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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- These cards either looked bad but became powerhouses, or looked rad but didn't deliver. This week we delve into the cards that managed to completely bamboozle our card evaluation skills.
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You actually didn't mention that Arcane Denial is insanely good at protecting your own win. Cards drawn don't matter if the next upkeep is actually the shuffle phase for the next game.
Unless they draw another counter or removal or whatever.
I’ve been including it myself. I only want two counter spells in my deck to protect combo plays. Arcane, fierce guard, and pact of negation are my main ones
Also, I think arcane denial is often superior to Counterspell in EDH because it keeps you (and the countered opponent) from falling behind the other players
Arcane denial is better than counter spell in an edh pod.
@@flukenukeem how exactly? Why would you want to keep your opponent from falling behind?
Rite of harmony is good in a heavy blink strategy.
Cards for me that overperformed:
Ghostly pilfer
Past in flames
Wrap in vigor
Lulu loyal holyphant
Drana liberator of malakir
Haughty djinn
All of the new Defilers from dominaria united!
I really wanted Relic of Legends to be any legendary permanent instead of only creatures because it would be absolutely awesome in Superfriends if that were the case but as it is its basically a weaker Honor-Worn Shaku.
Having played both Ingenious Artillerist and Reckless Fireweaver, IA is just substantially worse in play. At 3 Mana, it comes down later than I would like. I'd rather drop a piece of acceleration or a more impactful 3 drop. Also, at 3/1 it dies to a stiff breeze. It's a powerful effect that I don't want to drop to any odd Ping effect.
Kept waiting for a mention of Keen Duelist. Maybe next time. Meanwhile more card advantage and political value for me. Particularly great in decks that care about top deck manipulation (like my codie and aminatou decks) or decks that ramp hard and go for big cmc spells (like my big mana black mind flayer deck)
Ah pronouns…
The FIRST time I played Reckless Endeavor I rolled 2 12s and fell in love.
That sounds amazing
I'm glad you brought up Treasure Nabber because I remember the hype when it came out. I tired it in at least 3 decks (Saheeli, boros, Shattergang bros) and everytime I played it I've said, "man I wish I had a mana rock instead."
Play him in a sacrifice deck. 😉
@Damesanglante that's what Shattergang Brothers is, you dingdong.
@@Damesanglante hurrrrr
I run it in my Bosh, Iron Golem deck and the intent is to use people's rocks before throwing them back in their face. Good card but in niche situations
With Liquimetal Torque, Ravenform and Resculpt is a powerhouse... I started replacing my Mind Stones with Liquimetal Torque.
Another fun tech with Liquidmetal Torque is "Tower of The Magistrate" which is a land that lets you pay one to give a creature protection from artifacts. (You can also use that land to mess with equipment by making an equipped creature pro-artifact)
With Liquimetal Torque, Latulla's Orders is a powerhouse. 😉
@@alexandergartner8877 This is my favorite thing I've learned all week.
Why have I never AD my own spell? I've PTE my own creatures before... huh. I'll keep that in mind
2 mana ancestral recall is p good. If arcane denial is in my opening hand with rograhk and thrasios, I will literally counter rograhk to draw 3 every time it’s relevant that way, unless I’m holding a guild artisan in my opening hand. Also arcane denial respond with fury storm is p solid draw engine.
Video starts @5:23
thanks
Matt literally saying “ideally i would like to kill everybody” and just staring at the viewers with his ice cold blue eyes made me think he has a dark side to him 😂😂
I appreciate that you guys mention the context in which you find yourselves, because this has been an interesting look into your playgroup versus my own. I have had great success using Swift Reconfiguration as a protection spell, and a combo stopper, rather than an enabler. I also have a friend with a Hamza deck, who sold our entire group on Rite of Harmony when he used it. Sometimes, you just have to see the card strike gold in order to really see its value. A lot like Dana and Midnight Clock as well.
Speaking of striking gold and rite of harmony, i have a codie token deck that uses aura mutation and artifact mutation with rite of harmony to great effect. Its convinced me that rite of harmony is best with token decks in mind
I also like Arcane Denial because it solves the single target removal in multiplayer problem, where 1:1 trades drain your resources and put the two non-targeted players ahead. That combined with the 1U cost makes it really useful. Casting a regular counterspell is like giving your other two opponents a card, anyway.
I like Arcane denial, remand and dream fracture as expendable counterspells. Getting card back offers versatility: if you are about to miss land drop or don't have decent play for next turn you can use them very liberally as a card draw. If yo have other answer in hand you can counter big utility cards like engine cards or 2+ mana producing artifacts, big draw spells etc. If Arcane denial is only interaction in hand it can still hard counter or protect winning plays.
That's some enlightened thinking, thank you.
Ive been preaching the utility of the one drop instant speed protection spells like Tamiyos Safekeeping for a minute. Blacksmiths Skill, Professors Warning, Withstand Death, etc etc
Tamiyo's and Blacksmith's Skill in particular are necessities in aggressive decks that require a specific permanent to stick; giving it a means of removal protection from anything outside of non-destroy/damage board wipes for 1 mana is incredible.
I did the same thing as Dana. I overlooked Midnight Clock when it first came out and until someone else used it against me I thought it was trash. It’s now in just about every deck that has blue!
I put 3 of them in my decks as soon as it released, draw 7 and reshuffle all my stuff back say less!
You can only have one in edh
@@famousstranger8468 in 3 different decks
Midnight Clock is great for decks that want to dump their hands. It's like Wheel of Fortune but only for you with suspend 3 for 3 mana that pays back that investment over those turns and if you really need the cards you can speed up. Just fits so nicely with so many play patterns.
I’ll try Protection Racket in my Liesa deck. I’ve been afraid to give opponents a chance to veto my combo pieces, but in practice that deck usually wins through steady drain and some big commander attacks, and often casts one big spell a turn to minimize pain from my own commander’s trigger. So as long as I’ve got enough lands already (and I don’t need more for Liesa’s commander tax), making people drain themselves and getting an occasional card should be great.
Great deck for it. Sure it can body your combos, but if you don't need one to win then this card is absurd.
@@skyguytomas9615 yeah, 4 months later having cast it a few times, it’s very good. I’ve even had Exquisite Blood exiled off of it, had the opponent happy to pay 5 life and not make me public enemy. I didn’t mind at all, that deck doesn’t actively draw or tutor into its couple of combos, they’re pretty much incidental, and with the card advantage/life drain off Protection Racket, I can win without them just fine. The deck is really about controlling the pace and keeping the board manageable while I drain everyone out and smack them with Liesa to keep my own life up.
@@Wojtek36762 That is exactly the kind of deck I found Protection Racket to be perfect in. I was originally running it in Henzie since it came in the precon but since the cards get exiled I can't ever reanimate him and it really soured me on the card for a while. Then I made a Kaervek, the Merciless and it felt amazing. As long as it won't end your gameplan to have something exiled its a good addition. I think it just got unveiled in the wrong deck.
Midnight clock is my favorite "new" blue card. You burn through your hand without a care knowing your going to draw a full grip. If you top deck it late in the game, you can burn all your extra mana into getting those cards faster. Just a great card. I completely agree and run it in all blue decks.
As far as the Golos issue, I think part of what made him so bad was a card that wasn’t out when he was released. World Tree. It wouldn’t be nearly as powerful if you couldn’t just cast him then immediately have perfect mana fixing to activate him the next turn
The way the math works with arcane denial in a four player game is so weird, but essentially you go behind less in card advantage than you would with a normal counter spell
I feel you on the Endeavors Joey… anytime I see a card with “roll a….” I instantly swipe left cause I don’t think dice belong in Magic other than keeping track of counters haha
I knew something was afoot when he started talking about a ruler.
I cannot stress you enough, Surveyor's Scope is absolutely stupidly good for non-land ramp decks. Against a green player it is easily a rampant growth, but you can manipulate and set up it's effect by using fetches, making it fairly easy to abuse it. Also, the lands come into play untapped, so half of the time it is free, or even nets you mana. Its such a forgotten card and I bought like 8 of them thinking it would go up in price someday. Unreal.
don't forget with Toralf and a damage doubler, a single lightning bolt can basically become a one sided boardwipe followed by a player kill.
Funnily enough, even though you said "Deroche" has no pun, but you actually said "Orrin rocks!" If you translate Deroche from english to French, it translates to "of rocks". So, you made a joke by accident, good job!
I like swift reconfiguration due to it's flexibility. It can be used as pseudo removal, and protect your own dudes, but yeah it was definitely over-hyped.
I remember thinking Meren wasn't that bad when it came out because I was always getting killed first at the table. Turns out that the group I played with just had abnormally high quantities of grave hate.
If you are going to have Betterhelp as a sponsor, could you clarify if they are still a scam. This company has quite a few controversies and a generally bad reputation on YT.
Unless you have had personally good experiences with them to justify the sponsorship, I personally feel a bit dirty watching anything that has had their fingers on it.
#29 let's go baby. KEEP STAYING PAWZITIVE GUYS
Wild to me that ive lived through 2 different ban announcements that ended with me playing a stronger card. First was emrakul ban in standard. Then was golos ban in commander. Ulamog was the best hit off of aetherworks marvel and Kenrith was always the best 5 color goodstuff commander
I'm so glad someone finally put a spotlight on Toralf! I built him about 6 months ago and it's easily one of my favorite commanders i've built in years.
Love the show and the different perspectives the 3 of you offer. I normally listen on Spotify when I'm driving or doing chores. I've noticed that you guys aren't reading out what the cards do as often, particularly the last couple of episodes, and sometimes don't say the card name more than once. Is that a conscious choice to encourage more youtube views? It makes the listening experience quite frustrating. Could you consider returning to a more listener friendly format please?
I really like the Ravenform pick! 1thing you didn't mention is that, pardon the pun here, but many players simply don't see it coming because it's such an underplayed spell. In a control deck it can slow opponents down considerably because they think it's a Saw It Coming or a Doomskar and they won't commit as much to the board thinking a wipe is coming.
Treasure Nabber prevents my opponents from running away with the game every time it hits the table, it is shockingly good for me, depriving people of their mana rocks has been so effective. Especially if the mana rock has a sacrifice mode on it...
Windgraces judgement feels good early in the game cause pay five remove three things is good, but when its down to 1v1...
Looking forward to drawing protection racket in my rakdos riots deck...no good choice to make :)
Dana runs 3 basics in a mono colored deck... one of them is snow-covered and another one is a Waste
Change my mind!
Win conditions are one of the first things I think about in decks not planning on winning through combat, and Reckless Fireweaver and Ingenious Artillerist should be played in exactly the same number of decks. If you want one, you want the other. Both my Prosper and Osgir decks play both and they put games away all the time
I feel like the biggest hype would actually be bootleggers stash. I saw it as high as $50 and I recently picked one up for $4 now the hype is settled.
I've one of those 300 decks Siren's Call is in! I have a Sivitri, Dragon Master deck that is all about forcing opponents to attack but creating disadvantages for them choosing to attack me. It's actually pretty strong in lower power games.
TORALF. I built this deck and it is WILD
Rite of harmony is fantastic in torens fist of the angels because you play a lot of cheap creatures and every creature gives you two bodies because of torens’ ability
Cadira can even use it in response to the combat damage trigger for a blowout.
With Toralf, damage doublers and the damage tripler REALLY make cheap, low damage, instants deadly. Especially if you have both. Lol.
Artillerist is such a fun card. I use it in my Treasure Pirates deck. Malcolm + Kediss so swinging at 1 player damages all 3 and gives me 3 treasure. Artillerist will then drop 3 more damage on each of em. But the real spice is when I get one of my "All creatures are pirates" spells down, because THEN artillerist burning will create 3 more treasure, which will burn for 3 more, which will create 3 more treausre, which will burn for 3 more, which will create 3 more treasure....
i was wrong with xander.
i thought this card will be unfun to play with or against others and that this deck just wants to play the worst things of the color combination.
that definetly was just reflex on a card having mean effects on him and to be fair, the first decks i saw where build that way...
after a while i looked at the card again and asked myself how to play it fun way? and yeah the obious answer was written on xander himself. 3 times. HALF THINGS!
i definetly enjoy him and are at least a little calmer about new cards^^.
You looking at a anti fun card like Xander and thinking how can YOU build it in a fun way does not detract from the high salt inducing cringe reaction that is well earned if someone else plays it. Like you said the first several (and probably more since) were all-the-worst-things.deck
The way I see Rite of Harmony, it's a 2 mana Shamanic Revelation with flashback. It's busted when you use it that way, but it doesn't help you get going easily.
Somehow I had a massive brain fart when it came to the spell Sevinne's Reclamation. I don't know if I had a blind spot about the fact that it could bring back fetch lands or stuff like that, but initially I pulled it out of my Jeskai deck. It wasn't till after I saw numerous references to the fact that it could ramp that I ended up putting it back into the deck. Now not only is it one of my All-Star cards but it's one of my absolute favorite cards to just see hit play.
I like castle lochtwain more repeatable card draw.
Better help is not affordable
One of my top favorite Commanders is my Narset, Enlightened Exile deck. Arcane Denial was the top pick for a Counterspell in the deck for its level of flexibility. The majority of the Noncreature Spells in the deck are usable in and out the Graveyard with Narset’s ability, but not all do (other Counterspells included). I could even hit a card in an opponent’s Graveyard with Narset and Counter it with Arcane Denial if I don’t have use for it myself, and draw a bunch of cards off it. No matter what I would get all the Prowess triggers and draw cards.
Golos is hilarious because right before he got banned I put him in the command zone of my Ramos, Dragon Engine deck to power it down since it was a little too strong with Ramos in the command zone for my playgroup.
Solar Blaze can be a one-sided board wipe in Kynaios and Tiro if you're also running a handful of those higher toughness group hug creatures (e.g. Selvala, Explorer Returned)
Even something simple like a parapet would make this completely one sided.
I overrated so much the Dominaria Reunited tribal lord that I bought 4 Elves and 4 Merfolks for 6€ each (yes, 48€ euros wasted).
The elves are the only truly useful ones since drawing in "budget" elves is hard.
The merfolk one is almost redundant (there are lots of lords in merfolk) and you either lose a real card while countering a spell (through the sacrifice-costed activated ability) or lose a very rarely produced token.
The soldier one is ok, having a lord for 2 mana in mono white is powerful.
Looked at Ingenious Artillerist for Prosper, but Reckless Fireweaver still won out. Same effect but 1 mana cheaper and more importantly, 3 toughness instead of 1 meant it sticks around much better. (Would've run both if they hadn't given us 1,000 cards for Prosper this year.)
Also you can tutor it with Imperial Recruiter
Not really the same effect. Artillerist is a single trigger and thus more easily counterable. Fireweaver is multiple! I run both though:)
I've found that swift reconfiguration is much better as a last ditch attempt to protect a key engine piece, than a removal spell.
I can think of about a thousand instances where I'd rather my Tayova, Benthic Druid or Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait to stop being a vulnerable creature and instead be a vehicle. Honestly even my commander, Chulane, would benefit from going "oops I'm a car now" in a ton of situations
Counterspell in 1v1: You and your opponent are neutral on card advantage. You vs. the table: neutral.
Arcane Denial in 1v1: Your opponent is +1 card on you for card advantage. You vs the table: -1 card
Counterspell in 4player: Players C & D are +1 card on card advantage. You vs. the table: -2 cards.
Arcane Denial in 4player: Player B is +1 card on card advantage. You vs. the table: -1 card.
Even in longer, grindier games Arcane Denial is straight up better in 4 player games than Counterspell is.
Relic of Legends is definitely just generically underplayed, but it's not an autoinclude like some others. You want to include it in decks that are either saturated with legendary creatures or decks that have legendary creatures that are mostly there for utility rather than attacking/blocking. It doesn't work as well in certain Votron decks that only really have one big legendary creature, and might incidentally have a small creature on the side.
This card puts in a ton of work in my Ratadrabik deck. Half the time, it's a free spell if you tap a few creatures for it, and often helps get the 2-3 mana boost I need for a play on the following turn. Absolutely a card to keep on your radar when deckbuilding.
Swift Reconfiguration is a really niche hate piece for Voltron decks specifically. Because the enchanted creature stops being a creature, when SBAs are checked, all enchant Creature auras and equipment will fall off. I'd say it's a meta call whether or not this card is great or not, as I've seen fewer and fewer decks looking to win with commander damage lately.
see, I think Midnight clock is very overrated. I just said this in Joeys upping the average on ghyrson starn. he put Midnight clock in there and I'm like 2it takes 3 turns to go off, thats like a windfall with suspend 3". No one would play windfall if it had "suspend 3" on it. I know it's also a blue mana rock, but, unless you play it late game and can pump mana into it, it's not worth it and even if you pump mana into it's a more expensive wheel spell.
Great video
Windgrace judgement at its floor is instant and destroys a nonland permanent. Not great but by that late in the game, whose complaining? Obviously gets better with more opponents, but every card has to be evaluated in context otherwise we can sit here all day mis-evaluating cards ad Infinitum
Protection Racket is terrible. I will gladly pay 7 mana to exile your combo piece, and I'm not going to give my opponents the ability to keep my best cards in exile got just a few life.
Good Stuff
One I misevaluated is Mob Rule. It's 2 mana cheaper than Insurrection and is the same in most scenarios. I used to think the card was hot garbage, until I started destroying players with it!
Arcane Denial gets worse the higher the power level you're playing at. In casual, card advantage is significantly weaker so it doesn't matter as much
The one time i got to play treasure nabber, i played it on turn 2 and got two rotations out of it. Grabbed me a sol ring and some signets each round before it died on turn 4.
random thing but I did a combo the other day, I casted arcane endeavor, I used narsets reversal on it to bounce it back to hand and then copy it, i got a 7 and a 5, so i drew 5, and casted arcane endeavor again for free and drew another 6 cards... narsets reversal is nice
When it comes to rite of harmony you need to think of say a deck like marath wirh lots of mana and token creation or dr john seward with like an aluren in it so u can just cast every creature under three converted mana cost with aluren and draw two cards because of the additional crwature token from john
I still don't understand how Golos was really a problem. Ive watched people talk about it but I just don't get it.
Love you guys!! All of you are always a good listen.
DONT FEED JOEY! its all they can do to keep him grounded
Ingenious artillerist is my Daretti, Scrap Savant's new best friend.
Brothers war literally increased the potency of winter orb static orb decks by an insane margin. My rograhk thrasios deck is a winter/static orb deck and I must admit, I’m kinda grossed out by the upgrades I got. They are too powerful. Drafna and battery bearer and citanul stalwart. Doesn’t sound like a lot? Wait till you get pwned. I’m already holding my own in the constant 3v1s I play in lmfao. Those upgrades are gonna be filth.
Hey maybe do some research into Betterhelp before letting them sponsor you.
I had to take apart my Toralf deck because it was too mean
Memory Lapse had the same misevaluation for me
What do you mean?
@@Turn2Ugin Thinking the card is postponing a problem is not good enough, it is just putting it back on top of the library. However, I did underestimated ruining opponents plans is worth a card and a blue and one other mana. especially combo/high cmc cards.
Cool video, Joey! I do agree that sometimes, we all can get Burned Out when we play the same deck and fell like we’ve solved the deck. What I tend to do to prevent that is to make deck less efficient by adding weird janky cards to make the deck more unique to my play style. I also tend to get a cool reaction from my opponents, I.E. WHAT DOES THAT CARD DO???
And when they all figure it all out, too late, because I win. 😂
Challenge the stats idea:
"Mirror Mockery" with commanders with great ETB. Ex: With "belakorx the dark master", it's, at minimum, a 2-mana draw 2 deal 6 to any target each turn . Similar positive effect with other such as: Gyruda, Doom of Depths; Yorion, Sky Nomad or Unesh, Criosphinx Sovereign. Note that due to state-based effect of the legend rule, it won't work on commander that have a "until leave the battlefield" like Abdel Adrian, Gorion's ward.
I htink it's kind of funny how Joey's takes on Windgrace's Judgement V Casualties of War went, war is good for most of the reasons Judgement is "bad" (except ofc it's still not a greature).
You don't need to worry about leaving the mana up because you have to just shoot it off main phase and get it over with, and there's no feelsbad when it's just you and 1 other player. You can actually bully the archenemy instead of "helping" them. I feel like 3 things for 5 mana is only "good" because it's instant, which Judgement feels like it's hard to make work. But 2 more targets for 1 more mana is a good trade off.
Honestly, try out CoW in the decks you used to have Judgement in, you might be surprised. It's like a super decimate, but better
Totally on the money with how players wouldn't agree about protection racket. protection racket has been REALLY lackluster to me and my playgroup, completely counter to the EDHRECast team's experience. Giving my opponents the choice to just...NEVER EVER let me draw that card I needed feels awful and would 9/10 screw me over when i flipped a card i needed to answer a threat.
In regards to Solar Blaze, a cursory analysis would make it seem much worse than it can be, but because lifelink causes independent life gain events per rule 702.15e, it becomes profoundly better for a Firesong and Sunspeaker deck. This is in regards to the FS&SS ruling "A spell causes you to gain life if its cost or effect instructs you to gain life or if an instruction in its cost or effect is modified by a replacement effect and the modified event includes you gaining life. If a spell’s cost or effect instructs a source with lifelink you control to deal damage, that spell causes that life gain as well." Specifically that last sentence about a source with lifelink that you control. Combined with a strategy to give each creature you control lifelink Solar Blaze can generate a ton of triggers from FS&SS's second ability while completing a very Boros boardwipe.
I play Ravenform in my Oskar deck, where you can make it an instant by just discarding it. Very useful. Cards like this also make me run liquimetal torque as a two mana rock that can incidentally make ravenform and resculpt into "exile target nonland permanent" by effectively paying an additional mana
Swift reconfiguration can protect your creatures too.
Im brewing a Toralf, and one thing that you shouldn't overlook is damage doubling effects. Even two excess damage can end up causing a problem if one of these effects is in play, basically leading to a whirlwind of desth at the table. A lightning bolt becomes a blasphemous act basically, and some poor person ends up getting domed
I generally don't make split second interpretations of cards. Instead, I consider them all viable in specific strategies where I just need to find the right slot for them to shine. A recent example was figuring out that Inspiring Statuary is absolutely incredible in equipment aggro decks like my Syr Gwyn Historic Brawl deck.
For Reckless Endeavor, won't the Artillerist and Fireweaver die (assuming the die rolls are both > 3) before they see the treasures? The effect specifically says "Then create treasure tokens..." so I assume it happens directly after the creature damage.
Yooo I just picked up Ingenious Artillerist for my Malcolm/Kediss deck. He's going to do ton of damage and if I make him a pirate he'll be a win con with Malcolm
Windgrace's Judgment is a victim of the format speeding up and power creep. In the meta when it was released in 2018, it was a house, and now we have Assassin's Trophy and a much lower average cmc...
I'm sad I didn't sell my monologue tax as soon as I got the deck. I thought the card was bad, but there were so many people who were high on it, I said to myself I needed to wait and see. I didn't trust my instinct because I've been wrong before and a lot of knowledgeable people thought otherwise.
55:19 I was playing my dice rolling deck against my partner playing elfball the other day. i played reckless endeavor, rolled 1 and 1, they had a bunch of anthems out, and ended up killing my own blockers 🤣 even if it was unfortunate it still made for a great moment
Treasure nabber is even better when you can find ways to sacrifice the artifacts that you are borrowing for more value. I use him in my Vaevictus Asmadi deck. It’s nice to chaos warp something that you are borrowing and get something that you get to keep permanently
Rite of harmony works really well with certain token decks, but yeah, it's mostly a draw 2-3...still play testing it in my Ghave deck.
Relic of Legends is just a power crept Honor-Worn Shaku and I refuse to play it because I can't tap my planeswalkers for mana with it.
I misread Champion of Lambholt until 2018. I didn't see the part saying it applied to all of your creatures.
Sirens call in hylda is insane
Treasure Nabber plus Rats of Rath is hilarious.
Either they don't use their mana rocks and this slows them down or they do and you can blow them up.^^
All of the cards that roll dice are very much underrated since most of them are just all upside or are varying amounts of upside, and while sometimes some of them can whiff but…
after the second or third time sticking a nezahal i bought 4 of them to put them in all my blue decks from then on. Possibly one of my favorite cards of all time
In a similar vein to sirens call the card mischievous imp is basically this spell on a STICK and it’s absolutely nuts. It reads really weird but its to the cards benefit
Was playing a Xanathar deck and someone had an Arcane Denial as their top card, and I couldn’t figure out how to make sure they didn’t get it… then I noticed I had a Mind Stone in hand.
Still one of my favorite plays.