Another test for stress relief is to see if the spoke tension has dropped after stress relieving. This is an indicator that it may in fact not have been adequately stress relieved. Note that it takes more stress relieving cycles with J bend spokes to reach a point of zero tension drop than it does with straight pull.
@@2wagondragon thanks a lot for watching and commenting wagondragon, appreciate it! Some of my other carbon wheel reviews have J bend spokes and I use the same technique shown in all my reviews. If spokes change tension enough to show on a tensionometer, the wheel will go out of true or round. So visually checking is just as good as checking with the tool. Either one will show the issue. It’s faster and easier to check visually and had I measured each spoke a second time it would have made this long video even longer ;-)
I've been interested in wheel building for years and bought a book called "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt a long time ago but never got round to putting it to use. Your videos are a Masterclass in wheel-building and checking, you show it for the art form it is and your knowledge and passion for the wheel is amazing, I just have to acknowledge that and that you are my go to channel for all things wheel. Thanks Jim, for the priceless knowledge and wisdom you share, you are very much appreciated, all the very best mate from London, England.
@@11ZEPHYR67 thank you for watching Zephyr and for the wonderful comment. Jobst Brandt was a friend and his book is still the best on the topic. There’s a wonderful biography on his cycling life that you might be able to find online or at some bike shops - it’s a great read with fantastic cycling photos if you can find a copy. I’m so happy to hear you’re enjoying my videos, thank you for watching and please let me know if you have any questions as you’re building wheels. Cheers and happy lacing and truing!
I recently balanced the spoke tension on a new wheelset. It is incredible what can be achieved with modern rims, these are coming out perfect from the mold.
@@Felintrepid Yes! It is amazing how perfectly true and round these best carbon rims are - it’s so satisfying building them up too! Thanks a lot for watching and the awesome comment!
@@thedownunderverse it’s made by Lún Performance, a manufacturer of many of the Chinese carbon rims, wheels. In the description I have a link to a great factory tour. I think you’ll enjoy it. It’s high tech and fascinating. Thanks!
Thanks for watching and the great question downunderverse! Yes it is but to explain fully, you usually only have to press the zero function on the tool once or twice per wheel. Once zero’d it wants to start at zero. But with bladed spokes you have to move the tool to find the flattest most consistent surface for the tool to show zero before you measure. To do that you move the tool around the spoke. That adds time and I trimmed that out of the video so the tension checking step wouldn’t be too long to watch. On round spokes you don’t need to do it - unless they’re not really round. FYI: somehow there’s a link in your comment so YT might remove it. Hope you see this reply before that happens. Thanks again.
I've never had bladed spokes and at 66 years old don't see any need for it. But if someone had bladed spokes do they shift over time so that they would need to be periodically checked and adjusted?
Thanks for watching and the question. They shouldn’t shift unless they loosen significantly. And on quality wheels the spokes stay tight because they’re set to the optimum tension. Also many are built with different types of thread adhesives to prevent loosening. Hope this is helpful.
Jim, any comments regarding radial spoke pattern on rear wheel disk side. I have three disk wheels, FFWD 24 spoke 16/8, Fulcrum 24 spoke 16/8, Bontrager 32 spoke 16/16 and all use cross spoke patterns on both sides front and back. Conventional design wisdom is cross pattern for disk side. Any concerns?
@@jonve1368 thanks a lot for watching and for the excellent question, jonve. I don’t know if you saw it but I actually reviewed Elite Wheels in another video here: th-cam.com/video/OlcpWDKIU54/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QFDUSG0c2Hiw8IPI Those wheels like these Magene’s have carbon spokes and on the Elite’s the front disc wheel has radial lacing - not rear radial lacing. The reason I mention the Elites is because I have ridden a ton on those wheels and really hard. I raced the Sea Otter gravel race on them. That was a brutally rough course, tons of holes, rocks, roots, dropoffs at speed so you couldn’t avoid bashing the wheels and slamming on the brakes. I also crashed multiple times trying to keep ahead the guys behind on the narrow fast singletrack descents. I’ve also ridden 1000s of miles on other gravel routes. In all that I haven’t had any issues with the front wheel with the radial spoking. I know it’s not the rear wheel and there’s more forces on the rear wheel with the drive of the cassette. But, as you know it’s the front wheel that does more of the braking work. So I do think that it’s an excellent test of the radial lacing and how it works. Now the common thing with the Elite’s and the Magene’s are the carbon spokes. These are said to be about 1/3 stronger than steel spokes. On the Magene’s they say that they optimized their hubs to reinforce the spokes at the hub. If you look closely you’ll also see that there are what appear to be nipples on the hub ends of the spokes - like you may have seen on Shimano wheels, which has made some with double nipples. I can’t confirm but I believe that Magene’s engineers believe that the radial lacing does a better job of equalizing the overall spoke tension balance in the wheel adding strength and on top of that the carbon spokes are so much stiffer than steel that they’ll be less affected by the braking force or driving force. That’s just my theory. The proof will be in the riding. But my Elite front wheel has been so impressive taking a beating on gravel, I think there’s nothing I can do on the road that will be as hard on the wheels or cause any problems. Now, a great test would be a more powerful, heavier, sprinter type rider. I’m a 155 lb climber basically. A big guy like that could stomp on the wheels launching a sprint and maybe feel wind-up or some sensation of hesitation, but I would never be able to feel that. I do know the wheels were approved by the UCI which means maybe they’ll be ridden by riders like this. But I don’t know any pros riding them. I hope these thoughts are helpful. Thanks again for watching and the great comment.
Another test for stress relief is to see if the spoke tension has dropped after stress relieving. This is an indicator that it may in fact not have been adequately stress relieved.
Note that it takes more stress relieving cycles with J bend spokes to reach a point of zero tension drop than it does with straight pull.
@@2wagondragon thanks a lot for watching and commenting wagondragon, appreciate it! Some of my other carbon wheel reviews have J bend spokes and I use the same technique shown in all my reviews. If spokes change tension enough to show on a tensionometer, the wheel will go out of true or round. So visually checking is just as good as checking with the tool. Either one will show the issue. It’s faster and easier to check visually and had I measured each spoke a second time it would have made this long video even longer ;-)
Thank you. 💯
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching and the nice comment, appreciate it🙏
Absolutely love this, this is a wheel review I want to see, instead of "yea I rode it and it feels gooooooood man, stiff, fast.. blabla" :)
@@FliskerX thanks so much FliskerX, really appreciate you watching and leaving this great comment, so glad you found my video helpful. Thank you!
I've been interested in wheel building for years and bought a book called "The Bicycle Wheel" by Jobst Brandt a long time ago but never got round to putting it to use.
Your videos are a Masterclass in wheel-building and checking, you show it for the art form it is and your knowledge and passion for the wheel is amazing, I just have to acknowledge that and that you are my go to channel for all things wheel.
Thanks Jim, for the priceless knowledge and wisdom you share, you are very much appreciated, all the very best mate from London, England.
@@11ZEPHYR67 thank you for watching Zephyr and for the wonderful comment. Jobst Brandt was a friend and his book is still the best on the topic. There’s a wonderful biography on his cycling life that you might be able to find online or at some bike shops - it’s a great read with fantastic cycling photos if you can find a copy. I’m so happy to hear you’re enjoying my videos, thank you for watching and please let me know if you have any questions as you’re building wheels. Cheers and happy lacing and truing!
@@JimLangley1 Thanks Jim, much appreciated, I'll see if I can find a copy.
All the best Jim! (Tony)
@@11ZEPHYR67 hi Tony! I remember where I got the book! Here’s the link: www.isolapress.com/shop/jobst-brandt Cheers and thanks again!
@@JimLangley1 Good man Jim, thanks very much, you're a diamond, all the very best to you mate, keep up the excellent work!!
I recently balanced the spoke tension on a new wheelset. It is incredible what can be achieved with modern rims, these are coming out perfect from the mold.
@@Felintrepid Yes! It is amazing how perfectly true and round these best carbon rims are - it’s so satisfying building them up too! Thanks a lot for watching and the awesome comment!
Who manufactured that rim?
@@thedownunderverse it’s made by Lún Performance, a manufacturer of many of the Chinese carbon rims, wheels. In the description I have a link to a great factory tour. I think you’ll enjoy it. It’s high tech and fascinating. Thanks!
I have these on my shortlist thank you so much for the review!
@@valiantabello you’re most welcome! Thank you for watching and the nice comment, appreciate it!
Is the brief video cut away / lapse, in between each measurement taken with the Tensiometer, because you’re zeroing the tool each time?
Thanks for watching and the great question downunderverse! Yes it is but to explain fully, you usually only have to press the zero function on the tool once or twice per wheel. Once zero’d it wants to start at zero. But with bladed spokes you have to move the tool to find the flattest most consistent surface for the tool to show zero before you measure. To do that you move the tool around the spoke. That adds time and I trimmed that out of the video so the tension checking step wouldn’t be too long to watch. On round spokes you don’t need to do it - unless they’re not really round. FYI: somehow there’s a link in your comment so YT might remove it. Hope you see this reply before that happens. Thanks again.
I've never had bladed spokes and at 66 years old don't see any need for it. But if someone had bladed spokes do they shift over time so that they would need to be periodically checked and adjusted?
Thanks for watching and the question. They shouldn’t shift unless they loosen significantly. And on quality wheels the spokes stay tight because they’re set to the optimum tension. Also many are built with different types of thread adhesives to prevent loosening. Hope this is helpful.
Jim, any comments regarding radial spoke pattern on rear wheel disk side. I have three disk wheels, FFWD 24 spoke 16/8, Fulcrum 24 spoke 16/8, Bontrager 32 spoke 16/16 and all use cross spoke patterns on both sides front and back. Conventional design wisdom is cross pattern for disk side. Any concerns?
@@jonve1368 thanks a lot for watching and for the excellent question, jonve. I don’t know if you saw it but I actually reviewed Elite Wheels in another video here: th-cam.com/video/OlcpWDKIU54/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QFDUSG0c2Hiw8IPI Those wheels like these Magene’s have carbon spokes and on the Elite’s the front disc wheel has radial lacing - not rear radial lacing.
The reason I mention the Elites is because I have ridden a ton on those wheels and really hard. I raced the Sea Otter gravel race on them. That was a brutally rough course, tons of holes, rocks, roots, dropoffs at speed so you couldn’t avoid bashing the wheels and slamming on the brakes. I also crashed multiple times trying to keep ahead the guys behind on the narrow fast singletrack descents. I’ve also ridden 1000s of miles on other gravel routes. In all that I haven’t had any issues with the front wheel with the radial spoking. I know it’s not the rear wheel and there’s more forces on the rear wheel with the drive of the cassette. But, as you know it’s the front wheel that does more of the braking work. So I do think that it’s an excellent test of the radial lacing and how it works.
Now the common thing with the Elite’s and the Magene’s are the carbon spokes. These are said to be about 1/3 stronger than steel spokes. On the Magene’s they say that they optimized their hubs to reinforce the spokes at the hub. If you look closely you’ll also see that there are what appear to be nipples on the hub ends of the spokes - like you may have seen on Shimano wheels, which has made some with double nipples.
I can’t confirm but I believe that Magene’s engineers believe that the radial lacing does a better job of equalizing the overall spoke tension balance in the wheel adding strength and on top of that the carbon spokes are so much stiffer than steel that they’ll be less affected by the braking force or driving force. That’s just my theory. The proof will be in the riding. But my Elite front wheel has been so impressive taking a beating on gravel, I think there’s nothing I can do on the road that will be as hard on the wheels or cause any problems.
Now, a great test would be a more powerful, heavier, sprinter type rider. I’m a 155 lb climber basically. A big guy like that could stomp on the wheels launching a sprint and maybe feel wind-up or some sensation of hesitation, but I would never be able to feel that.
I do know the wheels were approved by the UCI which means maybe they’ll be ridden by riders like this. But I don’t know any pros riding them.
I hope these thoughts are helpful. Thanks again for watching and the great comment.
Radial lacing on disk side. Dentists and trauma surgeons need to live off something.
@@r2r2r2o you’re not appreciating the components and construction of these wheels. Please see my reply to the viewer named jonve