Sigh... Please consult any figure in the Catholic intellectual tradition, from Augustine through Thomas Aquinas up to Georges Le Maitre, the formulator of the Big Bang theory. Catholics do not drive a wedge between faith and reason and by no means hold that "faith" is tantamount to irrationality.
Thank you Fr. Barron for the connections you make. I'm glad that there are works of fiction produced that seem to capture and present anew the historical act of Christ's sacrifice. There would be no way that uneducated ordinary fishermen would have been willing to die for Christ if He never proved his power to save Himself from death three days later. If He never saved Himself why would these men of earthly and practical perspectives suddenly have confidence that somehow He could save them!
for a while i thought he only reviewed films that included theology (i.e. The Adjustment Bureau, the Tree of Life, etc.), which i like, but i didn't know movies like TDKR was included. i'm subscribing to this channel! =)
Fr. Barron, i am a seminarian of the Diocese of Las Vegas and I personally honor your intelligence. How can a developing mind in the formation process reach the level of intelligence that you have? Specially in your vocabulary...I am a product of a struggling public school system so I highly appreciate your videos.
Another great review, Father. As somebody said previously in the comments, I wish more figures of the church commented on modern culture as insightfully as you do
*Spoiler* I thought he fixed the autopilot months earlier but no one knew... that's why he's seen later by his butler in Italy with Catwoman. Though, I still think it's very much a Christ archetype. I'm not one to usually watch these sorts of movies (actually this is the first one ever) but I found it an amazingly deep and thoughtful film. Thank you for this commentary.
I'm surprised you saw Bane as a figure of "Evil". I was sure he was a figure of Justice or more specifically Judgement. Justice is harsh and exacting. It demands of you exactly what you have taken. The fact is that, strictly speaking, the people of Gotham deserved to be destroyed, for all their corruption, or passivity in the face of corruption. Batman, on the other hand, is a kind of "Christ figure", and he represents Mercy. The movie is a conflict between Mercy and Judgement. So what we end up with is Batman sacrificing himself, out of Mercy and Love, for a people who did not really deserve it. It's a very Christ-like sacrifice. I think the Joker, from the previous film, is more of a personification of evil. To dismiss Bane as merely "Evil" is to miss out on a lot of the themes conveyed in the dialogue. This may sound like a very harsh conception of Judgement, but it is a higher divine Judgement, and it is meant to be extremely exacting. Don't forget that in the biblical account God once destroyed all living things with a flood; besides Noah and his family, that is.
I saw this movie last night, father. There was a line where Bruce Wayne responds to "You've given everything you have." with "Not yet." Clearly implying that he still had one thing left that he could give, his life. That, plus when he "died," made me think of what you mentioned in a previous video, Christ figures in the popular culture.
Bruce Wayne's answer for the fall into misery and suffering is intimidation and justice. His fears were mastered to manipulate other's fears, which were aggravated by the Joker. When the Dark Knight became the scapegoat symbol for Gotham, Wayne's own fears hobbled him up in the hole of his ego mansion. When fear could not overcome vicious brutality, Wayne could at least reorient his courage to shed his vigilante persona to rescue Gotham from a nihilistic monism.
Batman in the Nolan trilogy began with a question: why do we fall. The father of Bruce Wayne answered after picking his young son out of a well. But Bruce Wayne's father fell dead after having been shot during a petty robbery. Bruce Wayne's answer became a symbol of primal fear after descending into the underworld to master his fear. But the manipulation of other people's fears brought the anarchic madness of Joker into Gotham. And Gotham's representative of law and order fell with Harvey Dent.
The John Blake ie Robin character at the end of Dark Knight Rises is like the Gary Cooper character in High Noon. Blake tosses his law badge away after his frustration and disappointment with the institutions and people of Gotham. American mythology seems to value the lone individual riding into the West only to save the community another day. The only question at the end of this movie is whether another Dark Knight will rise with righteous anger and fear to right wrongs on his own.
Father Barron has elsewhere discussed conversion as a movement from the small narrow ego into the "larger soul". The Bruce Wayne arc in these movies have been through the first several rooms of that Interior Castle of Avila. The persona symbols of primal fear and scapegoat have been shed to begin again at love. If only Wayne had used his wealth and influence along with the love for Rachel, perhaps love, law and property might have challenged evil, hate and suffering in Gotham.
I agree with your observation on Bane's voice. Reminded me of the Sean Connery character from SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy. I agree with your other observations also haha.
Why not? Considering how unique the story of Christ is, that God becomes Man to be the Sacrifice for All against Evil, has no parallel in history, I'd say it's a step. Granted, my way of becoming Catholic was having read City of God by St. Augustine. But that's because I had already seen a similar corollary in my readings and my experience. From there, I simply grew into it. Not everyone gets a divine revelation all at once. For most, it's a step at a time.
I was hoping you were going to talk about and expand upon the scene in the prison where Bruce is told by the blind man something along the lines of fear of death being the ultimate strength of the spirit, or Alfred's comment "I see the power of belief" as he watched Bane through the security cameras. Some of the movie reminded me of the writings of the Spanish mystic St John of the Cross and his book 'The Dark Night of the Soul.'
Wasn't the autopilot on Batman's plane repaired? I thought that was revealed after the climax, resulting in Batman's survival of the atomic explosion. He didn't really sacrifice himself at all.
you forgot to mention bishop barron that at the end of the movie, michael caine sees bruce wayne and his girlfriend sitting at a cafe, which symbolizes Christ's resurrection to his believers. so the resurrection motif is there too, but it's subjective and open to interpretation.
does anyone else think that since we in fact thought he was dead only to find out he was still living at the end that it could signify the resurrection?
Howdy My original comment penned in haste and anger was not fully in line with the Fr. Barron's analogy. Mea Culpa if you have had to defend my misrepresentation, the task at which you have excelled. My Thanks.
I personally believe that, on the contrary, this type of movies will always deceive the viewers about the true nature of the fight against evil. Not only do the bad guys get killed before Batman gets you sacrifice himself, but he does that so people can carry on with their lives as usual. No change on that side. No clear direction, no clear purpose as an outcome from Batman's sacrifice.
I would contend that the batman movie was more gnostic in content. When batman is asked why he won't reveal his identity, he replies that the whole point of batman is that he could be anyone. It doesn't take a special, super human individual. This speaks to the gnostic principle that the is a spark of the divine within everyone, and that by cultivating it anyone can become one of these savior-like people. Am I way off base with that?
The key scene in Dark Knight Rises,when the already recluse Bruce Wayne becomes the Dark Knight again to confront the beast of brutality, and is literally and figuratively broken and thrown into a prison pit. Bane grants Wayne like Gotham an opportunity to escape the confines by their own efforts. Bruce Wayne's answer to his father's question is courage. The Gotham citizenry solution is vindictive social justice to alleviate misery and suffering. But courage and justice had death looming over it
The Christ figure analogy goes even further than what Fr. Barron says. Lets not also forget that batman has the "clean slate" device that can wipe away someone's past or "forgive all" if you will. Catwoman wants this from Batman so she can live a normal life not burdened by her crimes. This reminds me of St. Mary Magdalene specifically, but sinners in general who can only find salvation in Christ. Batman is the Christ-figure here, and thus he is the one who can "remove sin".
Great video Father. I really liked the voice of Bane in the movie, Bane reminded me of Sauron in the Lord of the Rings films, he had a very similar voice as well. His voice sounded as if it was recorded on a separate track and placed over the movie's track. This gave his voice a very penetrating, overbearing tone. I thought his voice represented true evil. His voice surrounded you, drowned out everything else, and it overshadowed everything around it. Batman then is Goodness,is Christ-like
Batman, symbol of primal fear, turned into the Dark Knight scapegoat. The autonomous individual citizen of Gotham had taken the law into his own hands, like many in the corrupt Gotham bureaucracy compromised by the criminal underworld. The law and order district attorney became above the law. When Bruce Wayne realized what had happened, he took responsibility for Dent's death to become the scapegoat symbol for Gotham. People who take the law into their own hands brings further destruction.
( Cont) simplest and truest religion there is. Keep in mind I am not religious, but I do love the surpassing beauty that religion has to offer. But one should study all religion not just christianity. Because you will never understand religion to it's fullest context if you don't learn to forever inquire into religion and into yourself and in the process yearn for more like the jews, or lose yourself in the forever vastness which the hindu religion make tangible.
J.M.J. That's where you're wrong. It would be completely impossible for a human to say "the fruit was both fully an apple and fully an orange" and make it a reality, because man does not have the power to be above the laws of nature. But God is above the laws of nature, since He created them, hence, if He wished, He could say "the fruit was both fully an apple and fully an orange" and it would be a reality. Jesus is true God and true man.
Disagree. There is a scene in the film where Catwoman implores Batman to stop. That he'd done enough for everyone - that he'd given them everything. He responded "not everything" - meaning, not "his life". That he survived in my opinion was also awesome because Christopher Nolan now allows another writer, or himself in the future, to resume the story - with Robin and Catwoman also in tow. Won't require a total reboot.
True, I am, as St. Paul says, "a fool for Christ." Aside from which, Christ was both fully man, and fully God. He was fully mortal, and could thus experience death just as any other mortal. This is attested to by pagan historians, as well as various Jewish historians, along with other contemporary writers. and Catholic martyrs know they could or will die, but the also believe in a life hereafter, where they will receive a just reward for their actions on earth. Thus the Eternal soul.
Catholicism makes no such claims as to how many are in Heaven and Hell. Some of the saints, however, have varied greatly on their independent thoughts on the matter. I believe Fr. Barron has a video on the Catholic view of Heaven and Hell that might be more illuminating on the subject,
Is that why Bruce Wayne (spoiler alert) survives the blast? Is it because he is as Christ and returns after his sacrifice? Is it a sacrifice if nothing is lost?
Doesn't Christ come back after being crucified in the bible? Appearing before the disciples before ascending into heaven where we anticipate the second coming
Star Wars, Batman and the story of Jesus all follow a common mythological hero pattern that expresses itself throughout many cultures, religions and epochs. I suggest everyone read Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.
Father, I may have misunderstood the ending of the movie, but I think the autopilot still worked, thus allowing Bruce Wayne to continue to live. That makes the ending much more ambiguous than your interpretation. It's a fake self-sacrifice, which only perpetuates the anti-Christian myth that violence can cast out violence. There are deep Judeo-Christian themes in the movie, but I don't see forgiveness. Without real self-sacrifice the myth of redemptive violence continues-thus the need for Robin.
If your claim is true, that the pattern of salvation is ingrained in the culture, it is natural to ask why such a pattern would be in a culture in the first place, let alone in a diversity of cultures spanning geography and time. Perhaps that the myth reveals a truth, the fables reveal a moral, and the stories reveal a real truth regarding human nature: that we are desperately in need of salvation.
I'd be concerned if there weren't multiple images of Christ throughout history. The fact that the world seeks this pattern doesn't negate its validity. The universal presence of a myth in cultures quite often means that its not a myth, but something very much real and very much true.
I wouldn't really call Bane's League of Shadows 'revolutionaries,' if that's what you are referring to. The real revolutionaries would be the heroic cops, who charge the enforcers of the new regime instituted by Bane at the film's climax. I also don't think the Star Wars films have a really dualistic view, demonstrated by Anakin Skywalker's redemption and defeat of the embodiment of Darkness, the Emperor.
@yahwehhooie no one claims that He was Caucasian, nor do we claim that he was nailed through the palms. Take note of how the portrait of Our Lord in this video shows him nailed through the wrists, at 1:44. The shroud of Turin also shows Him nailed through the wrists. (proper support). If you learned a bit of history, you would know that the "art" of crucifixion was lost after its outlawing in 313. The method was lost due to lack of practice, so it is no wonder He is most often depicted as
Wonderful movie, wonderful review. But I was hoping you'd deal with... S P O I L E R the fact that he somehow survived at the end. For one thing, I can't imagine how! Even for a movie I found it hard to accept. On a deeper level, it seemed to take away the impact of his sacrifice. I'd love to hear more thoughts on this.
If you look even closer at the Dark Knight Rises plot points in relation to The Christ motif, you notice that The Dark Knight (Batman) literally rises out of a pit that is called “Hell on earth”. Now consider that this film came from Hollywood and ask if it’s actually a glorification of a False Christ like the Antichrist, who has all the hallmarks of Christ, but finishes the movie off with a magicians trick to escape the detonation, similar to how the Antichrist will enact his own sorcery to “rise from the dead”. The book of Apocalypse even has The Antichrist “coming up from the pit”. Just a thought
Just read my friend. Read, read, read and then read some more. There's nothing that improves a vocabulary better. It improves it subconciously as well. Don't just read dry material either that will put you to sleep, bore you and dissuade you from reading. There's going to be some of that already in the seminary. Read for pleasure. Mark Twain, John Steinbeck, whatever. Whatever you're going to enjoy.
Ironic because Wayne actually lies to Gordon and doesn't actually die - he gives the impression that he is sacrificing himself but then he escapes and enjoys an early retirement somewhere in Europe LOL
+Emerson Sortun Hmm... do you know the odds of him escaping a nuclear bomb? He doesn't lie to Gordon because the chances of him surviving are not good even with autopilot.
??? maybe the device explodes underwater, the movie washes over the consequences of that for the city and its population. my point is bruce was planning his escape from the batman identity all along, he wasn't intending to sacrifice himself. he would if he needed to but if he could escape, all the better. hardly an echo of jesus
Emerson Sortun I get what your point is but again I disagree. He was not planning his escape from the Batman identity all along. And even if he was the likelihood of him surviving the blast is very slim. The idea of him escaping Batman identity was an afterthought of his sacrifice. It would have to be because again the likelihood of him surviving wasn't in his favor. I also highly doubt that the device explodes underwater as it certainly didn't look that way when it exploded. Furthermore, Jesus is both human and divine. Batman clearly is not. The only way that Batman's sacrifice could be an echo of the death and resurrection of Jesus in the way it was done in TDKR.
i don't understand why you think his survival was in doubt any more than the other inhabitants of Gotham. He didn't actually fly out over the water... he got out ...
Sorry to rain on your parade but you've left out an important part of the story to make Batman's ending as Christlike as possible. When he got on his "special" plane, he didn't know that he was going to die as you said. In fact, he probably knew that he was going to live since he had installed the auto pilot function 6 months earlier.
Your point remains nowhere. He (allegedly) went through suffering when he did not have to. That constitutes a sacrifice in any definition. you can say that he didn't sacrifice his life per se to the fullest extent because he knew he was coming back but that doesn't mean its not a sacrifice
Hm, interesting. I guess I just missed whenever it was they said that he fixed the autopilot and THAT'S how he survived. But then, this changes the entire movie for me! Gah! How I wish I'd never seen that final scene! Now all the emotional/spiritual impact is nearly gone for me.
Isn't the Christ archetype just a common thread that runs through all human cultures and traditions (e.g. Horus in Egypt), that just happens to find its most famous example in Christ?
Is not the problem of evil solved in the Star Wars movies by the great act of self-sacrifice of the newly redeemed Anakin Skywalker, in his return to the light and turn against the great evil of the Emperor? Just a thought. Great commentary.
At first I was in shock, somebody from church is actually comparing the religion and the movie, but than... It has sense. There is something very important in common for both. It's a fiction. :)
It wasn't a sacrifice at all, because he didn't die. It was another deception on Batman's part, just like him taking the fall for Harvey Dent's crimes in the previous film. He essentially left Gotham with the image of Batman as a sacrificial messiah, which is not the truth. You could easily argue that the subtext of the film is about how the Christ archetype is deceptive.
"There is nothing virtuous about self-sacrifice"...? REALLY?? Tell that to the mother of a dead soldier. Or new parents sacrificing sleep to take care of a baby. Or someone volunteering their time to help the poor. Etc, etc, etc.
.....or that all the creators of these stories and myths were subconsciously following a common storytelling pattern ingrained in their culture, and Jesus is just one of many of these mythologies that follows a common template.
...Campbell's figures, and most "saviour" figures of the West, actually adhere to what Walter Wink calls "The Myth of Redemptive Violence." This is where I might disagree a bit with Fr. Barron (though it was a very good video and I quite enjoyed his analysis). The Western saviour figure is not necessarily a Christ figure. The saviour figure in the West is the heroic warrior who punches evil in the face until it stops: Marduk, He-Man, Capt. America, Schwarzenegger. Jesus inverts that.
Every Bishop who does not follow the Pope, calles himself an "Orthodox." There are about 80 different organizations of "Orthodox Bishops" many of them have suffered to be controlled by governments and emporers, for their organization has no visible head Mat 16:19, Isa 22:22. Protestantism was created after the invention of the printing press. Before the printing press, if you wanted scriptures you had to have them had written... with a quil, and papyrus (difficult). Watch the videos by MHFM1
There is such a thing as good an evil but they are far far apart un this life most of our actions are in the grey area. Second of all I am not Christian, I merly love the beauty that is in all religions, and truth be told I came into my religious wonderment through hinduism, but I do love christianity althought it is a beautiful religion it's simplicity is a source of it's greatness and a cognitive dissidents in that religion. And thirdly religion is not a one size fits all proposition.
Spoiler*** So did bat man rise from the dead? Sure, the story could have ended with Batman giving his life... but it didn't Bruce is seen by Alfred, and he is having lunch with Catwoman (Selina). He likely fixed the auto pilot, and just used this death to leave Gotham and begin a new life. Still... if he had died, it is a great comparison.
Father, I have been reviewing films for almost 7 years now, and you are by far my favourite film critic. Great job!
Sigh... Please consult any figure in the Catholic intellectual tradition, from Augustine through Thomas Aquinas up to Georges Le Maitre, the formulator of the Big Bang theory. Catholics do not drive a wedge between faith and reason and by no means hold that "faith" is tantamount to irrationality.
No! There are relatively superficial similarities. But the closer you look, the more unlike the myths Christ appears.
Thank you Fr. Barron for the connections you make. I'm glad that there are works of fiction produced that seem to capture and present anew the historical act of Christ's sacrifice. There would be no way that uneducated ordinary fishermen would have been willing to die for Christ if He never proved his power to save Himself from death three days later. If He never saved Himself why would these men of earthly and practical perspectives suddenly have confidence that somehow He could save them!
Thank you for sharing
Father Barron, I wish there were more priests like you commenting on modern day culture. :)
Thank You Father Barron, very insightful.
How do you know?! Providence has used far weirder things to bring people back to Christ.
"You merely adapted to the darkness, I was born born in it! Molded by it!"
"Adopted"
for a while i thought he only reviewed films that included theology (i.e. The Adjustment Bureau, the Tree of Life, etc.), which i like, but i didn't know movies like TDKR was included.
i'm subscribing to this channel! =)
Fr. Barron, i am a seminarian of the Diocese of Las Vegas and I personally honor your intelligence. How can a developing mind in the formation process reach the level of intelligence that you have? Specially in your vocabulary...I am a product of a struggling public school system so I highly appreciate your videos.
Very nice, Father. Thanks.
Another great review, Father. As somebody said previously in the comments, I wish more figures of the church commented on modern culture as insightfully as you do
Father, I think it's brilliant how you've used a contemporary film to expand on Christian, and particularly Roman Catholic, themes! Keep 'em coming!
I've had the chance to meet with him in person. Very bright, very funny, and actually rather timid.
*Spoiler* I thought he fixed the autopilot months earlier but no one knew... that's why he's seen later by his butler in Italy with Catwoman. Though, I still think it's very much a Christ archetype. I'm not one to usually watch these sorts of movies (actually this is the first one ever) but I found it an amazingly deep and thoughtful film. Thank you for this commentary.
That moment whem you tell your atheist friend that batman is a "icon of Christ" then they watch this video. There face ... XD.
I'm surprised you saw Bane as a figure of "Evil". I was sure he was a figure of Justice or more specifically Judgement. Justice is harsh and exacting. It demands of you exactly what you have taken. The fact is that, strictly speaking, the people of Gotham deserved to be destroyed, for all their corruption, or passivity in the face of corruption. Batman, on the other hand, is a kind of "Christ figure", and he represents Mercy. The movie is a conflict between Mercy and Judgement. So what we end up with is Batman sacrificing himself, out of Mercy and Love, for a people who did not really deserve it. It's a very Christ-like sacrifice. I think the Joker, from the previous film, is more of a personification of evil. To dismiss Bane as merely "Evil" is to miss out on a lot of the themes conveyed in the dialogue.
This may sound like a very harsh conception of Judgement, but it is a higher divine Judgement, and it is meant to be extremely exacting. Don't forget that in the biblical account God once destroyed all living things with a flood; besides Noah and his family, that is.
Judgement is for each individual. Gotham was never beyond saving, also. Bane was truly evil, a lunatic.
Good video.
I saw this movie last night, father. There was a line where Bruce Wayne responds to "You've given everything you have." with "Not yet." Clearly implying that he still had one thing left that he could give, his life. That, plus when he "died," made me think of what you mentioned in a previous video, Christ figures in the popular culture.
Bruce Wayne's answer for the fall into misery and suffering is intimidation and justice. His fears were mastered to manipulate other's fears, which were aggravated by the Joker. When the Dark Knight became the scapegoat symbol for Gotham, Wayne's own fears hobbled him up in the hole of his ego mansion. When fear could not overcome vicious brutality, Wayne could at least reorient his courage to shed his vigilante persona to rescue Gotham from a nihilistic monism.
When Batman took the fall for Harvey Dent's crimes, he was forced to become the villain to save a city that didn't initially want him at that time.
Even though Batman escapes, the metaphor is still there. Gotham believes it to be a sacrifice.
Awesome analysis!
I was wondering when you were gonna do this. Finally you did, and I am not disappointed. Great review father.
Don't bother watching any other film. This is the best one that can be.
I thought he was seen later in France.
Robert Williams Italy, not France.
Father, will you do a video on the Shroud of Turin?
Batman in the Nolan trilogy began with a question: why do we fall. The father of Bruce Wayne answered after picking his young son out of a well. But Bruce Wayne's father fell dead after having been shot during a petty robbery. Bruce Wayne's answer became a symbol of primal fear after descending into the underworld to master his fear. But the manipulation of other people's fears brought the anarchic madness of Joker into Gotham. And Gotham's representative of law and order fell with Harvey Dent.
But Batman did not really sacrifice. He understood the power of the image, but he did find a way out in the end.
Amen to that!
I never saw this Batman Bishop. I LOVE the antique. And i prefer Smallville. Is the first time i saw this but thank you! 😇😇😇👼☄️💐💗🕊️
It's in the title of the movie, RISES
The John Blake ie Robin character at the end of Dark Knight Rises is like the Gary Cooper character in High Noon. Blake tosses his law badge away after his frustration and disappointment with the institutions and people of Gotham. American mythology seems to value the lone individual riding into the West only to save the community another day. The only question at the end of this movie is whether another Dark Knight will rise with righteous anger and fear to right wrongs on his own.
Father Barron has elsewhere discussed conversion as a movement from the small narrow ego into the "larger soul". The Bruce Wayne arc in these movies have been through the first several rooms of that Interior Castle of Avila. The persona symbols of primal fear and scapegoat have been shed to begin again at love. If only Wayne had used his wealth and influence along with the love for Rachel, perhaps love, law and property might have challenged evil, hate and suffering in Gotham.
I agree with your observation on Bane's voice. Reminded me of the Sean Connery character from SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy. I agree with your other observations also haha.
Why not?
Considering how unique the story of Christ is, that God becomes Man to be the Sacrifice for All against Evil, has no parallel in history, I'd say it's a step. Granted, my way of becoming Catholic was having read City of God by St. Augustine. But that's because I had already seen a similar corollary in my readings and my experience. From there, I simply grew into it. Not everyone gets a divine revelation all at once. For most, it's a step at a time.
I was hoping you were going to talk about and expand upon the scene in the prison where Bruce is told by the blind man something along the lines of fear of death being the ultimate strength of the spirit, or Alfred's comment "I see the power of belief" as he watched Bane through the security cameras. Some of the movie reminded me of the writings of the Spanish mystic St John of the Cross and his book 'The Dark Night of the Soul.'
Wasn't the autopilot on Batman's plane repaired? I thought that was revealed after the climax, resulting in Batman's survival of the atomic explosion. He didn't really sacrifice himself at all.
you forgot to mention bishop barron that at the end of the movie, michael caine sees bruce wayne and his girlfriend sitting at a cafe, which symbolizes Christ's resurrection to his believers. so the resurrection motif is there too, but it's subjective and open to interpretation.
Batman doesn't sacrifice anything in this film. He bails out of the bat plane and goes to live in Tuscany with Anne Hatheway.
does anyone else think that since we in fact thought he was dead only to find out he was still living at the end that it could signify the resurrection?
Howdy
My original comment penned in haste and anger was not fully in line with the Fr. Barron's analogy. Mea Culpa if you have had to defend my misrepresentation, the task at which you have excelled. My Thanks.
Sean Connery as Darth Vader; that movie I'd like to see!
I personally believe that, on the contrary, this type of movies will always deceive the viewers about the true nature of the fight against evil. Not only do the bad guys get killed before Batman gets you sacrifice himself, but he does that so people can carry on with their lives as usual. No change on that side. No clear direction, no clear purpose as an outcome from Batman's sacrifice.
I would contend that the batman movie was more gnostic in content. When batman is asked why he won't reveal his identity, he replies that the whole point of batman is that he could be anyone. It doesn't take a special, super human individual. This speaks to the gnostic principle that the is a spark of the divine within everyone, and that by cultivating it anyone can become one of these savior-like people. Am I way off base with that?
The key scene in Dark Knight Rises,when the already recluse Bruce Wayne becomes the Dark Knight again to confront the beast of brutality, and is literally and figuratively broken and thrown into a prison pit. Bane grants Wayne like Gotham an opportunity to escape the confines by their own efforts. Bruce Wayne's answer to his father's question is courage. The Gotham citizenry solution is vindictive social justice to alleviate misery and suffering. But courage and justice had death looming over it
The Christ figure analogy goes even further than what Fr. Barron says. Lets not also forget that batman has the "clean slate" device that can wipe away someone's past or "forgive all" if you will. Catwoman wants this from Batman so she can live a normal life not burdened by her crimes. This reminds me of St. Mary Magdalene specifically, but sinners in general who can only find salvation in Christ. Batman is the Christ-figure here, and thus he is the one who can "remove sin".
whoa... that is brilliant...hadn't seen that at all
Great video Father. I really liked the voice of Bane in the movie, Bane reminded me of Sauron in the Lord of the Rings films, he had a very similar voice as well. His voice sounded as if it was recorded on a separate track and placed over the movie's track. This gave his voice a very penetrating, overbearing tone. I thought his voice represented true evil. His voice surrounded you, drowned out everything else, and it overshadowed everything around it. Batman then is Goodness,is Christ-like
Isn't Christ not only the most famous, then, but also the perfection of a human desire for Christ, made manifest in ancient traditions?
Did he fix it? I saw the movie twice and apparently missed this!
I would be interested to see Fr. Barron's comments on Looper, which has a similar Christ archetype in it.
Batman, symbol of primal fear, turned into the Dark Knight scapegoat. The autonomous individual citizen of Gotham had taken the law into his own hands, like many in the corrupt Gotham bureaucracy compromised by the criminal underworld. The law and order district attorney became above the law. When Bruce Wayne realized what had happened, he took responsibility for Dent's death to become the scapegoat symbol for Gotham. People who take the law into their own hands brings further destruction.
( Cont) simplest and truest religion there is. Keep in mind I am not religious, but I do love the surpassing beauty that religion has to offer. But one should study all religion not just christianity. Because you will never understand religion to it's fullest context if you don't learn to forever inquire into religion and into yourself and in the process yearn for more like the jews, or lose yourself in the forever vastness which the hindu religion make tangible.
J.M.J.
That's where you're wrong. It would be completely impossible for a human to say "the fruit was both fully an apple and fully an orange" and make it a reality, because man does not have the power to be above the laws of nature.
But God is above the laws of nature, since He created them, hence, if He wished, He could say "the fruit was both fully an apple and fully an orange" and it would be a reality. Jesus is true God and true man.
Disagree. There is a scene in the film where Catwoman implores Batman to stop. That he'd done enough for everyone - that he'd given them everything. He responded "not everything" - meaning, not "his life". That he survived in my opinion was also awesome because Christopher Nolan now allows another writer, or himself in the future, to resume the story - with Robin and Catwoman also in tow. Won't require a total reboot.
Kind of the same as movies like Armageddon or Deep Impact where another figures are "self sacrificed" for the human kind. Thanks Father Barron.
Great ending
True, I am, as St. Paul says, "a fool for Christ." Aside from which, Christ was both fully man, and fully God. He was fully mortal, and could thus experience death just as any other mortal. This is attested to by pagan historians, as well as various Jewish historians, along with other contemporary writers. and Catholic martyrs know they could or will die, but the also believe in a life hereafter, where they will receive a just reward for their actions on earth. Thus the Eternal soul.
Hollywood couldn't make a dime without the Bible.
The video is called "Is Hell Crowded or Empty?" Check it out.
Catholicism makes no such claims as to how many are in Heaven and Hell. Some of the saints, however, have varied greatly on their independent thoughts on the matter. I believe Fr. Barron has a video on the Catholic view of Heaven and Hell that might be more illuminating on the subject,
Is that why Bruce Wayne (spoiler alert) survives the blast? Is it because he is as Christ and returns after his sacrifice?
Is it a sacrifice if nothing is lost?
Doesn't Christ come back after being crucified in the bible? Appearing before the disciples before ascending into heaven where we anticipate the second coming
@
Yes, that’s a good recap of the end of Jesus’ story.
I think I’m missing the point you’re trying to make.
Thank you for getting the Star Wars reference Jedi versus Sith you ternal struggle
This needs an "Additional Commentary" please
. 1:13 -- The Horned Moses!!!
. A wonderful, unintentional androgeny of good and evil?
YEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Star Wars, Batman and the story of Jesus all follow a common mythological hero pattern that expresses itself throughout many cultures, religions and epochs. I suggest everyone read Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell.
Father, I may have misunderstood the ending of the movie, but I think the autopilot still worked, thus allowing Bruce Wayne to continue to live. That makes the ending much more ambiguous than your interpretation. It's a fake self-sacrifice, which only perpetuates the anti-Christian myth that violence can cast out violence. There are deep Judeo-Christian themes in the movie, but I don't see forgiveness. Without real self-sacrifice the myth of redemptive violence continues-thus the need for Robin.
alfred,gordon,lucius,blake finding out bruce is still alive is like when the disciples find out jesus is back ..
If your claim is true, that the pattern of salvation is ingrained in the culture, it is natural to ask why such a pattern would be in a culture in the first place, let alone in a diversity of cultures spanning geography and time. Perhaps that the myth reveals a truth, the fables reveal a moral, and the stories reveal a real truth regarding human nature: that we are desperately in need of salvation.
I'd be concerned if there weren't multiple images of Christ throughout history. The fact that the world seeks this pattern doesn't negate its validity. The universal presence of a myth in cultures quite often means that its not a myth, but something very much real and very much true.
I wouldn't really call Bane's League of Shadows 'revolutionaries,' if that's what you are referring to. The real revolutionaries would be the heroic cops, who charge the enforcers of the new regime instituted by Bane at the film's climax. I also don't think the Star Wars films have a really dualistic view, demonstrated by Anakin Skywalker's redemption and defeat of the embodiment of Darkness, the Emperor.
@yahwehhooie no one claims that He was Caucasian, nor do we claim that he was nailed through the palms. Take note of how the portrait of Our Lord in this video shows him nailed through the wrists, at 1:44. The shroud of Turin also shows Him nailed through the wrists. (proper support). If you learned a bit of history, you would know that the "art" of crucifixion was lost after its outlawing in 313. The method was lost due to lack of practice, so it is no wonder He is most often depicted as
Bishop Barron and I share the same Howard Scones Bob Dylan biography!
Wonderful movie, wonderful review. But I was hoping you'd deal with...
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the fact that he somehow survived at the end. For one thing, I can't imagine how! Even for a movie I found it hard to accept. On a deeper level, it seemed to take away the impact of his sacrifice. I'd love to hear more thoughts on this.
If you look even closer at the Dark Knight Rises plot points in relation to The Christ motif, you notice that The Dark Knight (Batman) literally rises out of a pit that is called “Hell on earth”. Now consider that this film came from Hollywood and ask if it’s actually a glorification of a False Christ like the Antichrist, who has all the hallmarks of Christ, but finishes the movie off with a magicians trick to escape the detonation, similar to how the Antichrist will enact his own sorcery to “rise from the dead”. The book of Apocalypse even has The Antichrist “coming up from the pit”. Just a thought
Just read my friend. Read, read, read and then read some more. There's nothing that improves a vocabulary better. It improves it subconciously as well. Don't just read dry material either that will put you to sleep, bore you and dissuade you from reading. There's going to be some of that already in the seminary. Read for pleasure. Mark Twain, John Steinbeck, whatever. Whatever you're going to enjoy.
FOR ANYONE WHO'S NOT RELIGIOUS AT ALL HE DOESN'T START TALKING ABOUT BATMAN UNTIL 4:00!!!
🤔 how is evil solved on the cross? Evil 👿 👿 👿 👿 is still rampant in the world. Evil was not cured, only has the opt to repent.
Ironic because Wayne actually lies to Gordon and doesn't actually die - he gives the impression that he is sacrificing himself but then he escapes and enjoys an early retirement somewhere in Europe LOL
+Emerson Sortun Hmm... do you know the odds of him escaping a nuclear bomb? He doesn't lie to Gordon because the chances of him surviving are not good even with autopilot.
??? maybe the device explodes underwater, the movie washes over the consequences of that for the city and its population. my point is bruce was planning his escape from the batman identity all along, he wasn't intending to sacrifice himself. he would if he needed to but if he could escape, all the better. hardly an echo of jesus
Emerson Sortun I get what your point is but again I disagree. He was not planning his escape from the Batman identity all along. And even if he was the likelihood of him surviving the blast is very slim. The idea of him escaping Batman identity was an afterthought of his sacrifice. It would have to be because again the likelihood of him surviving wasn't in his favor. I also highly doubt that the device explodes underwater as it certainly didn't look that way when it exploded. Furthermore, Jesus is both human and divine. Batman clearly is not. The only way that Batman's sacrifice could be an echo of the death and resurrection of Jesus in the way it was done in TDKR.
i don't understand why you think his survival was in doubt any more than the other inhabitants of Gotham. He didn't actually fly out over the water... he got out ...
he planned to escape the batman identity FOR SURE. he went through all the trouble to name and groom a successor (Joseph Gordon Levitt)
Thought this was going to have something about the movie in it
Sorry to rain on your parade but you've left out an important part of the story to make Batman's ending as Christlike as possible. When he got on his "special" plane, he didn't know that he was going to die as you said. In fact, he probably knew that he was going to live since he had installed the auto pilot function 6 months earlier.
Your point remains nowhere. He (allegedly) went through suffering when he did not have to. That constitutes a sacrifice in any definition. you can say that he didn't sacrifice his life per se to the fullest extent because he knew he was coming back but that doesn't mean its not a sacrifice
Hm, interesting. I guess I just missed whenever it was they said that he fixed the autopilot and THAT'S how he survived.
But then, this changes the entire movie for me! Gah! How I wish I'd never seen that final scene! Now all the emotional/spiritual impact is nearly gone for me.
Now I wonder if the bat symbol in the poster resemble a pair of angelic wings is intentional or a coincidence.
Isn't the Christ archetype just a common thread that runs through all human cultures and traditions (e.g. Horus in Egypt), that just happens to find its most famous example in Christ?
Is not the problem of evil solved in the Star Wars movies by the great act of self-sacrifice of the newly redeemed Anakin Skywalker, in his return to the light and turn against the great evil of the Emperor? Just a thought. Great commentary.
The supposed "Son of God" would be able to have eternal bliss without sacrificing himself.
At first I was in shock, somebody from church is actually comparing the religion and the movie, but than... It has sense. There is something very important in common for both. It's a fiction. :)
Yes but he still had to go through the pain and suffering (according to the story) so his sacrifice was truly selfless.
And he left the keys to the Batcave with a worthy successor. Was Robin handpicked by Batman?
It was
It wasn't a sacrifice at all, because he didn't die. It was another deception on Batman's part, just like him taking the fall for Harvey Dent's crimes in the previous film. He essentially left Gotham with the image of Batman as a sacrificial messiah, which is not the truth. You could easily argue that the subtext of the film is about how the Christ archetype is deceptive.
"There is nothing virtuous about self-sacrifice"...? REALLY?? Tell that to the mother of a dead soldier. Or new parents sacrificing sleep to take care of a baby. Or someone volunteering their time to help the poor. Etc, etc, etc.
.....or that all the creators of these stories and myths were subconsciously following a common storytelling pattern ingrained in their culture, and Jesus is just one of many of these mythologies that follows a common template.
...Campbell's figures, and most "saviour" figures of the West, actually adhere to what Walter Wink calls "The Myth of Redemptive Violence." This is where I might disagree a bit with Fr. Barron (though it was a very good video and I quite enjoyed his analysis). The Western saviour figure is not necessarily a Christ figure. The saviour figure in the West is the heroic warrior who punches evil in the face until it stops: Marduk, He-Man, Capt. America, Schwarzenegger. Jesus inverts that.
Every Bishop who does not follow the Pope, calles himself an "Orthodox." There are about 80 different organizations of "Orthodox Bishops" many of them have suffered to be controlled by governments and emporers, for their organization has no visible head Mat 16:19, Isa 22:22.
Protestantism was created after the invention of the printing press. Before the printing press, if you wanted scriptures you had to have them had written... with a quil, and papyrus (difficult).
Watch the videos by MHFM1
and the scarlet letter is just a book
Oh sure... the idea of punching evil in the face has been appealling long before subwoofers and 3D CGI SFX.
There is such a thing as good an evil but they are far far apart un this life most of our actions are in the grey area. Second of all I am not Christian, I merly love the beauty that is in all religions, and truth be told I came into my religious wonderment through hinduism, but I do love christianity althought it is a beautiful religion it's simplicity is a source of it's greatness and a cognitive dissidents in that religion. And thirdly religion is not a one size fits all proposition.
Spoiler*** So did bat man rise from the dead? Sure, the story could have ended with Batman giving his life... but it didn't Bruce is seen by Alfred, and he is having lunch with Catwoman (Selina). He likely fixed the auto pilot, and just used this death to leave Gotham and begin a new life. Still... if he had died, it is a great comparison.
kur1tan Yeah thats what I thought