Ultra Violent "Hatred" Trailer Reaction and Discussion! - Show and Trailer October 2014!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2014
- Show and Trailer October 2014 PLAYLIST: bit.ly/10OUYvt
Bitscreed's Hatred Trailer Recut: bit.ly/1qoahRF
Music in this episode: "Disconnected" by Pegboard Nerds
Provided by Monstercat: / monstercat - เกม
I feel like I'm the only one looking forward to playing this because of how immoral and sadistic it is, also gameplay wise it sounds fun.
I like doing horrible, messed up things to people in video games that I would never want to do in real life and Hatred sounds right up my alley.
You are not alone.
I, too, would like to explore the subject. Some people play games as an escape, and some play it to experience new experiences. There's nothing wrong with that, I think.
Kurt Finlayson"Saying that comment with that face, make it seems like you will enjoy the ride."
You know what they say:
"The ride never ends."
Wait for the mods.. with elders, mothers... you get it .)
I think what makes this game more disturbing is how grim and "realistic" it is. The tone and like you pointed out, the people pleading for mercy. I mean shit, sometimes I felt bad killing people in The Last of Us, but even in those situations it was a "kill or be killed" situation. This is just killing innocents.
Just like in GTA.
Miss Cakelyn Are you serious? Realistic voice acting? The fucking writing and voice acting is ridiculous.
Its killing Polygons, not real people..
triedge763 Yeah but in GTA you aren't FORCED to kill people walking down the street.You do that if you want to.
***** Oh okay, I guess what you do in the story is better.
I personally have no problem with this game existing. Postal came out and unleashed a terrible game with the exact same premise and the only thing to come from it was a full on franchise. People's individual "moral quandaries" shouldn't stop something from existing.
I dislike using the term "art" to describe anything, but as long as people are proclaiming gaming to be an artform, then there should be more devs trying to push towards the edge of what is acceptable. People's personal feelings be damned. They're their own police. If some sicko uses this as inspiration, that person was sick to begin with and was just waiting for a scapegoat (ie: Marlyn Manson, Eminem, etc).
"Why would we want to GIVE mentally unstable people a scapegoat..."
Because it punishes those without mental illnesses a chance to experience the product (I recall people thinking that Doom caused the Columbine shootings and Marilyn Manson causing suicide rates.). Anything can be used as a scapegoat (Catcher in the Rye was banned for a long time, despite it being a really boring book), and I don't think it's fair to blame any forms of media.
"It not only makes games less credible as a legitimate form of media..."
I always question people that say this, and I apologize if it sounds harsh. WHO are we trying to impress? Video games have done fairly well without the "approval" of those that don't appreciate it. I'm perfectly fine with the more ignorant masses still thinking that video games "are for kids," but that's me.
"but it also inhibits our ability as a society to properly understand mental illness, and to perceive what actually causes violent actions and desires"
That's an actual problem. It won't just be the "ill," but possibly general news publications trying to demonize video games (nothing new honestly) followed up by more money being wasted on studies (that I sworn have existed at this point) and... full circle. It'll be the mid-90s again for a bit. That'll be annoying.
Many people find nudity incredibly disturbing. Do you thing the nude arts done during the Renaissance are not considered arts? Same thing what is being said about some games.
I'll buy this game if a Tommy Wiseau mod comes out.
During the guy's monologue I kept waiting for the punchline because it felt like the build up to a joke mocking that angsty brooding violent attitude. And then it turned out to be completely serious.
Am I the only who is not bothered by the violence? And actually want to play it? ._.
***** me to , i want to kill some people :B
FBI please flag this guy
i hope they put co-op
***** Or you know, someone who just enjoys violent games?
Honestly I think the biggest reason gamers are up in arms about this is that it makes us all look bad. You know that when the news media gets a hold of this they're going to act as if this is the be-all-end-all of videogames, and the only way to defend against it is to put up a united front of "no, we're not okay with this either". They are afraid any attempt at critical analysis or intelligent debate would be seen as a sign of weakness by those people who have already decided their opinions and drawn their conclusions long before the argument even started.
eh, anybody who focuses too much on imagery should't be in gaming.. i mean you are here to play video games right?
Not every gamer is like that, only the ones at denial that play gta5.
Yeah they actually tried a debate when San Andreas came out i think and then Fox got kicked in the ass by someone from Rockstar.
For me the biggest thing that separates GTA and this game is the fact in GTA everybody in that world is meant to be the worst person possible and that its so colorful crazy and unrealistic this game has people who are generally innocent you haven't seen or heard them do anything wrong and your not led to believe they did do something wrong and the straight up violence and horribleness it presents disturbs me greatly and I would very much be okay if you guys didn't cover this game on the show because I don't want you guys to be associated with such a game.
I agree. I would feel ashamed for playing this game myself. It only fuels the fire in the stupid "video games are too violent" controversy and I don't like it.
triedge763 It's not about being politically correct. Hatred doesn't look fun, it looks depressing, like what a real mass murderer would do. The game looks closer to something that could happen in real life as opposed to games like GTA. Like I said, I would feel extremely uncomfortable playing a game like Hatred.
triedge763 That response has nothing to do with my argument.
Who died and made you boss? If they want to play this game they'll play it, you don't like it then get out
If I may be so bold as to offering a dissenting opinion... Excuse the length of this response, but I cannot really compile this sentiment in a shorter manner without sacrificing clarity of intent.
To be quite frank, I find the straight up violence and horribleness it presents thoroughly disturbing as well - but I would greatly like to see what the end product is like, and specifically what Fraser thinks of what that end product ends up being.
Even more specifically, I'm interested to see the presentation in the very vein you discuss - in GTA or the like, the game is very stylized and crazy/unrealistic, and thus really allows the player to remove themselves from the experience via that avenue.
I want to see if these guys can create a game that doesn't do that, that keeps you right in that fucked up moment and doesn't pull punches through stylization or 'craziness' to eliminate the realism, that tackles the concept of misanthropy with some degree of depth, forcing you to take on a role that's much more difficult than it might be in a more 'zaney' presentation, and generates a powerful emotional response in the player/viewer as a result.
That said, some statements on behalf of the devs suggest there may be more to this than simply rampant killing, which I would wager suggests some degree of intent towards sympathy with the protagonist as associated with their targets.
Think of it like GTA, but its not over-the-top zaney - its harsh, and real, and (while you're certainly able, and urged by the in-character motivations of the protagonist, to kill innocents, who will respond in ways designed to illicit an emotional response as the player) there are very shitty people in the world, who you (as the character) have decided to attempt to go about eliminating specifically (along with all the perfectly innocent people, of course - who the character you're playing hates as-much as they do the person you as the player could sympathize with targeting).
May not be for everyone, may turn out to be a steaming pile of shit, but a one-minute trailer isn't enough to certify this concept as unacceptable or worthy of extreme disdain, IMHO at least.
Further, having read a recent interview with the creative director (apgnation.com/archives/2014/11/06/9552/interview-hatred-creative-director-jaroslaw-zielinski), who may or may not be associated with some really questionable groups/organizations (not that such actually matters at all to me with regards to the quality of the game - though I could understand some not wishing to offer support through sales if they vehemently disagree with the ideology that individual has expressed support of, even if I wonder how many other gamedevs might be guilty of similar activity if their social feeds were monitored in-depth with intent to discredit them), it seems the devs of this game are well-aware this can very easily - will very easily - disappear into the anals of history as nothing more than low-quality drek from some random European scumbags, thus effectively ending their careers, if it doesn't exhibit something different and - even if thoroughly disturbing on some level - worthwhile on behalf of the player.
first time i saw this trailer: 2003-2005 called, they want their hot-topic-angst back
it could be because i'm decensitized, but what they showed in the trailer doesn't even seem that violent. the pleading is pretty unnerving though
Yeah this game isn't really all that gory.. the head explodes but it's just them removing the head model and spraying blood, there's no part of the head left etc. but the pleading is what kinda makes me question it since it makes the characters more human.
it doesn't really make them human to me (which is really messed up when i say it out loud) i'm just hoping there's no rape and/or child murdering scenes
***** From what I just saw, child murdering is a definite possibility. Maybe not the rape but the pleading is more disturbing to me than any rape scene I've seen.
i've only played postal 2 and as comedically horrifying as that sounds i'm more referring to like hi stabbing children repeatedly in the chest or carving them open and crushing their organs with his bare hands or slicing ther throats all while htey're screaming and crying for mommy. and that's to assume they're goiong to stay with the most realistic of grizzley violence and not just stuff like taking their intestines and strangling them with it or blowing off the bottom half of their bodies with a shotgun and watching them try to crawl away as hteir organs fall out of their bottom halves crying abotu how they don't want to die and screaming "mommy it hurts"
The pleading makes me cringe
This was a nice, intelligent conversations about violence in video games. It was an interesting feeling to see a Video Game action trailer that actually made me say 'Holy S**t' and not in a good way; like i haven't lost my humanity just yet.
another game for "the bad kids" to own. does anyone besides brooding teenagers actually like this stuff?
also now that i think on it, it might be that games like gta v, like mortal kombat, like skyrim where you have to or you can choose to do some terrible things isn't as shocking as this because they have a character, Trevor is killing all the Hipsters or Sonya is ripping the head off of another guy or Bigglesbutts your created character is killing an old woman in cold blood. In Hatred because there isn't really a character and he has no face you are kind of pulled into him more, you see yourself actually doing these things and that is what kinda wrenches the gut.
sgc47 The thing that makes GTA's violence okay is that it's a commentary on today's world and the tole it takes on a person's mind. The game is trying to say that the world works a certain way -- people are socially trained to become malicious, heartless assholes, and oppressed minorities like Franklin or CJ (from San Andreas) are basically predestined to become criminals, even though they try not to.
Mortal Kombat's pretty gratuitous, but it's a one-on-one fight to the death. Whatever. At least you're not murdering innocent people.
Games like this have no excuse. This is just the slaughtering of random civilians with no purpose but to fulfill some sick bastards' twisted power fantasies. At least in GTA the player had the CHOICE over weather or not they wanted to murder helpless bystanders. This game literally obligates you to partake in mass murder. Hell, it's the entire point of the game! That's just fucked up.
People that produce trash like this need to be put out of their misery. I honestly thought that the games industry was starting to collectively take a slight step forward, in terms of intellect and sophistication. I guess I was wrong.
Christmas came early for FOX news
Now, THIS is the kind of social critique that I wanna hear about video games. Anita Sarkeesian couldn't even touch this level of cognition and analysis displayed here..
Well that's because that's not the point of her videos. She specifically set out to create a very simple "Feminism 101" video series, some people don't like that and find it too simple which is cool.
And just to say, I've watched her streams on Twitch and she is perfectly capable of having a much deeper conversation about this stuff when she wants to.
oidisco I'm puzzled by your response. Did you not see the Kickstarter she made for "Tropes vs. Women in Video Games" over 2 years ago? Have you not seen here rise to fame that has recently taken her to TV spots like the Colbert Report? She's doing talks around the US critiquing the people who hate the videos from that series. Her Master's Dissertation is on topics related to this. I think this is enough evidence to assert that she does want to make a social critique about not only men, but gamers, especially.
Also, I'm intrigued by your statement on her having a Twitch channel. I would like to see the games that she's played and what her response was when she was playing them. But, then you say, "she is perfectly capable of having a much deeper conversation [...] when she wants to." I think if you're a supporter of her, you might defend her by claiming she is an authoritarian on gaming critique. So, do you think she's weak on this topic?
If so, look at VGA. In this video, they look at the trailer and they make some subjective comments. They delve deeper and the exalt both perspectives: the game is "good" or the game is "bad." This is the kind of criticism that's needed for gaming. I might even add, that Fraser and Co, are more entitled to make their opinions because THEY ACTUALLY PLAY GAMES. If Anita were to regularly stream games she critiqued on Twitch, I might be able to trust her opinion more. But, making a "video series" is not enough these days... One can argue, otherwise. But, I honestly feel that Anita's opinions on media are not trustworthy whatsoever.
I should probably point out that I'm one of her moderators on Twitch, so I'm definitely a bit biased!
And she's certainly not perfect, her videos are a tad too simplistic for me (but I don't have a problem with it since that's the point) and I disagree with some of the points she has made her videos, but overall I still enjoy what she does and I absolutely believe it's important.
But I'm not sure what her Degree or her interviews has to do with anything regarding her video series. The simple fact is that she intentionally set out to create a very simple, easy to understand series, and that's exactly what she is doing. Watching her videos she put's the focus almost entirely on games, and occasionally the culture of masculinity, She doesn't criticise men or gamers specifically, she criticises problematic aspects of the culture which funnily enough, is the exact same thing some Men's Rights people do.
However the only reason she's been appearing on TV is because of the sheer weight of the attacks and threats against her and many others. It's pretty reasonable really. She never singles out gamers as a whole, only the problematic parts of the gaming community.
As for her Twitch stuff, she started in late July and intended on streaming semi-regularly, but that was put on hold because of all the craziness that's been going on. I mean, I've seen what her chatroom can look like on a good day, and it's not pretty.
Anyway's she's streamed some indie games like Papo & Yo and was planning to do some more mainstream stuff, but as I said those plans are on hold. For now, you should try listening to some podcasts she's been on recently, if you actually want here her talk about games in a more in-depth manner. She's pretty funny too, if that helps.
And as for your final point. Honestly, it doesn't matter if you trust her. The simple fact is that Game developers trust her and have been really influenced by her work. At GDC was given an Ambassador Award, which is something devs vote for. Even the story and characters of The Last of Us were inspired by her series. (look up Neil Druckmann's keynote speech from last year where he talks about it.
oidisco I appreciate your honest response. Although, I guess I should emphasize my stance on Anita's type of critique involving games, gamers, and the gaming community. It's not necessary..
It's enough for me to feel that Anita's work is just one aspect of gaming critique as a whole. But, I feel like we should exalt shows like VGA and reviewer series like the Egoraptor's Sequelitis and the Angry Video Game Nerd series as examples of how much more important it is to deal with gaming design over thematic content. Games are a source of entertainment and not necessarily as a progressive way to control social perceptions on violence, sex, and gender roles.
"Hatred" is a game that can be created and sold to people. And, this is a positive thing. Everyone gets a chance to experience tackling a difficult issue like this without anybody getting physically hurt. Yet, we can likely say that most people will decide to play a game that's game mechanics challenge and immerse them in a way that don't force types of rhetoric into their head. This game seems to lack that choice. So, there isn't a need to worry about games that are supposedly unnecessarily "violent" or "misogynistic." Most people know when a game is fun and immersive versus one that is trying to control their experience. And, we don't need a game that tries to control gender roles..
Godfrey Francesco Oh I agree that shows like VGA and others that discuss game mechanics rather than the more political side of things should be encouraged. I love that stuff, but I don't think it's fair to say that one is more important than the other or that certain type of criticism is unnecessary. There's more than enough room for all types of criticism, and infact we should be encouraging more people like Jim Sterling or Anita who like to engage in criticism that isn't solely about mechanics. If gaming is to grow as an art-form, this kind of thing is really really important! Ofcourse that doesn't mean you have to like Anita's work, but it absolutely has its place in the industry, and as I said before game developers clearly agree on this.
Another thing that's somewhat related, Anita and critics like her aren't trying to force games to engage in certain gender roles or make anyone do anything. Developers are free to ignore her and continue to do whatever they want, and that's great. Anita is well aware of this and perfectly fine with it. She has said many times that she talks about certain aspects of games she finds problematic, she isn't asking developers to stop. All she wants is a little more variety in the games and stories they make, and I think that's something everyone wants.
Hatred is a game that can exist and in many ways that is a good thing (though personally I find it disgusting and not something I will ever play). But what is just as good is that people are just as free to critique this game in a million different ways. And while the vast majority will buy a game based on its mechanics (like me!), there also still exist a lot of people who like to discuss a different side of things, and that to me is a fucking awesome thing. I honestly find it more interesting than critique and discussion of mechanics, since I can very easily judge that stuff for myself. However watching something like the Jimquisition can help me see a game or subject in a different light, and that genuinely excites me more than standard reviews and talk of mechanics and gameplay
I think the most important thing though is that if you (general you) really don't like this, then you never really have to engage with it! Just don't read or watch the types of criticism that don't interest you, and stick with what you like.
I don't think this game should even be questioned, this kind of thing has been done plenty of times before even in game format, especially in movie format, and probably in books, though I can't talk much about that category.
Yes the game is violent, but most games are, I get that the tone and realism make it unnerving to people, but what I hate is the vitriol people are giving this game, and the people who want to play it, yet no one bats an eyelid when someone says that they enjoy the Saw or Final Destination franchises.
Even gamers are getting worried about the image this will bring to gaming to the point of condemning it themselves, but they shouldn't, this isn't new and quite frankly if anyone condemns this game or people who want to play is as assholes, mentally ill, or anything else like that they're just immature and hypocritical.
I can understand if you guys might not want to cover this game on the show, but please don't be put off because of image, or what people might say or accuse you of, there's plenty to be said in your defense.
if it comes out, im willing to bet it will be banned in Australia, even with our 18+ rating system we have now
***** they will try, or come up with some bullshit to have things removed from the game
jayjaybirdsnest thats just it, no one is being forced to play it or buy it
Live2winshaneo yeah but i know of certain people that will play this game who are mentally unstable. just the thought of them playing it gives me the creeps lol.
its fine for existing, its just really creepy and unnerving to me thats all. just my oppinion tho
I don't have a problem with a game like this existing and don't think that it should be banned or outlawed or anything, but I just wonder, what is the point of making it? What was the developers thoughts when he got this idea? If the game was something like at the end of this segment with The Room then I can understand cause its actually funny. But is it just simply "I want to make a really dark, violent, disturbing video game."?
The way I see it it's a "really dark, violent, disturbing video game" that the national news media will latch on to, give the game a ton of exposure, and cause sales of much higher than they would if this were just any other game made by an indie studio. This game has no message, it is a piece of trash that's being made highly controversial in order to sell copies.
It's more. 'I want to make a game with a tiny marketing budget that people will just willing show on TV.'
Mother3pla3r Not where I live... They literally have a segment of a reporter talking about how beautiful the day is.
Arrow Sith Lord oh...
I don't think I'd mind it as much if I didn't know that several of the developers had liked various Polish far-right racist groups on Facebook, and that the game's probably a bit of a fantasy for some of them.
I'm really glad that they touched on the fact that people watch certain movies specifically to feel uncomfortable, and that is exactly the reason I want to play this. The fact that is active rather than passive is just going to make me feel really guilty about it as well, which, weirdly enough, is a plus. It's probably not worth full retail price though, and the monologue at the beginning just made me roll my eyes.
Basically Postal all over again.
I don't mind the violence... just the laziness of the plot.
It's definitely the tone of the game that bothered me more than the actual violence. The footage that made me cringe one minute had me laughing hysterically the next when Wiseau bits were played over it.
Good job guys who made this game. The industry is finally starting to get some respect in other hemispheres of society. But the moment this trailer becomes widespread, the attitude towards games will go back 20 years.
I only really feel as if this game was made to stir reactions and discussions like these, but that's just me.
I've been waiting for another video game controversy. This is sweet. I honestly don't know what to think of this game yet. Is there a story, is there a score, is there some sort of survival to it? I don't know but this is a big deal.
People need to stop condemning video games for being violent and condemn them for bad game design. I'm already sick of seeing people talk about this game. We live in a society that glorifies violence. It's human nature. There have been so many civilizations before us that reveled in bloodsports. Using the "Grand Theft Auto is satire" argument is terrible. There's nothing wrong with this game. People are just hypocrites. Grand Theft Auto, God of War. There are so many examples of violent games, stories, and movies that no one batted an eyelash for but as soon as some developers use a trailer showing off a "violent" video game to get free advertising and publicity everyone loses there minds. Here's an idea: how about people just stop talking about it? You can use this same argument for people who commit violent acts in real life. The media gives it far too much coverage. I feel like the whole point of that trailer is attention seeking and hypocrisy.
We live in a society that glorified violence, but is appalled by sex and nudity.
Murica.
It's just the fact that video games aren't as mainstream as movies yet. Even your great-grandparents have seen different films. So when a flick comes along that contains repulsive content, everyone knows that it doesn't represent the entire medium. With video games, a lot of assumptions are made by those who don't know much about it. The same thing pretty much happens w/ pornography. People tend to generalize it as just a medium to degrade people even though many adult films are recommended by therapists to married couples.
"The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment - we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure. Herecomes our game, which takes no prisoners and makes no excuses. We say ‘yes, it is a game about killing people’ and the only reason of the antagonist doing that sick stuff is his deep-rooted hatred." Here's the explanation Destructive creations (the developers) gave as to why this exists. Take it as you wish, i found it reasonable.
I think the only time I'll ever start to be disturbed by violent video games, is when you can shoot an NPC in the chest and they don't die instantly, and they start to make that death rattle noise.
That's when it'll start to cross lines for me.
A few minutes into this video I felt a novel-length comment tingeling in my finger tips, but during the discussion most of the points I wanted to bring up have at least been touched upon, so I'll leave it at that.
Even when there are no laughs to be had VGA proves to be the best video game show on the net.
Well done,gang!
I'll play the game, if only just for the experience and to see how it makes me feel. And anyways, I've always been a big fan of top-down shooters.
Sounds like fun to me. I always love to do thing in games I would never EVER do in real life.
all i saw in the Hatred trailer was the awesome physics of the ragdolls and the fact that you can detroy a house i love that stuff and i will DEFINITLY play this!
I would be mad too if I had a bus stop right outside my house.
You know what I want to see in this game? It actually being a massive test to see how far will people go in a game to "win" it. Like have it judge you on your body count, but it gives you the options to end the game by commuting suicide in the first minute. Something like that.
Let's put it like this...this game forces you to kill whereas in GTA you kill just because you have the freedom to do it...which one is more fucked up?
I'm actually very interested in this game, for the same reason I read internet comments. I'd love to get into the head of someone who actually hates humanity and wants us gone. I have moments where I hate everyone, but that's because I'm in chronic pain and pretty much everyone does stuff that makes it worse, but I would never want to inflict that pain back on someone. But this character does more than that, and psychologically speaking, it could be interesting to pretend to be that for a few hours. Yes, it's disturbing, and yes, it's reprehensible to actually go out and do those things, but if we keep thinking of these violent murderers as inhuman monsters we'll keep deluding ourselves that the kid next door that we like so much couldn't possibly be the one killing the neighbourhood cats and we'll keep dealing with this shit after it happens rather than helping these people before it gets this far.
Also, comparing this to GTA, I actually find this more morally sound. It's not painting murdering innocent sex workers and police and such as 'funny'. It's actually showing you how horrible your violence actually is. We all sort of know this, but this makes us feel it I think. In Hatred, murder is evil, you just happen to be playing an evil character. In GTA and many other games, murder is hilarious and a completely valid option. Maybe we're so uncomfortable because we've taken violence against innocent NPCs for granted? (I'm not talking enemies that fight back of course, like MK, because they'll kill you too)
Movies like Clockwork Orange have a point in the plot that justifies the violence. This game is violet just for the sake of being violent. It doesn't disturb me, but i don't find any depth in it. Even games like this one need some sort of character developtment.
A good discussion from Fraser and the crew. It's...a tough topic to figure out, especially for me on a personal level. This game is an automatic turnoff to me and certainly isn't a game I'd ever play. I love violent games, I don't think they desensitize me to violence at all, and like Fraser, my reaction to this is kind of pleasing. I'm glad to know I do have a limit, and this is it.
I think it does largely have to do with tone. This is all about hate (it's literally the name of the game, after all), making people suffer because the main character hates them. It's about spreading fear and suffering for as long and as far as you can, and they go so far as to program them begging for their lives in a way that's visceral and real.
Games like The Sims, GTA, Saints Row... Yes, you can starve people to death, beat them to death, run them over to get money from them, but the line between fantasy and reality is always bold and solid. A game like this turns that line into a murky shadow, and somewhere in there is a cliff that drops pretty fucking far. I dig people wanting to toe that line (god knows I have myself), but I really do wonder how solid their footing really is.
It's 11pm for me right now. The pleading for life, especially from the woman ... so many nightmares tonight.
the only way they could have made this game any edgier is if they replaced the mc with shadow the hedgehog, gave him the shades of neo from matrix, decorated his coat and weapons with skulls and gave him a cigarette. i think this was made by a 13 year old who doesn't have many friends.
Don't forget a soundtrack by Nickelback.
better yet, some linkin park
I'm gonna leave a long and rambly post about my personal thoughts on the game here later, but I just want to point out that on the dev's official Facebook page, they wrote, "Spread it on the web! Share it! Bring it everywhere and let the haters hate! (And they will, oh they will...)"
So yeah, they want all publicity. Frankly, if I were you, I'd make this video unlisted. They don't deserve the press.
they already got it, too late the hate is coming..
Fraser, you should've shown the clip of you guys being repulsed by Kratos murdering a helpless slave in GoW3.
***** I think it was a few videos before meeting Aphrodite.
Frasher will you ever play the DarkSouls 2 DLCs?
The problem with Hatred is that it has no story it serves no purpose other then killing innocent people.
While Mortal Kombat for example it's about fighters who knows what they have gotten into. Sure killing innocents in GTA might feel the same in theory but for me GTA is a game where you feel like it's a game all the way through if you get what I mean it's colorful, there's random hookers fat cops etc. WHhle Hatred is just killing innocent people in a black & white environment which just feels wrong.
Because they have said there is no story?
who cares if theirs no story? i mean if that's your reason, then don't buy it. also senseless violence i have no problem with that and especially when it involves "innocent people" rather them being simply just code and pixels.
The gameplay looks fun.
While I am a big gamer, I don't go to conventions like PAX and such, but being massively into Car Audio, I can identify with the entire monologue Fraser gives at the end there, because everything he said about gaming also applies to us. The media only recognizes the negative, not the millions of dollars our industry makes per yer, or the insane amounts of money we raise for charities with shows, but only what people don't want to see. In short, people are lazy, and are more apt to just listen to whatever the news says and go on about their day than to do any actual research on things.
This looks like the kind of gameplay I play evil Cole in Infamous for.
I honestly think the way the camera is also plays a factor. This looks top down so you don't really see too much unless it's an execution kill. This didn't bother me in the slightest because I've already played both Manhunt games which is just about killing people,but with a better story than Hatred.
"Mortal Kombat" is different in that the opponent is also trying to kill you. Which it justifies defending yourself with a similar gory finishing move.
The main gameplay looks like a top-down arcade game. It just looks so over-the-top to be taken seriously.
this game is now rated A for just the violence.
What's more disturbing is the number of things he can fit in his left side magic pocket.
Did you guys know that the novel "A Clockwork Orange" originally had a final chapter in which Alex reforms of his own volition? It was cut in the original NA print, for some reason, and this cut version was the one used as the basis for the film, which ends with Alex returning to his evil ways. Arguably, this version robs the story of any point. It's just an asshole being forced to be good through psychological manipulation, but then breaking free and learning nothing from the experience.
FYI, the book was eventually reprinted overseas with the proper ending intact.
I think the difference between GTA and Hatred is the setting and behavior of the victims. In GTA, there's jokes every 5 minutes and satire of the real world throughout the game. The cops in GTA just send waves at you and basically have no self-preservation. Really, the most self preservation you'll see from any NPC AI is running away screaming. You don't have the option to grab their hair, pull them to the ground, and make them beg before you shoot them in the mouth.
In Hatred however, it's a very grim, brooding atmosphere, and people and police will, presumably, be very realistic in their self preservation instincts, sense the point of the game is to step in the shoes of a mass-shooter. You'll also have many more options of execution other than "shoot them in the back while they run". I don't think it has anything to do with the choice you have weather or not to go on a rampage, but the overall tone and realism in both games.
I think it looks fun and besides that is what rating a game M is for
Yeah IF this game gets released it's going to make front page. Definitely
People are hypocrites...
I do admit I felt a little bad for some of the people killed in Hatred, but it just shows that I'm not a bad person. But yeah, if people don't like it, don't play it.
Wow I'm desensitized. I ate dinner while watching this and didn't shrug or anything.
This is an argument about context and audience, I feel.
It's "fine" to see Noob Saibot rip people in half in Mortal Kombat because of it's setting (we're in a game where humans, demons, and everything in-between fight willingly to the death with fists, weapons, and throwing magic fireballs at each other), and the absurdness of it all makes it seem acceptable because it doesn't take much to tell these event aren't real. It's all set in a (albeit brutal) fantasy world that we can detach ourselves easily from.
In Hatred, it's not-so fine because the context of this game hits so much closer to home for people who actually lived through events where some psychopath who was "fed up with this world", decided to armor up and go shoot random people because of personal issues "nobody could possibly understand". These are things, and events that are far too closely tied to reality, and creating that detachment to disassociate yourself from what's going on in the game will take a great deal more effort that most people aren't willing to muster up for something that was supposed to be called a "game".
I agree with Fraser that this game needs to exist (for various reasons), but I also agree with Becky in that I don't want to associate myself with this game (also for various reasons). I'm not sure what went through the minds of the developers, and frankly, I'm not that interested; but what I am sure about is this game will not be in my gaming library.
While I'm not saying this game shouldn't exist, the idea of the type of person who would enjoy this game and identify with its protagonist scares the shit out of me.
What I can't wait for is the feminists not attacking this game for not having a female protagonist.
greatest recut
My 2 cents, in games if an enemy is trying to kill me, I don't feel bad about killing them. If they're really horrible people, I don't feel bad about killing them. If they're innocent bystanders that don't deserve to die whatsoever, I feel terrible if I even accidentally kill them. So this game is just really not for me... And I completely concur that I don't want my "gaming" to be associated with this kind of game. But as others have said, anyone that would assume that this is what gaming is all about has already made up their mind and/or is so ignorant that it may not even be worth the effort trying to convince them otherwise.
He reminds me of negen from the walking dead comic
main thing is just the face value of the world isn't bad just the character being full evil not amoral or such just killing cause he hates
that and the pleading adds a bit of realism too much for some
in terms of violence there's been other that's gone further
madworld, manhunt, saints row and such other action games from this video is what i base that on
When this trailer started, I thought it was a joke. Like he was going to open the door, and something wacky would happen. The monologue seemed like something you'd make up as a joke. Then I thought it might have been another Postal game.
The thing that makes this different from GTA or Postal even, is that they have an air of satire, whereas Hatred seemed like it's played straight.
Hatred is just like trolling-flame-bait in game form.
It is an honest plot line. I have played murderous psychopaths before. Now I have a game that doesn't pretend that I am not playing a murderous psychopath. But will it be 1080p60h? If not its crap.
The determining factor as to what separates this game from GTA or Saints Row is the way that the violence is portrayed. In GTA and Especially Saints Row, the violence s a running joke. Much of it is over the top, humorous acts that aren't meant to be, nor portrayed as (usually) serious.
Hatred is a 180 to that. The violence is dark, realistic, and meant to be serious, which to many is felt as uncomfortable (myself included). It's interesting though that many acts that are shown in Hatred have been done before in other games, and have not been met with such disgust. In other words, the context of the acts seem to be more relevant than the actual acts themselves (which I agree with).
I don't think that the existence of this game is game is all bad though. As Frasher pointed out, it should be a joy to us that this game makes us feel uncomfortable with what is shown.
I don't think there is any need to get Big Brother involved or to have a petition to get rid of this game. My advise: Vote with your Wallet. If their s not a market for this game because people don't like it, then it will disappear under the invisible hand.
i still say its the tone that really differentiates this game from gta and others.
Love it - It's just a modern version of the game POSTAL - In postal you start by just LEAVING YOUR HOUSE, same style here - in the expansion pack you start in a supermarket; - Postal was amazing fun and was supposed to be twisted; I remember hitting the Q key is the suicide key "I REGRET NOTHING" the character would scream before blowing his brians out.
Postal 2 and (did they even make a 3?) are garbage; but Postal is a classic. This to me looks like a tribute / true sequel / spiritual successor to POSTAL. I will buy it and play it, I always have felt that in Video Games when I do awful things; I become a better person in my actual day to day life; as the years and new games have come out that have pushed specific themes etc; I can have fun playing this game, and I am a perfectly normal individual. It's a damn game!
I would play this.
the only difference to me is how they advertise themselves, imagine the exact same trailer but with some funny or happy music and colorful environments and throwing bunch of jokes here and there.
I'm pretty sure the feedback from the community would have been different in many ways.
what a great looking game its not really bad its animation, comic like, people grow up.its no more darker than postal in its day and then there is manhunt.
Lets think about Hotline Miami, does pixel graphics and adding funky music and telling you are killingvery bad people makes it less violent?
Also the site's description of the game makes it clear that the antagonist (player character) is not a well adjusted person, it's meant to be bleak.
Also there's this interesting (quite) new study about breaking moral norms in games:
www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2014/06/037.html
Very interesting read.
THANK YOU FRASER. You pretty much summed up for views on the current gamergate situation. It makes me sad to see how the current coverage will skew the image that normal people will have on gamers.
Fraser, look up the trailer for the movie "Rampage".
I think this game looks fun.
well that's gonna be banned in Australia
What about the mission on cod *no russian*?
It would be really messed up to make a gif of the 'Lisa' parody bit. It would seem like they are actually laughing about the game.
I don't know what you guys go on about.
I'd play the game. It's just a fucking game after all. I don't think fictional violence needs any justification. If anything it is more disturbing to me that people feel that this kind of violence (like in any violent video game) could be justified in any way.
This definitely won't come to Australia
It's a video game about a massacre that hasn't happened yet.
Isn't this basically a Postal remake?
In my opinion the violence isn't the main issue with the game. The part that will probably turn people off the game is the pleading and so response to the player.
Hatred character vs. The Punisher.
Red dead redemption was a rockstar game and it had executions
I've never wanted a game so badly. I might actually pay full price.
Tarantino and Rodriguez are relatively tame. I'd compare them to GTA in terms of violence: just pure fun that is not to be taken seriously. This game is more comparable to Michael Haneke.
bit of the old ultraviolence m'droogs
Is it bad that i think that visually the game looks kinda fun? like what with the physics and destructible environments and the color scheme? I mean the game seems like something a moody teen would make, what with the design of the main character...but is it weird that to me the run n gun looks neato?
Everyone who's comparing it to GTA needs to take a seat because it is not the same. It isn't the violence it's the emotion behind it. Everything he said about hating others and the simple fact people begging for their lives make it worse. Do I care if it gets released no but I just don't agree with premise.
I don't think Grand theft auto will ever go as far as realistic violence because it's a satire of a criminal life. It's supposed to go over the top, not realistic.
I totally thought the trailer was going the route of parody. That after the character's soliloquy, once he got outside, he was going to be the one about to get mowed down by someone else ie. the real main character. I mean, wow, that speech was just eye rollingly dumb.
Also that recut is...amazing. Do you understand life? Well do you?!
When's the last time a book, song, and movie was being called to violent and must be cencorsed or just halted entirely.
Seriously games can have there own messed up shit. They arent just toys for kids.
I think, (although it's just a feeling that I am just blurring it out, not an expert...) the difference between GTA violence and Hatred's violence is probably related to the Uncanny Valley. While you do worse stuff in GTA the characters themselves do not act like actual people: you run them over and they don't cry or suffer. Instead they just yell at you and walk away. (Seriously, who the fuck does that when getting run over by a car? And I am supposed to take that NPC seriously?!)
In Hatred, on the other hand, the npc's react like, well...how actual people would react if they are being hunted down by a crazy angst person. Then there is Mortal combat where the violence is cartoon gore. Not cartoon as in literary cartoon but I mean unrealistic and ludicrous. And the gore just looks so unrealistic that it seems enjoyable to watch because of how you can literary rip characters' body parts off in absurd manners.
Thus, the way the NPC's act in Hatred is more of a wake up call for people when it comes to what feels moral and ok in video game violence. The fact that there aren't as many games that treat NPC's this realistically pushes this more. This means that harsh video game violence doesn't necessarily have to have realistic graphics, ironically enough. Anyone remember Limbo, for example? That's not a realistic game but damn...XD And no this isn't my opinion on whether the game is bad or not since society seems to build an immunity based on what it is exposed to. this is just my observation on how people find ok vs not ok and I could be wrong too. I am sure that someone else will bring up a better theory though.
That being said I am not a fan of the idea of this game even if I do think it has the right to exist. (Although I don't care for GTA games ether but meh...) I totally didn't see that reference at the end of the video coming, though because it fits. LOL
EDIT
And yes, I used the term, "uncanny valley". I am not sure if I am using that term properly though. I know it is related to realism when it comes to robots and 3D but I also used it in relation to real vs fake violence in games because it's the closest term I could have used for this situation. I could be butchering the term still. IDK. XD
I think you're wrong about the early GTA games compared to the newer ones. Despite the improved graphics and more realistic gore, they've continued to move further and further AWAY from indiscriminate killing. Their narratives have become stronger and stronger, and the main character's motives are increasingly fleshed out; and the motive is never to kill civilians for no reason in the newer ones. In the rampage missions of the older games, for example, you killed any and all pedestrians in the surrounding area. In GTA V, Trevor only targets enemy gangs and soldiers in his rampages, and there's always a little cutscene at the start to establish his motivation. The newer GTA games are on the level of Tarantino-style crime films, whereas this game here is on the level of...childish and angsty revenge fantasies.
lol "as far as a game has gone" i gusse he hasnt heard of postal 2
to me its all about relating to the character. you can somewhat relate to the gta characters trying to protect themselves from other bad guys. i can't relate to a character whose sole purpose is kill everyone brutally
u ask me this game in gta 10.0 and personally when im playing gta im not thinkin about some moral compass i play the game to have fun
As has been said, the difference between this and pretty much every game on the market is that your entire goal is to kill innocent people, it's portrayed as dark, gritty and realistic, and how the game portrays people screaming their heads off, running for their lives and begging for mercy. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the A.I. was designed to make people set up barricades or something.
I mean, maybe the devs were trying to prove a point, something along the lines of "Oh every game has violence, you're just given a cheap excuse in most of them", though it's hard to buy when you're encouraged to execute (not just kill) begging, screaming civilians.