How to weld Aluminum Tig Vs. Gas
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
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How to weld Aluminum Sheet Tig Vs. Gas
We have a lot going on in the shop these last few months but I think we're finally back to doing 2 videos a week. This video is to compare and contrast the differences between tig welding and gas welding Aluminum sheet. Wray grabbed a scrap piece, cut it down the middle and welded one half of the panel using the TIG welder and the second half using a gas welder. We then proceed to the stress test to see if the welds hold up. Mind you the welds are perfectly fine when you fit the panel to the car. We're just showing through the use of a mallet how much stress the welds can take before they break.
We hope you enjoy this video and if there is anything else you might want to see please let us know!
Email: Wray@Proshaper.com
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Sorry Wray. Lets start with the set up. Use a #5 ceramic with a collet body and not a gas lens. This is "The" industry standard and has been used in every job I've ever had in Aerospace, Motorsport, etc etc. You are using far to much gas which can be detrimental. You need about 3-4 ltrs/min, anymore than that and you will get a dirty weld. Your tungsten is far to sharp an angle, with the modern HF TIG plants I grind a 1.5% lathinated tungsten (Gold tip) to about 15 degree with a tiny flat on the end to help produce a nice little ball tip this will stop the arc wander that can be seen in your demo.
Next is preparation, after cutting and grinding the most important thing is to remove contaminants from the bandsaw and grinding. This can be done with a clean dedicated to Aluminium only file and or a tungsten burr in a die grinder. It is super important to remove contaminants and not add them. After filing etc the part should be wiped down with a lint free cloth or tissue with acetone. I cannot over stress the importance of cleanliness when welding Aluminium, it is probably the number one priority. Which leads me onto the next point, in the video you use scotchbrite to clean the rod...this is another big mistake. What you have done here is remove some of the oxide and left it on the surface of the rod...this is bad. The rods should be kept clean and removed from the container one at a time and wiped down with acetone on a tissue prior to use, you will see the dirt that has been removed on the acetone tissue, the AC arc from the welding process will remove the oxide layer from the rod itself as you weld.
With Aluminium you don't need a "gas backer" or purge, unless you are welding a very thin gauge
Sounds great. I agree.
Problem is 99% of aluminum I weld is so dirty I'm lucky to get it to weld at all.
When I have some clean stuff I barely know how to act.
That is TIG welding, if I were to attempt using a torch I would have to clean it as best I could.
My first aluminum welding was when I was a freshman in high school, 1970. My older brother had a small boat motor that broke at the transom mount. I had initial trouble trying to get that oil soaked Al cleaned, the fracture had allowed penetration of oil for who knows how long, a long time I’m sure. Finally kept heating the pieces and spraying it with a solvent the shop teacher said to use. Can’t remember what it was. It finally did come clean and gas welded so nice I wish I could have film documented that back in the day of film everything and not as easy as today. To my knowledge it never broke again.
Great to have you posting again, Wray. People will be watching your videos and learning from your lifetime of knowledge for many years, I'm sure.
Wray, I purchased my first gallon of Rust 911 due to your video. Thanks
Very nice. I don't gas weld aluminum, though I have done copper for high pressure gaskets more than I like to remember. Nice to see technique.
2:45 The history for the switch to argon: It works and is 1/10 the price. Helium gives more heat deep in the weld, but for most applications this isn't a big deal. It will get you more at the upper end of the machine capability, and it changes the penetration profile and fluidity, which can be either a benefit or drawback, depending on the situation. I also like a helium mix for Al and stainless, but it isn't critical. On thicker material, where a vee groove comes into play, I tend to run straight argon, both because there is not significant advantage to using helium (other than at the top end of the machine/torch) and cost.
Hi Wray
I have seen many of your videos and always love watching them I have just seen your video on gas Vs TIG welding of sheet aluminium.I have made many motorcycle petrol tanks and have always used oxy acetylene. I have not used TIG myself so can not make a comparison from my own experience.I have done it quite differently from what you were doing. I would like to know what filler rod you were using . Were you actually welding the ally ie melting the base metel edges or were you using an ally "brazing" type filler such as Eutectic 190 where you don't melt the base metal. I have always done it by cutting strips of the base metal and using this as the welding rod . This way you get a true weld and perfect metallurgical match and also colour match. I notice that you were using a very reducing flame and I don't know why you are doing this I always use a neutral flame. This is the techniqe I was taught by my tutor who previously worked at Aston Martin in the 1960's
You tip out enough flux from the tin and seal the lid up again because it attracts moisture from the air ( the flux was called Ally weld) I then heat the end of the rod and dip it in the flux which makes the flux stick to the rod. I the hold the rod up vertical and heat about a couple of inches down from the end and the flux melts and runs down the rod a way. This makes a short iength of "coated" rod, I then dip the rod in the flux again to get some more on the end.
Heat the beginning of the joint but not hot enough to melt it then touch the fluxed end of the rod on the joint. Some fux will transfer to the joint . Continue heating the joint until the metal melts at the edges. You must melt both edges. Then add the filler rod into the molten pool with a scraping motion from right to left (if you are welding towards the left). Repeat this process untill you have used up the flux covered part of the rod. Re flux the rod and repeat the whole process.
Some people will say as soon as you melt the metal it will suddenly fall away on you but this is not true. You have more time than you might think particularly if you are using 63 thou ally which is what I use for the tanks. It is essential to have good visibility and use a magnifying lens or reading glasses if you need them. I have had very good results this way and never had a failure. It behaves like one piece of metal and would not break as in your test piece. The ally is annealed in the area surrounding the joint which makes it malleable and not prone to cracking. The flux washes off easily under a hose and a srubbing brush. I have never had trouble with paint lifting later on.
I have seen a number of other channels on metal forming but none as good as yours.
I would love to see film taken in the glory days of the custom body shops in the 1930"s if any such exists. Hope this is of some interest to you.
Regards from New Zealand John Appel
Interesting, thank you! I am gas welding an aluminium bodied car I am making and am finding it's not easy. I find the only way to get good consistent penetration is to go from both sides. And I end up with really lumpy welds that need a lot of grinding but the welds are good then. I need to be quicker with my dipping or use thinner rods maybe? I also find not fluxing the rod but dipping it into the powder works well for me, I think because it gives me that pause with the torch to control the heat. The problem for us amateurs is something you mentioned in your film - you can get good if you do it every day! As a hobbyist, this is my second aluminium car and probably my last so I will never get enough practice in to be expert. I find that frustrating but have learned to settle for 'good enough' for my needs! I will have to try those Norton discs. I have been using a large flap disc on and angle grinder to know the tops off then flap discs on an air grinder and they work quite well. I also use wax rubbed on them to stop the clogging. On the outside I can then body file everything smooth.
Always great information. Your are a humble and terrific professor. Always enjoy and learn from your presentations. I can really tell that I need to come to your workshop for a hands-on learning experience. Thanks for taking the time it takes to make and post these videos.
For eye protection I use a didymium lens backed up by a #5 green. A didymium or cobalt lens blocks the sodium flare while the green blocks the rest. I had a hard time finding what to use and ended up calling one of the safety lense material manufacturers.The one he mentioned I believe does both but is expensive and more limited in the eyewear options.
Great stuff Wray I remember my mentor welding aluminum with a touch on a door skin from a 140 Jag when I tell folks they think I’m telling a welding story I’m trying to keep it clean now I’ll tell them to check out your Chanel thanks again
Great Video Wray, Aluminium is a FUSSY metal to work with.!
Make It Kustom (Karl Fisher) keeps mentioning you, that might be some of the traffic.
Great info!
Thanks for the video Wray, very interesting.
Skilled.
Lookin good do far bro
I think the flame is what let you down, you never had the neutral flame 🔥
Thank you! I really like your videos
Excellent!
i am old school tig is fast yes ,i lean,t to weld many year,s ago still love gas
Hey Wrey Grab a bigger rod it will lay out better on aluminum. I love your videos watch all of them. I also weld .060 alot and I use 1/8 or 3/ 32
most of the time. I know it sounds wrong but I dont push it. just something I do hope your not offended by my comment.
I'll try it.
Good stuff! I don't know why, but I did not know that aluminum could be gas welded; it's all about the flux, I suppose
Heat and flux.
@@proshaper I’ve found getting the heat just right is my biggest challenge when gas welding aluminum.
Thats a mistake everyone does Tackweld both ends first Start in the middle first then tack from the middle outward Left and right So expansion works its way to the outer edge eliminates some warpage .
On the gas side - you had too much flame/heat
I taught my students to gas weld a hole in condenser coils with a gas torch - that is really thin stuff - using a very small tip, of course.
Heat regulation is critical.
Just my 2 cents
Thank you 👍🏻
I thought Stargone was the gas for Al?
Hi Wray I am curious can this be done with a spool gun? other than being clumsy. I am sorry if you have commented in the past but I don't see comments or reference . You have made excellent programs and I am happy to see most of them.
I have no aluminum mig welding experience. I have been told by a student that he used a pulsed mig welder with excellent results. I would like to see the results on butt welded aluminum sheet before endorsing the method.
Hi Wray. When you do the "gas" test you use the oxy torch. If I only have Argon available as a shielding gas, could I lay the flux down and continue using the TIG torch as my heat source instead of an oxy torch for the same result?
Norm ! 😮
Been following this channel for awhile now and enjoy very much! You mentioned the Norton Blaze abrasives often. Where do you source them ? Thanks
I buy them online from the seller that has the best price. I believe they are around $35.00 now for a box of 3" 50 grit.
I don't yet have my own TIG experience, but from my understanding of Heliarc TIG vs today's TIG is partially on of nomenclature. Helium (more expensive obviously) is a better gas to use for challenging aluminum welds because being of lower density than inert Argon, it pulls away less heat from the weld allowing for faster and deeper welding. Argon still works, and makes the arc easier to start with more stability, but gasses trending towards more helium in the mix than argon work better (so I glean through reading/videos etc.)
Between Gas & Tig, is there one definitive circumstance or another (in auto work) that one would want to choose one over the other? (Easier to planish/causes less distortion etc)?
Goodnight!
I'm an automotive repairman in Brazil, I always watch your videos and learn a lot, especially about aluminum, my question is;
What product do you use on the sanding disc, would it be beeswax?
Just simple candle wax. I was gifted a large block of candle wax 20 years ago. I'll never use it up. One candle will last years.
@@proshaper Thank you for the information, thank you for sharing knowledge, if you can, post more video about aluminum plate processes.
Hugs.Henrique
Wray thanks for the proshaper fix!
Was the the healey center section leaning against the back wall?
I'll get back to it I have a plan.
Wray, great video. A quick question: if you didn’t have a tig welder, and had to do tacks w/just gas - is that possible? I assume it would be possible, but thought I would check-in. Thank you for the really great info you share with us!
Yes, you can tack with a gas welder. Some gas welders are so good they just run the weld all the way. I swear they have three arms. Gas welding is faster than tig but it is not better as most good gas welders will claim. Tig welding is much easier to learn and the price of a decent tig welder is very affordable today. When laser welding becomes a mas market possibility it will outperform both tig and gas by a mile.
Where is that blue lenses from ???
What type of tungsten do you use? Pure? Does it ball up? I guess your welder does AC for aluminum? If a harbor freight rig welder, how old is it and how’s it working out for you?
Subbed and liked.
The compressor sounds like a low RPM unit that is easy on the ears. What model compressor do you have?
Thanks for the gas demonstration and welding flux info. Regulator pressures and torch flame type Wray?
hey Wray, thanks as always for the informative info. could you please though, give a quick run down of torch lighting for sheet metal? you wouldn't believe how little info there is out there concerning this important, "dialing down" of the flame. and for aluminum, do you leave a small "carburizing tail at the flame tip? thanks again. E.
Hey Wray what happened to pulse with TIG welds?
Brilliant thanks Wray. Is it okay to English wheel gas and or tig welds ?
Wrey, Do you have a rule of thumb for welding amp versus aluminum thickness? Also, I have the same Everlast welder that you do. Could you post the settings that you used for the .063 aluminum welding? This video was very helpful!
I change my settings and techniques several times a year. Right now I have them pretty close to perfect for .063" aluminum sheet butt welds. I still have a ways to go on gas welding.
Another great and interesting video. Assume with the TIG you were using an AC setting?
I only have a DC TIG so bought some flux to try and learn gas welding ally. I would love to know what size nozzle you use and what pressure on the Oxygen & Acetylene.
Yes, and what kind of flame adjustment are you using? Thanks,Wray. Great vids!
👍
Have you experienced putting kerosene under the weld to keep oxygen out? When I started long ago, the old Swedish masters used that often...
With Tig that would make a fuming mess, probably with gas as well. This video is about butt welding sheet aluminum, welding thicker aluminum would have to be a different video.
Goodnight!!!!
I saw your suggestion to put kerosene, how do you do this method? Grateful.
Not a great Tig welding but if you need a meathead to do those tests let me know. I am two towns away.
Hi Michael, it would make an interesting video. Call me tomorrow maybe we can make that happen. My phone number is on my website.
Wray, you have to back up,,,you are making a major teaching mistake: You are depriving your students the "foundational knowledge" upon which your presentation depends and builds....and of course, educates with tremendous sincerity. We need the basics, the theories, the whys and why nots. Go primary if possible.
Could you not use a sync on the back of the gas weld to take some heat out of the metal ?
First impression: this is like the New Yankee Metal Workshop. Awesome!
Amazing video. Love every second of it.
Awesome idea to take in a really experiensed gas-welder aswell.
Heard alot of Good Words to weld ALU with MIG aswell. Another Side by Side candidate to the test maby??
Love this channel.
I’ve used gas welding for years now…….Also tig……..I guess a lot of experienced welders out there are going to criticise this……..But I’m not going to do that. Cos you’re an honest guy. And I really enjoy your videos. Way to go man. 👍👍👍
This is the kind of comment I love to see, greatly appreciate it!
I forgot to shut off the regulator and now all our gasses are-gone. 😂
Been there, done that!
I just bought an oxyacetylene torch , never welded before lol for my art work but I doing lots of research , when I get my cylinders I will start practicing. Thanks for video !
Just purchased a Everlast Mts 251si cant wait to try it out. I don't have the helium mix though.
While on this topic if it's okay to mention other "channels" I'd like to recommend checking out Evan Wilcox who's making motorcycle tanks and stuff in aluminium and he only does gas welding. And the great thing is the way he explains everything he does and the way he thinks about making the different shapes and the patters. But he only has instagram so you'll have to go there and find it, he's posting short 1min clips with his phone of the work he does at the moment.
I used to oxy-hydrogen weld some of my aluminum projects and it was great for doing lighter-than-air foam.
Great video, very thorough with all the information as usual.. I always look forward to a new video!
Is that just tap water in the flux?
Thanks a lot, great video, full of information, all the best to yous and your loved ones
Good stuff, Wrey. I'm a proponent of old school gas welding, but appreciate that TIG works also. Understanding the nuances of each method is very important. I've watched several experienced gas welders and noticed differences in their techniques, your's as well. Thanks for showing us.
The was a bloody good vid,
I weld lead with oxy but would love to try aluminium,
This vid helped me a lot.
Good demonstration. 👍
When you weld it doesn't that also aneal it? If you don't work the pannel doesn't that leave a soft to a hard area that through vibration would start a crack? Not on your weld but on the heat-affected zone? If not heat then is it going from thick to thin metal. Like on a bracket to a thinner sheet. like on a trailer fender to bracket.
When you work the weld like I did in the planishing hammer that removes some of the affect of the annealing.
Fantastic tutorial again Wray
Love these videos
TIG seems to be easier for a beginner to learn, because all the settings are digital, hence reproducible and variable in measured steps, unlike the continuous nature of gas.. There's also less risk of setting fire to the environment or co-workers by forgetting the flame you're waving around. :-)*
A metalworker on another channel uses CO2 as the shielding gas. (Don't remember if for TIG, MIG, or both.) It's much cheaper than noble gases. Have you ever tried it?
CO2 /Argon is for Mig. I mistakenly loaded a C02 tank on my tig once, it was horrible.
Co2 is an active gas. Here in Sweden MIG that use co2/argon mix as a shield is called MAG. So if someone say they weld MIG in steel Body car they are wrong, they MAG weld.
Is it desame in the US??