ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ย. 2022
- Is your deck just spinning its wheels? Taking a lot of game actions, but not progressing the game to an end point? Let's discuss some decks that might need a little extra help closing out the game!
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On Dungeon & Initiative: I bought the big versions of these cards so there is space and bigger font to read, sleeved them and I bring multiple actual D&D Minis that are distinct. At the start of the game everyone picks a mini and we can use them as markers to walk them through the dungeon. I am bringing everything and try to make it the least annoying to everyone. I found people do dig the Minis.
We all use our own markers, but yes I have a shiny initiative for the table and a giant Undercity for the middle of the table. As to the durdly nature. having enough venture in the deck to get it moving when you don't have Sefris, and then making it do anything, takes a lot of deck space... I think I revamped most of those cards to almost all the Initiative cards in Abzan just because the Undercity as a dungeon just does more. But still, that doesn't leave a lot of room for actual engine cards or wincons.
I don't have container space for the big cards, but I do bring my own to share.
I really recommend looking into the Benny Smith Rafiq dungeons deck for more ideas. I tweaked his list a little and I don't find I durdle too often just because Rafiq is there if I don't have anything else.
I was taking a hiatus from Magic last year and I'm just now catching up on the podcast. I was so pleasantly surprised that y'all covered my Stat Challenge! Very surreal moment to be minding my business doing dishes when I hear my name in the video. Thank you so much! Sorry my comment took so long (but I guess turnabout is fair play 😂). Love what y'all do!
Am I not Durdley enough for the durdle club?! Durdle, durdle……
Durdle durdle
Sad that that line was probably the best part of that movie
@@TaIathar there are rumors about that scene. The urban legend is that is was filmed on September 11, 2001.
Durdle, Durdle
Dana : "With my Djeru deck I found how to win by keeping my eyes open"
(>_
As a person who loves and collects Meandering Towershell, I am very happy to have heard his shout out at the end.
Would love to hear you all talk more about how to fix the problems of winning without relying on infinite combos. My Yorion deck sure needs help with that
Great discussion on the blink stuff. I always found that archetype really cool, but never built one because I didnt want to be that guy to durdle a lot and achieve nothing. (my friend had the aminatou deck, which did exactly that and never won, it was just boring to play with and against). I found Tivit in my binder, built a suboptimal version with stuff I had and it blew me away. Now it's upgraded and it's one of my best and favorite decks. Here's why:
- you already want to blink your commander, so running other creatures with good etb is good
- it wins in so many different ways:
- commander damage with nettlecyst and cranial plating (6/6 flying ward 3 commander turns out to be good), also giving it double strike is already something you want to do for double trigger
- artifactocrats stuff: marionette master, agent of the iron throne
- artifact payoffs like tezzeret or making a huge kappa cannoneer
- probably my favorite: animating my 50 million artifacts with rise and shine or cyberdrive awakener
Thanks for the video guys, great as always!
Good lord that’s the best wedding joke I’ve ever heard! Nice one Dana
I feel personally attacked - I'm not even halfway through the video and they've already called out 3 of my favourite commanders (Ranar, Thantis, Lynde). 😆
I live for the dad jokes and joey's Reactions to them
Yooo, Dana's, "one way to make cabbage better is to put it out in the sun" got me 😂😂😂
Wohooo what a nice start to the weekend :)
My Brago has a strong token maker theme, with creatures like Captain of the Watch for beat down in addition to the typical blink value stuff
Bruh my Shorikai deck takes forever to win since I don't run combos. Maybe I should, but I wanna win with the fantasy of a giant mech army. You haven't lived until you've cast a giant Brilliant Restoration or Dance of the Manse and taken over the game with immense value.
It's funny. Earlier this year I was working on a Brago dungeons deck, but I set it aside specifically because it was going to be so obnoxiously durdley.
Thank you for the great content!
I feel very called out. I own and love playing two of the three decks in the thumbnail. Gavi and muldrotha
The majority of this discussion should be why Azorious doesn't have fun win cons.
Nah not while dovescape exists
Aura Theif and Enchanted Evening is fun with con
@@facelessgames94 yeah that’s a great one aswell!
AKA The reason every white precon has Zetalpa, Primal Dawn. Big. Dumb. Can close out a game, but not too fast.
So glad I happened to be watching my screen at 12:52 to see Joey's headphones leap out of his ears XD
Hear me out... All mono green decks should be running Liquimetal Torque. Most of the time, it's a 2 mana rock. Occasionally though, it can turn a creature (which green struggles to deal with) into an artifact (which green is very good at dealing with).
Good shout. Had a game where my Gemrazer stagnated.
Toski appreciates your suggestion and will remember you when he ascends
All is a very powerful word. There are tons of decks out there. Not every card belongs in every deck. I think I have 2 decks that I don't even run sol ring.
Sauerkraut is - FOR THE RECORD - fine.
LOVE Thran Turbine. Works magnificently in my Muzzio artifact deck.
Liking for the fun banter at the beginning of the stats
Love to see a video on commander that win in a way not intended. For example I put together jund goblins and found out that it has a combo finisher.
This is why my sefris deck is the only deck I own with an infinite combo that was totally intentional and I did not find by accident while goldfishing with it
Another sefris player here, would be very thankful if you were to share that combo
Acererak
@@HawkofJudgment its a little convoluted, and requires a hell of a lot of set up before hand, so i'll try my best to explain as well as i can.
you need to have sefris and radiant solar on the battlefield and you need to be in a second room of lost mine of phandelver (note, always make sure you go through dark pool, otherwise you won't kill your opponents. unless you have like a zulaport out, but that requires more set up). you need to have sun titan and any three mana creature that enters and ventures into the dungeon (my go to is nadar) in your graveyard. And finally, you need to have a clone-type creature in your hand (my go to on this being phantasmal image, since its only 2 cmc).
that was just the set up, and now for the actual infinite.
play the clone card as a copy of radiant solar. you'll get two solar triggers from this (one from the original seeing the clone enter, and one form the clone entering). you get to venture twice (again, make sure to go through dark pools). when you complete the dungeon, sefris will trigger. return sun titan to the battlefield. three triggers happen. the two radiant solars see titan enter and each want to venture. sun titans own etb will trigger as well. it doesn't really matter how you resolve them, but i usually do the titans first just so i can present a loop faster. the titan will birng back your choice of a 3 drop creature that ventures on etb. three more ventures onto the stack. resolve four of them to complete another dungeon. sefris trigger. in response, sack the titan and 3 cmc venture creature with your free sack outlet. target sun titan with the sefris reanimation and repeat. as long as you have more cards in your library than your opponents have life, you drain your opponents life and you win.
i told you it was convoluted and took massive set up before hand. i dont really rely on it, but its still a cool combo i found on accident. hope i made it some what easy to understand lol
edit: here's my decklist too if you want to have a peak. it's by no means optimized, but i have a lot of fun with it
www.moxfield.com/decks/FgA9ucZz0UamfP14vEBK7A
@@craigandrews7544 i dont actually run acererak, but i definitely should
@@pachydude4663 Thanks a lot for explaining, this seems like a really overpowered combo when you get it going. I'll try to include this one in my deck at some point
I just made a monoU "Cosima" deck with a theme of "water, sea, floods" - revolving around turning enemy lands into islands, then simulating the tides coming and going by bouncing and replaying my own lands with Soratami, earning value with landfall and similar stuff...
And i feel called out by this video 😄
my only win condition is castle ardenvale and thats how i like it
For my brago deck I managed to fix the can’t win problem by blinking creatures that make tokens on etb and playing sort of azorious tokens
That’s what I’m realizing I’ll have to do with my Brago deck. After 3-4 games of insane value that everyone is scared of for no reason as it leads to no payoff, I realize I just need actually threaten the board to win. 😂
brago goes hard with tokens. especially with panharmonicon in play
Myr Battlesphere is one of my wincons in the deck, also that one card that makes indestructible phyrexian golems
Splicer stuff, make em 4/4, firstrike, indestructible off like 3 different splicer cards. Super awesome
Aetherworks Marvel is a beast in Teysa Karlov too
One of the first decks I feel I built perfectly was also really durdley, Oloro. It ended up durdling so hard I had to add a couple of combo wins and tutors just to be able to close out games.
When you get to pull of the strionic resonator combo with brago and dont win the turn, you propably either have really really bad luck or more likely you havent build your deck right
So the combo again bc it wasnt really well explained is to flicker strionic resonator and enough nonland permanents that make more than 2 mana (mostly artifacts).
COMBO: So with the trigger from brago on the stack you activate resonator, copy it and with the copied ability target your board including the resonator. After the copied ability is resolved the strionic resonator will be flickered back so its untapped like all those mana rocks. Tap them, float the mana and do it again. If you have a single permanent on the board that etbs to draw you a card, you can draw your whole deck. And there are a bunch of those which you can play.
So thats infinite mana, infinite nonland permanent etbs and infinite carddraw. How can you win with that? Remember you're still in combat so you cannot cast stuff at sorcery speed. So we have to get clever.
HOW TO WIN: Blue Sun's Zenith is a instant for XUUU which lets target player draw X card and then it shuffles itself back into your library. Cast that with infinite mana targeting your opponent. They instantly mill out bc they cannot draw as many cards. Shuffle it back. Resolve more copied abilities from resonator to draw zenith and do it again.
You can also play other artifacts that let you deal dmg to a opponent on etb or let them mill.
So thats how you win in instant speed
when I play my Lynde Cheerful Tormentor deck I always warn the table that I have no idea how I win with it.
I think my durdle deck was Roon blink, unfortunately the fix was axing Roon itself because it was essentially 7 mana and a turn cycle for a single blink and most game no one would let Roon stay on the board because their imagination got the better of them of what is a really weak commander imo so most games were spent ramping over and over again to recast Roon every turn past turn 5 and eventually lose without actually *really* doing anything, the new commanders are Livio partnered with Thrasios and it works so much better, the deck itself was good but having 2 cheap commanders that out value Roon in their own ways was the fix I needed to make the deck truly work
Other thoughts are thank god Im not the only one on Thran Turbine, love that card & Sefris takes a lot of steps to play right but definitely isnt a durdle deck, if you're completing a dungeon 3 times in a turn you should be either setup to win next turn or winning that turn
The most durdley deck I've built was a cedh Selvala Explorer Returned deck. Infinite parleys requires a long resolution with everyone involved and keeping track of mana at the same time makes it like a team effort to resolve once it's going infinite parleys. Someone could draw interaction so it has to be played out one by one and even if its not going infinite and parleying over and over it is very durdley.
Absolutely on point about Gavi nest Warden! I really struggled to find something to fucking end the game with. Yeah I got a couple dino kitties, everybody's gonna be so afraid of four or five vanilla 2/2s...
I settled on mass protection spells to make them unblockable but in the end I really settled pn taking the deck apart.
My Sefris deck could grind through dungeons and that sometimes took some time - people hated it and I focused it for combo win.
Now it has few infinite combos and can win out of nowhere - people hate it even more.
As a fellow sefris player that's having the same problem, care to share some of those combos sir?
@@Randy-McRanderson Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Viscera Seer + any of ETB Dungeon creatures for infinite dungeon drain or Agent of Treachery for infinite stealing. Also any cool ETB effect with Peregrine Drake and Deadeye Navigator.
My Kykar Wind's Fury is a manual storm deck(Thousand Year Storm, Swarm Intelligence, Veyran) with some X spells and draw payoffs - Niv, Psychosis, etc.
I would classify my Gerrard, Weatherlight Hero deck as a durdley commander. It does has ways to win the game through combing, but there is a possibility of the combo to fizzle. The deck has the possibility of spending 30+ minutes to resolve one turn. It's built around eggs, cheap artifacts that have effects when they enter or die, and bring those artifacts back. I guess the deck put all it's eggs into one basket. Win cons are Pyrite Spellbomb, or Walking Ballista. The hard part is if I don't get the pieces then it doesn't win and I will scoop.
I love gavi. I went all-In on cycling and put a few copy spells. Draw out a lot of my deck with cycling and fill my graveyard, Copy the copy spells multiple times and copy zenith flair for like 6 copies of it on the stack for massive damage. Or approach of the second sun as an alternate win-con. Locus god is also great with all the card draw. And if I wanna be mean, decree of silence and solemnity to shut out the whole table
I intentionally leave out infinites and “I play it and I win” combos. I quite like “fair” top-decky value decks that try to maximise what’s on the board. I think it’s the best way of getting the most out of the inherent variance of the format. If you just pack a deck with card draw and win cons you may as well play constructed with how consistent your deck’s intended to be.
I would definitely say there's a difference between cards that win the game now, and cards that could win the game. I like those fair value decks myself, but making sure you have a way to move the game forward definitely helps. And I've certainly had value decks where at the end of the day I look at it and have to go "This deck needs more top end, just so it has real impact on the game."
I have a Ranar blink deck and I'd argue that it's less durdley than Brago since you can go with a spirit sub theme. Throw in a few heraldic banner and coat of arms effects and you can usually close out games pretty easily.
I play Sefris, is durdle heavy, but I feel I play enough removal that I'm able to get through with some of my larger creatures or stall others out with removal and get into one of the infinite combos that just are really built into it
As dungeon decks go. I feel Sefris is so much more 4-part reanimator. Dungeon doesn't matter, and the discard to build towards renanimator is all so much cards that you'd want to be playing.
A real shame because when it came out I was really hoping it'd be a far more dungeon focused deck that I could jsut swap out blue for green and continue on, and it so so so wasn't that. Alas.
To me, building and playing these durdley decks is an art. You'd want to build around their main durdley theme, yet still have an 'exit button' ready whenever the game stalls for too long (mostly because of yourself). This is why I think infinite combos is an integral part of commander; it allows all of these slow and steady type decks to have an end goal to achieve while they do their durdley stuff. The trick is to balance how and when you go for the exit button win. You don't need to go for it every time, but at any moment you do have to go for it, or if by chance youre able to do it early, then step on the gas pedal.
I have both a Gavi and Sefris deck, and they're both relatively slow to get going, but when they get going the table knows I am ready to end the game real soon. For Gavi, I have an Escape Protocol combo (haha get it) that works with a lot pieces in my deck for an eventual infinite mana/draw triggers, and for Sefris I have a Radiant Solar + Clone + Sac outlet combo for infinite venture triggers, although it usually can win with big angels beatdown.
Love the content, could you guys eventually do a upping the average on tarsunri toad rider? I’ve been considering building him for a bit but the average list seems really slow
My Imoti deck has the longest turns in my collection … I do often win with it, but when I cascade into a aminatous Augery, then hit a minds desire, I see a lot of frustrated scoops.
I have no idea what Durdley stands for, so here I am, I hope I get enlightened thru this video
I brew with the wincon as the start. Then find a few synergistic cards. Lastly I pick a commander that either is the engine, outlet, lightning rod.
I made a thantis deck and my one win con was making my friends scoop. It was fun the first time. Not so much after that
Chocolate and Bacon go great together.
Also, I owned a Sevinne, the Chronoclasm deck that took lots of extra turns and only won sometimes. I've stopped playing it because it often just spins wheels.
Ew
I run a Brago deck. I do have the Strionic Resonator combo in it. I also run Cathar's Crusade to make Brago lethal.
“Value isn’t victory” is probably one of the best sayings I’ve heard in a while. Filing that away for later, thanks🎉
Although I agree, I would trade victory for value any day!
I'm working on a sniper style deck using quietus spike and swathcutter giant. Clears the board and over half their life in one swing. Other than that just giving pokers deathtouch.
For Sefris I recommend using Magister Sphinx to try to kill your opponents. It's a lot easier to kill someone with a durdly deck if they only have 10 life to work with.
My favorite commander (Meren) ended up becoming very durdly because i was using lower power main deck creatures that did very little to close out the game. now im using a more synergistic element where my top end is big and impactful and it helps make my other stuff bigger and more impactful. one example is Ohran Frost fang giving all my little one ones deathtouch so that they are more likely to connect or to take out other creatures and then combined with ogre slumlord will you block my 1/1 deathtouch which will give me another 1/1.
Anyone else watching this after today's Commander Clash where Saffron Olive durdles MTGO to death with Myrkul?
I haven't seen today's yet, but generally, they're the group I think of first and foremost when it comes to durdling.
My Glissa deck may be a little slow, but Verdurous Gearhulk and such help boost her power to kill an opponent or get more value back.
12:55 to this point, Lynde Cheerful Tormentor also fits in this exact category
Update: it got brought up later in the episode hahah!
My Atraxa Superfriends/ Fungus Tribal deck is very durdley. Lots of stuff going on, but has yet to win.
Energy commander at last with the fallout crossover!
I’ve currently got a Brago deck and I’m building a Zimome and Dina deck. God does brago take a lot of game actions without doing a whole lot. And the Zimome and Dina deck looks like it’s just gonna be a value engine in the command zone that I’ll have to find a win with card draw
"Miss AANNJE"
I see you Joey
My enchantress deck used to be very durdly until I put approach of the second sun in there
changed my brago to kodamaeast and ishai ! never looked back
I’ve had 2 Durdles in my life both for different reasons, first Zedruu. Mainly because she requires so much mana, but I did play her in an age without fires of invention so I’d like to revisit her. The second was my secret commander. I built a deck based around discarding lands with borbo as a hidden commander in a four color deck sans blue. Mainly cause I wanted land tax and wanted black for tutors for him, but because I wanted to find him so bad and something to cheat him into play the deck was very divided on top of running 45 lands and artifact ramp and other payoffs. Never gonna do a secret mander again
Osgir is my rube goldberg deck that does nothing at all for several turns.
My weirdest brew, not fun to play but interesting to build/goldfish.... Was yidris + wastenot + Nonstop wheeling.
The ENTIRE deck was tutors, free spells, or wheels (and a few cascade cards).
T5, hit with yidris cast two spells (or one cascade spell. Hit waste not + a wheel. And repeat ad nauseam. Tutor, into free spell, cascade into wheel, into free spell, into wheel, into cascade, into tutor, into wheel. 😅
Was trying to enter an infinite infinite thing, so like I said, not fun.
Oh god…. All of my decks are drudley and I didn’t even realize. Etrata… Safana/Dungeon Delver… Baba Lasaga…
I feel targeted. Now, my untap tribal deck is actually a combo deck (not with Freed from the Real though). My Muldrotha deck is Landfall, and the Blinkanimator deck combines Azorius Blink with Esper Reanimator to have 8mv monsters for the beatdown instead of just Mulldrifters.
I play thran turbine in lyzolda!!
I have a rebuttal. You called out dungeon decks and blink decks in particular for this problem. I have a deck that is both, a Dungeon/blink deck that abuses how many ETB’s cause you to venture or take the initiative. The deck has no problem closing out the game despite taking a lot of game actions, as most of my blink is reactionary and done on a players end step, allowing me to suddenly pass through whole dungeons in what seems like seconds, getting double triggers the whole way from my commander (Hama Pashar, Ruin Seeker). It’s not hard to end the game from a triple trigger on the Throne of the Dead Three from the Undercity dungeon 😂 And late game it becomes a burn deck that cycles through the tomb of Annihilation over and over to close out the last damage. This deck most plays like what it is, a dungeon-crawler rogue-like video game where every run is completely different from the last. It has gotten a reputation for being one of my stronger decks from my playgroup rather unexpectedly after I sold it as “likely to be one of my weaker decks” like I expected.
Undercity is very good. But oh gads is Radiant Solar and the OG dungeons the definition of durdle. Speed running dungeons, then taking stock afterwards and its like, I resolved multiple triggers, and honestly, none of them affected the game state at all. Augh DX
Yeah on their own they don’t amount to much more than durdling. But when you double or even triple every activation it gets a lot closer to one-sided value, and usually the only room in the dungeon that matters anyway is the last one. My turns often end with me having two gigantic hexproof creatures that both had a devastating ETB for my opponents, while sitting on 3-5 mana for flicker effects for anyone that wants to mess with me (or more dungeon venturing on the last opponents end step).
sauerkraut is similar to kimchi.... both are great pickled/fermented cabbage
Initiative is amazing
As a Brago Superfriends player I feel attacked. But you are right
And I also have a Thantis deck...
Do an "Upping the average" on Elas, il-kor, please!!!
I’ve seen players make what feels like Turing-complete durdling engines and that has to be about the worst play pattern I can think of haha. At least w stax or other hard locks we can all agree to scoop!
I also play a Durdley spellslinger muldrotha deck😂
Man I want to share my Thantis deck now...
I am very guilty of this XD I can't help it... I like pushing buttons... I love planeswalkers and artifact value engines... I've gotten better, but I was terrible about this when I first started XD
Have 2 dungeons deck. UW with tons of blink, but I win with Naru Meha infinite combo. The other one is BW with Abdel Adrial Animate dead.
I find my sefris reanimator deck to be grossly lethal
Dang it I submitted thran turbine as a challenge months ago >.>
TH-cam's been recommending a lot of dubstep remixes of the movie An Inconvenient Truth.
I guess it's just another example of TH-cam's mysterious Al Gore Rhythm.
Goldfish your deck a few times. Are you dishing damage out? Are you advancing your game plan in a timely manner?
Been doing this a lot with a rework of a dungeon/initiative deck. And looking at a goldfish of turn 7 and going... right, the stuff I have in board/hand was fine at turn 3-4, but nothing here is going to impact the game meaningfully. And I went back to dig into more cards to see what cards I had in hand at that time would have been served by a more impactful card that I would have wanted to see there.
Ashling the pilgrim is definitely a durdle master
Swap Lae'zel in for Derju. ;-)
Is competitive durdling EDH a thing? Maybe it should be. Consistent, effective durdling requires a lot of skill and concentration.
Im having issues trying to figure out how to win with my Ashnod, the Uncaring deck. It's based on artifacts and Im looking for good aristocrat style artifact cards.
Mmmm... Chocolate and bacon... Shouldn't have watched this while hungry 😂😂😂
DURDLE FOR LIFE
I swear that Thran Turbine was already on challenge the stats, am I wrong?
Yea I try to avoid my Muldrotha deck if our group is trying to play faster paced games. It’s more of a control deck with all the permanents that make creatures lose abilities like Song of the Dryads and Oko so it just cucks strong value commanders like Koma, Prossh, Yuriko etc.
commander as a format is such durdle. Therefore these are the best Commander decks!
Sauerkraut is amazing 💀
Oh, Thantis Goad is not hard to make now. It's very easy. I've got a list that's kinda aggressive.
My buddies Brago deck is miserable and ends up with everyone scooping. Adding in rishidan footpad, rishidan cutpurse, rishidan brigand, Lavinia of the tenth and other miserable return target creatures to hand ETB’s. It wins most of the time it’s played. It’s miserable.
as a brago pilot, i can consistently end the game on turn 4
That joke sure has a lot of weight to them
I Play the Gavi Cacle Deck. It is not bad at all, but it feels allways to slow compared to the power lvl of our gaming group, especially because i dont like "you win the game cards" like Approach of the Second Sun. And i invested really some Money in this Deck! but it still feels,...well "durdley" compared to my other Decks wich are able to hit the opponent directly in the face or take over control of the Borad. I wont give up on this deck, but beneath a certain point, it is really hard to increase its power lvl.
I’m just watching to find out who Durdley is
Gavi wins with Escape Protocol I think. It's a flicker deck disguised as a cycling deck.
That's the way I built mine. Blinking creatures for value and blinking opponents creatures while containment priest is out.
@@Blacklodge_Willy same!
Absolutely correct! I find Gavi is more useful as an enabler for Astral Drift/Slide and the funky free cycling triggers like Decree of Silence and Nimble Obstructionist. The cats are just a nice bonus.