I love seeing failed products like this. The hours of thought and the heart that went into something that has fallen into obscurity just fascinates me.
For those who don't know. L5R was a living card game. So every year they had a tournament for all the players and the winner was able to change something about the game. Most of the first couple years was adding clans stuff like that but during the last year, a guy played the Rat clan which was very strong and popular at the time and won. He then proceeded to remove the Rat clan from existence. So all of those cards were no longer tournament legal. It was a horrible tactic on L5R's part to allow such things but it happened and killed a huge portion of their fanbase
for some reason, this is fascinating. i never heard of any of these TCGs (then again dont know much about em) that being said, it would have been neat if you opened up a couple of those so we could see the packs, packaging, and what the cards looked like -i know you'd be eating the cost but it would have made for a neat viewer experience (at least for me!)
Rudy, you aren't willing to crack a box worth 6 bucks for your channel for a look at an obscure set? Sure the cards have no secondary value but you have a patreon. Throw some cards in when you send something to a supporter.
I stopped watching at that point. What the fuck is the point of this video then? If you're not going to open at least one, then all you're doing is showing off that you bought a bunch of plastic wrapped boxes.
He kind of did. It’s pretty obvious. They simply aren’t investable enough. For instance, The Nightmare Before Christmas is pretty popular, but it’s not something that transfers well over to a trading card game.
Yugioh is the "cockroach" of the TCG world: it has somehow survived for YEARS even with aggressive reprinting, ridiculous powercreep, overprinting the fuck out of product, only 1 relevant format, and almost no secondary market for cards older than a year. It's honestly remarkable, Yugioh is the textbook definition of how not to run a TCG, yet it's still going strong after all these years.
@Alpha Omega shocking that as a player i dont need to shell out hundreds for old cards that havent been reprinted in ages, over printing truly sucks for the 99%
You're an fool that knows nothing about Yugioh, and thats why you keep asking why is yugioh still relevant? that's because it has a huge fanbase on par with pokemon, if you don't like yugioh that's on you, but don't go shit talking a tcg you know nothing about just because you dont like it .and 5 years later ITS STILL GOING STRONG
Cool, I bought the L5R starter pack but the manual was kinda bad and there was nothing on youtube to learn from.. hopefully this will be easier to learn. I Really like the lore behind the clans etc.
This. It's pretty disingenuous to say that L5R was only popular for "a little while" or it "fell apart". It was literally the second longest running card game, and then AEG sold it. TCGs are a mistake in 2016, and I'm going full bore into the new L5R.
Allen Weaver I will to. I like Magic (to an extent) but I would love to see more card games go the LCG route. I feel like TCGs are an archaic model that only actually hurts its players by creating a secondary market.
Yagi if you think about the most popular, famous tcg's they all have solid gameplay elements that keep the game fresh and interesting. That causes a whole competition, then more cards are released etc then collectors catch on. If they don't have that solid core gameplay element I think they'll struggle. The famous ones i'm referring to are Magic The Gathering, Yugioh, Pokemon etc. Thats my theory anyway :/
Many games just plain die due to end of a license. Or they were movie related. Lord of the Rings had a good game, with great gameplay. Again it died. Some cards that were signed by the actors (if signed in person and proven real) can hold value still but...its a long shot. The autograph itself is the only thing of worth in that case. Just be smart as to how you spend your money, is really all Rudy is trying to say between the lines on this video. Of course, you could be smarter and just bank the money somehow and have it gain interest over time. But hey, what do we know? We buy the stuff anyway! Or in my case, I beg for it. FREE CARDS PLEASE! I got no money to spend on the addiction anymore.
+Andrew Reinhold overprinting (killed Star Wars and Netrunner, and is now killing Force of Will), overcomplicated gameplay (killed Vampire: The Eternal Struggle and Kaijudo), and Powercreep (killed Naruto, DBZ, and Legend of the 5 Rings), and failure to adapt with the times (killed the World of Warcraft TCG). Those are 4 major reasons why TCGs die.
I disagree there's a lot of games with good gameplay mechanics that have died. MTG was successful because it was the first modern TCG and had a good core gameplay. Yugioh got popular because it appealed to the 8-12 year olds and was the first to tie it in with a television show. Pokemon TCG is popular because of the brand.
I dig this video. I remember when there was a game for EVERYTHING. I had a friend who had 'em all Most recently I looked into the Shadowrun TCG, would be neat to get some of those some day.
My friends and I still whip out random dead CCGs to play at least once a month. Wheel of Time CCG is a particular favorite, and had some great expansions. The rares were always interesting and desirable. Spent a lot of time scouring ebay to complete my playset of the game, and it was totally worth it.
Was thinking this too. I remember when watching CSL that it did have a following but didn't really see it after Dan had the chance to go to Japan (I think) due to where he placed in a tournament
Where is the best place to purchase games like these? Are there sites that specialize in selling boosters, boxes, and other products to defunct card games or do I just need to dig through countless offers on sites such as e-bay and amazon?
I barely found your channel. Before this video, I was reminded of when I bought Megaman X Command Mission for the PS2. It had a loose card for the Megaman card game. I ended up buying a deck because I am a fan of Megaman. I also remember a Gundam card game. I don't know if it is still played in Japan, but it is dead here in the west.
Very nice video. I have always found it fascinating just how many different TCGs or CCGs have been released over the years, and how most of them have failed. Always enjoyed playing and collecting the Naruto CCG and the DBZ by Score though. Rudy, I would like to hear your thoughts on investments on miniature games like Heroclix, Attack Wing, and wargame miniatures like Warhammer 40k and the kind.
secondary market in Canada would kill for those moonlight Savior boosters to be opened. in Canada right now. lightning strike (red deck exclusive) goes for 5 a pop. Apollo each iteration of Apollo from moonlight is 8+ and new stuff ain't bad at all. I don't think the game is dying just yet. they just need to be super careful with keeping the secondary market alive.
I always wanted to get into L5R. I remember playing it once as a demo at a local convention back in 2000. I've only seen it played in person 1 other time.
As for L5r it was sold off. In its last rotation it suffered from poor promos massive power downed in powerlevel coming from uberhighpowered leveled block, so you can see why people was put off playing into the new block. As the new block was introduced as fairly balanced set but then it became stagnant as it lost a lot of versatility and only 1 type of deck type was dominating, they were quick ban fixes but the lack of versatility was still there for a few sets which burned out a lot of players. The lack of good promos put off a lot of players going to major tournaments. And there new marketing strategy in marketing the starter deck made the starters hard to get for newer players. It lasted for around 19nish-20nish years before it was sold and now will be rebooted as an LCG(Fantasy Flight Games brand)
Might have been the same story with Clone Wars. I'm not sure of the dates, but FFG started up a Star Wars LCG in late 2012, so it's possible that Tops had the license yanked out from under them.
Is there a certain website to buy booster boxes like this from? I saw the clone wars adventures booster boxes and I remember playing the computer game as a kid. I saw it was I collaboration with SOE who also made the game Free Realms and they did a tcg for that game as well. I need to find a Free Realms booster box if anyone can help me, all I can find is single packs on Amazon that haven't sold in years.
love to hear your thoughts on METW (Middle Earth the Wizards). only 4 or 5 expansions made for this that came out in the mid to late 90s. Box prices are expensive if you can find them. Great artwork in the set! When this game started fading they were almost giving boxes away. Wish I had picked more up back then.
Hey there! I know this video is a few weeks old but I was wondering what did you do with the force of will stuff? I used to play force of will in tournaments and now i just collect stuff from it basically. Please let me know what you did with it or plan to do with it thanks!!
I got 30 Wyvern limited first edition starter decks for $2 a piece awhile back on a whim. Could you imagine Alpha starters going for that today if things were different?
Oh, I think were pretty safe on that; besides, availability will prevent Alpha starter decks from every really decreasing in value. Wyvern was a TCG that came out in 1994 and was based around dragons and knights and had a VERY similar aesthetic feel to MTG. I'm not sure how much they printed, but you can find booster boxes for $29 and starter decks for $1-$3. I compare it to MTG only because it dropped at about the same time but is practically worthless today.
Yeah, I started reading through one of the rules books when I got the decks and the gameplay seemed pretty uninteresting. The card stock is definitely different from what Wizards used. It's sturdy, but I haven't tried shuffling without sleeves as would have been common in '94. I basically bought them for the artwork, which gives off that vintage/1970s fantasy aesthetic that drew me to mid-90s MTG.
Rudy how many cards are in the original set ams the expansion. Would you be willing to sell a couple of each? I would like to have a complete set because i am a fan of tim Burton. Mayby even try playing it. Thanks for sharing. 😎
If you actually find out some facts about the games and tell us about that rather than just randomly touch everything and repeat the same sentences five times in a row, and just assuming we know all about these tcgs, it would make for a more interesting video. I don't need to see you flipping the same booster box around for the 15th time saying "ye I don't know much about this stuff for the 5th time
Legend of the Five Rings ended up dying because the creators decided to scrap the idea of booster boxes and retailers all-together I believe. It was the factory itself that was selling the product, so stores wouldn't be able to pick up stock anymore, which ended up killing a lot of the player base. After that they ended up selling the rights to L5R to Fantasy Flight, who is planning on turning it into a living card game like Game of Thrones/Star Wars/Netrunner/etc.
The guy who owned the IP got sick of dealing with the printers and distributers and sold the IP to Fantasy Flight for a pretty penny, he now just makes Board Games.
I kind of want to get some of those now. Would be nice to have an alternative TCG night with the group. Kind of like playing exploding kittens or unstable unicorns
chistine lane honestly I'm kinda glad he didn't bust those open. I really liked l5r didn't played it because I was into mtg. Ionly learned the game during his last month at my lgs. Those box for ppl like me are huge bubble of nostalgia.
When you have a business a lot of people who do these kinds of purchases will put it on the business' credit. So if he opens the product or it becomes destroyed that is money the business will always show as a lose. It's like throwing money away and not good for your books. I think he has also mentioned in his type of business, retail, that you always have product that doesn't move so I can see not wanting to add more lose. Technically for him to do an opening and it not be sabotaging his books is for him to re-buy the box from his own business. Meaning he will spend double the money to open one. And, of course, he is a business man. It goes against everything you been trying to learn and understand about running one. This is all somewhat speculative as I don't live in Florida. I have a buddy who started a business and learned a lot through his process.
Why is Force of Will dying? It seems pretty popular around my locals. If the cards aren't selling that well it might have something to do with them trying to do the stupid rotation system like Wizards do. If it was more like Vanguard or Buddyfight, where every card is legal to play and they go back and give legacy support, then the older cards would probably retain value.
fishbass he explains that distributors have so much product they cannot unload because there's not enough demand down the line because there's no value in the box. The value of the cards won't appreciate, so you can't make money off the singles. It's great for the players, but he points out there's a balance that needed to be struck and when you flood the market with 3 printings of the rarest cards, that's not good for speculators
Allen Sorensen yeah the 2ndary market is unresponsive to tourney standings so prices are low and rarely fluctuate (only a hand full of cards break 10 bucks). I travel back and forth between New Orleans and Atlanta. Completely dead (as in shops can't lower the price enough to get rid of product) in New Orleans, still doing alright in ATL though.
Force of will has the problem where lots of people want to play, but stores don't want to stock the game. That's why there are apparently dead zones all throughout North America. Other games can have the opposite problem, like maybe the Exodus card game. The low pull ratios and high prices makes it good for vendors, but barely anyone is playing the game.
Hey any chance to get my hand on some of these? I've been looking to maybe get into FoW but idk if I wanna spend 80$ on a booster box. What would you be selling this product for?
Cheshire I was all in on FoW and psyched they had the Valkyria Chronicles tie-in. Couldn't afford to keep up and quit about that time. Too bad the cards were bad!
For real. The card features, composition, and design were all utter crap. I have zero interest in it. There is a Vingolf 3 coming out, and those cards look amazing.
Soooo, where can us peasants find these tcgs and these low prices? I also buy dead tcgs but I can only find what I'm looking for on ebay and I'm definitely paying more then $6 a box.
Anyone remember the old Magi Nation cards? I found a few sheets of these while going through my old Pokemon collection. Is Magi Nation even around any more, I've had these things since the 90s, hah!
I dont see the harm in opening one box "oh no, I lost 7 dollars, what ever shall I do". I think the fact that you bought these in the first place lost you that money, whether you open them or not
Force of Will has been on the slow uptick ever since MOA (aka the Fallen Empires of Force of Will) crapped all over everyone. It's still a great game and the last 2 sets have been fantastic. Vingolf 2 did so poorly because almost all of the cards in it were real bad.
L5R hell yeah. 7th sea Spellfire Towers in Time Wyvern Guardians Ophidian 2350 Battle Spirits Warlord War Cry Net Runner (wotc) Battletech Hecatomb Dark Age Spycraft Rage Yes I am very interested in dead tcg/ccg's
Have you heard about Ophidian 2360? A guy bought the license about a year ago and did an expansion for 2350. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to do well because the guy is a middle-aged man who doesn't like collectibility therefore the cards are fixed so it's pretty lame. I love a lot of your choices. Good tastes. Dark Age is my personal favorite from your list.
I did not know that, but I will keep an ear open. I'm intrigued to say the least but card fixing sucks. Yea I love card games and that's just a small portion of what I have here, and still on the look out for others. So name some if you want I would love some recommendations.
FFXIK I've taken a backseat for dead card games for the moment since I'm concentrating on a few that require a lot of money to collect But I'd recommend: Quest for the Grail, Mythos, and Kult.
I ran the biggest MLP CCG singles dealer in the world for 2 years. I knew 4 of the 5 developers personally. If you ever want to know anything about it I'm your guy - good or bad.
L5R was fantastic. I was in a few tournaments and met people from all over the world. It had a small but mature fanbase. There was a storyline attached to tourney results, miss it a lot.
Rita Rubary he's buying from wholesalers that give him a discount for bulk purchases. Rudy is always praying the price spikes on a random set while he's holding a larger quantity.
The thing is, he will always be able to sell it for what he buys it for. But the chance that the price goes up for something collectible is worth the "cost" of space in his house/storage unit.
Sometimes if something has low value and you completely destroy the supply of the item you can artificially inflate the value of the collectibles which remain in the market. It's a great way to make money off of shit which basically has no value to anyone.
@defmore89 well its not a game to invest in since theres no value in secondary market, but the company does well and the game is appreciated by its player base, thats SO much better than high value secondary market since that makes the game alive when everyone can play what they want without needing to spend a few hundred bucks on a deck
I love seeing failed products like this. The hours of thought and the heart that went into something that has fallen into obscurity just fascinates me.
it is fascinating but also sad
For those who don't know. L5R was a living card game. So every year they had a tournament for all the players and the winner was able to change something about the game. Most of the first couple years was adding clans stuff like that but during the last year, a guy played the Rat clan which was very strong and popular at the time and won. He then proceeded to remove the Rat clan from existence. So all of those cards were no longer tournament legal. It was a horrible tactic on L5R's part to allow such things but it happened and killed a huge portion of their fanbase
I'm scouring the internet for more about this story, please help I'm fascinated
for some reason, this is fascinating. i never heard of any of these TCGs (then again dont know much about em)
that being said, it would have been neat if you opened up a couple of those so we could see the packs, packaging, and what the cards looked like -i know you'd be eating the cost but it would have made for a neat viewer experience (at least for me!)
it's so weird seeing you comment on a years old video.
@@patrickcaffeine6310 Yeah, what kind of weirdo comments on something years after??? 😛
"They only woth something if they sealed, if i open them they worthless", throws the seald boxes arround like they garbage, ouch :/
Are you new here? :)
noobyPhobos yes, kinda, just watched some of his videos yesterday, looks like hes doing that alot XD
Could see if someone in a Hot Topic or something wants to sell them lol the nightmare before christmas ones anyways.
Rudy, you aren't willing to crack a box worth 6 bucks for your channel for a look at an obscure set?
Sure the cards have no secondary value but you have a patreon. Throw some cards in when you send something to a supporter.
I'm sure there's a website out there with pictures of ALL the cards..
I stopped watching at that point. What the fuck is the point of this video then? If you're not going to open at least one, then all you're doing is showing off that you bought a bunch of plastic wrapped boxes.
J. Cruise Yeah I’m buying some to OPEN and COLLECT.
would have been cool to see a $5 box get opened
Right $5 for a video isn't bad
@@jevinrobertson Too expensive
It speaks to Rudy’s mentality about investing. I wish I had his willpower…
I thought you were going to talk about why they failed...
He kind of did. It’s pretty obvious. They simply aren’t investable enough. For instance, The Nightmare Before Christmas is pretty popular, but it’s not something that transfers well over to a trading card game.
"They're simply not investable enough". That's literally just rephrasing that they failed. It's true, he never explain why they failed. Lame video.
The title just says "let's talk about them", not why they failed. That's what he did
@@xCyborgNoodle How pointless
You just sound like ur diging for gold lmao
I won't open these boxes. OH COME ON
wont open a 6$ box......
✡
Free Audio Books ?
Chaotic still has a pretty strong secondary market. Sadly the prices on cards and sealed product are rising as the amount of product dwindles
I loved that game so much. Had a ton of stuff but sold it for pretty cheap years ago. Still have some tho.
LowTier4Life does it really ? i forgot about that show/game lmao
what r u doing here? shouldn't you be making drama?
yea
Man why did 4kids have to exist.
Yugioh is the "cockroach" of the TCG world: it has somehow survived for YEARS even with aggressive reprinting, ridiculous powercreep, overprinting the fuck out of product, only 1 relevant format, and almost no secondary market for cards older than a year. It's honestly remarkable, Yugioh is the textbook definition of how not to run a TCG, yet it's still going strong after all these years.
Yugioh is the best!
@Alpha Omega shocking that as a player i dont need to shell out hundreds for old cards that havent been reprinted in ages, over printing truly sucks for the 99%
Obviously they know more about the market than you
You're an fool that knows nothing about Yugioh, and thats why you keep asking why is yugioh still relevant? that's because it has a huge fanbase on par with pokemon, if you don't like yugioh that's on you, but don't go shit talking a tcg you know nothing about just because you dont like it .and 5 years later ITS STILL GOING STRONG
The origional star wars CCG had some cool/awesome rules, it was intelligent and made a lot of sense. Basically a millitary strategy game in some ways.
Can't believe they made a TCG for Nightmare Before Christmas. Out of curiosity checked Ebay and the boosters are going for about $20 to $30.
Wait, going for or actually selling for? Because that sounds like some serious wishful thinking there.
AEG sold L5R to Fantasy Flight and FFG is going to release L5R as an LCG at Gen Con this year.
Cool, I bought the L5R starter pack but the manual was kinda bad and there was nothing on youtube to learn from.. hopefully this will be easier to learn. I Really like the lore behind the clans etc.
Wow!
James Justus I had to look up LCG, had t heard that term before. So it's going to be like boss monster or the marvel card game. Cool
This. It's pretty disingenuous to say that L5R was only popular for "a little while" or it "fell apart". It was literally the second longest running card game, and then AEG sold it.
TCGs are a mistake in 2016, and I'm going full bore into the new L5R.
Allen Weaver I will to. I like Magic (to an extent) but I would love to see more card games go the LCG route. I feel like TCGs are an archaic model that only actually hurts its players by creating a secondary market.
I would really be interested in some opinions on how these games die, instead of thriving.
sounds like overprinting leads to a weak or non existent secondary market that keeps a card game from picking up steam
Yagi if you think about the most popular, famous tcg's they all have solid gameplay elements that keep the game fresh and interesting. That causes a whole competition, then more cards are released etc then collectors catch on. If they don't have that solid core gameplay element I think they'll struggle. The famous ones i'm referring to are Magic The Gathering, Yugioh, Pokemon etc. Thats my theory anyway :/
Many games just plain die due to end of a license. Or they were movie related. Lord of the Rings had a good game, with great gameplay. Again it died. Some cards that were signed by the actors (if signed in person and proven real) can hold value still but...its a long shot. The autograph itself is the only thing of worth in that case.
Just be smart as to how you spend your money, is really all Rudy is trying to say between the lines on this video. Of course, you could be smarter and just bank the money somehow and have it gain interest over time. But hey, what do we know? We buy the stuff anyway! Or in my case, I beg for it. FREE CARDS PLEASE! I got no money to spend on the addiction anymore.
+Andrew Reinhold overprinting (killed Star Wars and Netrunner, and is now killing Force of Will), overcomplicated gameplay (killed Vampire: The Eternal Struggle and Kaijudo), and Powercreep (killed Naruto, DBZ, and Legend of the 5 Rings), and failure to adapt with the times (killed the World of Warcraft TCG). Those are 4 major reasons why TCGs die.
I disagree there's a lot of games with good gameplay mechanics that have died. MTG was successful because it was the first modern TCG and had a good core gameplay. Yugioh got popular because it appealed to the 8-12 year olds and was the first to tie it in with a television show. Pokemon TCG is popular because of the brand.
@Rudy do you have or heard of the TCG by Melissa Benson called Wyvern? Or
Spellfire by TSI pre Wotc
legend of the five rings is still a thing, Fantasy Flight took it over
I wish I could have found more people to play with. Loved the game.
FFGs version is a completely different game.
You can't play those old cards with the rebooted LCG - it's just not the same game.
Yeah, FFG killed the franchise, as they do with everything they touch
I dig this video.
I remember when there was a game for EVERYTHING. I had a friend who had 'em all
Most recently I looked into the Shadowrun TCG, would be neat to get some of those some day.
rudy whats price on nighmare befor christmas boxes ill buy one of each you can open then send to me
hey! I didnt knew there was a Nightmare Before Christmas TCG! Im curious, do you still have that case or did you sell it? Cheers
Cool to see some obscure stuff. A friend of mine was really into L5R back in the day, he was the only one I knew that played it at all.
ScykohCrud Hey cool to see you watch Rudy's videos too, love your Pokémon videos man.
Matt Coville did an entire video on L5R and the story behind the game. It's actually fascinating.
A boat? You know how much I've wanted of those! I'll take the box!
hey rudy, you ever pick up anything for the USA release of gundam war and gundam ms war?
My friends and I still whip out random dead CCGs to play at least once a month. Wheel of Time CCG is a particular favorite, and had some great expansions. The rares were always interesting and desirable. Spent a lot of time scouring ebay to complete my playset of the game, and it was totally worth it.
Rudy. nobody can resist the temptation of the "mystery box".
was it deriums that sent you force of will? lol
i remember a video where they were throwing a booster box around recently
Was thinking this too. I remember when watching CSL that it did have a following but didn't really see it after Dan had the chance to go to Japan (I think) due to where he placed in a tournament
Rob Moke-Gatt I think after the tournament they kind of quit. I might be wrong but I feel they did
Exactly what popped into my mind, lol. Given the timing of it all it just kind of fits.
hey Rudy do you know where to get magi-nation boxes for cheap or if you got them would you sell them?
how much do you sell force of will boxes for?
Where is the best place to purchase games like these? Are there sites that specialize in selling boosters, boxes, and other products to defunct card games or do I just need to dig through countless offers on sites such as e-bay and amazon?
You'll make your money back in TH-cam ad rev, if you open them up and have a TCG opening extravaganza.
Another big reason card games die is because HOARDERS prevent actual players of the game from getting on the cards they need.
I barely found your channel. Before this video, I was reminded of when I bought Megaman X Command Mission for the PS2. It had a loose card for the Megaman card game. I ended up buying a deck because I am a fan of Megaman. I also remember a Gundam card game. I don't know if it is still played in Japan, but it is dead here in the west.
Very nice video. I have always found it fascinating just how many different TCGs or CCGs have been released over the years, and how most of them have failed. Always enjoyed playing and collecting the Naruto CCG and the DBZ by Score though.
Rudy, I would like to hear your thoughts on investments on miniature games like Heroclix, Attack Wing, and wargame miniatures like Warhammer 40k and the kind.
I love TCGs unconditionally. I want to learn and play all of these
Same :)
secondary market in Canada would kill for those moonlight Savior boosters to be opened. in Canada right now. lightning strike (red deck exclusive) goes for 5 a pop. Apollo each iteration of Apollo from moonlight is 8+ and new stuff ain't bad at all. I don't think the game is dying just yet. they just need to be super careful with keeping the secondary market alive.
You have any duel master cards or packs?
I always wanted to get into L5R. I remember playing it once as a demo at a local convention back in 2000. I've only seen it played in person 1 other time.
Force Of Will is in my top 5 favorite card games.
I was just getting into force of will, awesome card game!
Ty Smith Yeah it is.
Josh Dracoian Shit card. 5 mana for a counterspell?! Ridiculous.
Generalizedfeelings I'm talking about the card game. Not the blue counter spell used in legacy and vintage.
Cheaper to play everyday!
As for L5r it was sold off. In its last rotation it suffered from poor promos massive power downed in powerlevel coming from uberhighpowered leveled block, so you can see why people was put off playing into the new block. As the new block was introduced as fairly balanced set but then it became stagnant as it lost a lot of versatility and only 1 type of deck type was dominating, they were quick ban fixes but the lack of versatility was still there for a few sets which burned out a lot of players. The lack of good promos put off a lot of players going to major tournaments. And there new marketing strategy in marketing the starter deck made the starters hard to get for newer players. It lasted for around 19nish-20nish years before it was sold and now will be rebooted as an LCG(Fantasy Flight Games brand)
Might have been the same story with Clone Wars. I'm not sure of the dates, but FFG started up a Star Wars LCG in late 2012, so it's possible that Tops had the license yanked out from under them.
Is there a certain website to buy booster boxes like this from? I saw the clone wars adventures booster boxes and I remember playing the computer game as a kid. I saw it was I collaboration with SOE who also made the game Free Realms and they did a tcg for that game as well. I need to find a Free Realms booster box if anyone can help me, all I can find is single packs on Amazon that haven't sold in years.
oh my, i love those "Force of Will" boxes , really great artwork luv it.
Thank You Derrium for the FOW - Rudy 2017
gregthebunny553 ha, that's what I said lol
yeah I saw their recent card shop life video and they were throwing this shit around and boxing it up to ship it somewhere. Makes sense to me
love to hear your thoughts on METW (Middle Earth the Wizards). only 4 or 5 expansions made for this that came out in the mid to late 90s. Box prices are expensive if you can find them. Great artwork in the set! When this game started fading they were almost giving boxes away. Wish I had picked more up back then.
Love this game. The artwork is incredible, many of the OG mtg artists
Hey Alpha, is there a way to get some of the Force of Will stuff? I just like to collect the cards for the art.
Hey there! I know this video is a few weeks old but I was wondering what did you do with the force of will stuff? I used to play force of will in tournaments and now i just collect stuff from it basically. Please let me know what you did with it or plan to do with it thanks!!
I got 30 Wyvern limited first edition starter decks for $2 a piece awhile back on a whim. Could you imagine Alpha starters going for that today if things were different?
I don't want to imagine that. Ever. Sadly it could happen one day if magic does die.
Oh, I think were pretty safe on that; besides, availability will prevent Alpha starter decks from every really decreasing in value. Wyvern was a TCG that came out in 1994 and was based around dragons and knights and had a VERY similar aesthetic feel to MTG. I'm not sure how much they printed, but you can find booster boxes for $29 and starter decks for $1-$3. I compare it to MTG only because it dropped at about the same time but is practically worthless today.
Andrew sd yeah I had some Wyvern back when it came out. The game has some decent artwork but it sucked and the quality of the cards sucked as well.
Yeah, I started reading through one of the rules books when I got the decks and the gameplay seemed pretty uninteresting. The card stock is definitely different from what Wizards used. It's sturdy, but I haven't tried shuffling without sleeves as would have been common in '94. I basically bought them for the artwork, which gives off that vintage/1970s fantasy aesthetic that drew me to mid-90s MTG.
Andrew sd Yup if I remember correctly one guy did all the artwork for the entire game.
What about vampire?
What's happening to the Force of Will TCG? Why was that one booster box so bad? (the one with the girl on it he had like 12 of)
Long shot you see this but I've been an advid collector of dead TCGs forever do you sell these sets? It's hard to find some of these sets
Still remember "Rage" I think I played it before or right at the same time I started MTG.
Haha; Your ad played for me when I clicked on this video
MTGHeadQuarters same. Still have a few. I was way too young for those cards.
MTGHeadQuarters LOVE YPUR NEW AD
+pod cast me too!
RAGE the Werewolf Apocalypse? I scored a sealed booster box of unlimited for $20 as a part of larger lot... Still debating what to do with it! Ideas?
Kudos to games such as MtG, Pokémon TCG, Yugioh and Cardfight Vanguard for survive for longer than 5 years
You do realize that mtg and pokemon are legit more then like 20 years old yeah...?
Rudy how many cards are in the original set ams the expansion. Would you be willing to sell a couple of each? I would like to have a complete set because i am a fan of tim Burton. Mayby even try playing it. Thanks for sharing. 😎
Hi Rudy!
Do you have (or know someone that have) Harry Potter TCG booster boxes or singles?
The only comments I see are people saying
"Why dont you open cards"
"Why dont you talk about why they fail"
"You could send some to supporters"
L5R did what myspace did and sold the rights to another company: fantasy flight
I know this video is pretty old, but are these available at all from you???? Id love to try some of them out
Anyone notice that box that says "Kaladesh inventions 10/1/18"? What is it?
If you actually find out some facts about the games and tell us about that rather than just randomly touch everything and repeat the same sentences five times in a row, and just assuming we know all about these tcgs, it would make for a more interesting video. I don't need to see you flipping the same booster box around for the 15th time saying "ye I don't know much about this stuff for the 5th time
I agree,
After reading this comment, i moved on from this vid
Thank you btw.
Figured he would've gone into detail, why it failed and when it did etc.
I played a lot of Marvel's Overpower in the early 2000s, but that game died SO FAST when the Pokemon craze really started to hit.
Where/how do you get the boxes for around 7$? the star wars ones look interesting.
Is force of will still going good?
Or can i buy the booster for cheap to play
lol no value? the lunya deck has 4 five dollar lightning strikes in it alone
Legend of the Five Rings ended up dying because the creators decided to scrap the idea of booster boxes and retailers all-together I believe. It was the factory itself that was selling the product, so stores wouldn't be able to pick up stock anymore, which ended up killing a lot of the player base.
After that they ended up selling the rights to L5R to Fantasy Flight, who is planning on turning it into a living card game like Game of Thrones/Star Wars/Netrunner/etc.
That's fascinating. I wonder if WotC shut down all their own stores back in the day to avoid a similar situation?
No? They had booster boxes and stores could buy the product just fine. It never "died", it was just sold.
The guy who owned the IP got sick of dealing with the printers and distributers and sold the IP to Fantasy Flight for a pretty penny, he now just makes Board Games.
Hi Tim!
Allo Tom =D
That reminds me. I think i still have a Blue Moon starter box at my partens house. Is that game still around?
I kind of want to get some of those now. Would be nice to have an alternative TCG night with the group. Kind of like playing exploding kittens or unstable unicorns
Is 7 dollars really worth that much to you?
@The Big Game Theory we do patreon and ad revenue now thi
chistine lane honestly I'm kinda glad he didn't bust those open. I really liked l5r didn't played it because I was into mtg. Ionly learned the game during his last month at my lgs. Those box for ppl like me are huge bubble of nostalgia.
When you have a business a lot of people who do these kinds of purchases will put it on the business' credit. So if he opens the product or it becomes destroyed that is money the business will always show as a lose. It's like throwing money away and not good for your books. I think he has also mentioned in his type of business, retail, that you always have product that doesn't move so I can see not wanting to add more lose. Technically for him to do an opening and it not be sabotaging his books is for him to re-buy the box from his own business. Meaning he will spend double the money to open one. And, of course, he is a business man. It goes against everything you been trying to learn and understand about running one. This is all somewhat speculative as I don't live in Florida. I have a buddy who started a business and learned a lot through his process.
Why is Force of Will dying? It seems pretty popular around my locals. If the cards aren't selling that well it might have something to do with them trying to do the stupid rotation system like Wizards do.
If it was more like Vanguard or Buddyfight, where every card is legal to play and they go back and give legacy support, then the older cards would probably retain value.
fishbass he explains that distributors have so much product they cannot unload because there's not enough demand down the line because there's no value in the box. The value of the cards won't appreciate, so you can't make money off the singles. It's great for the players, but he points out there's a balance that needed to be struck and when you flood the market with 3 printings of the rarest cards, that's not good for speculators
Allen Sorensen yeah the 2ndary market is unresponsive to tourney standings so prices are low and rarely fluctuate (only a hand full of cards break 10 bucks). I travel back and forth between New Orleans and Atlanta. Completely dead (as in shops can't lower the price enough to get rid of product) in New Orleans, still doing alright in ATL though.
Force of will has the problem where lots of people want to play, but stores don't want to stock the game. That's why there are apparently dead zones all throughout North America.
Other games can have the opposite problem, like maybe the Exodus card game. The low pull ratios and high prices makes it good for vendors, but barely anyone is playing the game.
Where are you buying these boxes for so cheap? Anyone know?
@Alpha Investments is there any chance you have any battle spirits sealed boxes for sell?
I bought the entire resident evil deck building game.
Didn't even open any boxes. Bullshit.
Hey any chance to get my hand on some of these? I've been looking to maybe get into FoW but idk if I wanna spend 80$ on a booster box. What would you be selling this product for?
How much do you wanna sell forthe force of will? For one box
Vingolf 2 contained absolute crap. That was the issue. There was zero reason for anyone to buy it.
it had dual stones for Alice Cluster,
and that's about it.
Captain Karnage and bad exclusive cards.
Cheshire I was all in on FoW and psyched they had the Valkyria Chronicles tie-in. Couldn't afford to keep up and quit about that time. Too bad the cards were bad!
For real. The card features, composition, and design were all utter crap. I have zero interest in it. There is a Vingolf 3 coming out, and those cards look amazing.
Emma Roush exactly. Too late though IMHO. I won't be purchasing any more FoW.
Soooo, where can us peasants find these tcgs and these low prices? I also buy dead tcgs but I can only find what I'm looking for on ebay and I'm definitely paying more then $6 a box.
Ever find a place? Lol
How do I contact Rudy I really want to talk to him about some of the force of will stuff I am willing to buy some if it but idk if it works like that
Anyone remember the old Magi Nation cards? I found a few sheets of these while going through my old Pokemon collection. Is Magi Nation even around any more, I've had these things since the 90s, hah!
i recently bought a booster box of the world of warcraft tcg to draft for nostalgia's sake, it was really cheap and we had a fun time
daniel escobedo some of the code cards are worth a ridiculous amount.
you should make a mtg economics 101 series
How much are you selling the different force of will for? I'm interested in buying
What site did u use for the clones wars adventures?
I dont see the harm in opening one box "oh no, I lost 7 dollars, what ever shall I do". I think the fact that you bought these in the first place lost you that money, whether you open them or not
the guy rudy is crazy about money
seeing thease dead TCGs makes me wish I could find some of the Fullmetal Alchemist boxes for cheap... I loved that card game.
Did you try Italian shops? I was looking into some lesser known tcgs and found full metal
Where do you find these at? btw. How much would you charge for that entire box of FoW stuff? Curious kinda want to play more of it
Just asking would u sell the seven kings of the lands booster box(Force of Will) and if so how much is it?
The Twilight Wanderer as well
One of the few CCG's I saw recently that were old was the Austin Powers card game. I bought a booster box. It's so awesome.
Gaming Enthusiast Chris cards like 'pit of liquid hot magma' were so funny.
Does it make you randy, baby?! Yeaaahhhh
*Jock Jams plays*
Firebert oh behave
Force of Will has been on the slow uptick ever since MOA (aka the Fallen Empires of Force of Will) crapped all over everyone. It's still a great game and the last 2 sets have been fantastic.
Vingolf 2 did so poorly because almost all of the cards in it were real bad.
Everyone's saying it's a sinking ship. How much longer is this uptick going to remian "slow" for?
Is there anywhere where I can buy some of the L5R stuff?
What would you sell that big box of force of will for? I just wanna collect some stuff for the art work
My favorite failure was Wyvern :D
L5R hell yeah.
7th sea
Spellfire
Towers in Time
Wyvern
Guardians
Ophidian 2350
Battle Spirits
Warlord
War Cry
Net Runner (wotc)
Battletech
Hecatomb
Dark Age
Spycraft
Rage
Yes I am very interested in dead tcg/ccg's
Have you heard about Ophidian 2360? A guy bought the license about a year ago and did an expansion for 2350. Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to do well because the guy is a middle-aged man who doesn't like collectibility therefore the cards are fixed so it's pretty lame.
I love a lot of your choices. Good tastes. Dark Age is my personal favorite from your list.
I did not know that, but I will keep an ear open. I'm intrigued to say the least but card fixing sucks.
Yea I love card games and that's just a small portion of what I have here, and still on the look out for others. So name some if you want I would love some recommendations.
FFXIK I've taken a backseat for dead card games for the moment since I'm concentrating on a few that require a lot of money to collect But I'd recommend: Quest for the Grail, Mythos, and Kult.
Thanks!
Haven't tried it myself, but I've heard good things about the Net Runner LCG.
Do you happen to have any booster boxes from the Inuyasha TCG? I'd interested in buying
Where can I get force of will for really cheap?
Rudy, do you have a 'take' on the My Little Pony CCG from Enterplay?
Mark Mason it's sick af.
I enjoy it. Almost impossible for me to find players. :(
Please be trolling
I ran the biggest MLP CCG singles dealer in the world for 2 years. I knew 4 of the 5 developers personally.
If you ever want to know anything about it I'm your guy - good or bad.
Do you know what your image implies?
L5R was fantastic. I was in a few tournaments and met people from all over the world. It had a small but mature fanbase. There was a storyline attached to tourney results, miss it a lot.
what is your website? I want to buy some of that FOW product please
Rudy, do you have any experience with Decipher Star Wars CCG or Star Trek CCGs?
What I dont understand is, why didnt you just buy 1 of each packs if you know that they have no value and you like them just to collect them?
Rita Rubary he's buying from wholesalers that give him a discount for bulk purchases. Rudy is always praying the price spikes on a random set while he's holding a larger quantity.
I see, but its still weird to do tho
The thing is, he will always be able to sell it for what he buys it for. But the chance that the price goes up for something collectible is worth the "cost" of space in his house/storage unit.
Sometimes if something has low value and you completely destroy the supply of the item you can artificially inflate the value of the collectibles which remain in the market. It's a great way to make money off of shit which basically has no value to anyone.
that makes sense
Force of will failed?
2 years later force of will is still kicking and pretty much alive.
@defmore89 well its not a game to invest in since theres no value in secondary market, but the company does well and the game is appreciated by its player base, thats SO much better than high value secondary market since that makes the game alive when everyone can play what they want without needing to spend a few hundred bucks on a deck
Where did you get the L5R Boxes from for that cheap?
What is the difference in a tcg from a ccg (except the''c'' and ''t'') ?