Proximity defense: "Enemies gain a Proximity Defense buff which reduces damage taken unless attacking them inside the radius of their shield." So actually decent for your build, if the game wasn't so close range unfriendly already :)
@@CmdrCorn we did smth similar in karate, we had a wooden board wrapped in tightrope nailed to the tire on the wall, we hit it a lot for your nuckles to be in "one row" and to harden your bones.
I personally like the "conquerors will" cinder, because it makes it less likely to absolutely explode bosses, making you dodge more of the often well designed attacks many bosses have. This is of course only if you don't turn on the cinders that enchant bosses or add automatons, at that point it really is less fun. If the dev made it so the cinder only reduced your damage against bosses it would at least not feel as bad with the automaton modifier.
This difficulty seems about right for you since you are so good at dodging. I turn off the -2 inventory size and "can't see your first trait choice" because they are less fun for me. There is a community challenge to win without weapon, aura, damage procs, or picking up any food (no levels). A good one for you to try next, gl :)
I love this game for making certain items more likely when you go into certain builds. It makes it so you could play it for a hundred runs, and still make new discoveries if you start exploring your options more ^^
Solid run, and I agree, it should be can be, not 100% guaranteed for enchanted enemies/bosses, and the centurion is a pain in the ass. Once per run would be solid. I think twice is probably fine as long as it's past the 5th floor. Maybe like the 5th and 7th floor.
I think you did a great job providing some clear and constructive feedback to improve the cinder system. I'm not a game dev, but if I was I would really appreciate the thought and effort you put into providing that sort of feedback for the games you play, especially since you have so much experience with systems of various games.
I just watch Cyberpunk Edgelords recently so when he says "upgrade my fists!" I can only think about his monk getting chromed up with illegal body mods.
Also though, Im kinda intruiged that Cinder 16 is what it takes to actually make Reto sweat and worry about health... It kinda doesnt surprise me that "unfair" is exactly what it takes for the game to be able to fight back. Then again, if it just doesnt feel good, and it seems like puke, well then fun matters more than punishing the top 1% of players.
I really like how fair and detailed your critique is; you do a really good job of being polite and positive about it, coming across in a way that makes it clear you want the game to succeed, you want to help iron out the kinks in the design. You make some really great points and I also enjoy that you showed that "yes I can do it I can beat it" and then you started the discussion. also seriously you make bullet hells look easy, I can barely keep up with what's going on and you're just ducking and weaving through it like a walk in the park
thats why I love reto, he wont just say that something is not fun without trying it out (beating it obv) and writing a full critique why its not fun with points for improvement
I think one thing that will help your runs more is re rolling the tavern to get dice and lucky potions. Luck is crazy OP and lets you get better things. Also go to weapon/gear rooms with the intention of selling them for money. Also never go for cursed rooms. Curse is opposite luck and kills the forward motion of runs. If you are cursed go to taverns and try to remove them asap.
Also forgot to mention this, but luck increases the rewards you get from rooms. Ex: you go to a bomb room and instead of 2 bombs you get 5. Same with key rooms and money rooms. Just try a run where you go for the most luck possible and you will be pleasantly surprised.
"Twice enchanted" should check two times if room will be enchanted and apply both results that way you have more variety of 0, 1 or 2 enchantments. Also cinder could have more incentive to it beside meta XP, like 10% more magic find per level or something that could make it fun alongside hard.
Haven't watched yet but wanted to get a comment down before I hop in. Glad to watch the vid to see your build and approach. I've been enjoying the series. I literally just did a monk run while extremely sleepy after my shift and yeah.... made it but it was ugly lol. Was sleep walking into bosses and the damage sound woke me up.
@@Sinsults I was thinking that boxing gloves and brass knuckles would still be body damage like using your fists to fight, but not a true weapon like a sword or bow etc… I see what you’re saying that it would still be a weapon. I was trying to think of what could potentially be added for a body damage run.
To the dev: would it be possible to add a way to see tooltips on character select? So that players can see what things like Ki-Charge and Ki-Flow do before starting a game with the character?
Honestly I was starting to lose interest in this series, you were face rolling everything for quite a while now, it's nice to see that you increase the challenge, hope you'll keep it for future videos, it was a lot more fun to watch
zombie arm is great because it is boss damage and doesn't need any attunement, so keep your old pet for non-boss fights and then forget and attack boss. It is what I do.
while true I think it should maybe at least be like 25% so that the dire wolf isn't just strictly better while being the same rarity. (or nerfing the wolf to 15% but that is less preferred)
Regarding adding upsides to the cinder modifiers, if the dev is opposed to this then they're right! if you turn on the high difficulty levels, the difficulty should ideally be higher evenly across the board. The same builds that feel necessary at higher cinder levels should still the best builds at low cinder levels, you just don't feel like you're forced to take them because you can win without completely optimizing. If you were good enough at just pure dodging then you could do the slightly unoptimal but completely passable builds at high cinder levels too (I'm not! I like cinder 10 significantly more than cinder 16). Ideally (and mostly how it is now), this is a problem with balancing the different build archetypes to be even with each other, and difficulty scaling for skilled players is a separate issue. Obviously there's not any real way to "just" change the difficulty level without changing some things slightly more than others, and I think that for instance focusing on just making it harder to dodge attacks in fights and survive is a purer way to handle the difficulty scaling that is easily more neutral towards your build archetype as long as you have enough skill, whereas the modifiers like making weapon quality overall worse or not being able to see your first skill choice affect some builds more than others and do not allow for as much build diversity with their design. If you add benefits to the modifiers, instead of it just being a way to make the game harder you're deliberately changing which builds are the best at each level. If you for example increase the luck stat as you add cinder modifiers, then now, instead of it being a balancing problem to make one build not be clearly better than others, you have decided from the outset that luck builds will be better than non luck builds at high cinder levels, and I think that's worse for replayability and novelty between runs, regardless of what difficulty level you prefer playing at.
I think it was for 1. the challenge/achievement on the steam page and 2. to show that he can beat cinder 16 with an added challenge and still think its not fair
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Cinder 16 is for sure a struggle, I’m not sure how we’re expected to consistently do high cinders without going for the same perks and builds.
Proximity defense: "Enemies gain a Proximity Defense buff which reduces damage taken unless attacking them inside the radius of their shield." So actually decent for your build, if the game wasn't so close range unfriendly already :)
Wishes to upgrade fists to get a scope on his finger... Ends up getting sniper fist 🤣
I imagine upgrading your fists would just be punching an anvil until your bones break into a better shape
@Potatezone Like those OG Brazilian Jujitsu guys who kick trees for a living until they're shins are hard and numb...
@@CmdrCorn we did smth similar in karate, we had a wooden board wrapped in tightrope nailed to the tire on the wall, we hit it a lot for your nuckles to be in "one row" and to harden your bones.
squirrel/fox/bird room.
Always take squirrel because he is 15 magic find and this is a floor 1 event.
Bird is move speed.
Frankly, I'm amazed that pure unarmed worked as well as it did. This outperformed some weapon builds.
I personally like the "conquerors will" cinder, because it makes it less likely to absolutely explode bosses, making you dodge more of the often well designed attacks many bosses have.
This is of course only if you don't turn on the cinders that enchant bosses or add automatons, at that point it really is less fun.
If the dev made it so the cinder only reduced your damage against bosses it would at least not feel as bad with the automaton modifier.
This difficulty seems about right for you since you are so good at dodging.
I turn off the -2 inventory size and "can't see your first trait choice" because they are less fun for me.
There is a community challenge to win without weapon, aura, damage procs, or picking up any food (no levels).
A good one for you to try next, gl :)
Aka,the no fun challenge,who would do that?
@@mugiwarat people that enjoy challenge runs? Not really a new concept.
I love this game for making certain items more likely when you go into certain builds. It makes it so you could play it for a hundred runs, and still make new discoveries if you start exploring your options more ^^
This just in, man strangles Mega Death with his bare hands; more at seven.
I found a fun way to play this class was stacking attacking speed and switching to a big slow 2H weapon when I got Flow stacks
Solid run, and I agree, it should be can be, not 100% guaranteed for enchanted enemies/bosses, and the centurion is a pain in the ass. Once per run would be solid. I think twice is probably fine as long as it's past the 5th floor. Maybe like the 5th and 7th floor.
I think you did a great job providing some clear and constructive feedback to improve the cinder system. I'm not a game dev, but if I was I would really appreciate the thought and effort you put into providing that sort of feedback for the games you play, especially since you have so much experience with systems of various games.
I just watch Cyberpunk Edgelords recently so when he says "upgrade my fists!" I can only think about his monk getting chromed up with illegal body mods.
Also though, Im kinda intruiged that Cinder 16 is what it takes to actually make Reto sweat and worry about health... It kinda doesnt surprise me that "unfair" is exactly what it takes for the game to be able to fight back.
Then again, if it just doesnt feel good, and it seems like puke, well then fun matters more than punishing the top 1% of players.
What a run!!! Well played man. Us mere mortals have no chance. Run stressed me out just watching.
"My intelligence has to be pretty high -- I understand Rick and Morty." Adding that to the stash, thanks
I really like how fair and detailed your critique is; you do a really good job of being polite and positive about it, coming across in a way that makes it clear you want the game to succeed, you want to help iron out the kinks in the design. You make some really great points and I also enjoy that you showed that "yes I can do it I can beat it" and then you started the discussion.
also seriously you make bullet hells look easy, I can barely keep up with what's going on and you're just ducking and weaving through it like a walk in the park
thats why I love reto, he wont just say that something is not fun without trying it out (beating it obv) and writing a full critique why its not fun with points for improvement
8:57 these type of gears/charms only show up if you are actively punching iirc
Good grief, sometimes I forget Reto is built DIFFERENT, amazing run
I think one thing that will help your runs more is re rolling the tavern to get dice and lucky potions. Luck is crazy OP and lets you get better things. Also go to weapon/gear rooms with the intention of selling them for money. Also never go for cursed rooms. Curse is opposite luck and kills the forward motion of runs. If you are cursed go to taverns and try to remove them asap.
Also forgot to mention this, but luck increases the rewards you get from rooms. Ex: you go to a bomb room and instead of 2 bombs you get 5. Same with key rooms and money rooms. Just try a run where you go for the most luck possible and you will be pleasantly surprised.
"Twice enchanted" should check two times if room will be enchanted and apply both results that way you have more variety of 0, 1 or 2 enchantments.
Also cinder could have more incentive to it beside meta XP, like 10% more magic find per level or something that could make it fun alongside hard.
I mean 10% per level is to high but yea, like a harder game but potentially stronger builds
Haven't watched yet but wanted to get a comment down before I hop in. Glad to watch the vid to see your build and approach. I've been enjoying the series.
I literally just did a monk run while extremely sleepy after my shift and yeah.... made it but it was ugly lol. Was sleep walking into bosses and the damage sound woke me up.
Monkey Paw curls a finger: Double enchantments are no longer guaranteed, but now triple enchantments are possible.
20:38 Rip that Oregon Trail run.
Day 4 of literally breaking the games code - although this time it wasn’t your fault but the cinder modifiers lmao
Let’s keep the streak going
Wooowww I didn't think you were going to win that one! Great job!
Just chiming in to say i agree so very much your cinder critiques at the end.
They should include like brass knuckles or boxer gloves for a non weapon run.
Even martial artists wraps.
@@Sinsults I was thinking that boxing gloves and brass knuckles would still be body damage like using your fists to fight, but not a true weapon like a sword or bow etc… I see what you’re saying that it would still be a weapon. I was trying to think of what could potentially be added for a body damage run.
Cinder 20 is gonna take the superhero character to even be bearable
I don’t even like watching Cinder 16. It stresses me out with how chaotic it is, and I’m only watching.
Don't sleep on strength for a puncher build. There are strength talents for bleeds and shockwaves to your body damage.
To the dev: would it be possible to add a way to see tooltips on character select? So that players can see what things like Ki-Charge and Ki-Flow do before starting a game with the character?
Loving the Shaolin Monk Luffy gameplay 😂
Honestly I was starting to lose interest in this series, you were face rolling everything for quite a while now, it's nice to see that you increase the challenge, hope you'll keep it for future videos, it was a lot more fun to watch
zombie arm is great because it is boss damage and doesn't need any attunement, so keep your old pet for non-boss fights and then forget and attack boss. It is what I do.
while true I think it should maybe at least be like 25% so that the dire wolf isn't just strictly better while being the same rarity. (or nerfing the wolf to 15% but that is less preferred)
yeah wolf always feels too good when I get it. Then piggy bank pops up at +50% damage and reminds me that balance is all over the place.@@Retromation
Hey retro, you were wondering what prox defence does, I think it increases attack speed and defence for enemies when your in it
Coming out right as the 8am shift starts, Retro don't do it to me lmao
I've been trying to get a straight body damage run for so long really jealous of your run
it would be interesting to see monk specific weapons like brass knuckles or something
13:55 you shoulda just popped out a second fox for the meantime ;)
Regarding adding upsides to the cinder modifiers, if the dev is opposed to this then they're right! if you turn on the high difficulty levels, the difficulty should ideally be higher evenly across the board. The same builds that feel necessary at higher cinder levels should still the best builds at low cinder levels, you just don't feel like you're forced to take them because you can win without completely optimizing. If you were good enough at just pure dodging then you could do the slightly unoptimal but completely passable builds at high cinder levels too (I'm not! I like cinder 10 significantly more than cinder 16). Ideally (and mostly how it is now), this is a problem with balancing the different build archetypes to be even with each other, and difficulty scaling for skilled players is a separate issue.
Obviously there's not any real way to "just" change the difficulty level without changing some things slightly more than others, and I think that for instance focusing on just making it harder to dodge attacks in fights and survive is a purer way to handle the difficulty scaling that is easily more neutral towards your build archetype as long as you have enough skill, whereas the modifiers like making weapon quality overall worse or not being able to see your first skill choice affect some builds more than others and do not allow for as much build diversity with their design.
If you add benefits to the modifiers, instead of it just being a way to make the game harder you're deliberately changing which builds are the best at each level. If you for example increase the luck stat as you add cinder modifiers, then now, instead of it being a balancing problem to make one build not be clearly better than others, you have decided from the outset that luck builds will be better than non luck builds at high cinder levels, and I think that's worse for replayability and novelty between runs, regardless of what difficulty level you prefer playing at.
Haven’t watched yet but I’m excited to see this one!
Have you unlocked the paladin? 😊 saw some guy play that and it looked cool 😊
I wish I knew about this character before I did my no weapon run with the cyborg
damn you're too good
im starting to believe that retromation is a masokist if he is going unarmed with cinder 16
awesome run, though you did make it harder on yourself going no weapon haha, but yeah see what you mean about cinder 16..
I think it was for 1. the challenge/achievement on the steam page and 2. to show that he can beat cinder 16 with an added challenge and still think its not fair
not clickbait. cool
Devils adcocate here: you askrd for a bullet hell, is it hell if you aren't suffering?
Tipsiness changed. I think tipsi is just always 3+cheese now. not health related.
Love this game
Alexa, what's a masochist?
Clearly cinder 16 isn't hard enough if reto can beat it with no weapon...Come on reto you are a roguelite god.
Woot!🎉
Balls woot
Woot ♡
Early for once! Woot!!
Wooww!
Ki im pretty sure its pronounced "che" i may be in the wrond too
Usually spelled Qi or Chi if that is the case, Ki is usually something different
@@Retromation ho ok i'm sorry then
No sorry needed, you could be right