Audio | J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - The Ending of Time - Conversation 8
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J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Ojai 1980 - 8: Can insight be awakened in another?
Series: The Ending of Time
Summary:
What is the relationship to society of a man who has insight? What is his action with regard to war and the whole world?
Q: What is the significance of mankind in the universe, or in the ground?
‘Y’ is concerned with ‘Show me, prove it to me, what benefit it has, will I get my future...’ And he is looking at ‘X’ with the eyes that are so accustomed to this pettiness. He reduces that immensity to his pettiness and puts it in a temple, and has therefore lost it completely. But there is something so immense that ‘X’ says, ‘Please do look at this,’ and ‘Y’ translates this into, ‘Show it to me, prove it to me, will I have a better life?’
‘X’ brings light. That’s all he can do.
To divert the course of man’s destruction somebody must listen.
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X is doing his job- even after his physical death. Hopefully, someday we will have a group of 10 Xs - that will revolutionize this world. I think it will happen!
Thanks Krishnamurti foundation.
Also X is very attractive, He does not leave the person, who even listen him once.
I am available.
"Hopefully" - Ironically, JK destroys hope - all of it. As, in hope, lurks time.
It s happening!
Let's add 2 of them, by you dispelling your darkness, and me mine
Each conversation I listen to brings a greater loneliness since I realise I've never truly communicated with anyone
but.......you are communing with the very ground of being............that has unmeasurable impacts in the energy field surrounding you and yours............I personally see the feeling of loneliness as a slip back into the fold of darkness..... who or what is lonely?....you are never alone.....as you are part of the whole.....it is a continual process or better said as a sharpness in awareness of what is really taking place. a constant paying attention to it. Maybe?
It seems nor has K
I’m not being facetious : Who wants doom? Put up your hands. No one? Let’s start from there. But really think about it.
There is no division in the universe. In this sense you might have been always already connected to everything and everyone
It’s about embracing duality, embodying duality with absolute identification and integration. Here, Loneliness is and Loneliness is not. Both are cosmically dancing. Thought is an amoeba as compared to living
They won't listen sir, they are always busy on their illusory...
Chào ông bạn người Việt Nam
Haha
They don't listen cuz it's nontrivial
This conversation is basically a summary of the dilemma of K's life. He felt that no one ever listened. The internet now enables the possibility of a few that are really concerned with listening.
"If it doesn't happen, the society will sooner or later collapse."... Dr. Bohm says....
as do they all eventually
“The very doing nothing maybe the doing”…..
"That man's mind constantly moves in the light of insights" ... K says.
Is this what K meant when he said "without a single trace of effort"?
The mind of a single tree in the field ... through the existence of that tree the Ground delivers Light to darkness...? ...Wow ... a beautiful sight!
By doing nothing, X recognizes everything and the Ground is One and present and this allows the Ground to flow to its own Self. Oh, such beauty & perfection in this poverty-stricken world. We, who made movement of thoughts, can only see smidgen of its reflection. Now, to be like X or to recognize X is to have a happy step in my heart but looks like everyone else in this world.❤
Really really thankful to have been able to listen this as if it was live discussion. No words can express the gratitude I feel. if only more can touch the ground collectively for a movement to begin for new compassionate beings replacing the darkness
The shift occurs when we understand in our heart, in our blood, that all the inventions and attempts of thought, of time, will NEVER succeed in getting us out of darkness, and that our brain is in no way personal, but that of all humanity. Time stops and the type of movement changes: We are this movement.
Being "Y", I feel I've already translated & interpreted what "X" has communicated in the video! 😢
yes and being x i was searching this comment to laugh
X is very attractive, He does not leave the person, who even listen him once.😀
The word meaning has no meaning there!
Brilliant!!
6:35 - How does an enlightened one exist?
30:51 - How does he exist with others?
42:35 - What is his impact?
I've been here. I am listening. Thank you JK Foundation Trust. I was born 6 years after this immense event has taken place.
The rabbit hole is keep getting deeper and dapper. Hold on to your...whatever you are holding on.
Or, may be, not hold at all!
I never had this idea, that as a living being, i have the possibility of universe, the universe speaks through this device across time and space
In this video K seems to be scolding his children for their pettiness
Why should have any skill to live ... Does this connect K with Jesus who said, "Why worry about how to live. ... Even Lily in the valley clothed more beautifully than Solomon..." And so on.....
Humans are too greedy and not able to share life with others.
However, K says,
"X's demand is 'Come out of the darkness.'" and "X brings light." ....
The light X would bring will directly help people leave the darkness...? 🙏❤️😄😁😅
we better stop sir....
Right, sir, we better stop
i am x and suffering now how is this happens ? actually being x i dont want to know the answerr but i my life sucks
26:00 so if we are out of darkness there is a very very very few relationships to other or none at all , it seems very real and fact but is this really true ? Can u see this gentelmen?
10/8/2019
JK mendapat kesulitan untuk menjelaskan dengan kata-kata sebab "itu" adalah kualitas yang tidak bisa dijelaskan dengan kata-kata, tidak ada yang bisa dilakukan untuk mengerti hal "itu" !! kecuali berada pada level yang sama.🙏🙏🙏
❤
37:00 is that the only function of x? (45:24 different degrees of conciousness 53:26)
X vs Y and A, B, C ...
Who has lost the Self... ?
Those who have Ears to listen ... ?
I'm ni
"Listen to the immensity calling"....
Can't belief that there are thumbs down after listening to this.
There r who are in ilusery state !
This is the ground we use to touch on these important issues... The field of opinions. And this generates a subtle contradiction. If opinions are irrelevant, what is the whole space of social networks?
14/02/19
16/07/21
@@jaganathrayan2831 22/12/2021
31/03/2024
I was here
hello are you x ?
Origins of X men
... absolute non-movement ... total loss of the feeling that is hopeful ... total hopelessness?
If I totally lost hope, could there be such thing as "insights"? Can I even move?
K says, " To eyes of Y, it's so hopeless, but not to X" ....
Intellectually, it's easy to answer you, but it doesn't do any good, apart from exciting the field of ideas, which is already very excited...
If I want to understand Krishnamurti, who says that it is necessary to listen with all my senses, and I do not pay attention to the way I am listening to what he says, trying to elucidate what Krishnamurti says will lead me to the same difficulties as when I want to elucidate how to solve a complex mathematical problem, only at the disposal of an expert who has studied a lot.
wow.
What was K trying to tell here? What is the job of X apart from writing/teaching/preaching etc.?
If it were easy to explain then the video would not be an hour long haha. You should watch the video again because K does a better job of explaining than anyone. My understanding is that K is talking about an intelligence that is beyond time and thought, he refers to this intelligence as the "ground", which is order, cosmos. That ground can function through man and is capable of wiping away darkness (in other words the operation of that intelligence wipes away any confusion). Now suppose X has this intelligence operating. Because X has this intelligence operating X may see something which Y does not. For example X may see that psychologically there is no division at all. Y may not see that. Y wants X to reduce this tremendous intelligence to something as small as teaching, writing, preaching, but what is being overlooked is the ground, which is why at 54:27 K asks, "We are trying to find out what is that greater that must be operating?" K is enquiring into that immense intelligence. What is that intelligence? Why does it operate in one person and not in another? How is X to convey this ground to Y? Nothing that X says or does can get Y to understand, so all that is left is to do nothing, and "that very doing nothing may be the doing" 59:00.
@@DPLS77 , right.
@@bisocvasile522 But it is impossible to understand it if you yourself have not arrived to discard all that (you yourself, the one who writes the commentary or listens to Krishnamurti, even now). We always think about that fictitious, external case, and for us it is equal to coherence, to reality, to logic...
14th August 2021
Anyone out there outside the box an "x" reaching out. 2023 yr
i am x and i want to meett another x
X is a creator!
❤️
16/10/2021
🙏💥🧡
One of my favorites
These talks, so amazing.
Fantabulous 😍
4th June 2020.
23th Dec 2020. 👍
13th may 2021
14 August 2021
@@Gaurav.P0 4 jan 2023
A question about the differentiation between psychological time and physical or chronological time. I don't know if anyone else is also uncomfortable with such a separation.... We, as individuals (this is the basis of the human being, the separate identity), observe "external" entities governed by the pass of time. We see that the flower blooms and withers, we see that the day ends and night comes, that a radioactive element has a half-life of X years, and so on. That is, as a result of this separate observation, the observed entities are decreed to be governed by space-time: space-time is inherent in everything observed.
Thus, to the extent that an external entity is ascertained, an internal entity is also ascertained, the observer, the "I". This observer is in no way distinguishable from that which is observed, both are treated equally: they are independent elements that inhabit a common scenario, interacting causally with each other. If we look at this homogenisation, it is hiding a heterogeneity, a fundamental anisotropy: everything observed is intimately linked to the observer (the observer is the observed), they are complementary opposites images split off from a totality (and not analogous elements), therefore, the fundamental structure that is absolutely irrefutable is this duality, this observational fact, which is thought itself.
Physical time (external) and psychological time (internal) would be copies adapted to each of these homogenised elements, the I and the Thou (to simplify). If we remove this layer that equalises the fundamental anisotropy, we come to the conclusion that this division of time is fictitious, just as much as the internal-external, or psychological-material division.
A related aspect of what we are discussing is that all that is recorded (consciousness) is entirely human-made. Galaxies, planets, science, psychology, mountains, trees, emotions, I, Thou... Everything is the product of the human being, that "someone" who has ascertained its presence, conceptualising it. In other words: everything we see around us and that shapes the universal reality we inhabit, at all levels of manifestation, is the human being himself. The human being IS thought, duality, the fragmentary realm of the cosmos; in the words of David Bohm, the explicate order. To perceive duality is to see the truth. The repercussions of such perception are immeasurable....😊
If I were looking at a tree is there a me who is looking at the tree, or there is only a state of looking? My understanding is that thought is responsible for creating the self. Whenever thought is in movement there is a feeling of division, a separate self and the thing being observed. If one is able to look at something with complete attention, without the movement of thought there is no division, but to do that is arduous because our minds are occupied with what happened yesterday, what will happen tomorrow, etc. When there is no division then there is something else which is immeasurable. As K famously puts it, “To understand the immeasurable, the mind must be extraordinarily quiet, still.”
@@DPLS77 The most fascinating consequence of detached observation (on which the conditioned, personal action that is the human being is based) is the disastrous, dangerous, but also comical attribution of consensual or universal realities. It is necessary to pay attention to this, especially now that the world is teetering between potential wars, conflicts and critical environmental problems.
As simple as turning on the television and watching the news. If we were to do a survey, asking people what they thought of the news programme they had just seen, almost everyone (if not everyone) would surely pass judgement on the content of the programme. "I agree; I don't think it's right; this is madness, where will we end up; bah, I'm not interested, let the politicians take care of it"... However, no one will question the intimate nature of the event. What's more: watching the news, observing whatever it is, is never taken into account as an event in itself, as a fact. On the contrary, the story that is told on television, the memory associations that are activated when something is judiciously observed, all this cognitive, conceptual, verbal content, is tacitly taken as the real event or fact. Obviously, this is absolutely false, because it is fragmentary, over-acted, arbitrary.
In short: the account of thought is fiction, but the structure of thought or duality is fact, it is truth. What the film tells is false, but the film production system is true.
The account of the human condition that speaks of evolution, improvement and the struggle for equality (what the news tells) is fictitious. However, it is true that this fiction is continuously and systematically sustained.
A trick: the apparent truth is tremendously complex, unstable, expensive and open to countless revisions, discussions and struggles (the consensual scientific, philosophical, political, social or religious truth). Truth, however, is of unparalleled simplicity, it has nothing to do with the consumption of energy (effort-space-time), for energy consumed is equivalent to "form", and independent form is the brick with which the false truth - which we can call "reality" - is built.
When the reality-generating energy is depleted, this correlates with a critical, collapsing fabric of reality. Post-truth, fake news, denialism, etc. are just examples of the unsustainability of the fabric of consensual or universal reality, based exclusively on images or forms. It is impossible to continue living with our backs turned to the fact, which is the observational act, which takes place only in the now, which is non-duality, emptiness, energy, non-time, non-form.😊
Is there a next conversation in this series?
7 more in this series - although these take place at Brockwood Park: th-cam.com/play/PL1n30s-LKus4MyNuceRoFAes5teZS_guW.html
@@KFoundation thank you so much. I was born in 1980 and how incredible that after 42 years they is still valid. This proves the ground and the man who lived with it both are timeless. To listen to them feels like to be with truth.
@@KFoundation is it possible to have subtitles in Hindi? Or copy of the transcripts as my mother doesn't understand English too well?
@@BamBhole1 You can find the transcripts for these conversations on jkrishnamurti.org/
@@KFoundation found the 1st one. 👍