Scalpers are raising the prices. And the competition is still weak hence why Nvidia doesn't care about lowering prices and barely lowering them for older gens. And inflation has a part as well
@@SergeySedlovsky Scalping isn't something you can throw as the universal problem with all components. Stuff like motherboards and power supplies have gotten stupidly expensive during the past few years.
These have been factors forever now though. PC gaming was always expensive and fk all performance increase per generation has only been a thing in the past 10 years imo. Used to be massive bumps now its fk all when we are maxing out chips. Either need to make CPUs/GPU dies bigger to cram more shit in or new tech
3) The power usage I don't see many people talking about how the way the hardware market is going we will eventually require more power than a standard household outlet can provide without it being a dedicated 20amp circuit. I am already there but I am using a sim rig. If the power draw keeps rising it could become and issue for others as well.
TRUE. BUT it is strange that we/they have so many new technology to make everything simple but people make it complicated and not in easy way or to do it in easy way
Everything is too expensive and nobody wants to argue for higher wages across the board just because they think if you aren't Elon Musk you don't deserve any money
If you're not working, sure. I think people really overestimate what they need to run the games/software they play and use. I built a computer with an i7-8700K and 1060 6GB about 5 years ago and it's still holding up great. It's easy to get into the trap of wanting the latest and greatest and I'm for sure in that boat as well, now that I'm beginning to look at upgrading. Maybe I'm a shill but I think with how much computing performance has improved even from 5 years ago, I expect there to be a jump in cost -- R&D baby! It ain't cheap! Maybe they could put out better products for lower cost, but that's capitalism I guess. You don't NEED a brand-spankin'-new rig worth 5 grand. It's a privilege and making due with older (even last gen) hardware might be the most economical solution that we aren't willing to accept. It's easy to blame a company for pricing their components too high. The fact is that people are going to buy them either way because of that boat we all float in. Either pony up, or buy last-gen used components.. do you really need that 15% extra performance? My 1060 says.. well, probably not. Would it be nice? Definitely! But definitely not necessary. Just my TwoCents. 😜
I've been a software engineer for over 30 years. I don't even go to forums anymore because the amount of nonsense and misinformation that people spout off was driving me crazy.
"16 threads sounds like a lot, but it's really not." Man I remember getting my first dual core CPU and thinking how amazing it was, how far we've come.
I'm running RDR2 (ultra settings @ 2k) on an i7/3070ti right now and 5 logical processors are actually working hard. 4 are barely above idle. I feel like I could've easily gotten by with an i5 processor. I also feel like I would have pretty much just as much fun if I was using an i3 processor, xx60 GPU, running at 1080p.
I'm still on the 7600k which is 4 cores with no hyperthreading. It's still doing pretty good, but it's limiting me since I upgraded my GPU from a GTX 1070 to RX 7800 XT
I remember years ago I was hyped on getting my first ryzen 4800hs laptop (8core16thread) and is super happy that my code compilation went from 40 seconds to 15, now I want those single digit compilations times with these new productivity beasts like the 285k and 9950x. Of course ram and ssds also are a factor in this.
I treat PC's like iPhones. Skipping generations makes the most sense.... I'm on a 4 year old PC build and I'm ready for something new. Doing this every year is absurd.
a rtx 5060 will cost as much as a PS5 and give you less since ps5 is closed an optimized while AAA games get bad pc ports cpus dont matter cause normal gamers cant even buy mid tier since its $750 for a gpu
@ I went from a first gen i7 to a 9th gen i7 in 2020. I guess I can't be accused of being trendy. When I built the first gen system it was a banger, now an i3 will blow it away. It was expensive AF back then.
I am still running a I7 8700 LOL But i did grab a 3080 12gig but my system runs at 2k just fine. In the next year i would like to upgrade my motherboard, CPU and memory.
The problem I'm having is that the parts I want are either completely out of stock or the price is being driven up artificially. Like I don't want to pay $440 for a 7800x3d when the price was $100 cheaper just a few months ago. It's not even the top of the heap anymore!
If you're building a gaming PC, then the first decision is ...Decide what resolution you are going to be playing at. Be honest; it can save you $$$. You can have a great time with a killer 1080p PC.
THIS!!!! I do 4k gaming/computing on a TV screen, so it needs a little oomph behind it. My son has a relativly tiny 20" 1080p screen, and it looks so sharp and crisp in comparison. Wouldn't trade my TV for the world (except for a newer TV!), but it is about size AND resolution to make a pretty picture... and CRI... and response times... and half a dozen other things. But a small high quality display will impress if you don't need the big screen experience! And even the on-board iGPU can play most games at 1080p with high settings these days. Getting a dGPU for 1080p gaming is weirdly becoming optional rather quickly, and even low-end dGPUs can get respectable frame rates at 4k now. It's pretty crazy.
@@duarteribeiro1520 Manufacturers refers to individuals, companies, or entities that produce goods, typically on a large scale, using labor, machinery, and materials.
Gotta do what I did, buy two, build two, and sell one to cover the cost of the other. I built two 9800x3D PCs, sold one build for $600 profit that went towards the other build that I was keeping to replace my old 3950. I didn't feel like I was scalping either because I think it was a reasonable mark-up for the build labor etc and in line with other pre-built pricing and a large discount from most of them.
The names do not matter IF a buyer pays attention to specs, performance reviews, and price. There is too much emphasis on this idea that we should be able to guess the capabilities of a very complex device based on its name. Ludicrous, and lazy.
@RegenTonnenEnte Hmm, should I get the Ryzen 5 3600? Or the Ryzen 5 3600X? Or the Ryzen 5 4500? Or the Ryzen 5 5500? Wait, they're all kinda similar performance? Why bother having anything other than the 3600 then?
Hearing tech channels spell out every letter and number for CPUs and GPUs rapidly turns into white noise. In my head, I don't hear "Intel i7 14900KF and nVidia RTX 4090," I just hear "vmvmvm sehn foh-nahn KEF and ni-vi foh-nahhh."
I’ve come across more than a few games that were still cpu bottlenecked at 1440p with a 4090. 1440p is quickly becoming the “new 1080p” in terms of the frame rates you can push with higher tier cards. The big problem is everybody wants to chase those last few percentages in frame rates when in reality 90% of the people that buy a CPU like a 9800 X 3-D or think they need one like that probably won’t even notice the difference that it gives them to begin with
The X3D line are kind of an outlier, as they bring something unique to the equation. Any game that can leverage that cache in an exceptional way, like World of Warcraft for example, will see a *drastic* performance increase compared to a standard AMD CPU, or against whatever offering Intel can muster in current year. In a game that doesn't really benefit at all from the cache, you'd paid for nothing. It can be a huge factor, or it can be nothing.
I think the real conundrum is when you go to buy a new laptop in the store, and all them say i3 i5 or i7, and they don't even tell you what generation it's from.
Tbh any consumer grade laptop is not worth buying at all. Get anything business grade used or refurbished and you will get a reliable, decently powered and repairable machine.
Computers are like cars suprisingly. They can last a decade if it meets your current demands, and you take care of it. Every year I try to justify the big upgrade but my 1080, and i7-4790k from 2014 are doing fine I might get another 4 years out of it.
depends what your playing, that 1080 and CPU wont and simply cant get good frames on newer ish games. I expect you're playing older games or strategy games that frames dont matter and you dont care about turn load times.
honestly depends, you may be heading into an issue on newer games if you want to play them but supposedly the cards that will last for basic rasterization (9070xt) may be a solution to not having to worry about anything for quite a number of years due to diminishing returns.... raytracing more or less is trying to provide a solution to a problem that was created ironically.... the best pc right now to get may be an intel one if it comes down to price... just make sure you put a thermal limit on the chip so it can't try to burn itself to a crisp personally i say do that to amd as well... running a 7900 cpu at 65 watts and getting 5.2 ghz... no reason to go higher
im in a similar situation. i7 8700k and 1080. still plays everything just fine at 2k. But a new 5000 series is very tempting. cpu will last a few more years.
Channels like Toasty Bros are unique in the fact that they show how well older PCs can run many of the more common games. They'll pair a Ryzen 1600X with a Geforce 1660 Super and play some of the most popular games at decent framerates. And they can even run crysis, lol.
7700x here, does a great job at 4K gaming, runs. My live stream in the back temps are still fine under 80°. There's room for improvement but not necessary for my needs and I think that's the main issue, getting something that is worthwhile for your needs
@jarchack I got it on sale from the Micro Center in Flynt, Michigan, in early December. From my research, it is very balanced cpu let's you game and dabble in productivity.
Honestly, if your system plays the games that you want well enough for you... Don't spend the money to upgrade. With the cost of parts nowadays, getting the most out of your builds and sticking with what works for you is always a good idea in my opinion.
but your cou will holdback your 6090 ti super mega ultra that u will totally have, bc u need those 2000FPS in 25k resolution. DUH these elitists are the worst man. just 15 minutes ago i saw someone who wants to upgrade from 2060, and some guy just replies "2060 is old"
Yeah, stop using PC components to compare your you-know-whats and everything will be fine. It's my PC. Bought it myself. Got as good price as anybody else. Shouldn't matter if Jimmy Fancypants down the block did break the 3dmark's bunghoolio record.
I agree on this, i have built my PC about 10 years ago now and i only ever game at 1080p as i never felt i needed or wanted to go higher than that since i only ever use 21'' monitors. It has been running even most of the latest game titles just fine, albeit on low or medium settings but that never bothered me since games now days don't really look that much visually better with higher quality settings i feel like except for better lighting which i never cared about. And as long as this system is running i don't plan on changing it
I really wish Nvidia, AMD and Intel would make a policy that you can't buy over 2 units per week. That would take scalpers out of the equation and only benefit the consumer, we know that will never happen because these companies rely on Sales and profit margins in which I can't blame them one bit.
What they are going to do in Cali from the fires about scalpers need to be a law not just because there is a massive fire. Which these people can supposedly serve time taking advantage of essential need items to the people that have lost everything. Which is just low of the low I have lost everything from a house fire so I know all to well how these ppl feel. The same goes for the looters they need to not see day light again praying on ppl. This should apply regardless as over charging is no different than con artist which in both cases the person selling is scum and the people that pay the stupid pricing to feed there scam as just dumb. If no one would pay the stupid pricing then scaplers wouldnt risk trying to rip ppl off.
they would be entirely sold out even if scalpers didn't buy any stock. manufacturers wouldn't make any less money by discouraging scalping, there's just really no great way to do it in the age of digital retail
I'm using a 9600x that i purchased for 180$. I've been called an idiot, money waster, and many more in different pc building forums. The efficiency, single core performance, and even multicore performance is immensely impressive.
Bro it's a good purchase, you're fine. People will have opinions on anything but don't have the money to buy shit. Your cpu is fine and will last you for years. Good purchase at a good price considering your performance depending on your GPU
I have just upgraded from a 2600 to a 9600x. I dont play competitive anything, Cyberpunk, Space engineers etc. I want things to look good so I dont need the CPU performance. The Gpu is always going to be the limiting factor for me.
I am about to upgrade in a few months and the 9600x is exactly what I will be getting and it will be paired with my existing 6800 XT. The 9600x is a perfectly good CPU and dont let others get you down, its not their money and they likely dont even have a computer that good.
It's because gamers want it because it's new and most don't realize that what they already have will still allow them play their games just as well or in some cases the "old" tech will even work better.
There will be no tariffs. They've been kicked down the road for many years and it's just a story the media uses to rile people into a pointless frenzy.
Just upgraded on Christmas from an I7-8700 to the 9800x3d. Yes, gaming is all I care about, but Jay is right if productivity is your aim then the 9800x3d isn't the right CPU. It wins games, not time in productivity.
Almost the same situation for me too. Upgraded from a 10900k to a 9800x3d in December. I am also a gamer first and have zero regrets about buying a product at the top of the stack. It goes nicely with my 4090.
@@Cwrigh25 One of the reasons why i own a i7-12700K is for emulating the XBOX 360 and the PS3. The cache and clockspeed is irrelevant, it's all about IPC for me and the core/thread count. I think the fastest CPU is the i9-14900K but that thing is so hot that i don't consider it.
Can confirm, as someone that hasn’t built a new computer in like I think 8 years, super confusing! I built one over the holidays because my system was very long in the tooth (i5 6600k with a 1070) and I had gotten some bonuses at work. I ended up going with a 9800x3d (I originally was going to get a 7800x3d but literally the night before I went into Microcenter to pick up my reserved parts they got a restock). I was definitely concerned about everything being said about the 9800x3d with regards to productivity, because my system is going to be primarily for gaming (at least for the moment) but not exclusively, but given how old my previous system was, I decided to go for it anyways. It’s honestly also super confusing seeing all these videos/articles about cpu reviews and knowing what is going to end up being an appreciable difference in how my system feels and what ultimately comes down to lines on a graph.
For mostly gaming, and occasional productivity, a 9800X3D is a great choice. And it will still smoke your old system for productivity. If productivity matters that much, then a second box with a cpu and motherboard focussed on "best productivity" can make use of your 1070 card for graphics. But getting the best current gaming cpu also gives you the best chance of future longevity. I can see you considering another PC upgrade in 8 years, but still being VERY satisfied with the choice you made today, because you won't need to upgrade it.
To be fair Intel are trying to do that with just naming them Ultra, problem is they need to have codes to distinguish between the different revisions and that's where all that weird numbering came from Intel always had it pretty "simple" with the number after the i increasing show casing the higher that number the better it is. Then the next numbers just show the "age" really. A 9000 9th gen, 14000 14th gen.. Same can be said with Nvidia AMD is the one who seems to be all over the place causing headaches with GPU and CPU naming conventions. I have no idea what is considered top tier AMD at the moment. Even though Jay said them about 30 times in this video, it hasn't stuck in my mind. This is the only reason I have really stuck with Intel. I feel so lost with AMD and I don't care that much to do the homework for a few extra FPS
Pentium and Celeron are good names but nowadays they are used for small CPUs on the side. Core or ultra is way too generic. I hope Intel brings back the silly names for the main chips .
Intel do it almost perfect, U5 245 is basically i5 but instead of 250 why 245 ??? Or U7 265K, why not U7 270K. And revision can just put on the last digit.
I'm happy with my Ryzen 9 5900X 128GB DDR4 Ram @3200, games perfectly, streams perfectly, runs all my editing software perfectly. Def if you are going for a mix case PC use, do not go with the 3D series, just get a normal chipset for production while being able to game at a negligible difference. (Sorry everyone I put 5800X rather than 5900X initially, fixed it, thanks for the point out)
Currently specing out a Dev PC for gcc testing of multiple device's FW connected via COM. The 7950(X) and Ultra-285 look really good. No GPU needed. People need to learn to spec their machines to a given use-case.
My brother got himself a 1080p 144hz monitor, Ryzen 7 7800X3D, a RTX 4080 non super, 64GB DDR5 6000MHz CL30 ram and 2TB storage. He says the reason for the 1080p 144hz is because he wants his pc to last 8 years and he's a devops engineer that he uses the cores and cuda for.
Honestly I think a 1440p monitor would suit that time span just fine. Thats quite a nice setup, its kinda not really getting the monitor and potential it deserves imo.
I am the type of gamer who likes my CPU to last 5-7 years, and swap GPUs every 2-3 years. I got the 9800x3d even though it completely GPU binds my rig (12gb 3080) because I am expecting to upgrade GPU this or next year. I am confident the 9800x3d will still be a bad ass gaming CPU in 5 years.
This is the way. Same exact reason why I bought a 9800x3D. I plan on holding on to my rig for a long time and just upgrade GPUs here and there for the next 6 years.
I find it hard to really try and predict how long the 9800X3D will stay relevant for in gaming. That said, I have one as well because money wasn't an issue and I just wanted my first X3D CPU to be the best. I'm very pleased with it.
Same here,just got a 9800X3d for MSRP price,so i was lucky. My plan is,if the 9800x3d fall off for any reason over the years,i can still upgrade to better cpu without buying a new PC,cos AMD don't change their socket every year. Even if they stop supporting am5 let's say in 2027-28 i still can buy the best/latest cpu for am5,and with that,it may even last until the whole am6 gen. Either way,better long term investment,than any Intel cpu,if you look at the upgrade path.
This would be a great strategy in a few months when the 9800x3d craze dies down and they're back in stock at realistic prices. Never worth paying scalper price.
Really? I was disappointed by my last build. All of the ram is the same and generally doesn't matter anymore. There are only a couple stand-out SSDs to pick from. You buy the top or 2nd from the top chip for your performance bracket of choice, and then the hard part is finding a motherboard with the connections you want. Compared to how things were 15 years ago its just so... underwhelming. And all the parts these days just fit or snap into place... no blood sacrifices involved, no sharp edges to snag on, nothing that only fits if you push in one specific way.... stuff just works and it's boring now.
It's always like that when a new high end gaming part releases. The new GPU's, the 9800X3D, new motherboards, etc. Funny enough, DDR 5 prices have been great and pcie gen4 M.2 drives are slowly getting cheaper. Motherboards are a killer but I think some guys get wrapped up in buying the highest end chipset. I'm running my 9800x3d in an MSI B650 board that has all the features I could ask for (could use more pcie lanes and SATA ports). Works great. People allowed Nvidia to monopolize the GPU market, which is the biggest cost these days. Generation after generation they raised prices and gave less for it, other than the 3090/4090/5090. As Jensen says, you gotta spend more to save more, right?
My 7800X3D was a big improvement for the games i play. I do play in 4K, but a lot of my games are quite CPU heavy. The FPS improvement was almost like going up a tier on my graphics. I am really happy with it.
Similar situation for me. Upgraded from a 10900k to a 9800x3d. I was able to use DLSS frame gen on my 4090 to stay in high refresh rate territory on the 10900k in CPU demanding games but there's still a noticeable difference in many titles after upgrading.
@ similar.. i play 4k with 5600 and 4070 ti super. Sometimes rarely the cpu drops below 60. cyberpunk rt ultra is a great balance at least with low npc. I am looking for the right deal to get on am5.. didnt want to spend $400 to get 7700x that is only 25% faster in most games. doesnt look like i will be able to get 7800x3d for a reasonable price so i should setting on something soon. Any idea if we will get a 7700x3d?
@JayzTwoCents, When I upgraded from my Ryzen 9 5900x to my 9800x3d using the same RTX 3080ti at 1440p I seen 20-30 fps average increase. But the biggest gains were the minimum framerate's which nearly doubled if not more depending on game.
As a member of team blue, what's ultimately kept me from upgrading is the exploding/oxidizing 13th and 14th gen CPUs. They claim they fixed it at a certain point, but with how poorly they handled it, I don't believe a word they say. I don't trust anything from those gens, and the core ultras are just too damn expensive for what you get. They're at one of their lowest ever points...
I have zero confidence in Intel CPU's after how badly they dropped the ball with the 13th/14th gen stuff. I'm not saying they can never earn it back, but I'm not going to trust anything they have to say for a long time - actions speak louder than words and they have a lot of ground to cover, uphill so to speak. Its still far to early to see if they have really learned anything or changed anything - for all we know Core Ultra's could be suffering the same problems, especially considering how long it took for the 13th/14th gen stuff to come out (and how hard they tried to hide it).
@@LoricSwiftyeah a lot of people feel the way you do until the huge bargins come along then your all out buying Intel stuff . Like the arc b 580 , yes it's a gpu but it's still Intel. So what Intel made some bad decisions recently but their history for a decade has been steller so I am not so unforgiving or really even care about a hiccup that isn't consistently a problem , it's different experiences with different users .
@ The Intel GPU's are interesting, but for me the software isn't quite there yet, and I have concerns about if there is going to be long term support - especially given the recent finance and leadership problems Intel is having. I am not spending $250 on a GPU I might only be able to use for a year or two. And its far from a hiccup, its been a disaster. It's not even that they had a problem, its the fact it seemingly slipped past their testing and quality control (implying they have none, or at least not enough) and more importantly how badly they dealt with it.
I think I’m remembering from back around release, but my 12700k e-cores run better/faster than the venerable 7700k i had before that. If I’m remembering wrong I don’t mind being corrected, but having that kind of power in the low power efficiency cores is amazing. If money wasn’t an issue, I’d upgrade more often, but Im a full time carer for my additional needs kid, so my income is a lot more limited than it used to be, but it’s also made me realise I don’t need to chase the latest hardware. Sure it’d be nice to have, but what I have is pretty good and still better than a lot of people, and more importantly, the games I play still play well for me.
A problem is everyone believing they need the newest or highest spec system. I'm an ex-pat American living in Australia. Wind the clock back 1 yr, I built myself a PC -13900K, RX-7800XT, 32GBDDR-6200, NVME PCIE-4.0x4, running to 1440P Monitor. I built my Daughter a recreational system in June, a PC - AMD5800X3D (one of the last ones here), RX7800XT, 32GBDDR4-3466, NVME PCIE-4.0x4, running to 1440P Monitor. Both systems run without any compromises. In fact, the 5800X3D system never ceases to amaze me. If you didn't have a higher spec system running next to either system, but particularly the 5800X3D, you'd never notice much of a difference. Yes, there are scenarios where one or both of these systems will show weakness or limitation, but stop focusing on what a system can't do. Look at what YOU do and build systems with your NEEDs in mind.
Have an i5 11400 paired with an rx7800xt, can run everything in 1440p without issues, I want to update to AM5 but find it extremely expensive, MoBo pricing is just ridiculous.
Can’t agree more. I’ve been building around 20 PCs a year, and most of the time clients ask for a 4090 and 14900KF, wondering if it will give good FPS in 4K or even 8K. It’s just stupid and a waste of money, even if you’re super rich. All that AI upscaling hype is overblown; it’s just sad. As for me, I’m still using an 11900KF, 32GB of 4400MHz DDR4 RAM, an RX 7800 XT, and a 1080p 144Hz 27-inch monitor. There isn’t a game I can’t run with maxed-out settings, and the 11900KF doesn’t bottleneck at all. Sure, ray tracing on ultra settings can be demanding, but what card handles ray tracing well anyway? I don’t care about ray tracing because I play games-I’m not watching them like a movie. DLSS and FSR are totally useless to me because they ruin the image quality. Honestly, tech TH-camrs need to do better than just talking about stupid high-end stuff. It’s like brainwashing naive users.
@@rocortega2064 Not sure if it's to do with the country you're in, but I'm in Canada and AM5 doesn't seem all that more expensive. During recent sales some of the best B650 mobos like the Asrock B650E PG Riptide, MSI B650 Tomahawk and B650 Aorus Elite AX were all available for less than $250 CAD. But not sure if that's gonna happen any more now that retailers are realizing Ryzen CPUs and AM5 mobos are in high demand. At the same time, can save you money in the long run since you don't need to buy a new motherboard to get a significant CPU upgrade several years down the line.
Currently running a Ryzen 7 3700x with an RTX 2070. Will be upgrading in the not too distant future. Settled on an RTX4080/5080, still undecided on the CPU. Was thinking 9800X3D but I've also been thinking lately how I'll be using Blender a lot more this year onwards. I use Photoshop a lot, for digital painting, not photo editing. I also game, after the upgrade at either 1440p or 4k. So right now, I'm juggling betwen a 9900x and a 9950x. Was already thinking along those lines, thank you for giving me more to consider.
Thank you for having this discussion! Gaming seems to be the only thing channels talk about and fps. As you hint at, there is much more to an overall system
I got a 7600x for $140 on sale and paired it with a 4080. The 4080 runs at 100% almost 24/7 when playing intense games and from what I can tell is not bottlenecked. I'm super happy with the build.
A lot of people on the thread are commenting about prices, but the real issue is that the dollar has lost a great deal of buying power in general. Wages need to rise to make up for the loss of buying power.
The cost of living is just the real expensive and it MUST be expensive for people to spend and keep the econemy going, most people are content with small stuff that last decades, thata bad for the econemy has people would just save and horde money till death. Soo cost of living is hight so you have to spend and spend has to keep money flowing and the poor under control while the luxury’s are cheap for A people dont have money for them so they must be cheap if they hope for any sales and B it makes the rich richer has they spend even more little for luxurys and can keep most of their money save up. One time purchase of 5k is cheaper then 5k purchase 20 times.
The 9800X3D being basically a mythical Pokemon in terms of stock/availability here in EU is what pushed me into reconsidering whether I would even make good use of it, and knowing that I don't want just a PC that pushes high framerates but can also do some occasional image/video editing or compiling code is how I've now landed on the 9900X instead. Would've even gone for the 9950X if the budget allowed it but 9900X should do the job either way.
I've wanted a 9800x3D since launch, but it has been out of stock (available for preorder only) in all stores here since launch. This seems to drive the price through the roof, and even though I can afford it, it doesn't seem worth it at the moment. My 8086k will remain good enough until the prices drop again.
@@thorbear Yeah, I'd just hold out. 100% not worth paying scalper prices when you can just wait until the craze dies down and it ends up back in stock somewhere.
I just did a CPU upgrade in December 2024, 3600x -> 7900x, and besides being able to grab that CPU for just $300, I chose it for the multitasking potential I get from doubling my core count. Yes, I mainly just play games on my PC, but I do it with Discord running, likely streaming to my partner there, or with 100 browser tabs open and watching TH-cam videos. It's not always about big productivity programs, it's just doing quite literally ANYTHING other than ONLY games. And the performance difference has been staggering! Not just in games where 1% lows/stuttering has been eliminated, but just basic OS performance like opening task manager or other programs. It's all nearly instantaneous and butter smooth now! This is all to say that I fully agree with Jay here - some niche performance increases from the "top cpu" means nothing if it can't do the things you need it to do. But honestly, these days, almost any modern mid-tier CPU is gonna give you great performance. My 3600x was wonderful for 3-4 years, and it's going to my partner next for her first PC - who will likely use it for many more years to come :)
I have been using a PC I built myself for about 5 years Specification: CPU: Intel Core i9-9900K RAM: 32GB 3200MHz GPU: MSI RTX 2070 Super So far the PC is running strong but not going to change anytime soon due to the huge pricing difference compare to the new ones
I’m kind of on a similar build, i7-8700k, 32gb @ 3200mhz and a 2080 ROG Strix, it’s slowly losing out at 1080 which I play at even with 5ghz clock on the CPU and pretty good silicon for overclocks for my GPU. The 50 series will most likely be the one I upgrade to, but man CPU’s have just not been appealing lately
Just want to see stats. My Rig is only a year 1/2 old. Not planning to update unless shows like 50% in rasterization. You will have to show me that fake frames aren’t so bad in other ways.
spoiler alert : in terms of pure rasterization, the difference will be minimal. They'll have you believe that the difference is enormous thanks to the software (generating false FPS).
@@toddblankenship7164The 7900XTX does just fine at 4k. You just won't be able to turn RT on max in some games. Fortunately, Hardware Unboxed showed us like 47 ray-traced games and the vast majority were pretty unumpressive in their use RT, needing side-by-side comparisons of static images to even identify the difference aside from a big performance hit. So far the biggest RT games are a 4 year old CDPR game, a crappy walking simulator called Alan Wake 2, and the feminist game called Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, which exists to be used as a benchmark tool and not actually intended to be played for enjoyment.
I'm still using my 3930K system (from time to time, for light gaming duty) and my 6700K has dual 3090s for local AI. And I'm also currently in the planning and research phase to deploy my 6500T to be my periodic PBS where I will turn it on for like a week out of each month, when the backups are running, but otherwise, the system will remain off.
My problem: I bought a 13700k. It crashed due to a voltage problem for the first time the other day. I'd already updated the bios to the 'correct' version that should have fixed this. Now the first thing on my shopping list when I get a job again is to migrate my computer onto something AMD. Never buying another Intel CPU / board.
I bought a 13700k around Christmas but I couldn't run the XMP profile on my RAM without crashing. I ended up returning it along with the mobo. I got a 7800x3d instead (which felt bad since the 9800x3d is only $40 more but sold out) and my system is running nice a stable with AMDs version of XMP enabled without any issues. I won't be using an Intel CPU for the foreseeable future. I would definitely suggest coming over to AMD.
@@sentryion3106 NEVER had a single issue with my 13600k ,,, NEVER once had any customer report an issue in over 100 x 13600k builds. Horrendous ,, wow look guys we have a male Karen
after not upgrading my pc since ryzen 3000 release coming back into it was very overwhelming and the prices today are astronomical. The improvement from generation to generation isn't worth the extortionate costs we are now facing I ended up setting my budget i was comfortable with and saying screw it this will do because otherwise id have spent hours and hours staring at benchmarks and price listings at new stuff that honestly isn't worth my time or money. Im glad im already in with decent enough pc because right now is not a good time to be trying to build a new pc from scratch. Not only are the prices bad, but the naming of new cpus/gpus etc are all very confusing unless youve been following with a close eye for a while, its honestly off putting
I follow the market closely enough to not be overwhelmed by upgrades but I have 2 machines both running a 3700x, one with a 2080 on a 1080p 75hz monitor and the other with a 6950xt and a 3440x1440@144 monitor. They're both totally fine for the games I play. I love not feeling obligated to upgrade, especially this time of year when everyone has massive tech boners over all the latest and greatest. I hope both companies sell a shitload of all their high end stuff, I'll be stoked to pick up cheaper used parts in a couple of years when everyone moves on again.
@@m.d404 they are about £200 or more in the UK, settled for a 5800x in the end as they are more like £140. I have a Rx 6800 and it's been serving me well. Ive just bought a 1440p monitor so I will see how the next few months serve me at 1440p and go from there.
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN yeah, waiting on how gaming at 1440p 144 is like now I have a 5800x . Currently waiting for the monitor to arrive. Hoping after this gen releases and the next ones are in sight before I consider upgrading again but we shall see. It's been great not feeling the need to upgrade for ages but it's kinda thrown me out the loop 😂
Jay, for gamers who like compute heavy titles like turn based strategy games, X3D chips with the v-cache have a huge advantage in performance (10-30%) over non-X3D for “simulation” benchmarks. This means in some gaming scenarios, you want X3D even at 1440p or 4K.
last weekend i built my first pc for the very first time and no matter how nervous and worried I was, all I kept getting told on reddit was how dare you buy the 9950x when there are x3d chips available!!!!!!!!!!!!
but they aren't available! Atleast not at reasonable prices and the 7800x3d at MSRP considering its now old and outdated does Not count, lol 9950x is great tho.
@mikeperry2814 another thing they kept asking was why I went with 9950x over 7800x3d and I simply asked isn't the 9950x newer? And some of them got mad that that's JUST ONE of the reasons I picked it. I told them I don't just turn on games on my pc, as as Jay stated, the non x3d chips will do overall performance, not just good in games.
There's also another category of games where x3d cpus shine which are rarely mentioned here, regardless of resolution - simulation bound games. Games like Stellaris, Factorio, Satisfactory and Rimworld etc where the issue is not the actual FPS, but how fast the simulation can be run is vital to these games. A few generations ago most of us all gave up on Stellaris games after the mid-game since the slowdown made the game literally unplayable. Each time-unit ingame took more seconds as the time in the game progressed up to the point where the gameplay became too slow and soft-forced a restart of the game. The Ryzen X3D cpus are much stronger in these types of games, and you can see at the the Gamers Nexus reviews of cpu which do include Stellaris in their benchmarks. JayZ should at least mention this as an exception to the reasoning of which CPU to choose based on what kind of games you're playing, regardless of resolution.
Yes, this is exactly why I'm upgrading my AM4 system with a 5700X3D(5800x3d isn't in stock anymore). Games like Stellaris, Rimworld, X4, Total War, etc, take up the majority of my play-time, so i can make use of every bit of cpu performance.
thats why I am looking into a 7600x3d or a 9700x for power efficiency, plus my 10th gen mobile i7 cant handle end game satisfactory without slowing down and stuttering a bit.
Another place you need a high end X3D style CPU is in simulation games like X4 Foundations, Factorio and the like, where a lot of calculations by a CPU needs to be made in a timely manner, and then whether the cache is big enough to hold the massive amounts of data needed to be held to make those calculations.
@@kevinsteinman8967 12700K is what I'm rocking! Though I'm on a DDR4 board since DDR5 was prohibitively expensive (and mostly unavailable) when I got it.
I have a i7-12700KF paired with a 3070ti. I feel like it's more than enough cpu for me. It's generally chugging along at maybe 30% with my GPU maxed out. I bet I can keep this cpu for a couple more generations of GPU's.
@@erictyler3259 it’s a great CPU! Before I had it with my 2080 and then I was super fortunate to actually be given a 7900XTX and even with this GPU it rarely bottlenecks. Only 2 games have I seen my GPU not maxed out at 1440p ultrawide, and they’re both over 100fps so I can’t complain. Lol I’ll stick with it for a while as well.
@@MistyKathrine Not a thing wrong with that. The 12 series is probably the best series that intel put out with all the problems with the 13/14th gen going on with the microcode. Course motherboard manufactures are at fault also for pushing extreme limits to claim they are better. Same on the AMD side of the road also with Asus pushing extreme voltage but not honoring warranties also plus AMD not giving strict guidelines either. Reason I'll never purchase anything Asus ever again.
Daily driving my 2500k / Z77 right now. Other retro builds include a 6700k, 6850k, 2 x 6900k, TR4 1950X, 8700k, 9900X, - 10920X, and 2 x 10850k's I'm working on now. Thankyou, and others, for the videos, both past and present. I've watched 100's of them, mostly in the last few years. Being an ex- military tech., loved restoring Ol' Muscle Cars in the past, retired, single and in a house, I have 10 Retro, semi- Clones with my own twist, builds on the Go right now. I've almost completed a Replica of Linus's first 'All ROG Build', that I hadn't originally planned on building. Hadn't seen his video when I saw a Helios Case on C.L. and bought it a couple of years ago. The seller told me it was only used for someone's TH-cam video but wouldn't tell me his name. I found out 3 weeks later when I saw / read the original packing/ shipping address and information on the Helios Box. Bitter, but Sweet. Damn Linus, 😂 now I had to bite the bullet, spent big $$ on parts, even if they're used. So now, influenced by you and other's, I'm building Ol' FlagShip Builds from the past I've seen or imagined . Thanks for the company. This Ol' Dog is . . . learning new tricks.
I'm still happily on a 2600k. Some of these stories scare me. hitching, stutters. With my 1080ti I'm happily playing snow runner at 60fps, while this video playing with 116 tabs. Its bullet proof, just seems to run happily yet people struggle with much newer chips... are they just trying to push quality settings too hard or are the schedulers really fighting them more ?
@@gt3911 Why do you think I haven't gone beyond 10th Gen. (yet?) I also have a collection of different 1080ti's and 2080ti's. I don't want to say I predicted future problems with electronics in general years ago, but I did. 😞
As a prospective new builder, I'd say the main issues are: 1) Case size vs cooler dimensions / GPU length / PSU dimensions. I spend hundreds on components and not know if they fit, unless I copy someone else's build. This is more of an issue with SFF but I don't want a massive case, so... 2) In depth gotchas for different mobo's working or not working with other components correctly. Everything's documented but with the best will in the world you can't read everything and the more you read the more conflictions you get.
Cases have manuals, which they post on their websites, read the manual to see if the parts fit. I built in a Terra case and a Dan A3. I had no problems figuring out if my parts fit.
Unless you go ridiculously large or overall space is at a premium, all that a slightly larger case will do is to allow for better airflow because you can fit more/larger fans.
Then the question is ,why didnt buy it when was 350 euro? 😄 I buy 9800X3d after the lunch for 560 euro,now is around 800 euro 😁 One mouth ago for 900euro I buy 9800X3D + X870 board + 32Gb DDR5,6400,CL30
The "madness" is called "Supply & Demand". Supply is the same or has gotten worse (I don't know if AMD still produces 7xxx series CPUs or they stopped that already) while Demand has risen up, because if they can't get the 9800X3D, they take the next available alternative, the 7800X3D.
The problem is that most parts are scalped. You cannot find ASrock motherboards within $100 of MSRP and retailers sell out almost immediately on restock. 4090s are still going for around double MSRP, and 50 series probably will too. We need better systems in place to prevent bots from buying up the most in demand parts to resell at twice the price. The issue has been going on at a major scale since the 30 series launched, and the companies don't seem to care as long as they move product.
Yes! More of this please - I'm not saying to not cover gaming builds but more coverage, reviews and recommendations for production and workstation builds!
If the one you have works, why get a new one? Just because the new one has 12000 pixel instead of 10000 pixels ain't gonna make you a better gamer, regardless of what the reviewers and forum troll want you to believe. Get an eye exam, every two years, as you may need new glasses and get Ophthalmologist to do a full eye exam and have them check for color blindness. Then when you go to the Optometrist explain what your getting the glasses for as lens SIZE does matter.
@@t.n.-js6ei Oh man... upgrading your monitor will more likely prevent you from needing that eye exam lol. Forget about pixel density, modern displays have so much better color accuracy, response times, and contrast which give a much more natural picture that is easier on the eyes. If you spend more than an hour or two in front of a computer every day, then spoiling yourself with a high quality display every few years really does help! What is funny is that you won't notice the different at first... and then a year later you hook up the old monitor as a 2nd display for something and see them side by side, and then just turn the old one off because the difference is too stark lol.
I'm a mechanical engineer and it took me a month of researching performance benchmarks to just break down and buy a 7800x3d for my personal gaming rig. BUT that's not the answer for everyone, grandma doesn't need v-cache for facebook browsing and neither do my professional programs or huge spreadsheets where intel still rules. It's the same as always, research is your friend and explainer videos like these are exactly what's needed to start understanding instead of riding hype trains. By the way, my cpu is absolutely asleep right now since I only have a 3060ti and a 60hz monitor, further upgrades are already in the works to actually utilize that performance.
Wouldn’t a x3d also do the job as efficiently or even the same as Intel If all you do is spreadsheet and browsing I have an Intel 13900K and I don’t use it for productivity only gaming And some programs running at the side while gaming (armory crate , icue, nzxt etc..) A x3d chip will do the same thing Only advantage would be if it was something like blender or scientific simulator program that I forgot the name of 😅 But for grandma I think an I5 or i3 would be more than enough
I said 4k gaming monitors are stupid... Here's what google said. 'Saying a 4K gaming monitor is "stupid" is an exaggeration, but it can be considered overkill for many gamers because of the high cost, demanding system requirements needed to run games smoothly at that resolution, and the fact that the visual improvement might not be noticeable enough for most people's viewing distance, especially when compared to a high-quality 1440p monitor with a high refresh rate. Boom.
9800x3d is literally sold out all over for close to MSRP price. Microcenter is amazing but they constantly go out of stock. Why would I get a 7800x3d from Newegg when I can get a 9800x3d for same price.
Not sure if you’re in the US but they are being restocked like crazy. Up every few days on Amazon, and Best Buy and Newegg have also had recent restocks The micro center near me had plenty and I went and picked one up 3 days ago It’s getting much better
This is too true. Was building a purely productivity (AI and photo/video editing) centered rig and every PC builder guy around me was recommending me a 5800X3D. All of the local PC, Christmas, Gifting Facebook groups and local Craigslist was LOADED with 5800X3D systems, occasionaly with the rare 7800X3D. I was like bro... Why are you trying to sell me a 4+ YEAR OLD SYSTEM? After looking into tons of reviews from professionals, you included, but especially from Tech Notice, who is focused on work in the Adobe suite, I build myself a 9950X system and couldn't be happier. The things a beast!
Too expensive way too expensive parts and just stupid components that make no sense older stuff are deliberately being treated as outdated and confusing name schemes and ridiculous practices
1:06 kinda random don’t hate me but there’s a blueish light on you or you didn’t color correct this footage and the contrast looks very low like log footage almost. Honestly distracting. Just fyi.
As someone who just built my first pc in November I decided to go with the 7800x3d. I spent around $1,500 on my built and also got a 4070 Super. The 7800x3d makes a huge difference in certain CPU heavy games. One of the main reasons I built a pc was to play Rust and that game is very unoptimized. The performance different of x3d cpu's in Rust vs other cpu's is night and day. I personally am very happy with my build overall. In most games the cpu is very underutilized as it can just run a lot of them efficiently. The x3d cpu's are obviously very nice but it's ignorant to say they are they only usable cpu for gaming.
Ryzen7 5800X and I've no intent on upgrading unless and until that CPU shows MAJOR signs of old age. it does what I want and it's reliable. I'm looking (feasibly) at another 2 generations of AMD chip before I upgrade. I don't do it just for the hell of it.
Great video ! Another issue is that no benchmark covers CPU intensive video games (4x, grand strategy, city builders). In those cases, fps is not the criterion but it’s the ability to play smoothly in the endgame
I went from a i9-9900k to a 7800x3d and am still using the same low end graphics card a 3060 12 gb. I play a few very cpu intensive unoptimized games. Rust and escape from tarkov both running on the unity game engine. With my old cpu my gpu was bottlenecked bad like 40% gpu usage. Now its cranked up to 97-99%. I saw frame rate increases in rust of almost 2x. From 60-70 fps on rust vanilla servers to 120 ish now. And 90-100 on optimzed fps maps on modded servers to now around 150-200. Hard to judge tarkov right now because how unoptimized the new patch is but it is quite a bit better. For these very cpu intensive games that no one benchmarks in the tests there is a huge increase. But youtubers would never know because they dont benchmark them ever. Hint hint.
a 3060 12gb is not a low end graphics card.. lol The problem is people really think you need to upgrade to the highest thing a company has come out with the moment it comes out, which is the biggest waste of money you can do.
@ A 3060 (a 2020 mid-range card) is considered a low-end graphic card in 2025. Stop living in denial. Two generations later, technology marches forward and that's okay.
@@Sorak311 Whether or not it still performs good isn't relevant to what was being said, it absolutely is qualified as "low-end" in comparison to the GPUs being used for CPU benchmarking/reviews, so still seeing a bump in framerate while not having a top end GPU is what was being talked about. Low-end is relative to current GPU options, not a raw performance metric.
the entire point of the video is about productivity and hybrid usage. There's a reason an Intel cpu was used for the productivity slides for the 50 series.
Frame gen is entirely gpu bound tho…The 28fps native should also be achievable with basically any cpu, yess the normal dlss super res brings it up to about a 60 and that still is on the cpu too but that should be doable too, the rest of the “frames” are completely gpu bound as they are done exclusively on the gpu. The biggest reason for them to use the 9800x3d is because it is the fastest gaming cpu and there would have been outrage if they didn’t use it, not because it would make a meaningful difference in the benchmarks.
I game on my 7800X3D at 1440P and it is great, I still do editing however on my 5900X and it still kicks butt. I do plan on updating to a 12 core Ryzen 9 non X3d to do my editing soon before the Trade War with China and other countries start
The realistic repercussion is that consoles will make a comeback. MS will very likely be fast tracking the next Xbox for 2026, with 5080 comparable performance for $800.
It's definitely gotten pricey. Top tier 1080 Ti's used to be like $700. But if you game in 1080p or 1440p there are plenty of GPU's in the $550 or less bracket that are more than capable to max out any game. You don't need a 4090 unless you want to run 4k with all settings turned up. So that GPU is catering to a specific person.
@@holdenhodgdon3756consoles are generally 2-3 generations behind PC hardware. AMD won’t be anywhere close to providing an SOC that can give 5080-like perfromance next year.
I had to get the 7700x wanted to get the x3d but at the end let's be honest 7700x was well enough the x3d is nice but let's be honest if you are on a budget just put the money into other parts like gpu / ram / psu (since each generation of gpu's is requiring more and more power ) P.S : love your work Jay last day i had to watch a bunch of your videos to optimize the airflow of my case :)
The cost to performance ratio between the 7700x and 5800x3d is absolutely worth it for most gamers! They perform nearly the same. The ratio between the 7700x and 7800x3d isn't worth it. At all! Lol! You made a killer choice! My son sold his 5800x and got a 5700x3d just to chop the .1% lows down and smooth out his SnowRunner experience... And holy cow! Go AMD 700 series! Great units for super reasonable prices!
The real problem is the cost-to-value ratio is too damn high. But a big part of that problem is a lack of optimization in games. When you have games that require the latest graphics cards to run (looking at you, Indiana Jones) then that forces people to have to upgrade or else they can’t play the game. I don’t think I’ve ever had to buy a PC component to be able to play a game except for maybe a joystick to play Flight Simulator 95
I'd like to point out, the 9800X3D does wonders for 1% lows. I game at 4k, mostly, and moved to a 9800X3D from a 5900X and my games definitely feel a lot smoother from any frame time nonsense.
What Video card? Most testing I've seen online show very little Frame difference when running a 4090 and the 5600x3d, 7800x3d, or the 9800x3d once you start playing the higher resolutions (2k and 4k)there's very little difference between those three CPU's, Nothing anyone would notice with the naked eye anyway.
@@toddblankenship7164 7900XTX. I'd say it definitely depends on which game. And that's likely down to sh1t optimization that the 9800X3D just deals with better. That, and the 5900X is on two CCDs. Maybe that was making a difference for me in certain games.
It's funny looking at old GPU reviews, back in the days of the GTX 280, 8800 GT, 3870, etc., noting that people had *fun* playing at 1024x768, with sub-60fps if they cranked up the detail, and how much Crisis put a strain on everything when it came out, yet people still played it (I bought 2x 8800 GT, the SLI scaling was superb). Back then 1280x1024 was midrange, 1600x1200 somewhat common, with 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 the highend, before the era when 1080p TV production ruined gaming resolutions, chopping off that glorious old vertical height (I loved my 22" CRT @ 2048x1536 for Oblivion IV, Crysis, Stalker and FC2). Nowadays there's this encouraged notion that somehow if the fps isn't 200+ and the resolution not at least as good as a hawk's eyeball then one obviously cannot enjoy the experience. It's all gone kinda nuts, and it's damaged game development I think because devs are now too averse to really pushing what modern hw can do as they don't want to end up with games that can't run at a bajillion fps, though some of course are now relying on upscaling and frame gen to cover the accompanying poor optimisation that's making things worse, introducing other visual defects and lag. Now we have 500Hz monitors and the beginning of 8K marketing, in an era where any serious attempt at boosting raster performance has been abandoned. The fps arms race never ends, nor will the tech shortcuts to chase the marketing numbers. I'm glad I'm happy with 1080p/60, beyond that is a money pit I don't want to explore, not yet.
Right. I don't get why everyone wants to play at 4k. I didn't start playing games at 2k until I got my 3070ti. I plan on sticking with 2k for a long time. It looks great on my 27" monitors IMO. My kids are still playing at 1080p on 27" monitors and I think it looks fine.
@@erictyler3259 i used laptops for work for 15 years or so, got uses to the ppi, when i finally got a desktop i got a 1080p 27" monitor and it was almost unused about outside of just watching movies because of how blurry it was, i jumped at the 4k stuff as soon as i could. i'll lower every other setting before resolution, even 1440p looks rough and i have diabetic retinopathy!
@@erictyler3259 Nobody's playing 4k at 27". LOL. At least, I sure hope not. I upgraded from 1440p 27" -> LG C4 4k 42". It's about the same PPI but gives me more physical space for productivity work. Then, for entertainment, I love having a large screen on my desk. It's incredibly immersive (almost theater-like) when the lights are off. I agree, though, that there are absolutely diminishing returns for PPI. If you're shopping 4k you should be looking at 32" minimum.
I did my build during black friday and I was able to get a 9800x3d. Like you said, everywhere I read was saying that's THE one. I wanted a gaming rig, but I also wanted to be able to do some video editing work. I watched your video and was thinking "damn I spent months watching reviews and going back and forth on parts and Jay now tells me I got the wrong cpu!!" So far, it's been good for what I needed. Just funny that you called out the 9800x3d like that. Good info though. Enjoyed the video.
been there, wondering why manifesting seems to work for everyone else but not for me. i followed all the advice, but nothing seemed to click. then i read Vibrations of Manifestation by Alex Lane, and it completely shifted my perspective. chapter 3 has this one idea that changed how i see energy, and honestly, it’s been a game-changer for me.
As a 2D/3D animator i'm just glad some of the tech reviewers are shifting focus from pure GAMER builds to more creator focused builds that don't feature crazy expensive parts like threadrippers and RTX 6000 ada gpu's. Like i'm doing fine career wise, but am i really going to pay 7000 euro for a GPU? Of course all production is sales driven, so apperently the creator space is growing. GPU creators must also realize most gamers who have a rtx 3xxx gen and up are set for quite a while.
It's about time! As a long time subscriber, I've been a bit depressed with your coverage of anything AMD outside the *x3d lineup. It was the same with almost every other channel as well. I built a PC during the cyber monday thru xmas season and the *x3d choices were none-existent or way overpriced. I settled on a 4080 Super/X870e build running a 9900x and couldn't be happier. Yes, this is a dual-use PC (Adobe/3D modeling/gaming/etc) but even outside of the productivity suites, I've had an awesome experience running games at 4K with this setup. Sometimes, I think the big tech channels have blinders on because they often have choices that the general public doesn't, so it was good to see this vid.
Built my PC in february 2020, R5 3600X, RTX 2070S, 750W Gold+ PSU and 32GB RAM. December 2024 I've upgraded to 5700X3D, undervolted it a bit, and the improvement is massive. In most games I'm playing, CPU and GPU max out at 60-70% load (1440p), capped at 90fps, temps in 50-70range on both, fans maxing out at 55% speed, so it's super quiet. Pretty sure it'll be good for the next couple years, at which point a new AMD socket will (probably, most likely) come out. Though I am considering a used 4070 TI Super, once the 50-series hit the market for good.
Intel sponsored. Guys don't buy 13 or 14 gen CPU go for regular AMD CPU like Ryan 7 or Ryzen 9 none x3d CPU. Risk is not worth the price and you get a better efficient CPU.
And given how long the problems took to show and how hard Intel tried to hid it, we STILL dont know if the have fixed it, or if the new chips are going to degrade too.
Thank you, Jay. This settles a question for MY most demanding application in my upcoming 2025 build: a poor man's Workstation for retail off-the shelf, hobbyist grade AI remastering and productivity video and media tinkering. A resume of apps that includes things like Topaz Video AI, RIFE-app, Handbrake, AVIDemux, etc etc
Happily running my 5700X and I'm not missing any 3DVCache stuff, at all. If benchmarks and numbers matter to you, great. If not, look at your wallet first, I say :)
I went from a 2700 to a 5700X3D & said "meh" ...it drastically improves the 1% lows that happen between scene changes in benchmarks, but does nothing for max FPS. I only paid $100~ for it, so it wasn't bank breaking enough to be an actual disappointment. But I wouldn't have bothered if I had known what the actual improvement would be.
@@holdenhodgdon3756It entirely depends on the game and resolution. If you play GPU intensive games at a higher resolution you won't see that big of a difference, however for competitive shooters at 1080p a jump like that is likely to more than double your fps. I recently did a build with a 7800x3d, basically tripled my fps in some games. I helped a friend recently to upgrade from a 3600 to a 5700x3d and doubled the fps in the game he plays the most, which is Fortnite.
I also went from Ryzen 7 2700 to Ryzen 7 5700X3D and the difference is barely noticable and I play Final Fantady XIV which is cpu-intensive and people parrot that it is great with X3D cpus. $192 wasted! I even upgraded my ram from CL15 3000mhz 16GB to CL16 3600mhz 32GB and no improvements! My GPU is 1070 Ti so I plan to try 5070 to if that does anything. with my current build, I dont get over 80fps 1440p in Final Fantasy XIV EVER.
I have the 9800X3D, 64GB of 6000mhz DDR5, a 3080 (will be upgrading to the 5080) and the Aorus FO32U2P and I have to agree with everyone here that keeping up with the best tech is getting to be so outrageously expensive.
When building a computer i think most cant be honest with themselves as to what its going to be used for. My personal checklist goes like this: - Set a realistic budget - Will the core components last 4-6 years (CPU/Mobo) - Does it have enough meaningful upgrade paths (SATA/M2/RAM/PCIE Speed) - Does it meet my needs? - Do i really need to upgrade? My last system i built at the end of 2022, after having my previous system for about 5-6 years due to slower game performance. Core i5 13600KF, 32G DDR4 3600 Ram, RTX4800, reused my M2's and SSD's. Wish i would have gone with DDR5 and a little slower graphics card but i wasnt honest with myself and went with what i did.
In Europe, they have tax included in listed price. In USA they don't so when a product says $750 it's usually $800+ depending on the tax rates in the state where you bought it from.
@@MistyKathrine I know but I figured the price everyone talks about is the one including the tax... but that would require similar taxes in all states and a bit of mental arithmetic... so I guess they don't.
9 out of 10 times American TH-camrs talk about prices without tax. As a German I had to learn that as well. Always thought, we get screwed until I looked into the American tax system.
I think the problem many face right now.. Is there isn't enough downtime to do work time then game time, then consume the hours of youtube/netflix/anime etc. Then comes, the balance of your pc and laptop specs.. There's no way you will tolerate a lagging laptop even for browsing purposes.. And windows 11 seems to be the worst iteration at catching Bluetooth devices nowadays. That's 2 high end systems or a high end laptop with a dock.. Personally my 4th gen Intel is still running OK. And it's not worth anything sold, so it's going to become scrap the moment I try to upgrade. Going to push it till one of the things mobo/processor dies
BLASPHAMY!!! What!? How dare you even begin to consider, let alone recommend, ANYTHING but an X3D CPU! And you call yourself a Tech TH-camr!!! But seriously, it's about time someone makes this point. So Thank you, Jay, for putting it out there. All of the drama around PCs moved me to switch back to MAC for my office. I've been building and supporting PCs for over 30 years. Been PC gaming for longer (Do you remember Hercules graphics and add-in cards just to run a mouse?) It's crazy to see people pushed and even shamed into spending $$$ on a CPU that they can't leverage, and may never be able to leverage. Their $$ would be better spent on a nicer monitor, higher-spec GPU, etc. I hadn't turned on my 13700K for about 5 months, so I decided to do some updates and make sure the intel happy bios update was applied and then I saw your video. I don't miss this at all. I still game on a PC, which is an AMD 5950x, 64 GB, 2 TB + 4 TB, and an AMD 7600. It's in an H1 case or I'd be running my 7900 GRE. Unfortunately the GRE model I have is just barely too long. I wanted to try an all-AMD setup vs. AMD+Nvidia or Intel+Nvidia. It runs great for my needs, although I'm going to move over to my 7700x + GRE build just so I can see if there's any appreciable difference. My guess will be not really. I'm playing on a 1080 165hz display. Everyone may need to step back and take a breath. That advice is not just for consumers but for tech TH-camrs, too. Personally, I think the constant drive to be "first" and to push the latest and greatest to maintain "relevance" creates the exact environment you are trying to address in this video. I'm glad that I pulled the plug on my PC hobby Life (my gaming PCs are essentially just consoles to me anymore). I know that's a radical approach, but one that I personally needed to make. Thanks again for the video. Cheers Rick
i went to reddit to showcase a build with a 285k for my younger brother and asking about how to properly set-up the RAM (gear1 and/or gear2) and i got freakin´ DESTROYED on comments how the PC was garbage for having the meme CPU and might as well have gifted him a garbage bag, that was pretty disheartening, he uses the pc for his college projects + blender and usually some light gaming (project zomboid, google play, pacific drive and so), everything strapped with an arc A770, which was a pretty good deal back then (drivers had matured well enough) this video was redeeming for me when you mentioned that not everything has to be an X3D or a 4090 (which i doubt these terrible commenters on reddit could even afford) and proved how theres a brutal hive-mind mentality when it comes to processors, or components in general, now i know i really did the right choice for his productivity. thank you so much!
I got a 9800x3d at launch because i wanted the better gaming performance compared to my old 5900x but I also wanted a CPU that was going to last me a while before I needed to upgrade again. I do very little in the way of productivity and the gaming performance of the 9800x3d is leaps and bounds better that the 5900x. I was playing Jedi Survivor at max settings and just from a CPU swap, I got over a 20% boost in fps with my 7900xtx. That's at max settings on a 3840x1600 ultra wide monitor. It was averaging about 115fps where as the 5900x had me stuck at about 85fps with the exact same setup. 30fps in a game that LOOKED like it was GPU bound was crazy. While the 9800x3d isn't the productivity king, it never was designed to be.
One of the crazy things that people don't seem to think about these days is that the current crop of current generation CPUs have iGPUs that are good enough for 1080p 60 gaming (as long as you don't get an F skew CPU). So if you're needing a PC upgrade and not sure about if you are going to need the horsepower for gaming, you can get a good Ryzen 9600x / Intel 14600k system without a discrete GPU right now and then buy a GPU later if you actually need it.
Major problems.
1)Cost
2)Improvement from previous generation doesn't match the Price.
Scalpers are raising the prices.
And the competition is still weak hence why Nvidia doesn't care about lowering prices and barely lowering them for older gens.
And inflation has a part as well
@@SergeySedlovsky Scalping isn't something you can throw as the universal problem with all components. Stuff like motherboards and power supplies have gotten stupidly expensive during the past few years.
The sweet spot is today (01 2025) to buy like an amd series 5000 & 7000 for a desktop gaming config. The AMD 5800 3D seems to be super good.
These have been factors forever now though. PC gaming was always expensive and fk all performance increase per generation has only been a thing in the past 10 years imo. Used to be massive bumps now its fk all when we are maxing out chips. Either need to make CPUs/GPU dies bigger to cram more shit in or new tech
3) The power usage
I don't see many people talking about how the way the hardware market is going we will eventually require more power than a standard household outlet can provide without it being a dedicated 20amp circuit. I am already there but I am using a sim rig. If the power draw keeps rising it could become and issue for others as well.
The problem is that almost everything is too expensive
TRUE. BUT it is strange that we/they have so many new technology to make everything simple but people make it complicated and not in easy way or to do it in easy way
Time to boss up, man. Get your bag up
you forgot to add that each new release come with a price hike
Everything is too expensive and nobody wants to argue for higher wages across the board just because they think if you aren't Elon Musk you don't deserve any money
If you're not working, sure. I think people really overestimate what they need to run the games/software they play and use. I built a computer with an i7-8700K and 1060 6GB about 5 years ago and it's still holding up great. It's easy to get into the trap of wanting the latest and greatest and I'm for sure in that boat as well, now that I'm beginning to look at upgrading. Maybe I'm a shill but I think with how much computing performance has improved even from 5 years ago, I expect there to be a jump in cost -- R&D baby! It ain't cheap! Maybe they could put out better products for lower cost, but that's capitalism I guess. You don't NEED a brand-spankin'-new rig worth 5 grand. It's a privilege and making due with older (even last gen) hardware might be the most economical solution that we aren't willing to accept. It's easy to blame a company for pricing their components too high. The fact is that people are going to buy them either way because of that boat we all float in. Either pony up, or buy last-gen used components.. do you really need that 15% extra performance? My 1060 says.. well, probably not. Would it be nice? Definitely! But definitely not necessary. Just my TwoCents. 😜
I've been a software engineer for over 30 years. I don't even go to forums anymore because the amount of nonsense and misinformation that people spout off was driving me crazy.
So you are here now?
I question how many are even human anymore. Reddit is one giant cesspool of algorithmic dissent tropes piled onto each other.
"16 threads sounds like a lot, but it's really not."
Man I remember getting my first dual core CPU and thinking how amazing it was, how far we've come.
I'm running RDR2 (ultra settings @ 2k) on an i7/3070ti right now and 5 logical processors are actually working hard. 4 are barely above idle. I feel like I could've easily gotten by with an i5 processor. I also feel like I would have pretty much just as much fun if I was using an i3 processor, xx60 GPU, running at 1080p.
I'm still on the 7600k which is 4 cores with no hyperthreading. It's still doing pretty good, but it's limiting me since I upgraded my GPU from a GTX 1070 to RX 7800 XT
I remember years ago I was hyped on getting my first ryzen 4800hs laptop (8core16thread) and is super happy that my code compilation went from 40 seconds to 15, now I want those single digit compilations times with these new productivity beasts like the 285k and 9950x. Of course ram and ssds also are a factor in this.
I remember when I got my first 286 and 8 Gb RAM and finding that unlike the Amiga 500 w/512 Mb RAM, wasn't able to multitask and actually ran slower.
My pentium 4 was good enough for C&C Generals and UT2004.
Biggest problems for me personally....
1. Prices of things
2. Incremental upgrades not worth the money
3. Too many wild cards in new gen stuff
I treat PC's like iPhones. Skipping generations makes the most sense.... I'm on a 4 year old PC build and I'm ready for something new. Doing this every year is absurd.
a rtx 5060 will cost as much as a PS5 and give you less since ps5 is closed an optimized while AAA games get bad pc ports
cpus dont matter cause normal gamers cant even buy mid tier since its $750 for a gpu
@ I went from a first gen i7 to a 9th gen i7 in 2020. I guess I can't be accused of being trendy. When I built the first gen system it was a banger, now an i3 will blow it away. It was expensive AF back then.
Wild card? Is that a Persona reference?!
I am still running a I7 8700 LOL But i did grab a 3080 12gig but my system runs at 2k just fine. In the next year i would like to upgrade my motherboard, CPU and memory.
There are 3 major Issues:
1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost
And that pretty much sums it up
The problem I'm having is that the parts I want are either completely out of stock or the price is being driven up artificially. Like I don't want to pay $440 for a 7800x3d when the price was $100 cheaper just a few months ago. It's not even the top of the heap anymore!
If you have a microcenter near you they have a bundle for 599.99 that includes a mobo and 32gb of ddr5-6000 ram.
I’m going with a 9700x for $300 at microcenter. Cause yeah I’m not paying $480 for a cpu lmaoooo
@ the bundle for the 9700x is 429.99, 7700x bundle is 399.99.
That's a good price, in the UK a 7800x3d is £449 and a 9800x3d is £549, all the GPUS are crazy prices as well and that is if there is any stock
@@CosmikVoyager not big on those bundles they put dodgy mobos and ram
If you're building a gaming PC, then the first decision is ...Decide what resolution you are going to be playing at. Be honest; it can save you $$$. You can have a great time with a killer 1080p PC.
THIS!!!!
I do 4k gaming/computing on a TV screen, so it needs a little oomph behind it. My son has a relativly tiny 20" 1080p screen, and it looks so sharp and crisp in comparison. Wouldn't trade my TV for the world (except for a newer TV!), but it is about size AND resolution to make a pretty picture... and CRI... and response times... and half a dozen other things. But a small high quality display will impress if you don't need the big screen experience! And even the on-board iGPU can play most games at 1080p with high settings these days. Getting a dGPU for 1080p gaming is weirdly becoming optional rather quickly, and even low-end dGPUs can get respectable frame rates at 4k now. It's pretty crazy.
My son plays on 1080p UW with an RTX4070 it works extremely well for him!
1080 is for cavemen. It hurts my eyes
@@boot-strapper With the proper sized screen, it would still look beautiful
@@boot-strapper TAA and motion blur is what is hurting your eyes,not the resolution.
The biggest problem is GPU manufacturers pushing VRAM intensive feature while not increasing VRAM on graphics cards.
Manufacturer*
Thats mostly Ngreedia
@@duarteribeiro1520 Manufacturers refers to individuals, companies, or entities that produce goods, typically on a large scale, using labor, machinery, and materials.
AMD and now Intel aren't exactly skimping on VRAM these days.
@@Loady420 He means that there's only one manufacturer that's responsible for this. Nvidia.
The problem I have is that shit is too fucking expensive.
Fuckin eggs! I agree! I mean why are we paying "premium" price hikes for base-ass standard motherboards that just added a seven segment display! Lol!
I had to sell my sister just for a 3070. Not about to sell my brother too
Can’t wait for the next 4 years
get ur money up broke bois
Gotta do what I did, buy two, build two, and sell one to cover the cost of the other. I built two 9800x3D PCs, sold one build for $600 profit that went towards the other build that I was keeping to replace my old 3950. I didn't feel like I was scalping either because I think it was a reasonable mark-up for the build labor etc and in line with other pre-built pricing and a large discount from most of them.
Too many chips! And the names are God-awful.
What's your problem with "too many" choices buying a CPU? You'll get only one anyways... ideally the best for your usecase
The names do not matter IF a buyer pays attention to specs, performance reviews, and price. There is too much emphasis on this idea that we should be able to guess the capabilities of a very complex device based on its name. Ludicrous, and lazy.
@RegenTonnenEnte Hmm, should I get the Ryzen 5 3600? Or the Ryzen 5 3600X? Or the Ryzen 5 4500? Or the Ryzen 5 5500?
Wait, they're all kinda similar performance? Why bother having anything other than the 3600 then?
Hearing tech channels spell out every letter and number for CPUs and GPUs rapidly turns into white noise. In my head, I don't hear "Intel i7 14900KF and nVidia RTX 4090," I just hear "vmvmvm sehn foh-nahn KEF and ni-vi foh-nahhh."
Intel water lake zh2o. AMD sunrizen 6amxd
I’ve come across more than a few games that were still cpu bottlenecked at 1440p with a 4090. 1440p is quickly becoming the “new 1080p” in terms of the frame rates you can push with higher tier cards. The big problem is everybody wants to chase those last few percentages in frame rates when in reality 90% of the people that buy a CPU like a 9800 X 3-D or think they need one like that probably won’t even notice the difference that it gives them to begin with
I’m coming from an i7-8700k. I think i def need a 7800x3d or newer (i wanna build a high range pc)
The X3D line are kind of an outlier, as they bring something unique to the equation. Any game that can leverage that cache in an exceptional way, like World of Warcraft for example, will see a *drastic* performance increase compared to a standard AMD CPU, or against whatever offering Intel can muster in current year. In a game that doesn't really benefit at all from the cache, you'd paid for nothing. It can be a huge factor, or it can be nothing.
My best advice to everybody out there. Stop buying anything until I get what I need then go ahead.
what a selfish and valid thing to say 😂
I know how you feel.
Everybody leave it on the table!
LoooL
Sad but so damn true!
I think the real conundrum is when you go to buy a new laptop in the store, and all them say i3 i5 or i7, and they don't even tell you what generation it's from.
then don't buy laptops, they are designed to fail in 2-3 years anyway
@@jameszeng2666 genius!
Tbh any consumer grade laptop is not worth buying at all. Get anything business grade used or refurbished and you will get a reliable, decently powered and repairable machine.
My problem is they are still selling 8th, 10th gen intels with retail pricing.
If they are on display, I usually just run dxdiag, cause that will show you the exact CPU, Ram and GPU
Computers are like cars suprisingly. They can last a decade if it meets your current demands, and you take care of it. Every year I try to justify the big upgrade but my 1080, and i7-4790k from 2014 are doing fine I might get another 4 years out of it.
depends what your playing, that 1080 and CPU wont and simply cant get good frames on newer ish games. I expect you're playing older games or strategy games that frames dont matter and you dont care about turn load times.
I have a 4790/rx 580 system. Won’t run wu kong
@@toddblankenship7164 you're*
honestly depends, you may be heading into an issue on newer games if you want to play them but supposedly the cards that will last for basic rasterization (9070xt) may be a solution to not having to worry about anything for quite a number of years due to diminishing returns.... raytracing more or less is trying to provide a solution to a problem that was created
ironically.... the best pc right now to get may be an intel one if it comes down to price... just make sure you put a thermal limit on the chip so it can't try to burn itself to a crisp
personally i say do that to amd as well... running a 7900 cpu at 65 watts and getting 5.2 ghz... no reason to go higher
im in a similar situation. i7 8700k and 1080. still plays everything just fine at 2k. But a new 5000 series is very tempting. cpu will last a few more years.
Channels like Toasty Bros are unique in the fact that they show how well older PCs can run many of the more common games. They'll pair a Ryzen 1600X with a Geforce 1660 Super and play some of the most popular games at decent framerates. And they can even run crysis, lol.
Once the Threadrippers get 3D cache, it's all over. You'll get thread count with massive amounts of cache.
7700x here, does a great job at 4K gaming, runs. My live stream in the back temps are still fine under 80°. There's room for improvement but not necessary for my needs and I think that's the main issue, getting something that is worthwhile for your needs
Not really a gamer anymore and got the 7700x on sale during Amazon prime day and am perfectly happy with it.
The amount of man childs I have to deal with that scorn at the 7700X just because it doesn't have the 3D at the end is ridiculous. Great CPU.
Is your cpu cooling up to par?
Honestly great CPU that should be sufficient for many people.
@jarchack I got it on sale from the Micro Center in Flynt, Michigan, in early December. From my research, it is very balanced cpu let's you game and dabble in productivity.
Honestly, if your system plays the games that you want well enough for you... Don't spend the money to upgrade. With the cost of parts nowadays, getting the most out of your builds and sticking with what works for you is always a good idea in my opinion.
but your cou will holdback your 6090 ti super mega ultra that u will totally have, bc u need those 2000FPS in 25k resolution. DUH
these elitists are the worst man. just 15 minutes ago i saw someone who wants to upgrade from 2060, and some guy just replies "2060 is old"
Yeah, stop using PC components to compare your you-know-whats and everything will be fine. It's my PC. Bought it myself. Got as good price as anybody else. Shouldn't matter if Jimmy Fancypants down the block did break the 3dmark's bunghoolio record.
I agree on this, i have built my PC about 10 years ago now and i only ever game at 1080p as i never felt i needed or wanted to go higher than that since i only ever use 21'' monitors. It has been running even most of the latest game titles just fine, albeit on low or medium settings but that never bothered me since games now days don't really look that much visually better with higher quality settings i feel like except for better lighting which i never cared about. And as long as this system is running i don't plan on changing it
I really wish Nvidia, AMD and Intel would make a policy that you can't buy over 2 units per week. That would take scalpers out of the equation and only benefit the consumer, we know that will never happen because these companies rely on Sales and profit margins in which I can't blame them one bit.
What they are going to do in Cali from the fires about scalpers need to be a law not just because there is a massive fire. Which these people can supposedly serve time taking advantage of essential need items to the people that have lost everything. Which is just low of the low I have lost everything from a house fire so I know all to well how these ppl feel. The same goes for the looters they need to not see day light again praying on ppl. This should apply regardless as over charging is no different than con artist which in both cases the person selling is scum and the people that pay the stupid pricing to feed there scam as just dumb. If no one would pay the stupid pricing then scaplers wouldnt risk trying to rip ppl off.
they would be entirely sold out even if scalpers didn't buy any stock. manufacturers wouldn't make any less money by discouraging scalping, there's just really no great way to do it in the age of digital retail
@@plinyvicgames it would slow down the out of stock in 1 day though
I'm using a 9600x that i purchased for 180$. I've been called an idiot, money waster, and many more in different pc building forums.
The efficiency, single core performance, and even multicore performance is immensely impressive.
Bro it's a good purchase, you're fine. People will have opinions on anything but don't have the money to buy shit. Your cpu is fine and will last you for years. Good purchase at a good price considering your performance depending on your GPU
really going to hold back your 5090
I have just upgraded from a 2600 to a 9600x. I dont play competitive anything, Cyberpunk, Space engineers etc. I want things to look good so I dont need the CPU performance. The Gpu is always going to be the limiting factor for me.
I am about to upgrade in a few months and the 9600x is exactly what I will be getting and it will be paired with my existing 6800 XT. The 9600x is a perfectly good CPU and dont let others get you down, its not their money and they likely dont even have a computer that good.
Running a 7600 and 7800xt with a sweet 1440p monitor. All I need
The real problem is that almost everything thing that comes out is out of stock or priced way to expensive,
Yeah, I can never get a hold of anything when it first comes out because everyone beats me to the punch and I refuse to pay over msp for anything.
You can wait... I never get anything as soon as it comes out.
@@farmeunitas a bonus, it's cheap AND the firmware is much better than on release
It's because gamers want it because it's new and most don't realize that what they already have will still allow them play their games just as well or in some cases the "old" tech will even work better.
The biggest reason to pick x3d is frametime consistency for me, everything runs way smoother with a lot less hitches.
I bet a good chunk of people building PC's right now are preparing for the Tariffs. Wish more people talked about how it would affect the hobby
Ok calm down. Your woman lost. Move on
@@beastlygamers7779funny. The thing is everyone middle class and lower has lost. Some people just don’t understand
@@biomechanism1 I'm middle class and I feel like I won because Kamala lost. Deal with it.
There will be no tariffs. They've been kicked down the road for many years and it's just a story the media uses to rile people into a pointless frenzy.
@@biomechanism1 I won big time when he was POTUS last time. And I am certainly middle class and blue collar.
Just upgraded on Christmas from an I7-8700 to the 9800x3d. Yes, gaming is all I care about, but Jay is right if productivity is your aim then the 9800x3d isn't the right CPU. It wins games, not time in productivity.
Almost the same situation for me too. Upgraded from a 10900k to a 9800x3d in December. I am also a gamer first and have zero regrets about buying a product at the top of the stack. It goes nicely with my 4090.
How did it feel. I went from a OC 4.5ghz 4790K to a 7800x3d and it was like seeing a sunrise after years of being in dusk.
@@Cwrigh25 One of the reasons why i own a i7-12700K is for emulating the XBOX 360 and the PS3. The cache and clockspeed is irrelevant, it's all about IPC for me and the core/thread count. I think the fastest CPU is the i9-14900K but that thing is so hot that i don't consider it.
@@Cwrigh25 any modern cpu you upgrade to coming from 4790k will give you that feeling..even the entry levels from 2 generations ago.
Mine is coming tomorrow upgrading from i5 10400f
Can confirm, as someone that hasn’t built a new computer in like I think 8 years, super confusing! I built one over the holidays because my system was very long in the tooth (i5 6600k with a 1070) and I had gotten some bonuses at work. I ended up going with a 9800x3d (I originally was going to get a 7800x3d but literally the night before I went into Microcenter to pick up my reserved parts they got a restock). I was definitely concerned about everything being said about the 9800x3d with regards to productivity, because my system is going to be primarily for gaming (at least for the moment) but not exclusively, but given how old my previous system was, I decided to go for it anyways. It’s honestly also super confusing seeing all these videos/articles about cpu reviews and knowing what is going to end up being an appreciable difference in how my system feels and what ultimately comes down to lines on a graph.
For mostly gaming, and occasional productivity, a 9800X3D is a great choice. And it will still smoke your old system for productivity.
If productivity matters that much, then a second box with a cpu and motherboard focussed on "best productivity" can make use of your 1070 card for graphics.
But getting the best current gaming cpu also gives you the best chance of future longevity.
I can see you considering another PC upgrade in 8 years, but still being VERY satisfied with the choice you made today, because you won't need to upgrade it.
The chip naming schemes need a full reset for both companies we all buy from.
To be fair Intel are trying to do that with just naming them Ultra, problem is they need to have codes to distinguish between the different revisions and that's where all that weird numbering came from
Intel always had it pretty "simple" with the number after the i increasing show casing the higher that number the better it is.
Then the next numbers just show the "age" really. A 9000 9th gen, 14000 14th gen..
Same can be said with Nvidia
AMD is the one who seems to be all over the place causing headaches with GPU and CPU naming conventions. I have no idea what is considered top tier AMD at the moment. Even though Jay said them about 30 times in this video, it hasn't stuck in my mind.
This is the only reason I have really stuck with Intel. I feel so lost with AMD and I don't care that much to do the homework for a few extra FPS
Pentium and Celeron are good names but nowadays they are used for small CPUs on the side. Core or ultra is way too generic. I hope Intel brings back the silly names for the main chips .
That and monitors.
Intel do it almost perfect, U5 245 is basically i5 but instead of 250 why 245 ??? Or U7 265K, why not U7 270K.
And revision can just put on the last digit.
I'm happy with my Ryzen 9 5900X 128GB DDR4 Ram @3200, games perfectly, streams perfectly, runs all my editing software perfectly. Def if you are going for a mix case PC use, do not go with the 3D series, just get a normal chipset for production while being able to game at a negligible difference.
(Sorry everyone I put 5800X rather than 5900X initially, fixed it, thanks for the point out)
Ryzen 7 5800x...... or Ryzen 9 5900x. R9 5800x doesn't exist.
Man, that's sure a huge amount of ram
Ryzen 9 5800x?! Wha?
Currently specing out a Dev PC for gcc testing of multiple device's FW connected via COM. The 7950(X) and Ultra-285 look really good. No GPU needed. People need to learn to spec their machines to a given use-case.
5950x paired with 1080ti sli, still doing great, no problem working or gaming.
My brother got himself a 1080p 144hz monitor, Ryzen 7 7800X3D, a RTX 4080 non super, 64GB DDR5 6000MHz CL30 ram and 2TB storage. He says the reason for the 1080p 144hz is because he wants his pc to last 8 years and he's a devops engineer that he uses the cores and cuda for.
Honestly I think a 1440p monitor would suit that time span just fine. Thats quite a nice setup, its kinda not really getting the monitor and potential it deserves imo.
The 1080p display is a poor choice here. That rig will drive a 1440p monitor at 165hz in basically any game.
I am the type of gamer who likes my CPU to last 5-7 years, and swap GPUs every 2-3 years. I got the 9800x3d even though it completely GPU binds my rig (12gb 3080) because I am expecting to upgrade GPU this or next year. I am confident the 9800x3d will still be a bad ass gaming CPU in 5 years.
Exactly Same for me although I have a 3080ti
This is the way. Same exact reason why I bought a 9800x3D. I plan on holding on to my rig for a long time and just upgrade GPUs here and there for the next 6 years.
I find it hard to really try and predict how long the 9800X3D will stay relevant for in gaming. That said, I have one as well because money wasn't an issue and I just wanted my first X3D CPU to be the best. I'm very pleased with it.
Same here,just got a 9800X3d for MSRP price,so i was lucky. My plan is,if the 9800x3d fall off for any reason over the years,i can still upgrade to better cpu without buying a new PC,cos AMD don't change their socket every year. Even if they stop supporting am5 let's say in 2027-28 i still can buy the best/latest cpu for am5,and with that,it may even last until the whole am6 gen. Either way,better long term investment,than any Intel cpu,if you look at the upgrade path.
This would be a great strategy in a few months when the 9800x3d craze dies down and they're back in stock at realistic prices.
Never worth paying scalper price.
Hope you are doing good and are safe over there with the fires brother. Stay safe.
Fires old news
@@louislitt530 What a STUPID thing to say....the fires are still going, LA wont be the same for more than a decade
Hes luckily about 40 miles from the nearest one
@@louislitt530 It very much isn't.
@@holdenroth5929 It is cuz it happens every year, at least twice.
Finding the pc parts you need is hell tbh....
Na, it's half the fun. Building and tweaking it is the other.
Really? I was disappointed by my last build. All of the ram is the same and generally doesn't matter anymore. There are only a couple stand-out SSDs to pick from. You buy the top or 2nd from the top chip for your performance bracket of choice, and then the hard part is finding a motherboard with the connections you want. Compared to how things were 15 years ago its just so... underwhelming. And all the parts these days just fit or snap into place... no blood sacrifices involved, no sharp edges to snag on, nothing that only fits if you push in one specific way.... stuff just works and it's boring now.
It's always like that when a new high end gaming part releases. The new GPU's, the 9800X3D, new motherboards, etc. Funny enough, DDR 5 prices have been great and pcie gen4 M.2 drives are slowly getting cheaper. Motherboards are a killer but I think some guys get wrapped up in buying the highest end chipset. I'm running my 9800x3d in an MSI B650 board that has all the features I could ask for (could use more pcie lanes and SATA ports). Works great.
People allowed Nvidia to monopolize the GPU market, which is the biggest cost these days. Generation after generation they raised prices and gave less for it, other than the 3090/4090/5090. As Jensen says, you gotta spend more to save more, right?
My 7800X3D was a big improvement for the games i play. I do play in 4K, but a lot of my games are quite CPU heavy. The FPS improvement was almost like going up a tier on my graphics. I am really happy with it.
CPU performance matters less at 4k.. but it never doesn't matter. Both statements are true 100%.
Similar situation for me. Upgraded from a 10900k to a 9800x3d. I was able to use DLSS frame gen on my 4090 to stay in high refresh rate territory on the 10900k in CPU demanding games but there's still a noticeable difference in many titles after upgrading.
@ similar.. i play 4k with 5600 and 4070 ti super. Sometimes rarely the cpu drops below 60. cyberpunk rt ultra is a great balance at least with low npc. I am looking for the right deal to get on am5.. didnt want to spend $400 to get 7700x that is only 25% faster in most games. doesnt look like i will be able to get 7800x3d for a reasonable price so i should setting on something soon. Any idea if we will get a 7700x3d?
Do you recommend the 9800x3d of I want to stream and game on the same computer?
@@TheBigZ0603i find u statement confusing. So i did not on the 3D?
I like the way you refer to other reviewers in the community. Props to you.
@JayzTwoCents, When I upgraded from my Ryzen 9 5900x to my 9800x3d using the same RTX 3080ti at 1440p I seen 20-30 fps average increase. But the biggest gains were the minimum framerate's which nearly doubled if not more depending on game.
Interesting result I have the same Ryzen 9 5900X and RTX 3080Ti and 64GB RAM.
As a member of team blue, what's ultimately kept me from upgrading is the exploding/oxidizing 13th and 14th gen CPUs. They claim they fixed it at a certain point, but with how poorly they handled it, I don't believe a word they say. I don't trust anything from those gens, and the core ultras are just too damn expensive for what you get. They're at one of their lowest ever points...
I have zero confidence in Intel CPU's after how badly they dropped the ball with the 13th/14th gen stuff. I'm not saying they can never earn it back, but I'm not going to trust anything they have to say for a long time - actions speak louder than words and they have a lot of ground to cover, uphill so to speak. Its still far to early to see if they have really learned anything or changed anything - for all we know Core Ultra's could be suffering the same problems, especially considering how long it took for the 13th/14th gen stuff to come out (and how hard they tried to hide it).
Yeah totally agree. CPUs on steroids hit thier limit
@@LoricSwift 14th gen issues are a myth. People buy Intel CPUs everyday with no issue. Stop believing everything you read online
@@LoricSwiftyeah a lot of people feel the way you do until the huge bargins come along then your all out buying Intel stuff . Like the arc b 580 , yes it's a gpu but it's still Intel. So what Intel made some bad decisions recently but their history for a decade has been steller so I am not so unforgiving or really even care about a hiccup that isn't consistently a problem , it's different experiences with different users .
@ The Intel GPU's are interesting, but for me the software isn't quite there yet, and I have concerns about if there is going to be long term support - especially given the recent finance and leadership problems Intel is having. I am not spending $250 on a GPU I might only be able to use for a year or two. And its far from a hiccup, its been a disaster. It's not even that they had a problem, its the fact it seemingly slipped past their testing and quality control (implying they have none, or at least not enough) and more importantly how badly they dealt with it.
I think I’m remembering from back around release, but my 12700k e-cores run better/faster than the venerable 7700k i had before that. If I’m remembering wrong I don’t mind being corrected, but having that kind of power in the low power efficiency cores is amazing. If money wasn’t an issue, I’d upgrade more often, but Im a full time carer for my additional needs kid, so my income is a lot more limited than it used to be, but it’s also made me realise I don’t need to chase the latest hardware. Sure it’d be nice to have, but what I have is pretty good and still better than a lot of people, and more importantly, the games I play still play well for me.
Microcenter are a godsend on times like these. Those bundles are clutch.
I really wish they had more locations in the West. The nearest one to me is literally like 700 miles away so I've never actually been to one.
Ya I wish, theres not even a thought of a microcenter in the pnw or even anywhere close.
A problem is everyone believing they need the newest or highest spec system. I'm an ex-pat American living in Australia. Wind the clock back 1 yr, I built myself a PC -13900K, RX-7800XT, 32GBDDR-6200, NVME PCIE-4.0x4, running to 1440P Monitor. I built my Daughter a recreational system in June, a PC - AMD5800X3D (one of the last ones here), RX7800XT, 32GBDDR4-3466, NVME PCIE-4.0x4, running to 1440P Monitor. Both systems run without any compromises. In fact, the 5800X3D system never ceases to amaze me. If you didn't have a higher spec system running next to either system, but particularly the 5800X3D, you'd never notice much of a difference. Yes, there are scenarios where one or both of these systems will show weakness or limitation, but stop focusing on what a system can't do. Look at what YOU do and build systems with your NEEDs in mind.
Have an i5 11400 paired with an rx7800xt, can run everything in 1440p without issues, I want to update to AM5 but find it extremely expensive, MoBo pricing is just ridiculous.
Can’t agree more. I’ve been building around 20 PCs a year, and most of the time clients ask for a 4090 and 14900KF, wondering if it will give good FPS in 4K or even 8K. It’s just stupid and a waste of money, even if you’re super rich. All that AI upscaling hype is overblown; it’s just sad.
As for me, I’m still using an 11900KF, 32GB of 4400MHz DDR4 RAM, an RX 7800 XT, and a 1080p 144Hz 27-inch monitor. There isn’t a game I can’t run with maxed-out settings, and the 11900KF doesn’t bottleneck at all. Sure, ray tracing on ultra settings can be demanding, but what card handles ray tracing well anyway? I don’t care about ray tracing because I play games-I’m not watching them like a movie.
DLSS and FSR are totally useless to me because they ruin the image quality. Honestly, tech TH-camrs need to do better than just talking about stupid high-end stuff. It’s like brainwashing naive users.
got a 5800x3d and a 7900xt. runs great.
@@rocortega2064 Not sure if it's to do with the country you're in, but I'm in Canada and AM5 doesn't seem all that more expensive. During recent sales some of the best B650 mobos like the Asrock B650E PG Riptide, MSI B650 Tomahawk and B650 Aorus Elite AX were all available for less than $250 CAD. But not sure if that's gonna happen any more now that retailers are realizing Ryzen CPUs and AM5 mobos are in high demand. At the same time, can save you money in the long run since you don't need to buy a new motherboard to get a significant CPU upgrade several years down the line.
I just upgraded my AM4 system to the 5700X3D. Planning on running that one through to AM6 (or whatever).
Currently running a Ryzen 7 3700x with an RTX 2070. Will be upgrading in the not too distant future. Settled on an RTX4080/5080, still undecided on the CPU. Was thinking 9800X3D but I've also been thinking lately how I'll be using Blender a lot more this year onwards. I use Photoshop a lot, for digital painting, not photo editing. I also game, after the upgrade at either 1440p or 4k. So right now, I'm juggling betwen a 9900x and a 9950x. Was already thinking along those lines, thank you for giving me more to consider.
Thank you for having this discussion! Gaming seems to be the only thing channels talk about and fps. As you hint at, there is much more to an overall system
I got a 7600x for $140 on sale and paired it with a 4080. The 4080 runs at 100% almost 24/7 when playing intense games and from what I can tell is not bottlenecked. I'm super happy with the build.
same here, I got 7600X with TUF 4080 Super. No bottlenecks at all in 4k gaming. Only lowers GPU utilization when the game is an unoptimized pile of 💩
@@XMG3so every game after 2019
A lot of people on the thread are commenting about prices, but the real issue is that the dollar has lost a great deal of buying power in general. Wages need to rise to make up for the loss of buying power.
Intels are still cheaper
because Ryzens prices are cranked due to reviewers hype
for little reason at all
The cost of living is just the real expensive and it MUST be expensive for people to spend and keep the econemy going, most people are content with small stuff that last decades, thata bad for the econemy has people would just save and horde money till death. Soo cost of living is hight so you have to spend and spend has to keep money flowing and the poor under control while the luxury’s are cheap for A people dont have money for them so they must be cheap if they hope for any sales and B it makes the rich richer has they spend even more little for luxurys and can keep most of their money save up. One time purchase of 5k is cheaper then 5k purchase 20 times.
The 9800X3D being basically a mythical Pokemon in terms of stock/availability here in EU is what pushed me into reconsidering whether I would even make good use of it, and knowing that I don't want just a PC that pushes high framerates but can also do some occasional image/video editing or compiling code is how I've now landed on the 9900X instead. Would've even gone for the 9950X if the budget allowed it but 9900X should do the job either way.
I've wanted a 9800x3D since launch, but it has been out of stock (available for preorder only) in all stores here since launch. This seems to drive the price through the roof, and even though I can afford it, it doesn't seem worth it at the moment. My 8086k will remain good enough until the prices drop again.
I got a 9900x for 332 from Newegg over the holiday and it has been incredible and a 9800x3d would have been sold out
Ordered one yesterday from amazon, it's in stock on scan, overclockers, CCL...
@@thorbear Yeah, I'd just hold out. 100% not worth paying scalper prices when you can just wait until the craze dies down and it ends up back in stock somewhere.
@@Gardelias *patiently waiting for the 9900x3d*
fun fact hub used upscaling not native 4k. in native 4k they are all the same.
I just did a CPU upgrade in December 2024, 3600x -> 7900x, and besides being able to grab that CPU for just $300, I chose it for the multitasking potential I get from doubling my core count. Yes, I mainly just play games on my PC, but I do it with Discord running, likely streaming to my partner there, or with 100 browser tabs open and watching TH-cam videos. It's not always about big productivity programs, it's just doing quite literally ANYTHING other than ONLY games.
And the performance difference has been staggering! Not just in games where 1% lows/stuttering has been eliminated, but just basic OS performance like opening task manager or other programs. It's all nearly instantaneous and butter smooth now!
This is all to say that I fully agree with Jay here - some niche performance increases from the "top cpu" means nothing if it can't do the things you need it to do. But honestly, these days, almost any modern mid-tier CPU is gonna give you great performance. My 3600x was wonderful for 3-4 years, and it's going to my partner next for her first PC - who will likely use it for many more years to come :)
I have been using a PC I built myself for about 5 years
Specification:
CPU: Intel Core i9-9900K
RAM: 32GB 3200MHz
GPU: MSI RTX 2070 Super
So far the PC is running strong but not going to change anytime soon due to the huge pricing difference compare to the new ones
I’m kind of on a similar build, i7-8700k, 32gb @ 3200mhz and a 2080 ROG Strix, it’s slowly losing out at 1080 which I play at even with 5ghz clock on the CPU and pretty good silicon for overclocks for my GPU. The 50 series will most likely be the one I upgrade to, but man CPU’s have just not been appealing lately
Still want to see XTX vs. 9070 vs 5080 vs. 5090 on a duo 4K
Just want to see stats. My Rig is only a year 1/2 old. Not planning to update unless shows like 50% in rasterization. You will have to show me that fake frames aren’t so bad in other ways.
AMD cant compete at those resolutions and even stated their out of that market.
50% raster? You'll have to be at 4070 ti 7900 xt to see 50% uplift on a 5090 from the charts Nvidia showed.
spoiler alert : in terms of pure rasterization, the difference will be minimal. They'll have you believe that the difference is enormous thanks to the software (generating false FPS).
@@toddblankenship7164The 7900XTX does just fine at 4k. You just won't be able to turn RT on max in some games. Fortunately, Hardware Unboxed showed us like 47 ray-traced games and the vast majority were pretty unumpressive in their use RT, needing side-by-side comparisons of static images to even identify the difference aside from a big performance hit. So far the biggest RT games are a 4 year old CDPR game, a crappy walking simulator called Alan Wake 2, and the feminist game called Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, which exists to be used as a benchmark tool and not actually intended to be played for enjoyment.
I'm still using my 3930K system (from time to time, for light gaming duty) and my 6700K has dual 3090s for local AI. And I'm also currently in the planning and research phase to deploy my 6500T to be my periodic PBS where I will turn it on for like a week out of each month, when the backups are running, but otherwise, the system will remain off.
My problem: I bought a 13700k. It crashed due to a voltage problem for the first time the other day. I'd already updated the bios to the 'correct' version that should have fixed this.
Now the first thing on my shopping list when I get a job again is to migrate my computer onto something AMD. Never buying another Intel CPU / board.
I bought a 13700k around Christmas but I couldn't run the XMP profile on my RAM without crashing. I ended up returning it along with the mobo. I got a 7800x3d instead (which felt bad since the 9800x3d is only $40 more but sold out) and my system is running nice a stable with AMDs version of XMP enabled without any issues. I won't be using an Intel CPU for the foreseeable future. I would definitely suggest coming over to AMD.
@@GameWithCjay Intel is simply superior
@@tilapiadave3234at crashing your build? The 13 14th gen debacle was horrendous.
265k ultra is the better option at the current price of 370$
@@sentryion3106 NEVER had a single issue with my 13600k ,,, NEVER once had any customer report an issue in over 100 x 13600k builds. Horrendous ,, wow look guys we have a male Karen
after not upgrading my pc since ryzen 3000 release coming back into it was very overwhelming and the prices today are astronomical. The improvement from generation to generation isn't worth the extortionate costs we are now facing I ended up setting my budget i was comfortable with and saying screw it this will do because otherwise id have spent hours and hours staring at benchmarks and price listings at new stuff that honestly isn't worth my time or money. Im glad im already in with decent enough pc because right now is not a good time to be trying to build a new pc from scratch. Not only are the prices bad, but the naming of new cpus/gpus etc are all very confusing unless youve been following with a close eye for a while, its honestly off putting
I follow the market closely enough to not be overwhelmed by upgrades but I have 2 machines both running a 3700x, one with a 2080 on a 1080p 75hz monitor and the other with a 6950xt and a 3440x1440@144 monitor. They're both totally fine for the games I play. I love not feeling obligated to upgrade, especially this time of year when everyone has massive tech boners over all the latest and greatest. I hope both companies sell a shitload of all their high end stuff, I'll be stoked to pick up cheaper used parts in a couple of years when everyone moves on again.
You have a Ryzen 3000.
Buy a 5700x3d 4 170 Bucks
Get a 5070 or 9070xt in 4 Weeks and u are good to go.
Best bang 4 the buck in Ur case
@@m.d404 they are about £200 or more in the UK, settled for a 5800x in the end as they are more like £140. I have a Rx 6800 and it's been serving me well. Ive just bought a 1440p monitor so I will see how the next few months serve me at 1440p and go from there.
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN yeah, waiting on how gaming at 1440p 144 is like now I have a 5800x . Currently waiting for the monitor to arrive. Hoping after this gen releases and the next ones are in sight before I consider upgrading again but we shall see. It's been great not feeling the need to upgrade for ages but it's kinda thrown me out the loop 😂
@@EhEhEhEINSTEINused is never good but if you’re struggling that badly I guess 💀
Jay, for gamers who like compute heavy titles like turn based strategy games, X3D chips with the v-cache have a huge advantage in performance (10-30%) over non-X3D for “simulation” benchmarks. This means in some gaming scenarios, you want X3D even at 1440p or 4K.
last weekend i built my first pc for the very first time and no matter how nervous and worried I was, all I kept getting told on reddit was how dare you buy the 9950x when there are x3d chips available!!!!!!!!!!!!
but they aren't available! Atleast not at reasonable prices and the 7800x3d at MSRP considering its now old and outdated does Not count, lol 9950x is great tho.
I’ve built dozens of computers over the years and I just bought a 5600X for my new desktop built. You’re absolutely fine.
Great choice! I went with a 9900X recently, bought just under $400, and I am SUPER happy with it but ALMOST went with yours instead.
Reddit is a dumpster fire for egomaniacs!
@mikeperry2814 another thing they kept asking was why I went with 9950x over 7800x3d and I simply asked isn't the 9950x newer? And some of them got mad that that's JUST ONE of the reasons I picked it. I told them I don't just turn on games on my pc, as as Jay stated, the non x3d chips will do overall performance, not just good in games.
There's also another category of games where x3d cpus shine which are rarely mentioned here, regardless of resolution - simulation bound games. Games like Stellaris, Factorio, Satisfactory and Rimworld etc where the issue is not the actual FPS, but how fast the simulation can be run is vital to these games. A few generations ago most of us all gave up on Stellaris games after the mid-game since the slowdown made the game literally unplayable. Each time-unit ingame took more seconds as the time in the game progressed up to the point where the gameplay became too slow and soft-forced a restart of the game. The Ryzen X3D cpus are much stronger in these types of games, and you can see at the the Gamers Nexus reviews of cpu which do include Stellaris in their benchmarks.
JayZ should at least mention this as an exception to the reasoning of which CPU to choose based on what kind of games you're playing, regardless of resolution.
Yes, this is exactly why I'm upgrading my AM4 system with a 5700X3D(5800x3d isn't in stock anymore). Games like Stellaris, Rimworld, X4, Total War, etc, take up the majority of my play-time, so i can make use of every bit of cpu performance.
thats why I am looking into a 7600x3d or a 9700x for power efficiency, plus my 10th gen mobile i7 cant handle end game satisfactory without slowing down and stuttering a bit.
Another place you need a high end X3D style CPU is in simulation games like X4 Foundations, Factorio and the like, where a lot of calculations by a CPU needs to be made in a timely manner, and then whether the cache is big enough to hold the massive amounts of data needed to be held to make those calculations.
It might sound crazy but I’m gonna go with a 12700K this gen simply bc I already own it and money is tight.
That's not crazy at all if it works for you that's just fine and there's nothing wrong with that chip.
@@kevinsteinman8967 12700K is what I'm rocking! Though I'm on a DDR4 board since DDR5 was prohibitively expensive (and mostly unavailable) when I got it.
I have a i7-12700KF paired with a 3070ti. I feel like it's more than enough cpu for me. It's generally chugging along at maybe 30% with my GPU maxed out. I bet I can keep this cpu for a couple more generations of GPU's.
@@erictyler3259 it’s a great CPU! Before I had it with my 2080 and then I was super fortunate to actually be given a 7900XTX and even with this GPU it rarely bottlenecks. Only 2 games have I seen my GPU not maxed out at 1440p ultrawide, and they’re both over 100fps so I can’t complain. Lol I’ll stick with it for a while as well.
@@MistyKathrine Not a thing wrong with that. The 12 series is probably the best series that intel put out with all the problems with the 13/14th gen going on with the microcode. Course motherboard manufactures are at fault also for pushing extreme limits to claim they are better. Same on the AMD side of the road also with Asus pushing extreme voltage but not honoring warranties also plus AMD not giving strict guidelines either. Reason I'll never purchase anything Asus ever again.
Daily driving my 2500k / Z77 right now. Other retro builds include a 6700k, 6850k, 2 x 6900k, TR4 1950X, 8700k, 9900X, - 10920X, and 2 x 10850k's I'm working on now. Thankyou, and others, for the videos, both past and present. I've watched 100's of them, mostly in the last few years. Being an ex- military tech., loved restoring Ol' Muscle Cars in the past, retired, single and in a house, I have 10 Retro, semi- Clones with my own twist, builds on the Go right now. I've almost completed a Replica of Linus's first 'All ROG Build', that I hadn't originally planned on building. Hadn't seen his video when I saw a Helios Case on C.L. and bought it a couple of years ago. The seller told me it was only used for someone's TH-cam video but wouldn't tell me his name. I found out 3 weeks later when I saw / read the original packing/ shipping address and information on the Helios Box. Bitter, but Sweet. Damn Linus, 😂 now I had to bite the bullet, spent big $$ on parts, even if they're used. So now, influenced by you and other's, I'm building Ol' FlagShip Builds from the past I've seen or imagined . Thanks for the company. This Ol' Dog is . . . learning new tricks.
I used to have a 2500K, I used that one for like 7 years. That was such a great price to performance CPU in it's day.
Casually calling a TR4 Retro makes me feel like I missed the letter about my AARP subscription
calling a 10850k retro makes me sad as its my most powerful cpu
I'm still happily on a 2600k. Some of these stories scare me. hitching, stutters. With my 1080ti I'm happily playing snow runner at 60fps, while this video playing with 116 tabs. Its bullet proof, just seems to run happily yet people struggle with much newer chips... are they just trying to push quality settings too hard or are the schedulers really fighting them more ?
@@gt3911 Why do you think I haven't gone beyond 10th Gen. (yet?) I also have a collection of different 1080ti's and 2080ti's. I don't want to say I predicted future problems with electronics in general years ago, but I did. 😞
Threadripper is king of productivity. It is THE cpu for workstations, sometimes even just for the pcie lanes.
As a prospective new builder, I'd say the main issues are:
1) Case size vs cooler dimensions / GPU length / PSU dimensions. I spend hundreds on components and not know if they fit, unless I copy someone else's build. This is more of an issue with SFF but I don't want a massive case, so...
2) In depth gotchas for different mobo's working or not working with other components correctly. Everything's documented but with the best will in the world you can't read everything and the more you read the more conflictions you get.
PC Partpicker exists lmao
+1 PC part picker does a fantastic job in their builder tool when it comes to making sure components will be happy together
Cases have manuals, which they post on their websites, read the manual to see if the parts fit. I built in a Terra case and a Dan A3. I had no problems figuring out if my parts fit.
@ newegg also lists in the spec sheet what types of components fit in a case. GPU length PSU length CPU cooler height etc
Unless you go ridiculously large or overall space is at a premium, all that a slightly larger case will do is to allow for better airflow because you can fit more/larger fans.
4 months ago 78003d price is 350EU, now price is 600EU. What madness is this?
@@koraykorac5463 i present to you the € symbol
I had to buy the 7700x 550/600€ for the 7800x3d it’s insane
Then the question is ,why didnt buy it when was 350 euro? 😄 I buy 9800X3d after the lunch for 560 euro,now is around 800 euro 😁 One mouth ago for 900euro I buy 9800X3D + X870 board + 32Gb DDR5,6400,CL30
The "madness" is called "Supply & Demand".
Supply is the same or has gotten worse (I don't know if AMD still produces 7xxx series CPUs or they stopped that already) while Demand has risen up, because if they can't get the 9800X3D, they take the next available alternative, the 7800X3D.
@@BOKLUK_CHOVEK yup, i bought 9800X3D, 7900GRE, 64GB DDR5 6000 CL 30, B650 + SSD and HDD for 2500 euro. Pretty damn ok price for a top end system.
The problem is that most parts are scalped. You cannot find ASrock motherboards within $100 of MSRP and retailers sell out almost immediately on restock. 4090s are still going for around double MSRP, and 50 series probably will too. We need better systems in place to prevent bots from buying up the most in demand parts to resell at twice the price. The issue has been going on at a major scale since the 30 series launched, and the companies don't seem to care as long as they move product.
Yes! More of this please - I'm not saying to not cover gaming builds but more coverage, reviews and recommendations for production and workstation builds!
The bottleneck is getting the monitors now.
My 360hz oled monitor 1440p monitor is so sexyyyy
If the one you have works, why get a new one? Just because the new one has 12000 pixel instead of 10000 pixels ain't gonna make you a better gamer, regardless of what the reviewers and forum troll want you to believe.
Get an eye exam, every two years, as you may need new glasses and get Ophthalmologist to do a full eye exam and have them check for color blindness.
Then when you go to the Optometrist explain what your getting the glasses for as lens SIZE does matter.
@ lmao what are you on about
@@t.n.-js6ei Oh man... upgrading your monitor will more likely prevent you from needing that eye exam lol. Forget about pixel density, modern displays have so much better color accuracy, response times, and contrast which give a much more natural picture that is easier on the eyes. If you spend more than an hour or two in front of a computer every day, then spoiling yourself with a high quality display every few years really does help!
What is funny is that you won't notice the different at first... and then a year later you hook up the old monitor as a 2nd display for something and see them side by side, and then just turn the old one off because the difference is too stark lol.
I'm a mechanical engineer and it took me a month of researching performance benchmarks to just break down and buy a 7800x3d for my personal gaming rig. BUT that's not the answer for everyone, grandma doesn't need v-cache for facebook browsing and neither do my professional programs or huge spreadsheets where intel still rules. It's the same as always, research is your friend and explainer videos like these are exactly what's needed to start understanding instead of riding hype trains. By the way, my cpu is absolutely asleep right now since I only have a 3060ti and a 60hz monitor, further upgrades are already in the works to actually utilize that performance.
Wouldn’t a x3d also do the job as efficiently or even the same as Intel
If all you do is spreadsheet and browsing
I have an Intel 13900K and I don’t use it for productivity only gaming
And some programs running at the side while gaming (armory crate , icue, nzxt etc..)
A x3d chip will do the same thing
Only advantage would be if it was something like blender or scientific simulator program that I forgot the name of 😅
But for grandma I think an I5 or i3 would be more than enough
I said 4k gaming monitors are stupid... Here's what google said.
'Saying a 4K gaming monitor is "stupid" is an exaggeration, but it can be considered overkill for many gamers because of the high cost, demanding system requirements needed to run games smoothly at that resolution, and the fact that the visual improvement might not be noticeable enough for most people's viewing distance, especially when compared to a high-quality 1440p monitor with a high refresh rate.
Boom.
9800x3d is literally sold out all over for close to MSRP price. Microcenter is amazing but they constantly go out of stock. Why would I get a 7800x3d from Newegg when I can get a 9800x3d for same price.
Not sure if you’re in the US but they are being restocked like crazy. Up every few days on Amazon, and Best Buy and Newegg have also had recent restocks
The micro center near me had plenty and I went and picked one up 3 days ago
It’s getting much better
In Germany it's impossible to get them near MSRP. Every store, even the well known ones, have ridiculous prices all over.
This is too true.
Was building a purely productivity (AI and photo/video editing) centered rig and every PC builder guy around me was recommending me a 5800X3D. All of the local PC, Christmas, Gifting Facebook groups and local Craigslist was LOADED with 5800X3D systems, occasionaly with the rare 7800X3D. I was like bro... Why are you trying to sell me a 4+ YEAR OLD SYSTEM? After looking into tons of reviews from professionals, you included, but especially from Tech Notice, who is focused on work in the Adobe suite, I build myself a 9950X system and couldn't be happier. The things a beast!
Too expensive way too expensive parts and just stupid components that make no sense older stuff are deliberately being treated as outdated and confusing name schemes and ridiculous practices
1:06 kinda random don’t hate me but there’s a blueish light on you or you didn’t color correct this footage and the contrast looks very low like log footage almost. Honestly distracting. Just fyi.
As someone who just built my first pc in November I decided to go with the 7800x3d. I spent around $1,500 on my built and also got a 4070 Super. The 7800x3d makes a huge difference in certain CPU heavy games. One of the main reasons I built a pc was to play Rust and that game is very unoptimized. The performance different of x3d cpu's in Rust vs other cpu's is night and day. I personally am very happy with my build overall. In most games the cpu is very underutilized as it can just run a lot of them efficiently. The x3d cpu's are obviously very nice but it's ignorant to say they are they only usable cpu for gaming.
I got i7-14700 last year for gaming and light video editing. Using RX 7900 XTX and a Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 57”.
Ryzen7 5800X and I've no intent on upgrading unless and until that CPU shows MAJOR signs of old age. it does what I want and it's reliable.
I'm looking (feasibly) at another 2 generations of AMD chip before I upgrade. I don't do it just for the hell of it.
Great video ! Another issue is that no benchmark covers CPU intensive video games (4x, grand strategy, city builders). In those cases, fps is not the criterion but it’s the ability to play smoothly in the endgame
I went from a i9-9900k to a 7800x3d and am still using the same low end graphics card a 3060 12 gb. I play a few very cpu intensive unoptimized games. Rust and escape from tarkov both running on the unity game engine. With my old cpu my gpu was bottlenecked bad like 40% gpu usage. Now its cranked up to 97-99%. I saw frame rate increases in rust of almost 2x. From 60-70 fps on rust vanilla servers to 120 ish now. And 90-100 on optimzed fps maps on modded servers to now around 150-200. Hard to judge tarkov right now because how unoptimized the new patch is but it is quite a bit better. For these very cpu intensive games that no one benchmarks in the tests there is a huge increase. But youtubers would never know because they dont benchmark them ever. Hint hint.
Facts. A lot of TH-camrs seem to never talk about this, for real.
a 3060 12gb is not a low end graphics card.. lol The problem is people really think you need to upgrade to the highest thing a company has come out with the moment it comes out, which is the biggest waste of money you can do.
@ A 3060 (a 2020 mid-range card) is considered a low-end graphic card in 2025. Stop living in denial.
Two generations later, technology marches forward and that's okay.
@@AngelicRequiemX We can see you have drunk the koolaid
@@Sorak311 Whether or not it still performs good isn't relevant to what was being said, it absolutely is qualified as "low-end" in comparison to the GPUs being used for CPU benchmarking/reviews, so still seeing a bump in framerate while not having a top end GPU is what was being talked about. Low-end is relative to current GPU options, not a raw performance metric.
There's a reason why Nvidia used the 9800X3D in their slides for the 50 series. DLSS and X3D is a pretty good boost.
the entire point of the video is about productivity and hybrid usage.
There's a reason an Intel cpu was used for the productivity slides for the 50 series.
@SeraSxF I wouldn't call it the "entire" point of this video. Unless Jay changes the title three times like he usually does.
Frame gen is entirely gpu bound tho…The 28fps native should also be achievable with basically any cpu, yess the normal dlss super res brings it up to about a 60 and that still is on the cpu too but that should be doable too, the rest of the “frames” are completely gpu bound as they are done exclusively on the gpu. The biggest reason for them to use the 9800x3d is because it is the fastest gaming cpu and there would have been outrage if they didn’t use it, not because it would make a meaningful difference in the benchmarks.
I game on my 7800X3D at 1440P and it is great, I still do editing however on my 5900X and it still kicks butt. I do plan on updating to a 12 core Ryzen 9 non X3d to do my editing soon before the Trade War with China and other countries start
The real problem is price, 2000$ for just a gpu is absolutely insane. The 7090 is gonna be 5000$ at least
So why buy that one? Get the 5080, 5070ti or one of the AMD offerings.
You don't need a halo product.
The realistic repercussion is that consoles will make a comeback. MS will very likely be fast tracking the next Xbox for 2026, with 5080 comparable performance for $800.
It's definitely gotten pricey. Top tier 1080 Ti's used to be like $700.
But if you game in 1080p or 1440p there are plenty of GPU's in the $550 or less bracket that are more than capable to max out any game. You don't need a 4090 unless you want to run 4k with all settings turned up. So that GPU is catering to a specific person.
Good thing the 9070 is going to be priced at 600. Get in while the irons hot.
@@holdenhodgdon3756consoles are generally 2-3 generations behind PC hardware. AMD won’t be anywhere close to providing an SOC that can give 5080-like perfromance next year.
I had to get the 7700x wanted to get the x3d but at the end let's be honest 7700x was well enough the x3d is nice but let's be honest if you are on a budget just put the money into other parts like gpu / ram / psu (since each generation of gpu's is requiring more and more power )
P.S : love your work Jay last day i had to watch a bunch of your videos to optimize the airflow of my case :)
The cost to performance ratio between the 7700x and 5800x3d is absolutely worth it for most gamers! They perform nearly the same. The ratio between the 7700x and 7800x3d isn't worth it. At all! Lol! You made a killer choice! My son sold his 5800x and got a 5700x3d just to chop the .1% lows down and smooth out his SnowRunner experience... And holy cow! Go AMD 700 series! Great units for super reasonable prices!
The real problem is the cost-to-value ratio is too damn high. But a big part of that problem is a lack of optimization in games. When you have games that require the latest graphics cards to run (looking at you, Indiana Jones) then that forces people to have to upgrade or else they can’t play the game. I don’t think I’ve ever had to buy a PC component to be able to play a game except for maybe a joystick to play Flight Simulator 95
I'd like to point out, the 9800X3D does wonders for 1% lows. I game at 4k, mostly, and moved to a 9800X3D from a 5900X and my games definitely feel a lot smoother from any frame time nonsense.
What Video card? Most testing I've seen online show very little Frame difference when running a 4090 and the 5600x3d, 7800x3d, or the 9800x3d once you start playing the higher resolutions (2k and 4k)there's very little difference between those three CPU's, Nothing anyone would notice with the naked eye anyway.
@@toddblankenship7164 7900XTX. I'd say it definitely depends on which game. And that's likely down to sh1t optimization that the 9800X3D just deals with better. That, and the 5900X is on two CCDs. Maybe that was making a difference for me in certain games.
Maybe the core of the problem is resolution and fps greed
It's funny looking at old GPU reviews, back in the days of the GTX 280, 8800 GT, 3870, etc., noting that people had *fun* playing at 1024x768, with sub-60fps if they cranked up the detail, and how much Crisis put a strain on everything when it came out, yet people still played it (I bought 2x 8800 GT, the SLI scaling was superb). Back then 1280x1024 was midrange, 1600x1200 somewhat common, with 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 the highend, before the era when 1080p TV production ruined gaming resolutions, chopping off that glorious old vertical height (I loved my 22" CRT @ 2048x1536 for Oblivion IV, Crysis, Stalker and FC2).
Nowadays there's this encouraged notion that somehow if the fps isn't 200+ and the resolution not at least as good as a hawk's eyeball then one obviously cannot enjoy the experience. It's all gone kinda nuts, and it's damaged game development I think because devs are now too averse to really pushing what modern hw can do as they don't want to end up with games that can't run at a bajillion fps, though some of course are now relying on upscaling and frame gen to cover the accompanying poor optimisation that's making things worse, introducing other visual defects and lag.
Now we have 500Hz monitors and the beginning of 8K marketing, in an era where any serious attempt at boosting raster performance has been abandoned. The fps arms race never ends, nor will the tech shortcuts to chase the marketing numbers.
I'm glad I'm happy with 1080p/60, beyond that is a money pit I don't want to explore, not yet.
Right. I don't get why everyone wants to play at 4k. I didn't start playing games at 2k until I got my 3070ti. I plan on sticking with 2k for a long time. It looks great on my 27" monitors IMO. My kids are still playing at 1080p on 27" monitors and I think it looks fine.
@@erictyler3259 i used laptops for work for 15 years or so, got uses to the ppi, when i finally got a desktop i got a 1080p 27" monitor and it was almost unused about outside of just watching movies because of how blurry it was, i jumped at the 4k stuff as soon as i could.
i'll lower every other setting before resolution, even 1440p looks rough and i have diabetic retinopathy!
@@erictyler3259 Nobody's playing 4k at 27". LOL. At least, I sure hope not. I upgraded from 1440p 27" -> LG C4 4k 42". It's about the same PPI but gives me more physical space for productivity work. Then, for entertainment, I love having a large screen on my desk. It's incredibly immersive (almost theater-like) when the lights are off. I agree, though, that there are absolutely diminishing returns for PPI. If you're shopping 4k you should be looking at 32" minimum.
@ I said my monitor was 27".
I did my build during black friday and I was able to get a 9800x3d. Like you said, everywhere I read was saying that's THE one. I wanted a gaming rig, but I also wanted to be able to do some video editing work. I watched your video and was thinking "damn I spent months watching reviews and going back and forth on parts and Jay now tells me I got the wrong cpu!!" So far, it's been good for what I needed. Just funny that you called out the 9800x3d like that. Good info though. Enjoyed the video.
been there, wondering why manifesting seems to work for everyone else but not for me. i followed all the advice, but nothing seemed to click. then i read Vibrations of Manifestation by Alex Lane, and it completely shifted my perspective. chapter 3 has this one idea that changed how i see energy, and honestly, it’s been a game-changer for me.
As a 2D/3D animator i'm just glad some of the tech reviewers are shifting focus from pure GAMER builds to more creator focused builds that don't feature crazy expensive parts like threadrippers and RTX 6000 ada gpu's. Like i'm doing fine career wise, but am i really going to pay 7000 euro for a GPU?
Of course all production is sales driven, so apperently the creator space is growing. GPU creators must also realize most gamers who have a rtx 3xxx gen and up are set for quite a while.
I bought a 14700k new at a great price, updated the bios and it’s been great!
It's about time! As a long time subscriber, I've been a bit depressed with your coverage of anything AMD outside the *x3d lineup. It was the same with almost every other channel as well. I built a PC during the cyber monday thru xmas season and the *x3d choices were none-existent or way overpriced. I settled on a 4080 Super/X870e build running a 9900x and couldn't be happier. Yes, this is a dual-use PC (Adobe/3D modeling/gaming/etc) but even outside of the productivity suites, I've had an awesome experience running games at 4K with this setup. Sometimes, I think the big tech channels have blinders on because they often have choices that the general public doesn't, so it was good to see this vid.
What did you have before ?
That’s not even a title lmfao wth
Built my PC in february 2020, R5 3600X, RTX 2070S, 750W Gold+ PSU and 32GB RAM. December 2024 I've upgraded to 5700X3D, undervolted it a bit, and the improvement is massive. In most games I'm playing, CPU and GPU max out at 60-70% load (1440p), capped at 90fps, temps in 50-70range on both, fans maxing out at 55% speed, so it's super quiet.
Pretty sure it'll be good for the next couple years, at which point a new AMD socket will (probably, most likely) come out. Though I am considering a used 4070 TI Super, once the 50-series hit the market for good.
Intel sponsored. Guys don't buy 13 or 14 gen CPU go for regular AMD CPU like Ryan 7 or Ryzen 9 none x3d CPU. Risk is not worth the price and you get a better efficient CPU.
And given how long the problems took to show and how hard Intel tried to hid it, we STILL dont know if the have fixed it, or if the new chips are going to degrade too.
buying a 14th gen is nuts if you want to resell it in 2 or 3 years when you next upgrade no one is going to want them in the future on ebay ect
Thank you, Jay.
This settles a question for MY most demanding application in my upcoming 2025 build: a poor man's Workstation for retail off-the shelf, hobbyist grade AI remastering and productivity video and media tinkering. A resume of apps that includes things like Topaz Video AI, RIFE-app, Handbrake, AVIDemux, etc etc
Happily running my 5700X and I'm not missing any 3DVCache stuff, at all. If benchmarks and numbers matter to you, great. If not, look at your wallet first, I say :)
I went from a 2700 to a 5700X3D & said "meh" ...it drastically improves the 1% lows that happen between scene changes in benchmarks, but does nothing for max FPS. I only paid $100~ for it, so it wasn't bank breaking enough to be an actual disappointment. But I wouldn't have bothered if I had known what the actual improvement would be.
@@holdenhodgdon3756It entirely depends on the game and resolution. If you play GPU intensive games at a higher resolution you won't see that big of a difference, however for competitive shooters at 1080p a jump like that is likely to more than double your fps. I recently did a build with a 7800x3d, basically tripled my fps in some games. I helped a friend recently to upgrade from a 3600 to a 5700x3d and doubled the fps in the game he plays the most, which is Fortnite.
I also went from Ryzen 7 2700 to Ryzen 7 5700X3D and the difference is barely noticable and I play Final Fantady XIV which is cpu-intensive and people parrot that it is great with X3D cpus. $192 wasted! I even upgraded my ram from CL15 3000mhz 16GB to CL16 3600mhz 32GB and no improvements! My GPU is 1070 Ti so I plan to try 5070 to if that does anything. with my current build, I dont get over 80fps 1440p in Final Fantasy XIV EVER.
@Robbie-mw5uu I went from a GTX1080GT to a 4070 Super & it was solid upgrade.
I have the 9800X3D, 64GB of 6000mhz DDR5, a 3080 (will be upgrading to the 5080) and the Aorus FO32U2P and I have to agree with everyone here that keeping up with the best tech is getting to be so outrageously expensive.
When building a computer i think most cant be honest with themselves as to what its going to be used for. My personal checklist goes like this:
- Set a realistic budget
- Will the core components last 4-6 years (CPU/Mobo)
- Does it have enough meaningful upgrade paths (SATA/M2/RAM/PCIE Speed)
- Does it meet my needs?
- Do i really need to upgrade?
My last system i built at the end of 2022, after having my previous system for about 5-6 years due to slower game performance. Core i5 13600KF, 32G DDR4 3600 Ram, RTX4800, reused my M2's and SSD's. Wish i would have gone with DDR5 and a little slower graphics card but i wasnt honest with myself and went with what i did.
I'm just praying the Ryzen 9900X3D is 750$... so it can be 800€ because we get screwed over like that in (western) Europe
999€ from scamers :D
In Europe, they have tax included in listed price. In USA they don't so when a product says $750 it's usually $800+ depending on the tax rates in the state where you bought it from.
@@MistyKathrine I know but I figured the price everyone talks about is the one including the tax... but that would require similar taxes in all states and a bit of mental arithmetic... so I guess they don't.
9 out of 10 times American TH-camrs talk about prices without tax. As a German I had to learn that as well. Always thought, we get screwed until I looked into the American tax system.
I think the problem many face right now.. Is there isn't enough downtime to do work time then game time, then consume the hours of youtube/netflix/anime etc. Then comes, the balance of your pc and laptop specs.. There's no way you will tolerate a lagging laptop even for browsing purposes.. And windows 11 seems to be the worst iteration at catching Bluetooth devices nowadays. That's 2 high end systems or a high end laptop with a dock..
Personally my 4th gen Intel is still running OK. And it's not worth anything sold, so it's going to become scrap the moment I try to upgrade. Going to push it till one of the things mobo/processor dies
BLASPHAMY!!! What!? How dare you even begin to consider, let alone recommend, ANYTHING but an X3D CPU! And you call yourself a Tech TH-camr!!! But seriously, it's about time someone makes this point. So Thank you, Jay, for putting it out there. All of the drama around PCs moved me to switch back to MAC for my office. I've been building and supporting PCs for over 30 years. Been PC gaming for longer (Do you remember Hercules graphics and add-in cards just to run a mouse?) It's crazy to see people pushed and even shamed into spending $$$ on a CPU that they can't leverage, and may never be able to leverage. Their $$ would be better spent on a nicer monitor, higher-spec GPU, etc.
I hadn't turned on my 13700K for about 5 months, so I decided to do some updates and make sure the intel happy bios update was applied and then I saw your video. I don't miss this at all. I still game on a PC, which is an AMD 5950x, 64 GB, 2 TB + 4 TB, and an AMD 7600. It's in an H1 case or I'd be running my 7900 GRE. Unfortunately the GRE model I have is just barely too long. I wanted to try an all-AMD setup vs. AMD+Nvidia or Intel+Nvidia. It runs great for my needs, although I'm going to move over to my 7700x + GRE build just so I can see if there's any appreciable difference. My guess will be not really. I'm playing on a 1080 165hz display.
Everyone may need to step back and take a breath. That advice is not just for consumers but for tech TH-camrs, too. Personally, I think the constant drive to be "first" and to push the latest and greatest to maintain "relevance" creates the exact environment you are trying to address in this video. I'm glad that I pulled the plug on my PC hobby Life (my gaming PCs are essentially just consoles to me anymore). I know that's a radical approach, but one that I personally needed to make.
Thanks again for the video.
Cheers
Rick
i went to reddit to showcase a build with a 285k for my younger brother and asking about how to properly set-up the RAM (gear1 and/or gear2) and i got freakin´ DESTROYED on comments how the PC was garbage for having the meme CPU and might as well have gifted him a garbage bag, that was pretty disheartening, he uses the pc for his college projects + blender and usually some light gaming (project zomboid, google play, pacific drive and so), everything strapped with an arc A770, which was a pretty good deal back then (drivers had matured well enough) this video was redeeming for me when you mentioned that not everything has to be an X3D or a 4090 (which i doubt these terrible commenters on reddit could even afford) and proved how theres a brutal hive-mind mentality when it comes to processors, or components in general, now i know i really did the right choice for his productivity. thank you so much!
your first mistake was using Reddit
I got a 9800x3d at launch because i wanted the better gaming performance compared to my old 5900x but I also wanted a CPU that was going to last me a while before I needed to upgrade again. I do very little in the way of productivity and the gaming performance of the 9800x3d is leaps and bounds better that the 5900x. I was playing Jedi Survivor at max settings and just from a CPU swap, I got over a 20% boost in fps with my 7900xtx. That's at max settings on a 3840x1600 ultra wide monitor. It was averaging about 115fps where as the 5900x had me stuck at about 85fps with the exact same setup. 30fps in a game that LOOKED like it was GPU bound was crazy. While the 9800x3d isn't the productivity king, it never was designed to be.
One of the crazy things that people don't seem to think about these days is that the current crop of current generation CPUs have iGPUs that are good enough for 1080p 60 gaming (as long as you don't get an F skew CPU). So if you're needing a PC upgrade and not sure about if you are going to need the horsepower for gaming, you can get a good Ryzen 9600x / Intel 14600k system without a discrete GPU right now and then buy a GPU later if you actually need it.