You won't have spark with this setup because there is not path for electricity to go. The coil and housing don't have any continuity, so no current can flow through the sparkplug. Getting the coil bracket and the housing to share continuity with a ground strap or similar would probably help. Also, the timing with a flywheel/coil setup lile that is determined by where the coil sits relative to where the magnet passes by in crank rotation, which is why cranks and flywheels of course. You'll probably need a custom flywheel or digitally controlled spark and a car coil to get the timing correct. Overall, great first attempt! I'm sure it's been an incredible learning experience, and I'd love to see a follow-up!
Timing can be changed by rotating the flywheel on the axis. Testing the timing with a light or LED in a dry run, probably would help to prevent damage to the motor due to bad timing
Get some springs in there to push the vanes out. Use a cordless drill to start it. Consider applying something similar to rotary apex seal material to the end of the vanes if possible. Maybe something spray on is available. I believe you can get it with some refinement. Don’t give up!
@@axeman2638. As was pointed out , ALL engines are subject to uneven heating . You saw that part , right ? Basically , all engine designs are flawed in some way . Compromises everywhere . But perseverance has got them working well .
“I never lose. I either win or learn” Nelson Mandela. So you just learn a lot in this video. For the spring maybe build some spring in Z shape, with the top of Z touching the rotor, and the bottom touching the vane. Maybe also the use of some lubricant ?
Successful engineering of combustion engines requires tons of experience, and much better setups to rapidly prototype, test and evaluate different parts and combinations. Most of all, it takes a very large amount time. Relying on online manufacturing services to make parts you don't even have the tools to modify isn't going to work. Whether you decide to do more engineering on this channel or just get this thing running, I'm very excited to see what's coming next.
Something that may help outside of what you've already mentioned is to add an equal diplacement blower running at the same speed, probably gear to the output shaft. Similar to a detroit diesel 2 stroke, it should help fill the cylinder and evacuate the exhaust rather than relying entirely on what the open throttle body can pull. With this engine design, you could basically just use the same thing with a different port layout.
I really appreciate your attempt in building an own engine! I know from own experience how frustrating some projects can be. Just keep on working when you feel to 👍. What comes to my mind as a small and quick enhancement. You could use molykote (molybdenium grease) to grease the vanes. This should prevent them from getting stuck and allow for a short time operation of the engine.
I think your closer than it feels, Oil up the internals of the chamber it will help seal the veins,carbs suck pipe propane into it, implement electronic ignition so you can dump the flywheels,. your chalage will be sealing the sides of the chamber. I'd be tempted to attach it to a dc motor or drill and run it up to a higher rpm to try and get some dynamic compression. It should make some noise at the least!
Brave new world. Great job showing how innovative and novel new designs will easily and cheaply be developed with CAD, 3D printing and CNC machining techniques. "OK Google. Let's design and print a new engine..."
This video was fantastic! Extremely thought-provoking for someone who is quite mechanically minded, such as I am. I already have a couple of ideas how to counteract the side thrust on the veins during the combustion process. One of which would work at all RPMs and another would vary in effectiveness between different RPMs. But I’m gonna be studying this for sure as this is insanely interesting!
Hell of a first attempt. Most people would never have gotten this far, let alone be disappointed in themselves for not thinking of the X amount of permutations. Great video, best wishes.
I see the air gap between coil and magnet are little bit far from eachother. Try getting it closer to improve the spark. Or else try using gy6 dc cdi for a better spark.
Man, 1 out of 10 is a start! You do realise how much it sets d4a up in content value. Keep it up, it's a reeeeal deeeal. Looking forward to more "vane not in vain" series. Have a good one.
Ok so first I want to congratulate you on getting this far, and obviously all of the problems are of clear after the fact, but I'll try to enumerate them as I see them. 1. The coil will make one spark per revolution, you need 6. But actually a constant spark SHOULD be fine. You can get a (more or less) constant spark using the igniter coil for an oil burner. This will destroy the sparkplug over time, but it will give you enough heat to burn whatever is in the cylinder. BE CAREFUL, FURNACE IGNITERS CAN KILL YOU. 2. That flywheel is insanely oversized. It's meant for a 8:1 compression one compression per cycle, your engine is probably around 2:1 compression, 6 compressions per cycle. The rotary drum is probably enough flywheel so you can discard the entire flywheel assembly. 3. Trying to get a newly designed engine started with a pull cord is assuming you're going to hit a hole in one on your first try. You should attach a variable speed electric motor to the apparatus so that you can bring it up to operating speed, THEN play with the carburetor and try to get fire. First try to get non-zero energy output, then try to get enough energy output that you can power off the motor while it continues running. Only after you have all of this working flawlessly do you start thinking about starting without first running it up to optimal rotation speed. 4. Instinctively, I think the optimal speed for this engine is probably somewhere around 3000-5000 RPMs. Technically speaking, you want the highest RPM your hardware can tolerate, but over 5000 I think the premature wear starts to become so rapid that it will compromise your experimentation. You need centrifugal force to hold the veins against the housing, and you need high speed so that the compression action out-runs the leakage. At low speed, the air/fuel will all leak past the veins and your compression ratio will be essentially 0. The furnace igniter will help a lot because it will make a hot enough spark to light fuel even with very little compression, but if there's no compression, even lighting the fuel will not create any propulsive force. In short, I think you're really close.
For the reccord, i watched fully (and loved the preview video) but seeing it now real pieces i now understand why it will never catch up. (Valve catching ports) Thank for having build it and sharing 🎉❤
I'm happy to see you trying to build an engine its humbling what it takes to make a reliable mechanism. It would be great if this channel became about building engines!
Makes you take for granted the engine engineers that make these engines work. But dont give up this was amazing work. Maybe you could use those rotary engine springs they use on their rings for some tension to help push the vanes out.
Miles better than anything I could do. One change though. I'd use an electric drill to power the start up. Otherwise, a fantastic first attempt. I used to be a research scientist so I know how much of a wake up call first attempts can be. It's great that you are not scared to show your failures. I'm glad nobody ever filmed me. Keep up the excellent work and better luck next time.
Thank You for Revisiting this . Well actually MUCH more than simple Revisiting . Excellent First Prototype . It showed up some of the Engineering hurdles . I feel Certain that this type of Simple Engine CAN work .
This stuff is difficult, man. I really admire the efforts, and look forward to seeing stuff develop. Some of the channels I'm subbed to aren't necessarily insta-clicks when they upload - nothing wrong with that, just sometimes a video might not appeal to me. But this one is a I-must-watch-all-the-content-without-exception kind of channel, and seeing you go from talking about engines to building one from scratch is one of the reasons. As an aside, I've been messing with designs for a 1/8th or 1/6th scale model V8 engine for years, and there is so much to think about. How I make the block is pivotal in deciding things like oil galleries and the water jacket. I hadn't considered 3D printing as an option, but it would actually solve a whole bunch of design challenges.
Love watching projects like this to see how they turn out! Best of luck with the next attempt. I'm kind of glad it didn't start as if it had, I think you may have ended up with the pull cord whipping around at high speed. For the next attempt I'd recommend using a drill as a starter motor.
Great video! The only thing I can suggest is to drill some cavities in the veins and rotor so a little spring can be put inside pushing the veins outside, Although it's more easy to say than to do at that size.
I appreciate your hard work however i note the following, luckily the engine didnt start, there was a risk of the pull cord to be twisted on the rotor as the string is too long, try using a cordless drill from behind as a starter, the spark cannot happen unless the gap between the coil and magnet is around a paper thickness. The magnet flywheel has to be 100% aligned as any offset will shatter the engine to pieces. I think you will succeed, try fitting leaf springs under the vanes so that they're pushed up. Don't give up, you have already done the hard work, as for leaf springs from an old clock spring or something, you can have cut outs on the vanes and slide the spring inside. Hope this helps, the road to success is paved with many failures and experiences.
Great attempt! Even it failed (for now) you learned from all mistakes and can only make it better. One thing you did not mention in your video that you checked is the axial clearance between the rotor body and the plastic end cover you used. Anyhow, excessive clearance there will allow leakage between the individual chambers. This could also lead it to backfire on you if the alcohol in the next chamber would ignite simultaneously with the one with the spark plug and work its way back to the carb. Most of the air vane motors i had open have a spring behind each vane, sometimes coil springs, sometimes a wave style spring but it seems your project is going to need a spring as well to ensure the vanes come out. Check out some vane motor repair kits of the same size which might include some wave spring for you to try. Don't give up yet. Once you get it working you can go see your doctor for some prescription medication to get rid of the "engine making bug" . Love your channel and keep em coming!
Maybe adding some kind of lubricant in the intake will help with keeping the vanes moving? As well as springs? And then in order to make your life easier, you could have some kind of ridge on the inside of the vanes to keep them from ejecting while you're trying to insert the rotating vane assembly into the engine. The ridges would have to hold the vanes further than the maximum they would extend in the engine, but that wouldn't be hard
This was cool, I'm learning what you're learning. Who'd have thought that the vanes would stick because of moisture? I guess that makes sense but I'd never have thought of it.
The good part about steel springs: When designed correctly the only thing that really could destroy them would be corrosion.... if you have corrosion in your combustion chamber than you have some serious problems already. But piezo actuators: Still how would those supposedly work? If the veins can freely move to the point of touching the housing - how would actuators than retract them? if the veins can move freely then there is absolutely nothing that can reduce the contact pressure. Of course controlling their movement with camshafts, gears or other methods would be possible, but in your original video it really does sound like you are expecting to use piezo actuators to control the full extension of the veins. This can be used in turbines as the rotor blades only need to hold a constant diameter and not follow a changing complex curve. Genuinely interested in how you envisioned that to work.
This project is very impressive and good to see that you are so enthusiastic! However I would recommend not to use the lawnmover ignition coil since it fires ones in a rotation and I think it should do it more. Maybe you could use an electric ignition system for motorbikes which has a trigger sensor and use magnets to the proper number of ignitions. For the starting you might use a cordless driller. If you could start it on a higher rpm that would solve the stucked vane problem. I'm looking forward the next episode.
Great video and prototype ! Dont worry too much on not starting it on the first try. People underestimate how resiliant vanes can be, there are even raw material vane pumps , and they do last hours and hours! ( Sealing is the final boss in any case , as in all engines)
Great Project! Oil will help seal up all of your tolerances, and hopefully fill in the backlash on the shaft. Might need to look into polishing the bore to help the compression. Good Luck, Please keep it up.
You could try sealing the front bearing from the outside so air can't get in. That coil with magner sucks, so I would try with a battery for the start and then a sort of alternator or just run on battery. Maybe use gasoline instead of alcohol, could be better, and dry everything before putting the vains together again, hope I helped a bit :)
The vane lubrication seems to me as a potential problem similar to my 1ZZ Toyota engine: the same oil stays too near to the combustion for far too long. The early versions of the 1ZZ had a problem with oil channels through the piston, resulting low capacity of those channels. This meant that when you kept the engine is higher RPMs, the same oil stayed around the rings for far too long, which caused oil burning, which caused increased wear between the rings and the cylinder walls. However the rotary vane engine has almost NO oil flow around the vanes. So you´d need some ultra high temperature resistant oil to prevent oil burning, and increased wear between the vanes and their grooves. In fact, I´d say put some roller bearings into the grooves. But even that requires lubrication... This whole system just smells like a piston engine with no oil channels in the pistons...
Awesome video, so many thing we could all learn from series about making this novel engine please don't give up. Failure is so important to the discovery of new ways of approaching problems.
Those lawnmower coils need a fair few revs to get good spark. Perhaps a basic battery electronic ignition system will be easier to start and more tunable, and will put less load on the engine.
So you made one. Not a problem! the magneto just didn't have enough velocity. give it a shot with a high speed drill to see if that can start it. if not, it's time for a different ignition system.
If you try again; go with an external electric starter motor like those used for R/C airplane engines. We would stick them on the prop spinner to turn the engine over until it fired.
“Every great project is built on countless trials and learning experiences! Those who keep pushing forward are the ones who make it happen. Don’t worry about the setbacks; they’re just steps on the journey to success. Excited to see where this goes next!”
Keep up the great work! The spark, I think the flywheel had one magnet for one spark for each revolution? You need 6 sparks per revolution? Perhaps a continuous sparker would be better then you don't need to worry about timing. Vey cool video. It always amazes me how people can create things like this.
Great attempt, you should definitely build a second one or optimize the first. Seal the sides of the rotary at the bearings, redesign the flywheel with proper mounting options, new vanes with springs (maybe with additional seal rods?), change the ignition coil (maybe you could use a ignition distributor behind the flywheel where you can adjust the ignition timing), ... would love to see a second version :D Is it possible to use vanes that are made out of brass? would be a bit better regarding friction? The vanes itself get stuck with a bit of lubricant, so won´t they pinch itself when the engine is hot and the tolerances are too tight? Sorry for my bad english ;) greetings from germany!
good job, but for non stucking simetry u might need 2 opposite explosions at the same time ;).... I would try tilting vane attack angle a bit off 90, and less travel of vanes for start...satisfy those "engineers" and design air line from exhaust through the axis to push those vanes out :)
Try to start the engine with a electric motor. It will help for centrifuge force to put the vanes in place and the speed will also help for enough air flow ;) Good attempt ! From Québec/Saguenay
Greetings from Germany, absolutely nice Channel and thanks for the technical informations. So, my First notice is, you must build in a 1:6 Ratio between engine and spark because of the 6 ignitions per Rotation or build in 6 Magnets (5, one ist already build in). Second, maybe a spring Like in the wankel from Mazda, so, by Maximum Kompression it will start Push the flaps and the friction will goes from "stationary friction" to "moving friction" wich is lower and maybe the Rotation force will make the Rest.
Come on my friend!! Rome wasnt built in a day. This is great and i hope to see more attempts on this. Uso some springs or oil inside de vane housing , use a battery and a coil to the spark , anyting to gent that in motion !! Great job , if i only could ave access to tat kind of tools and supliers i keep trying. Greetings from argentina
The housing looks a bit rough, lowering compression. Maybe you can grind in the veins to the housing by using polishing paste and a drill. Also i think you should redo the thread by drilling it out and hammering in a fitting piece of brass or something. As theres not much torque it should hold fine and at least rotate correctly. Would love to see it do some combustions
Sadly mundane issues tends to get in the way when making novel prototypes. It's an intriguing concept, it "feels" like it should have potential to be better than reciprocating engines, but then again, there's usually some good reason, or reasons, novel concepts that feels like they have potential to be better aren't developed into products by big manufacturers. Sometimes the main reason seems to be that reaching the point where the novel technology is significantly better than what's already used requires too much R&D. It's easy to forget that new technologies don't just have to be slightly better than what's already out there when you start to develop, but they need to be able to offer some significant advantage over what's on the market when your new technology is ready to be mass produced and sold.
For a spring design, you could use the same thing that a Wankel engine uses for the Apex seals. It's a proven technology and it would probably do you pretty good.
You have no seal on the radial faces of the vanes and the rotor, so you will have no compression due to leakage. Your magnet coil should have 6 magnets to give a spark as each vane passes.
Brilliant video. People whodon't make errors don't do anything. Use a piece of curved spring steel beneath the vanes. May have to mill out some clearence. Stick rotor in dividing head to get accuracy.. I don't do CAD. It is the only thing I have never done. I have asked work to put me on a CAD course. They said yes.
The skill of inventing lies in observing the experiment without bias. The result is the result and by definition successful. If the inventor's definition of success differs from the result, either the inventor's bias needs to be adjusted or the experiment needs to be changed. Then try again.
3d printed metal is almost the same as cast metal anyway. They basically use a laser to melt powder together into the part. It's still molten metal hardened in a certain shape. Use a drill to start it. And put springs in. Btw is there a choke on the carburetor? Also is that carburetor even made to do alcohol? It has different viscosity from petrol so it might be an issue. Go order another one with spring slots weeeeeeee. Take your time with it. We use a cam with ours.
You should try changing the exhaust and intake positions a little because it looks like with the current positions you would burn your hand if you try to use the carburettor with your hand. I have some ideas how you could improve that engine but I would write those ideas in the comments of the next video If that's ok.
This was a great attempt ! And yes its easy to underestimate how hard it is to seal an engine like this!
Can you make this?
@@Worker225maybe 4 vane pneumatic like his wankel
trasparent resin printed housing?
Integza please refine this I had high hope
Integza/D4A collab would be awesome
New upload from D4A. Definitely a must watch.
Excellent video, and not being afraid to show something going wrong shows integrity. Keep on it!
You won't have spark with this setup because there is not path for electricity to go. The coil and housing don't have any continuity, so no current can flow through the sparkplug. Getting the coil bracket and the housing to share continuity with a ground strap or similar would probably help.
Also, the timing with a flywheel/coil setup lile that is determined by where the coil sits relative to where the magnet passes by in crank rotation, which is why cranks and flywheels of course. You'll probably need a custom flywheel or digitally controlled spark and a car coil to get the timing correct.
Overall, great first attempt! I'm sure it's been an incredible learning experience, and I'd love to see a follow-up!
There is a wire connecting the housing to the coil.
Timing can be changed by rotating the flywheel on the axis.
Testing the timing with a light or LED in a dry run, probably would help to prevent damage to the motor due to bad timing
Great first attempt! I can't wait to see future iterations. I hope this is the beginning of you making some of the more exotic engines you cover.
cringe pfp
Get some springs in there to push the vanes out. Use a cordless drill to start it. Consider applying something similar to rotary apex seal material to the end of the vanes if possible. Maybe something spray on is available.
I believe you can get it with some refinement. Don’t give up!
it's an inherently flawed design, just like the wankel rotary, all the same sealing and uneven heat distribution issues.
@@axeman2638maybe if you watch the video and listen to what he said you'd actually have something to argue against
@@axeman2638. As was pointed out , ALL engines are subject to uneven heating . You saw that part , right ?
Basically , all engine designs are flawed in some way . Compromises everywhere . But perseverance has got them working well .
Hell yeah, i wanna see this thing run, even if for a tiny moment. It seems like these issues arent that bad and can be solved. Dont give up!
“I never lose. I either win or learn” Nelson Mandela. So you just learn a lot in this video. For the spring maybe build some spring in Z shape, with the top of Z touching the rotor, and the bottom touching the vane. Maybe also the use of some lubricant ?
2 z shaped springs
Love your honesty and willingness to make a mess. Can't wait to see how this develops. Good job.
Successful engineering of combustion engines requires tons of experience, and much better setups to rapidly prototype, test and evaluate different parts and combinations. Most of all, it takes a very large amount time. Relying on online manufacturing services to make parts you don't even have the tools to modify isn't going to work. Whether you decide to do more engineering on this channel or just get this thing running, I'm very excited to see what's coming next.
Such patience and tolerance. Keep on going!
Something that may help outside of what you've already mentioned is to add an equal diplacement blower running at the same speed, probably gear to the output shaft. Similar to a detroit diesel 2 stroke, it should help fill the cylinder and evacuate the exhaust rather than relying entirely on what the open throttle body can pull.
With this engine design, you could basically just use the same thing with a different port layout.
I really appreciate your attempt in building an own engine! I know from own experience how frustrating some projects can be. Just keep on working when you feel to 👍.
What comes to my mind as a small and quick enhancement. You could use molykote (molybdenium grease) to grease the vanes. This should prevent them from getting stuck and allow for a short time operation of the engine.
Please keep this attempts. It will enrich your channel and extend the community. No matter if there is some failure along the way.
"Watching the video before commenting is asking too much..."
I think your closer than it feels, Oil up the internals of the chamber it will help seal the veins,carbs suck pipe propane into it, implement electronic ignition so you can dump the flywheels,. your chalage will be sealing the sides of the chamber. I'd be tempted to attach it to a dc motor or drill and run it up to a higher rpm to try and get some dynamic compression. It should make some noise at the least!
Brave new world. Great job showing how innovative and novel new designs will easily and cheaply be developed with CAD, 3D printing and CNC machining techniques. "OK Google. Let's design and print a new engine..."
I've been waiting for this. Kinda got the feeling that you really like these engines from your last video. Really interested to hear how it sounds...
This video was fantastic! Extremely thought-provoking for someone who is quite mechanically minded, such as I am. I already have a couple of ideas how to counteract the side thrust on the veins during the combustion process. One of which would work at all RPMs and another would vary in effectiveness between different RPMs. But I’m gonna be studying this for sure as this is insanely interesting!
I hope you don't give up. I would love to see this project continue.
Hell of a first attempt. Most people would never have gotten this far, let alone be disappointed in themselves for not thinking of the X amount of permutations. Great video, best wishes.
SICK.
Don't get discouraged, this is cool shit
I see the air gap between coil and magnet are little bit far from eachother. Try getting it closer to improve the spark. Or else try using gy6 dc cdi for a better spark.
Man, 1 out of 10 is a start! You do realise how much it sets d4a up in content value. Keep it up, it's a reeeeal deeeal.
Looking forward to more "vane not in vain" series.
Have a good one.
Ok so first I want to congratulate you on getting this far, and obviously all of the problems are of clear after the fact, but I'll try to enumerate them as I see them.
1. The coil will make one spark per revolution, you need 6. But actually a constant spark SHOULD be fine. You can get a (more or less) constant spark using the igniter coil for an oil burner. This will destroy the sparkplug over time, but it will give you enough heat to burn whatever is in the cylinder. BE CAREFUL, FURNACE IGNITERS CAN KILL YOU.
2. That flywheel is insanely oversized. It's meant for a 8:1 compression one compression per cycle, your engine is probably around 2:1 compression, 6 compressions per cycle. The rotary drum is probably enough flywheel so you can discard the entire flywheel assembly.
3. Trying to get a newly designed engine started with a pull cord is assuming you're going to hit a hole in one on your first try. You should attach a variable speed electric motor to the apparatus so that you can bring it up to operating speed, THEN play with the carburetor and try to get fire. First try to get non-zero energy output, then try to get enough energy output that you can power off the motor while it continues running. Only after you have all of this working flawlessly do you start thinking about starting without first running it up to optimal rotation speed.
4. Instinctively, I think the optimal speed for this engine is probably somewhere around 3000-5000 RPMs. Technically speaking, you want the highest RPM your hardware can tolerate, but over 5000 I think the premature wear starts to become so rapid that it will compromise your experimentation. You need centrifugal force to hold the veins against the housing, and you need high speed so that the compression action out-runs the leakage. At low speed, the air/fuel will all leak past the veins and your compression ratio will be essentially 0. The furnace igniter will help a lot because it will make a hot enough spark to light fuel even with very little compression, but if there's no compression, even lighting the fuel will not create any propulsive force.
In short, I think you're really close.
You deserve way more views!
Lol the video is less than an hour old...
For the reccord, i watched fully (and loved the preview video) but seeing it now real pieces i now understand why it will never catch up. (Valve catching ports) Thank for having build it and sharing 🎉❤
I'm happy to see you trying to build an engine its humbling what it takes to make a reliable mechanism. It would be great if this channel became about building engines!
Looking forward to see it run!
Makes you take for granted the engine engineers that make these engines work. But dont give up this was amazing work. Maybe you could use those rotary engine springs they use on their rings for some tension to help push the vanes out.
the carburetor is on backwards and the coil gap is wrong it needs to be 10 - 15 thousands of an inch, good luck
Miles better than anything I could do. One change though. I'd use an electric drill to power the start up. Otherwise, a fantastic first attempt. I used to be a research scientist so I know how much of a wake up call first attempts can be. It's great that you are not scared to show your failures. I'm glad nobody ever filmed me. Keep up the excellent work and better luck next time.
I love the way D4A says buuUUuut.....
Great video, showing that stuff doesn't work by magic, it takes concerted effort and attention to detail
Thank You for Revisiting this . Well actually MUCH more than simple Revisiting . Excellent First Prototype . It showed up some of the Engineering hurdles .
I feel Certain that this type of Simple Engine CAN work .
Real world try! Everyone can relate to the frustration! Keep on, we love you!
This stuff is difficult, man. I really admire the efforts, and look forward to seeing stuff develop. Some of the channels I'm subbed to aren't necessarily insta-clicks when they upload - nothing wrong with that, just sometimes a video might not appeal to me. But this one is a I-must-watch-all-the-content-without-exception kind of channel, and seeing you go from talking about engines to building one from scratch is one of the reasons.
As an aside, I've been messing with designs for a 1/8th or 1/6th scale model V8 engine for years, and there is so much to think about. How I make the block is pivotal in deciding things like oil galleries and the water jacket. I hadn't considered 3D printing as an option, but it would actually solve a whole bunch of design challenges.
Love watching projects like this to see how they turn out! Best of luck with the next attempt. I'm kind of glad it didn't start as if it had, I think you may have ended up with the pull cord whipping around at high speed. For the next attempt I'd recommend using a drill as a starter motor.
Great video! The only thing I can suggest is to drill some cavities in the veins and rotor so a little spring can be put inside pushing the veins outside, Although it's more easy to say than to do at that size.
Yep, a drill with a sprag cupling.
Did the same with my lawn mower years ago... pull start ha ya no...
This is one of your greatest episodes, can’t wait to see how your engine improves and I hope you do build more novel engines!
I appreciate your hard work however i note the following, luckily the engine didnt start, there was a risk of the pull cord to be twisted on the rotor as the string is too long, try using a cordless drill from behind as a starter, the spark cannot happen unless the gap between the coil and magnet is around a paper thickness. The magnet flywheel has to be 100% aligned as any offset will shatter the engine to pieces. I think you will succeed, try fitting leaf springs under the vanes so that they're pushed up. Don't give up, you have already done the hard work, as for leaf springs from an old clock spring or something, you can have cut outs on the vanes and slide the spring inside. Hope this helps, the road to success is paved with many failures and experiences.
Great attempt! Even it failed (for now) you learned from all mistakes and can only make it better. One thing you did not mention in your video that you checked is the axial clearance between the rotor body and the plastic end cover you used. Anyhow, excessive clearance there will allow leakage between the individual chambers. This could also lead it to backfire on you if the alcohol in the next chamber would ignite simultaneously with the one with the spark plug and work its way back to the carb.
Most of the air vane motors i had open have a spring behind each vane, sometimes coil springs, sometimes a wave style spring but it seems your project is going to need a spring as well to ensure the vanes come out. Check out some vane motor repair kits of the same size which might include some wave spring for you to try. Don't give up yet. Once you get it working you can go see your doctor for some prescription medication to get rid of the "engine making bug" . Love your channel and keep em coming!
If I may suggest adding a strong magnet on outside of the housing to pull those vanes adding force aiding vanes to seal !
Maybe adding some kind of lubricant in the intake will help with keeping the vanes moving? As well as springs? And then in order to make your life easier, you could have some kind of ridge on the inside of the vanes to keep them from ejecting while you're trying to insert the rotating vane assembly into the engine. The ridges would have to hold the vanes further than the maximum they would extend in the engine, but that wouldn't be hard
This was cool, I'm learning what you're learning. Who'd have thought that the vanes would stick because of moisture? I guess that makes sense but I'd never have thought of it.
So cool! I hope we see this in cars & bikes in the next decade!
Amazing effort I hope to see part 2 soon.
The good part about steel springs: When designed correctly the only thing that really could destroy them would be corrosion.... if you have corrosion in your combustion chamber than you have some serious problems already.
But piezo actuators:
Still how would those supposedly work? If the veins can freely move to the point of touching the housing - how would actuators than retract them? if the veins can move freely then there is absolutely nothing that can reduce the contact pressure. Of course controlling their movement with camshafts, gears or other methods would be possible, but in your original video it really does sound like you are expecting to use piezo actuators to control the full extension of the veins. This can be used in turbines as the rotor blades only need to hold a constant diameter and not follow a changing complex curve.
Genuinely interested in how you envisioned that to work.
This project is very impressive and good to see that you are so enthusiastic! However I would recommend not to use the lawnmover ignition coil since it fires ones in a rotation and I think it should do it more. Maybe you could use an electric ignition system for motorbikes which has a trigger sensor and use magnets to the proper number of ignitions. For the starting you might use a cordless driller. If you could start it on a higher rpm that would solve the stucked vane problem. I'm looking forward the next episode.
Failure is the mother of learning. Repetition the mother of excellence.
Great video and prototype ! Dont worry too much on not starting it on the first try.
People underestimate how resiliant vanes can be, there are even raw material vane pumps , and they do last hours and hours!
( Sealing is the final boss in any case , as in all engines)
Great Project! Oil will help seal up all of your tolerances, and hopefully fill in the backlash on the shaft.
Might need to look into polishing the bore to help the compression.
Good Luck, Please keep it up.
You could try sealing the front bearing from the outside so air can't get in.
That coil with magner sucks, so I would try with a battery for the start and then a sort of alternator or just run on battery.
Maybe use gasoline instead of alcohol, could be better, and dry everything before putting the vains together again, hope I helped a bit :)
Making things is hard! Thanks for showing us the process, warts and all and keep up the good work.
The vane lubrication seems to me as a potential problem similar to my 1ZZ Toyota engine: the same oil stays too near to the combustion for far too long. The early versions of the 1ZZ had a problem with oil channels through the piston, resulting low capacity of those channels. This meant that when you kept the engine is higher RPMs, the same oil stayed around the rings for far too long, which caused oil burning, which caused increased wear between the rings and the cylinder walls.
However the rotary vane engine has almost NO oil flow around the vanes. So you´d need some ultra high temperature resistant oil to prevent oil burning, and increased wear between the vanes and their grooves. In fact, I´d say put some roller bearings into the grooves. But even that requires lubrication... This whole system just smells like a piston engine with no oil channels in the pistons...
Awesome video, so many thing we could all learn from series about making this novel engine please don't give up. Failure is so important to the discovery of new ways of approaching problems.
So close! Try again, no one said it would be easy. I want to try this my self to. Can't wait for attempt 2😮
I am intrigued. Keep going!
Hey, this was great, nothing epic was easy! KUDOS to your persistence!
Those lawnmower coils need a fair few revs to get good spark. Perhaps a basic battery electronic ignition system will be easier to start and more tunable, and will put less load on the engine.
What a great man one has to be to dare to show his failures to explain something to his audience! Way to go! Keep it up! And better luck next time!
Waiting for your next attempt 🎉
This is great!! Maybe a bit of 2stroke oil in the mix to prevent the parts to het stuck?
So you made one. Not a problem! the magneto just didn't have enough velocity. give it a shot with a high speed drill to see if that can start it. if not, it's time for a different ignition system.
If you try again; go with an external electric starter motor like those used for R/C airplane engines. We would stick them on the prop spinner to turn the engine over until it fired.
“Every great project is built on countless trials and learning experiences! Those who keep pushing forward are the ones who make it happen. Don’t worry about the setbacks; they’re just steps on the journey to success. Excited to see where this goes next!”
Keep up the great work! The spark, I think the flywheel had one magnet for one spark for each revolution? You need 6 sparks per revolution? Perhaps a continuous sparker would be better then you don't need to worry about timing. Vey cool video. It always amazes me how people can create things like this.
We're starting to send simple parts to JLC CNC at work. Pretty impressive quality and way less than Xometry.
Great attempt, you should definitely build a second one or optimize the first. Seal the sides of the rotary at the bearings, redesign the flywheel with proper mounting options, new vanes with springs (maybe with additional seal rods?), change the ignition coil (maybe you could use a ignition distributor behind the flywheel where you can adjust the ignition timing), ... would love to see a second version :D Is it possible to use vanes that are made out of brass? would be a bit better regarding friction? The vanes itself get stuck with a bit of lubricant, so won´t they pinch itself when the engine is hot and the tolerances are too tight? Sorry for my bad english ;) greetings from germany!
BABE WAKE UP NEW D4A VIDEO
good job, but for non stucking simetry u might need 2 opposite explosions at the same time ;).... I would try tilting vane attack angle a bit off 90, and less travel of vanes for start...satisfy those "engineers" and design air line from exhaust through the axis to push those vanes out :)
Try to start the engine with a electric motor. It will help for centrifuge force to put the vanes in place and the speed will also help for enough air flow ;) Good attempt !
From Québec/Saguenay
Greetings from Germany, absolutely nice Channel and thanks for the technical informations.
So, my First notice is, you must build in a 1:6 Ratio between engine and spark because of the 6 ignitions per Rotation or build in 6 Magnets (5, one ist already build in).
Second, maybe a spring Like in the wankel from Mazda, so, by Maximum Kompression it will start Push the flaps and the friction will goes from "stationary friction" to "moving friction" wich is lower and maybe the Rotation force will make the Rest.
I would try a briggs and stratton magneto system for the spark, great video btw!
Come on my friend!! Rome wasnt built in a day. This is great and i hope to see more attempts on this. Uso some springs or oil inside de vane housing , use a battery and a coil to the spark , anyting to gent that in motion !! Great job , if i only could ave access to tat kind of tools and supliers i keep trying. Greetings from argentina
The housing looks a bit rough, lowering compression.
Maybe you can grind in the veins to the housing by using polishing paste and a drill.
Also i think you should redo the thread by drilling it out and hammering in a fitting piece of brass or something. As theres not much torque it should hold fine and at least rotate correctly.
Would love to see it do some combustions
Some vane pumps have a spring which pushes and keeps the vanes outward.
Sadly mundane issues tends to get in the way when making novel prototypes. It's an intriguing concept, it "feels" like it should have potential to be better than reciprocating engines, but then again, there's usually some good reason, or reasons, novel concepts that feels like they have potential to be better aren't developed into products by big manufacturers. Sometimes the main reason seems to be that reaching the point where the novel technology is significantly better than what's already used requires too much R&D.
It's easy to forget that new technologies don't just have to be slightly better than what's already out there when you start to develop, but they need to be able to offer some significant advantage over what's on the market when your new technology is ready to be mass produced and sold.
I'm thoroughly impressed. I know it's a bit of a disappointment for you, but really you should be proud. It's a super cool attempt.
Hahaha I see this engine keeping you up at night in 25 years; you definitely got a bug. Best of luck was an enjoyable watch.
Many lessons learned, keep up the faith 👍
Please keep trying. I am interested in your idea of getting zero clearance by means of piezo-electric actuators
Just when i decided to rewatch older videos
This is awesome. I hope at some point you'll get a chance to review the DeltaHawk diesel as well.
For a spring design, you could use the same thing that a Wankel engine uses for the Apex seals. It's a proven technology and it would probably do you pretty good.
Way to go, dude. You learn more from failure than success, so take a break and attack it again.
You have no seal on the radial faces of the vanes and the rotor, so you will have no compression due to leakage. Your magnet coil should have 6 magnets to give a spark as each vane passes.
Thank you so much for sharing this, wish you all the best :)
You always know how to make a great video!
Brilliant video. People whodon't make errors don't do anything. Use a piece of curved spring steel beneath the vanes. May have to mill out some clearence. Stick rotor in dividing head to get accuracy.. I don't do CAD. It is the only thing I have never done. I have asked work to put me on a CAD course. They said yes.
It seems the angrier you got, the better your English became. Very few prototypes are perfect, but that's where the 90% perspiration happens. 😊Joe
I would imagine this engine could, perhaps, use some 2 stroke engine bearing seals and fuel+oil mixing maybe too.
I love the questions part of the video, where you clarify the obvious, they have no technical/mechanical sense i guess
Oh he was really COOKING GOOD
I do encourage you to keep trying!
The skill of inventing lies in observing the experiment without bias. The result is the result and by definition successful. If the inventor's definition of success differs from the result, either the inventor's bias needs to be adjusted or the experiment needs to be changed. Then try again.
Some ideas: Reed-switch/Hall sensor trigger with an electronic ignition coil? Dry lubricant like molybenum-sulfide of graphite for the vanes?
I wonder if a ceramic surface and ceramic vanes would do better from a wear standpoint. And they might handle the combustion heat better too.
3d printed metal is almost the same as cast metal anyway.
They basically use a laser to melt powder together into the part.
It's still molten metal hardened in a certain shape.
Use a drill to start it. And put springs in.
Btw is there a choke on the carburetor? Also is that carburetor even made to do alcohol? It has different viscosity from petrol so it might be an issue.
Go order another one with spring slots weeeeeeee.
Take your time with it. We use a cam with ours.
You should try changing the exhaust and intake positions a little because it looks like with the current positions you would burn your hand if you try to use the carburettor with your hand. I have some ideas how you could improve that engine but I would write those ideas in the comments of the next video If that's ok.
Seems like the questions have been asked mostly by the people who didn't watch the video.
Brilliant. Thank You x