Ironically, TJ Watt had a sack unfairly taken away from him during the week 18 game against the Ravens in 2021. When the play was over it was ruled a sack that tied Strahan's "record" but later during the game they ruled it a TFL instead. Watt would go on to get another sack that actually did count which would be his last of the regular season at 22.5. However, Watt should actually have 23.5 sacks for that season, which would also be more than Al Baker and would be the undisputed record. This should also be a stat correction that should be made but I doubt the NFL would ever do that. I'd be shocked if they even changed Strahan's stats let alone Watt's.
I'd say the injury that cost him couple of games were the bigger factor. Had he played 16 games he likely would have gotten it. Also you should note that Strahan had couple of sacks taken from him from similar manner as well, one prime example is the first game against the Redskins. It wasn't a big deal at the time...
JaguarGator Man, I really appreciate your videos and all the research you put into these projects. I’ve been following the NFL since the 70’s and lots of people think I’m like an NFL encyclopedia. But I give credit where credit’s due. You have such great videos on unique topics that most people wouldn’t even think of. I especially like the old school footage that you come up with. Some of the game footage I’ve seen, others I haven’t. It’s great to see some of the old players whose names I haven’t thought of for a while. Keep putting out your great videos and I’ll keep watching. BTW, you have an excellent collection of jerseys and helmets. I’m sure you probably have others that you keep locked up for safe keeping. All the best, HH
Woah, seeing you on the Around The NFL Podcast was awesome!! I’ve been a fan of that show for so long and to see such a good creator get a shoutout is cool.
I think that the NFL should just SPIKE the football into the ground 39.6 times instead of WORRYING about T.J. Watt, Michael Strahan, and Julius Peppers.
No they don't. This is sports it's not important at all. People care but no one's lives are going to be affected in a meaningful way if they just ignore it and so they will.
So A) They aren't going to change stats years later, and B) interestingly enough I read an article explaining why it was a sack. The explanation is basically Yard x all the way until Yard Y is Yard X.
To balance it out, you should do a video about Strahan's sack on Tony Banks that was nullified by a questionable call from the refs who ruled it an incomplete pass earlier that same season. Because it was garbage time, Fassel never challenged the call and no one thought this would be that big of a deal at the time. What can be said, the sack record overshadowed Strahan's all around game. Not enough people realize that he was also great against the run.
My 1978 Topps Card collection indicated QB Sack leaders on each team for 1977, and the Cowboys team card had Harvey Martin at 23.5. Don't know how Topps company got that, though.
I really like this find. However, I don't think the stat will be (or should be) changed by the NFL, for these reasons: (Adding TL/DR here at the top instead of the bottom) TL/DR: Official game stats according to NFL are to be made within 24 hours of the game, and the actual spot made by the referees is what stats are based on, NOT where the ball SHOULD have been spotted.And we can't remove official stats without going over all other plays and removing other players sacks that shouldn't have been counted, or adding back in sacks that should have been counted but weren't. You cite the multiple times records were changed several years after the fact, but in both instances the records were removed because the player/coach did not do achieve the stat-in-question at all for an entire game. Neither example is a minor change yardage by a couple of inches. So the examples of precedent you gave aren't very relevant to this situation. If the NFL were to change minor markings like this, they would need to go back through every play in history and add sacks to players records that were recorded as tackles, and remove sacks from others (and they would need to update the stats for every type of stat, not just sacks. So official rushing yards, official passing yards, receiving yards, etc. would all need to be adjusted. It's unfair to take this play away from one player, and not to look at all the sacks of all the other players and remove potential doubts. Then it would be unfair to only remove sacks from player's counts, without looking at all the plays that should have been counted as sacks if they were rules as tackles. The NFL will not do this, as they would need to adjust every type of record, plus the camera angles will not give a perfectly accurate depiction of yardage. For example, this clip of Michael Strahan I think receives a poor camera angle for case at hand... if the camera and had been 15 yards upfield, with the view looking back towards the LOS, I don't think it would look nearly as suspect. You also quote the NFL's Guide for Statisticians. However, the guide states that the stats will be final after 24 hours: "In addition, the chief statistician shall, within an hour after the game, phone the League’s official statistician to answer any questions. The chief statistician shall compare the GSIS-generated statistics against any manually recorded play-by-play and/or statistics and notify the League’s official statisticians of any areas of disagreement between the manual statistics and GSIS (official) statistics; such notification shall occur within 24 hours after the completion of the game." In addition, you quote the current verbiage for a sack in the NFL's Guide for Statisticians. However, the guide has received several edits since the 2001 season. Changes/Edits to the sack section happened in the following years: 2004, 2017, 2018, 2021, 2023. The changes/edits to the sections will not retroactively affect how stats were recorded at the time the plays occurred, in this case the 2001 guide. Also, the location the ball SHOULD be spotted has no meaning. where the ball is spotted is what's relevant. For example, Ben Roethlisberger's TD in Superbowl 40 was an extremely close call, ruled a TD. If evidence came out now that proved that the ball should have been marked a half-inch short of the goal-line, would we take the TD away from this play? Of course not. Should we go back to all the controversial spots and inaccurate calls regarding catches/no-catches? No, because that wouldn't make any sense, just like changing this spot wouldn't make sense. You reference the line-judge on the sideline, but the referee coming from the back field is who spotted the ball, because he had view of the ball. You failed to show where the referee actually spotted the ball. The official play-by-play data from the NFL shows the spot at the end of 2nd down as the 44, the end of 3rd down at the 44, and the beginning of 4th down at the 44. Whether the ball should have been spotted and the 43 (or the 50, or the 30, or whatever) has absolultely no bearing on the actual spot made by the referee. The official game descriptions are: (2nd down: (12:06) 5-C.Stoerner pass to 49-J.Huggins to NYG 44 for 5 yards (20-S.Garnes). 3rd Down: (11:22) 5-C.Stoerner sacked at NYG 44 for 0 yards (92-M.Strahan, 4th down: 10:35) 4-M.Knorr punts 44 yards to end zone, Center-95-R.Chevrier, Touchback.). For reference, official game id is: 2001_08_DAL_NYG, play ids: 141.0. 162.0, and 190.0. I agree with you on what SHOULD have been ruled at the time. but I do not agree with you that the NFL should change the record, at least not with the evidence you provided. Great video, I will watch more from you.
This is awesome. I remember actually watching that stupid game where Favre took a dive for Strahan. Both men disgraced the game, though mostly were brilliant in their careers. I find your finding amazing. I LOVE NFL history and this is the kinda stuff I'd love to do if I had the time to do it. WELL DONE. Watt has the record, NFL should remove a sack from Strahan. But the NFL won't do that.
Deacon Jones had 2 seasons of almost 30 sacks in each in the late 1960s before sacks became official so you can always find something if you really want to
Nope. John Turney and Nick Webster did research for decades on player sack totals before 1982 and their numbers have been accepted by Pro Football Reference. The most sacks Jones had in a season was...22 (he did do it twice). Not sure where you got 30 from but if somoene who did decades of research on it say he had 22 and PFR has accepted this as fact, then so will I. And yes, they're the same people who figured out Al Baker had 23 in '78.
@@iamhungey12345 50s stats won't deliver anything above what Jones and others did. Much as I'd like to think it did. The 1950s were a special time in pro football, but the length of seasons, conditions, game scripts and the fact those boys were badass and were only gonna take so much shit from a "sack master" means the stats will be minimal. I hope everyone can tell how much Iove the 1950s boys, sadly many are moving on to the afterlife.
One of the things I wish the NFL would do is count actual sack numbers prior to 1982 when they started officially counting sacks as stats. Should probably go back to as far back as 1960 IMO. NFL has all the game & game summaries if you go way back.
Good find, but I'm guessing it'll be an uphill fight since the guideline you quoted says "statistical" gain/no gain, and I'm assuming the ball was officially counted as still being at the 44 afterwards. Do you have footage of where the ball was physically placed for the next play?
no mention of Coy Bacon having 26 sacks in 14 games in 1976. Sacks weren’t an official “thing” until an NY media market team had a bunch of them in ‘82.
There is an issue with the lines you added. It looks like you failed to account for perspective and camera movement, as your lines are visibly not parallel to the network and field lines.
your line is crooked. but the qb did gain half a yard. if the qb has to be attempting a pass then the farve sack is out too. some guy on the eagles had between 8 and 19 sacks against the giants in one game. he must be the all time sack leader for 1 season. i though someone on the lions had 26 sacks in on season.
@randyw.4628 Even worse. I guess that will even things out, 1 extra road game and 1 extra home game but how do they even work that out logistically? They're going to end up having teams play a non division conference opponent twice in one season. It's going to be a mess, worse than when they had 31 teams for 3 seasons.
@PhilP8980 I wouldn't be surprised if they added a pair of international teams, seems like that's the direction it's headed. Even more of a logistical nightmare...
@randyw.4628 30 teams wad perfect. Art Modell had to mess it all up when he moved the Browns. As far as international goes the travel strain is too much. They can put one team in St. Louis and another in San Antonio. They ask teams to play on Thursdays, travel internationally to play "home" games, and play an 18 game schedule. It's too much.
You never mentioned where the ball was eventually spotted. Was the next play's line of scrimmage actually moved forward? We can see that the official's initial spot was for a gain, but initial spot is meaningless. Even if replay shows that it should not have been a sack, if the final spot makes it one then it is set in stone.
If you only count the "official" sack era, honorable mention must go to Reggie White. If not for the strike in 1987 he certainly would have passed everyone whose sacks have been documented with the exception of Deacon Jones. Also if not for the strike Jerry Rice would have put the single season touchdown reception record out of reach before Randy Moss could set the mark in the near perfect Patriots season of 2007. Finally, if not for the strike of 1982 Wes Chandler might have been the first, and so far only, 2000 yard receiver in a single season.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone this is the second NFL Expose story you’ve done. The first was on NFL Official Jason Ledet. The NFL starting point for that video was also a game between the Saints and Panthers.
I never understood the controversy regarding Favre giving himself up. We've seen Brady and Manning do that all the time when they knew they couldn't escape. It's a smart play really. Favre probably didn't even know how close Strahan was to the record.
What I would like to see is where the ball was spotted on the subsequent play. Was the ball spotted closer to the 44 or the 43 when the Cowboys presumably punted on the next play? And by spotted, I mean where the ball was actually snapped from, not where the official was first walking out from. With that said, one could make a good argument from this that sacks shouldn't be awarded on zero yardage plays, especially since in this case Stoerner wasn't intending to throw the ball when Strahan took him down.
Your second red line over the front of the ball seems to be off which may be due to the camera angle. Do you know what the down and distance was for the next play or where the ball was spotted? Based on the graphic it was 3rd and 3 on the play. Was it 4th and 3 on the next play or did the fox scorebug say 4th and 2?
I suspect you'd have to find a complete version of that game on TH-cam to see for sure. Accoring to the PFR play by play summar, it's listed as Stoerner getting sacked by Strahan for a gain of yards. The play begins at the 44 and the next play begins at the 44 as well.
Stat changes made after decades also happened in MLB. In a famous case, Mickey Mantle was discredited an RBI over 30 years after the game in question, therefore giving Jim Gentile a tie for AL leader in RBIs in 1961. If that was the only footage we have I'd presume nothing would happen because many people might claim it's too close to tell. Even with the line you juxtaposed, it may not be entirely accurate based on where the camera is, and the angle it's at. However I bet anything the NFL has footage of other angles of that play, and when they see this video, they'll lock them up forever.
@@fortynights1513 1990, actually. after 1990, they changed the rule so that you had to go 9 innings for a no hitter, plus they did the thing you mentioned and shore got credit for a combo no hitter and set another new record. in 1988, neil allen of the yankees came into a game with no out, 1 on in the top of the first inning. he then finished the game without giving up a run, was credited with a shutout, but not a complete game, the first in mlb history. when they changed the ernie shore thing, it meant shore was the first to do it, 72 years earlier.
What I like to do is ask NPC sheep if two people's feelings disagree with each other, then which person's feelings are fact, and watch their minds literally shut down. It's fun 😊
That’s it. I’m getting in my time machine to have them fix this immediately. Edit: Never mind. I got the NFL to correct the record and it led to nuclear apocalypse in 2018 so I set things back. Stupid Butterfly Effect!
It was found that he had 20. I'm guessing the extra three came from the postseason, remember Deacon Jones counted some of his sacks from there and Pro Bowls as well.
When Jared Allen had 22 sacks, during the season against the Packers, Rodgers took a bad snap and before he could do anything besides take a step, was tackled by Allen but it in the stat book it was recorded as only a tackle because it was an aborted play which is nonsense. Jared Allen is the rightful owner at 23 sacks.
EVERYTHING I knew about the sack record is wrong? Oh my, and I thought I maybe had a thing or two right. I'd say Deacon Jones is the true sack man, but why did it take the NFL so long to make sacks an official stat (resistance to change, I guess)? Good thing for Lawrence Taylor being fit for football and attacking opponents in a blind rage .
Two thing: 1) a Stat guideline is NOT rule book. It’s something to help the stats guys make decisions, 2) It doesn’t matter what you think, because in reality you are actually wrong. Because your INTERPRETATION of the exact moment a player’s knee hits the ground isn’t necessarily accurate because of timing, camera angle, and in this case need for a controversy to talk about. It was in fact ruled a no gain therefore it is a sack and will remain so. Also if you look hard enough you will likely find T.J. Watt had one or two that were not legitimate as well.
@@iamhungey12345 I have nothing specific. However if you were to look at every play where he got a sack you will likely find one very similar to this one. As it is very common in football.
Nah you’re tripping. You can see clearly the line of scrimmage is at the 44 yard line and he goes down at the 44 he never extends the ball so why would it be a gain? Its not.
This whole argument would be mute if there was no strike in '87. Reggie White had 21 sacks in 12 games. Miss 4 games and didn't play any of the scab games. I'll go out on a limb and assume he would have gotten more than 1.5 sacks in those 4 games he missed!
Even though it’s technically a sack, the sack that Favre gave Strahan is one of the most chicken 💩 things I’ve ever seen in football. TJ is the rightful king. And he did it in less games than Strahan.
Favre took a fall Number of games played in a season keeps changing so should the bar on seasonal records. Interesting proof, smoking gun. NFL will turn its head.
You take away this one and the Farve one that was clearly a run and Micheal should only have 20. So then you add Watt's that was taken away, also the half sack was said should of been a solo sack, and Watt would have 24. He would be well above everyone in first place.
Even if the line was drawn 100%, you're not accounting for parallax. The angle makes it look like he was closer to the line than he actually was. Unless you have a view looking directly along that line, this really isn't accurate. The same way you see a player look like they scored from the normal angle, but that goal line cam shows they're short. It's all perspective.
It's probably not a sack, BUT You shouldn't attempt to make a parallel red line to the unofficial (computer generated, not in real life) first down marker that is three yards away. Make your red line parallel to the 45-yard line that is less than two yards away and an actual line. Your line is clearly not parallel. That's in part because of the camera angle compared to the field's angle.
Hey I know you do content on football. But would you at least check into NASCAR and see if you can create videos about the interesting obscure stories and broadcasting blunders mainly committed by FOX.
@@OfficialJaguarGator9 I could even send you NASCAR TH-camrs, driver/crew chief podcasters and websites to get more in depth. You’re so knowledgeable about football and would love to see you touch on my other favorite sport.
Unfortunately you're conveniently ignoring that the next snap took place in the same spot on the 44 yard line, it was just a bad spot by the officials, making the sack statistically correct
Oh, jg9’s stirred up a hornet 🐝 nest with that video-that of the Steelers and the NFL-I don’t know what will happen-but jg9’s explanation that he has no agenda against the NFL is credible-and I accept that! However, tell that to the people who watched it! 😮😮😮😮😮
For balance he should consider doing a video about a sack that was taken from Strahan in the early season game against the Redskins where the refs ruled that the QB made an incomplete pass when the replay shows that the guy's knee was down before throwing the ball. At the time it wasn't a big deal and the Giants were winning the game so Fassel didn't challenge it.
Oooo ya... dont step on the towel ull get bad luck, last year a browns player wiped his butt...then they got riddled with injuries Trevor made slight fun of it and the jags were awful fir the rest of that season after that game So just...dont do it
If the Steelers wants to avoid wasting Watt's career, they should get all their scheduled opponents defacing the towel. That way a title is guaranteed.
Why won't they change it? Three words, New York Bias. That is the reason why a closer in the MLB is the only 100% voted player in the hall of fame. That is like a kicker being voted the best NFL player of all time.
Man, this channel is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for content ideas. All these "strictly football" TH-cam channels Getty increasingly desperate for content after football season ends, but this channel hit the wall earlier than most. 😂 Yawwwn😴💤
Ironically, TJ Watt had a sack unfairly taken away from him during the week 18 game against the Ravens in 2021. When the play was over it was ruled a sack that tied Strahan's "record" but later during the game they ruled it a TFL instead. Watt would go on to get another sack that actually did count which would be his last of the regular season at 22.5. However, Watt should actually have 23.5 sacks for that season, which would also be more than Al Baker and would be the undisputed record.
This should also be a stat correction that should be made but I doubt the NFL would ever do that. I'd be shocked if they even changed Strahan's stats let alone Watt's.
It wasn’t considered a sack because the snap was fumbled
I'd say the injury that cost him couple of games were the bigger factor. Had he played 16 games he likely would have gotten it. Also you should note that Strahan had couple of sacks taken from him from similar manner as well, one prime example is the first game against the Redskins. It wasn't a big deal at the time...
As a Steelers fan, I would love to see Watt get it. :)
JaguarGator Man,
I really appreciate your videos and all the research you put into these projects. I’ve been following the NFL since the 70’s and lots of people think I’m like an NFL encyclopedia. But I give credit where credit’s due. You have such great videos on unique topics that most people wouldn’t even think of. I especially like the old school footage that you come up with. Some of the game footage I’ve seen, others I haven’t. It’s great to see some of the old players whose names I haven’t thought of for a while.
Keep putting out your great videos and I’ll keep watching. BTW, you have an excellent collection of jerseys and helmets. I’m sure you probably have others that you keep locked up for safe keeping. All the best, HH
Thanks! Much appreciated. Love doing this kind of stuff and this collection took a long time to build up but it looks awesome on camera and on stream
You can see that official even declared him down past the L.O.S.
Edit: I see you already mentioned that.
New channel...
JG9 Investigation
Woah, seeing you on the Around The NFL Podcast was awesome!! I’ve been a fan of that show for so long and to see such a good creator get a shoutout is cool.
Wait I didn’t know about this! I’ll have to check it out!
Which episode?
I think that the NFL should just SPIKE the football into the ground 39.6 times instead of WORRYING about T.J. Watt, Michael Strahan, and Julius Peppers.
I have a feeling the NFL will have this video taken down so they don't have to deal with it 😆😆
No they don't. This is sports it's not important at all. People care but no one's lives are going to be affected in a meaningful way if they just ignore it and so they will.
@@deadend1041not sports it’s entertainment as argued in court by the nfl so it can have predetermined outcomes without any legal issues
So A) They aren't going to change stats years later, and B) interestingly enough I read an article explaining why it was a sack. The explanation is basically Yard x all the way until Yard Y is Yard X.
It's the 2020s and OJG9 just pointed out the truth. Right now I'm genuinely worried about him "suddenly disappearing" for good...
Yet they took down some videos where couple of sacks were taken away from Strahan due to questionable calls.
To balance it out, you should do a video about Strahan's sack on Tony Banks that was nullified by a questionable call from the refs who ruled it an incomplete pass earlier that same season. Because it was garbage time, Fassel never challenged the call and no one thought this would be that big of a deal at the time.
What can be said, the sack record overshadowed Strahan's all around game. Not enough people realize that he was also great against the run.
My 1978 Topps Card collection indicated QB Sack leaders on each team for 1977, and the Cowboys team card had Harvey Martin at 23.5. Don't know how Topps company got that, though.
Myron Cope's hearing that from above! 😆 Good catch on Strahan's "sack" in this game. Let's see if the NFL even responds to this because this is huge.
I really like this find. However, I don't think the stat will be (or should be) changed by the NFL, for these reasons:
(Adding TL/DR here at the top instead of the bottom)
TL/DR: Official game stats according to NFL are to be made within 24 hours of the game, and the actual spot made by the referees is what stats are based on, NOT where the ball SHOULD have been spotted.And we can't remove official stats without going over all other plays and removing other players sacks that shouldn't have been counted, or adding back in sacks that should have been counted but weren't.
You cite the multiple times records were changed several years after the fact, but in both instances the records were removed because the player/coach did not do achieve the stat-in-question at all for an entire game. Neither example is a minor change yardage by a couple of inches. So the examples of precedent you gave aren't very relevant to this situation. If the NFL were to change minor markings like this, they would need to go back through every play in history and add sacks to players records that were recorded as tackles, and remove sacks from others (and they would need to update the stats for every type of stat, not just sacks. So official rushing yards, official passing yards, receiving yards, etc. would all need to be adjusted. It's unfair to take this play away from one player, and not to look at all the sacks of all the other players and remove potential doubts. Then it would be unfair to only remove sacks from player's counts, without looking at all the plays that should have been counted as sacks if they were rules as tackles. The NFL will not do this, as they would need to adjust every type of record, plus the camera angles will not give a perfectly accurate depiction of yardage. For example, this clip of Michael Strahan I think receives a poor camera angle for case at hand... if the camera and had been 15 yards upfield, with the view looking back towards the LOS, I don't think it would look nearly as suspect.
You also quote the NFL's Guide for Statisticians. However, the guide states that the stats will be final after 24 hours: "In addition, the chief statistician shall, within an hour after the game, phone the League’s official statistician to answer any questions. The chief statistician shall compare the GSIS-generated statistics against any manually recorded play-by-play and/or statistics and notify the League’s official statisticians of any areas of disagreement between the manual statistics and GSIS (official) statistics; such notification shall occur within 24 hours after the completion of the game."
In addition, you quote the current verbiage for a sack in the NFL's Guide for Statisticians. However, the guide has received several edits since the 2001 season. Changes/Edits to the sack section happened in the following years: 2004, 2017, 2018, 2021, 2023. The changes/edits to the sections will not retroactively affect how stats were recorded at the time the plays occurred, in this case the 2001 guide.
Also, the location the ball SHOULD be spotted has no meaning. where the ball is spotted is what's relevant. For example, Ben Roethlisberger's TD in Superbowl 40 was an extremely close call, ruled a TD. If evidence came out now that proved that the ball should have been marked a half-inch short of the goal-line, would we take the TD away from this play? Of course not. Should we go back to all the controversial spots and inaccurate calls regarding catches/no-catches? No, because that wouldn't make any sense, just like changing this spot wouldn't make sense.
You reference the line-judge on the sideline, but the referee coming from the back field is who spotted the ball, because he had view of the ball. You failed to show where the referee actually spotted the ball. The official play-by-play data from the NFL shows the spot at the end of 2nd down as the 44, the end of 3rd down at the 44, and the beginning of 4th down at the 44. Whether the ball should have been spotted and the 43 (or the 50, or the 30, or whatever) has absolultely no bearing on the actual spot made by the referee. The official game descriptions are: (2nd down: (12:06) 5-C.Stoerner pass to 49-J.Huggins to NYG 44 for 5 yards (20-S.Garnes). 3rd Down: (11:22) 5-C.Stoerner sacked at NYG 44 for 0 yards (92-M.Strahan, 4th down: 10:35) 4-M.Knorr punts 44 yards to end zone, Center-95-R.Chevrier, Touchback.). For reference, official game id is: 2001_08_DAL_NYG, play ids: 141.0. 162.0, and 190.0.
I agree with you on what SHOULD have been ruled at the time. but I do not agree with you that the NFL should change the record, at least not with the evidence you provided. Great video, I will watch more from you.
Uh oh… you’ve activated the Steelers fans.
And we are here!!!!
UTree is going to go into Yinzer Mode if he finds out.
😤
Not to mention that even though it’s not the record, Reggie White’s 21 sacks in 12 games in 1987 is probably the greatest sack season in NFL history
I posted a version of this on my facebook page. This is beyond mind-blowing. Great stuff, man!
This is awesome. I remember actually watching that stupid game where Favre took a dive for Strahan. Both men disgraced the game, though mostly were brilliant in their careers. I find your finding amazing. I LOVE NFL history and this is the kinda stuff I'd love to do if I had the time to do it. WELL DONE. Watt has the record, NFL should remove a sack from Strahan. But the NFL won't do that.
Deacon Jones had 2 seasons of almost 30 sacks in each in the late 1960s before sacks became official so you can always find something if you really want to
Nope. John Turney and Nick Webster did research for decades on player sack totals before 1982 and their numbers have been accepted by Pro Football Reference. The most sacks Jones had in a season was...22 (he did do it twice). Not sure where you got 30 from but if somoene who did decades of research on it say he had 22 and PFR has accepted this as fact, then so will I. And yes, they're the same people who figured out Al Baker had 23 in '78.
@@DolFan316 They're working on the 1950s stats as well, it's a tall order but I wish them the best of luck.
@@DolFan316 Deacon Jones got 26 sacks in 1967 and that’s a fact it’s been proven.
@@iamhungey12345 50s stats won't deliver anything above what Jones and others did. Much as I'd like to think it did. The 1950s were a special time in pro football, but the length of seasons, conditions, game scripts and the fact those boys were badass and were only gonna take so much shit from a "sack master" means the stats will be minimal. I hope everyone can tell how much Iove the 1950s boys, sadly many are moving on to the afterlife.
Good looking out my man!
So, when Michael Strahan has been dead for 10 years, the NFL will rectify this.
One of the things I wish the NFL would do is count actual sack numbers prior to 1982 when they started officially counting sacks as stats. Should probably go back to as far back as 1960 IMO. NFL has all the game & game summaries if you go way back.
The research has been done and we now know every player's sack stats as far back as at least 1960. So...yes.
Not that it'll stop Derrick Thomas fans from using the current official sack numbers to prop their guy over LT.
Good find, but I'm guessing it'll be an uphill fight since the guideline you quoted says "statistical" gain/no gain, and I'm assuming the ball was officially counted as still being at the 44 afterwards. Do you have footage of where the ball was physically placed for the next play?
no mention of Coy Bacon having 26 sacks in 14 games in 1976. Sacks weren’t an official “thing” until an NY media market team had a bunch of them in ‘82.
There is an issue with the lines you added. It looks like you failed to account for perspective and camera movement, as your lines are visibly not parallel to the network and field lines.
Right. Due to the angle, it's going to appear to line up differently than what's presented.
your line is crooked. but the qb did gain half a yard. if the qb has to be attempting a pass then the farve sack is out too. some guy on the eagles had between 8 and 19 sacks against the giants in one game. he must be the all time sack leader for 1 season. i though someone on the lions had 26 sacks in on season.
Now that there's a 17 game schedule this record will go down soon anyway. I hate the 17 game schedule.
Gonna be 18 soon
@randyw.4628 Even worse. I guess that will even things out, 1 extra road game and 1 extra home game but how do they even work that out logistically? They're going to end up having teams play a non division conference opponent twice in one season. It's going to be a mess, worse than when they had 31 teams for 3 seasons.
@PhilP8980 I wouldn't be surprised if they added a pair of international teams, seems like that's the direction it's headed. Even more of a logistical nightmare...
@randyw.4628 30 teams wad perfect. Art Modell had to mess it all up when he moved the Browns. As far as international goes the travel strain is too much. They can put one team in St. Louis and another in San Antonio. They ask teams to play on Thursdays, travel internationally to play "home" games, and play an 18 game schedule. It's too much.
@@PhilP8980They are shortening the preseason a bit too much perhaps
Awesome, glad you did this. Thank you
You never mentioned where the ball was eventually spotted. Was the next play's line of scrimmage actually moved forward? We can see that the official's initial spot was for a gain, but initial spot is meaningless. Even if replay shows that it should not have been a sack, if the final spot makes it one then it is set in stone.
There you go again, stirring the NFL historical hornet’s nest. Then again I do that at my job.
If you only count the "official" sack era, honorable mention must go to Reggie White. If not for the strike in 1987 he certainly would have passed everyone whose sacks have been documented with the exception of Deacon Jones. Also if not for the strike Jerry Rice would have put the single season touchdown reception record out of reach before Randy Moss could set the mark in the near perfect Patriots season of 2007. Finally, if not for the strike of 1982 Wes Chandler might have been the first, and so far only, 2000 yard receiver in a single season.
I"m dissapointed this video is only 13 minutes only, was expecting a feature film
15 minutes, actually.
It's known that at least,2 tds scored by the Eagles in super bowl 52 shouldn't have counted do a show on that
As an Eagles fan, pats fans now have a reason to blame the refs for that.
I respect that opinion 👍
That’s BS.
This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone this is the second NFL Expose story you’ve done. The first was on NFL Official Jason Ledet. The NFL starting point for that video was also a game between the Saints and Panthers.
Yeah, Favre went down on purpose.
I never understood the controversy regarding Favre giving himself up. We've seen Brady and Manning do that all the time when they knew they couldn't escape. It's a smart play really. Favre probably didn't even know how close Strahan was to the record.
@@davidgalinat4257 I don't know. I always assumed that he was Ted Strahan to get the sack and did it all on purpose.
Did the refs give them the yard? Because stat guy needed to be fired if they did.
No, the next snap is right on the 44 yard line, looks like it was just a bad spot by the officials
Great job 👏 very interesting
What I would like to see is where the ball was spotted on the subsequent play. Was the ball spotted closer to the 44 or the 43 when the Cowboys presumably punted on the next play? And by spotted, I mean where the ball was actually snapped from, not where the official was first walking out from. With that said, one could make a good argument from this that sacks shouldn't be awarded on zero yardage plays, especially since in this case Stoerner wasn't intending to throw the ball when Strahan took him down.
The ball was snapped from the 44 yard line on the next play, it was just a bad spot
Your second red line over the front of the ball seems to be off which may be due to the camera angle. Do you know what the down and distance was for the next play or where the ball was spotted? Based on the graphic it was 3rd and 3 on the play. Was it 4th and 3 on the next play or did the fox scorebug say 4th and 2?
I suspect you'd have to find a complete version of that game on TH-cam to see for sure. Accoring to the PFR play by play summar, it's listed as Stoerner getting sacked by Strahan for a gain of yards. The play begins at the 44 and the next play begins at the 44 as well.
Where exactly was the ball spotted for the next snap?
Exactly on the 44 yard line, it was a bad spot
Stat changes made after decades also happened in MLB. In a famous case, Mickey Mantle was discredited an RBI over 30 years after the game in question, therefore giving Jim Gentile a tie for AL leader in RBIs in 1961.
If that was the only footage we have I'd presume nothing would happen because many people might claim it's too close to tell. Even with the line you juxtaposed, it may not be entirely accurate based on where the camera is, and the angle it's at.
However I bet anything the NFL has footage of other angles of that play, and when they see this video, they'll lock them up forever.
Also there was Ernie Shore’s relief appearance in relief of Babe Ruth that was considered a perfect game until 1968 or so.
@@fortynights1513 1990, actually.
after 1990, they changed the rule so that you had to go 9 innings for a no hitter, plus they did the thing you mentioned and shore got credit for a combo no hitter and set another new record.
in 1988, neil allen of the yankees came into a game with no out, 1 on in the top of the first inning.
he then finished the game without giving up a run, was credited with a shutout, but not a complete game, the first in mlb history.
when they changed the ernie shore thing, it meant shore was the first to do it, 72 years earlier.
Any chance on doing a video on Bubba Baker's 1978 season where he got 23 sacks?
The only sack that Strahan is interested in getting now is Desmond is Amazing little sack!
Ok, that was pretty cool. Your red line was off, but he clearly gained half a yard.
I am a broncos fan since I was 5. And I am from Massachusetts and the patriots are fans drive me up the wall
Were was the ball spotting after the play
Never mind
Yinzer Nation has entered the chat.
I wonder how the NFL will respond to this? Steelers fans are going to go crazy if the record switch’s from Stratham to Watt.
Then should we go back and check the plays on all of these top sack players? Should we make the unofficial records official?
I have no problem just saying Al Baker is the record holder
@@OfficialJaguarGator9 As a Lions fan I would approve lol
I’m 100000% sure the NFL will just ignore this. Because of course as we all know feelings are more important than facts
What I like to do is ask NPC sheep if two people's feelings disagree with each other, then which person's feelings are fact, and watch their minds literally shut down. It's fun 😊
That’s it. I’m getting in my time machine to have them fix this immediately.
Edit: Never mind. I got the NFL to correct the record and it led to nuclear apocalypse in 2018 so I set things back. Stupid Butterfly Effect!
No, it should actually belong to Harvey Martin, w 23 in 1977. They didnt keep up w it as they do now, however.
It was found that he had 20.
I'm guessing the extra three came from the postseason, remember Deacon Jones counted some of his sacks from there and Pro Bowls as well.
We all know Deacon Jones is the all time sack leader.
We just don’t say it.
But it’s universally understood.
When Jared Allen had 22 sacks, during the season against the Packers, Rodgers took a bad snap and before he could do anything besides take a step, was tackled by Allen but it in the stat book it was recorded as only a tackle because it was an aborted play which is nonsense. Jared Allen is the rightful owner at 23 sacks.
EVERYTHING I knew about the sack record is wrong? Oh my, and I thought I maybe had a thing or two right. I'd say Deacon Jones is the true sack man, but why did it take the NFL so long to make sacks an official stat (resistance to change, I guess)? Good thing for Lawrence Taylor being fit for football and attacking opponents in a blind rage .
Favre will sell out for a free pizza
Especially if you rip that pizza away from someone less fortunate!
Two thing: 1) a Stat guideline is NOT rule book. It’s something to help the stats guys make decisions, 2) It doesn’t matter what you think, because in reality you are actually wrong. Because your INTERPRETATION of the exact moment a player’s knee hits the ground isn’t necessarily accurate because of timing, camera angle, and in this case need for a controversy to talk about. It was in fact ruled a no gain therefore it is a sack and will remain so. Also if you look hard enough you will likely find T.J. Watt had one or two that were not legitimate as well.
Can you elaborate regarding T.J. Watt's sacks?
@@iamhungey12345 I have nothing specific. However if you were to look at every play where he got a sack you will likely find one very similar to this one. As it is very common in football.
@@matthewrosenthal753 Indeed.
Nah you’re tripping. You can see clearly the line of scrimmage is at the 44 yard line and he goes down at the 44 he never extends the ball so why would it be a gain? Its not.
This whole argument would be mute if there was no strike in '87. Reggie White had 21 sacks in 12 games. Miss 4 games and didn't play any of the scab games. I'll go out on a limb and assume he would have gotten more than 1.5 sacks in those 4 games he missed!
*moot
Eagles fans and their 1 super bowl always trying to stay relevant 🤣🤡
@@randyw.4628 Was he wrong though?
*Mute
Even though it’s technically a sack, the sack that Favre gave Strahan is one of the most chicken 💩 things I’ve ever seen in football. TJ is the rightful king. And he did it in less games than Strahan.
Mr 3000 but this time is Mr 22.5
Ironically I saw that game in San Diego on XETV 6 and thought nothing about the play
Oh how I miss Fox 6 San Diego.
@runrafarunthebestintheworld That was my go to channel when I lived in Chula Vista.
Next to KUSI
@@RetroJR3379 yep now Kusi is owned by Nextstar and Jim Patton who was on Fox 6 recently retired on abc 10.
Favre took a fall Number of games played in a season keeps changing so should the bar on seasonal records. Interesting proof, smoking gun. NFL will turn its head.
You take away this one and the Farve one that was clearly a run and Micheal should only have 20. So then you add Watt's that was taken away, also the half sack was said should of been a solo sack, and Watt would have 24. He would be well above everyone in first place.
Just give Al Baker the record and be done with it. No stats have to be changed.
Not so sure. Deacon Jones kept stats from the 60s and said he had as many as 26 in a season for the Rams
@@andrewpadaetz5549 It's also said that he included sacks from pro bowl in some of the same seasons as well.
Even if the line was drawn 100%, you're not accounting for parallax. The angle makes it look like he was closer to the line than he actually was. Unless you have a view looking directly along that line, this really isn't accurate. The same way you see a player look like they scored from the normal angle, but that goal line cam shows they're short. It's all perspective.
Yeah…but even the ref at the line of scrimmage acknowledged the forward progress.
Thats true just ask Stan Ross LOL
It's probably not a sack, BUT
You shouldn't attempt to make a parallel red line to the unofficial (computer generated, not in real life) first down marker that is three yards away.
Make your red line parallel to the 45-yard line that is less than two yards away and an actual line. Your line is clearly not parallel. That's in part because of the camera angle compared to the field's angle.
Hey I know you do content on football. But would you at least check into NASCAR and see if you can create videos about the interesting obscure stories and broadcasting blunders mainly committed by FOX.
Ooh that’d be interesting!
@@OfficialJaguarGator9 I could even send you NASCAR TH-camrs, driver/crew chief podcasters and websites to get more in depth. You’re so knowledgeable about football and would love to see you touch on my other favorite sport.
Unfortunately you're conveniently ignoring that the next snap took place in the same spot on the 44 yard line, it was just a bad spot by the officials, making the sack statistically correct
Do you have proof? If not, shut up.
@@nickbrennan8979literally just search Cowboys Giants 2001 week 8 1st half, it's right there
@@nickbrennan8979 You sound more defensive than the 1990 Giants.
Oh, jg9’s stirred up a hornet 🐝 nest with that video-that of the Steelers and the NFL-I don’t know what will happen-but jg9’s explanation that he has no agenda against the NFL is credible-and I accept that! However, tell that to the people who watched it! 😮😮😮😮😮
For balance he should consider doing a video about a sack that was taken from Strahan in the early season game against the Redskins where the refs ruled that the QB made an incomplete pass when the replay shows that the guy's knee was down before throwing the ball. At the time it wasn't a big deal and the Giants were winning the game so Fassel didn't challenge it.
You could probably do this to just about every record or even games with this same exact theory. Ball spotting is not always exact.
Oooo ya... dont step on the towel ull get bad luck, last year a browns player wiped his butt...then they got riddled with injuries
Trevor made slight fun of it and the jags were awful fir the rest of that season after that game
So just...dont do it
If the Steelers wants to avoid wasting Watt's career, they should get all their scheduled opponents defacing the towel.
That way a title is guaranteed.
@iamhungey12345 it would make our lives much easier...but the curse is real
Tj watt the official holder get the ceremony
Why won't they change it? Three words, New York Bias. That is the reason why a closer in the MLB is the only 100% voted player in the hall of fame. That is like a kicker being voted the best NFL player of all time.
On paper its either Strahan or watt.in reality its deacon jones
Give it back to Reggie white.
Man, this channel is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for content ideas. All these "strictly football" TH-cam channels Getty increasingly desperate for content after football season ends, but this channel hit the wall earlier than most. 😂 Yawwwn😴💤
Did it make you feel good to type this?
You're absolutely stupid for making this comment.
@@randyw.4628 No, but the fact that it must've bothered you makes it all worthwhile. It'll be even better when you respond again....
Man the fact this video bothered you is even more funny. 😅
@@nickbrennan8979 Not that you're any better.
He didnt gain a yard.. It was still short so its at the 44