The OUTRAGEOUS Costs Of Owning a Private Jet... (Can We Still Afford It?)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ย. 2024
- It's finally time we discuss the REAL cost of owning a private jet. These video breaks down our first service bill with our Cessna Citation 501SP from an owner's perspective. Avionics upgrades, engine overhauls, scheduled maintenance, inspections, taxes, etc... Can we still afford to keep it? We bought this plane sight unseen in cash and flew it home 1,800 miles. There was some service drama that kept this plane held up for 5 months, but it's finally back and ready to hit the skies.
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PLEASE NOTE: We are aviation enthusiasts. These videos are for entertainment purposes only. We are NOT qualified to give flying instruction. All of our videos, including this one, have been significantly edited down from the original full length raw footage. Many radio calls, checklist steps, and other procedures have been omitted to keep the videos a reasonable viewing length. Please speak to a CFI with any flying questions you may have.
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Trust me, DO NOT buy a cheap jet unless you know what you are getting into haha. I hope you enjoyed this real talk discussing the real numbers associated with our first "small" maintenance checkup. There are sooooo many other costs I didn't mention. Pilot salary, hangar rent, taxes, registration, landing fees, etc, etc... Subscribe for more jet videos!
yeh i often wound about ongoing costs .. need to make a million a week profit i think :)
just to make it worthy of owning, guess you can rent it out as a offset
Panel, yes absolutely upgrade.
Leather seats, no absolutely do NOT upgrade. That’s 30yr old ‘vintage’ leather now. Instead upgrade the amenities AROUND the seats. Nice modern wood paneling, custom ambient cabin lighting, upgraded electronics (audio/video), carpet. Upgrade everything around the seats but leave the seats as centerpieces like a nice classic barber chair in a modern barber shop you know?
Be glad it's just a Citation.. imagine getting slapped with some GIV bills! One thing to look at as the engines gain hours would be a williams conversion!
amazing, you really need big money, glass panel would be sensational
The smart thing to do at this point
Is sell it and get your money back while you still can. LoL 😂
A shop who holds you plane for 3 months, then tells you, “we can’t work on it” deserves to have their name in this video.
@@AnitaHannjobwHY? I worked at an FBO in college then as an engineer fir the Navy. A shop should know immediately if they do the work or not . Absolutely no reason for them to not notify the owner at the beginning that they can’t fit it in the schedule. Especially with time related issues. It’d be different if they took it in and there’s no part available but not knowing their own scheduling is ridiculous
Agree!
@@jimsteinway695 …..no
@@AnitaHannjobcurious what does he not know? Find one shop owner who would say it’s ok to let it sit for 3 months to tell you, “Oh we can’t get to it for another 3 months?” Lmao.
He’s inexperienced as well or he would have ask about this up front.
@@AnitaHannjobWhy you addressing him, and not the guy that made you look silly? Lmao! You comment on a lot of things, that you know. Little to nothing about! But comment like you do! Lmao Be humble, or get humbled!
Tremendous life experiences don’t have to be permanent lifestyles!
The two happiest days of an aircraft owner, the day he buys it and the day he sells it.
I was told the same about a boat. Was always told to never buy a boat, but be best friends with someone that owns one
@@westsparks6844I think the original quote was about a boat 😂
@@EpicAviation175 the one I've always heard is that if it flies, floats or f***s, you should rent it.
Same thing as a boat owner!
I can tell you from experience, the same stands true for a boat.
Jets definitely fall into the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" category.
All the rich guys I have met in my very long aviation life always ask what things cost. That's how they got to be rich. In fact a very important thing I learned is that when they ask you a question, they often already know the answer. They're trying to find out what you know. If JR had asked smart questions from smart people he wouldn't have made is biggest mistake.
@@boyracer3477keyword is "have" not want, rich people want to know the cost not that they have to know the cost, unlike someone on a budget or with a limited amount of money
This is the same reason, apparently, that Rolls Royce never publish the fuel consumption stats for their cars. 🙂
I loved this guy in “saved by the bell.”
That's not him... Could br family though...
Screech !
I kept wondering why I thought he looked so familiar. That's crazy how much he really looks like him. 😂
I was trying to remember where I saw him lol
Was looking for this comment
Honestly, that rvsm recertification price is more then double what we charge. Another thing, one of my customers rolls Cessna CJ's on inspections like hot cakes and turns them all within a couple weeks on average. Very skilled Cessna guys. If you're interested in flying to Toronto Canada for your next one, hit me up!
I'm considering buying, what's the name of your shop?
@@tafaragadze6432 A couple of phone calls will turn that info, after all, there are only a couple of shops in that town.
During my practice, I had several clients who were bitten by the private jet bug. Only one of them could really afford it. He was the sole owner of a company doing about $500MM in annual sales. The rest came to the same realization to which you have come. If it isn't making money for you, you should not buy it. It is a luxury which few can afford.
Yep. The costs of even a multi-engine turbo-prop of essentially the same type and size aircraft are a fraction as much. Jets are just loopy bizarro-world expensive.
$500MM but what was his bottom line?
@@bobrae5484 Typically business jets for corporate use require about 2-3 million a year to run including hiring pilots, fuel, and so on. Plus whatever you are paying to finance the thing. Really kind of stupid money versus just flying first class all the time, especially on some of the more luxurious carriers.
A jet is a tool, not a toy that you can afford. The cost of maintenance, insurance, training will kill you financially. Finally, you will ask why nobody wants to buy your jet? I hope you exit without too much pain.
or you can rent it :)
Is it just me or was anyone else expecting over $100,000
*On a 25 year old jet? Yep.*
what was the total?
@@dabneyoffermein595 *Watch this again. JR clearly, unequivocally and to the penny answered your question. Cheers!*
same
@@dabneyoffermein595 $28,000 probably lost couple grand not being able to fly it but still
That’s not that bad. I just finished a $105,000 panel job on a Cessna 340. that took 1.5 years. 2022 annual was $27,000, flew the airplane to the avionics shop, they took their sweet time, airplane went out of annual. Had to get an annual done on the field it was at. Just got the bill - $38,000 and most of the items found were due to sitting for 1.5 yrs. Welcome to aviation
That is a very costly lesson. Personality I would have went and flew it back. 1.5 yr is just way too long. Imo. Sorry to hear.
I will recommend you keep the panel you have.
Keeping in mind I have maybe all of 60 hours or so total; I did not pursue flying much farther because the cost of training had already been quite high for my budget. I may eventually get back to flying; I'm planning on buying another computer for a flight simulator.
I have long had a beef with all-glass cockpits: It's an electronic gadget, it can fail. It can fail at the worst possible time.
I think it great to have a moving map display that also includes other functions, keep it in the middle or to the right in the cockpit.
You still want to have your steam gauges in front of the pilot. They're not going to go blank if a computer chip has a problem.
I think there's another reason you see very few videos done about privately-owned jets: Most privately-owned jets ...exist for routine corporate travel. They're only "privately-owned" insofar as not intended for commercial airline or charter flight use. They're quite expensive, true, yet the corporation doesn't mind the expense (as much) because they allow corporate leadership to move about without the hassles of airline schedules and security checks. Such jets also can often use smaller airports, so might come closer to actual operating locations.
Very few videos exist because most corporations have little interest in telling the world about how much they spend for travel....
Current Panel looks great. I don't like all the flat panels.... I"m old school. LOL
I used to work on these as a mechanic. The labor rate per hour is usually cheaper compared to automotive maintenance. It's normally the parts that get you.
I dunno, a Lexus oil change is $100 for up to 8 qts of Syn and a filter.
And we both know they never mark up parts? maybe a little, 500%...
Bring your own.
Yes a screw can cost $100
Most private jets are 2% of original purchase price (not used price) per year to maintain, that is why they are usually connected to a revenue stream or generate a revenue stream. Most yachts are 10% of purchase price per year, 15% the first year.
Not even close.
@@ColdgeckoYes a crewed yacht is worse without a business angle. Even though this guy is posting the cost (very reasonable in my view) he is not reporting 100% bonus depreciation and what that did to his tax bill, or that he likely wrote this whole annual bill off as a business expense for his channel, saving maybe 30%. The idea that running cost could far exceed the purchase price tells you why it was so cheap to purchase. The Williams upgrade is going to set him back quite a lot; better sell a lot of advertising with these vids…
Most people even multi billionaires charter everything they own unless you're Tom Cruise or John Travolta or something and just do it for fun and treat it like a house.
I am owner of a yacht.... 🙄😁
Actually, not as bad as I was thinking it would be. I once got hosed on an annual inspection on my piston plane for $21,000.00
Same. I've spent >25k for my piston annuals the last two years. Cylinder overhauls, new turbos, etc. Adds up quick.
Multiple aircraft owner here….I’ve owned 2 Beechcraft Twin Bonanzas: D50 Sweringen and G 50 (IGSO 480 powered), a Beechcraft Queen Air, and a Bellanca Super Vikings. Always found maintenance to be surprisingly expensive. Looking back at my life…. aircraft ownership and flying were very rewarding. Rule #1 Always buy the best example you can afford and seriously consider purchasing examples that are the most popular as this will insure a more successful buyer pool when your bird gets too expensive to maintain. SAFE FLYING
I'm not sure what you were expecting the upkeep of your personal jet to be, but to be honest I was surprised your first service was only $27k. As you may know, come engine overhaul time, it'll be around $100k (each). But if you can justify the costs, more power to you.
Clearly you have never overhauled a turbine.
Wasn't nearly as expensive as I had anticipated. Especially given that half of it was a once in a 25 year issue. Considering that a new equivalent would be around $5M, your shop visit cost around a half percent of its new cost. Not bad!
Exactly, it only seem expensive in the context of the $50,000 that he you paid for it. If it were a new jet costing millions, the maintenance would seem much more reasonable.
The fuel for flying that thing for 12 hours is about that amount. He need to Stop whining like a punk B!
I'm the proud owner of a 1978 501SP that I purchased after selling my ,1979. I'm a pilot and fly my own which is a main reason I love my Citation. My personal annual budget with my engines on a manufacturer plan(and I budget fuel by the trip not in a lump of estimated hours) is approximately $200,000/yr. I'm just shy of 6'6" talk and have no trouble getting into the cockpit and find it quite comfortable. Love the video and my opinion on why there aren't more private jet owners doing videos about cost etc is if they're like me it's because my money and expenses are my business etc or because the majority are fractional owners instead of sole owners. That's my theory anyways
Yep, I've run into quite a few guys like you flying older Citations. Most are happy to answer some questions about operating costs, but they're not posting youtube videos about it because it involves their personal finances. Haven't met any under age 50, so it's probably generational too. Older people aren't posting nearly as much private stuff online as the 20 year olds. Self-flying makes a huge difference. There are tons of commercial 501 pilots out there, but it's not the most convenient thing to hire them trip by trip, and not worth having a full time pilot to fly only 50 hours a year. Charter isn't worth it either. I don't enjoy flying jets that much and I wouldn't fly one enough to stay proficient, so I just take a little longer to get where I'm going. I like flying, so no big hurry.
You also aren't prone to being overly dramatic and lying. You are probably new to JR and his antics. Back when he was first doing car stuff, his brother were running crypto scams and using his gullible most,y teenage audience to fund their scams. Then as things began to come out, his brothers bailed and tried saying that they were clueless and had no idea what they were doing. Some jail time happened with his brothers, he was also called out for faking his videos a lot. This videos are out there and you can find them. Then a few years later his friend was killed in a car crash. They wasted no time monetizing that death to the maximum amount as could be. Then claimed that they were doing it to raise money to help the families. That was a lie and they were sued for it. Then they were breaking down Porsche 928 and 944 cars and went on VinWiki clai ING the seats were worth way more than the cars by like 100 times. This lead to people buying the seats out of junkyards and from Copart auctions only to find out, it was certain seats that had very specific designs on them and the pictures shown in B roll, were not the seats they were talking about. So people got angry about that and he did provide the B roll but claimed he didn't know. He just has a history of embellishments, lying, making stuff up and overly dramatized content. He did go on a redemption arc so to speak and got better about his car content. That led to more creators actually working with him and kind of redeeming him in the automotive TH-camr space, but if you asked 25 people over the age of 30 who have watched automotive TH-camrs for a while who the most clickbait channels would be, them and DDE would come out as the top.
I'm in my 40's now but while earning my private I washed planes and befriended the owner of a 501SP so started learning the airplane at a young age and without cost. I fly a lot as a professional musician so the convenience and cost of owning and flying my own are a huge savings over all in cost and time.
Oh and if you want a great place to get your 501 serviced, the place I get sinister all of mine done at is Jet Air 275 Lloyd Stearman Dr, Galesburg, IL 61401. I've never had any issues with them and find they are great at ditching inexpensive hard to find parts
Not sinister but the place I get almost all of my work done at. Lol
Not bad at all for your 1st maintenance. I was expecting 150k on the low side 300k mid and 600k+ on the high side. Anything below 80k maintenance/parts is a relief in this world.
I swore it would be six figures. I would just die if they told me major engine problems.
Exactly my thoughts '$150,000'...
got off way easy!
Yup I agree. Plus these costs are pretty standard and not a surprise. Not sure why he was surprised. Googling for 15 minutes would give anyone a sense of cost. My Ferrari at 17K miles with everything working fantastic… the maintenance was $14,800.
I'm not sure if it's any consolation: BE GLAD that you don't have a Heinckel Messerschmitt Me 262, because THAT thing needs a REBUILD of BOTH TURBINES after every 4 HOURS of flight time. In any case, always have MAXIMUM FUN with your masterpiece. I envy you.
After timing out an inspection, you probably could have gotten a Ferry Permit to relocate to a more cooperative FBO. Happens all the time. Would need the help of an IA (and helps to make friends with the local FSDO), but at least you would not be held hostage to a particular airfield. Panel and interior upgrades? I'd wait for a panel upgrade until you have to replace a gyro or similar. Instead of spending $10k to replace old broken components, do the upgrade then. It can take time to get it scheduled, so it may mean the jet just sits again. You'll get more reliability out of a digital panel, but you won't improve the resale value by a similar amount. If you plan to resell the jet in the near future...avoid upgrades.
I know the prices seem shocking, but considering the factors of precision/safety and also of economies of scale (how many gear extension nitrogen bottles for a Citation 501 do you think the factory needs to produce?), I'd say $27K was a pretty reasonable price, ESPECIALLY when you consider from the shop's perspective they got your bird in right away, and all the hustling they did for you. I used to fly the C-130 Hercules, and $27K bought one-quarter of a propeller blade.
That's military though. Companies take a civi part and multiply it times 10.
Also lul on quality. My old company had so many quality issues, and hired unqualified people for 14 dollars an hour making hydraulic parts for airliners, and even hired a meth head once to make parts. (she passed the drug test but was methed up every day before she got fired for causing drama)
It's not so much a matter of precision or safety, but _liability._ If a part fails, it's your ass!
Yeah, I went to a place that built rotor blades for big helicopters like that (I don't recall which exact model it was), near Los Angeles. They're essentially hand-made, and to very tight tolerances, and with some pretty cool materials. I was watching them lay one up and I asked how much one cost - $80K. And that was years ago. And each helicopter needed 4 of them. And as I'm sure you know... they don't last forever.
I'd rather fly with peace of mind in 1st class in passenger jet. Much more relaxing with none of the headaches of private jet ownership.
Here before all the “I knew you couldn’t afford it” comments 😂
bro really just commented on his own video on his second channel 💀
@@CptJake07 yeah no shit. Talk about fishing for comments. No wonder this guy can’t wear A hat. His head is too full of himself and probably couldn’t find a size 40 extra large, lol
BROOO LMFAO
Why are you feeling so superior? They were right.
The fact you have like 8 porsches,a lambo, 3 ferraris and like 12 other super cars, not to mention other businesses and investements and youtube channels..affordability of the jet wasnt really to much of a concern. Love the fact we can learn about it and whats involved.. thanks!!
For real. It’s hard to feel sorry for this guy.
@@reason6835 does he really have 8 porches.....(with or without swings?)
@@dabneyoffermein595: I’d be willing to bet that he has at least 8 porches. (And at least 2 of them have swings).
@@dabneyoffermein595 (edited) Ha, ha, thanks for the laugh.
He also bought his better half a plane. I just can't feel sorry for this guy.
I new a guy back in the 1980's who was a Learjet mechanic in the Air Force, who planed on doing the same thing as a civilian, and I am surprised your cost are that low to be honest. It was informative watching the video and I wish you great success with your new used aircraft.
He doesn’t even begin talking numbers until the 7 minute mark, and mentions “we had no idea how expensive service is” approximately 300 times.
Outstanding video, i have owned 14 planes. 2 turbines but no jets, i feel your pain. Find a good shop, stick with them, bring them beers, bring them donuts treat them well. They are not printing 501 mechanics anymore. Keep flying
I've worked for Learjet for nearly 44 years, 35 of that in material control handling parts. I've seen invoices for everything from rivets to engines over the years. The running gag all that time was that we were working the wrong end of the business. Just wait until the gear needs an overhaul. That's a good chunk of change too.
Yea lol...we should be in the parts industry. The cost for a lightbulb!
Imagine if the compressor rotors go or his N2 turbine rotor....I know on PT6A -20's one of those is around $38,000 just for the part lol
If you dont already have them get some engine intake/ exhaust covers or plugs, keeps birds or bug from building nests in the engines, Also keeps the fan from spinning in the winds when the bearings are some what dry on lubrication.
Was gonna say, is it supposed to be making that clacking noise?
All turbofan engines do that. The blades are loose and stretch through centrifugal force.
@@camgamer143 As cosnowborder777 said, yes the fans blades are loose till they spin under power and heat,
The plugs are a good idea, but the bearings on the fan shaft are the only thing spinning on a JT15D
With normal winds, the bearings don't run "dry". When the core (N2) quits turning, the scavenge side of the pump stops extracting the oil from the bearings. 2380, Jet II, and Mobil 254 is pretty good stuff
I'll take the 30 minute TSA line and a $800 first class ticket on Delta with champagne service any day, and buy a nice house with a Lambo with the savings! 😀
That said, I think it's SUPER COOL that these young men are able to have their own private jet!
Besides the awesome footage your channel offers, your candor regarding the operating costs for the Citation purchase and operating costs really made me appreciate the channel and what you're doing. Keep up the good work!
The insane costs of aviation parts might make one assume that the manufacturers are swimming in profits, but in fact, according to GAMA, most of them are actually struggling to stay in business. I guess this has to do with low demand (diseconomies of scale) since not many people buy these parts, and the costs associated with R&D as well as airworthiness certification.
And Lawyers.
A lot of the vendors that made parts for there jets have been pushing up daisies for fifteen years.
Add to that the problems getting parts for these old units. Got an old Honeywell TV type display? Good luck getting one. Parts to fix CRTs went away five years ago. Honeywell is buying old units, and cannibalizing parts. Even then, last time I priced one, they were $18k.
Your only other options are:
- Buy an "as removed" unit, hope it has traceability. Usually a 30 day warranty. Or,
- Buy the "plug and play" STC that Duncan and others sell. Replaces the CRT with an LED display that just plugs in. If you are budget limited, you can replace them as they fail.
Price? Last I checked, $50k plus per display.
All those upcoming maintenance issues was why they sold the jet for a discounts. However, it is really cool to see the actual ownership experience.
The SP I flew back in the day was 82k for a Phase, and some minor upgrades. No glass please, you will exceed the value of the plane. Also the interior looks good. Pick your battles.
All I can say is thank you for this. Got this dream out of my system for now.
I had three Citations (well I flew and managed them) over the years. I always used a Citation Service Center. These inspections should have taken 3 days, maybe 6 if something was found. That being said, their customer service did begin to fail towards the end of my career. But they still would have all of that done in a week.
Even if it costs $200-300k a year for fixed/variable costs on 100ish hours of flying, the cost of money (interest) alone on a newer jet in low 7 figure range can easily surpass that. Amortization is your friend, dont think about the "cash" hit. That $10k bottle is basically a $1k/yr expense.
Great point. No one ever thinks of amortization and the cost of money (interest; and even if you have the moeny alternative uses for the money.)
I've owned two aircraft. The most expensive was a 1949 Cessna 140, at $20K. The least expensive was a homebuilt biplane of my own making, which cost me about $8K. I won first place at my local EAA annual fly with that little rocket. The plane still flies today, 23 years later. Perhaps a jet is in my future ;-).
I too, went experimental with a Minimax. All wood airplane, so easy enough to maintain and repair right in the garage
At this point what you should do is figure out end-of-life plan. Let's say you want to get 3 more years out of it and another 500 hours. Now, figure out hourly cost for each upgrade. For example, interior at 50k total will cost you $100 per hour. Keep in mind that your resale value will not change much no matter how much money you invest. It will all be sunk cost. It is possible that at the end of 3 years you will have to sell it for scrap anyway, depending on what major repairs will be required.
I'd be fine with the steam gauges. I flew both on the airlines and the best part of the glass was the map. The attitude indicator, and the other flight instruments I never found any advantage of the glass over the steam gauges. And the vertical tape altimeter, airspeed and VSI lacks the clock position. Which requires more intense interpretation. For takeoff and climb we'd set power with N1 or EPR. But for maneuvering we'd use fuel flow. With glass it was reverted to little digital numbers that were hard to see. I remember thinking "how is this an improvement?". I've also taken off and had both the capt. and F/O's screens go black. With just FMC FAIL displayed. They came back shortly after, but when you lose the screen you lose it all. I can think of a lot of other things to use that money for, like fuel and maintenance.
it sounds like the bottle lasts 25 years so this inspection was really like 7-9k if we assume thats not something you ever have to deal with again for another 24 years
Jeff, As an old time pilot who flies on the cheap, leave the interior and panel. Here's why. First my example. I fly a 1975 V35B with the original King KX-170/175B radio and a KMA-20 audio panel which are probably older than your father and they work great. The only two modern things on the panel is the JP!-830 and the GTX 345 xpdr. No issues. My GPS is Adventure Pilot iFly on an iPad4+ I bought refurbed for $270. Works perfect. And I hand fly 3, 31/2 hour trips all the time. No a/p. In the Baron I used the a/p sparingly. I don't fly too much IFR anymore, I don't like the stress, but in the Baron I talk about, I did recurrency training once a year. My bird before that was the B58TC with a King/Collins stack also no issues in over a thousand hours and I fly approaches down to 300 feet perfectly, all hand flown even though I had a KFC200 FD. I did install a KLN94. It was also a FIKI certified but never turned on the system. Six packs work great as do ILS and GPS RNAV approaches which you have. I knew a guy who had a glass cockpit and he spent too much time with his head in the cockpit. Not enough outside scan and not enough hand flying. He isn't here anymore destroying a beautiful M20J in the process. He was always fiddleing with the avionics. Glass panels suffer from buttonology and to much info, reduce scan rates and cause target fixation. My opinion. I am a West Coast pilot but have flown all over the country and OSH at least 15 times. We don't have East Coast weather. Rule 1: Don't fix what isn't broken. You'll end up with more problems.
As to the interior, it's nice and looks great. It's leather, it's a nice brown and it sits well. See Rule 1.
45 or so years ago I owned and operated with my bro three Viscounts VC-745d's flying entertainers (I was young like you are now). We did great running a safe but slender operation. 100% dispatch reliability.
Leave the Avionics and interior alone unless there are huge issues. See Rule 1. We even left the avionics alone in the Viscounts, old but solid Collins 618M-1s and PN101s. 100 % reliability. again, see Rule 1.
Oh, and as I commented before, you guys flew great, both of you. You both have it. Continue on. I've flown an SR-22 a few hours and the Bonanzas fly better. The only thing better is a P-51 and T-28 both of which I have flown as well.
Wow holy smokes! That’s for the detailed insightful comment. Crazy you flew a P51!!
@@JRAviation Misfit (Bill Rheinschilds bird at the time) out of VNY about 30 years ago. I flew for an hour or so for a $100 (gas money). I flew with Kevin LaRosa, not KRII but his dad, who ran West Coast Helos, also a movie pilot as his son is. So we took off (I had about 1,500 hours at the time mostly in a T210 and we flew off over to the Malibu Coast, right off the colony. We got done to 15 feet a quarter mile off shore at 300 kts and behind us was a 15-20 foot rooster tail trailing us for about 100-150 yeads, like an unlimited hydroplane. UNBELIEVABLE. Then I pull straight up, pulling about 1,200 hp for about 4,000 feet, level off and do some airwork and stuff, I didn't do the landing. You think, and the P-51 does it. When I flew a T-28, it was as easy to fly as the Banana with perfect control and intuitive response in pitch, yaw and roll. I almost bought that airplane but made a smarter choice in the Baron 58TC. And the Baron was almost as fast in cruise about 205-210 kts TAS (168 IAS) at 12--14,000' 62% and 32/gph. In my current V35B, I get 148 kts IAS, 176 TAS at 20X2,400 on 12.5 gph at 11,500.' Hard to beat that. The T-28 is about 225-230 kts on about 50-60 gph.
*P-51: Bud Maytag is looking down and smiling at you. Cheers!*
Agree old stuff can be great …had PN 101 for over 10 years…100% reliable!
@@walterthorne4819 In what?
Imagine the maintenance costs of a commercial air liner: example emergency evacuation equipment. The gas inflation cartridges on the life jackets have a fixed life before mandatory replacement. Same with the life jacket itself. Jets over water require exit slides that transform into rafts. Rafts with emergency supplies that have a fixed life, like water, first aid kits, flashlights and ELTs with batteries, and flares, all in case a jet needs to survivably ditch on the high seas. Yet the number of incidents in civil aviation of the past 60 years where large numbers of passengers have had to rely on this equipment while floating on rafts awaiting rescue for many hours, is zero.
I'll throw a dime in. Simple roll sunshades on a 737 cost aprox 5000 Dollars. A FADEC (rarelly replaced, usually in defect situations)costs about 500000$. So imagine how much a check is quoted, while all defects found on the same check can explosively inflate the price.
Exactly! And then what happens is when I'm in Logan (Boston) on the tarmac flying to South Carolina on Spirit and look around the cabin knowing they are getting a whopping $165 per head ROUND TRIP it is kinda scary ;-)
im sure these airlines get mates rates
I think about that on fighters...the egress/ejection equipment too. An FCC (Flight Control Computer) for an F15E is $400000, and they swap those things out like hotcakes.
I worked at an airline, the 4 year overhaul ran about 75% of the cost of a new plane.
I always say...the get- in price of an airplane is something, the stay- in price is something else. I upgraded and modified a Twin Commander nose to tail, flew it for a dozen years.. Luckily my wife hasn't yet seen the bills I accrued. Plane ownership is like operating a side business, and there's always some squawk needing attention. Complex aircraft ownership isn't for the faint of heart and makes little financial sense. The experience is priceless, however, and for everything else there is Master Card.
can you give any info why they couldnt just made that bottle to spec at a company that specializes in pressure vessels? what kind of bottle is that? how many bars? or some special weld or what? alsom im just an enthusiast but i saw the garmin instrument prices theyre just insane... and everything is extra, for every option you need to pay a lot of extra money
@@kbuss10 Aircraft parts have paperwork that follows them through their life. Parts need to be made by manufacturers certified to various standards. An authorized manufacturer is able to certify the parts they produce meet the required standards and provide paperwork showing the same to follow the part through it's life. Your general pressure vessel company is not up to those standards. Those that are, are able to charge $10k for a small cylinder.
@@Melanie16040 you think a company who makes canisters for saturation diving, oil industry, gas transport, dangerous chemicals etc is not up to the standard? pressure rating, material quality, fatigue etc is well understood thruout the metal industry. what you write sounds a scheme to me...
Well it is a scheme, as you say, the standards are stipulated y whatever aviation authority or administration inspects your aircraft and the parts, all numbered have to be approved and registered, if the aircraft has an adequately good part from the diving industry say, then the aircraft would be grounded if it was not an authority or administration approved part also the insurance on the aircraft would be invalid for the same reason it's a pain in the wallet unless you employ your own certified aircraft engineer who is also a chief engineer.
@@a320nicksounds like a racket
Honestly it came out cheap! Jets are expensive, not only to buy but to maintain. Bless up! Great content!
if your in USA, then you should try here in Australia, we are on the other side of the world, prices are a lot more... well done for getting yourself a nice private jet, it looks really nice. Enjoy flying, and safe travels.
I've never owned an airplane, but I did have a 55 ft Hatteras sportfisher. Similar thing, the maintenance soon outstrips the purchase cost. I'd never own another one, its far cheaper to charter.
I owned a 1976 B55 Baron back in 1985. It was low time, and in pristine condition. The annual inspection still cost me (Beechcraft West) $9,000 which would be about $90,000 today. Airplanes are just plain expensive.
Flying my 1980 Cessna 210 average annual budget was about 30k includes fuel for 100 hours of flying. Loved the plane but sold it and built a 125k loaded ifr glass panel Rv9a , and also fly for a regional airline (e175) 2nd career thanks to the pilot shortage! Love flying the jet which the last four years have been incredible!
"Don't even get me started on _______ " Boat/ship owners had a couple -centuries- millennia head start on that famous line. Still hilarious after all these years! 🤣🤣🤣
I love and adore the inclusion of the great trailer park supervisor jim lahey stumbling drunk down the stairs when revealing the price.
Perfect reaction.
First of all, congradulations stepping up to a jet! Big adventure!
I service jets from this catagory, up to old G-IV, G-IV, Falcon 900 and so forth.
You are absolutly , totally responsible for not educating yourself first. You are the owner that we mechanics giggle about.
That said, it sounds like the 3rd shop shot you a pretty fair deal.
We get experience when we dont get what we want. You now have experience.
You might conssider a independant mechanic that will lay out a resonable 5 year maintenance guestimate. Kilobuck or 3.
This will help you identify "airplane killers" like life limited parts, major engine work, etcetera.
As soon as someone mentions part 135 (or part 134 and 1/2)......... RUN!!!!!!!
BLESSINGS! You are on a great learning curve!
Todd
Well spoken! Hillarious lack of experiece.
It's been my experience that the initial maintenance on an aircraft after purchase has been the most expensive. So, maybe, just maybe things will calm down a bit for you guys moving forward... Good luck!!
Haha, I think they've used up their luck on getting away so cheap on this one. Next one might make them cry.
I remember buying 2 bleed off valve controllers for our Citation Encore. They arrived in a single Cool Whip container. $42,000.
YIKES!!!! I get how important that part is and how specialized the manufacturing process is, but $42,000?? Then again can’t say it completely surprises me. I once talked to an aircraft detailer/cleaner that accidentally slipped down the steps of a Falcon 2000. He grabbed the hand rail and bent it. $23,000 for what seems like one of the simpler parts of the plane.
That's one expensive cool whip container.
@@ADAPTATION7 Well, in all fairness I guess there was 10¢ of bubble wrap too! 😁
@@hunterdavis2833you can thank the FAA for requiring literally everything to be approved which makes every thing on a plane go through the roof.
Thank you for talking about costs 😊😊❤
I personally Love your up front tell NO Lies. The same with me on BUYING an old Fire Engine ( 1971 SeaGrave 750 gallon water tank) when I had DOT inspection there were cost invalid. Then Transmission problems. Multiple TOWS to repair shop. But at end of the day. The big SMILE get from kids and parents with kids getting in cab, being able to move around the whole front cab, unlike modern FD engine that have engine blocking the cab. I love going through the old girl, fixing wiring issues. Being able to do quick chage out of Light Bars. Adding electronic Sirens. It only had the BIG Federal "Q" on nose, when I got her. You can even stand up inside Pump area underneath to understand what the plumbing is like. The water Tank doesn't LEAK.
Dude is crying over $27,080.67 but doesn't even blink ablut spending 50k on a new interior. Makes no sense.
!! Love your show !!
Honestly, Don't go for looks, ie. children spend all their money just to impress someone else !
Just maintain it, use it, enjoy it, when the time is right, sell it !
Once again, it’s the 3 F rule. Everyone in their right mind knows it.
Parts for the old slotation are getting more expensive! But the reason they and getting rare is because they are very thirsty and when the engines time out the aircraft is not worth overhauling! Worked on citations for over 20 years!
I fly a Citation X, for a private Jet charter company, and those X's are ALWAYS down for maintenance!!
Don't even think of owning a private Jet unless you have UNLIMITED CASH.
You have been warned!
It would be great to see follow-up when you are finally done with this plane. Total cost of ownership vs total number of flight miles over a multi-year period. Most private jet folks sort of growl and demure when asked this.
As a former PC-12 NGX owner, I can tell you you got off cheap. You either pay for quality, or you pay for maintenance. Sometimes both. Your annual costs were truly moderate.
Amen on the Pilatus. We are close to the finish of a Life Extension Program on our Legacy PC-12. 1 year out of service and the better part of 1MM.
A new interior would be nice and make you feel good for a very short time, but with all the other expenses, it’s not worth spending the money. You might have to triple your auto sales to justify it. Think ROI, and that should make you see it’s not worth it. Thanks for this informative video.
Seeing the interior upgrade equals 2 scheduled maintenance visits I would keep it as it is, it looks fine for the remaining life.
I was 20k into my 421 before it even made it to its annual. I figure I will be into it 35k just in maintenance my first year of ownership and only flew it 8 hours. Good luck, we both need it. lol
I worked part time in a paint and interior shop 25 years ago. We were getting up to $20,000 per seat to refurbish (not remanufacture) them to like new. We even color-matched the screw heads to the interior color with Imron paint.
Owning a jet is the closest thing you can have to buying time. As a toy for trips to Vegas with your buddies, ridiculously expensive and not practical. But if you use it for work, making money, the costs can absolutely be worth it.
...which is why we have the private jet industry to start with. If you're only using it for fun, owning a plane it's going to look like an irrational decision.
Future reference you can always get a ferry permit to take it to a different shop! I work on these often and will say the oem will schedule you and have you ready to go and won’t put you on the back burner like that!
You're right. I was going to say get a ferry permit go to Wichita to the Citation center and let them work on it. Or check with Yingling aviation on the field.
See comment above.
95% of the WCSC guys haven't laid a wrench on anything older than 525.
Check with Yingling. They geared up to support these older Citations a while ago.
Madness sinking capital into ‘upgrades’. You’ll never see a return on it other than memories and experiences.
100% correct. Absolutely nothing wrong with the old-style steam gauges. Accurate, reliable... so what if you can't overlay your GPS onto the screen? Learn to fly the G**damned airplane. Plus too also as PerthHunter has stated - you'll never see that money back again either in resale or operational savings. If you absolutely have to have a moving map display, buy a tablet.
Yeah, just get an iPad and call it done !
This is how aviation prices work. Take a high full retail price for a part and multiply that by 15-20.
The amount of time you took talking about maintenance without actually saying what maintenance you got or what is cost was impressive
I expected a higher bill. You could always part out the plane and probably double your money.
I know that if I get upset paying for lower gear oil for my 50 hp outboard, and I’m doing the labor, I’d sooner walk than pay for my own private jet airplane. But, with TH-cam, I get to experience this through you.
Everything is within walking distance. Eventually.
Imagine how the costs stack up if you own an airline. Their aircraft come out of a maintenance period straight back into a scheduled service. Hey, the 300 people at gate 23 we couldn't get a part for our plane can you all come back in a week?
Well done for giving your dream a go. So many people are scared to face a risk and get nowhere as a result. As a military pilot I know the risks but never felt the cost. I will however look into owning a helicopter and I imagine the cost of ownership will be eye watering on another level.
Shop for a shop and get a ferry permit.
Been there done that on the pressure bottle date.
$11k for an annual isn't so bad. It's not Jets, it's AIRPLANES!
My Dad use to tell me, "The cheapest thing you will put in an airplane is gas."
Thanks for posting the video. You're right, it's the first video I've seen like this talking about jet ownership cost. My husband and I have a Malibu jet prop and can sympathize with a lot of the costs. They're actually similar and we're going 100 miles an hour slower, but we're only burning 30 gallons an hour most of the time
160 to 200 gals a hr
It’s gallons per mile, not miles per gallon. Lol!
@@AlanMydland-fq2vs I'm an owner and pilot and I commented earlier that I disagreed with his fuel figure as I average about a 75 gallon per hour burn rate
@@76Draeger in ones and twos we always figured 160 gals a hr and 360 kts
@@AlanMydland-fq2vs and that was what I was told when I was getting my certification but the past 15 years of owning and flying I've averaged, and still do, 75 gph burn. I think my worst was around 150 at low altitude and with head wind so my flight planning I use the 160 but my jet card uses an average of 75 so and since the video was about actual cost I thought I'd add my experienced cost in the comments.
This was a great story! Looks like I'll stick with my prop airplane for now!
Love your videos, I am a director of maintenance for a global express part 91 family owns it. When we cross the pond from Dallas love field with all the engine and airframe programs plus’s the 6500 gallons of fuel it’s about 90,000 dollars one way. The cost to these guys is like 100 dollars to us normal people.
Caveat emptor - my friend called me up on a deal for an old Jaguar XK8 at 20,000 miles for $15K - no accidents. He's not a TH-cam blogger with deep pockets. I told him it is a maintenance money pit, but no....he wanted to project himself as well to do. It cost him his wife due to the shop costs.
Well, there isn’t anything cheap or inexpensive about owning or operating an airplane, whether being a single engine, piston plane, propeller, driven or turban, propeller, driven or jet, driven multi engine or single engine jet. Nothing inexpensive about that. I enjoy watching your videos as you are 6 foot six. It amazes me how you get into one of those airplanes in the cockpit to fly it. I guess that’s why I see you in the backseat more or most of the time, but anyway as most people complain about why you spend money on an airplane, I think they’re jealous because you own one and are able to afford to have one and that’s why they complain because they’re jealous. You have fancy cars nice cars with that but anyway hats off to you keep up the good work and like I said, there’s nothing inexpensive about an airplane, or even a car as they still cost a lot of money to operate and keep on the road or in the air safely. Enjoy it while you can enjoy it while you can.
Thank you for the detailed comment Jerry!
Owning a jet is a rich mans hobby. Leasing a jet is not as sexy, but more practical. Full disclosure- I fly commercial with the cheapest carrier.
This was a really interesting video. It would have been interesting to compare the cost with the cost of using someone like netjet for the same amount of flights
Yeah, but then he can’t brag about owning his own plane 😀😀😀
Now you know. Since everything is determined by date, you can map out maintenance going forward. And be prepped. First thing I'd do is find a used set of maintenance manuals. Map out each phase with parts and labor. Determine what can be diy and what can't. Shop for labor just like parts. When you're not rushed, deals are easier.
If you own a jet , you should be able to afford the maintenance! ( worth every penny when your life is on the line) . Better yet just fly first class!!
Agreed, it's bonkers! We just bought a Gulfstream GIV-SP with annual operating costs (not including the debt payment) of $3.7 Million. The new WiFi we're installing right now costs $250k alone (if we opted for international WiFi it would be $500-600k). Just to recover the couch/divan in new leather costs $25-30k (based on the latest quotes).
Anything with an aviation tag immediately adds 3 zeros to the price.
Thats insane.
@@MattH-wg7ouI concur. There is no justification for those prices. Not even if you're going to the Moon. Too many Industries with governments as customers or something
If you have to ask, you can’t afford it especially in the big boy world. To truly afford a Gulfstream or Global or Falcon etc you need to be worth 500 million or better or your companies need to generate the equivalent
@@renscienceI couldn't agree more especially/specifically when purchasing a new or 'reasonably new' Gulfstream or Global Express aircraft. That said, you can get a nice, lower hour/well optioned GIV-SP for $6.5-7M vs. spending $50M+ on a newer version of something similar. Note: old and new Gulfstream heavy's have very similar annual operating costs.
My vote is keep panel / interior original. Save those $$ for unexpected things to keep that bird flying. New panel/interior won’t make it fly 1 KT faster.
If the new interior is lighter, then yes, it will fly faster and useful load will increase.
Not faster but much safer, especially single-pilot ;-)
I took a systems course on this jet in college. Love to see it still flying.
Same exact plane?
Aircraft part production runs are tiny compared to vehicles that do not fly and the required certs mean expensive quality control. Given the exotic processes used to manufacture engines their cost is impressively low for what they are and how long they stay on-wing. That's why it's hard for even rich countries to break into the market.
Considering the size and age of the jet, that's honestly not bad. No system overhauls, no engine overhauls, no landing gear rebuild, no wing replacement.
Don’t do biz in CA.
*Sage advice.*
6:27 In the Air Force on the KC135 we called those DADC checks. That stands for Digital Air Data Computer check. We would hook up equipment to the pitot/static system and introduce air pressure into the system to run up the airspeed and altitude instruments. It was an all shift (8 hours) job if everything went well. If something didn't check out, such as their was a leak somewhere, it could turn into a multi day job. lol. Good memories.
An RVSM check is much mor than hooking up a pitot/static machine, the static ports & surrounding areas have to be checked per a maintenance manual “map” which can take several hours of work. Just because your can afford the purchase price of a jet doesn’t mean you can afford to operate it.
@@lookylook570Yea... I was commenting on how involved a RVSM and DADC check is and why it is expensive... Do you think I'd explain EVERYTHING that in involved in doing one in a youtube comment? Of Course not. It's a lot more than just hooking up machine. Like I said, if everything went well with the check, it took about 8 hours, that includes everything such as checking out tools, paperwork and all of the actual maintenance. Lol...
I own a jet provost. Keeping these things flying is a constant struggle! Good luck.
That's a proper aeroplane. Seen a few at Airshows, they look good fun to fly. 😎
Funny enough, I was going to comment, 'buy a Jet Provost' thinking it would be the cheapest way to fly jets... So, I'm wrong but they are so beautiful. Big karma to you Neil. Enjoy it.
Best most honest clip I have ever seen on U tube .Thanks buddy . Very entertaining Glad it ain't my money
Enjoy it a few more hours and get rid of it as long as you can get some money out of it. Despite that, in my opinion, it is boring to fly jets: you fly high, can't enjoy the landscape as if you fly low. So, if you fly as high as a normal jet, you can save the money maintaining your own jet and go into first class instead. I like to fly low, steer by myself while enjoying the landscape. ☺
Love your videos, man! I've always wondered how you got to where you're at. To own all of these planes and cars, you must've done something right financially. Would be a cool video idea.
I was expecting much more. The jet i fly just had a $250k upgrade on its FMS and nothing really was improved. It was required in order to receive upgrades
Jesus
Honeywell, or Rockwell Collins?
What I really liked was the fact that they were discontinuing NDB support, for airplanes that didn't do the upgrades.
The Germans have a word for joy for pain and misfortune suffered by others, Schadenfreude. I’m loving this video. Nothing more expensive in aviation than a cheap old private jet.
It isn't just German...Any more.. Has been in the English dictionary for decades I believe.
I'm a mechanic at Textron (Cessna Citation) with access to parts pricing and obviously labor times. It's insane yet we're busy all the time. There's a lot of money out there being spent on private jets.
Thank you for the honest video. If you live in Germany, this would have cost 45000 to 50000. People who can afford Jets in US could only only fly Cessna twins in Europe. My friend had a Piper Malibu: Annual costs of 20.000 to 40.000 in Germany without fuel. Anorher man had a Cessna 340. It cost about 250.000 Euro in a 3-year period. Better flying business class with an airline. Owning a jet requires minimum 15 to 20 Mio liquid money.
Car part x 10 = Boat part x 10 = piston airplane part x 10 = jet part.
Awesome video! As a 2 time piper Cherokee owner, this really puts jet ownership into perspective😅