I think it's worth mentioning that, while not outright stated in the games, it is HEAVILY implied that Lusamine was infected by Nihilego's neurotoxins before the setting of Sun and Moon. See, I'm pretty sure there's a notebook in Aether Paradise labs that goes over how Nihilego's neurotoxin makes a victim not want to hurt Nihilego itself, and do anything to protect it. While it does make the victim want to protect Nihilego, it doesn't make the victim a completely different person, only amplifying characteristics of the victim. I believe that the trauma Lusamine had after losing her husband was brought out full force by the neurotoxin, which is why she acts the way she does. Take this info as you will. (Sorry for the long read)
That's really interesting. Lusamine having her inner feelings being amplified to the highest degree turning her into this monster of a woman is super creepy but also cool. Also don't worry about the length. I (am ashamed to admit that I've made) comments 3 times longer.
JPR on Volo: “How did he meet Garitina? Why is he obsessed with being God?” Me: “How did he style his hair like that and how does he have the time to do it?”
I do think Maxie and Archie deserve more credit in one respect: they actually succeeded in executing on their stated goal. They wanted to awaken a Legendary and use its power to change the planet, and they did it. Whether you think their plan makes sense or not, you have to respect a villain that is driven and smart enough to succeed. It’s the same basic principle as Thanos in the MCU: his goal doesn’t make much sense to the rest of us, but he’s respected as one of the best villains because he actually did what he set out to do initially. I’m not saying Maxie and Archie are as well written, just that their success deservedly earns them more credit on the villain scale.
I have to say that Archie and Maxie (in ORAS mostly, in the anime they suck) are pretty decent. I think that people just doesn't understand them, but everything about them has sense. To start, their goals. For the community, they just want more water and more land, but techincally, there are reasons for that. Archie wants to expand the ocean, because in his opinion, if the humanity keeps making houses, cities and building things, they're killing Pokémon that live there and leaving them without territory. He really loves the Pokémon that live in Hoenn's sea. He says in Pokémon Masters that he loves the sea with it's exploration and the mysteries it gives. He thinks that with the power of Kyogre's rain he can be able also to destroy the existing technology and that he can make again the start of the times. Kyogre is the Alpha Pokémon, the start of everything, when the humans hadn't evolved that much the world, and Archie is a pirate. It makes sense that he prefeers the past than the future. In the other hand, Maxie wants to expand territory because in his opinion, if there is more land to work on, that means the humanity can grow up their technology and make a better future for everyone. Groudon is the Omega Pokémon, the Pokémon of the End of the times. It makes sense that Maxie is a scientist, because he prefeers the future than the past.
If we take that into account this how great would it have been if N and Cyrus showed up. They would be great sponsors for a humanity/technology vs pokemon/nature dilemma. It's also what I like about both of them, their division and stand makes me wish we had a way to choose between them and have the consequences be something similar to the black city and white forest in gen5, it's a shame we didn't have that for oras and it would fit so well too.
@@bdt2002gaming yea, that's what I thought when I saw that the theme of the games where Past and Future, also it's curious that both regions are more made to explore. Hoenn has a lot of biomes, secrets, and things to do there, and Scarlet and Violet being open worlds seems like that.
I will agree, and will probably go even further to say that they were most likely a foundation to take Pokémon villains & plots into a new direction, but someone in the Nintendo upper echelons put their foot down and stopped it.
Rose was definitely a villain that had a lot of missed opportunities to be a good or even a great villain since there's zero reason why the energy crisis that would happen in a 1000 years needed to be done right now to the point that even Leon was questioning about it. If they fleshed out Rose's story and mindset once more to understand how he's feeling and give a reason on why he's desperate to get the future energy crisis done as soon as possible, then I think he could be up there as one of the better villains and maybe even story in Pokemon instead of rushing it at the last moment and giving Eternatus zero build up.
Rose was basically the Evil Business Man trope honestly that trope is tiring. Rose had a lot of potential but remember it wasn't our story it was Leon's story.😒
I straight up sat for about 10 minutes trying to remember who Rose was. Chairman Rose was done dirty, just felt like Lusamine but cranked down to 1. The CEO of a large business who’s made out to be a cool hero/side character wanting the best for the world, but actually turn out to be the villain while a secondary evil team acts as a diversion. Lusamine had more of a personal touch, losing her husband so turns to the ultra beasts and ultra space to get him back, while making it seem like she’s just after research. Rose is pretty useless, and has no motivation. He’s just a businessman doing business. Making as much money as he can, regardless of what happens, even if that means bringing the apocalypse.
Yeah, the game did a horrible job at showing his side. From what they gave us in game, the energy crisis 1000 years away and Leon willing to help after the Champion match. All he had to do was wait a day to solve something that wouldn't be an actual problem until centuries later. The game makes him look less like a desperate man who seems to be the only one who cares about an oncoming crisis and more like a massive, impatient baby.
I do love that Giovanni continues to gain respect. Dude’s one of the best evil team leaders. His goals are relatively simple, and I think that allows him to flourish from his personality alone.
Yeah, he's just a poké-mob boss. He doesn't want to remake the world or fuse with alien jellyfish or become god. He just wants money and power and is willing to use violence to get it. He's *grounded* in a way most other villains in the series aren't.
@@jaretco6423 I mean, he is Ghetsis' second-in-command and is unapologetically working as the official head of Team Plasma, so I think if N counts then Colress definitely should as well.
@@jaretco6423 Same here, he's probably one of the most likeable villains, I probably would have placed him higher if he didn't get sidelined for Ghetsis near the end.
@@BJGvideos The Team Star Admins are basically all near the bottom since they really don't do anything villainous at all, and they don't get enough screen-time for me to really get close to them as characters either. The same goes for Penny. The AI-professor goes way higher for having one of the best boss battles in the entire series, though I wish it was more antagonistic. Still a good character though, I imagine I'd place it somewhere at around 8th place.
@@dobadobadooo Star isn't even really villains. I'd go so far as to call them heroes, albeit with terrible press. Oh god the debate of if the AI even counts as an antagonist either. They served the professor but how much was willing and how much was what they were programmed to do? Because when they do the actually EVIL stuff, it's the PPP taking over their mechanical shell and using them as a puppet. The PPP likely isn't even sentient like the AI is, but they both represent the professor's personality.
I think the biggest issue with Rose is how there's zero reason for him to awaken Eternatus when he did. He caught everyone unprepared for the potential apocalypse because he's impatient and nothing more. Well it wouldn't have fixed everything it could have been a lot better if it was like, alternatives can only be awoken one day every 100 years or something so it HAD to happen on champion day
Rose´s plan does makes sense though. And it´s highly tied to everything you hear and watch during your entire playthrough about the legend of Galar, the characters and specially about Leon. In fact, something that people loves to joke about is the whole Leon being an unbeatable champion thing but this is actually a huge plot point. This because Rose was developing his plan based on his (incomplete/inaccurate) knowledge of the legend of Galar (the one that talks about how "a hero" was the one who stopped the first darkest day). So in order to ensure the future of Galar (by making Eternatus scatter wishing stars once again through the entire region like it did 3000years ago), he needed to recreate the events of the first darkest day. Because of this, he needed two things: to bring back the darkest day (a.k.a Eternatus) and "a hero" to defeat it (and in current times, this would be Leon, the strongest trainer of the Galar region). Which made Leon´s cooperation an absolutely vital part of his plan. As seen through the game, Rose isn´t really a bad person. He loves Galar, had a huge role in his development as a metropolis and has a great eye to find talented people that could help with that growth (Oleana, Leon, Bede, etc). But he also has some really strong ideals. And that´s why the scene where he expels Bede from the gym challenge for destroying the ancient mural is also really important. Because is meant to show that Rose cuts associations with anyone that goes againts the well being of Galar in some way or another. And just like what happened with Bede, he also got dissapointed with Leon´s actions. Bede not only was the challenger endorsed by Rose, he was his plan B in case Leon refused to take part in his plan. A challenger with great talent that could potentially beat Leon and become the champion. But he lost this plan B as a result of what happened with the mural since he considered Bede as unreliable due to his actions. Although he was unaware of Oleana´s petition to Bede and how unintentionally on Oleana´s part, encouraged Bede to go to extremes to help Rose. Quotes from Rose and Bede: Bede:" If I gather enough wishing stars, that´ll help you to solve the problem that has been bothering you, right Mr. Chairman?" Rose: "Oh, it´s not just about me. It´s for the future of the whole Galar region. And we´ll need more than just wishing stars. We´ll need a powerful pokemon trainer too. Someone like the champion." Bede: "With all due respect sir, I was able to show Hop, one of the champion endorsed trainers just how outclassed he was. I´m sure I´ll be able to defeat the champion. No, I WILL defeat the champion. "Rose: "That´s the spirit. It takes healthy competition to really keep the gym challenge energized". Then Oleana interrupts to talk to Bede and this is when Bede learns from Oleana about the wishing stars near the mural and ask her to lend Rose´s Copperajah (without her knowing his intentions and making Rose disappointment in his actions even worse for using HIS pokemon to do it). After this, Rose personally gives you, the player, literally an entire explanation about why the wishing stars are so important in Galar. Explaining how the energy from the wishing stars is transformed and used literally for everything in the region (and this is what helped to turn the region into a huge metropolis in a really short period of time. Around 20 years ago by the way). That´s how useful the wishing stars are. But they aren´t unlimited and that´s the main problem. And after this, he even suggest you to check the hammerlocke vault, where the ancient tapestries with the (incomplete/inaccurate) version of the legend of the darkest day are being preserve ( and that is the version of the legend he is using for his plan since the actual truth about the legend is unknown by literally everyone). Dynamax energy can last for a long time, but the wishing stars that contain such energy in a metropolis with an increasingly higher use of them can only keep existing with Eternatus defeat. So they needed to ensure their existence but everytime they give wishing stars to Eternatus for his awakening to eventually happen it also accelerates that moment and gets harder to contain (hence why you hear explosions every time you´re near hammerlock). It´s also important to mention that the reunion with Leon in Rose Tower wasn´t Rose´s first attempt to convince Leon to participate in the plan (but the problem is that as the strongest trainer of galar, he was vital for his plan, so he HAD to take part in it). Quote from Rose: "Leon, we have discussed this a hundred times already. And you still fail to understand what´s at stake? You, who are supposed to be our champion". In fact, Oleana´s entire ambush to Leon on his way to the dinner with Hop and the player was their last attempt to get Leon´s cooperation by his own will. To the point where Oleana makes everything in her power to delay your (and Hop´s) arrival to the tower to gain as much time as she could for Rose to convince Leon, even if she herself had to battle againts the player to do it. At the end, this plan failed and Rose got dissapointed with Leon just like he did with Bede but he still needed him for his plan, specially after the experiments required to awake Eternatus (the explosions you hear through the game and that Leon took care of). Because of this, Eternatus was already fully overloaded for Leon to fight but Rose no longer trusted in Leon´s promises to help with the plan, which is why the plan couldn´t be delayed. Once again, he cuts associations with anyone that he considers failed to Galar. So given the situation he needed to force Leon to cooperate (by awakening Eternatus in a way that Leon couldn´t ignore: during the final match of the gym challenge). Quotes from Rose: " I think it´s time to bring the darkest day. All for the sake of Galar.But I´m in a bit of a pickle. The energy released by the darkest day it´s too much for us to contain." "I´m sorry it´s come to this. But it´s you who forced my hand, Leon. You refused to listen" "In order to solve the energy issue, we awakened Eternatus but we couldn´t control it. The champion still came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon". So basically, the experiments caused Eternatus awakening to accelerate making it even harder to contain and this why their plan couldn´t be delayed (and it´s also why you hear explosions through the story everytime you´re near hammerlocke) and their reunion in Rose Tower was Rose´s last attempt to convince him to take part in the plan by his own will since Leon was vital for it. But he refused to take part in such a dangerous plan and this became the moment where he saw Leon just like he saw Bede, but he was still vital for the plan. And because of this, he made sure to force Leon to participate in it by letting Eternatus awakening happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore (during the final match of the gym challenge) and Leon had to participate just like he expected and just like his plan (that was based on the incomplete/inaccurate version of the legend of Galar) required. And only you, the player, thanks to the fact that you went through the gym challenge, Sonia´s research in the places related to the legend and to the discovery of the lost ancient tapestry with the missing part of the legend (that hinted the location of the relics necessary to summon the legendaries that protected Galar), discovered the actual cause of Eternatus defeat 3000 years ago that no one else knew. And with Hop´s help you were able to summon the only ones that could actually defeat Eternatus (Zacian and Zamazenta), just like the two kings (descendants of Swordward and Shieldbert) did in the past and saved the region (while also ensuring the future of Galar with the wishing stars being scattered once again through the region). Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. I tend to write a lot sometimes XD. But I hope this helps to understand Rose´s plan with Leon and the darkest day and why he did what he did.
@@giboit. I understand a lot of it, I just think the execution sucks. Especially since Leon agrees to help, as long as it's the day after the championship. So it comes across as Rose just being an impatient baby, rather than a desperate man. I do think they could've had something wonderful with Rose, but they squandered the potential
@@TechnoArpan You're still not getting it. That wasn't the first time that Rose heard that kind of promise from Leon. That moment that you see in the game was just the last straw for him. Many people confused the idea of dynamax energy having the potential to last a thousand years with the wishing starts (the source of that energy) being unlimited. Rose was aiming to restore the amount of wishing stars required to keep having energy able to last a thousand years. Because the wishing stars are used for literally everything in the (increasingly wishing stars dependent) Galar region. But only Eternatus was able to produce them and the last time it did it was 3000 years ago.
1:19 In the manga, there's actually an explanation for this. Several other gym leaders also help Team Rocket and its heavily implied they have connections throughout the Kanto region's Pokemon League. Basically, Giovanni being Team rocket's leader is ignored because of corruption.
I thought the Pokemon league was still somewhat young and didn't have much of a filter or clearance to check for bad faith gym leaders. After the Kanto Pokedex Holders uprooted Team Rocket, the Pokemon League started taking more active measures with whom they accepted as gym leaders. Also, Kanto and Johto are considered to be fairly backwater regions, lacking significant infrastructure that other regions have. The Kanto Elite Four were environmental terrorists who sought the destruction of industrialization and pollution. After the big battle and a couple years, Koga and Bruno got Will and Karen to join them to hone their skills in battle and focus on the spirit of battle. I forgot to mention this, there really wasn't a champion in Kanto until Red and Lance wasn't a champion, just a fill in for Red while he was recovering. The Hoenn region was the first region shown to have good Gym Leaders, an Elite Four, and Champion that were cleared by the Pokemon League. They also had a signifier for who the Champion is. Unova was the first region to have a Pokedex Holder look towards beating the Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion. Up to this point, Pokedex Holders only really sought to battle Gym Leaders for the spirit of competition and proving oneself.
You can piece together what caused Cyrus to lead down to the path of villiany, which was address luckily enough, Pokemon Platinum by his grandfather in who lived in Route 228. Cyrus was a good and albeit asocial child, a good student yet never met with his parent's expectation. They were harsh to young Cyrus which is what led to becoming villain. When we have Cyllene put into the picture, we get more details, at least by speculation, but is likely what happened. She's strict, yet caring, and it's proven to be an effective way to urge the Survey Corps onward. So it's safe to say that the Galaxy Team thrived on with Cyllene taking over with her way on running the business, unfortunately her decedents slowly pick up on her strict side more which end up resulting Cyrus' parents' ill behaviour. Also when I thought when you were referring to Lusamine at her worse, I thought you mean how she was portrayed in USUM, I think THAT ruined her character. The Anime is a different beast where it's more of a 'What If...' Scenario on if Lusamine actually put her family first, and was written very well.
@@skeetermania3202 if you mean USUM, it wasn't that Lusamine wasn't more sympathetic, that was already covered in SM explained by Gladion. It was how 'Look! I am a Sane Good person the whole time' out of nowhere before Necrozma appeared.
I can see some of what Rose was going for. He believed, probably correctly, that there would be an energy crisis. He knew it would have to be dealt with at some point, and he had (or at least thought he had) the tools and capacity to do so, so why wouldn’t he? Why wait until people start to suffer? It is possible that this was a “my life’s work” situation, and therefore Leon’s request to postpone the climax until after the League made him feel betrayed, causing him to interrupt the event as revenge, but we don’t get any evidence to suggest he has those sorts of egomaniacal traits which makes the whole thing seem really off. If anything, I’d expect his cold and calculating assistant to be the nefarious one who would push him aside and press the button.
That's exactly the point of Rose in Pokemon SwSh. The problem you say about the evidence is the same that made stories of the game missunderstood for the community: not making real changes and showing what's really happening in the game. For example, not all of the community knew that Bede collected the Whising Stars for Rose because he was the unique person who gave him some love and an opportunity to get stronger when Bede was alone in the orphanage. That kind of lost details of the game hadn't been really shown in the games and in the actions of the characters. I think that Oleana wasn't really manipulating him, because her actions were just stopping the player from stopping their plan. I just think Rose when he heard about Eternatus and the infinite Dynamax power he makes, he thought it was the perfect Energetic Resource to stop that crisis. I also think about that crisis did start on the games already. For example, we are able to see that in Spikemuth (Marnie's town) there isn't enough Dynamax energy because of the crisis.
@@alfernix As if the world even needs dynamax energy. The way it is being written and presented specifically screams power/electricity crisis. And I get the basic idea of wanting to convert over the dynamax-energy, but Rose being so obsessed with finding a solution is dubious at best. We never actually get a frame for what he has already tried, like has he tried gathering large chunks of electric pokemon or what? And even if he does find a solution, what makes him think it would still be valid 1000 years later? What if there is an accident and the power is somehow lost? And what about new possibilities that would reveal themselves in the future? It is simply not up to a generation whose grandkids' grandkids will still be far removed from the moment of oof.
This is a common problem I find with Pokémon stories when they try to make villains that are trying to be the good guys by doing what others will not. I forget where they said it (I recall hearing about it in a video discussing Pokémon game development), but Game Freak once said that the Pokémon world is basically a utopia. Even ignoring that, the Pokémon world is very much idealized in its presentation and setup. This causes a major problem though, as while the villain motivations might make sense when compared to 'the real world', they don't make sense when compared to the Pokémon world. - Maxie wanted to expand the landmass to further human development, and while we get some of that with Sea Mauville and the decommissioned New Mauville site, there isn't much there. - Archie wanted to return nature back to its natural state to fix the environment, but we don't see any pollution, deforestation, Pokémon ecosystem damage, or anything else that would fall under that banner. - Lysandre thought to save the world you'd have to lower the population and preserve what's left, but we never hear about any overpopulation problems in Kalos. - Rose wants to resolve an energy crisis, but that's not shown to be a major problem in Galar's region. I never played Sword and Shield, so maybe I'm wrong here, but it doesn't look like power supply problems are a major deal. These motivations don't work because Pokemon is set up as an idealized world, causing a disconnect between how the villains perceive reality and what we're actually shown. Selfish villains like Cyrus an Ghetsis may have simpler motivations by comparison, but they aren't at odds with the worlds they live in, so they still work no matter how you establish the given region.
@@flarestorm9417 Well yeah, the power is going out in 1000 years, as is evident in what is being discussed here. Not saying this to validate Rose as a villain because that is exactly the issue(It really should have been 10 years or even 1 year, lol), I am just saying that I feel it would actually be more bizarre to see signs of the power supplies failing in this given setting.
For Lusamine, I should point out that in original version it's implied through dialog and pokedex entries suggest that the Nihilego attack from before the game caused Lusamine to get infected with it's neurotoxins that effected Lusamine's preexisting mindset to the point of insanity. Which is why she is more notably stable in the Ultra remakes As for Volo, I should add that part of his motivation is that he seems to be a religious fanatic of Arceus. Doesn't discredit what you said though
Chairman rose’s story in the anime: my father died working in a coal mine, so I’m doing this to make sure this never happens again Chairman rose’s story in the games: coal going to run out in 1000 years so i behave like 5 year old and panik
I'm conflicted with Lusamine. As far as I'm concerned she has 3 different interpretations. First is the SM rendition which we all know is good. Second is the anime and I don't mind her there. She was definitely a different character but they changed enough to where I feel she's still enjoyable with all her differences and is also a nice little "what if she wasn't consumed by loss and didn't go crazy" scenario. What I cannot say was enjoyable was her third rendition in USUM. It's a horrible mix between crazy SM game Lusamine and nice SM anime Lusamine taking this still terrible person currently trying to drain what's essentially a baby to make Ultra Wormholes into this unsung hero trying to save the world from Necrozma.
Not to mention that the abusive dynamic between her and Lillie/Gladion is STILL there despite Nihilego not influencing her. She still has Pokémon frozen in her room, still mistreats Lillie, you still battle her for virtually no reason. It didn’t make any sense to me, she somehow was more logical when she was insane due to Nihilego’s influence in SM.
I think you missed the point. USUM Lusamine is no "unsung hero", she's explicitly said to be a selfish and controlling person who wants to defeat or capture Necrozma as a false empowerment of herself and a way to cheat past having to actually work past her trauma and be a better person to her family, company, Pokemon, etc. The "I will save Alola's light" rhetoric was shown to be bullshit because her provoking Necrozma is what CAUSES it to break loose into Alola and take its light.
@@incrediblefunk7220personally i thought she went to go through what she did in Sun and Moon but her Nilhigo and Guzma got bitched slapped by Necrozama This makes me think Necrozama grabbed Mohn and she is hell bent on vengeance
Cyrus flat-out says that he's lying to his followers about his plans. His followers think they're working towards just making a better world for all of them.
It's also odd because he does confirm that others will be in his new world. He also lies to us to provoke us at a few points (remember how he says he'll blow up Celestic Town if we oppose him, we do it anyway, and he praises us and leaves?) so who knows if he was telling US the truth when he said that?
I REALLY wish we got more motivation for Volo. If he was driven by wanting some specific answer like why his ancestral people, the Celestica, were driven from Hisui, then he could even be considered sympathetic. As it was we get a guy who's yandere for God, wanting both to praise Arceus as well as destroy it for not loving him. And I also feel like his story should have tied in with learning more about Cogita. Why is her reaction to him so...stilted? Why is her reaction to finding about his plan "ah yeah that happens sometimes with people who get obsessed with legends, don't think any more about this guy who was your best friend until he tried to kill you, now, do you want to hear more legends? I won't let you say no"? If he had been able to keep up his facade just a few minutes more, I think we would have just handed him the plates ourselves. If he had said he didn't want to risk us and he would open the way to make sure it was safe, we would have gladly given them over. Heck, if he just told us "can you help me meet Arceus?", we would have. And I think if he thought about it, he would have eventually realized that if he had no reason to hate us. After all, we had no say in Arceus's decision, and should by all rights hate it even more than he does. Heck, he could have played into that, if he had just realized that vital piece of information. My tops are Cyrus and Lusamine, and even though I usually put Volo in with them because they all compelled me to defeat them but I also felt like they needed HELP, like we should be able to reach out to them afterwards (and with Lusamine she DID get help, which was great), Volo's utter lack of backstory knocks him down a peg. Bottom of the barrel are anime Cyrus and Ultra Lusamine. Ugh. Talk about utterly missing the point of both characters.
@@SSBBPOKEFAN I personally don't like PMD2 Darkrai as much as most other incarnations of Darkrai, like it's one of the only versions of the character that is just evil instead of being misunderstood which makes him less interesting. He's a good and fun villain, I just feel he's kinda disappointing for PMD2 since other characters in the game have a lot more depth than him. He also doesn't really fit in the "bad Pokemon don't exist anywhere" game, since he's basically just 100% bad. Dusknoir's a much better villain imo and my fave character in the game, really amazing character arc.
I love Ghetsis. He's wants to control everything and has the schemes to do it but always teeters on madman especially when things don't go his way. I feel like his only problem is thst he's in Black and White. This whole game has been showing you N's side and how you might not be wrong but neither is he leading to a climactic clash of ideals at the end of the game.....only for Ghetsis to come in and be like "no wait, I made N this way soley to further my own goals." It kinda kicks the grey area in the face a bit in my opinion.
Tbf I feel with Ghetsis, his role in the story doesn’t give a definitive answer to the clash between you and N. N himself admits that listening to other people’s opinions and beliefs is important, that’s what he took away from it because through the game, he was stubborn. He only believed in his way or the highway, like when he lambasted Juniper for being in possession of a Pokedex. Ghetsis doesn’t undermine that at all, he instead places the final confirmation that N was manipulated into going down this path. But that doesn’t take away the fact that N believed in truths or ideals even after this revelation, it consolidates his beliefs on the world and the main character does the same with their beliefs.
This video makes me want to see you read and cover the Manga since it's easily the pokemon IP with the most fleshed out character writing and the villains specifically are given a lot more focus. Giovanni for example goes from "mob boss who stays one step ahead of everyone except Red" to a really nuanced and impactful character who shows up many times and has a lot of ripple effects even when he doesn't
Giovanni in Pokespe was a fairly one dimensional villain. Yeah, he truly loved his son and respected Red but that all he has. Outside of it, he had little to no personality. And every time he helps the heroes to protect the world from greater threats, it's purely for selfish reasons (either because his own life is threatened or because it would impossible to rule the world that's already destroyed). And he's never really helpful in any of his "enemy mine" situation. In Yellow, he fights Lance but falls in his trap and ends up making things worse. In HGSS, his disease gets the better of him and he faints after few attacks. In ORAS, he saves the heroes (because they would be useful for him) but outside of this, he does absolutely nothing. Whereas Giovanni from the games is a better character than he's given credit for. He shows respect for his enemies and his grunts, he pretty clearly cares for the members of Team Rocket and his son, Silver, he values teamwork and bounds between people. He has plenty of principles and standards and every game fleshes his character further.
I feel that each villain leader have something to learnt from: Giovanni: Bad guy exist and irl they are able to mix in with the good people (he being a gym leader) Archie and Maxie: Their motives depict the environmental issues irl Cyrus: There is no perfection irl and we have to live with it Ghetsis: That there are people that actually so evil (bringing up a child, foster a cult-like group, actually wont hesitate to kill children) Lysandre: TBH, I still dk his agenda, thinking and backstory Lusamine: How having ur desire overcome you can turn you into Rose: It is not good to overthink and overworry for future stuff, it may even harm you and other people in the process Volo: Innocent and helpful people may backstab/show you their actual true self
Lysandre's about people destroying the world and overpopulation being a problem, in Y He's about preserving the present beauty the world has to offer without letting it deteriorate in X Idk how well the X version lines up with real life, but it's certainly interesting
Geovanni isn't actually an italian steriotype his japanese name (as well as most of his international names) is clearly japanese and team R as a whole is very Yakuza inspired,
The thing I absolutely hate about Archie and Maxie is that in the original games, Maxie thought that the blue orb would awaken Groudon and the red orb would awaken kyogre. THE COLORS ARE DIFFERENT. THAT SHOULD BE A HUGE RED FLAG. Unless they actually DO control them and I don't know.
The biggest crime with Lusamine is that because of how Pokémon canon works (third versions override dual versions, remakes override third versions) the canon Lusamine is the weird mish-mash one from Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon whose motivations don't make sense. This applies to Cyrus too, but his character isn't as big a jump from DP to Plt as Lusamine's is from SM to USUM.
That's not how canon works. Didn't you pay attention to the Delta Episode and the RR Episode? The multiverse exists. The dual versions exist in different universes from the third version.
The creepiest part is how REAL she is. Space jellyfish aside, she's torn apart by grief to the point where it ruined who she was inside, and her obsession with her own loss made her unable to accept that her children were growing up. She wanted to keep everything the same for Mohn, and just by existing, her children went against that. She was so gone that she couldn't accept the passage of time.
As amazing as Ghetsis is, I think he comes second place to the best Pokémon villain: Darkrai from Explorers of Sky. Darkrai comes out of nowhere; only showing up in the postgame. And yet, he fits perfectly into the story and has everything make sense. Not only does he make sense, he is just pure evil. At multiple occasions, he causes you to doubt yourself and think that the world would be better off without you in it. And he plays dirty. He only has his minions do stuff for him, he fools the rulers of time and space into trying to kill you, he disguises himself as Cresselia to try and manipulate you, he gives you an illusion where your best friend supposedly joins him and wants you to die, he sets a trap for you in the Dark Crater, and he tries to escape after being defeated, trying to start his whole scheme from scratch. But it’s all the more satisfying to see him get his comeuppance from Palkia by him forgetting his memories like what he did to you
I’m still of the opinion that Oleana should’ve been the main villain for SwSh. Rose seemed more like a figure head and Oleana seemed to be more passionate about Rose’s ideals than he was.
Cyrus only succeeded in the Rainbow Rocket verse, where everyone was from universes where they succeeded. If you get down to it, Rose and Guzma won. Rose stopped Eternatus from draining the energy from Galar, and Guzma got as close as he could to being a trial captain.
@@bdt2002gaming Ranger in general has been mostly forgotten about. I think Jayden Animations reinspired people about 2, but even then I don't know how many people played it.
Lusamine takes the cake for me. I think it's the very first time GF actually managed to put the 'twisted' in a 'twist villain'. From start to finish, the encounter theme, the battle theme, the nice and grand then eerie feeling from Aether Foundations, then all the hints we got that told us how she went from there. Not to mention it's probably the one character I could get _most_ sympathetic with. The ultra games ruined it, not because of what they did to Lusamine. The infusion is wacky but that's that. It's how they changed Lillie that ruined it. The awkward, shy, unfriendly, but ultimately very loving little girl was a direct result of Lusamine's twisted mind. You can't change it to an all smiling girl. The `reconciliation' they got after everything also ruined the feeling.
For Maxie and Archie I like Tama's research on why gamefreak went with the land and water idea because of what was happening in Japan at the time. Doesn't save their stupidity but it gives the reasoning some more weight.
The more I think about it I think I understand USUM Lusamine more. I always kinda viewed her insane savior complex as a resault of the trauma of losing her husband. A warped twisted desire to try and save everyone even at a cost of hurting them and herself. I still like her total insanity in original sun and moon more but I have kinda warmed on USUM's depiction of her.
@@jaretco6423 No it still does. She's scared to death of losing any more of her most perecious people to circumstances beyond her control like what happened with Mohn, so she froze those Pokemon so that they wouldn't ever leave her or die.
I do like Volos fight, but it felt unfair. Legends Arceus’ mechanics made it really hard to gain momentum in battle as the flow was usually one Pokemon being taken out and then the next Pokémon coming in and immediately getting a revenge kill. That system becomes very frustrating when your opponent gets 2 more Pokémon than you.
yeah, Legends was SO refreshing in many ways and I liked the new battle system for THAT game, but in a long battle like with Volo it really showed its negative side too - OHKO'ing each other's pokémon, hardly any strategy (status moves) and crucially zero knowledge of how quickly a fresh opposing pokémon will move
Agreed. Honestly, The way they wrote Volo is frustrating as hell. His villain arc still feel rushed to me despite all the red flags through out the game.
Easy Volo for the top considering he wants to kill you with Giritina,Ghestis wanting to kill you with Kyruem in Black 2 and White 2,and Cyrus for wanting to erase the Universe to create a new one. Those are my favorite Pokemon Villains of all time!
@@dragonslayer7724 Edgelord? He lost all faith in the world when he couldn't rely on anybody from a very early age. His grandfather knew he was being abused and did nothing to intervene.
Idc how lackluster he is looking back on it, when I was a kid Sapphire was my first game and ngl Archie totally scared me as a kid and I cant say how powerful I felt when I finally bested him for the final time Not to mention the return of OG Archie in USUM made me so excited
Damn I was hoping you would talk about how great Giovanni is in the Adventures Manga cause you have brought it up a couple times in other videos but oh well
Cyrus to me feels like a sort of proto-N a bit with having a lot of implied abuse in his backstory, but it's not fleshed out nearly as much as N. They also tease him reforming a bit in Ultra and in Masters, like he questioned the player if things could have been different for him had he met us sooner after learning how strong our bonds with our Pokémon made us, and Masters has even Cynthia think he can change, and he even starts seeing spirit a bit differently, wanting to complete it and admitting it could be useful, instead of just erasing it.
i really liked the twist with Volo. But i had an itch something might be up with him since those organizations that are always up to date with EVERYTHING are generally a little suspicious.
I literally am so surprised by you saying your goal is just 200,000?? How do you not have over a million subscribers I literally can’t believe that. Your videos are so well made all the way around. I hope you hit your goals and way more!
In the anime Rose is just Galarian Lusamine but in the games he's just an impatient guy obsessed with the future of what he's created. It's pretty clear from what they WANTED to portray with Rose is that he cares way to hard for what he wants and wants it to stick even after he's gone. They just dropped the ball.
I honestly don't think Lusamine from the anime even should be consider as villain. Changing her personality is not bad at all. I like her dorky personality in the anime but I also love her insanity in the game. But yeah Lusamine in the anime is not evil at all so she shouldn't rank
I feel the same way about Volvo a man with a god complex believing that meeting god will validate all the work he put in I find that insanely interesting and while I love the twist of him hiding I do wish hints were dropped earlier I wanna know why he’s like this I’m curious if he has anyone that follows his path of madness it just feels like there more hiding there that I wanna know anyway my favorite villian is eaither N Govinni or SM lusamine I don’t include ultra because they kinda rewrite her in those games and it feels werid
I feel like Cogita knew more than she let on but also doesn't especially *care*, considering she, immediately after telling us that this happens sometimes with people who get obsessed with legends, tries to tell us about more legends.
@@summersweete09 Cogita is kind of a disturbing character when you get down to it. She's supposed to be this wise sage who holds this sacred knowledge, but she also thinks nothing of using a divine artifact so flippantly, discards her pupil the first chance she gets after repeatedly dismissing him as a slacker, uses the end of the world as an excuse to shop, as if it means nothing to her, and never talks to anybody but us (it's implied she talks to Laventon and Anthe but we never see it, do we?). And she also may or may not be immortal, potentially the last of the original Celestica, so could it be her long life and the loss of her people that's caused her detachment from the rest of the world, or was she like that to begin with?
To bounce off the Volo stuff, I think it's pretty established why he's obsessed with the idea of god and wants to meet it so badly He curses himself and agonizes over being a visionary, for seeing and questioning things the rest of the world doesn't, and therefore wants to ascertain for his own eyes, by coming face to face with the god itself, and potentially dragging it from its throne, why he was cursed with this knowledge This ties into his whole connection with Giratina, where he describes it as "The creator's banished son", and clearly finds relation to it through that sentiment. Which is why he then partners with it, and is embodied by it, giving in the process, a multitude of parallels to Cyrus from Platinum *further bolstered by his generations short* Essentially he wants to come face to face with Arceus and question, "Why did you curse me with this knowledge? Why, did you make me your banished son" When playing I compared him almost to Father/Dwarf in the Flask from Fullmetal Alchemist, and think that a lot of his draws come from his innate similarities to those circumstances, and compare Cyrus with Kirei Kotomine from the Fate Series
I feel like the actual trainers need to get more appreciation and representation in stuff like smash. Not as fighters but like spirits or trophies and what not
I saw an interesting video about Cyrus In relations to stuff like concepts from Buddhism and psychological concepts like anti social disorder and/or even autism. In particular I think the stuff from Buddhism gives a lot more context to cyruses character which may exist in cultures like in Japan, but just isn’t as present in the west, which may be the reason why at best (as in platinum) Cyrus is just a good villain who needs more back story. Because from a western perspective i think it can be confusing as it needs the context established. Idk if this makes sense but comment your opinion, I’ll find a link to the video regarding this later ✨
Idk I'm a big Cyrus fan and I'm also autistic but I just don't see it in him. What do you mean "from a western perspective I think it can be confusing"? I think people in any hemisphere can, sadly, relate to the notion of being so isolated and neglected.
@@BJGvideosabout the comment about a western perspective, it’s related to what kind of cultural values and ideas and especially context there is when interpreting something. As an example people in the west may interpret one thing a certain way due to Christian values being intertwined in our morality and understanding of the world (even if you are secular), whilst in countries like Japan they may interpret and understand the same thing differently as it’s done through the lends of something like Shinto or Buddhist ways of thinking. For a more secular example, people in the eastern bloc under communism had one way of viewing the world valuing collective wellbeing for example, whilst people in the western bloc under capitalism would have had a different one, valuing individual profit for example. You are right to say that yes we are all humans and we are capable of having the same understanding of things, but being nurtured in a very different environment with different thoughts and interpretations and values, it changes how we view the world and the assumptions we have about the world. Also, I feel the same about the autism thing, because I don’t have it too and I don’t see that specifically, but in the video I shared, I found it interesting none the less regardless of what extent I believe in it
@@toonlink1723 I guess to me the religious stuff is more original and multicultural than drawing from any one hemisphere. And that's more to do with the legendaries in Sinnoh than with Cyrus himself.
Lusamine *depends on which version*, but don't mention the difference in SM and Ultra SM. In Sun Moon she's a great villain, poisoned by the ultra beasts and driven by sadness over the loss of her husband. And when you defeat her in the end, you see a little bit of her old self as she's freed from the influence of the Nihilego. In the Ultra games? Because her ultra beast story is cut, she's just a generally unpleasant person who is leading the efforts against Nekrozma out of obligation. She's your standard workaholic parent type with no redeeming arc or personality change. She's flat and uninteresting. At least in the anime, her bubbly personality IS a personality.
Lysandre: I am the bad guy and will blow up the world cause beauty. Cyrus: I'll be God now destroy this world for my own. Similar but huge difference. Cyrus wanted to be God while Lysandre is poor man's Steven Wolfe let alone Thanos.
Volo is the first villain I felt sorry for in Pokemon. I think he was driven to insanity over time by the toxic relation he had with Giratina. I believe that his original plan was just driven to the extreme over time. Wanting to meet and ask Arceus why he was abandoned and suffering and then wanting to prove to himself and them that he has some worth to his name. This turning into obsession because of his knowledge of the ancient people he has a possible relation to, claiming to be of the "blood of the ancient Sinnoh people" and feeling resentful and bitter towards the invaders constantly claiming they are the original people of Hisui. I felt like he had a point in at least resenting Arceus for not helping him. (at least in his eyes). If he didn't die after he got defeated, I genuinely hope he turned his life around. Leaving Hisui and learning about other cultures, religions and legends as he travels the land. If he is from Celestican descent he might have a longer lifespan... seeing as Cogita is clearly ancient. IDK I might interpret too much into this but during the events of the story he did nice things he didn't need to do. Nobody suspected him except Cogita maybe. But he still kind of helped people and showed compassion, even if it was somewhat fake, it was a waste of energy to do so. Also the fact that he has 3 friendship evolutions and at least Togepi, which he took a picture with, he definitely raised and even EV trained them. The others are up to debate if he caught them wild but I like to think he didn't and cares for them at least. What I think is bullshit and stupid Pokemon writing is one if his lines calling himself out for not fighting along with his Pokemon, but the player does so. As far as I remember no player ever fought alongside their Pokemon. This is such a "we need to make the villain less sympathetic" kind of ordeal. Additionally I think it didn't make sense for him to pull a Cyrus in the end. Killing/defeating God out of spite would have been enough for his character... maybe putting Giratina at Arceus' place with him being the (false)prophet or something. That whole "reshape the world" thing, while in his case making more sense because he resented the clans of Hisui, was still a too extrem shift. I still think he made more sense than Cyrus who was almost tooo evil with barely any depth. I still agree with the list though (mostly)
No one knows the 8th Gym Leader of Kanto is Giovanni is he was a Gym Leader prior to founding Team Rocket (meaning before he became a criminal) and tried to stay hidden as Team Rocket's leader during the whole game. That's why when he gets beat, he retires as a Gym Leader since his identity is discovered. Generations hints at this in one of the Kanto episodes when Looker raids the Viridian Gym. It's like going back to work one last time after having a warrant out for your arrest to collect your things before the police show up to your job that they just learned you worked at.
Sun and Moon. Lusamine was actually really f-ing good. She had a good story, she was tragic, and she was somewhat mind controlled. The Ultra Games sucked. I played them, they messed up the story.
@@theauraone7755 imo: in my opinion. I love the villains, but Ghetsis was too mild and weirdly written. I can see what they tried to do, but I like Ghetsis more as a crazy maniac.
I'm assuming you were going mainly over Game villains but I would definitely like you to do a video on the series villains, primarily in the movies since they also have some pretty good moments that make them memorable to me
It's so frustrating to me that only one of the movie villains got an image song. Granted it gave Lawrence some MUCH needed depth and characterizes him as so deluded and obsessed with his collection that he's lost the ability to process the world outside it, but I still think he only got one to begin with because they cost Takeshi Kaga to play him.
Idk, while their plans *are* totally stupid, I really enjoyed the Hoenn games (original and remakes) with Archie and Maxie as the villains. There has never been a bigger “oh crap, this feels like an apocalypse brought about by the box legendary Pokémon” moment in the Pokémon main series games for me than the harsh sunlight or torrential rains that affected *the entire region* once Groudon/Kyogre were awakened. It was so *epic* ! That couldn’t have happened without Archie and Maxie.
I prefer Cyrus to Lysandre personally. When it comes to Cyrus, you get to learn a little bit about his past, how he was mistreated, how he only had a Pokémon that he couldn't touch for a friend, etc. The games paint the idea of a very broken man who never was able to form proper relationships being warped into something tragic (if admittedly cartoonishly overblown). Lysandre, on the other hand, just seems to be a guy who is crazy in a weird way. We don't really get to see a lot of his past. We don't really get to see a lot of the good deeds that he's said to have done. We mostly just see a guy who is continually barking about how the filth of his world needs to be purged or something. It's a case where I'm being told that he's such a good guy, but I'm not seeing much of it. I imagine this is why Cyrus tends to get more sympathetic portrayals at times, like the Generations anime or PokeSpe. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon even had a scene of Cyrus talking to the Rotomdex about how he had no plans to harm Alola and marveling over how he wishes he had something like that in his past and how he could've turned out a different person if he had. Meanwhile, Lysandre is typically portrayed as so evil that even the Ashnime killed him off. He tries to give a similar "Maybe I could've been different" speech in USUM, but there it feels less earned because we never see this guy's state of normal.
Yeah, and unlike Cyrus, Lysandre DOES form bonds. He's friends (possibly more) with Sycamore at the very least. Cyrus on the other hand...well, he has a Crobat but he likely got it the same way the player character does, since happiness increases as you walk with a pokemon and he walks everywhere, and he also works very close to the department store and massage parlor.
Lusamine in the anime is not a villain at all. She's a demzel in distress. The only reason why she fought again the good guys is because to got kidnapped by a Nihilego that exploited her feelings for her lost husband.
Not that a villain needs to be complicated to be good, but Giovanni ain't all that to me in the grand scheme. Maybe rainbow rocket stuff elevates him but from what I've experienced, he's just a dude. Sure being a gym leader is a cool twist, and Silver's father thing is a nice lil tidbit but nothing super substantial. But he's just the face of an organization you've been kicking the ass of all game, he himself doesnt have character unique to him i feel, again pre USUM at least
I’d say ghetsis is the most realistic because people have actually tried what he did before, and he was the most formidable by far. Many nuzlock pokemon have fallen to his hydreigon. I’d say he’s the best.
Maxie and Archie were boring in RSE but in ORAS they were given their own personalities, also Maxie’s goal also just makes more sense logically, since overpopulation could lead to crowding and more land could be required.
Lusamine hands down is my favorite not only 'cause she's the first ever female Pokémon villian team leader I don't care what anyone says but also because her mother beast form looks so epic, weird and cool all in one which not everybody can pull off in my opinion 💛😈
*Sun and Moon chapter spoilers from Pokémon Adventures:* In this manga, Faba was arguably the main villain, not Lusamine. He was a lustful bastard of a man who wanted Lusamine all to himself and *purposefully* caused Mohn's disappearance. However, when Lusamine still didn't fall for him, he decided to get his revenge by making sure that she and her family would never be happy again. Lusamine starts obsessing over the Ultra Beasts, because she feels that they won't abandon her, unlike her husband seemingly did. When the UB invasion begins and Lusamine starts fawning over them, Faba uses her absence to his advantage to take over Aether Foundation. When Lusamine returns from Ultra Space, he sends Plumeria out to kill her to ensure her family's unhappiness. This fails, but still, super messed up from a man whose anime and game versions are just comedic buffoons most of the time. PS. Speaking of Lusamine's role in the manga, I'd say her character arc is pretty much ruined there. For example, she hardly interacts with Lillie at all, and not at all in the case of Gladion. I dare say she interacts more with the main characters than either of her children. And in the manga, the Aether Foundation actually turns out to have *two* Cosmog, making Lillie escaping with Nebby completely pointless. And speaking of Nebby, as soon as it fully evolves, instead of Lillie, it decides to team up with one of the main characters, whom it has hardly interacted with at all. There's a lot I could say how Adventures ruined the SM villains, as well as some other characters, but I feel I've rambled enough for now.
@@thatman666 It could very well be. It made Lillie a side character *in her own story,* following the Adventures tradition of giving all the glory to the main characters. Let's give an example of that. You know Poké Pelago from the games? The archipelago that the amnesiac Mohn runs in the games for the enjoyment of your boxed Pokémon? In Adventures, it is instead a dream project for one of the main characters, started by their late great-grandfather. We never actually see it getting built, but the point is, where does this leave Mohn? Well, instead of getting to spend an amnesiac but still happy life doing something he loves, he instead wanders Alola alone, crying in sadness because he misses a family he doesn't even remember. Yeah. A main character quite literally robbed Mohn of his happiness in this canon.
@@jaretco6423 Oh, believe me. USUM is far better than what Adventures did. In those games, they had a good reason for it: giving Hau more focus instead. But in Adventures, Hau is little more than a glorified side character, who ends up doing nothing of main importance, other than getting the starter the main characters didn't have.
@@wikiuser92 Yikes. As much as I hate what USUM did the story dirty from SM, I think I rather listen to that than whatever the Adventure side of SM had.
the admittedly odd overlap of pokemon content and nascar was not something i expected.... but i can't disapprove. especially not when i see dale jr stuff in the background.
someone probably mentioned this already but it's (heavily?) implied that N catches and releases his pokemon. his team changes on the route you encounter him, and those pokemon are pokemon you can catch and encounter in the wild yourself.
HAPPY JPR FRIDAY
Who is your favorite villain in the series?
Lusamine
N from black and white
Probably Giovanni
Ghetsis. Cuz he's actually very villainous
Mommy Lusamine
It’s insane to think Giovanni went from a mafia boss to basically Thanos in the span of 20 years
If anything it feels more like a “No Way Home” situation
I still think he's kind of a mafia boss though.
@@Acrum99 if the mafia was Rainbow Rocket
Diavolo to thanos*
Isn't it more akin to Kang? Lysandre is more of the Thanos type here (Or Cyrus I suppose if we're talking about the comics Thanos)
I think it's worth mentioning that, while not outright stated in the games, it is HEAVILY implied that Lusamine was infected by Nihilego's neurotoxins before the setting of Sun and Moon. See, I'm pretty sure there's a notebook in Aether Paradise labs that goes over how Nihilego's neurotoxin makes a victim not want to hurt Nihilego itself, and do anything to protect it. While it does make the victim want to protect Nihilego, it doesn't make the victim a completely different person, only amplifying characteristics of the victim. I believe that the trauma Lusamine had after losing her husband was brought out full force by the neurotoxin, which is why she acts the way she does. Take this info as you will. (Sorry for the long read)
This makes a lot of since because no one is that I guess crazy for lack of a better word
That’s kinda dark to think that Nihilego’s poison slowly mentally damaged Lusamine for many years
That's really interesting. Lusamine having her inner feelings being amplified to the highest degree turning her into this monster of a woman is super creepy but also cool. Also don't worry about the length. I (am ashamed to admit that I've made) comments 3 times longer.
i think thats correct as well
BuT tHaTs JuSt A tHeOrY
Honestly, really good point and had no idea
JPR on Volo: “How did he meet Garitina? Why is he obsessed with being God?”
Me: “How did he style his hair like that and how does he have the time to do it?”
Giratina gave him the Distortion World special and let his hair defy all known physics.
That’s what he’s doing whenever he disappears for periods of time
How did he even shape it like Arcesus if he never saw Arcesus in the first place tho
@@EdwardLabarcaDev when the alpha pokemon is arceSUS
Lusamine being a crazy Psycho that fused with a parasite terrified me. The only villain that gave me creepy chills
I know people have mixed thoughts on the games, but I thought Lusamine was an excellent villain. Mf was almost like a female Ghetsis
And yet I got somehow turned on to that
@@paradoxgaming3181 same Ngl I was 🧱’ed up after seeing her the first time
I do think Maxie and Archie deserve more credit in one respect: they actually succeeded in executing on their stated goal. They wanted to awaken a Legendary and use its power to change the planet, and they did it. Whether you think their plan makes sense or not, you have to respect a villain that is driven and smart enough to succeed. It’s the same basic principle as Thanos in the MCU: his goal doesn’t make much sense to the rest of us, but he’s respected as one of the best villains because he actually did what he set out to do initially. I’m not saying Maxie and Archie are as well written, just that their success deservedly earns them more credit on the villain scale.
Thanos at least has some reasoning to his ideals, all maxie and Archie have is an ign quote
I have to say that Archie and Maxie (in ORAS mostly, in the anime they suck) are pretty decent. I think that people just doesn't understand them, but everything about them has sense.
To start, their goals. For the community, they just want more water and more land, but techincally, there are reasons for that.
Archie wants to expand the ocean, because in his opinion, if the humanity keeps making houses, cities and building things, they're killing Pokémon that live there and leaving them without territory. He really loves the Pokémon that live in Hoenn's sea. He says in Pokémon Masters that he loves the sea with it's exploration and the mysteries it gives. He thinks that with the power of Kyogre's rain he can be able also to destroy the existing technology and that he can make again the start of the times. Kyogre is the Alpha Pokémon, the start of everything, when the humans hadn't evolved that much the world, and Archie is a pirate. It makes sense that he prefeers the past than the future.
In the other hand, Maxie wants to expand territory because in his opinion, if there is more land to work on, that means the humanity can grow up their technology and make a better future for everyone. Groudon is the Omega Pokémon, the Pokémon of the End of the times. It makes sense that Maxie is a scientist, because he prefeers the future than the past.
If we take that into account this how great would it have been if N and Cyrus showed up. They would be great sponsors for a humanity/technology vs pokemon/nature dilemma.
It's also what I like about both of them, their division and stand makes me wish we had a way to choose between them and have the consequences be something similar to the black city and white forest in gen5, it's a shame we didn't have that for oras and it would fit so well too.
Scarlet and Violet: Hoenn Edition
@@bdt2002gaming yea, that's what I thought when I saw that the theme of the games where Past and Future, also it's curious that both regions are more made to explore. Hoenn has a lot of biomes, secrets, and things to do there, and Scarlet and Violet being open worlds seems like that.
I will agree, and will probably go even further to say that they were most likely a foundation to take Pokémon villains & plots into a new direction, but someone in the Nintendo upper echelons put their foot down and stopped it.
Pokémon: progressive and conservative
Rose was definitely a villain that had a lot of missed opportunities to be a good or even a great villain since there's zero reason why the energy crisis that would happen in a 1000 years needed to be done right now to the point that even Leon was questioning about it.
If they fleshed out Rose's story and mindset once more to understand how he's feeling and give a reason on why he's desperate to get the future energy crisis done as soon as possible, then I think he could be up there as one of the better villains and maybe even story in Pokemon instead of rushing it at the last moment and giving Eternatus zero build up.
Rose was basically the Evil Business Man trope honestly that trope is tiring. Rose had a lot of potential but remember it wasn't our story it was Leon's story.😒
I straight up sat for about 10 minutes trying to remember who Rose was. Chairman Rose was done dirty, just felt like Lusamine but cranked down to 1. The CEO of a large business who’s made out to be a cool hero/side character wanting the best for the world, but actually turn out to be the villain while a secondary evil team acts as a diversion.
Lusamine had more of a personal touch, losing her husband so turns to the ultra beasts and ultra space to get him back, while making it seem like she’s just after research. Rose is pretty useless, and has no motivation. He’s just a businessman doing business. Making as much money as he can, regardless of what happens, even if that means bringing the apocalypse.
Yeah, the game did a horrible job at showing his side. From what they gave us in game, the energy crisis 1000 years away and Leon willing to help after the Champion match. All he had to do was wait a day to solve something that wouldn't be an actual problem until centuries later. The game makes him look less like a desperate man who seems to be the only one who cares about an oncoming crisis and more like a massive, impatient baby.
@@FTChomp9980 the only flaw with Pokémon sword and shield is rose copying lusmaine evil plan
They did it better in the manga.
I do love that Giovanni continues to gain respect. Dude’s one of the best evil team leaders. His goals are relatively simple, and I think that allows him to flourish from his personality alone.
Yeah, he's just a poké-mob boss. He doesn't want to remake the world or fuse with alien jellyfish or become god. He just wants money and power and is willing to use violence to get it. He's *grounded* in a way most other villains in the series aren't.
@@keiyakins Very clever, I see what you did there.
@@keiyakinshe’s grounded in a series that’s all about breaking realism, hence he’s the most unrealistic one
@@keiyakinsi seee what you did here,so funny,so humerous,i died laugher i am dead now
My ranking of the villains:
13. *Archer*
12. *Chairman Rose*
11. *Lysandre*
10. *Maxie*
9. *Giovanni*
8. *Archie*
7. *Cyrus*
6. *Colress*
5. *Guzma*
4. *Lusamine*
3. *Volo*
2. *N*
1. *Ghetsis*
@@jaretco6423 I mean, he is Ghetsis' second-in-command and is unapologetically working as the official head of Team Plasma, so I think if N counts then Colress definitely should as well.
@@jaretco6423 Same here, he's probably one of the most likeable villains, I probably would have placed him higher if he didn't get sidelined for Ghetsis near the end.
How do you rank them now with SV?
@@BJGvideos The Team Star Admins are basically all near the bottom since they really don't do anything villainous at all, and they don't get enough screen-time for me to really get close to them as characters either. The same goes for Penny.
The AI-professor goes way higher for having one of the best boss battles in the entire series, though I wish it was more antagonistic. Still a good character though, I imagine I'd place it somewhere at around 8th place.
@@dobadobadooo Star isn't even really villains. I'd go so far as to call them heroes, albeit with terrible press.
Oh god the debate of if the AI even counts as an antagonist either. They served the professor but how much was willing and how much was what they were programmed to do? Because when they do the actually EVIL stuff, it's the PPP taking over their mechanical shell and using them as a puppet. The PPP likely isn't even sentient like the AI is, but they both represent the professor's personality.
I think the biggest issue with Rose is how there's zero reason for him to awaken Eternatus when he did. He caught everyone unprepared for the potential apocalypse because he's impatient and nothing more. Well it wouldn't have fixed everything it could have been a lot better if it was like, alternatives can only be awoken one day every 100 years or something so it HAD to happen on champion day
Rose´s plan does makes sense though.
And it´s highly tied to everything you hear and watch during your entire playthrough about the legend of Galar, the characters and specially about Leon. In fact, something that people loves to joke about is the whole Leon being an unbeatable champion thing but this is actually a huge plot point.
This because Rose was developing his plan based on his (incomplete/inaccurate) knowledge of the legend of Galar (the one that talks about how "a hero" was the one who stopped the first darkest day). So in order to ensure the future of Galar (by making Eternatus scatter wishing stars once again through the entire region like it did 3000years ago), he needed to recreate the events of the first darkest day. Because of this, he needed two things: to bring back the darkest day (a.k.a Eternatus) and "a hero" to defeat it (and in current times, this would be Leon, the strongest trainer of the Galar region). Which made Leon´s cooperation an absolutely vital part of his plan.
As seen through the game, Rose isn´t really a bad person. He loves Galar, had a huge role in his development as a metropolis and has a great eye to find talented people that could help with that growth (Oleana, Leon, Bede, etc). But he also has some really strong ideals.
And that´s why the scene where he expels Bede from the gym challenge for destroying the ancient mural is also really important. Because is meant to show that Rose cuts associations with anyone that goes againts the well being of Galar in some way or another. And just like what happened with Bede, he also got dissapointed with Leon´s actions.
Bede not only was the challenger endorsed by Rose, he was his plan B in case Leon refused to take part in his plan. A challenger with great talent that could potentially beat Leon and become the champion. But he lost this plan B as a result of what happened with the mural since he considered Bede as unreliable due to his actions. Although he was unaware of Oleana´s petition to Bede and how unintentionally on Oleana´s part, encouraged Bede to go to extremes to help Rose.
Quotes from Rose and Bede:
Bede:" If I gather enough wishing stars, that´ll help you to solve the problem that has been bothering you, right Mr. Chairman?"
Rose: "Oh, it´s not just about me. It´s for the future of the whole Galar region. And we´ll need more than just wishing stars. We´ll need a powerful pokemon trainer too. Someone like the champion."
Bede: "With all due respect sir, I was able to show Hop, one of the champion endorsed trainers just how outclassed he was. I´m sure I´ll be able to defeat the champion. No, I WILL defeat the champion.
"Rose: "That´s the spirit. It takes healthy competition to really keep the gym challenge energized".
Then Oleana interrupts to talk to Bede and this is when Bede learns from Oleana about the wishing stars near the mural and ask her to lend Rose´s Copperajah (without her knowing his intentions and making Rose disappointment in his actions even worse for using HIS pokemon to do it).
After this, Rose personally gives you, the player, literally an entire explanation about why the wishing stars are so important in Galar. Explaining how the energy from the wishing stars is transformed and used literally for everything in the region (and this is what helped to turn the region into a huge metropolis in a really short period of time. Around 20 years ago by the way). That´s how useful the wishing stars are. But they aren´t unlimited and that´s the main problem.
And after this, he even suggest you to check the hammerlocke vault, where the ancient tapestries with the (incomplete/inaccurate) version of the legend of the darkest day are being preserve ( and that is the version of the legend he is using for his plan since the actual truth about the legend is unknown by literally everyone).
Dynamax energy can last for a long time, but the wishing stars that contain such energy in a metropolis with an increasingly higher use of them can only keep existing with Eternatus defeat. So they needed to ensure their existence but everytime they give wishing stars to Eternatus for his awakening to eventually happen it also accelerates that moment and gets harder to contain (hence why you hear explosions every time you´re near hammerlock).
It´s also important to mention that the reunion with Leon in Rose Tower wasn´t Rose´s first attempt to convince Leon to participate in the plan (but the problem is that as the strongest trainer of galar, he was vital for his plan, so he HAD to take part in it).
Quote from Rose: "Leon, we have discussed this a hundred times already. And you still fail to understand what´s at stake? You, who are supposed to be our champion".
In fact, Oleana´s entire ambush to Leon on his way to the dinner with Hop and the player was their last attempt to get Leon´s cooperation by his own will. To the point where Oleana makes everything in her power to delay your (and Hop´s) arrival to the tower to gain as much time as she could for Rose to convince Leon, even if she herself had to battle againts the player to do it.
At the end, this plan failed and Rose got dissapointed with Leon just like he did with Bede but he still needed him for his plan, specially after the experiments required to awake Eternatus (the explosions you hear through the game and that Leon took care of). Because of this, Eternatus was already fully overloaded for Leon to fight but Rose no longer trusted in Leon´s promises to help with the plan, which is why the plan couldn´t be delayed. Once again, he cuts associations with anyone that he considers failed to Galar.
So given the situation he needed to force Leon to cooperate (by awakening Eternatus in a way that Leon couldn´t ignore: during the final match of the gym challenge).
Quotes from Rose:
" I think it´s time to bring the darkest day. All for the sake of Galar.But I´m in a bit of a pickle. The energy released by the darkest day it´s too much for us to contain."
"I´m sorry it´s come to this. But it´s you who forced my hand, Leon. You refused to listen"
"In order to solve the energy issue, we awakened Eternatus but we couldn´t control it. The champion still came to aid me, even at the cost of abandoning the match. Indeed, just like a knight in shining armor coming to rescue a princess from a dragon".
So basically, the experiments caused Eternatus awakening to accelerate making it even harder to contain and this why their plan couldn´t be delayed (and it´s also why you hear explosions through the story everytime you´re near hammerlocke) and their reunion in Rose Tower was Rose´s last attempt to convince him to take part in the plan by his own will since Leon was vital for it.
But he refused to take part in such a dangerous plan and this became the moment where he saw Leon just like he saw Bede, but he was still vital for the plan. And because of this, he made sure to force Leon to participate in it by letting Eternatus awakening happen in a way Leon couldn´t ignore (during the final match of the gym challenge) and Leon had to participate just like he expected and just like his plan (that was based on the incomplete/inaccurate version of the legend of Galar) required.
And only you, the player, thanks to the fact that you went through the gym challenge, Sonia´s research in the places related to the legend and to the discovery of the lost ancient tapestry with the missing part of the legend (that hinted the location of the relics necessary to summon the legendaries that protected Galar), discovered the actual cause of Eternatus defeat 3000 years ago that no one else knew.
And with Hop´s help you were able to summon the only ones that could actually defeat Eternatus (Zacian and Zamazenta), just like the two kings (descendants of Swordward and Shieldbert) did in the past and saved the region (while also ensuring the future of Galar with the wishing stars being scattered once again through the region).
Sorry for the ridiculously long comment. I tend to write a lot sometimes XD. But I hope this helps to understand Rose´s plan with Leon and the darkest day and why he did what he did.
@@giboit. I understand a lot of it, I just think the execution sucks. Especially since Leon agrees to help, as long as it's the day after the championship. So it comes across as Rose just being an impatient baby, rather than a desperate man.
I do think they could've had something wonderful with Rose, but they squandered the potential
@@TechnoArpan
You're still not getting it. That wasn't the first time that Rose heard that kind of promise from Leon. That moment that you see in the game was just the last straw for him.
Many people confused the idea of dynamax energy having the potential to last a thousand years with the wishing starts (the source of that energy) being unlimited. Rose was aiming to restore the amount of wishing stars required to keep having energy able to last a thousand years. Because the wishing stars are used for literally everything in the (increasingly wishing stars dependent) Galar region. But only Eternatus was able to produce them and the last time it did it was 3000 years ago.
1:19 In the manga, there's actually an explanation for this. Several other gym leaders also help Team Rocket and its heavily implied they have connections throughout the Kanto region's Pokemon League. Basically, Giovanni being Team rocket's leader is ignored because of corruption.
So that's why lorelai and Agatha aren't there anymore
I thought the Pokemon league was still somewhat young and didn't have much of a filter or clearance to check for bad faith gym leaders. After the Kanto Pokedex Holders uprooted Team Rocket, the Pokemon League started taking more active measures with whom they accepted as gym leaders. Also, Kanto and Johto are considered to be fairly backwater regions, lacking significant infrastructure that other regions have. The Kanto Elite Four were environmental terrorists who sought the destruction of industrialization and pollution. After the big battle and a couple years, Koga and Bruno got Will and Karen to join them to hone their skills in battle and focus on the spirit of battle.
I forgot to mention this, there really wasn't a champion in Kanto until Red and Lance wasn't a champion, just a fill in for Red while he was recovering.
The Hoenn region was the first region shown to have good Gym Leaders, an Elite Four, and Champion that were cleared by the Pokemon League. They also had a signifier for who the Champion is.
Unova was the first region to have a Pokedex Holder look towards beating the Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion. Up to this point, Pokedex Holders only really sought to battle Gym Leaders for the spirit of competition and proving oneself.
This is also the reason why sabrina doesnt do anything when they begin taking over silph co, in the manga, she's a rocket
You can piece together what caused Cyrus to lead down to the path of villiany, which was address luckily enough, Pokemon Platinum by his grandfather in who lived in Route 228. Cyrus was a good and albeit asocial child, a good student yet never met with his parent's expectation. They were harsh to young Cyrus which is what led to becoming villain. When we have Cyllene put into the picture, we get more details, at least by speculation, but is likely what happened. She's strict, yet caring, and it's proven to be an effective way to urge the Survey Corps onward. So it's safe to say that the Galaxy Team thrived on with Cyllene taking over with her way on running the business, unfortunately her decedents slowly pick up on her strict side more which end up resulting Cyrus' parents' ill behaviour.
Also when I thought when you were referring to Lusamine at her worse, I thought you mean how she was portrayed in USUM, I think THAT ruined her character. The Anime is a different beast where it's more of a 'What If...' Scenario on if Lusamine actually put her family first, and was written very well.
Might I ask what was wrong with making Lusamine more sympathetic?
@@skeetermania3202 if you mean USUM, it wasn't that Lusamine wasn't more sympathetic, that was already covered in SM explained by Gladion. It was how 'Look! I am a Sane Good person the whole time' out of nowhere before Necrozma appeared.
Didn’t bother with the anime on that so I couldn’t speak on her tbh
@@LucarioShirona Aaaaand?
@@LucarioShirona Don’t spoil Sun/Moon for me.
I can see some of what Rose was going for. He believed, probably correctly, that there would be an energy crisis. He knew it would have to be dealt with at some point, and he had (or at least thought he had) the tools and capacity to do so, so why wouldn’t he? Why wait until people start to suffer?
It is possible that this was a “my life’s work” situation, and therefore Leon’s request to postpone the climax until after the League made him feel betrayed, causing him to interrupt the event as revenge, but we don’t get any evidence to suggest he has those sorts of egomaniacal traits which makes the whole thing seem really off. If anything, I’d expect his cold and calculating assistant to be the nefarious one who would push him aside and press the button.
That's exactly the point of Rose in Pokemon SwSh. The problem you say about the evidence is the same that made stories of the game missunderstood for the community: not making real changes and showing what's really happening in the game.
For example, not all of the community knew that Bede collected the Whising Stars for Rose because he was the unique person who gave him some love and an opportunity to get stronger when Bede was alone in the orphanage.
That kind of lost details of the game hadn't been really shown in the games and in the actions of the characters.
I think that Oleana wasn't really manipulating him, because her actions were just stopping the player from stopping their plan.
I just think Rose when he heard about Eternatus and the infinite Dynamax power he makes, he thought it was the perfect Energetic Resource to stop that crisis. I also think about that crisis did start on the games already. For example, we are able to see that in Spikemuth (Marnie's town) there isn't enough Dynamax energy because of the crisis.
@@alfernix As if the world even needs dynamax energy. The way it is being written and presented specifically screams power/electricity crisis. And I get the basic idea of wanting to convert over the dynamax-energy, but Rose being so obsessed with finding a solution is dubious at best. We never actually get a frame for what he has already tried, like has he tried gathering large chunks of electric pokemon or what? And even if he does find a solution, what makes him think it would still be valid 1000 years later? What if there is an accident and the power is somehow lost? And what about new possibilities that would reveal themselves in the future? It is simply not up to a generation whose grandkids' grandkids will still be far removed from the moment of oof.
But it would have taken 1000 until for the energy to run out. And he knew this.
This is a common problem I find with Pokémon stories when they try to make villains that are trying to be the good guys by doing what others will not. I forget where they said it (I recall hearing about it in a video discussing Pokémon game development), but Game Freak once said that the Pokémon world is basically a utopia. Even ignoring that, the Pokémon world is very much idealized in its presentation and setup. This causes a major problem though, as while the villain motivations might make sense when compared to 'the real world', they don't make sense when compared to the Pokémon world.
- Maxie wanted to expand the landmass to further human development, and while we get some of that with Sea Mauville and the decommissioned New Mauville site, there isn't much there.
- Archie wanted to return nature back to its natural state to fix the environment, but we don't see any pollution, deforestation, Pokémon ecosystem damage, or anything else that would fall under that banner.
- Lysandre thought to save the world you'd have to lower the population and preserve what's left, but we never hear about any overpopulation problems in Kalos.
- Rose wants to resolve an energy crisis, but that's not shown to be a major problem in Galar's region. I never played Sword and Shield, so maybe I'm wrong here, but it doesn't look like power supply problems are a major deal.
These motivations don't work because Pokemon is set up as an idealized world, causing a disconnect between how the villains perceive reality and what we're actually shown. Selfish villains like Cyrus an Ghetsis may have simpler motivations by comparison, but they aren't at odds with the worlds they live in, so they still work no matter how you establish the given region.
@@flarestorm9417 Well yeah, the power is going out in 1000 years, as is evident in what is being discussed here.
Not saying this to validate Rose as a villain because that is exactly the issue(It really should have been 10 years or even 1 year, lol), I am just saying that I feel it would actually be more bizarre to see signs of the power supplies failing in this given setting.
For Lusamine, I should point out that in original version it's implied through dialog and pokedex entries suggest that the Nihilego attack from before the game caused Lusamine to get infected with it's neurotoxins that effected Lusamine's preexisting mindset to the point of insanity. Which is why she is more notably stable in the Ultra remakes
As for Volo, I should add that part of his motivation is that he seems to be a religious fanatic of Arceus. Doesn't discredit what you said though
Chairman rose’s story in the anime: my father died working in a coal mine, so I’m doing this to make sure this never happens again
Chairman rose’s story in the games: coal going to run out in 1000 years so i behave like 5 year old and panik
I'm conflicted with Lusamine. As far as I'm concerned she has 3 different interpretations. First is the SM rendition which we all know is good. Second is the anime and I don't mind her there. She was definitely a different character but they changed enough to where I feel she's still enjoyable with all her differences and is also a nice little "what if she wasn't consumed by loss and didn't go crazy" scenario. What I cannot say was enjoyable was her third rendition in USUM. It's a horrible mix between crazy SM game Lusamine and nice SM anime Lusamine taking this still terrible person currently trying to drain what's essentially a baby to make Ultra Wormholes into this unsung hero trying to save the world from Necrozma.
Not to mention that the abusive dynamic between her and Lillie/Gladion is STILL there despite Nihilego not influencing her. She still has Pokémon frozen in her room, still mistreats Lillie, you still battle her for virtually no reason. It didn’t make any sense to me, she somehow was more logical when she was insane due to Nihilego’s influence in SM.
I think you missed the point. USUM Lusamine is no "unsung hero", she's explicitly said to be a selfish and controlling person who wants to defeat or capture Necrozma as a false empowerment of herself and a way to cheat past having to actually work past her trauma and be a better person to her family, company, Pokemon, etc. The "I will save Alola's light" rhetoric was shown to be bullshit because her provoking Necrozma is what CAUSES it to break loose into Alola and take its light.
@@incrediblefunk7220personally i thought she went to go through what she did in Sun and Moon but her Nilhigo and Guzma got bitched slapped by Necrozama
This makes me think Necrozama grabbed Mohn and she is hell bent on vengeance
Cyrus flat-out says that he's lying to his followers about his plans. His followers think they're working towards just making a better world for all of them.
It's also odd because he does confirm that others will be in his new world. He also lies to us to provoke us at a few points (remember how he says he'll blow up Celestic Town if we oppose him, we do it anyway, and he praises us and leaves?) so who knows if he was telling US the truth when he said that?
@@BJGvideosCyrus really went "Damn you called my bluff, I am actually impressed"
@@John-Stark Basically
I REALLY wish we got more motivation for Volo. If he was driven by wanting some specific answer like why his ancestral people, the Celestica, were driven from Hisui, then he could even be considered sympathetic. As it was we get a guy who's yandere for God, wanting both to praise Arceus as well as destroy it for not loving him. And I also feel like his story should have tied in with learning more about Cogita. Why is her reaction to him so...stilted? Why is her reaction to finding about his plan "ah yeah that happens sometimes with people who get obsessed with legends, don't think any more about this guy who was your best friend until he tried to kill you, now, do you want to hear more legends? I won't let you say no"?
If he had been able to keep up his facade just a few minutes more, I think we would have just handed him the plates ourselves. If he had said he didn't want to risk us and he would open the way to make sure it was safe, we would have gladly given them over. Heck, if he just told us "can you help me meet Arceus?", we would have. And I think if he thought about it, he would have eventually realized that if he had no reason to hate us. After all, we had no say in Arceus's decision, and should by all rights hate it even more than he does. Heck, he could have played into that, if he had just realized that vital piece of information.
My tops are Cyrus and Lusamine, and even though I usually put Volo in with them because they all compelled me to defeat them but I also felt like they needed HELP, like we should be able to reach out to them afterwards (and with Lusamine she DID get help, which was great), Volo's utter lack of backstory knocks him down a peg.
Bottom of the barrel are anime Cyrus and Ultra Lusamine. Ugh. Talk about utterly missing the point of both characters.
I don't know who anime Cyrus is but he sure isn't me
@@TeamGalactic-Cyrus Yes, exactly. He did look a lot like you but he was probably an identity thief.
And anime Ghetsis and Colress
I think it’s important to note that Ghetsis did crucify the gen 5 gym leaders and it’s implied that he killed a kid
I'd say the villains in the spin off series were pretty cool like team cipher, team dim sun, and go rock squad
Dont't forget PMD with Team Meanies and Darkrai.
@@SSBBPOKEFAN and pokepark2’s darkrai
@@SSBBPOKEFAN I personally don't like PMD2 Darkrai as much as most other incarnations of Darkrai, like it's one of the only versions of the character that is just evil instead of being misunderstood which makes him less interesting.
He's a good and fun villain, I just feel he's kinda disappointing for PMD2 since other characters in the game have a lot more depth than him.
He also doesn't really fit in the "bad Pokemon don't exist anywhere" game, since he's basically just 100% bad.
Dusknoir's a much better villain imo and my fave character in the game, really amazing character arc.
Go Rock Squad and Go Rock Quads have to be the best pun that they've ever come up with.
@@usermcskull4713 Dusknoir is, imo, the best antagonist of the entire franchise, period.
I love Ghetsis. He's wants to control everything and has the schemes to do it but always teeters on madman especially when things don't go his way. I feel like his only problem is thst he's in Black and White. This whole game has been showing you N's side and how you might not be wrong but neither is he leading to a climactic clash of ideals at the end of the game.....only for Ghetsis to come in and be like "no wait, I made N this way soley to further my own goals." It kinda kicks the grey area in the face a bit in my opinion.
Tbf I feel with Ghetsis, his role in the story doesn’t give a definitive answer to the clash between you and N. N himself admits that listening to other people’s opinions and beliefs is important, that’s what he took away from it because through the game, he was stubborn. He only believed in his way or the highway, like when he lambasted Juniper for being in possession of a Pokedex. Ghetsis doesn’t undermine that at all, he instead places the final confirmation that N was manipulated into going down this path. But that doesn’t take away the fact that N believed in truths or ideals even after this revelation, it consolidates his beliefs on the world and the main character does the same with their beliefs.
This video makes me want to see you read and cover the Manga since it's easily the pokemon IP with the most fleshed out character writing and the villains specifically are given a lot more focus. Giovanni for example goes from "mob boss who stays one step ahead of everyone except Red" to a really nuanced and impactful character who shows up many times and has a lot of ripple effects even when he doesn't
So specifically Pokespe then. There are many manga series.
@@BJGvideos I'm aware, but obviously 99% of people who say 'the manga' mean the one that 's been around for Pokemon's entire lifetime
@@Pwrplus5 But Pocket Monsters is even older, and there was a gag manga that even predates that.
Giovanni in Pokespe was a fairly one dimensional villain. Yeah, he truly loved his son and respected Red but that all he has. Outside of it, he had little to no personality. And every time he helps the heroes to protect the world from greater threats, it's purely for selfish reasons (either because his own life is threatened or because it would impossible to rule the world that's already destroyed). And he's never really helpful in any of his "enemy mine" situation. In Yellow, he fights Lance but falls in his trap and ends up making things worse. In HGSS, his disease gets the better of him and he faints after few attacks. In ORAS, he saves the heroes (because they would be useful for him) but outside of this, he does absolutely nothing.
Whereas Giovanni from the games is a better character than he's given credit for. He shows respect for his enemies and his grunts, he pretty clearly cares for the members of Team Rocket and his son, Silver, he values teamwork and bounds between people. He has plenty of principles and standards and every game fleshes his character further.
I only read the Hoenn part, but Archie and Maxie wre terrifying. More so because it wasnt them entirely who were doing it
I feel that each villain leader have something to learnt from:
Giovanni: Bad guy exist and irl they are able to mix in with the good people (he being a gym leader)
Archie and Maxie: Their motives depict the environmental issues irl
Cyrus: There is no perfection irl and we have to live with it
Ghetsis: That there are people that actually so evil (bringing up a child, foster a cult-like group, actually wont hesitate to kill children)
Lysandre: TBH, I still dk his agenda, thinking and backstory
Lusamine: How having ur desire overcome you can turn you into
Rose: It is not good to overthink and overworry for future stuff, it may even harm you and other people in the process
Volo: Innocent and helpful people may backstab/show you their actual true self
You forgot ya boy 😤
Lysandre's about people destroying the world and overpopulation being a problem, in Y
He's about preserving the present beauty the world has to offer without letting it deteriorate in X
Idk how well the X version lines up with real life, but it's certainly interesting
Sada and Turo--even horrible people can have a kernel of humanity and compassion to them
And then there's Archer
Geovanni isn't actually an italian steriotype his japanese name (as well as most of his international names) is clearly japanese and team R as a whole is very Yakuza inspired,
Even so he lacks any official art, across any canon at all, that gives him any tattoos, which is a big thing with that sort
The thing I absolutely hate about Archie and Maxie is that in the original games, Maxie thought that the blue orb would awaken Groudon and the red orb would awaken kyogre. THE COLORS ARE DIFFERENT. THAT SHOULD BE A HUGE RED FLAG. Unless they actually DO control them and I don't know.
The biggest crime with Lusamine is that because of how Pokémon canon works (third versions override dual versions, remakes override third versions) the canon Lusamine is the weird mish-mash one from Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon whose motivations don't make sense. This applies to Cyrus too, but his character isn't as big a jump from DP to Plt as Lusamine's is from SM to USUM.
That's not how canon works. Didn't you pay attention to the Delta Episode and the RR Episode? The multiverse exists. The dual versions exist in different universes from the third version.
Nothing gets overridden. They're all their own canons.
ngl, Lusamine is the creepiest villain in pokemon
The creepiest part is how REAL she is. Space jellyfish aside, she's torn apart by grief to the point where it ruined who she was inside, and her obsession with her own loss made her unable to accept that her children were growing up. She wanted to keep everything the same for Mohn, and just by existing, her children went against that. She was so gone that she couldn't accept the passage of time.
As amazing as Ghetsis is, I think he comes second place to the best Pokémon villain: Darkrai from Explorers of Sky.
Darkrai comes out of nowhere; only showing up in the postgame. And yet, he fits perfectly into the story and has everything make sense. Not only does he make sense, he is just pure evil. At multiple occasions, he causes you to doubt yourself and think that the world would be better off without you in it.
And he plays dirty. He only has his minions do stuff for him, he fools the rulers of time and space into trying to kill you, he disguises himself as Cresselia to try and manipulate you, he gives you an illusion where your best friend supposedly joins him and wants you to die, he sets a trap for you in the Dark Crater, and he tries to escape after being defeated, trying to start his whole scheme from scratch. But it’s all the more satisfying to see him get his comeuppance from Palkia by him forgetting his memories like what he did to you
Well, being the villain of the best story in a Pokémon game truly helps
I’m still of the opinion that Oleana should’ve been the main villain for SwSh. Rose seemed more like a figure head and Oleana seemed to be more passionate about Rose’s ideals than he was.
I agree with this 100% she could have been the first true Female Villain (I don't consider Lusamine as the Villain of Alola for me its Guzma).
@@AdamDawson3 Lusamine was totally the villain wtf
And the fact that Giovanni is somehow a gym leader and also cyrus's I believe is the only pokemon Evil team leader that actually succeeded
Cyrus only succeeded in the Rainbow Rocket verse, where everyone was from universes where they succeeded.
If you get down to it, Rose and Guzma won. Rose stopped Eternatus from draining the energy from Galar, and Guzma got as close as he could to being a trial captain.
Spin-off villains are built different, and I would *love* to see a sequel video for them.
Totally. So many good ones. Purple Eyes is probably the second most evil villain in the franchise, only behind Ghetsis.
@@BJGvideos Finally, someone else who knows about him. I was beginning to think he’d been forgotten about.
@@bdt2002gaming Ranger in general has been mostly forgotten about. I think Jayden Animations reinspired people about 2, but even then I don't know how many people played it.
@@bdt2002gaming
The guy whose battle theme is also Red’s voice?
@@catalyst539 Is there something I’m missing here…?
Lusamine takes the cake for me. I think it's the very first time GF actually managed to put the 'twisted' in a 'twist villain'. From start to finish, the encounter theme, the battle theme, the nice and grand then eerie feeling from Aether Foundations, then all the hints we got that told us how she went from there. Not to mention it's probably the one character I could get _most_ sympathetic with.
The ultra games ruined it, not because of what they did to Lusamine. The infusion is wacky but that's that. It's how they changed Lillie that ruined it. The awkward, shy, unfriendly, but ultimately very loving little girl was a direct result of Lusamine's twisted mind. You can't change it to an all smiling girl. The `reconciliation' they got after everything also ruined the feeling.
At least both Team Aqua and Team Magma came into terms that maybe their plans were stupid after all in the end.
Than why do it?
AniPoke reference 😏
shhhhhh
For Maxie and Archie I like Tama's research on why gamefreak went with the land and water idea because of what was happening in Japan at the time. Doesn't save their stupidity but it gives the reasoning some more weight.
Ghetsis is my favorute villain tbh due to how insane he is
The more I think about it I think I understand USUM Lusamine more. I always kinda viewed her insane savior complex as a resault of the trauma of losing her husband. A warped twisted desire to try and save everyone even at a cost of hurting them and herself. I still like her total insanity in original sun and moon more but I have kinda warmed on USUM's depiction of her.
@@jaretco6423 No it still does. She's scared to death of losing any more of her most perecious people to circumstances beyond her control like what happened with Mohn, so she froze those Pokemon so that they wouldn't ever leave her or die.
I do like Volos fight, but it felt unfair. Legends Arceus’ mechanics made it really hard to gain momentum in battle as the flow was usually one Pokemon being taken out and then the next Pokémon coming in and immediately getting a revenge kill. That system becomes very frustrating when your opponent gets 2 more Pokémon than you.
yeah, Legends was SO refreshing in many ways and I liked the new battle system for THAT game, but in a long battle like with Volo it really showed its negative side too - OHKO'ing each other's pokémon, hardly any strategy (status moves) and crucially zero knowledge of how quickly a fresh opposing pokémon will move
The problem is that you don't get experience during battles, making it impossible to level up your pokemon if you lose the battle
Volo is only a good villain because of the twist, but DAMN was that reveal and battle cool.
Agreed. Honestly, The way they wrote Volo is frustrating as hell. His villain arc still feel rushed to me despite all the red flags through out the game.
Easy Volo for the top considering he wants to kill you with Giritina,Ghestis wanting to kill you with Kyruem in Black 2 and White 2,and Cyrus for wanting to erase the Universe to create a new one. Those are my favorite Pokemon Villains of all time!
Surprised that no one has mentioned Evice in Colosseum
Cyrus's plan is too goofy for me to take seriously. He's just a goofy edgelord who rambles on about lack of perfection.
@@dragonslayer7724 Edgelord? He lost all faith in the world when he couldn't rely on anybody from a very early age. His grandfather knew he was being abused and did nothing to intervene.
@@BJGvideos when is this mentioned
@@dragonslayer7724 Platinum.
When Cynthia’s Garchomp is actually the best villain in the series
Idc how lackluster he is looking back on it, when I was a kid Sapphire was my first game and ngl Archie totally scared me as a kid and I cant say how powerful I felt when I finally bested him for the final time
Not to mention the return of OG Archie in USUM made me so excited
Damn I was hoping you would talk about how great Giovanni is in the Adventures Manga cause you have brought it up a couple times in other videos but oh well
Cyrus to me feels like a sort of proto-N a bit with having a lot of implied abuse in his backstory, but it's not fleshed out nearly as much as N.
They also tease him reforming a bit in Ultra and in Masters, like he questioned the player if things could have been different for him had he met us sooner after learning how strong our bonds with our Pokémon made us, and Masters has even Cynthia think he can change, and he even starts seeing spirit a bit differently, wanting to complete it and admitting it could be useful, instead of just erasing it.
Not just there but in the Pokespe and DPA mangas as well, Cyrus is able to turn his life around by the end
i really liked the twist with Volo. But i had an itch something might be up with him since those organizations that are always up to date with EVERYTHING are generally a little suspicious.
I literally am so surprised by you saying your goal is just 200,000?? How do you not have over a million subscribers I literally can’t believe that. Your videos are so well made all the way around. I hope you hit your goals and way more!
Can we admit archies design in gen 6 is INSANE they turned boring into kinda sexy
Lusamine should be both best and worst depending on what version
In the anime Rose is just Galarian Lusamine but in the games he's just an impatient guy obsessed with the future of what he's created. It's pretty clear from what they WANTED to portray with Rose is that he cares way to hard for what he wants and wants it to stick even after he's gone. They just dropped the ball.
Cyrus was more ominous than x and y villain
The "I don't know, I just got here vibes😂" line killed me
I’m biased towards Lusamine because SM was my first Pokémon game but I think her SM portrayal is one of the best in the series
I honestly don't think Lusamine from the anime even should be consider as villain. Changing her personality is not bad at all. I like her dorky personality in the anime but I also love her insanity in the game. But yeah Lusamine in the anime is not evil at all so she shouldn't rank
Unfortunately, USUM ruined her and Lillie & Gladion development.
I feel the same way about Volvo a man with a god complex believing that meeting god will validate all the work he put in I find that insanely interesting and while I love the twist of him hiding I do wish hints were dropped earlier I wanna know why he’s like this I’m curious if he has anyone that follows his path of madness it just feels like there more hiding there that I wanna know anyway my favorite villian is eaither N Govinni or SM lusamine I don’t include ultra because they kinda rewrite her in those games and it feels werid
I feel like Cogita knew more than she let on but also doesn't especially *care*, considering she, immediately after telling us that this happens sometimes with people who get obsessed with legends, tries to tell us about more legends.
@@BJGvideos I totally agree with you I got the same feeling
@@summersweete09 Cogita is kind of a disturbing character when you get down to it. She's supposed to be this wise sage who holds this sacred knowledge, but she also thinks nothing of using a divine artifact so flippantly, discards her pupil the first chance she gets after repeatedly dismissing him as a slacker, uses the end of the world as an excuse to shop, as if it means nothing to her, and never talks to anybody but us (it's implied she talks to Laventon and Anthe but we never see it, do we?). And she also may or may not be immortal, potentially the last of the original Celestica, so could it be her long life and the loss of her people that's caused her detachment from the rest of the world, or was she like that to begin with?
To bounce off the Volo stuff, I think it's pretty established why he's obsessed with the idea of god and wants to meet it so badly
He curses himself and agonizes over being a visionary, for seeing and questioning things the rest of the world doesn't, and therefore wants to ascertain for his own eyes, by coming face to face with the god itself, and potentially dragging it from its throne, why he was cursed with this knowledge
This ties into his whole connection with Giratina, where he describes it as "The creator's banished son", and clearly finds relation to it through that sentiment. Which is why he then partners with it, and is embodied by it, giving in the process, a multitude of parallels to Cyrus from Platinum *further bolstered by his generations short*
Essentially he wants to come face to face with Arceus and question, "Why did you curse me with this knowledge? Why, did you make me your banished son"
When playing I compared him almost to Father/Dwarf in the Flask from Fullmetal Alchemist, and think that a lot of his draws come from his innate similarities to those circumstances, and compare Cyrus with Kirei Kotomine from the Fate Series
Best villain: Ghetsis
Worst villain: Chairman Rose (Sword and Shield had the WORST villains ever)
Professor oak is the real villain. Sending out children into the wild
I feel like the actual trainers need to get more appreciation and representation in stuff like smash. Not as fighters but like spirits or trophies and what not
I saw an interesting video about Cyrus In relations to stuff like concepts from Buddhism and psychological concepts like anti social disorder and/or even autism. In particular I think the stuff from Buddhism gives a lot more context to cyruses character which may exist in cultures like in Japan, but just isn’t as present in the west, which may be the reason why at best (as in platinum) Cyrus is just a good villain who needs more back story. Because from a western perspective i think it can be confusing as it needs the context established. Idk if this makes sense but comment your opinion, I’ll find a link to the video regarding this later ✨
Can you link the video? I'm interested
Me too
Idk I'm a big Cyrus fan and I'm also autistic but I just don't see it in him.
What do you mean "from a western perspective I think it can be confusing"? I think people in any hemisphere can, sadly, relate to the notion of being so isolated and neglected.
@@BJGvideosabout the comment about a western perspective, it’s related to what kind of cultural values and ideas and especially context there is when interpreting something. As an example people in the west may interpret one thing a certain way due to Christian values being intertwined in our morality and understanding of the world (even if you are secular), whilst in countries like Japan they may interpret and understand the same thing differently as it’s done through the lends of something like Shinto or Buddhist ways of thinking. For a more secular example, people in the eastern bloc under communism had one way of viewing the world valuing collective wellbeing for example, whilst people in the western bloc under capitalism would have had a different one, valuing individual profit for example. You are right to say that yes we are all humans and we are capable of having the same understanding of things, but being nurtured in a very different environment with different thoughts and interpretations and values, it changes how we view the world and the assumptions we have about the world.
Also, I feel the same about the autism thing, because I don’t have it too and I don’t see that specifically, but in the video I shared, I found it interesting none the less regardless of what extent I believe in it
@@toonlink1723 I guess to me the religious stuff is more original and multicultural than drawing from any one hemisphere. And that's more to do with the legendaries in Sinnoh than with Cyrus himself.
Lusamine *depends on which version*, but don't mention the difference in SM and Ultra SM. In Sun Moon she's a great villain, poisoned by the ultra beasts and driven by sadness over the loss of her husband. And when you defeat her in the end, you see a little bit of her old self as she's freed from the influence of the Nihilego. In the Ultra games? Because her ultra beast story is cut, she's just a generally unpleasant person who is leading the efforts against Nekrozma out of obligation. She's your standard workaholic parent type with no redeeming arc or personality change. She's flat and uninteresting. At least in the anime, her bubbly personality IS a personality.
Lysandre: I am the bad guy and will blow up the world cause beauty.
Cyrus: I'll be God now destroy this world for my own.
Similar but huge difference. Cyrus wanted to be God while Lysandre is poor man's Steven Wolfe let alone Thanos.
Volo is the first villain I felt sorry for in Pokemon.
I think he was driven to insanity over time by the toxic relation he had with Giratina. I believe that his original plan was just driven to the extreme over time. Wanting to meet and ask Arceus why he was abandoned and suffering and then wanting to prove to himself and them that he has some worth to his name. This turning into obsession because of his knowledge of the ancient people he has a possible relation to, claiming to be of the "blood of the ancient Sinnoh people" and feeling resentful and bitter towards the invaders constantly claiming they are the original people of Hisui.
I felt like he had a point in at least resenting Arceus for not helping him. (at least in his eyes). If he didn't die after he got defeated, I genuinely hope he turned his life around. Leaving Hisui and learning about other cultures, religions and legends as he travels the land. If he is from Celestican descent he might have a longer lifespan... seeing as Cogita is clearly ancient.
IDK I might interpret too much into this but during the events of the story he did nice things he didn't need to do. Nobody suspected him except Cogita maybe. But he still kind of helped people and showed compassion, even if it was somewhat fake, it was a waste of energy to do so.
Also the fact that he has 3 friendship evolutions and at least Togepi, which he took a picture with, he definitely raised and even EV trained them. The others are up to debate if he caught them wild but I like to think he didn't and cares for them at least.
What I think is bullshit and stupid Pokemon writing is one if his lines calling himself out for not fighting along with his Pokemon, but the player does so.
As far as I remember no player ever fought alongside their Pokemon. This is such a "we need to make the villain less sympathetic" kind of ordeal.
Additionally I think it didn't make sense for him to pull a Cyrus in the end.
Killing/defeating God out of spite would have been enough for his character... maybe putting Giratina at Arceus' place with him being the (false)prophet or something.
That whole "reshape the world" thing, while in his case making more sense because he resented the clans of Hisui, was still a too extrem shift.
I still think he made more sense than Cyrus who was almost tooo evil with barely any depth.
I still agree with the list though (mostly)
Cyrus had depth. But yeah I felt bad for Volo. It was obvious he was sick, and in that era there wouldn't be any resources to help him.
No one knows the 8th Gym Leader of Kanto is Giovanni is he was a Gym Leader prior to founding Team Rocket (meaning before he became a criminal) and tried to stay hidden as Team Rocket's leader during the whole game. That's why when he gets beat, he retires as a Gym Leader since his identity is discovered. Generations hints at this in one of the Kanto episodes when Looker raids the Viridian Gym.
It's like going back to work one last time after having a warrant out for your arrest to collect your things before the police show up to your job that they just learned you worked at.
I like that you actually appear at the start of the video, it makes it more personal
First!! Always happy when i get a notification from this channel!
Sun and Moon. Lusamine was actually really f-ing good. She had a good story, she was tragic, and she was somewhat mind controlled.
The Ultra Games sucked. I played them, they messed up the story.
God, totally. Ultra are the worst main series games because of how badly they weakened the plot
The best villain is Dusknoir from Pokémon mystery dungeon explorers of sky. Also the best redemption arc
We need a video on side game villains. Nobunaga from Conquest has some great motives--he's basically like if N had been an actual villain.
And Volo was actually a Well written villain
to this day I will never understand why they brought back the gen 3 Archie and Maxie designs in USUM
Cyrus' plan is over the top of course but he has actual characterization where it actually makes sense he would have that plan
But what about "TEAM SKY"
pokemon Adventures villains: "You know nothing of us."
Ghetsis was kinda weak in adventures imo.
He was a bit too mild for my taste.
But yeah the other villains are quite something!
@@magnus5747 imo. What does that mean? Anyway. Pokemon Adventures villains are a whole other story onto themselves.
@@theauraone7755 imo: in my opinion.
I love the villains, but Ghetsis was too mild and weirdly written. I can see what they tried to do, but I like Ghetsis more as a crazy maniac.
@@magnus5747 got it. Thank you.
@@magnus5747 You gotta admit tho, the moment when he beats N with his cane is really crazy Ghetsis style.
I'm assuming you were going mainly over Game villains but I would definitely like you to do a video on the series villains, primarily in the movies since they also have some pretty good moments that make them memorable to me
It's so frustrating to me that only one of the movie villains got an image song. Granted it gave Lawrence some MUCH needed depth and characterizes him as so deluded and obsessed with his collection that he's lost the ability to process the world outside it, but I still think he only got one to begin with because they cost Takeshi Kaga to play him.
They did Lusamine so wrong in USUM 😒 I’ll never forgive them for it. Ghetsis is my favorite villain of all time, he really is just freaking insane
The best villains would be the Pokemon anime writers
Idk, while their plans *are* totally stupid, I really enjoyed the Hoenn games (original and remakes) with Archie and Maxie as the villains. There has never been a bigger “oh crap, this feels like an apocalypse brought about by the box legendary Pokémon” moment in the Pokémon main series games for me than the harsh sunlight or torrential rains that affected *the entire region* once Groudon/Kyogre were awakened. It was so *epic* !
That couldn’t have happened without Archie and Maxie.
I prefer Cyrus to Lysandre personally. When it comes to Cyrus, you get to learn a little bit about his past, how he was mistreated, how he only had a Pokémon that he couldn't touch for a friend, etc. The games paint the idea of a very broken man who never was able to form proper relationships being warped into something tragic (if admittedly cartoonishly overblown).
Lysandre, on the other hand, just seems to be a guy who is crazy in a weird way. We don't really get to see a lot of his past. We don't really get to see a lot of the good deeds that he's said to have done. We mostly just see a guy who is continually barking about how the filth of his world needs to be purged or something. It's a case where I'm being told that he's such a good guy, but I'm not seeing much of it.
I imagine this is why Cyrus tends to get more sympathetic portrayals at times, like the Generations anime or PokeSpe. Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon even had a scene of Cyrus talking to the Rotomdex about how he had no plans to harm Alola and marveling over how he wishes he had something like that in his past and how he could've turned out a different person if he had. Meanwhile, Lysandre is typically portrayed as so evil that even the Ashnime killed him off. He tries to give a similar "Maybe I could've been different" speech in USUM, but there it feels less earned because we never see this guy's state of normal.
Yeah, and unlike Cyrus, Lysandre DOES form bonds. He's friends (possibly more) with Sycamore at the very least.
Cyrus on the other hand...well, he has a Crobat but he likely got it the same way the player character does, since happiness increases as you walk with a pokemon and he walks everywhere, and he also works very close to the department store and massage parlor.
It's kinda poetic how Peta made that parody of Black and White when Ghestis made Poke-Peta as a front for his terrorist plans.
You say Italian stereotype for Giovanni but its more of a trope of having an Italian as a crime boss
He's also only Italian in the English version, yeah?
Lusamine in the anime is not a villain at all. She's a demzel in distress.
The only reason why she fought again the good guys is because to got kidnapped by a Nihilego that exploited her feelings for her lost husband.
And now my Friday is complete
Fun Fact, this is the first person/character named giovanni I ever knew
I’m a simple man. JPR uploads a new video, and I click it right away.
Great minds think alike 👍
Not that a villain needs to be complicated to be good, but Giovanni ain't all that to me in the grand scheme. Maybe rainbow rocket stuff elevates him but from what I've experienced, he's just a dude. Sure being a gym leader is a cool twist, and Silver's father thing is a nice lil tidbit but nothing super substantial. But he's just the face of an organization you've been kicking the ass of all game, he himself doesnt have character unique to him i feel, again pre USUM at least
At very least, he respects his enemies and subordinates and seems to highly value teamwork.
I’d say ghetsis is the most realistic because people have actually tried what he did before, and he was the most formidable by far. Many nuzlock pokemon have fallen to his hydreigon. I’d say he’s the best.
I've had many teams be wiped by his hydreigon. I'm having flashbacks...
The real reason why Fairy type were created
Maxie and Archie were boring in RSE but in ORAS they were given their own personalities, also Maxie’s goal also just makes more sense logically, since overpopulation could lead to crowding and more land could be required.
Lusamine hands down is my favorite not only 'cause she's the first ever female Pokémon villian team leader I don't care what anyone says but also because her mother beast form looks so epic, weird and cool all in one which not everybody can pull off in my opinion 💛😈
*Sun and Moon chapter spoilers from Pokémon Adventures:*
In this manga, Faba was arguably the main villain, not Lusamine. He was a lustful bastard of a man who wanted Lusamine all to himself and *purposefully* caused Mohn's disappearance. However, when Lusamine still didn't fall for him, he decided to get his revenge by making sure that she and her family would never be happy again. Lusamine starts obsessing over the Ultra Beasts, because she feels that they won't abandon her, unlike her husband seemingly did.
When the UB invasion begins and Lusamine starts fawning over them, Faba uses her absence to his advantage to take over Aether Foundation. When Lusamine returns from Ultra Space, he sends Plumeria out to kill her to ensure her family's unhappiness. This fails, but still, super messed up from a man whose anime and game versions are just comedic buffoons most of the time.
PS. Speaking of Lusamine's role in the manga, I'd say her character arc is pretty much ruined there. For example, she hardly interacts with Lillie at all, and not at all in the case of Gladion. I dare say she interacts more with the main characters than either of her children. And in the manga, the Aether Foundation actually turns out to have *two* Cosmog, making Lillie escaping with Nebby completely pointless. And speaking of Nebby, as soon as it fully evolves, instead of Lillie, it decides to team up with one of the main characters, whom it has hardly interacted with at all.
There's a lot I could say how Adventures ruined the SM villains, as well as some other characters, but I feel I've rambled enough for now.
When you put that way, that sounds to be the worst Adventure story arc that uses elements from its respective games.
@@thatman666 It could very well be. It made Lillie a side character *in her own story,* following the Adventures tradition of giving all the glory to the main characters.
Let's give an example of that. You know Poké Pelago from the games? The archipelago that the amnesiac Mohn runs in the games for the enjoyment of your boxed Pokémon? In Adventures, it is instead a dream project for one of the main characters, started by their late great-grandfather. We never actually see it getting built, but the point is, where does this leave Mohn? Well, instead of getting to spend an amnesiac but still happy life doing something he loves, he instead wanders Alola alone, crying in sadness because he misses a family he doesn't even remember. Yeah. A main character quite literally robbed Mohn of his happiness in this canon.
That's almost as bad as how USUM made an story an retcon from the story in original SM.
@@jaretco6423 Oh, believe me. USUM is far better than what Adventures did. In those games, they had a good reason for it: giving Hau more focus instead. But in Adventures, Hau is little more than a glorified side character, who ends up doing nothing of main importance, other than getting the starter the main characters didn't have.
@@wikiuser92 Yikes. As much as I hate what USUM did the story dirty from SM, I think I rather listen to that than whatever the Adventure side of SM had.
Ghetsis is the most evil villain based purely on the fact he slaps Lillie in USUM
the admittedly odd overlap of pokemon content and nascar was not something i expected.... but i can't disapprove. especially not when i see dale jr stuff in the background.
I love that you're showing your face more in your videos, feels fresh and interactive, and I like it :)
the pokémon world does have the same geopolitical crisis as our world, check galarian corsolas pokedex entry
Archie and Maxie are perfect Pokémon villains! their dumb plans are what Pokémon is about fun. Pokémon should be fun, not serious.
But even they knew there plan was stupid. Yeah. Those villains are dumb
If the Pokémon anime is going to end I would finally like to see team rocket disband like the other evil teams
someone probably mentioned this already but it's (heavily?) implied that N catches and releases his pokemon. his team changes on the route you encounter him, and those pokemon are pokemon you can catch and encounter in the wild yourself.
Any time I see Giovanni in a Pokegame I prepare my best pokemon to slap him and his Pokémon all the way back to Kanto.
Wow, we’re thinking exactly alike
I always wanted your rival. professor, heck even mom. To be a villain. You gotta right it well. But the plot twist!
Well you got one of those.
I feel like Colress is great because he represents EXACTLY the people N hates and was trying to stop.