show was because he felt like he was being used and made fun of AS A MINORITY. He felt the people around him were used to PUNCH DOWN at black people. He came off as someone who had integrity because he valued himself and his position as an influential black person more than a massive paycheck. For him to continuously attack OTHER MINORITIES demonstrates how selfish and myopic he has become. The joke about his attacker wielding a “knife that identified as gun” was funny because it makes sense, BUT it would’ve been a LOT funnier if he hadn’t been making fun of trans people the whole time prior to that joke.
Question: how is the lgbtq community as a gender minority suppsed to be held with the same weight as a racial minority? Im not asking this contentiously. Just trying to understand the thought process?
If those bigoted towards the marginalized group(s) your joke targets, are the ones most likely to laugh rather than those of the marginalized group, your joke is the problem... not those telling you the joke is a problem. That moment when people cheered about the bathroom bill, it should have opened Dave's eyes a bit. Clearly it didn't. *Great video as always FD. Really enjoy your balanced takes on a variety of topics and issues.*
@@BasedGoddie You mean when he literally made fun of racism and or racists? If that offended you, and or you felt targeted there, well you may want to keep that to yourself.
@@BasedGoddie You do know that the white fans of Chapelle laugh at his jokes right? And that most white people who aren't racist also laugh at jokes about racism and racists? Because we all are affected by racism one way or another, white people who aren't racist can laugh at a joke about racists because "lol dumb racists" or "look how i used to be, how silly! glad i'm not like that now but how true it used to be!" or even "wow i didn't even know that was racist but it's so obvious now and it's funny because i didn't realize before" etc etc. And finally, white people aren't marginalized due to their whiteness??? so making a joke about whiteness doesn't punch down/negatively affect your audience's understanding of an already misunderstood minority? like bffr bro
I couldnt pinpoint exactly why I was uneasy watching the special. I think it's because not only Dave come back on what he said in the closer in the first few minutes, but also because he's showing he isn't willing to educate himself. As someone who had him as a model for a great lenght of time, this is really heartbreaking
Bro what ? I watched the special, I laughed during the special, I just said I was uneasy because Dave isn't acting like an adult and owning his mistakes
@@TommyLikeTomdefinition of bigotry obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group. So…what particular group is Dave a part of, dude? Also, it’s just not funny. It’s very very hard to be funny when something is so predictable and you e heard it a million times. I don’t find fart jokes funny anymore and it’s not because they are offensive. It’s because they are dull and played and lazy
my biggest issue with Chappelle now is that his specials are less about making comedy and more just angry and mean-spirited reactions to him being criticized about angry and mean-spirited jokes he's made. He's really one of the smartest, funniest, and insightful comedians of all time and he's just reduced himself to being an angry guy who keeps doubling down.
Exactly. It feels like all Chappelle's latest specials are just him reacting to valid criticism of his mean-spirited jokes and his constant punching down. It sucks because he's truly a talented comedian and seeing him keep going down this path is a real shame.
@@TheDreamingJune it's like he chose a hill to die on and that's just where he's camped out now. I don't even know what he's trying to prove at this point
What his new special has shown me is that he’s really just too sensitive even though he pretends to be above it all. He’s butthurt (no pun intended) that people would dare to criticize his comedy. He’s often dismissed critics of his content as being out of touch with true artistry or whatever pretentious shit he says to belittle peoples opinions. But he himself is soooo sensitive that he’s actually made his new artistic identity entirely around bullying anyone who disagrees with him smh
@@afrosamourai400 it’s not surprising, it’s just weak to let it affect you to the point that you actually change your art to revolve around the criticism instead of just continuing to create your art. Now your art is no longer your pure expression but a defensive reaction to the audience? That’s corny
I was born in LA but moved to a small, predominantly white town in a different state when I was in elementary school. When I was a Junior in high school I was at the library, and on a whim, decided to check out Baldwin's "The Fire Next Time". And beyond just being a great collection of essays, that was the first book to make me really understand just how powerful art could be. Baldwin managed to put a name to so many thoughts and experiences that, until then, I didn't have a way to describe or reason about. I became hooked and went on to devour Ellison, Haley, Fanon, and others. Now this was back in the early days of the internet, when AOL and Netscape were still big players. What I knew about was limited to what I learned in school or heard on tv and neither of them were about to recommend "The Wretched of the Earth". And today I was sitting here, many years later, listening to your video in the background while I work and it ocurred to me just how lucky (in this respect, at least) young people are now to have easy access to voices like yours, and through you, so many others. So thanks for doing what you do man, and I hope you keep doing it. P.S. I don't know if you take requests for videos, but if you do I'd love to hear your thoughts on James Baldwin
Thank you for mentioned the "I'm not gonna make trans jokes anymore" lie; great video. I really wish Dave Chapelle could stop thinking about us so much and just go back to making funny, insightful comedy.
Honestly I'm so tired of groups or just individuals having to accept being the butt of jokes no matter what or they're labeled as too sensitive. As somebody black who grew up around a lot of white people, I had to deal with a lot of racism disguised as jokes. And any time I expressed that those jokes weren't funny or made me uncomfortable, I was told I'm too sensitive. At the end of the day, we're not required to find your jokes funny. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to just acknowledge that they're not entitled to make fun of other people for traits they can't control. And they're definitely not entitled to controlling how those people respond to their "jokes".
I'd just like to say that i love your content, it comforts me deeply, even though the contents of them are the negativity felt from bigotry it gives me hope, in australia black people aren't recognised and nearly no one knows of our existence, and if they do it's a trivial piece of recognition of "The ones the british colonised and enslaved". watching your content and seeing similar issues in the US as with Australia gives me hope that someday i could spread awareness like you do.
@@DrixPunk Every time someone appologises for their poor English because it's not their first language, I find it's far better than that of many Americans who *only* speak English who I encounter online! You are no exception.
Just do it. Write it all out first, so as to organise your thoughts, and then discuss it with people whose opinions you respect, even though you might not always agree. Why? Because people will disagree with you. And you have to test your arguments by stress testing them. And in stress testing them you will confront the strengths and the weaknesses in your perspective and know what counter-arguments you'll get, and work out your reply. Then if you feel upto it, then make videos about it. You don't have to put them up. Practice and see if that works for you. If it does, then you can consider TH-cam. It's hard work, and it can be a tough hamster wheel.
This guy FD is getting tiresome. What is the endgame for this man? Raise generations to pass on to the generation that follows a never ending sense that they are oppressed and that no matter how much society changes for the better they should always feel that things are getting worse? What a way to live. This is truly his profession. But this sort of cross generational pessemism has real consequences in terms of how people view their life experiences.
Chapelle and JK Rowling have a lot in common. Talented creators who are very opinionated about their own group identity (black or women respectively), cannot stand being told they are wrong so they make it their entire public persona
But how are they wrong for their group? For an outside party that wants the benefits of their group, it is not the same thing. What you keep demanding is that you can pretend to be my family and demand entry into my house. We are not family, and even if we were, they couldn't even make those demands.
@@jaccl4539 I mean that they conflate their dislike of trans politics as being justified by their own marginalized group status. But really my main complaint is that Chapelle's trans jokes just arent very good. 'Jim Carrey is an actor also Trans people make me uncomfortable' yeah great 'Lgbtxyzabc' wow really groundbreaking stuff Dave
Yes, but the problem lies in making the same mistake you accuse others of-disliking how another group makes a claim about your own group. Again, it doesn't make them wrong for their group. You not liking the joke or liking it doesn't change that. Today, I don't like a joke, which doesn't mean it's wrong or wrong for the group. You don't enjoy it and disagree with the consequences, and that's fine. What does that have to do with them or their group? I just find it odd because you make the same claim, which you find is in error. @@octosalias5785
@@octosalias5785 You not liking Dave's trans jokes is subjective though. No one really cares that your sense of humor is too sophisticated for Dave Chappelle and his delivery. Let people laugh at what they want to laugh at. Pluck your feelings.
That British who wrote for friends, and some other hit tv shows. He got into the transphobia brain rot. His wife divorced him, his kids don’t like him, nobody wants to work with him, a company even offered him $500,000 for work as long as he just shut up in the process of it being live on Broadway and while they’re working on it. He wouldn’t even have to work. He couldn’t do it and now he’s saying he’s poor and in debt. 💀
@@Weeniehutnurseyou're talking about Graham Linehan, one of the best comedy writers of the last 40 years. He wrote Father Ted and The IT Crowd and has contributed to many other classic comedy workings. He had nothing to do with Friends. Also, he's Irish. Not British. Also he was unfairly dog piled for having the opinion that maybe there's a bigger, more nuanced discussion to be had around gender politics and the whole trans argument, rather than being labeled a bigot the second you try and ask a question about it. Thankfully he's beginning to find work again as people have started to realise that maybe he had a point.
@@DuggyDarkoNo, he wished harm on trans people and compared them to Nazis. He wasn’t simply “asking questions”. If he was, he would’ve seen the good-faith answers and understood how he was wrong. Instead, he’s addicted to being a victim. He’s turned it into a career, parading around as a target of cancel culture while ignoring the violent, transphobic things he’s said and the dangerous people he’s promoted over the years. Also his comedy sucks. His shows are the UK equivalent of Chuck Lorre. At least Chappelle has talent, making it more frustrating he’s gone down the same path.
It’s like that one episode of SpongeBob where he keeps making “squirrels are dumb” jokes. Even though it hurts sandy, his squirrel friend, he’s getting laughs from people who don’t find his other jokes funny which he values more. Idk why Dave just doesn’t make fun of himself for not being educated.
Your logic is flawed. He makes jokes about white people that blacks find entertaining. About rich people that poor people find entertaining. About poor people that rich people find entertaining. About Latino people that Asians find entertaining. About Asians that white people find entertaining. And about LGBTQ, which the dominant society finds entertaining. They all can be considered offensive, but none of them stem from or can be considered not educated. You finally taking your turn and being offended doesn't change that. You finally not finding it funny doesn't mean it isn't. Being sensitive now doesn't mean someone is not sensitive about everything you laughed at before.
@@jaccl4539 huh so i guess no one has any busness being offended about anything if they weren't offended about everything? also: if you are educated about trans issues, you can make actually funny jokes both trans and non trans people will laugh at. see jurden's 'i dont make fun of non-binary people because i dont want barista's to spit in my coffee' joke.
@@eduardosantana8300They trust him with topics about trans issues and culture, no need to overcomplicate. And no language police (aka uhhhh its not phobia because we arent scared of you trans "people"🤓) please.
@@eduardosantana8300 trans isnt genderfluid or all those other things, trans is transitioning from male to female or the other way around, so theres really not that much to misunderstand. And phobia can come out of hatred and bigotry too, fear is not the only way of phobia.
A simple, non-offensive trans joke/story about myself I like to tell: When I was in middle school it came time for me to pick out what deodorant I wanted. I was going through them all, smelling them, and eventually chose an Old Spice one. When I put it in the cart, my mother grimaced and said, "eugh, do you want to smell like Grandpa Mike, or what?" I went "oh god, no," and quickly put it back. When I switched to a floral scent, she didn't throw a fuss. For years, it completely flew over my head that it was about the ~gender~ of the scent; I just thought we were bonding over how much we fuckin hated Grandpa Mike
What are you talking about? There are plenty of sketches that hold up as well as they did when they first aired. Chappelle's Show didn't all of a sudden stop being good because it's the current year.
I haven't watched his special. I have, however, watched most of my friends and family pretty much shrug their shoulders at transphobia and transphobic bills. My wife basically gets on me about being upitty if I spend too much time talking publicly about the issue on social media (of course that is pretty much the extent of my activism, which is not good...I know). But, the complete lack of "give-a-bleep" is discouraging for me (chet wm). I cannot begin to imagine the effect on the trans community.
As a white trans person, I found your video on Dave Chapelle both incredibly affirming and supportive but also really informative on the intersectionality of black trans issues and how Chapelle excludes black queer people
Bill burr’s black people jokes are solid because of how he sets up the jokes. He tells anecdotes about spending time with black people that are relatable and honest. When tells a story to the effect of, “I was hanging out with these black dudes, and they were clowning my wardrobe”, that sounds and feels like a real experience. Then it leads perfectly into the punchline of the joke “Black dudes with dirty sneakers scare the fuck out me” which is hilarious from the perspective of a white guy. If he just dropped that line with no context it would feel racist, but since he paints a picture of being immersed in black fashion culture, it makes the subversion and rejection of that culture the thing that scares him instead of the blackness of the dude himself. Dave…. Doesn’t do that..
Just wanna say it's super refreshing to see cis creators talk about trans issues. You're correct that most cis people learn about trans people from other cis people, so taking the time to discuss them honestly does a lot of good. In your original video you explained that trans issues are part of black issues, and urged your audience to care about trans issues because trans folks deserve to be free of transphobia the same way black folks deserve to be free of racism. And it made me realize I probably don't care about racism and black perspectives as much as I care about transphobia and LGBTQ issues because racism doesn't affect me like transphobia does. I want to rectify that negligence and I'm going make an effort this year to start learning about black issues and racial injustice. Thanks for giving me the spark.
Hey good on you for realizing that - and especially for reacting by being like "...and I'm gonna do something about it" vs. burying your head in the proverbial sand.
@@moxiebombshell Thanks! But don't give me too much credit, you missed the last four years of me burying my head in the sand and the six years before them that I was anti-BLM. 😅 It's just a new chapter in a long journey.
@@apollofell3925 but thank fuck it sounds like it's in the right direction 😅 My past was more insidiously fucked up, in that I liked to fancy myself "one of the good ones" but in reality was blind to my own low-key racist and transphobic BS. After George Floyd, I was on Twitter and started following a bunch of really powerful Black women and queer and trans folks, and practiced keeping my mouth shut and just listening... I still have some embarrassing AF thing I said 10 years ago pop into my head and make me cringe so hard I just about turn inside out, but at least I'm not making too many new ones these days.
@@moxiebombshell yeah I was indoctrinated into christian nationalism as a kid, it's a long road. We should both be proud of the progress we've made, but not so proud we get complacent about what still needs to be done.
White middle class trans guy here. Before I came out at 45, I considered myself a progressive, anti-racist, all that stuff. But it was all very theoretical. Then I started to experience transphobia ranging from snide comments to slurs and attempted attacks. And boy did it open my eyes. I'm not going to say that I understand what it is to live in our society as a person of colour, but I can now see through an open door versus peaking through a keyhole. And I too am trying to do better, get more involved and listen more closely. All marginalized people share many of the same battles and we can only succeed together!
Completely agree with everything you said. And as a former Dave stan, at this point, I'm more disappointed in hardcore Dave fans (not just the new MAGA crowd he's courting) for not being able to see through this and be objective about his work.
I swear, what's going on with Dave is a few steps away from becoming Kanye. This dude has bought into his own ego and self importance so much that it's reaching astronomical levels.
Both objectively and subjectively my end pov is antithetical to yours/this video. with the same info, I reach the opposite conclusion. I think that's okay; we need balance to get anywhere in this world.
If people are angered by the stuff enough to rage in comments yet continue to come back each video (thus making ya ad revenue)…. Does that make you an accidental fin dom? And they must have a masochist streak to keep coming back… But jokes aside, doesn’t it make the most sense to examine and question the very media/figures we enjoy (or have in past/occasionally enjoyed)? Criticism of something ya already dislike doesn’t challenge oneself or really provide growth/ changes in perspective. If I had to list the problematic figures/creative works I’ve enjoyed (or even sometimes still do) I would be here all day leaving a novel length list. But when I do engage with that sort of stuff it’s with a nuanced awareness born of hindsight (ie Chapelle Show still makes me giggle but I can’t shake the awareness my simply existing as a trans person is apparently a joke to him) or a larger awareness of the world and its vast potential lived experiences….
This is just another form of censorship. You can disagree with someone and also not give a fuck about their income. Unless it's outright dangerous, I'll watch and engage with whatever I like, regardless of capitalism.
@@signifiedbsides1129 you mean like constantly complaining about Dave’s jokes then continuing to watch only to be upset all over by the same kind of jokes
One of the most interesting things about Chapelle's comedy is that he started off going after the white person with one black friend thing. From Closer special he is now the cis dude with one trans friend.
Holy Christ, the point about how people would have gone crazy if a comedian was joking about black people the way Chapelle did about trans people was the first thing I thought. He’s not bigoted; he has a trans friend.
You might be one of the smartest people on YT... as a 53 year old white male, I appreciate the education you continue to provide to people about our deeply engrained racial issues in this complicated country
I love Fiq, he's great. He has a real knack for digging into challenging or complex topics of all sorts and making them accessible and also a lot more comfortable to be present for and engage with. What's telling for me is that I'm literally almost the complete opposite of the audience he's said he's kind of aiming for (he mostly talks to younger (usually straight/not queer) black guys, and I'm a white AFAB nonbinary person. I am *not* who he's usually talking to, but I still love to listen because of how much I learn (not having to worry about surprise bigotry popping up in his videos is also a nice perk)
Chapelle literally said he agrees with JK Rowling in the first show. The transphobic jokes could’ve just been in poor taste if we at least knew he was well meaning but he made an actual stance. Convenient how people say it’s just jokes but when he wasn’t joking, they don’t talk about it.
10:43 so he really is mentoring Matt Rife. Rife has that same exact handicap joke except he shapes it differently. Saying handicap people have it worse than trans people because at least they can get up and walk out the room.
I remember hearing Chris Rock say he had to retire his joke "there's 2 types of black people. There's black people and there's ......" He said he stopped doing that joke because he found that bigots were using the baseline of that joke to "justify" their racism. Like "I like black people, just not ....." And that I feel is the issue. When your art leaves you, it's no longer yours, it's associated with you forever, but it's taken, clipped, translated, and used by everyone in various different ways. So, a famous comedian making jokes at the expense of already marginalized groups with a thick layer of ignorance on top of it. It gives actual bigots more ammo to continue their assult on people they don't like, now with the shield of "it's just a joke so en so said" wink. The jokes are basically giving them confirmation bias. This, in the long run, will actually hurt Dave more than anyone else, as he will slowly start to be associated with those groups, and those groups will begin to make up his fan base. Which I'm sure he doesn't want. That said, nobody should be "protected" or "off limits" from jokes and comedy. But like was said, the jokes need to have layers and knowledge of the topic at hand. Otherwise it's just feeding ignorance to the maliciously ignorant.
"he will slowly start to be associated with those groups, and those groups will begin to make up his fan base. Which I'm sure he doesn't want. " Apparently he does if they pay him well
@seakermac5800 What it was meant to be sometimes gets lost with what it becomes. Take Pepe the frog. A character in a web comic that became the symbol of bigoted trolls. The original artist tried everything to get people to stop using his innocent creation as an avatar for Nazism, racism, etc. Before personally dropping the character so as not to be associated with what it became.
okay i’ve been sitting on this for years, but i lived in yellow springs for a while and my mom tended bar at dave’s favorite spot in town, that he would stay late at all the time, and they talked a lot for the short time we lived there. i came out as trans that same year and uh, i KNOW she talked to him about it. i Know this. i don’t have anything else to add it’s just weird to know that when dave chapelle pictures his weird fake image of an all-white trans community in his head, i am in the chorus
Remember when Dave gave up his Comedy Central fortune to go self reflect in Africa because he didn't like who was laughing at his jokes or how they were doing it? We live in the timeline where he decided to go with money and power. Maybe this was always the canon outcome.
Even that was just rich person nonsense. It's something I thought was dumb back then but couldn't bring up as easily since Dave was so beloved. It's not impressive to take a vacation and leave a show when it doesn't have any impact on your wealth or status. He never risked anything. He wasn't wrong to do so but it wasn't laudable to do so either.
He never gave up a fortune, dude has never not been rich since he got there. Would he have poo poo'd Comedy Central if he was at risk of working at a Burger King? Nah, I don't think so.
@@BasedGoddie cap and cope. They still shitted out his unfinished work as The Lost Episodes. They gave his whole format to Key and Peele, something he's still bitter about. And I speculate he didn't get what he wanted since he tells people not to stream, or at least pirate, Chappelle Show.
Nah. He just switched tracks to making fun of trans people.
@@BasedGoddieyou completely missed the point. He didn’t lose his career he didn’t lose anything. Walking away from the show was just an act.
I wonder why he likes who’s laughing at his jokes now. Or maybe he quit caring. For me Katt is better. Burr even better than that. None of them hold a candle to Pryor or Carlin for goat status. Chronocentric bull I tell ya. He just cool with the famous peeps.
"What you all are calling cancellation, is actually criticism. Stop being babies about it"
Felt so good to hear, preach it!
Trans-ness is not the same as blackness. I could make a fifteen-hour critique of this video. This guy should be canceled - that's what you guys believe in. Is it not? Have your medicine.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bz wth are you talking about? 💀
Except that you guys cried whenever you got cancelled. Hold this L
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzfirstly, his comment wasn’t about that at all. Secondly, transness and blackness or however you identify the two, aren’t the same, BUT you can’t say you’re supporting black people if you’re not supporting a black person because they decide to be transgender. Being transgender doesnt directly impact anybody except themselves and their physical partner. So to not support a black person when they’re doing no harm to anybody, just makjng themselves the best version they see fit of themselves, is not supportive. No one’s saying cancel Dave, most people just wanted him to see that he actually is just supporting hate with his comments whether he means to or not
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bz LMAO "transness," as you call it, is fine. Let people be.
That Burr example has one key element which helps it land so well: he is the target of the punchline. It's a spin on self-deprecated humor.
Agree, and he always remind his audience that he came from a working class family and then he joke about how he try to understand something new only to end up with a dumb conclusion. Which i think it's funny, wholesome and very relatable.
Also as a white person in an interracial relationship it's very relatable to me. I was also constantly flaking and suffering. I used to say dang I'm itchy twice a day until my now spouse was like "then. Put some lotion on??" They changed my fucking life
That, and the joke isn't about "how weird black people are" but more "I had no idea about this, and when I asked, she had the funniest response".
It’s funny because bill comes off as more raunchy but bill also shows his vulnerability, admits to his own ignorance on stage. Dude is an open book and still manages to be funny and edgy in a good way
@@ProfessorCDO he was also good in mandolorian
5:53 To understand why the word lifestyle is a useless word in this context I quote George Carlin: " And you will not hear me refer to anyone's lifestyle . If you want to know what a moronic word "lifestyle" is, all you have to do is realize that in a technical sense, Atilla the Hun had an active outdoor lifestyle ."
Thank you for this 😭 "lifestyle" has always sounded so cringy to me. Is being a rapist or serial killer a lifestyle?
and thats on carlin!
@@LowSlungBadBitch I agree and always have but lately I've taken to using the word ironically like "capitalist lifestyle" or "MAGA lifestyle"
Dave Chappelle has a problem I like to call "too rich to get any smarter."
I shorten that to: "mental wealth problems"
@@doodleprophetThat's brilliant!
@@baronvonsatan These are both brilliant! And such a perfect way to describe what's going on with Dave.
What’s unintelligent about him?
@@doodleprophet lol that's really clever, I love it!
My bigot boomer uncle couldn't stand the Chappelle show. He loves dave now.
Dave's audience demographic has shifted.
When you're cheesing in a picture w Lauren Boebert, you know you've hit the rock bottom of life. I wonder if he'll ever look back at this moment and cringe. Probably not.
@@tranquilrabies That audience capture is a beast.
And none of Dave's audience wants to admit this weird shift and embracing of conservatives. They just seem other people worshipping their comedy god.
@@Mr.International82...nah. you just like him more now cause he says the words you like to hear
That pretty much sums up the Dave Chappelle career arch.
You can hang your hat on "If you're trying to be offensive don't complain when you offend someone" 👏🏿👏🏿.
Right? It's the same as cultivating a cool attitude of not caring about other people's opinions, but also wanting those same people to think you are cool because of that attitude. It's just not going to happen.
when talking to some of my peers over the years, i feel like im the outcast. im telling you when i hear other black men not being transphobic i get taken aback and it shouldnt feel that way. thank you for saying the things i get roasted for and looked down on.
You’re just on the forefront of what will someday hopefully be normal. Your opinions and values will age well, as opposed to the people who made fun of you.
A lot of comedians that whine about being canceled like to compare themselves to great comedians from the past that faced censorship. But the key difference is the classic greats were punching up, not down, and they got in hot water with institutions for challenging their power, not the common folk for being bigoted.
Exactly. Some of them even leave out the fact that some of the past greats changed their routines over time. Richard Pryor is one example.
They perceive trans people as being “above them” in society because they’re finally gettin equal treatment, the same way alot of white people felt about black people in the 70s
🙌🙌🙌
No such as “punching up/down.” They’re just jokes. Don’t watch ‘em if you don’t like ‘em.
@@himwhoisnottobenamed5427 There is definitely such a thing. It's why jokes at the expense of marginalized groups or people with disabilities are generally frowned upon.
I'm 41 and having more and more of those "that was a decade ago... that was two decades ago" moments. I felt that look in my bones.
Whenever people tell me "why can't you just passively enjoy media/art?" I'm just so baffled that people don't want to use their brains to think about anything critically.
You can do both tho
@@m.dave2141there is a time and place to do both. Sure. Hell it’s a reason why I enjoyed Rebel Moon. I turned off my brain and enjoyed the grungy Star Wars ripoff.
The problem is that Dave Chapelle considers himself a voice for marginalized people. That has been a big part of his material for decades and it’s why he has a large audience today.
Can you passively consume his comedy specials without thinking too deeply about the point he’s making? Sure. But then I think you don’t get the right to complain that some people might find said performance bigoted. Just passively consume and be on your way.
I'm right there with you. I'm amazed at how so many people don't engage with the media they consume. I see it alot with music. Metal has a lot of progressive groups and I see tons of metal heads say the most bigoted shit while jammin super progressive music. Well they never think critically about the music and it's lyrics. They just hear brutal breakdowns and screams and assume it's just macho angry noise. A great example is how many right wingers like rage against the machine. While supporting the very machine RATM is against. Weird world
@@DropThatRamen RATM has this beautiful recurring cycle where a rare moment of paying attention may occur and suddenly they'll feel that the band changed their message and it didn't used to be so political. It's excellent insight into the process.
and i do want to be able to just vibe with some media! but i can’t when the media decides [oppressed minority] is the butt of the joke. it’s very annoying.
I was shocked about Dave's lack of self-awareness when he told the story about his trans friend. I mean, every Black person has had that experience of a white person excusing their bigoted behavior away because they have a Black friend who is OK with it. It was crazy that he didn't see the analogy.
Literally, it feels like a bit that he would normally make fun of "I don't hate the trans, my best friend is trans... ANNNNDDD they killed themself" and he legit used that as his actual defense. The Irony is radiating
What if dave had boobie inwouod like hom more :) squeeeeze!! 🥺
@@JustHANOya
Ppl are not thinkijg about the situation
And the lecturing women about how they should tell their truth. I don't get why we project ourselves in others.
Chappelle has descended to getting laughter from the catharsis of validation: when you reaffirm someone’s taboo feelings and they laugh out of satisfaction that they are vindicated by an authority.
Beautifully put. The laughter isn’t really from a place of comedy or fun; it might as well be applause at a political rally
Someone said that once he did jokes for applause instead of laughter, he was over.
It stands to question why these feelings are taboo at all, why he even needs to or feels the need to cater to such an audience. Have they been browbeaten to supress their otherwise valid objections to a progressing moral code under the guise of compassion? In his newest special, The Madman's Manifesto [still on tour], which has not seen radio/tv air yet, he directly talks about his experience with trans people, how he failed to understand them and is out of his depth, and leads this into a hysterical anecdote on Jim Carry's Andy Kaufman which I won't spoil.
Moreover, it's precisely when humor IS offensive that we need it most. Comedy should PROVOKE. It should blast through prejudices, challenge preconceptions. Comedy should always leave you different than when it found you. Sure, humor can hurt, even alienate, but the risk is better than the alternative: a steady diet of innocuous, child-proof, flavorless mush. Demand to be challenged, to be offended, to be treated like thinking, reasoning adults. And raise your children to be the same. Don't let a comedian, a network, a Congressional committee, or an evil genius take away your freedom to laugh at whatever you want.
🎯🎯🎯
@@jacqueminot7224 ive seen your comments all throughout the comments section, and i guess my core question is what makes being transphobic more taboo than being transgender? wouldnt being transgender be the more unexpected and uncomfortable thing, and therefore be a stronger taboo than the relatively comfortable spot of thinking tans people are kind of weird and gross? Is it taboo if it earns him continued netflix specials and a large audience? how is it taboo if the audience already agrees with him?
As a black caribbean trans guy it means a LOT to see black men explicitly be anti-transphobic. Thanks for what you do FD.
Reading this comment made me immediately think two things:
1. I'm really happy you get to live your truth man. I know those specific cross-sections are historically difficult culturally and I'm glad you get to be proud of every aspect of who you are.
2. It made me curious if you watch Foreign Man in a Foreign Land's content because he talks about these issues and intersections from the perspective of someone from the Caribbean (if by the extreme off chance you're not familiar, he's from the Bahamas specifically).
I'd be surprised if you haven't come across his channel since they run in the same circles, but if you haven't I think you would be interested and if you have *I'm* interested in *your* take. (Obviously you could be from a different country, I'm not trying to generalize the Caribbean as a single unified experience.)
Sorry for the length. I'm just always interested in different perspectives.
@@searchingfororion Thanks! I do watch Foreign, (i’m from Trinidad & Tobago, but a lot of the general Caribbean social commentary he makes connects). The Caribbean black experience is so underrepresented on the stage in these circles; it is often just lumped in with the American black experience, or we are all considered Jamaican. Having folks like him (and Andrewism and Olay etc) that also are pro-human rights is great and my algorithm seems to get that finally.
Also this isn’t a dig at you specifically, I you know you meant well by your second part, but it felt a little patronizing. A lot of Caribbean people at a minimum lurk in these circles, and there’s an unconscious tendency for non-Caribbean folk to see us as more generally divorced from American media (including TH-cam), literature and politics, whether by choice or lack of resources, when in reality it is most of what we are consumed by, for better or worse.
I appreciate the feedback nonetheless!
@@mrbubbies_ I'm underslept so I'm not entirely sure which you were referencing as my second half; if it was my inquiry about foreign in general that was simply me being critical of the algorithm and it's lack of reliability to showcase certain types of creators and/or make good recommendations.
If it was my parenthetical about "not trying to generalize the Caribbean" that was poorly worded, I certainly understand that Carribian people share a quite a bit and solidarity (for lack of a better way to describe what I'm trying to say, it's a bit like we LGBTQ+ family though that analogy is extremely weak in comparison to the effects of colonization ect. My 2hrs of sleep brain is not doing justice to this very serious issue that unfortunately many are uninformed about.)
My intention was to say that each country is unique despite stereotyping and misconceptions - the idea that everywhere is Jamaica and Rastafarianism is only about weed, dreadlocks, and tunes being another - and I didn't want to propagate the idea that the individual identities, nuances, and experiences within separate countries were interchangeable.
Regardless of how I made it seem that way, that's absolutely not acceptable and certainly not something I would ever want to appear to endorse.
In fact, it's been my experience that individuals outside the U.S have a much better grasp of what's happening here than the average citizen here (not to mention world affairs in general e.g; Foreign's video where he tries to talk to his professor about Hati). I have my theories but I'll spare you that.
The point is, regardless of intent, I screwed up. Thanks for pointing it out because the implications are insulting and could perpetuate ignorance and more sterotyping.
If *this* comment is sloppy too, I'm sorry. I meant nothing but respect. I appreciate you giving me that in your response.
@@mrbubbies_ Unrelated: If that's you in your pfp, you're rocking it. The style has a bit of Hud from "Hair" (the film) vibes which I find totally rad.
[I'm not being creepy, just wanted to compliment your aesthetic choices and presentation.]
I'm also a photography nerd and take notice to black and white portraits done well - this one is very much so. Once again, I'll spare the ramble regarding why.
Wish the best for you fam. I appreciate your grace with me.
@@jonathanparker7895 I was writing my other comment when you wrote yours. (To clarify in case anyone reading the above perceives me being flippant or shallow in the wake of the subject).
Of course that practice was horrendous. Among all the things done during the slave trade, many argue it was the worst of all. (I know that different people will have their own suggestions for the list, I'm simply stating the opinions of some historians) This is of course because of the severity of the psychological trauma in addition to the severe and various forms of physical abuse and public spectacle.
However, I don't see a good faith connection being made here. If the "it" you are referring to not being tolerated on the islands is being trsnsgender;
1. Gender identity and sexuality are not related.
2. Not being heterosexual and SA are not related.
3. These were acts of colonization to "tame" a populace and demonstrate their "power".
As an individual who is decended from a nearly eradicated people, living on fully colonized land - the common denominator is typically cultural erasure and forced conversion. That's a rather global issue.
I'm not downplaying the pain this particular atrocity caused, nor that it would have long-term generational suffering.
I just feel you're reaching, hyper focused, or didn't express your thesis clearly enough.
TL;DR: How does the brutal abuse by slave owners have ANYTHING to do with what OP said about speaking against transphobia?
I really had a dude tell me that words like “bigot” and “cognitive dissonance” are dehumanizing to people with differing opinions and I just 🤦🏾♀️
I'm denying the legitimacy of that 'differing opinion' bs. IMHO, it's not a debate and there are not 'two sides' to any of these discussions. There's the reality and life of the people living it, and then there's some random bunghole's meaningless mouth-gas. Particularly in the case where people think they're entitled to 'debate' trans healthcare, I have simply put my foot down. it's a bad faith debate, external parties are NOT invited into my doctor's office, they ARE NOT OFFERING a competing treatment or any clear idea whatsoever of what such would look like. I'll wear them TF down with demands to see their peer-reviewed proof that their notion of what this treatment looks like is superior to the one we have. The same with any of their other bigoted bs. They DON'T HAVE a legitimate or informed opinion. it is very revealing to try to probe at the basis of their thoughts and on a public forum it's also fun because they're too arrogant to walk away so they just keep stepping in their own shit, on invitation.
@@angie99656Two questions for you:
1. Are the opinions of detransitioners who advocate for alternative treatments and/or a different approach legitimate?
2. Why do you think Nordic/European countries have hit the brakes on their approach with regard to trans healthcare?
@@milesmungo A demographic is not a monolith. Asking to cast an opinion on an entire group of people and their actions when it's something so very personalized to the individual comes across as a bad faith question if not just a poorly formed one.
@@milesmungo Clearly you intended these to be zingers.
Ex-trans political detransitioners advocating for forced detransition/conversion therapy are the same as ex-gays twenty years ago, and bear strong resemblence to anti-abortion tactics. The same dozen has been carted around the US for the past year for hearings in every state because they can't find homegrown ones who will support their anti-trans endeavors. The people who detransition because they realized they weren't trans is around 0.01 percent of people who transition. These are grown adults who made their own decisions as adults and are now grifting from conservatives.
So, this framing aside, advocating that trans bodies be violated and healthcare be snatched away is never legitimate, no matter which mouthpiece it comes from.
Most Europeans countries never advancved past the 1960s with trans care, especially the Scandinavian ones. Sweden required that trans people be sterilized in order to transition until 2013, and others held similar requirments along with other regressive gatekeeping. They haven't "hit the brakes" they have regressed from an already conservative position. To say otherwise is to lie from ignorance. Europe's medical institutions have only rarely been progressive on the matter of trans people. In a time of rising anti-trans activity, it's no surprise that certain nations would regress even further. This is the might-makes-right fallacy--cis people have the power to oppress trans people, and in this case they choose to do so and invent a rationalization for it.
@@milesmungoalso vaguely humorous that you apparently are ignoring the irony of them saying outright they dont want to engage with uninformed parties asking random shit, and you didnt say anything except 'i have questions for you' implying youre Owed a response with questions that are so basic and uninformed it makes me question why you even thought you should be engaging here
Dave ended his last special saying he wasnt going to talk about LGBTQ+ people anymore, then continued to do so.
Okay and!!!
The biggest point is, "you have a right to be wrong. But do you have a desire to be?"
Yes! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
No
Dave seeing trans issues as something that exists in competition with black issues is so frustrating, like he can't get his mind around the fact that the LGBTQ community isn't a group of solely white, privileged brats demanding to have their problems given priority over black issues to the detriment of black people. The guy completely sucks at understanding intersectionalism. It's wild because I'm SURE tons of people have explained to him that black trans women are the most victimized by transphobia by now, but he still views it within this "white sex weirdos vs the black community" framework.
Get over it
@@blissdad13Bruh how did you even get to this part of TH-cam?
You're right, black people can be privileged too
It's probably because the issue of gay marriage was put as the top issue of gay people. It almost always featured arguments made by white gay people who could afford destination weddings to states where marriage was legal and how unfair it was they couldn't get access to marriage benefits. Never focused on things like housing discrimination, employment discrimination, it lacked intersectionality.
It is frustrating how blind Dave seems to be about the fact that there are LGBTQ people who are black, and black people can be LGBTQ too. Black trans women need to be protected. Hire black trans women so they have more opportunities.
Not only did Dave bring up his trans friend as an excuse, he lied about her. Her suicide wasn’t from other trans people bullying her. Kat Blaque has a video about this
Thanks I will check that out…also Dusty Smith (Cult of Dusty) had a breakdown with evidence about Daves lies about his “trans friend”
Dave said the "hate" from other trans was a factor, not the primary determinant.
@@bh-zj4yt He sounds suspiciously like white racists saying "But I have a black friend!"
THIS! He was so close to his supposed "friend" that he failed to mention she had recently been fired and lost custody of her kid and suffered from PTSD. According to Dave, her suicide was all over defending him against mean trans bullies, who, as far as I could see from going on her Twitter feed, didn't exist. Not only did he tokenize her, but then he used her death to further indict her community. It was gross.
Exactly. He completely fabricated the level of backlash she got from other trans people for defending him, and the timeline of when her death happened. Her sister also had to speak up and confirm that the factors leading to her death had nothing to do with issues with other trans people. Once I learned just how much he lied on that woman in order to use her as a weapon, that was the point I realized this man, more than simply being ignorant as hell, is just flat out evil.
The other very subtle thing in the Closer was not only did he use his "trans friend" and not so subtly imply that her suicide was from trans people being mean... but then he dedicated the special to Norm MacDonald. Not saying he can't dedicate that special to Norm, that's fine, but the fact that he didn't *also* dedicate the special to his "trans friend" was a very subtle but heavily disturbing tell on his desire to simply use her to make a statement.
Fun fact, she received zero harassment from the trans community as well. He lied.
Then you didn't actually watch it. He clearly said he wasn't saying the hate online was the reason for his friend to off herself, and that he didn't know exactly the reason why because she didn't leave a note about it so therefore he wouldn't make assumptions. Get your facts straight. And you're acting like a comedian doing their job on stage is part of the real world and they're doing a Ted talk. It's comedy, not an inspirational speech.
@@Peasham Just because something was deleted, that doesn't mean it didn't happen, though.
@@Pumpkin0_0 Deleted tweets persist after deletion, specifically they show up stating they are tweets that are deleted. There are no such tweets under Daphne's, and there are zero screenshots and zero evidence of any harassment ever befalling her, most certainly not from the trans community, whom Dave hadn't targeted much at all up until that point.
@@Pumpkin0_0 Furthermore, you do not lie about a group of people bullying someone massively and then state that that someone committed suicide without heavily implying that that group's harassment is responsible. He knew exactly what he was doing.
As someone said on Twitter, it's really sad to see Dave go from a guy who walked away from comedy in order to stop racists from appropriating his punchlines to happily serving up hate-filled slop to that same audience...
This really is the saddest part.
Chappelle really sided with the racists and said "as long as y'all ain't hating on ME we're alright" 😂
Twitter 😂😂😂
That's not why Dave left.
Twitter is not a real place.
If you have love and respect for a friend you might rip on them and make fun of them as long as they are laughing along with you. But when they stop laughing, you know its time to back the fuck off.
And his friend literally can't laugh along with him because she isn't alive anymore... absolutely ghoulish
@@SwizzleMix I like to believe Daphene was laughing up until the point where her PTSD influenced her suicide and that Dave had nothing to do with it.
@@SwizzleMix Nice of you to leave out the part in which the lgbtq "community" bullied Daphne to suicide because they opened for Dave.
@@Bourikii2992this is false, Kat Blaque did a video about her.
@@ooostarb3rryooo Oh no not a random youtuber.
When I saw DC at a town hall meeting bitching about the possibility of affordable housing in his neighborhood I knew that man was about money and status and NOT for the people.
Wait, I thought he was joking abt trump only cared abt people like him, but the classism is actually real?
It wasn't just that, he wanted to use the same plot for his restaurant and that's why he was complaining about it. He was pissed and confused that they would prioritize low income housing over his "6 million dollar per year business"
That’s what turned me off from him. Threatened to pull all his money out
It was because they said it was affordable housing but turned it to only offer less than 10% at affordable rates and blamed it on cost.
@@relaxationandmeditation3607 important context
"It's freedom of speech, not freedom from consequences..."
Yes, my guy. Preach it
Who gets to decide what the consequences are?
And just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you are right.
@@TheNuclearGeek Anybody.
@@TheNuclearGeek Government decides legal consequences. Society decides social consequences. Pretty simple, really
@@sjeya96 Exactly. So why do all these conservatives get offended when people call them an asshole when they're being an asshole?
As a straight black man, I've always taken to heart until all are free non of us are. Just because I might not be gay or trans or lgbtq it doesn't mean you should just let hate happen because it doesn't affect you. I say this for all hate against women, minorities, disabled, or just hating certain people period. Doing the right thing is the right thing even with all the negativity nowadays towards just being a decent empathetic person period. You don't have to be a Captain or try to force ally ship. Just care, educate yourself, and be there naturally without thinking you're owed anything or acceptance in these groups even when you're truly doing it for the right reasons. Cause more then ever being just a half decent person and saying don't be a sleaze ball will catch you hell. It's so easy making money being a hateful lying bigot it's ridiculous.
Lastly on the Dave Chappelle front lots of people nowadays use the oh I'm just just telling the truth or you're being sensitive narrative to try and get out consequences of their words and lies and hate. Stephen Crowder for example using just plain racist bigoted hateful rhetoric and saying he's a comedian and it's just jokes. Those are even just edgy satire or humor. It's just plain using that excuse to just be hateful and sadly the trolling and doubling down instead of learning and being a human and understanding and saying he's wrong and makes mistakes Dave trolls. Clear difference between his commentary and jokes on race etc. Compared to jokes on trans. Doesn't care when it isn't about him. More than anything words have power.
I also taken to hurt, taken to HURT, hUrt, hUUUURT
Truth.
Well stated.
Im a white, disabled and bi dude. The same folks who want any of us out want all of us out. Ill always be an ally to anyone opressed or held under by the system. Theres a lot more of us than them
As a decent human being, if more of your energy goes into trying to shield those marginalized people from bad jokes/words they don't like then taking real world actions such as coming to a pride rally, coming to a drag show or coming to a protest against the violent threats they receive every single day, I have to question how much you actually care about the true well-being of that community.
Except it's not just shielding from bad words and jokes. It's giving people in the real world more ammo for their hate. If this man who is a born leader focused his energy on being empathetic and having the overall joke be the at the expense of transphobes, it might turn a light on for more than a few people. Instead I hear alphabet people come out of the mouths of transphobes and he has helped to normalize their hate and negative responses to trans and lgbqt+ people.
6:54 This needs to be repeated again and again. “Freedom of speech. Not freedom from consequences and criticism.” Too many people don’t understand what that means.
A lot of crybullies like Dave scream 'cancel culture' when it's just 'being talked back to.'
I like to say "Speech is free, talk is cheap, and everything has consequences, positive negative or otherwise." Saying what you want but being unwilling to face the consequences of it isn't "free speech" but "cheap talk" that was likely full of crap in the first place.
11:42 - I think what pisses me off so much with this is that the Disability community is organized. I've been working in the disability community for over a decade. I run my own nonprofit. I even worked in DC Disability community in the early 2010s. He still doesn't know what he's talking about. Also, like a large part of the trans community is also part of the disability community.
I was over at my friend's place this past weekend and her boyfriend was watching this, and when he said that, I just had to walk out of the room. Being trans and disabled, it was like "Why you trying to get laughs outta just being a jerk?"
YEAH, in my experience disabled people are very organized in activism, but we tend to go unheard because so many people see us as less than human. in fact, i'd argue that the disabled community is more organized than the trans community
Agreed, he has no idea how well organized and effective disability justice advocates are. His jokes are just sick.
And as usual he pretends there’s no intersection. Black folks face so much medical injustice, disproportionate rates & impacts of disability, and yet he has the gall to act like ableism is orthogonal to white supremacy.
I am someone with a rare genetic epilepsy so I can second this. I go to college and that fact alone has had me used as inspiration porn so many times for charities near me; it is so frustrating.
The "difference of opinion" junk is... SO tiring. My existence is not an opinion.
Bigotry is an opinion just like arsenic is a flavor.
TESTIFY Honey
Stop gaslighting everyone that questioning you in any way shape or form is denying your existence. We know you exist. You may be full of it, but you exist.
Every new Dave special seems, to me, like another confession that he doesn't think he's funny anymore, but also doesn't care because he's figured out how to get more doing less, and to hell with anyone who gets hurt in the process.
I think Dave from 20 years ago would be embarrassed by the content toDave is putting out
Shit, at this point I'm concerned he'd have just pivoted sooner if he knew it was an option
Like FD said about Kanye, I think we're actually seeing the real Dave.
YesterDave would be embarrassed by toDave, for sure. Don't know if you meant to write 'toDave' but I like it and I agree with you. I loved YesterDave and feel sad and disappointed by 'toDave'
@@kategold16 I totally meant to write toDave, and yesterDave is the perfect companion!
OH MY FUCKING GAWD!!!YOU SUMMMED IT UP SO NICELY 😂😂😂
I'm just still astounded he tried to use the "but i have a ___ friend" line unironically. Like, really dude? AND it turned out he didn't know her that well.
To the privileged, criticism will feel like cancellation.
Comedian can make fun of any community they want...it is their job and if you're offended it is on you
@@balajiraju4157true. And if they lose all their wealth, power, and influence that’s on them ❤️
when people get good at saying "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about" the world will be a much more chill place
One of Dave's biggest idols was George Carlin. And Carlin would never and I mean ever have put up with what Dave is doing. Carlin spent 45 years telling people "do not ever punch down". Carlin even said if you remember me for nothing else, remember that advice. Dave has said more than once how much he respected Carlin and idolized him as the first white comic he truly understood. I wonder if things would be different if Carlin were alive to speak with him.
How did you become friends with George Carlin?
@@csd8204You don’t have to know the guy personally to know that Carlin’s more intricately well-aged comedy is an exact contrast to Chapelle’s “punching down” style of comedy.
@@frackingfluidinjection you do know all groups should be able to get made fun of right?
@@Kickinthescience So...George Carlin was just making shit up when he contrasted punching up/down? I mean, if your position is "it's extra-funny when just lying and talking shit about marginalized groups, and repeating the same lies that the open supporters of terrorism use to push violence, is presented as the height of humor," that's something, but don't pretend like that's the only option available to you.
@@csd8204 Carlin wrote several books explaining his philosophy on comedy?
This could be wrong, but when FD mentioned how Dave didn’t care enough about trans people to make clever jokes it really reminded me of HBomb’s comments on why people plagiarise. It comes across as a complete dismissal of a while community, like they’re so far beneath him and so powerless to stop him that they’re not worthy of any respect or even humanity. That might be a bit far but it’s how he comes across.
no sweetheart it’s not too far at all
They're not powerless: they can complain incessantly and bitterly.
What makes it worse is that the jokes used were straight up product placement. So, remember back in 2016ish when Dave first displayed his transphobia, in that special he said "Netflix has demanded I do 4 jokes on their latest OJ Simpson show" and uses that as a means to attack Jenner. This time he uses Man on the Moon and Netflix's add campaign (Jim Carey was doing Daniel Day-Lewis method acting to never break character) as a means to launch another transphobic set. Like, since his return he keeps accepting product placement add space as a vehicle to be transphobic. It's like, not only is he being lazy in punching down, he's doing so while accepting commercials in his set, and using all that to target marginalized people.
Im so used to the discussion of specifically racial topics in Signifieds comments it took me a sec to realize you meant "whole" not "white" lmao
@@Dimefan91 I'm not defending Dave being transphobic but I don't think you know what product placement is. Referencing an actor who did something that most people know about (because it's just a common fact) doesn't have anything to do with that actor doing another thing that just so happened to be with the same company. He never even directly talked about Netflix or anything on Netflix in the special. And the quote you put about the OJ thing is likely intended to be taken more as a joke than a serious thing that he had to do. Plus transitioning from jokes on one subject to jokes in another subject while connecting them is kind of just how comedy acts are structured. Otherwise it'd just be a guy standing there reading a list of jokes.
The way some of his fans say he "disagrees with their lifestyle" is so weird. A lifestyle isn't an opinion or a value, it's not something you agree with it's something you adopt for yourself or don't. How entitled does someone have to be to think they have a say on someone else's way to live their life? It's like saying he disagrees with what time I go to bed and wake up. Don't try to make it cute, just accept that he's being an *sshole.
They don't know anything about LGBT people's "lifestyle". No one has an answer when you ask what "lifestyle" they are referring to. I guess some people assume that LGBT people are highly promiscuous and party all the time, and that might be true of some, but how is that any different than the "lifestyle" of young frat bros or any given spring breaker. Straight men with such a "lifestyle"are generally considered cool. I used to have a transmale roommate. He worked at a grocery while working on a degree with social work. He liked football. He liked to cook. He had a parrot. He liked board games. He had a lot of dvds. He kept his apartment very clean. He had a steady girlfriend, he very occasionally went to a bar. He liked Nickelback. What part of that "lifestyle" would Dave take fault with? The Nickelback?
@@brokencandy1797 About the only "lifestyle" I've found that's common to trans people in general is liking Queen and Freddie Mercury more than the average, usually with a side of being jealous of Mr. Mercury's vocal range.
So I guess Dave takes fault with Queen and has trash music tastes? (also mandatory meming on Nickelback asides Nickelback's good)
Same, I really dont understand how taking a medication, going by a different name, and shitting in another bathroom is such an insane lifestyle change to some people
@@neoqwerty I mean...there is something inherently funny to me as a trans woman, in singing along to "I want to break free" We're just women (who keep getting called men in dresses) singing along to a bunch of men in dresses.
@@neoqwertythis is very much not universal don't group me in with this please
Nothing seems to ruin a man like being on top and disconnected from the real world.
You mean like how leftists are disconnected from the real world?
It’s infuriating that his response has not been to go away and educate himself. He’s a smart guy. If he’d done any reading or listening at all, he’d understand.
Facts
and im very sure there are many trans people that have no problem sitting down with him and having a good conversation, but he doesn't wanna do that because it doesnt make him money. But maybe thats the issue, why is he still getting paid?
the grift
idk why no one isnt talking about how religion and bigotry correlate and how much that has shaped the perspective of Dave.
It's 100% about the money at this point.
I remember that first special when Dave talked about trans people, he opened the segment by explaining "Trans people have beef with me, and for some reason won't let it go." He then went on to tell a few tired jokes about trans people we've all heard a dozen times, never addressing why trans people were upset with him, and never making even the weakest attempt at an apology. When he moved into his next bit I remember thinking, "Well how is the trans community supposed to forgive you if you never apologize and continue making shitty jokes?"
And in every single special since then, he's done the exact same thing. Chapelle has had ample opportunity to make this issue go away. Genuinely, if he didn't bring up trans folks in every single special he's done since he returned to standup, NO ONE would care about the jokes he made in his early career. HE'S the one who perpetuates the contraversy, HE'S the person who could end it forever by simply not not bringing it up, but he insists on continuing his fight for gold in the Opression Olympics.
He make jokes about everyone though why should they get special treatment?
@@LinnellBinn to put it very very shortly, Dave's telling the trans equivalent of watermellon and fried chicken jokes. If a white guy spent ten minutes of every special making jokes about how black people love watermelon, Netflix wouldn't pay him $50mil to do more.
@@apollofell3925 I could be misremembering, but my impression from the most recent joke was him articulating his own feelings about interacting with trans people. I wonder how the harm is measured because many people on the 'other side' claim harm as well.
@@apollofell3925 what harm is a Chapelle joke causing ?
@@LinnellBinn The mass harassment of trans online spaces in the months after his first special, for one thing.
The kind of people who think you can't critique your idols are the kind of people who think you can't love your kid while they're in prison, or you can't love your country without being blind about it. It's so immature.
Engaging in theatrical and public expressions of "I told ya so" for inconsequential matters is childish.
"Loving your country" is just kind of dumb. Come on. Big difference between your kid, and a false construction made up by very powerful people who do not care about you.
You can critique whoever you like. Just don't be upset when people point out that you sound soft because they're making fun of a group you're a part of or an ally to.
@@thedude8526a lot of trans people can take trans jokes if they're actually funny.
@@susanrichardson631 They are funny. Many people who watched his specials would agree.
The line about not knowing or caring enough about the target of the joke to come up with something really insightful really hits the nail on the head. They aren't interested in the human side of the joke or in saying something new and clever and that really applies to all punch down comedians. They are going for the easy laugh from their target audience.
The thing about Chappelle and other comedians who go this route is that it probably isn't even about trans folks. It's about their own goddamn ego. I could honestly believe that Dave doesn't actually give a shit about trans people either way, but his status as the person up front with the microphone got challenged. What it seems like is that a lot of these comedians can only deal with criticism like they deal with heckling. What's important to them is to control the crowd and control the narrative, even if that means furthering harm.
Treating criticism like addressing heckling is an appropriate response. Why should Dave attack his critics the way they attack him?
ALLLLLL OF THIS
I think he gives a shit but he doesn't want to care enough to stop doing jokes..he's basically saying yall can't take a joke..which may be true but he himself said he would stop making trans jokes, seems like he can't help himself..
Didn't he say at one point that he was attracted to a trans woman and it made him mad?
Great precise observation
I am trans. Being trans is sometimes hella funny, like there is a lot about the trans experience that is surreal and absurd. I laugh at myself all the time and I know a lot of trans people who find a lot of humor in life as a trans person. The problem with Dave’s trans jokes is that there’s nothing particularly new or funny about them. It’s the same tired crap everyone has heard a million times. His comedy about trans people boils down to trans people being icky and deceptive, which I guess hits with a transphobic audience but for anyone else it’s just shitty and tired. If he wasn’t just another transphobe he would be fully capable of crafting excellent jokes on the topic of trans people or the trans experience.
This!! ❤ Explained it exactly like this to my husband recently. Everyone can laugh at themselves as long as they are not being disparaged. Dave has a bigoted grudge against trans people and is digging his heels into his position plain and simple. He’s not laughing with them he’s laughing at them aka attacking them.
Yes. The rule I use is: is the joke "Haha trans/black/fat/gay people bad"? Then it's not funny for me, and is telling of the person's prejudices.
I love being trans because I can find a lot of humor out of things that cis people normally don't have to deal with. As you said, it's absurd and surreal but I enjoy humor and wouldn't change anything. When my friend who didn't know better asked why wasn't he allowed to make jokes about trans people if I do it all the time I responded that there is a difference between a joke and an insult that you are passing off as a joke. There's being a comedian and then there's being an asshole. There's nothing stopping cis people from telling trans jokes as long as they are jokes and not transphobia with the wrapping of a "joke". My girlfriend is cis and she tells trans jokes all the time because she knows secondhand the trans experience. Her favorite that I find funny is "What does a trans lesbian bring on the second date? Not a UHaul because they're too broke." That's hilarious because I've been there. So often she has had to pay for things because transitioning is expensive (especially when trying to buy plus-sized women's clothes) and I'm usually just scraping by the skin of my teeth financially.
I've found that the difference between funny and not funny, even if it's the same joke, is whether the teller of the joke has respect for the "brunt" of the joke.
That's how me and my other black friends can tell a joke amongst ourselves that's hilarious, that even may be slightly problematic because we have a certain amount of respect and love for each other. Same with my gay friends, and I'm sure it's the same within the Trans community.
Adding to the respect is the fact that a joke told between equals is a lot different than "punching down"
Also, to address the "punching down" theory, punching down is made even worse when the butt of the joke is an absolute equal but is considered "less than" by the teller because of a form of bigotry. It's even worse because it's an attempt to puch down at an actual equal.
I'm assuming that life for you definitely isn't a straightforward romp through the roses, but I would like to say that I'm optimistic about part of my generation (43yo) and those following that we more and more aren't tolerating bigoted behavior whether it be homophobic, transphobic, racist or sexist. I hope you're as optimistic as I am as we sit back and watch the majority of these bigots die off ,lol.
I readily admit that I probably not seeing the whole picture, and am always open to learning more, or even where im wrong, but I'm hoping that the growing intolerance of intolerance that I see around me is a signal of more to come.
May there be a day where you can live your life with at least as much ease as a cis het white American male.
lol but wait wait, he had a trans friend, so he’s exempt. listening to someone say that who you know would give someone a (deserved) verbal beatdown for saying the same thing about a race of people and not understand the irony is soooooo fucking infuriatingly funny
Whats better than saying "i told you so?" Having monetized video evidence you were right 😅
Sounds like cheap validation that profits no one.
Thank you for this. My wife is transgender. There is a way to talk about trans people in a truly meaningful and funny way, but what Dave and other comedians take the lazy way out by relying on stereotypes and xenophobic rhetoric, rather than writing something interesting.
Disagree
@@IngPeace Disagree of your disagreement.
@Sinisteraf what a meaningful addition to the conversation. Truly we should be thankful to have you around.
Comedy is 75% stereotypes
Imagine a comedian punching down on Black people during the civil rights marches, when they were being attacked by the State. Not very funny given the historical context right?
So many of these jokes just add up to: "Those transgenders are weird, they make me uncomfortable, and they need to know their place!" Draping that argument in the aesthetics of comedy does not make it funny or any less authoritarian.
Jokes for claps, not jokes for laughs
You don't know what authoritarian means.
@@dominicparker6124i always thought Dave was that way. he provides social commentary that is more funny to listen to than anyone else’s, not particularly “comedy” so i never saw why people called him a comedian.
What about a person like me? Yes transgenders do make me feel weird, it's unnatural and I'm not comfortable playing pretend. All of that being said, i don't want any trans person to be targeted for hatred or violence. I want them to have happy fulfilling lives but my brain can't be forced into thinking it's normal.
@@DonMega888 calling a male a female will never be normal and it is biologically impossible. Feel free to identify as whatever you want as that is subjective but sex isn’t
It didn't resonate with me that much at the time, but now I keep coming back to ContraPoints' 2019 video "The Darkness", where she unpacks how non-trans folks don't really know what they're talking about because they don't have the lived experience to know what's truly funny about trans-ness, which is the darkness of their reality.
Contrapoints was key in helping me get a more full understanding of Trans people and the unfair damage others are bringing on them.
Be kind and open hearted ❤
And Contra doesn't know what it's like to be other people either. They want a gold sticker for narcissism just because they belong to the right demographic?
This phenomena is just now starting to be addressed within the experiences of black Americans attempting to be understood by white folks. Its unsurprising that it exists within the misunderstanding of other disenfranchised minority groups also. Sad but unsurprising. I can say progress is being made. Once accepted as a fact in the realm of experiences of race it will most likely be applied more broadly.
@@KwadDamyjAAAH just for once try not to use whataboutism for every single excuse
Okay but contrapoints is EXTREMELY problematic.
She got rich enough and lucky enough to pass and started making a profit mocking every trans woman who doesn't, suggesting they don't have the same right to exist in public as she does etc@@ThickRedPaste
THANK YOU for pointing out how he tried to put a wedge between trans issues and black issues, like they're completely separate. Not just because, yes, there are black trans people, but also because the tools of oppression and the oppressors wielding those tools for both groups are 99% THE SAME
EDIT: to "clarify" (I know, I'm digging deeper, I'm sorry), I did not mean to imply that the experience of black oppression and trans oppression are the same from the perspective of the marginalized. They are both worse than what anyone deserves to be put through, and beyond that I'm not looking to waste time on oppression olympics. What I was trying to say is that dismantling the systems of black oppression ONLY serve to benefit trans people (and vice versa, to some extent). Or to put it in the negative way: queer people letting racism get comfy in your house means transphobia is going to try and get in there too. Similarly, calling out Chapelle on his shit also helps keep online communities clean for everyone.
Alright go back to roasting me in the comments
trans issues is completely different to black issues
@@AM-bm9rsFacts and the fact that they tried to compare the two as synonymous proves that point
@@AM-bm9rs How and why?
@@AM-bm9rsfor black trans people?
Also, I’m old enough to remember how the language used to portray trans people as inherently disingenuous degenerate sexual predators was deployed against black people in the past
@@vegannn7178 this might be the tightest circle of circular logic I’ve ever seen! It’s basically a dot 😂
Oh my god at 6:00 this resonated with me so hard. So often people will have bigoted views, but they know they can’t defend them, so instead of arguing the merits of their views (which they know they can’t do), they’ll instead argue that “well it’s my right to have different views”
God it’s so frustrating, thank you for putting it so succinctly. Feels so validating to have that type of response called out.
I feel like this exact template of argument happens like 100x per day on twitter. Someone will say something bad, people will say “what this person said is bad” and all the reactionaries will come out and say “you would dare silence someone for having an opinion?? i will fight for their rights!!”
People really use the "It's their right to be racist/sexist/transphobic/bigoted" argument? It's an blatant admission of guilt.
Right and they get angry when ppl call them a bigot Ive seen some anti pc youtube commentary channels point out how blue haired ppl keep calling them bigots and screaming "HE'S A BIGOT!!" like thats how ppl actually talk its funny how it gets under their skin.
I think the hardest part is the cognitive dissonance they’ll have where “transphobic” is ok but “racist” isn’t and you just gotta sit there like the math ain’t mathing here
It is his right to be whatever it is he is, it's also why I don't fuck with him anymore.
@@sidhenihilist exactly. He has the right to say whatever he wants. We also have the right to think he's a POS for it, and not support him.
You're not quite right. Its an admission of a total lack of guilt. or remorse. Or understanding.
I think the unfortunate thing about this is how openly cynical it is. The fact that Dave understands how fucked up these laws are means he at least views us as people, just not people who are going to spend money on his show.
I think it comes from this deep misunderstanding that my generation hates ALL forms of laughter unless its kindergarten knock knock jokes. I find the LGBTQ+ community has this "idea" thrown on them a lot too.
If Dave not only took the time to understand trans people, but what people in my generation DO find funny (which isn't too different from his), he wouldn't seem like an unthawed relic from 1996.
this !!
it’s so incredibly cheap to just tell half-assed bigotry and insults because it will make a lot of money from right wing viewers, no matter if the jokes are actually clever or funny. there are so many comedians that tell jokes about the lgbtq community (despite not being in it what a shocker) that are genuinely funny because they’ve been thought out and do not rely on just insulting a marginalised community
Omg YES, its like the dark comedy allowed is bigotry. Instead of a clever joke that might be offensive, just call someone a liar for being Trans, so funny /s
My friends and I have plenty of jokes about me being trans (“I knew you were a vet, but what do you mean you weren’t in the navy?” Or my favorite “I’m not like the other girls”). These jokes come from a place of love and an understanding that transitioning is full of oddities worth laughing at.
Jokes being reduced to “ew a trans tried to pretend gender at me” is not just an insult to trans people, it’s an insult to comedy as an art.
Could you explain the vet and navy joke to me, please?
"I'm not like the other girls" is a personal favorite of mine!
@@clarkharrell2227 there’s just an old joke that everyone in the navy is queer. The person I was talking to was made that joke when I mentioned having been in a different branch.
It’s not like “a good joke” since it’s just an old stereotype. But it was made by someone who very much wanted me to know they accepted me and an old gay joke was how they showed it.
My favorite trans joke is where we share news stories of people getting their genitals mangled in machinery or attacked by animals and saying, "Hey look, new bottom surgery just dropped!"
@GilboPaints Thanks for explaining, I was thinking vet as in animal doctor 😅
7:54 People who say this baffle me. If I analyze something, it's BECAUSE I like it, flaws and all.
it's always the same issue at the end of the day. ppl want to front as if the criticism is "these groups can NEVER be joked about" when the issue is that the "jokes" aren't all that funny if you have even half of an idea about the group the joke's about. Chappelle's old material would bring up black stereotypes all of the time, but he'd either point out the absurdity with them OR tell stories from his own life that were somehow hyper specific and highly relatable to a lot of the black American experience to poke fun at the kernel of truth embedded in the stereotype. And that's what made them so funny (apart from his delivery). Even when the butt of the joke ended up being black people/culture, it was still coming from a place of empathy and understanding, the same way you'd rash on your family or friends. Jokes from bigots about the thing they're bigoted against will always lack the empathy and knowledge to rise above just regurgitating hateful stereotypes
Jokes, like reflexive criticism, do not have to informed. And jokes, as your criticism implies, is subjective, just like the topics of criticism. Dave doesn't waste time attempting to persuade critics the humor of his jokes: you find it funny, or you don't, but don't speak for others because plenty find his jokes hilarious and relevant.
@@pendejo6466 i never said others don't find dave's jokes funny. I am pretty explicitly saying his trans jokes are probably hilarious to those with a very shallow understanding of trans folks because the jokes themselves are just him repackaging shallow stereotypes of trans people, i.e. "the 'jokes' aren't all that funny if you have even half of an idea about the group the joke's about." The same way I know minstrel performers doing caricatures of black ppl were (and still are) a HUGE hit amongst folks who have a shallow understanding of and overall lack of empathy towards black folk. Comedy in ignorance will have its fans, but if you're aware of your own ignorance on the topic/group, don't be pissy or mad when those who aren't so ignorant point out the limitations of said comedy
@@realtalk13 Dave just has to understand the topic enough to make fun of it. Jokes, like criticisms, often contain exaggeration and distortions. You're not a better person because you don't laugh at certain jokes.
The whole "he doesn't care enough about the targets of his jokes..." part is a great point
dave understands exactly what he is doing. he knows its monetary value.
It's monetary because so many people in this society are secretly cruel and hateful.
As a trans guy, my life experience is often humorous. But Dave isn't laughing with us, he's laughing at us.
Eh he is more laughing at people like fd signifer you can ignore it he can’t he needs the drama and Dave chapel loves creating it
I don't think transphobia is being directed at FD
Cause y’all are funny when you freak out.
@@austinh7110so you acknowledge Dave is not funny anymore, and his whole shtick is that he’s offending people so that they give him “funny” reactions when their offended? And that you find it funny? That’s pretty openly vicious and bigoted and also a huge insult to Dave, but hey mask off
@@elijahdonb7553 nah he’s still funny. It’s just hilarious watching corny people like FD get all heated.
Honestly to me, the barometer for if a joke is problematic or not is whether it indicates any desire by the person telling it to know and understand the community they're joking about. Case in point, the problem with Chappelle's trans jokes is not just that they're edgy or offensive, it's that they're offensive in a way that indicates he doesn't even want learn more about what he's talking about. It shows contempt and lack of respect for that community.
It reminds me of how Taika Waititi, when playing Hitler in Jojo Rabbit, said he didn't even care to learn about how he talked or how he acted, because that would be giving him too much respect.
I wonder.
You just speaking to yourself?
So, what? Trans people are the "not sees" in Dave's eyes? Maybe he's right. Maybe they are misguided. Should "not sees" be respected for their ideals? The fact that he's talking about it at all means that he wants to understand them at some fundamental level. He's just worried that they aren't doing things the right way. Like, the " not sees" wanted a better society. Woo hoo. It's all the other stuff that kinda ruins the whole party.
Sheeit, those trans folk wouldn't be the only misguided people out there.
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bz He is not right. If I called you dumber than a brick does that mean I want to understand you? No, it means I don't like you and wanted to call you dumber than a brick. Want to take a guess as to who burned the books of the world's first trans clinic? The fact that you act like some of the worst fascists in history were merely misguided while doing the accusation in a mirror of equating them to a minority group they put in death camps is reprehensible.
Exactly, trying to make it either "jokes are jokes" or "don't joke about x" like in most discussions is missing the point. It's not about making jokes about people, it's about laughing at them with no given opportunity to laugh with them. When the butt of the joke can't relate to it, they are isolated and can't really empathize with the joke or the audience laughing at it. Just think about male jokes by male comedians and compare them to jokes about other groups by the same comedians. "Men can vouch for this" and "women am I right?" Are two entirely different forms of comedy that affect how the "butt" will relate to it.
@@lukebytes5366 How is this any different from any other kind of joke? You just want him to stop telling jokes?
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzThe fact you’re comparing trans people to Nazis says a lot.
Saying Nazis were a “good intentioned but misguided” party is a gross understatement of their beliefs, especially when their idea of a “better world” was one without Jews, people of color, disabled people, lgbtq+ people, anyone else that didn’t meet their ideal from the Aryan race myth. Nazism was rotten to the core of its philosophy and ideals.
Again, Nazis literally killed lgbtq+ people in concentration camps. Perhaps people proposing and supporting anti-lgbtq+ legislation should really start questioning where this road of hate ends. I’ve seen some people even arguing that homosexuality should be illegal in the US again. Then, there’s all the hate crimes against lgbtq+ people perpetrated by bigots who obviously thought that queer people deserve to die. But perhaps bigots are just “misguided but just want a better world” too?
And your comment just shows that you know nothing about the trans community or the trans experience, if you think Dave is right about them. Meanwhile, everyone who *does* have a clue about the trans community is out here saying he’s wrong. And you’re wrong too.
It's funny that people would get angry at you for having an opinion about Dave, but defend his right to punch down at trans people. Make it make sense.
they think they have a spot at Dave’s table or something
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug
punch down? looooool
Who's angry? Criticizing bad takes is not that same as getting angry. You either have free game to make fun of everyone in society or you end up with protected classes that get special treatment. I don't want to live in a world with protected classes and neither does any half decent comedian pushing the envelope of what you can make fun of. If anything, I see way more outrage videos on the Trans side calling anyone who thinks his jokes are funny bigots. That's a soft mentality. It's all funny until your group is up for being made fun of.
Trans people aren't oppressed. He was punching up
I really appreciate you making this video. I'm a trans woman, and I'm a mental health practitioner for other trans people. When folks like Dave do this, it has a serious ripple effect through our community. I had multiple people in my personal and professional life who became more suicidal after Dave's last round of specials due to the amount of online hatred they received. I even had to suffer through it myself and combating suicidality is literally my specialty.
I really appreciate you taking the time to stand up for us and shine a light on the harm that's done by "jokes" like Dave's. Your continued support of our community is why I'm here.
Do you take issue with his racial jokes based on stereotypes, that perpetuate those same stereotypes?
@@bantuboi3131do you ? Also I've seen him make Fun of Gay Boxing and Gay KluKluksKlan and I found a problem with that too, do you? cause is that not an awful stereotype aswell?
My problem with Chapelle is that THE WHOLE REASON he walked away from his show was because he felt like he was being used and made fun of AS A MINORITY. He felt the people around him were used to PUNCH DOWN at black people. He came off as someone who had integrity because he valued himself and his position as an influential black person more than a massive paycheck.
For him to continuously attack OTHER MINORITIES demonstrates how selfish and myopic he has become.
The joke about his attacker wielding a “knife that identified as gun” was funny because it makes sense, BUT it would’ve been a LOT funnier if he hadn’t been making fun of trans people the whole time prior to that joke.
Question: how is the lgbtq community as a gender minority suppsed to be held with the same weight as a racial minority?
Im not asking this contentiously. Just trying to understand the thought process?
@@rcdoubleu the thought process is that he didn’t like being othered so it seems like he should be more empathetic to trans people being othered.
A lot of people who defend Dave always say “it’s just a joke” and “he’s right though” in the same sentence.
Exactly
It is just a joke and he feels it's his right. That's a fact.
Oh no…..how terrible….?
Two things can be right tho..
@@samspade8830 nothing a comedian says is just a joke. if you think that, you don't understand comedy writing very well.
If those bigoted towards the marginalized group(s) your joke targets, are the ones most likely to laugh rather than those of the marginalized group, your joke is the problem... not those telling you the joke is a problem. That moment when people cheered about the bathroom bill, it should have opened Dave's eyes a bit. Clearly it didn't. *Great video as always FD. Really enjoy your balanced takes on a variety of topics and issues.*
Very well-put.
@@BasedGoddie You mean when he literally made fun of racism and or racists? If that offended you, and or you felt targeted there, well you may want to keep that to yourself.
@@BasedGoddie Also, if you decide to reply again, hopefully you'll do better than whataboutism. Good luck.
@@BasedGoddie You do know that the white fans of Chapelle laugh at his jokes right? And that most white people who aren't racist also laugh at jokes about racism and racists? Because we all are affected by racism one way or another, white people who aren't racist can laugh at a joke about racists because "lol dumb racists" or "look how i used to be, how silly! glad i'm not like that now but how true it used to be!" or even "wow i didn't even know that was racist but it's so obvious now and it's funny because i didn't realize before" etc etc.
And finally, white people aren't marginalized due to their whiteness??? so making a joke about whiteness doesn't punch down/negatively affect your audience's understanding of an already misunderstood minority? like bffr bro
I couldnt pinpoint exactly why I was uneasy watching the special. I think it's because not only Dave come back on what he said in the closer in the first few minutes, but also because he's showing he isn't willing to educate himself. As someone who had him as a model for a great lenght of time, this is really heartbreaking
Dude, you are losing out on some of the funniest jokes from 2023 because of your bigotry
Bro what ? I watched the special, I laughed during the special, I just said I was uneasy because Dave isn't acting like an adult and owning his mistakes
@@TommyLikeTom A whiny millionaire hectoring his audience for an hour is not my idea of "the funniest jokes of 2023"
@@nsinghizeSeriously. That's a super fucking low bar right there.
@@TommyLikeTomdefinition of bigotry
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
So…what particular group is Dave a part of, dude?
Also, it’s just not funny. It’s very very hard to be funny when something is so predictable and you e heard it a million times. I don’t find fart jokes funny anymore and it’s not because they are offensive. It’s because they are dull and played and lazy
my biggest issue with Chappelle now is that his specials are less about making comedy and more just angry and mean-spirited reactions to him being criticized about angry and mean-spirited jokes he's made. He's really one of the smartest, funniest, and insightful comedians of all time and he's just reduced himself to being an angry guy who keeps doubling down.
Exactly. It feels like all Chappelle's latest specials are just him reacting to valid criticism of his mean-spirited jokes and his constant punching down. It sucks because he's truly a talented comedian and seeing him keep going down this path is a real shame.
@@TheDreamingJune it's like he chose a hill to die on and that's just where he's camped out now. I don't even know what he's trying to prove at this point
What his new special has shown me is that he’s really just too sensitive even though he pretends to be above it all. He’s butthurt (no pun intended) that people would dare to criticize his comedy. He’s often dismissed critics of his content as being out of touch with true artistry or whatever pretentious shit he says to belittle peoples opinions. But he himself is soooo sensitive that he’s actually made his new artistic identity entirely around bullying anyone who disagrees with him smh
Artists are sensitive how is that surprizing?
@@afrosamourai400that's a dumb comment. Artists require thicker skin than almost anyone else.
@kylezo Actually, artists are usually the most sensitive people. Like, every artist, no matter the art, is sensitive as hell.
@@afrosamourai400 it’s not surprising, it’s just weak to let it affect you to the point that you actually change your art to revolve around the criticism instead of just continuing to create your art. Now your art is no longer your pure expression but a defensive reaction to the audience? That’s corny
@@Beep.Boop.Bop. Nah, that's art.
I was born in LA but moved to a small, predominantly white town in a different state when I was in elementary school. When I was a Junior in high school I was at the library, and on a whim, decided to check out Baldwin's "The Fire Next Time". And beyond just being a great collection of essays, that was the first book to make me really understand just how powerful art could be. Baldwin managed to put a name to so many thoughts and experiences that, until then, I didn't have a way to describe or reason about. I became hooked and went on to devour Ellison, Haley, Fanon, and others. Now this was back in the early days of the internet, when AOL and Netscape were still big players. What I knew about was limited to what I learned in school or heard on tv and neither of them were about to recommend "The Wretched of the Earth". And today I was sitting here, many years later, listening to your video in the background while I work and it ocurred to me just how lucky (in this respect, at least) young people are now to have easy access to voices like yours, and through you, so many others. So thanks for doing what you do man, and I hope you keep doing it.
P.S.
I don't know if you take requests for videos, but if you do I'd love to hear your thoughts on James Baldwin
Thank you for mentioned the "I'm not gonna make trans jokes anymore" lie; great video. I really wish Dave Chapelle could stop thinking about us so much and just go back to making funny, insightful comedy.
Honestly I'm so tired of groups or just individuals having to accept being the butt of jokes no matter what or they're labeled as too sensitive.
As somebody black who grew up around a lot of white people, I had to deal with a lot of racism disguised as jokes. And any time I expressed that those jokes weren't funny or made me uncomfortable, I was told I'm too sensitive. At the end of the day, we're not required to find your jokes funny. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to just acknowledge that they're not entitled to make fun of other people for traits they can't control. And they're definitely not entitled to controlling how those people respond to their "jokes".
I'd just like to say that i love your content, it comforts me deeply, even though the contents of them are the negativity felt from bigotry it gives me hope, in australia black people aren't recognised and nearly no one knows of our existence, and if they do it's a trivial piece of recognition of "The ones the british colonised and enslaved".
watching your content and seeing similar issues in the US as with Australia gives me hope that someday i could spread awareness like you do.
Sorry for the poor grammar and punctuation English isn't my first language.
@@DrixPunkdon't worry, your English is better than that of a lot of native-speaking Americans 😏 you got this.
@@DrixPunk Every time someone appologises for their poor English because it's not their first language, I find it's far better than that of many Americans who *only* speak English who I encounter online! You are no exception.
Just do it. Write it all out first, so as to organise your thoughts, and then discuss it with people whose opinions you respect, even though you might not always agree. Why? Because people will disagree with you. And you have to test your arguments by stress testing them. And in stress testing them you will confront the strengths and the weaknesses in your perspective and know what counter-arguments you'll get, and work out your reply. Then if you feel upto it, then make videos about it. You don't have to put them up. Practice and see if that works for you. If it does, then you can consider TH-cam. It's hard work, and it can be a tough hamster wheel.
This guy FD is getting tiresome. What is the endgame for this man? Raise generations to pass on to the generation that follows a never ending sense that they are oppressed and that no matter how much society changes for the better they should always feel that things are getting worse? What a way to live. This is truly his profession. But this sort of cross generational pessemism has real consequences in terms of how people view their life experiences.
Chapelle and JK Rowling have a lot in common. Talented creators who are very opinionated about their own group identity (black or women respectively), cannot stand being told they are wrong so they make it their entire public persona
Who chooses public admission of errors over their tribal allegiances?
But how are they wrong for their group? For an outside party that wants the benefits of their group, it is not the same thing.
What you keep demanding is that you can pretend to be my family and demand entry into my house. We are not family, and even if we were, they couldn't even make those demands.
@@jaccl4539 I mean that they conflate their dislike of trans politics as being justified by their own marginalized group status.
But really my main complaint is that Chapelle's trans jokes just arent very good. 'Jim Carrey is an actor also Trans people make me uncomfortable' yeah great 'Lgbtxyzabc' wow really groundbreaking stuff Dave
Yes, but the problem lies in making the same mistake you accuse others of-disliking how another group makes a claim about your own group.
Again, it doesn't make them wrong for their group.
You not liking the joke or liking it doesn't change that.
Today, I don't like a joke, which doesn't mean it's wrong or wrong for the group.
You don't enjoy it and disagree with the consequences, and that's fine. What does that have to do with them or their group?
I just find it odd because you make the same claim, which you find is in error.
@@octosalias5785
@@octosalias5785 You not liking Dave's trans jokes is subjective though. No one really cares that your sense of humor is too sophisticated for Dave Chappelle and his delivery. Let people laugh at what they want to laugh at. Pluck your feelings.
"if you're trying to be offensive, don't get upset when you offend people" THIS THIS THIS THIS im stealing this forever
Judging by Dave's comedy, he doesn't get upset: he gets even comedically.
Just like “y’all” steal everything else so go right ahead
@@vegannn7178 you are doing the most to do the absolute least. Touch some grass.
@@snakesnoteyes Stop using AAVe thanks
@@vegannn7178 Stop using AAVE or what’s going to happen if they don’t stop?
HOW have I never seen your videos?
This piece was EXCELLENT.
Subscribed.
Bonus: Mention of the Clint "I HAVE A BOW" scene. A+
Have we ever seen an artist so determined to waste their talent? It’s almost like he knows he’s wasting it.
That British who wrote for friends, and some other hit tv shows. He got into the transphobia brain rot. His wife divorced him, his kids don’t like him, nobody wants to work with him, a company even offered him $500,000 for work as long as he just shut up in the process of it being live on Broadway and while they’re working on it. He wouldn’t even have to work. He couldn’t do it and now he’s saying he’s poor and in debt. 💀
@@Weeniehutnurseyou're talking about Graham Linehan, one of the best comedy writers of the last 40 years. He wrote Father Ted and The IT Crowd and has contributed to many other classic comedy workings. He had nothing to do with Friends. Also, he's Irish. Not British. Also he was unfairly dog piled for having the opinion that maybe there's a bigger, more nuanced discussion to be had around gender politics and the whole trans argument, rather than being labeled a bigot the second you try and ask a question about it. Thankfully he's beginning to find work again as people have started to realise that maybe he had a point.
@@DuggyDarkoNo, he wished harm on trans people and compared them to Nazis. He wasn’t simply “asking questions”. If he was, he would’ve seen the good-faith answers and understood how he was wrong. Instead, he’s addicted to being a victim. He’s turned it into a career, parading around as a target of cancel culture while ignoring the violent, transphobic things he’s said and the dangerous people he’s promoted over the years.
Also his comedy sucks. His shows are the UK equivalent of Chuck Lorre. At least Chappelle has talent, making it more frustrating he’s gone down the same path.
It's a "waste" because he doesn't employ his comedy in support of your prejudices.
Waste?How is he wasting it?I love the specials and plenty others love them.He ain’t missing a step
It’s like that one episode of SpongeBob where he keeps making “squirrels are dumb” jokes. Even though it hurts sandy, his squirrel friend, he’s getting laughs from people who don’t find his other jokes funny which he values more. Idk why Dave just doesn’t make fun of himself for not being educated.
😳 Wow, I do see parallels.
Dave Chapelle = SpongeBob confirmed!
Because his trans jokes are hilarious.
Your logic is flawed. He makes jokes about white people that blacks find entertaining. About rich people that poor people find entertaining. About poor people that rich people find entertaining. About Latino people that Asians find entertaining. About Asians that white people find entertaining. And about LGBTQ, which the dominant society finds entertaining.
They all can be considered offensive, but none of them stem from or can be considered not educated.
You finally taking your turn and being offended doesn't change that.
You finally not finding it funny doesn't mean it isn't.
Being sensitive now doesn't mean someone is not sensitive about everything you laughed at before.
@@jaccl4539 huh so i guess no one has any busness being offended about anything if they weren't offended about everything? also: if you are educated about trans issues, you can make actually funny jokes both trans and non trans people will laugh at. see jurden's 'i dont make fun of non-binary people because i dont want barista's to spit in my coffee' joke.
Honestly, as a trans person, you might be the only cis creator on youtube that I fully trust to talk about transness and transphobia. You never miss!
Have you seen the Majority Report? They strongly advocate for trans rights and routinely destroy anti trans nonsense.
Another one you should look for is Steve Shives. I love his stuff.
@@eduardosantana8300They trust him with topics about trans issues and culture, no need to overcomplicate. And no language police (aka uhhhh its not phobia because we arent scared of you trans "people"🤓) please.
wow you use big words you just be so smart 🤩
@@eduardosantana8300 trans isnt genderfluid or all those other things, trans is transitioning from male to female or the other way around, so theres really not that much to misunderstand. And phobia can come out of hatred and bigotry too, fear is not the only way of phobia.
A simple, non-offensive trans joke/story about myself I like to tell:
When I was in middle school it came time for me to pick out what deodorant I wanted. I was going through them all, smelling them, and eventually chose an Old Spice one.
When I put it in the cart, my mother grimaced and said, "eugh, do you want to smell like Grandpa Mike, or what?"
I went "oh god, no," and quickly put it back. When I switched to a floral scent, she didn't throw a fuss. For years, it completely flew over my head that it was about the ~gender~ of the scent; I just thought we were bonding over how much we fuckin hated Grandpa Mike
Signifier has existential crisis realizing Chapelle's show stopped being good 20 years ago, stares into the abyss. I feel you, man.
What are you talking about? There are plenty of sketches that hold up as well as they did when they first aired. Chappelle's Show didn't all of a sudden stop being good because it's the current year.
That part made me laugh too, I can relate all too well.
I haven't watched his special. I have, however, watched most of my friends and family pretty much shrug their shoulders at transphobia and transphobic bills. My wife basically gets on me about being upitty if I spend too much time talking publicly about the issue on social media (of course that is pretty much the extent of my activism, which is not good...I know). But, the complete lack of "give-a-bleep" is discouraging for me (chet wm). I cannot begin to imagine the effect on the trans community.
You're so brave, precious, and righteous.
If your friends & family don't care about trans people & you try to help them understand, you're doing something, & it's appreciated.
@@DeathPetalArt Not caring about trans ≠ wishing them harm. In other words, not caring does not lead to harm.
@pendejo6466 If you tolerate the harm towards them you are leading to it as well
As a white trans person, I found your video on Dave Chapelle both incredibly affirming and supportive but also really informative on the intersectionality of black trans issues and how Chapelle excludes black queer people
Bill burr’s black people jokes are solid because of how he sets up the jokes. He tells anecdotes about spending time with black people that are relatable and honest. When tells a story to the effect of, “I was hanging out with these black dudes, and they were clowning my wardrobe”, that sounds and feels like a real experience. Then it leads perfectly into the punchline of the joke “Black dudes with dirty sneakers scare the fuck out me” which is hilarious from the perspective of a white guy. If he just dropped that line with no context it would feel racist, but since he paints a picture of being immersed in black fashion culture, it makes the subversion and rejection of that culture the thing that scares him instead of the blackness of the dude himself. Dave…. Doesn’t do that..
Good Morning Mr. Signifier
Glad to know I wasn't the only one started off my morning with his video!😂
Just wanna say it's super refreshing to see cis creators talk about trans issues. You're correct that most cis people learn about trans people from other cis people, so taking the time to discuss them honestly does a lot of good.
In your original video you explained that trans issues are part of black issues, and urged your audience to care about trans issues because trans folks deserve to be free of transphobia the same way black folks deserve to be free of racism. And it made me realize I probably don't care about racism and black perspectives as much as I care about transphobia and LGBTQ issues because racism doesn't affect me like transphobia does. I want to rectify that negligence and I'm going make an effort this year to start learning about black issues and racial injustice. Thanks for giving me the spark.
Hey good on you for realizing that - and especially for reacting by being like "...and I'm gonna do something about it" vs. burying your head in the proverbial sand.
@@moxiebombshell Thanks! But don't give me too much credit, you missed the last four years of me burying my head in the sand and the six years before them that I was anti-BLM. 😅 It's just a new chapter in a long journey.
@@apollofell3925 but thank fuck it sounds like it's in the right direction 😅
My past was more insidiously fucked up, in that I liked to fancy myself "one of the good ones" but in reality was blind to my own low-key racist and transphobic BS. After George Floyd, I was on Twitter and started following a bunch of really powerful Black women and queer and trans folks, and practiced keeping my mouth shut and just listening... I still have some embarrassing AF thing I said 10 years ago pop into my head and make me cringe so hard I just about turn inside out, but at least I'm not making too many new ones these days.
@@moxiebombshell yeah I was indoctrinated into christian nationalism as a kid, it's a long road. We should both be proud of the progress we've made, but not so proud we get complacent about what still needs to be done.
White middle class trans guy here. Before I came out at 45, I considered myself a progressive, anti-racist, all that stuff. But it was all very theoretical. Then I started to experience transphobia ranging from snide comments to slurs and attempted attacks. And boy did it open my eyes. I'm not going to say that I understand what it is to live in our society as a person of colour, but I can now see through an open door versus peaking through a keyhole. And I too am trying to do better, get more involved and listen more closely. All marginalized people share many of the same battles and we can only succeed together!
Completely agree with everything you said. And as a former Dave stan, at this point, I'm more disappointed in hardcore Dave fans (not just the new MAGA crowd he's courting) for not being able to see through this and be objective about his work.
Media literacy is a real bitch. We consume media in an entirely detached fashion with no regard for its veracity nor its effect on our own attitudes.
I swear, what's going on with Dave is a few steps away from becoming Kanye. This dude has bought into his own ego and self importance so much that it's reaching astronomical levels.
Both objectively and subjectively my end pov is antithetical to yours/this video. with the same info, I reach the opposite conclusion. I think that's okay; we need balance to get anywhere in this world.
@@kiltedcripple!!! This!
That's a quotable.
the people who can’t see through this are the people who have the same sentiments about trans people
I’m just so tired and wanna be left alone. Why can’t everyone just stop attacking trans people.
Denying someone's existence or identity isn't "having a different opinion". It's erasure.
Exaggerating and equating opinions to "erasure" is trite and self-serious theater.
Yup👻
How can you deny someone existence when you are making jokes about their existence?
@@afrosamourai400 Why do bigots pretend to be so dumb when they think they're so smart?
@@angie99656 maybe you should answer the question..
If people are angered by the stuff enough to rage in comments yet continue to come back each video (thus making ya ad revenue)…. Does that make you an accidental fin dom? And they must have a masochist streak to keep coming back…
But jokes aside, doesn’t it make the most sense to examine and question the very media/figures we enjoy (or have in past/occasionally enjoyed)? Criticism of something ya already dislike doesn’t challenge oneself or really provide growth/ changes in perspective. If I had to list the problematic figures/creative works I’ve enjoyed (or even sometimes still do) I would be here all day leaving a novel length list. But when I do engage with that sort of stuff it’s with a nuanced awareness born of hindsight (ie Chapelle Show still makes me giggle but I can’t shake the awareness my simply existing as a trans person is apparently a joke to him) or a larger awareness of the world and its vast potential lived experiences….
F.D... Fin Dom Signifier...🤔
@@signifiedbsides1129 damn I never even questioned the F.D…. 😅
This is just another form of censorship. You can disagree with someone and also not give a fuck about their income. Unless it's outright dangerous, I'll watch and engage with whatever I like, regardless of capitalism.
@@azuredystopia3751 How do you feel about financially supporting someone that you hate?
@@signifiedbsides1129 you mean like constantly complaining about Dave’s jokes then continuing to watch only to be upset all over by the same kind of jokes
One of the most interesting things about Chapelle's comedy is that he started off going after the white person with one black friend thing. From Closer special he is now the cis dude with one trans friend.
Holy Christ, the point about how people would have gone crazy if a comedian was joking about black people the way Chapelle did about trans people was the first thing I thought. He’s not bigoted; he has a trans friend.
"Why are you trying to cancel him for having an opinion!?"
5 seconds later
"These snowflakes can't handle when their views are being critiqued!"
You might be one of the smartest people on YT... as a 53 year old white male, I appreciate the education you continue to provide to people about our deeply engrained racial issues in this complicated country
Bruh, you're just saying that. If this guy is the smartest, then I'm the biggest A-hole.
Education? Maybe.
I love Fiq, he's great. He has a real knack for digging into challenging or complex topics of all sorts and making them accessible and also a lot more comfortable to be present for and engage with. What's telling for me is that I'm literally almost the complete opposite of the audience he's said he's kind of aiming for (he mostly talks to younger (usually straight/not queer) black guys, and I'm a white AFAB nonbinary person. I am *not* who he's usually talking to, but I still love to listen because of how much I learn (not having to worry about surprise bigotry popping up in his videos is also a nice perk)
@BrickDaniels-qu7bz based on some of your other comments, I don't doubt that you're one of them.
@@spaceylacey83One of what? An issue? What's your solution to the problem that is me?
@@BrickDaniels-qu7bzyou couldn’t even summon the energy to read your original comment again and see what they were referring to?
Once he started the Jim Carrey Man on The Moon bit I was like “Here comes the trans joke”
Chapelle literally said he agrees with JK Rowling in the first show. The transphobic jokes could’ve just been in poor taste if we at least knew he was well meaning but he made an actual stance. Convenient how people say it’s just jokes but when he wasn’t joking, they don’t talk about it.
I really used to like him 😭. Shit is sad to witness.
Then you were never a fan.
Whoever commented, I can't see your comment... Probably for the best, God bless. 🙏🏽
10:43 so he really is mentoring Matt Rife. Rife has that same exact handicap joke except he shapes it differently. Saying handicap people have it worse than trans people because at least they can get up and walk out the room.
I remember hearing Chris Rock say he had to retire his joke "there's 2 types of black people. There's black people and there's ......"
He said he stopped doing that joke because he found that bigots were using the baseline of that joke to "justify" their racism.
Like "I like black people, just not ....."
And that I feel is the issue. When your art leaves you, it's no longer yours, it's associated with you forever, but it's taken, clipped, translated, and used by everyone in various different ways.
So, a famous comedian making jokes at the expense of already marginalized groups with a thick layer of ignorance on top of it. It gives actual bigots more ammo to continue their assult on people they don't like, now with the shield of "it's just a joke so en so said" wink. The jokes are basically giving them confirmation bias.
This, in the long run, will actually hurt Dave more than anyone else, as he will slowly start to be associated with those groups, and those groups will begin to make up his fan base. Which I'm sure he doesn't want.
That said, nobody should be "protected" or "off limits" from jokes and comedy. But like was said, the jokes need to have layers and knowledge of the topic at hand. Otherwise it's just feeding ignorance to the maliciously ignorant.
Sounds like wishful thinking. Sounds like you're saying "jokes are jokes only when they're constructed to my prejudices."
"he will slowly start to be associated with those groups, and those groups will begin to make up his fan base. Which I'm sure he doesn't want. "
Apparently he does if they pay him well
That joke was a very poignant criticism of the American black community. Honestly a needed joke
@seakermac5800 What it was meant to be sometimes gets lost with what it becomes.
Take Pepe the frog. A character in a web comic that became the symbol of bigoted trolls. The original artist tried everything to get people to stop using his innocent creation as an avatar for Nazism, racism, etc. Before personally dropping the character so as not to be associated with what it became.
*hug* Thanks for supporting us.
Man I went back and rewatched your previous Chapelle video, and you were not lying lol it is literally, word for word relevant to his current special.
okay i’ve been sitting on this for years, but i lived in yellow springs for a while and my mom tended bar at dave’s favorite spot in town, that he would stay late at all the time, and they talked a lot for the short time we lived there.
i came out as trans that same year and uh, i KNOW she talked to him about it. i Know this. i don’t have anything else to add it’s just weird to know that when dave chapelle pictures his weird fake image of an all-white trans community in his head, i am in the chorus
A smart person defends what they say. A dumb person defends their right to say it.
Smh. Some people will never learn. Thank you for your insightful content. Also, your hair is GIVING!