This one felt like something right out of Warhammer. Loved it. Especially the fact that a bare handful of Dawi make it to see a new dawn! Grudge AVENGED.
Haha a few brave Dawi holding back an unstoppable tide of angry Urk filth? Can't get any more classic than that! Glad you enjoyed the video bro! Khazukan khazukit ha!
Thanks Malleus! I really appreciate these tactics videos, I feel most of my battles are just line up the infantry as meat shield and let ranged units fire in from behind. Works great with Elves and archers but I struggle with gunpowder units.
Thanks for watching bro! I'm glad you've been enjoying these, that's part of the reason I wanted to look into these tactics as well. A lot of the time I'd just do the typical 2 line checkerboard set up and wanted to try and see what other stuff would work. Cheers bud!
This was definitely me. I wanted to try the chaos dwarf army out, but never used gun powder units before. If I wasn't dealing with line of sight issues, I was murdering my own front line. This channel has helped me solve those problems.
I have to say the idea of using real life battle tactics in the strategy game is awsome. I tried the Dutch Reform Pike & Shoot from your video and it was very easy to play.
Isn’t it?! Haha at the very least it lets you have some more variety in all the different battles, glad you’ve been enjoying them and that they worked out for you bro!
Yeah, Dwarves have it tough, without any cav or fast units to guard the flank. You really have to just box it up, because you can't adjust quickly to flanking maneuvers. I think in a case like this where you are really outnumbered, it is always gonna be a brutal battle. But any one you walk away from is a win. I think skirmish cav is really useful for baiting and distracting any flanking force. But only in open maps where they have room to run. If it's a small map or they get caught, they are toast.
It ain't easy being a Dawi lmao one thing though is that the allied recruitment system now can really really help them out by letting them get some cavalry. You're totally right though, fancy tactics can only get you so far sometimes haha. That's a really good idea with using skirmish cav for distracting and luring away enemy forces! Cheers bro!
Definitely think you should make some mod showcase videos. A ‘ultimate campaign’ with the best unit, settlement, faction, graphic, etc. mods for each race would be awesome!
When I play as Kislev, my ally draws Flamedrake units always get my infantry caught in the crossfire no matter when I put them except right in front of main line. Melts them just as fast as enemy if not more. Plus as to how to deal with clumped up units, if they are charging speed debuff plus aoe is always a good idea. A runesmith speed debuff plus firedrakes make great combo
I wonder if they're causing more friendly fire because the Kislev units are taller than they are so they get in the way more easily? I know Dwarfs can shoot over each other more easily when fighting against the more regular sized factions so having some tall Manlings in the way probably is causing them some issues
Awesome videos, just one suggestion when you show the formation use different colors for different roles, instead of all blue and just changing the symbol, it would be much easier to understand the formation with just a glimps ( ex. Red melee infantry, blue the artillery etc...)
@@MalleusGaming57 I would love to see what you can do with Ikit Claw and his weaponteams or maybe the Ogres with some monstrous battleformations (pun very much intended)
One of the Dwarfs' big weaknesses is slow movement speeds. While formations like this pretty clearly helped with that, I think it would be worth it to consider taking some faster moving units to serve as 'cavalry' in a sense. Obviously the Dwarf roster lacks anything in it to be used in the exact same manner as cavalry, but taking a couple units of slayers or gyrocopters/bombers wouldn't be a bad idea, at least to me. They give your army some much needed mobility and can *really* mess up big blobs of enemies in the case of the copters and bombers with their bombing runs. And in the case of Slayers, you can quite literally sacrifice them for the sake of your more important units. Take this same battle scenario as in the video. Now add 2 or 3 slayers that can quite literally body block the entrance of the pass, slowing the enemies down as they fight to the death since they're unbreakable and your ranged units have even more time to fire into the horde that is quickly bunching up around the Slayers. This is also thematic for the army. Dwarf Slayers quite literally live to die in battle to regain their lost honor. Sacrificing themselves to slow down a *massive* horde of green skins and give their kin as much time as possible to decimate the enemy, thereby ensuring even fewer can reach the dwarf lines, is perfectly in line with the mind set of the Slayers.
Absolutely, I really wanna love Gyrobombers but they're so micro intensive for me! Bringing in some Slayers though like you say would definitely be awesome. And bro the sheer idea of just jamming up the Orcs with a bunch of Slayers in the pass while the rest of the Dwarfs bombard them is soooo thematic and cinematic!! I absolutely love that idea! Cheers bud!
I had also explored Pike and Shot tactics from renascence era for purpose of TW games. In your formation there is nice kill zone in the middle but all battalions have melee contact in approximately same time. I had hound that Adolfus cross formation is more efficient due to fact that ranged units are able to fire for prolonged period before melee contact. Composition: 1 st battalion - 2 +1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged (armored and melee capable) units and 2 ranged soft units, 2nd and 3rd battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 3 ranged units (one in front and two on sides of the melee unit) 4th battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged units (in front of melee unit) Plus two free units (ranged or ordinary cavalry, hero or art) - something that can intervene in case of encirclement . I prefer a ranged cav. First battalion should take point guard, second and third on the wings and back (second line) and forth behind (first) as a third line. In skirmish phase, first battalion should have additional archer units, that are moved to second and third battalion on melee impact and additional strong melee units for troupe rotation. Remaining two melee capable ranged units are used to protect flanks of point guard melee unit. 2nd and 3rd battalion should do fire focus on enemy units that are flanking 1 st battalion. If something goes behind 1 st battalion (and enter kill zone), it should be picked up by 4th battalion and side ranged units from 2nd and 3rd battalion. In principle, melee (for all units and especially for ranged units) should be at minimum. Path before melee for the enemy should be as long as possible. Fire should be focused, 4 ranged units fire at same enemy at all times. Ration per battalion is 1 melee/3 (+1) ranged or 2 or 3 melee/4 (-2) ranged. Ratio per army 6 melee, 12 ranged + 2 free units. Hope this helps.
I'll have to try this! Playing Belegar with the triple tercio and it's great fun, even with crossbows instead of guns, early game greenskins have no answer to it
you remember that Olio formation I made? I just recently added 2 to the flanks of a single Swedish Brigade and it became some kind of crazy Pike & Shot version of the Zulu Buffalo/Bull Horns. I call it the Scorpion. The Swedish Brigade in the center is the body. Olio on each flank. The claws. 2 reserve (can be anything) + Artillery in the back. The stinger. Though, if you're feeling cheeky, you can ditch the reserve troops for more arty. Riskier but way more fun.
I don't have TW Warhammer so it would be cool to see what it can do in that environment. Scorpion: -5 Melee. 3 defensive in the Body. 2 in the claws to either defend from cavalry or flank the enemy. -5 Ranged. 3 body, 2 claws. - 2 Ranged Cavalry. Each claw. -2 Artillery in the stinger. Preferably ones that arc over troops or are completely mobile and can move around the flanks since a tail is a flexible thing. 1 Lord. This leaves 5 troops that can be anything. Hero/Heroes, reserve, more arty. Dealer's choice. Also, with the Olio Claws on the flanks, the formation isn't set. An Olio has always been a tactical group of 1 melee, 1 range, 1 range cav, and 1 shock cav and not a specific formation so you can shape the claws however you like. Cheers.
Suppose, if you wanted a cheaper version of this, longbeards and miners with blasting charges might serve for frontline and close support. Probably bolt or grudge throwers for arty
@@MalleusGaming57 I can't help but wonder how rangers, particularly Ulthar's Raiders would handle in this kind of formation. Sure, the stalk wouldn't account for too much, but they can largely ignore the line of sight issues Thunderers have, and throwing axes have good AP.
I really like these videos and they inspire different tactics in my armies. I've been formulating one for the Greenskins to try to combine the spirit of Gork and Mork to work in harmony in it's formation. Anyways, I was thinking it might be worth trying formulating ideas for siege battles. Assuming of course there isn't an army of towers and rams or the attrition hasn't obliterated the garrison. I know sieges aren't currently popular but it could be valuable especially if your hand is forced for whatever reason in campaign.
Thanks so much bud! I'm really glad you've been enjoying the channel! That's what I love about Orcs, you can be brutal and cunning or cunning and brutal and it always works out! I've been thinking about Siege battles, it sucks how they're such a mess at times but I'll see what I can figure out for tactics that are more than just the typical cheese
I was seeking a good formation for my Dawi armies, this one is nice but I've maybe put a bit less Ironguys for Hammerers or even Longbeards But anyway with that much firepower no Greenskin can get through ^^
formations like this accurately show the pros and cons of the various pike and shot schools. dutch = more firepower aka more kills but with less troops defending them so it's much harder to avoid getting overrun compared to the tercio. not gonna lie, wasn't sure you were gonna make it this time. especially when they got to your artillery. glad to see 2 defense infantry per formation. 1 is not enough. the ratio of pikes and shot is not an easy one to nail down. with 2 melee instead of one it's starting to look like a natural evolution from the dutch to the swedish formation. there's youtuber called sandhroman history who has videos on each of the 3 p & s formations. including history and function. I'd recommend checking them out also, loving the mix of artillery. I always try to do the same thing. at least 1 anti infantry and 1 anti everything else.
Haha Bello it was pretty touch and go there, I wasn't I was gonna make it either! Once I cover the Swedish system I'd love to do a vid comparing the 3 different styles, that'll be really cool! Thanks for the tip bud! I'll check out Sandhroman sounds really interesting! For once I was actually happy with the artillery, cannons on their own feel a little underwhelming, I love the variety too. Cheers bro!
@@MalleusGaming57 there's nothing quite like the battles that even long after you still ask "How the hell did I win that?" Those are the ones you remember. To this day, my favorite battle I've ever done still makes me ask how 5 years later. good times.
@@MalleusGaming57 it was in Rome 2 Total War. after a pyrric victory that cost 2/3 to 3/4 of my army and all my cavalry, I limped back to my nearest settlement to recover and rebuild. all of my units are down to double digit numbers with quite a few in the single digits immediately after I arrive, my enemy's ally appears from nowhere (fog of war prevented me from seeing their approach) with an army 3-4x the size of mine (1000-1200 vs less than 300) and attacks the town. (small village, no walls). the north side of town splits into a street to the left and a courtyard on the right. I separated my army in 2. light/med infantry on left narrow street. I'd charge them into the army as it enters the town, blobbing the enemy army and preventing it from moving down the street. when my unit wavers, I charge a fresh unit into the blob (my army had low weapon damage but high charge bonus. hits hard but can't survive sustained fights. it was optimized for forest ambushes, not this) on the right, the courtyard had a narrow chokepoint on the bottom before opening up to a larger area. in the larger area I had my hidden heavy infantry on one side and my archers hidden on the other (trees). the enemy moved troops through the chokepoint and were hit with arrows. they turned and tried to go after the archers before being rear charged by my heavies. this created a traffic jam in the chokepoint preventing them from moving forward or dealing with my archers in anyway (they had only a couple javelin skirmishers that had their lines of sight blocked by friendlies and the walls of the chokepoint) their units eventually broke and I moved the heavy infantry through the courtyard and into the back of the blob, hammer and anvil. game over. when they declared the surprise attack, I KNEW I could never win and just thought I'd go down swinging just to spite them. I was beyond stunned when I wiped out the majority of their army while most of my losses were the light/medium infantry I sacrificed to the blob. still my favorite fight.
Your tips are something i am trying in my rome 2 dei campaign with mixed results over my simpler tactic of long line. Flank with cav and skirmishers. I think the irondrakes should have been on the flanks so they could fire down the front of the attackers. So maybe more of a L shaped formation. Where 1 unit holds them, behind are the irondrakes shooting down the front of the main battle line. Would it work better dunno.
Think this would work as Skaven? Would swap in warp fire throwers for close fire support, rattling guns for middle troops, warp lock jazels in place of the troll torpedos, plagueclaw catapults in place of the organ guns and a lightning cannon in place of the cannon. Biggest point of concern would be the stormvermin being able to hold the line long enough =/
Absolutely, Skaven have all the tools necessary to run this, what you've stated would be really good stand ins. The Ratling Gunners slowing things down will really help but yeah the only problem would be the Stormvermin holding the line. Plague Priests may work, using their summons to distract the enemy at a distance would be helpful, or maybe Hellpit Abominations?
Messing around with utilizing allied frontline troops instead of stormvermin. Examples being warriors of chaos choosen or chaos dwarf infernal ironsworn. Limited to 4 allied units per army but significantly bolsters the front line staying power. Chaos dwarf ally’s are also good for their artillery which I favor over plagueclaw catapults but for this kind of formation I currently feel the staying power of the stronger infantry is a bigger marginal increase than the artillery swap. Any consideration towards videos utilizing allied troops? Might be interesting to see what some of the mixed arms races can do with say a wing of Bretonian Knights or chaos dwarf artillery as high elves.
(Psst. This vid isn't in the Total Tactics playlist. Dunno if that's deliberate, like you're working on a new version with the Dawi's new Grudgerakers, but thought I'd let you know) Hmmm... I like the arty park, Dawi need a lot of arty, but I'm trying to think of how to fit in two units of Slayers or two Gyro units without weakening the centre unacceptably. I think the centre could do with swapping the Trollhammers for two more units of normal Thunderers - you lose some short-range punch, but gain better ability to support the wings, and when your centre melee troops get engaged, between Thunderers doing what your Irondrakes did on the wings and Organ Guns pulling some Swedish bs with moving up to just *riddle* whatever made the mistake of engaging the centre with rapid-fire rounds, I think it'd do okay. I'm just not sure how to fit in those more mobile (for Dawi) units to either do a bombing run on cheeky cav (Gyro units) or just run at them screaming (Slayers). Also, torn on *which* Slayers to get. Normal ones have some ranged defence and anti-large, they'd do okay as Dawi counter-cav I think while not dying immediately to enemy ranged, while Giant Slayers get armour-piercing *and* anti-large (as well as slightly better melee stats and health) but will *melt* if anything with a bow or gun looks at them, and Doomseekers lose the anti-large but have significantly better melee stats as well as being able to do pretty damn well against enemy infantry but I'm not sure if they get the normal Slayer's ranged defence back... But they can all sit there being Unbreakable as the rest of your army pounds away at whatever engaged *Slayers* expecting them to have any sense of self-preservation... EDIT: Also, *loving* all the pike and shot vids! But also wouldn't mind something more suited to, say... Lizardmen? Thinking of them being my next campaign, and would like some fun tactics like these for them! Thanks for all the amazing videos!
Haha thanks bro I added it in, must have missed it before! I've got some ideas fermenting for Lizardmen, and yeah I'm totally with you on the Dwarf composition, I feel like a mix of Slayers is good where possible, Giant Slayers if Anti-Cav is what you're trying to patch though, I feel the AP is super necessary for any Heavy Cav. I'm gonna be taking another look at this with the new update for the Dwarfs too, see what can be done to improve this further. Cheers bro and thank you for watching!
I'm not sure how much of an impact the modded orcs had on the battle, but this looked like your entire army got overrun and broken (despite their phyrric victory). The melee troops were too few to hold the line against that many orcs. Just going off of this one battle (with a preferred terrain advantage), I can definitely tell that - had this been a campaign battle - my army would be out of the fight for several turns and unable to engage enemies. For Dwarfs myself, I usually try just going with a gunline of at least 6 thunderers 6 ironbreakers, 2 irondrakes and 2 longbeards cover the flanks of the gun line. I'll keep some reserves in the form of 2 cannons, 1 lord and 1 engineer. Simply put, the tactics are to make a straight line of the thunderers with the ironbreakers just behind. The two lines switch as melee is about to ensue. If the enemy has cavalry (as is often the case) my longbeards will be far enough behind the 2nd line to screen my artillery (if not act as a 3rd 'line' of reserves). If the enemy leaves their flanks exposed, that's when my irondrakes will run around, shoot some flamethrowers, and eventually swap out with the longbeards to press the flanks (assuming they weren't needed in the center to fight off any monsterous creatures. Once the thunderers are out of ammo, or if the enemy pushes through the 1st line, they have the capability of taking on exhausted enemies well enough to generally win the fight. Maybe my tactics for dwarfs are too...mainstream for TWW3 players, but it's the best adaptation from linear warfare from the 17-19th centuries in a style that fit the Dwarf roster. Since I started a Dwarf campaign in TWW3 and found miners with demo charges to be very handy, I'm considering revamping the roster to include them in the 2nd line and forego the switch of the lines (basically doing what I've done previously in ETW, with grenadiers throwing grenades over the heads of my line infantry to help push the enemy off of melee). I hope you have a follow up video for a way to improve Dwarven forces in a way that is more sustainable for campaign play. Looking forward to more Total Tactics!
Yeah I don't think the modded units had too much of an impact, or at least not in a way that would swing the balance over to the Greenskins. I will say that when I was setting this up I thought the second army would be coming in as reinforcements, so I'd have a few minutes to soften up the one army first. The fact that both deployed and attacked at once really threw a wrench in that plan! Considering that, I was just happy to not lose haha It's funny you bring up linear warfare, I'm looking into those tactics now and how to make use of them, hopefully Dwarfs will be able to make use of them. Cheers brother thank you so much for the advice and for checking my channel out! Definitely have more Total Tactics lined up!
maybe more thunderers instead of Troll torpedoes or maybe crossbow so you can have something they can shoot over units and have a little bit more range
Yeah those are definitely good ideas to try out, I'm not sure exactly how effective the Troll Torpedos were. They did damage but yeah potentially more Thunderers would have better output
@@MalleusGaming57 the main problem with the troll torpedoes is they're basically a budget version cannon so the only good to counteract like the big Golem thing but they do have that place
since you're fighting ai, is there a formation just for braindead enemies? they're just going to run at you so maybe a funnel of some sort akin to chevron style formations. something that might be obvious to a human but confusing to an ai. some sort of meat grinder. like the calvalry diamond but more maneuverable.
That'll be something really cool I'll try and figure out! Perhaps something like a weakened center so you can pincer in with your flanks. Gonna have to do some science! Cheers bro!
This one felt like something right out of Warhammer. Loved it. Especially the fact that a bare handful of Dawi make it to see a new dawn! Grudge AVENGED.
Haha a few brave Dawi holding back an unstoppable tide of angry Urk filth? Can't get any more classic than that! Glad you enjoyed the video bro! Khazukan khazukit ha!
I know you didn’t make this video just for me - but also thanks for making this video specifically for me. Love these formation and tactics videos!
Lmao you are so very welcome bro! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Malleus! I really appreciate these tactics videos, I feel most of my battles are just line up the infantry as meat shield and let ranged units fire in from behind. Works great with Elves and archers but I struggle with gunpowder units.
Thanks for watching bro! I'm glad you've been enjoying these, that's part of the reason I wanted to look into these tactics as well. A lot of the time I'd just do the typical 2 line checkerboard set up and wanted to try and see what other stuff would work. Cheers bud!
This was definitely me. I wanted to try the chaos dwarf army out, but never used gun powder units before. If I wasn't dealing with line of sight issues, I was murdering my own front line. This channel has helped me solve those problems.
ive never seen irondrake flamethrowers used so beautifully
I have to say the idea of using real life battle tactics in the strategy game is awsome.
I tried the Dutch Reform Pike & Shoot from your video and it was very easy to play.
Isn’t it?! Haha at the very least it lets you have some more variety in all the different battles, glad you’ve been enjoying them and that they worked out for you bro!
Great video as always, oh and...
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE ?
Thanks a lot bud! Haha ROCK AND STONE BROTHA!
Rock and Stone! oT
For Karl !
Rock and Stone! Where's Molly when you need her?
Excellent format, good stuff, thanks for cinematic + tactical view
Cheers bro thanks so much glad you enjoyed it!
Yeah, Dwarves have it tough, without any cav or fast units to guard the flank. You really have to just box it up, because you can't adjust quickly to flanking maneuvers. I think in a case like this where you are really outnumbered, it is always gonna be a brutal battle. But any one you walk away from is a win.
I think skirmish cav is really useful for baiting and distracting any flanking force. But only in open maps where they have room to run. If it's a small map or they get caught, they are toast.
It ain't easy being a Dawi lmao one thing though is that the allied recruitment system now can really really help them out by letting them get some cavalry. You're totally right though, fancy tactics can only get you so far sometimes haha. That's a really good idea with using skirmish cav for distracting and luring away enemy forces! Cheers bro!
Definitely think you should make some mod showcase videos. A ‘ultimate campaign’ with the best unit, settlement, faction, graphic, etc. mods for each race would be awesome!
Ohhh that'd be super cool! Definitely gonna look into that cheers bro!
When I play as Kislev, my ally draws Flamedrake units always get my infantry caught in the crossfire no matter when I put them except right in front of main line. Melts them just as fast as enemy if not more. Plus as to how to deal with clumped up units, if they are charging speed debuff plus aoe is always a good idea. A runesmith speed debuff plus firedrakes make great combo
I wonder if they're causing more friendly fire because the Kislev units are taller than they are so they get in the way more easily? I know Dwarfs can shoot over each other more easily when fighting against the more regular sized factions so having some tall Manlings in the way probably is causing them some issues
Awesome videos, just one suggestion when you show the formation use different colors for different roles, instead of all blue and just changing the symbol, it would be much easier to understand the formation with just a glimps ( ex. Red melee infantry, blue the artillery etc...)
Cheers bro thanks for the suggestion! I was trying to match up with faction colours but colour coordinating seems like a good way to go
Great vid, mate! I really enjoy your analysis of the battle and the unfolding chaos^^
Ever considered to "Lets play" a campaign?
Thanks so much bud! Glad you enjoyed that, I'm definitely planning on doing some campaigns soon, any in particular you'd be interested in seeing?
@@MalleusGaming57 I would love to see what you can do with Ikit Claw and his weaponteams or maybe the Ogres with some monstrous battleformations (pun very much intended)
One of the Dwarfs' big weaknesses is slow movement speeds. While formations like this pretty clearly helped with that, I think it would be worth it to consider taking some faster moving units to serve as 'cavalry' in a sense. Obviously the Dwarf roster lacks anything in it to be used in the exact same manner as cavalry, but taking a couple units of slayers or gyrocopters/bombers wouldn't be a bad idea, at least to me. They give your army some much needed mobility and can *really* mess up big blobs of enemies in the case of the copters and bombers with their bombing runs.
And in the case of Slayers, you can quite literally sacrifice them for the sake of your more important units. Take this same battle scenario as in the video. Now add 2 or 3 slayers that can quite literally body block the entrance of the pass, slowing the enemies down as they fight to the death since they're unbreakable and your ranged units have even more time to fire into the horde that is quickly bunching up around the Slayers. This is also thematic for the army. Dwarf Slayers quite literally live to die in battle to regain their lost honor. Sacrificing themselves to slow down a *massive* horde of green skins and give their kin as much time as possible to decimate the enemy, thereby ensuring even fewer can reach the dwarf lines, is perfectly in line with the mind set of the Slayers.
Absolutely, I really wanna love Gyrobombers but they're so micro intensive for me! Bringing in some Slayers though like you say would definitely be awesome. And bro the sheer idea of just jamming up the Orcs with a bunch of Slayers in the pass while the rest of the Dwarfs bombard them is soooo thematic and cinematic!! I absolutely love that idea! Cheers bud!
@@MalleusGaming57 cheers!
I had also explored Pike and Shot tactics from renascence era for purpose of TW games. In your formation there is nice kill zone in the middle but all battalions have melee contact in approximately same time. I had hound that Adolfus cross formation is more efficient due to fact that ranged units are able to fire for prolonged period before melee contact.
Composition:
1 st battalion - 2 +1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged (armored and melee capable) units and 2 ranged soft units,
2nd and 3rd battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 3 ranged units (one in front and two on sides of the melee unit)
4th battalion - 1 strong melee (armored units), 2 ranged units (in front of melee unit)
Plus two free units (ranged or ordinary cavalry, hero or art) - something that can intervene in case of encirclement . I prefer a ranged cav.
First battalion should take point guard, second and third on the wings and back (second line) and forth behind (first) as a third line.
In skirmish phase, first battalion should have additional archer units, that are moved to second and third battalion on melee impact and additional strong melee units for troupe rotation. Remaining two melee capable ranged units are used to protect flanks of point guard melee unit.
2nd and 3rd battalion should do fire focus on enemy units that are flanking 1 st battalion. If something goes behind 1 st battalion (and enter kill zone), it should be picked up by 4th battalion and side ranged units from 2nd and 3rd battalion.
In principle, melee (for all units and especially for ranged units) should be at minimum.
Path before melee for the enemy should be as long as possible.
Fire should be focused, 4 ranged units fire at same enemy at all times.
Ration per battalion is 1 melee/3 (+1) ranged or 2 or 3 melee/4 (-2) ranged.
Ratio per army 6 melee, 12 ranged + 2 free units.
Hope this helps.
I'll have to try this! Playing Belegar with the triple tercio and it's great fun, even with crossbows instead of guns, early game greenskins have no answer to it
YESSS!! Haha that's awesome nice job bro! Dreng the Urks!
you remember that Olio formation I made? I just recently added 2 to the flanks of a single Swedish Brigade and it became some kind of crazy Pike & Shot version of the Zulu Buffalo/Bull Horns.
I call it the Scorpion.
The Swedish Brigade in the center is the body.
Olio on each flank. The claws.
2 reserve (can be anything) + Artillery in the back. The stinger.
Though, if you're feeling cheeky, you can ditch the reserve troops for more arty. Riskier but way more fun.
Oooo a Scorpion Formation? That sounds epic! Cheers Bello I'll have to look into that!
I don't have TW Warhammer so it would be cool to see what it can do in that environment.
Scorpion:
-5 Melee. 3 defensive in the Body. 2 in the claws to either defend from cavalry or flank the enemy.
-5 Ranged. 3 body, 2 claws.
- 2 Ranged Cavalry. Each claw.
-2 Artillery in the stinger. Preferably ones that arc over troops or are completely mobile and can move around the flanks since a tail is a flexible thing.
1 Lord.
This leaves 5 troops that can be anything. Hero/Heroes, reserve, more arty. Dealer's choice.
Also, with the Olio Claws on the flanks, the formation isn't set. An Olio has always been a tactical group of 1 melee, 1 range, 1 range cav, and 1 shock cav and not a specific formation so you can shape the claws however you like.
Cheers.
This be going into the book for so many lost to the urk.
Not willing to do whatever it takes to slay the Urk? THAT'S GOING IN THE BOOK!
@@MalleusGaming57 every dwarf killed goes into the book of grudges to be avenged. That is in lore
Suppose, if you wanted a cheaper version of this, longbeards and miners with blasting charges might serve for frontline and close support. Probably bolt or grudge throwers for arty
Ooo that would definitely work well as an Early Game version of this! I love it I'll have to keep that in mind for future campaigns
@@MalleusGaming57 I can't help but wonder how rangers, particularly Ulthar's Raiders would handle in this kind of formation.
Sure, the stalk wouldn't account for too much, but they can largely ignore the line of sight issues Thunderers have, and throwing axes have good AP.
Miners are too squishy to be front line in this situation, dwarf warriors would be probably better, you dont need those satchel charges.
I really like these videos and they inspire different tactics in my armies. I've been formulating one for the Greenskins to try to combine the spirit of Gork and Mork to work in harmony in it's formation. Anyways, I was thinking it might be worth trying formulating ideas for siege battles. Assuming of course there isn't an army of towers and rams or the attrition hasn't obliterated the garrison. I know sieges aren't currently popular but it could be valuable especially if your hand is forced for whatever reason in campaign.
Thanks so much bud! I'm really glad you've been enjoying the channel! That's what I love about Orcs, you can be brutal and cunning or cunning and brutal and it always works out! I've been thinking about Siege battles, it sucks how they're such a mess at times but I'll see what I can figure out for tactics that are more than just the typical cheese
I was seeking a good formation for my Dawi armies, this one is nice but I've maybe put a bit less Ironguys for Hammerers or even Longbeards
But anyway with that much firepower no Greenskin can get through ^^
Yeah I think some Hammerers would be great in this, especially for a little counterpunch. Cheers bro!
formations like this accurately show the pros and cons of the various pike and shot schools. dutch = more firepower aka more kills but with less troops defending them so it's much harder to avoid getting overrun compared to the tercio. not gonna lie, wasn't sure you were gonna make it this time. especially when they got to your artillery.
glad to see 2 defense infantry per formation. 1 is not enough. the ratio of pikes and shot is not an easy one to nail down. with 2 melee instead of one it's starting to look like a natural evolution from the dutch to the swedish formation.
there's youtuber called sandhroman history who has videos on each of the 3 p & s formations. including history and function. I'd recommend checking them out
also, loving the mix of artillery. I always try to do the same thing. at least 1 anti infantry and 1 anti everything else.
Haha Bello it was pretty touch and go there, I wasn't I was gonna make it either! Once I cover the Swedish system I'd love to do a vid comparing the 3 different styles, that'll be really cool! Thanks for the tip bud! I'll check out Sandhroman sounds really interesting! For once I was actually happy with the artillery, cannons on their own feel a little underwhelming, I love the variety too. Cheers bro!
@@MalleusGaming57 there's nothing quite like the battles that even long after you still ask "How the hell did I win that?" Those are the ones you remember.
To this day, my favorite battle I've ever done still makes me ask how 5 years later. good times.
@@bello9740 Bro ain’t that the truth! What happened in your battle, sounds epic
@@MalleusGaming57 it was in Rome 2 Total War. after a pyrric victory that cost 2/3 to 3/4 of my army and all my cavalry, I limped back to my nearest settlement to recover and rebuild. all of my units are down to double digit numbers with quite a few in the single digits
immediately after I arrive, my enemy's ally appears from nowhere (fog of war prevented me from seeing their approach) with an army 3-4x the size of mine (1000-1200 vs less than 300) and attacks the town. (small village, no walls).
the north side of town splits into a street to the left and a courtyard on the right.
I separated my army in 2. light/med infantry on left narrow street. I'd charge them into the army as it enters the town, blobbing the enemy army and preventing it from moving down the street. when my unit wavers, I charge a fresh unit into the blob (my army had low weapon damage but high charge bonus. hits hard but can't survive sustained fights. it was optimized for forest ambushes, not this)
on the right, the courtyard had a narrow chokepoint on the bottom before opening up to a larger area. in the larger area I had my hidden heavy infantry on one side and my archers hidden on the other (trees). the enemy moved troops through the chokepoint and were hit with arrows. they turned and tried to go after the archers before being rear charged by my heavies. this created a traffic jam in the chokepoint preventing them from moving forward or dealing with my archers in anyway (they had only a couple javelin skirmishers that had their lines of sight blocked by friendlies and the walls of the chokepoint) their units eventually broke and I moved the heavy infantry through the courtyard and into the back of the blob, hammer and anvil. game over.
when they declared the surprise attack, I KNEW I could never win and just thought I'd go down swinging just to spite them. I was beyond stunned when I wiped out the majority of their army while most of my losses were the light/medium infantry I sacrificed to the blob.
still my favorite fight.
Malleus: Those Rock Idols, literally made of rocks and orks poo.
Me: Wait, what?!
Lmfao the more you know!
@@MalleusGaming57 I thought it was made mostly from grot remains and orks snots. Didn't expect it to be glued together with Ork feces 😂.
Your tips are something i am trying in my rome 2 dei campaign with mixed results over my simpler tactic of long line. Flank with cav and skirmishers.
I think the irondrakes should have been on the flanks so they could fire down the front of the attackers. So maybe more of a L shaped formation. Where 1 unit holds them, behind are the irondrakes shooting down the front of the main battle line. Would it work better dunno.
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?!
Think this would work as Skaven? Would swap in warp fire throwers for close fire support, rattling guns for middle troops, warp lock jazels in place of the troll torpedos, plagueclaw catapults in place of the organ guns and a lightning cannon in place of the cannon. Biggest point of concern would be the stormvermin being able to hold the line long enough =/
Absolutely, Skaven have all the tools necessary to run this, what you've stated would be really good stand ins. The Ratling Gunners slowing things down will really help but yeah the only problem would be the Stormvermin holding the line. Plague Priests may work, using their summons to distract the enemy at a distance would be helpful, or maybe Hellpit Abominations?
Messing around with utilizing allied frontline troops instead of stormvermin. Examples being warriors of chaos choosen or chaos dwarf infernal ironsworn. Limited to 4 allied units per army but significantly bolsters the front line staying power. Chaos dwarf ally’s are also good for their artillery which I favor over plagueclaw catapults but for this kind of formation I currently feel the staying power of the stronger infantry is a bigger marginal increase than the artillery swap.
Any consideration towards videos utilizing allied troops? Might be interesting to see what some of the mixed arms races can do with say a wing of Bretonian Knights or chaos dwarf artillery as high elves.
(Psst. This vid isn't in the Total Tactics playlist. Dunno if that's deliberate, like you're working on a new version with the Dawi's new Grudgerakers, but thought I'd let you know)
Hmmm... I like the arty park, Dawi need a lot of arty, but I'm trying to think of how to fit in two units of Slayers or two Gyro units without weakening the centre unacceptably. I think the centre could do with swapping the Trollhammers for two more units of normal Thunderers - you lose some short-range punch, but gain better ability to support the wings, and when your centre melee troops get engaged, between Thunderers doing what your Irondrakes did on the wings and Organ Guns pulling some Swedish bs with moving up to just *riddle* whatever made the mistake of engaging the centre with rapid-fire rounds, I think it'd do okay.
I'm just not sure how to fit in those more mobile (for Dawi) units to either do a bombing run on cheeky cav (Gyro units) or just run at them screaming (Slayers). Also, torn on *which* Slayers to get. Normal ones have some ranged defence and anti-large, they'd do okay as Dawi counter-cav I think while not dying immediately to enemy ranged, while Giant Slayers get armour-piercing *and* anti-large (as well as slightly better melee stats and health) but will *melt* if anything with a bow or gun looks at them, and Doomseekers lose the anti-large but have significantly better melee stats as well as being able to do pretty damn well against enemy infantry but I'm not sure if they get the normal Slayer's ranged defence back... But they can all sit there being Unbreakable as the rest of your army pounds away at whatever engaged *Slayers* expecting them to have any sense of self-preservation...
EDIT: Also, *loving* all the pike and shot vids! But also wouldn't mind something more suited to, say... Lizardmen? Thinking of them being my next campaign, and would like some fun tactics like these for them! Thanks for all the amazing videos!
Haha thanks bro I added it in, must have missed it before! I've got some ideas fermenting for Lizardmen, and yeah I'm totally with you on the Dwarf composition, I feel like a mix of Slayers is good where possible, Giant Slayers if Anti-Cav is what you're trying to patch though, I feel the AP is super necessary for any Heavy Cav. I'm gonna be taking another look at this with the new update for the Dwarfs too, see what can be done to improve this further. Cheers bro and thank you for watching!
Do a pike and shot formation video with cataphs southern realms mod
F*** good very immersive
Thanks buddy! Some classic Warhammering right there haha Cheers!
good stuff dude
Appreciate it bud! Cheers!
can we do these with more unorthodox factions? like woodelves, orcs or undead.
I have more formations in mind for other factions for future vids, right now just focusing on Gunpowder armies
I'm not sure how much of an impact the modded orcs had on the battle, but this looked like your entire army got overrun and broken (despite their phyrric victory). The melee troops were too few to hold the line against that many orcs. Just going off of this one battle (with a preferred terrain advantage), I can definitely tell that - had this been a campaign battle - my army would be out of the fight for several turns and unable to engage enemies.
For Dwarfs myself, I usually try just going with a gunline of at least 6 thunderers 6 ironbreakers, 2 irondrakes and 2 longbeards cover the flanks of the gun line. I'll keep some reserves in the form of 2 cannons, 1 lord and 1 engineer. Simply put, the tactics are to make a straight line of the thunderers with the ironbreakers just behind. The two lines switch as melee is about to ensue. If the enemy has cavalry (as is often the case) my longbeards will be far enough behind the 2nd line to screen my artillery (if not act as a 3rd 'line' of reserves). If the enemy leaves their flanks exposed, that's when my irondrakes will run around, shoot some flamethrowers, and eventually swap out with the longbeards to press the flanks (assuming they weren't needed in the center to fight off any monsterous creatures. Once the thunderers are out of ammo, or if the enemy pushes through the 1st line, they have the capability of taking on exhausted enemies well enough to generally win the fight.
Maybe my tactics for dwarfs are too...mainstream for TWW3 players, but it's the best adaptation from linear warfare from the 17-19th centuries in a style that fit the Dwarf roster. Since I started a Dwarf campaign in TWW3 and found miners with demo charges to be very handy, I'm considering revamping the roster to include them in the 2nd line and forego the switch of the lines (basically doing what I've done previously in ETW, with grenadiers throwing grenades over the heads of my line infantry to help push the enemy off of melee). I hope you have a follow up video for a way to improve Dwarven forces in a way that is more sustainable for campaign play. Looking forward to more Total Tactics!
Yeah I don't think the modded units had too much of an impact, or at least not in a way that would swing the balance over to the Greenskins. I will say that when I was setting this up I thought the second army would be coming in as reinforcements, so I'd have a few minutes to soften up the one army first. The fact that both deployed and attacked at once really threw a wrench in that plan! Considering that, I was just happy to not lose haha
It's funny you bring up linear warfare, I'm looking into those tactics now and how to make use of them, hopefully Dwarfs will be able to make use of them. Cheers brother thank you so much for the advice and for checking my channel out! Definitely have more Total Tactics lined up!
What PC specs are you running? This is sooo smooth even with the crazy amount of war happening.
I've got an AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor, 32 GB Ram, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 TI
For the algorithm!
maybe more thunderers instead of Troll torpedoes or maybe crossbow so you can have something they can shoot over units and have a little bit more range
Yeah those are definitely good ideas to try out, I'm not sure exactly how effective the Troll Torpedos were. They did damage but yeah potentially more Thunderers would have better output
@@MalleusGaming57 the main problem with the troll torpedoes is they're basically a budget version cannon so the only good to counteract like the big Golem thing but they do have that place
since you're fighting ai, is there a formation just for braindead enemies? they're just going to run at you so maybe a funnel of some sort akin to chevron style formations. something that might be obvious to a human but confusing to an ai. some sort of meat grinder. like the calvalry diamond but more maneuverable.
That'll be something really cool I'll try and figure out! Perhaps something like a weakened center so you can pincer in with your flanks. Gonna have to do some science! Cheers bro!
Try byzantine tactics with bretonia next time, see where that takes you.
Ooo that sounds like it'd be cool! I'll definitely check it out
@@MalleusGaming57try tactics of the komenes restoration.
Can i get a ROCK AND STONE BROTHERS
ROCK AND STONE!!!
what map is this?
Don’t remember off the top of my head but I said the map before the battle starts