Whenever I'm in the comment sections about games like this, I can't help but be happy that my group is that committed and reliable. In the last weeks, we played a total of 20 hours of The Rise of Queensdale over three weekends, and once we're done with that, I'll get my hands on The King's Dilemma.
my pen and paper group is a bunch of weirdos, but at least i have whittled them down to people that play at least 5 hours every single week. It is glorious
You don't need 5 players. And the group doesn't have to be consistent (though obviously it will be better with a consistent group). Less players is fine so long as there isn't a big player-involvement discrepancy (people need to be involved in the game). With 5 people, it is ok for 1 or 2 to not be as serious, but with 3, everyone needs to be in it or else it wouldn't be fun.
@@zoozoc1 The thing with 3 player games is that triangle guarantees either one person is being ganged up on or two players are ensuring the third one wins. For some games, their design either ensure this isn't a problem, or they're complex enough that it's never quite obvious which thing is happening. But any game where voting or bidding is involved, it becomes a pretty big issue.
My answer is: Tabletop Simulator This is, how it works for us Also we're fine with some people not being in every session but that's up to you. But the TTS helps with the organizing
This game looks awesome...but who is this mysterious group of 5 total people that can play a board game for 9 hours straight?! That sounds straight up mythical to me. Wish I had such a dedicated group!
Speaking of megagames, I've been thinking about getting together a large group to play this where each player is assigned to a house and each house assigns a different player to play each session. So that each game would have that moment where players just go, "my parents were dingbats" while everybody in the sidelines holds their head in shame as they go, "my kid is a disapointment..."
First game I kept getting our money low for military and my best friend wanted money high. 2nd game someone asked my friend to vote Aye, he said "for 1 coin I will", he was handed a coin. I said "oh, so is that all it takes to buy the loyalty of House Orion? A single coin?" without missing a beat he replied "A single coin is all we'll have in our treasury if your house has anything to say about it.". We fist bumped, it was one of many great moments. There was also a moment of something terrible happening and my friend went "I'd hate anything to happen to my cousin, so please vote nay...while I pass for power."
This game is SOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOD! And I can totally see people hating it but for my group of friends, it's perfect. I've been a horrible scheming monster in our game and it's delightful.
@@luiscarlosqg - The fact that it's a legacy game is what makes the game work. It's like you're saying "Axis & Allies seems to be really good; it is a shame that it is a war game." The game is literally about your family's legacy.
@@luiscarlosqg If you're looking for a game that's inherently legacy by design but not an actual legacy game, Oath is coming out soon. But it plays absolutely nothing like this, so I wouldn't say they're comparable besides the generational thing.
I see SUSD New Video...I Click to view the video. I either agree or disagree. But I never think the quality of their content is bad. Keep up the excellent work SUSD and keep representing board games in a professional, genuine and funny way!
This was a work of art for a game review. This sounds like an amazing game and your advice about roleplaying was important... if I had 4 friends to play with I would buy this. But damn I would watch the Shut up and Sit down speed play this game. These are smart experienced players playing this game fast and wild. It would be a sight.
Quick request, can you just review bad games for the rest of the year? My bank have said they can't offer me any more loans to fund the purchasing of board games I'm not going to play because I can't get a group together
Yeah I am going to have a D&D game with this as the backdrop, Players play as the noble houses that create the Macro-Level circumstances in which the adventures have to deal with on a micro-level
I really love that you waited until the whole story was complete before posting the review. Other outlets tried to push the review early and kept saying they were not done yet. Good job SUSD
Finally got a copy of this after months of it being out of stock, we have a solid four man group and I can say that even with just four people it plays remarkably well. You'd think it frequently would devolve into 2 nays/2 ayes stalemates but no. The voting system in this game is beyond good, that money and power you get from abstaining makes it a viable option even when it goes against your best interests and it's also the only way to obtain the mighty Tiebreaker token. Frequently we all actively stayed away from tie votes because we knew the tiebreaker could just break them or encouraged more discussion. "Hey I know you voted for this outcome and you COULD use your tiebreaker token to force it through but hey bud, wouldn't ya like gold and maybe House Wolftooth owes ya favor down the road?" Ah! The way it handles LOSING the vote, my goodness, you get your power BACK if you lose where if you win the vote you lose that power to communal pool. So many times I'd make a big bet, regret it, and then breathe a sigh of relief when I lost and watch my opponents begrudgingly get what they wanted but also have to put their votes back into the pool. It is a delightful storytelling engine in the style of something closer to Dungeons and Dragons that I can't get enough of. My DnD group forgoes DnD to play this instead. So glad I was able to get a copy over Christmas as a gift to myself.
15:15 My group was kinda the opposite of this. Four of the five houses we picked ranged from kinda cosmopolitan to very cosmopolitan. By around the halfway point, my wealthy farming house was openly teaming up with the weird cult house (the one conservative house) to "make the people dumber" because all this knowledge was getting in the way of me getting any of my achievements.
Got my hands on this game. We’re 4-5 sessions in by the end of session 2 I hadn’t won a single vote without just having more authority than everyone else on the board and yet still I achieved my narrative goal. I’m loving this goal
We played King's Dilemma through to the end, largely on the strength of this review (and in fact I purchased "A War Of Whispers" because of their review of that game). KD is very good but its not so much a game, as it is an experience. Quinn's likening it to a "murder mystery dinner party" is spot on: sure, there are goals and points and scores and things but these ultimately don't mean anything. There is a "winner" (I in fact was the joint winner at the end of the game) but after literally weeks of playing with lots of decisions, deals and betrayals, thinking of the game as a binary "winner" or "loser" is very reductive. It is an abstract, narrative heavy, roleplaying experience of various political factions running a fantasy kingdom. If that sounds like your jam, you'll love it, and I would thoroughly recommend it with the caveat that only if you can get the same group together to play consistently over a couple of months. And I can't wait for the sequel.
Recently played and finished The Kings Dilemma. It was the best game experience I've ever had, and I'm now in mourning. We played with just 3 people but it really worked well. Over the course of the games it became more about soft power and bluffing. Before voting we would often lie about our intentions, sometimes this would result in a planned deadlock which the moderator would then exploit. Absolutely depends on the group of people you are playing with, but it can be an absolute blast with 3.
For anyone thinking about buying the game, it is pretty easy to play the game in such a way that it is replayable/re-sellable. Just use pencil to write instead of pen and don't place any of the stickers, just tape the non-stick backs to the board. For end-game stickers, simply reveal them but don't stick them to the manual (save the covers for resetting). When resetting the game, simply cover the end-game stickers with the covers via tape. Erase all of the pencil marks on everything. Put the cards back into their envelopes (all cards have markings that tell you where they go). The stickers are a bit harder since you can't put them back into the binding, but you can put them in order at least.
@@luiscarlosqg Something like this would've been amazing as a board game with a digital app. It did take over an hour to reset the game after playing it once. And for some people, that isn't worth the effort.
We're at game 11 of this gem, playing one night a week remotely (there's a nice Google Spreadsheet to keep track of everything - even the board). We're having a BLAST. We DO roleplay, yes, because it's intrinsically linked to the core fun and theme of the game. I cannot recommend this game enough if you're even slightly interested in GoT, politics in general, or just enjoy bickering about literally ANY topic. Also, KILLER review!
Our gaming group loves this game - in fact it has become our #1 favourite game. Will there be more? Is there a part 2 coming? Or will there be a new game with the core mechanics but a new skin and story?
12:23 "The players that are leading in crave want a bright future.... However, the players who are leading in crave want a dark future.." Hahaa nice review, have been looking forward to this one since i saw it anounced
With the stickers, markers and sealed envelopes this looks like is a one time play through .. is there a way to play to make it less 'permanent' if your group of players changes from session to session ?
No, there isn't. You could play the game with a changing group, by changing the houses (up to 15 different people), but since it's a legacy game, that's kinda pointless. The most fun part is seeing the storielines evolve, which just doesn't work with ever hanging groups.
Just finished the campaign with four players. Quinns' enthusiasm inspired me to get the group together and play. It took eighteen games. The first three were energised by the newness and nature of the mechanics. The next 15.5 games were a repetitive grind in which we had no idea of how we were going to use the prestige and / or crave we were gaining, or the comparative value between the two. It was just aimless as we built up our stocks of these resources not knowing how they'll be used. The last half hour we finally learned how prestige / crave were used and so it was a mad dash to the finish. Also, we found no 'rubber banding' to level the playing field for the fourth player who joined in game three. She was also at a disadvantage the entire game having had less time to collect prestige / crave. I respect Quinns' opinions but, for our group, this was the worst gaming experience of the year.
Yep, the fun that people will get out of this game is based more on the players and the conditions of play and less on the game's design. Even though the base game loop - voting and seeing consequences play out - is good, the game is powerless in helping players to avoid bad experiences... Someone joined the game late - they will always be behind in both crowns and knowledge in how the game works... As an exmaple...
As long as you can get someone to fill in, definitely. In a way that's actually more thematic since it is a generational story where house leadership would inevitably change. Whether popping houses in and out would work though, I cannot say. Although that would be interesting to try.
Absolutely love this concept!! I was inspired to build something similar, a castle/island surrounded by a ring of train tracks with a wall and a moat, but never really got too far with it. Might pick that back up again as you work on this one. Can’t wait to see where this goes!
"The players who are leading in crave would like..." later: "However the players who are leading in crave would rather"? Wait what? Shouldn't one of these have been prestige?
Quinn I’m just happy that you come dressed for your videos and make an effort with your style. The board game content on youtube is often talking heads, shitty angles, no edits and terrible terrible outfits
I sure wish I had friends outside of the internet I could play all these board games I keep buying on SUASD's recommendation. Oh well. At least the boxes look pretty on my shelves.
Don't give up. Look for a board game cafe or a board game meet up in your area, and if you keep going you'll find people you click with.. who would love to play some of the games you have shared interests with. It's not as hard as you think, because there are absolutely other people in your area who are hunting for people to play their games with as well. :)
We into our 5th game and loving it so far. Tried prequel at Essen and really enjoyed it. Best of all is by using removable stickers, it has been possible to preserve it so far!
I am totally with Quinn's on this one. King's Dilemma is my favorite game from 2019. I'm actually playing two separate campaigns of it with two different groups and from the very first game the two groups went along completely different paths in the branching stories and have very different houses in their councils. It's one of the rare games both groups have sat down and voluntarily opted to play two or three rounds at a time just to continue seeing what happens in it. And, like Quinn's said, it's hilarious as you try to "justify" doing really horrible things simply because, for your current house, you want a certain slider to go down instead of up. 😈 The main issue I might have with the game are that it definitely plays best if you can keep playing with the same group of four or five people over and over a couple dozen times. Because of the way the stories progress and your individual houses evolve and "check off boxes" it would be far less satisfying to have certain houses and players dropping in and out of individual games. The individual games are short, about an hour or so, but the overall time commitment might be problematic depending on the regularity of your game group. And, of course, it's a one-shot playthrough per game. So if, like me, you want to play more than once you have to buy a new copy of the game. Which isn't TOO bad considering how many hours of enjoyment you get out of each purchase, but it's certainly not something to do unless you can be SURE you're going to actually be able to play completely through it more than once. Otherwise it's a fantastic game, I can't sing its praises enough. The gameplay is good and the writing is fantastic and the decisions you make are often quite interesting. I'll be very interested to see if they do a King's Dilemma sequel or a new game with a similar system. P.S. And buy yourself a small toy gavel on the side for whoever is the Moderator each round. It's well worth the couple of bucks. 😉
Curious about the last point about justifying morally horrible actions. Is that actually part of the game strategy/mechanics, or just roleplaying flavor on top? It is hard to imagine trying to convince another player to vote on something based on some value outside of game mechanics, but maybe I am misunderstanding. Can you explain how the ethics of the dilemmas factor in? Genuinely curious as I am considering buying this game. thanks!
How well d'you reckon this would work if you had the same houses but one or two different players representing them? I think I can get enough people to play this but I don't think I can consistently get the same five.
I've always been interested in this idea, and while I can't comment on King's Dilemma, I believe Oath is going to satisfy that kind of desire, so I'm excited to pick that up.
The idea of the game is that there is a campaign of 15 individual games and each individual game is one generation of people. So... By definition, it makes sense that for game nr.1 you would have Bob lead house "A", but for game nr.2 Bob can't make it and Lucy leads house "A" in his stead. AKA Lucy is now playing as Bob`s descendant now. This makes sense, but... 1. Not everyone (Bob) might like the idea that someone else (Lucy) is going to play as their house. 2. Many (Lucy) might not like the house they get to play In someone else's stead. The way to fix this could be to choose houses as teams. Lucy AND Bob choose to play house A together and they agree that if one can`t make it the other one can join in. 3. Another fix... You could allow people, if they join the game later, to choose one of the houses that have not been picked already, but that means (possibly) that the houses that have been there for all the 15 games might acquire more prestige/crave to win the game and the houses that were present for fewer games - might not even have a chance. I have not finished the game with my group yet, so I can`t provide evidence whether this is the case. 4. There might be an issue that those players who get to play all 15 games will know the mechanics better than the ones that only come to play sometimes. If you can figure out how to manage this/prepare you group, then this can work.
Thank you for the great review! This game is right up my gaming group’s alley! I have to ask, wasn’t there supposed to be a new podcast put up yesterday?
I do appreciate your reviews. However, because of your positive review, I will never get to play this game. Everything is sold out, or charging $300, and this makes me sad.
Great review. The game looks like one I would love to watch, but I really can't get into playing these sort of games. I'm not someone who is good at the whole bringing out characters or getting into the manipulation. Maybe with the right group I could get into it, but that isn't today.
After finishing 2nd risk legacy, where games sometimes can snowball to be finished in 3-4 turns, lead to every turn of discussions of 10mins to a 45 mins discussions, deals, convincing etc. This kings dilemma feels perfect for our group.
Is it possible to play this game with a rotating group of players in the sence that that someone isn't occasionally there to play? Our group consists sometimes out of four, five or six. Would it be feasible to get on with some missing and then on later given game could they join again?
Oh boy, there's so much British banter in here that I feel my crumpet moisten. The only thing more tragic is I can't seem to get hold of this game anywhere! Rawrrr! I will certainly keep an eye for it however. It sounds incredible.
Thank you for review - matches my impressions.I wrote my review on BGG couple of months ago: "Love this game but it should be played properly. 4-5 players to get the most from it. People here are the main source of incredible joy. You all turn into vicious and backstabbing politicians, hiding their goals, in the game where every alliance, participation, decision has its price. You can outwit or be outwitted like nowhere else! Game of Thrones is an easy breeze in comparison because in GOT protagonists sometimes could make a break and just start slaughtering each other. Here for you victory you need to negotiate and gamble. Or may be not. May be you are idealist and have values. Happiness and prosperity of the people of Ankist, in the way how you understand it, matter to you above all other things. You will see plenty of situations, where people express the best of them as well. It is so far incredible fun for us."
one minute ago gang. But also interested how there's now a bunch of GoT-esque political intrigue games cropping up Edit: This looks very fun... but no way I'd consistently get people together to play this :(
I found this game in a Mystery Box. I've always seen it with curiosity on various shelves and now that I'm beginning to understand it... I'm really going crazy to find the other 4 right players and start devouring it.
This looks like a lot of fun, but definitely also something I will likely never play. Always a concern for legacy games is the need to get the same people together over and over again. Played a bit of Gloomhaven with a couple friends til one of them moved, and after getting married recently, I am currently playing through Clank! Legacy with my wife and that is great. I actually still have Aeon's End Legacy and Pandemic Legacy in shrink on my shelf... Probably will play through them both with my wife, but King's Dilemma even needing 3 is too much. Hopefully my wife will be into a Gloomhaven type of game (will try some Descent or something first) as that or the upcoming Frosthaven would be pretty cool to play through. I think playing with friends is going to not include any legacy games though. I like these reviews better than your old style, with the long, drawn out theater/bits in them. The amount in say, your Nemesis review is solid. Nothing wrong with it in there, but I like it best when it doesn't detract from the review so much as I feel it does in many of your past reviews. Keep up the great work!
Oh god, I know I would absolutely love this game. However, I know that I see all the people I could play this with maybe once a year. Still, I'll probably buy this, and let it collect dust while looking at it every once in a while to daydream of the good times that could've been.
Two reliable 9 hour gaming sessions with a dedicated group of 5 players? Never heard of such nonsense.
Whenever I'm in the comment sections about games like this, I can't help but be happy that my group is that committed and reliable. In the last weeks, we played a total of 20 hours of The Rise of Queensdale over three weekends, and once we're done with that, I'll get my hands on The King's Dilemma.
those happy few.
Jeanot Rilow best of luck. I can’t get it. But. Canada.
When it's your job, you kinda make the effort to get something like that done on a regular basis, just like a regular 8-9 hour workday. But fun... ;-)
my pen and paper group is a bunch of weirdos, but at least i have whittled them down to people that play at least 5 hours every single week. It is glorious
I'm just gonna say this: no one reviews a game better than Quinns...
I've lost so much money due to his enthusiasm
@@Lowkey-NoPressure That is why I love No Pun Included - a lot less enthusiasm :D
@@Lowkey-NoPressure but how much joy have you received in return? Quinns is the best board game reviewer, the tabletop universe's Marie Kondo
He really is the best. It must be crazy to be THE BEST at something in the whole friggin world! :D
@@psid9907 I think he might be the anti-Marie Kondo given that he's encouraging you to fill your house with large boxes full of stuff.
Another game i’d love to play but never will due to time constraints and having a consistent 5 player group.
RIP for those of us gamers without gamer friends
You don't need 5 players. And the group doesn't have to be consistent (though obviously it will be better with a consistent group). Less players is fine so long as there isn't a big player-involvement discrepancy (people need to be involved in the game). With 5 people, it is ok for 1 or 2 to not be as serious, but with 3, everyone needs to be in it or else it wouldn't be fun.
But the review was still aces!
@@zoozoc1 The thing with 3 player games is that triangle guarantees either one person is being ganged up on or two players are ensuring the third one wins. For some games, their design either ensure this isn't a problem, or they're complex enough that it's never quite obvious which thing is happening. But any game where voting or bidding is involved, it becomes a pretty big issue.
My answer is: Tabletop Simulator
This is, how it works for us
Also we're fine with some people not being in every session but that's up to you.
But the TTS helps with the organizing
“The Council recognizes the validity of this coupon.” Golden; just golden
Ha ha how he pronounces 'coupon'
Bro I never remember saying that
This game looks awesome...but who is this mysterious group of 5 total people that can play a board game for 9 hours straight?! That sounds straight up mythical to me. Wish I had such a dedicated group!
'sigh'
12:16 did you mean to say “Prestige” here? You said “leading in Crave” twice.
No.
No.
Yes. Prestige then crave.
The votes are in and it appears the "Nay"s have it. Quinns did not mean to say Prestige.
Pass.
Speaking of megagames, I've been thinking about getting together a large group to play this where each player is assigned to a house and each house assigns a different player to play each session. So that each game would have that moment where players just go, "my parents were dingbats" while everybody in the sidelines holds their head in shame as they go, "my kid is a disapointment..."
et2neoh lol
This is brilliant
First game I kept getting our money low for military and my best friend wanted money high.
2nd game someone asked my friend to vote Aye, he said "for 1 coin I will", he was handed a coin. I said "oh, so is that all it takes to buy the loyalty of House Orion? A single coin?" without missing a beat he replied "A single coin is all we'll have in our treasury if your house has anything to say about it.".
We fist bumped, it was one of many great moments.
There was also a moment of something terrible happening and my friend went "I'd hate anything to happen to my cousin, so please vote nay...while I pass for power."
This sounds like a great game to throw off all the math nerds I play with. Euro games with engineers and computer scientists sucks if you’re not one.
I'm the only maths guy in my group. It sucks too.
The Cooler Rats: or, as my wife puts it, _”It’s like I live in The Big Bang Theory!!”_
(It also sucks if you're one, but want to forget that to have a fun evening)
Realizing that this is how actual politicians deal with people's actual lives is peak 2020.
What?
What you do get to do is fill in little boxes
Shut up and take my money.
"I'm in the middle of a review! Shut up and sit down!"
7:38 So Apartheid is a widely debated subject in your circle... I SEE HOW THIS IS
15:24
The alternative recommendation at the end is a nice feature! I'm happy every time I get one.
"Prestige" as in "prestigious"
"Crave" as in "craven"
Crave is a measure of how ruthless you are, measured by how few ruths you possess.
Used here, crave is the craving for personal power, not the indication that you are craven.
@@Dehalove Give him a break, he's keeping 3 Ruth's in his basement
@@cpeterso
Ruthful, indeed.
Except craven means "cowardly" and not "ruthless"...
Used here, crave is the craving for White Castle, a hankering which only becomes stronger as you indulge it.
9 hours straight?? Quinns how do i become part of your play group
Literally
The only explanation is that he's luring unsuspecting players in with his copious Star Wars miniatures and then kidnapping them
Players heaven.
Nine hours sounds brutal! I feel like I start to flag after about 4-5 hours.
My gaming group sometimes have 12 or even 14 hour session!
Once a month on a Saturday we start at 12:00PM and end whenever we pass out.
This game is SOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOD! And I can totally see people hating it but for my group of friends, it's perfect. I've been a horrible scheming monster in our game and it's delightful.
Yeah! It seems to be really good. It is a shame it is a legacy game :(
@@luiscarlosqg - The fact that it's a legacy game is what makes the game work. It's like you're saying "Axis & Allies seems to be really good; it is a shame that it is a war game." The game is literally about your family's legacy.
@@luiscarlosqg If you're looking for a game that's inherently legacy by design but not an actual legacy game, Oath is coming out soon. But it plays absolutely nothing like this, so I wouldn't say they're comparable besides the generational thing.
I used to be tempted by kickstarter projects, now i'm just buying all games Su&Sd reviews...
Liked for 'fading out a medieval backing track'
I see SUSD New Video...I Click to view the video. I either agree or disagree. But I never think the quality of their content is bad. Keep up the excellent work SUSD and keep representing board games in a professional, genuine and funny way!
This was a work of art for a game review. This sounds like an amazing game and your advice about roleplaying was important... if I had 4 friends to play with I would buy this. But damn I would watch the Shut up and Sit down speed play this game. These are smart experienced players playing this game fast and wild. It would be a sight.
Quinns, you’ve truly outdone yourself this time. That hotdog metaphor was pure poetry.
That “since crokinole” has a lot of weight on it hahaha
Just thinking about sharing the 'ban it, ban it, ban it!' experience with my friends made me misty eyed and hopeful. Great review!
Quick request, can you just review bad games for the rest of the year? My bank have said they can't offer me any more loans to fund the purchasing of board games I'm not going to play because I can't get a group together
Yeah I am going to have a D&D game with this as the backdrop, Players play as the noble houses that create the Macro-Level circumstances in which the adventures have to deal with on a micro-level
I really love that you waited until the whole story was complete before posting the review. Other outlets tried to push the review early and kept saying they were not done yet. Good job SUSD
Finally got a copy of this after months of it being out of stock, we have a solid four man group and I can say that even with just four people it plays remarkably well. You'd think it frequently would devolve into 2 nays/2 ayes stalemates but no. The voting system in this game is beyond good, that money and power you get from abstaining makes it a viable option even when it goes against your best interests and it's also the only way to obtain the mighty Tiebreaker token. Frequently we all actively stayed away from tie votes because we knew the tiebreaker could just break them or encouraged more discussion.
"Hey I know you voted for this outcome and you COULD use your tiebreaker token to force it through but hey bud, wouldn't ya like gold and maybe House Wolftooth owes ya favor down the road?"
Ah! The way it handles LOSING the vote, my goodness, you get your power BACK if you lose where if you win the vote you lose that power to communal pool. So many times I'd make a big bet, regret it, and then breathe a sigh of relief when I lost and watch my opponents begrudgingly get what they wanted but also have to put their votes back into the pool.
It is a delightful storytelling engine in the style of something closer to Dungeons and Dragons that I can't get enough of. My DnD group forgoes DnD to play this instead. So glad I was able to get a copy over Christmas as a gift to myself.
15:15 My group was kinda the opposite of this. Four of the five houses we picked ranged from kinda cosmopolitan to very cosmopolitan. By around the halfway point, my wealthy farming house was openly teaming up with the weird cult house (the one conservative house) to "make the people dumber" because all this knowledge was getting in the way of me getting any of my achievements.
16:23 Boom Mic IV, the self-reflective reboot simply titled: _Boom_ _Mic_
Got my hands on this game. We’re 4-5 sessions in by the end of session 2 I hadn’t won a single vote without just having more authority than everyone else on the board and yet still I achieved my narrative goal. I’m loving this goal
First time seeing one of this man's reviews. He has absolute perfect melody and pacing in his lines. A delight to listen to. I am now subsribed!
Watch his Captain Sonar review! Excellent analysis and shows his passion for games. First review of his that I saw. :)
Sounds like my kind of game, just a shame I'm never going to experience this. Just no friends like yours and boring life and obligations in the way..
16:13 Awww man, I always imagined there's a person behind the camera in those reviews, but the mirror reveals the truth! Now it feels so lonely!
Sometimes there is.
We played King's Dilemma through to the end, largely on the strength of this review (and in fact I purchased "A War Of Whispers" because of their review of that game).
KD is very good but its not so much a game, as it is an experience. Quinn's likening it to a "murder mystery dinner party" is spot on: sure, there are goals and points and scores and things but these ultimately don't mean anything.
There is a "winner" (I in fact was the joint winner at the end of the game) but after literally weeks of playing with lots of decisions, deals and betrayals, thinking of the game as a binary "winner" or "loser" is very reductive.
It is an abstract, narrative heavy, roleplaying experience of various political factions running a fantasy kingdom. If that sounds like your jam, you'll love it, and I would thoroughly recommend it with the caveat that only if you can get the same group together to play consistently over a couple of months.
And I can't wait for the sequel.
Which of the games did you prefer?
Recently played and finished The Kings Dilemma. It was the best game experience I've ever had, and I'm now in mourning.
We played with just 3 people but it really worked well. Over the course of the games it became more about soft power and bluffing. Before voting we would often lie about our intentions, sometimes this would result in a planned deadlock which the moderator would then exploit. Absolutely depends on the group of people you are playing with, but it can be an absolute blast with 3.
How much did your group lean into roleplay?
You'll be glad to know Horrible Games is planning on a kickstarter for The Queen's Dilemma.
@@LightPink No so much role play but we definitely played towards our house goals.
@@Pabor yep, can't wait!
For anyone thinking about buying the game, it is pretty easy to play the game in such a way that it is replayable/re-sellable. Just use pencil to write instead of pen and don't place any of the stickers, just tape the non-stick backs to the board. For end-game stickers, simply reveal them but don't stick them to the manual (save the covers for resetting).
When resetting the game, simply cover the end-game stickers with the covers via tape. Erase all of the pencil marks on everything. Put the cards back into their envelopes (all cards have markings that tell you where they go). The stickers are a bit harder since you can't put them back into the binding, but you can put them in order at least.
Yeah, it would have been nice if the had done it replayable by default.
@@luiscarlosqg Something like this would've been amazing as a board game with a digital app. It did take over an hour to reset the game after playing it once. And for some people, that isn't worth the effort.
Thank you for your feedback. At least now we know it is possible to reset the game if you really try. Good job!
Actual ultimate game of thrones board game, come on you can't just make me regret a war of whispers like that!
I think it is absolutely fine owning both tbh, a war of whispers is a fast game of deduction and war, while this seems to be mostly negotiation
Hey, if you're looking to get rid of it I can't get it anywhere so hit me up! 😇
We're at game 11 of this gem, playing one night a week remotely (there's a nice Google Spreadsheet to keep track of everything - even the board). We're having a BLAST. We DO roleplay, yes, because it's intrinsically linked to the core fun and theme of the game. I cannot recommend this game enough if you're even slightly interested in GoT, politics in general, or just enjoy bickering about literally ANY topic.
Also, KILLER review!
By any chance, do you have a link to the spreadsheet? Thanks!
Oh wow the central mechanic really is just Reigns. It's a cool mechanic, thematic and yet simple. Glad to see it getting around.
We're halfway through, I built a trophy for the winner of each round that gets passed between us... SUCH a good game!!
Our gaming group loves this game - in fact it has become our #1 favourite game. Will there be more? Is there a part 2 coming? Or will there be a new game with the core mechanics but a new skin and story?
12:23 "The players that are leading in crave want a bright future.... However, the players who are leading in crave want a dark future.."
Hahaa nice review, have been looking forward to this one since i saw it anounced
So it's the board game version of the video game Reigns?
And it's multiplayer.
The funny thing is there is already a board game version of Reigns :D
@@luketfer Ironically that game will arrive after this one. It's more of a party game, too.
1:40 that song is also used by useful charts as their intro. It's a really cool song
Board Game of the year for me, best 2019 game we had so much fun I can't even describe it with words. Pure joy.
"the buggar is gone... and there's no mess!" Love that line.
Banger, unAmerican English for Hotdog/Sausage.
With the stickers, markers and sealed envelopes this looks like is a one time play through .. is there a way to play to make it less 'permanent' if your group of players changes from session to session ?
No, there isn't. You could play the game with a changing group, by changing the houses (up to 15 different people), but since it's a legacy game, that's kinda pointless. The most fun part is seeing the storielines evolve, which just doesn't work with ever hanging groups.
Just finished the campaign with four players. Quinns' enthusiasm inspired me to get the group together and play. It took eighteen games. The first three were energised by the newness and nature of the mechanics. The next 15.5 games were a repetitive grind in which we had no idea of how we were going to use the prestige and / or crave we were gaining, or the comparative value between the two. It was just aimless as we built up our stocks of these resources not knowing how they'll be used. The last half hour we finally learned how prestige / crave were used and so it was a mad dash to the finish. Also, we found no 'rubber banding' to level the playing field for the fourth player who joined in game three. She was also at a disadvantage the entire game having had less time to collect prestige / crave. I respect Quinns' opinions but, for our group, this was the worst gaming experience of the year.
Yep, the fun that people will get out of this game is based more on the players and the conditions of play and less on the game's design. Even though the base game loop - voting and seeing consequences play out - is good, the game is powerless in helping players to avoid bad experiences... Someone joined the game late - they will always be behind in both crowns and knowledge in how the game works... As an exmaple...
Great Review as always ... can this game handle players dropping in and out of sessions?
As long as you can get someone to fill in, definitely. In a way that's actually more thematic since it is a generational story where house leadership would inevitably change. Whether popping houses in and out would work though, I cannot say. Although that would be interesting to try.
Absolutely love this concept!! I was inspired to build something similar, a castle/island surrounded by a ring of train tracks with a wall and a moat, but never really got too far with it. Might pick that back up again as you work on this one. Can’t wait to see where this goes!
10:45 wow! WOW! Rude! What if the dog wanted to play, Quinn?
"The players who are leading in crave would like..." later: "However the players who are leading in crave would rather"? Wait what? Shouldn't one of these have been prestige?
The first one! It's at 12:20 if Quinns reads this.
Quinn I’m just happy that you come dressed for your videos and make an effort with your style. The board game content on youtube is often talking heads, shitty angles, no edits and terrible terrible outfits
Ilqr D. Yeah lol. NPI is generally good as well
Now that myself and my friends all have kids, getting together to play games is so hard. God I wish I could play this game.
You guys are my only subscribed boardgame reviewers that make me want to buy games I otherwise wouldn't even look at. Brilliant!
My friends and I have been playing this game and are nearing the end. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
Well... Now I have to buy this as well.
Please keep on destroying my bank account with your quality content, I love it.
I sure wish I had friends outside of the internet I could play all these board games I keep buying on SUASD's recommendation. Oh well. At least the boxes look pretty on my shelves.
Don't give up. Look for a board game cafe or a board game meet up in your area, and if you keep going you'll find people you click with.. who would love to play some of the games you have shared interests with. It's not as hard as you think, because there are absolutely other people in your area who are hunting for people to play their games with as well. :)
We into our 5th game and loving it so far. Tried prequel at Essen and really enjoyed it. Best of all is by using removable stickers, it has been possible to preserve it so far!
I've been looking for removable stickers for this! Where did you buy them?
@@johnlouis5031 need some cutting to size but easy enough to do. So far working!
smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007JWGSGM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_2VCuEb2F7RDN6
Great painting at the end of the table.
I never thought I would hear “Addictive” and “Political” in the same sentence
So much of Facebook's business model is people getting hooked on arguing politics (among other things)😊
I am totally with Quinn's on this one. King's Dilemma is my favorite game from 2019. I'm actually playing two separate campaigns of it with two different groups and from the very first game the two groups went along completely different paths in the branching stories and have very different houses in their councils. It's one of the rare games both groups have sat down and voluntarily opted to play two or three rounds at a time just to continue seeing what happens in it. And, like Quinn's said, it's hilarious as you try to "justify" doing really horrible things simply because, for your current house, you want a certain slider to go down instead of up. 😈
The main issue I might have with the game are that it definitely plays best if you can keep playing with the same group of four or five people over and over a couple dozen times. Because of the way the stories progress and your individual houses evolve and "check off boxes" it would be far less satisfying to have certain houses and players dropping in and out of individual games. The individual games are short, about an hour or so, but the overall time commitment might be problematic depending on the regularity of your game group.
And, of course, it's a one-shot playthrough per game. So if, like me, you want to play more than once you have to buy a new copy of the game. Which isn't TOO bad considering how many hours of enjoyment you get out of each purchase, but it's certainly not something to do unless you can be SURE you're going to actually be able to play completely through it more than once.
Otherwise it's a fantastic game, I can't sing its praises enough. The gameplay is good and the writing is fantastic and the decisions you make are often quite interesting. I'll be very interested to see if they do a King's Dilemma sequel or a new game with a similar system.
P.S. And buy yourself a small toy gavel on the side for whoever is the Moderator each round. It's well worth the couple of bucks. 😉
no replayability on this one? how about i play a different role or House the 2nd game? will it give me different experience?
Curious about the last point about justifying morally horrible actions. Is that actually part of the game strategy/mechanics, or just roleplaying flavor on top? It is hard to imagine trying to convince another player to vote on something based on some value outside of game mechanics, but maybe I am misunderstanding. Can you explain how the ethics of the dilemmas factor in? Genuinely curious as I am considering buying this game. thanks!
How well d'you reckon this would work if you had the same houses but one or two different players representing them? I think I can get enough people to play this but I don't think I can consistently get the same five.
I've always been interested in this idea, and while I can't comment on King's Dilemma, I believe Oath is going to satisfy that kind of desire, so I'm excited to pick that up.
The idea of the game is that there is a campaign of 15 individual games and each individual game is one generation of people. So... By definition, it makes sense that for game nr.1 you would have Bob lead house "A", but for game nr.2 Bob can't make it and Lucy leads house "A" in his stead. AKA Lucy is now playing as Bob`s descendant now.
This makes sense, but...
1. Not everyone (Bob) might like the idea that someone else (Lucy) is going to play as their house.
2. Many (Lucy) might not like the house they get to play In someone else's stead. The way to fix this could be to choose houses as teams. Lucy AND Bob choose to play house A together and they agree that if one can`t make it the other one can join in.
3. Another fix... You could allow people, if they join the game later, to choose one of the houses that have not been picked already, but that means (possibly) that the houses that have been there for all the 15 games might acquire more prestige/crave to win the game and the houses that were present for fewer games - might not even have a chance. I have not finished the game with my group yet, so I can`t provide evidence whether this is the case.
4. There might be an issue that those players who get to play all 15 games will know the mechanics better than the ones that only come to play sometimes.
If you can figure out how to manage this/prepare you group, then this can work.
I was at the edge of my seat watching red wine being poured back into the bottle next to a boardgame.
Thank you for the great review! This game is right up my gaming group’s alley! I have to ask, wasn’t there supposed to be a new podcast put up yesterday?
I feel like we need a gameplay of this! It would be awesome if you could release the video of your group's games. Great review, as always!
10:40 A Kylie sighting! Yay.
SU & SD Is officially my Kickstarter guiding light
SUSD Review Warning: Quick, buy this game before it is sold out everywhere.
SapSapient I know it’s not is stock till 2021
I do appreciate your reviews. However, because of your positive review, I will never get to play this game. Everything is sold out, or charging $300, and this makes me sad.
Heya, dunno if you'll see this, but I recently managed to pick up this game on Amazon for around $70, so it might be back in stock in some places?
As of this comment my group is about halfway through the campaign, this review is pretty spot on. Very enjoyable with 5 players.
Bought this about a week before the lockdown. I look it at it longingly waiting for the day when I will finally play it with my game group....
Ok, it is a legacy game, but damn I was nervous while he poured the wine into the bottle over the game...
Didn't he just ruin it with the marker?
@@soppoi123 A marker strangely did not elicit such a gut feeling of panic as the wine :D Maybe due to the legacy aspect.
Great review. The game looks like one I would love to watch, but I really can't get into playing these sort of games. I'm not someone who is good at the whole bringing out characters or getting into the manipulation. Maybe with the right group I could get into it, but that isn't today.
Quinns does not understand what a spike is in volleyball 0:45
After finishing 2nd risk legacy, where games sometimes can snowball to be finished in 3-4 turns, lead to every turn of discussions of 10mins to a 45 mins discussions, deals, convincing etc. This kings dilemma feels perfect for our group.
SU&SD are my new favorite Reviewers.
Would you guys ever consider doing special episodes where you played new games/prototypes of up and coming board game designers? That could be awesome
Lately when I see a game shoot up the hot track on BGG it's because of you guys
I seem to use these videos as a kind of anti-depressant...
Great video and the game looks wonderful but where can I get it?!
Is it possible to play this game with a rotating group of players in the sence that that someone isn't occasionally there to play? Our group consists sometimes out of four, five or six. Would it be feasible to get on with some missing and then on later given game could they join again?
Oh boy, there's so much British banter in here that I feel my crumpet moisten. The only thing more tragic is I can't seem to get hold of this game anywhere! Rawrrr!
I will certainly keep an eye for it however. It sounds incredible.
Quinn’s and the team need to look into Shasn (delivering to KSers this year). Basically a similar concept but with replayability and area control.
That shot at 6 minutes. ooooo cinematic glory. feels good.
Thank you for review - matches my impressions.I wrote my review on BGG couple of months ago:
"Love this game but it should be played properly. 4-5 players to get the most from it.
People here are the main source of incredible joy.
You all turn into vicious and backstabbing politicians, hiding their goals, in the game where every alliance, participation, decision has its price. You can outwit or be outwitted like nowhere else! Game of Thrones is an easy breeze in comparison because in GOT protagonists sometimes could make a break and just start slaughtering each other.
Here for you victory you need to negotiate and gamble.
Or may be not. May be you are idealist and have values. Happiness and prosperity of the people of Ankist, in the way how you understand it, matter to you above all other things. You will see plenty of situations, where people express the best of them as well.
It is so far incredible fun for us."
You were very very convincing...... I may end up having to get this
I wanna see them record another mega game. That was neat to watch.
one minute ago gang. But also interested how there's now a bunch of GoT-esque political intrigue games cropping up
Edit: This looks very fun... but no way I'd consistently get people together to play this :(
It's because everyone wants to write a better ending to the show.
Political games always existed,we are noticing them more now because of the influence of the show
As an Italian I feel offended by that wine thing you did
I would love to see this guy and his friends play this game
I found this game in a Mystery Box. I've always seen it with curiosity on various shelves and now that I'm beginning to understand it... I'm really going crazy to find the other 4 right players and start devouring it.
11:16 aaah, he knows that's the stuff
This looks like a lot of fun, but definitely also something I will likely never play. Always a concern for legacy games is the need to get the same people together over and over again. Played a bit of Gloomhaven with a couple friends til one of them moved, and after getting married recently, I am currently playing through Clank! Legacy with my wife and that is great. I actually still have Aeon's End Legacy and Pandemic Legacy in shrink on my shelf... Probably will play through them both with my wife, but King's Dilemma even needing 3 is too much. Hopefully my wife will be into a Gloomhaven type of game (will try some Descent or something first) as that or the upcoming Frosthaven would be pretty cool to play through. I think playing with friends is going to not include any legacy games though.
I like these reviews better than your old style, with the long, drawn out theater/bits in them. The amount in say, your Nemesis review is solid. Nothing wrong with it in there, but I like it best when it doesn't detract from the review so much as I feel it does in many of your past reviews. Keep up the great work!
I see a lot of writing on cards and ripping open envelopes. Do you need to buy more supplies for it or can everything be reused?
They can`t be re-used unless you are willing to do extra admin + there are no extra supplies. You have to re-buy the whole thing.
Your reports are great, as always. But if I keep seeing drinks next to the board, I'm going to have a heart attack. Greetings from Buenos Aires.
Just finished our copy last weekend. 11/10. Highly recommend!
After coming off of a week-long CK2 binge, hearing the background music had me freaking out thinking i left the game on.
Oh god, I know I would absolutely love this game. However, I know that I see all the people I could play this with maybe once a year. Still, I'll probably buy this, and let it collect dust while looking at it every once in a while to daydream of the good times that could've been.
Review we’re doomed. It has a similar political feel and cards that love to throw wrenches into time sensitive matters.