Thank you. Excellent review. I always like to look at a reviewer's face when driving the car and their level of excitement. Your expression driving the R said it all.
Thanks Lee for producing these videos. I really appreciate the effort and time that must go into making them. They are so spot on for what I want to see and hear about 911's from the 996s to the R's and GT3s. Thanks.
Wow!!! A Guards Red GT3 Touring, dream car for me!! I couldn´t get the GT3 but I got a slot for a GTS, so now I drive a Guards Red GTS with PDK. I have twins so the backseats are great, but the GT3 Touring.......! My god!! Happy to have found this channel, you got yourself a new subscriber!! :)
Thanks indeed for the kind words! Glad you got yourself a GTS and found a use for the rear seats, goes to show there really is a 911 out there for everyone. I'm sure the twins will love the ride as much as you - start 'em young!
A good comparison tbh. In the Touring model is that reflected in its 10% devision between it and the 911R? Pound for pound with money no object which car would you chose the GT3 Touring or the 911R? Thanks
have not driven touring, but if he said its like 991R then the shifter is much lighter than GT4 requiring less effort to move the lever. The clutch on the R is much lighter as well.
Hi Lee, Can I correct a couple of errors from this video? The Clubsport at max speed has say 160kg of downforce whilst the Touring has about 50kg. As the CS has to support an extra 100kg it has stiffer suspension than the T. Porsche produce three body widths and the GT3 (non RS) is the mid width. The R was the narrow width. The Touring has real downforce as per AP whilst the R does not. The 991.2 GT3 has an engine which is Cup derived and totally different to the 991.1 R and AP has stated that the new engine, which revs freer and higher than the old engine, is much better. The T is a much better car than the R as it has real downforce, a freer higher reving engine and it is about one third the cost! Mark Bauwens Porsche GT's Drivetribe
Hi Mark! Thanks for your input. Agreed on the engine, you may have read our comprehensive article on it in Total 911 magazine, which I am editor of. The GT3's engine is superb, a marked improvement on the 9A1 engine in the R/991.1 GT3/RS. Agreed on the suspension in the T being softer than the CS, this is something I covered in part 1. To correct a couple of your own statements (I don't want people absorbing wrong information here), the R's body is the same as the 991.2 GT3, which is the mid-width you speak of originally derived from the Carrera 4 and measuring 1,852mm wide (without mirrors). The R is not narrow-body, though of course it is lighter than the Touring's due to its magnesium roof. Regards downforce, the GT3 Touring uses the same active rear wing settings as the R and indeed all 991 Cabriolet models, which sits taller under maximum extension. The Touring also uses the same rear diffuser as the R and manages airflow under the car in a very similar way too. That, coupled with the same body, cannot generate markedly more downforce than the R, at any speed.
Mark, that makes sense about the suspension stiffness not being as firm due to less aero downforce. Does the GT3TP have the middle width body (same as the GT3)?
Tom Ed Park #46 Hi Tom! Yes the 991.2 GT3 Touring and the 991.1 R both share the mid width Carrera Lee was right about that... but the R is a two year old car now and when released was a "game changer" with a manual box, little aero and lighter weight... however, now it has been overtaken by the T with the same manual box, real downforce - the R was neutral - and a much stronger freer rev'ing engine from the Cup car.
Tom Ed Park #46 Hallo again Tom! The R was a neutral car, it did not have any downforce. But you must understand the context, a standard Carrera has 300kg of lift at max speed or put another way 300kg of negative downforce. So the R was a huge improvement relative to the standard 911. The new T has real downforce as per AP (Andreas Preuninger) which is about 70kg at maximum speed and it is this positive downforce which makes the car feel "planted" on the road. For a full explanation see Mark Bauwens Porsche GT's on Drive Tribe. My figures were provided by AP.
Good video. You're having way to much fun!!!😎😎. Honestly, I personally would prefer the 911turbo. I like the torque and the refinement of the turbo and you can go absolutely bonkers when you have a mind too
Porsche didn't feel sorry that not more people were able to get their hands on a 911R, they were pissed that investors were buying the cars to flip them for profit, so the prices would be out of reach for their real customers. This wasn't Porsche's way to say sorry to the customer, it was Porsches way to say FU to car flippers.
Absolutely love what you do, a good 911 channel is exactly what is missing in the current youtube landscape! Is there a chance you will invest in a better mic in the future? Particularly at the top end, the flat six howl does not really come across in your videos
The difference between 911r and GT3 Touting is surely not worth the premium over it. A lot of people overpaid the 911 R thinking it was the last of its kind. And the 911 Carrera S Manual is even quiker than both of these for 60 msrp less than the GT3 T.
Thank you. In terms of engine, the new 4.0-litre fitted in the GT3 is superior to that found in the R, it is the only area where the GT3 comes out on top. It has more torque below 4k rpm and is stronger past 8k, it feels like there's very little drop-off from peak power at 8,250rpm. I even prefer the way it sounds: its rough note is more Mezger-like than the R. Regards engine noise, they are very similar, though the R didn't possess the annoying engine drone at motorway cruising speed that the Touring has.
Hallo again Lee, Think that we are going to have to agree to differ here! Refer you to the questions I asked AP via Drivetribe at the Genève Motorshow. To quote AP the Touring has real downforce compared to the R which only has neutral downforce whilst à Carrera has positive lift. The active rear spoiler of the Touring is set at 20 degrees (the standard R/Carrera 15 degrees) and with the addition of a gurney flap to balance the extra downforce on the front of the Touring. You may however be correct about the R having the mid size body as it's hard to judge and compare on the screen due to different colours but you should check with the Porsche Press Office. The gear change between the R and T feels different IF the R has the single mass flywheel and thus is not an option on the CS/T. Otherwise it feels exactly the same as it is the same. I'm now on my 24th 911 in forty some years... based in SW France and if you would like to attend a gathering of 911's Sunday/Monday nights after Le Mans (993 Turbo, 2 X 993 C2S, 991.2 GT3 CS & 991.2 GT3 T) let me know... we will drive up the C 28 to the Port de la Bonaigua and back to 81140 CdM) and you would be most welcome... bring an interesting drive!
Great vid. Economy of well chosen words - how old fashioned. And you don't appear to be 17 years old with ants in your pants. Excellent content too access to a terrific trio of cars.
Hey Lee. Great video as always. Somewhat related to your video, I'm looking to possibly sell my 3.2 Carrera and buy a 2004 996 GT3. I need some advice from people in the know. What would you think about this trade? Pros and cons? Thank you
Since both cars are very civil on the street and your limited by speed laws. They are equal there, it's all personal preference. On the track though the GT3 looks to be more fun, with that my choice is GT3.
Very wrong perception! I own a 2018 GT3 and it is not noisy at all. I drove it for 5000 km in Europe and could perfectly have a quiet conversation with my wife, listen to music or simply enjoy the motor. The beautiful sound never became tiresome or obstructing. It is the absolute PERFECT sports car. Do not let this 1 day reviewers discourage you from getting one of these cars!
Great review. I'm not sold on the R being that special. Especially since the engine isn't as strong as the .2 GT3's. shifters change over time and you were driving very new cars. Perhaps after 1 year the .2 GT3 shifters will have softened up a bit.
Thanks Brian. Could well be the case with the shifters - I'll have to do another review next spring! Regards the R, it is lighter than the GT3 with a magnesium roof and has a single-mass flywheel (providing the owner specced it), which really provides daylight between the cars in terms of specs. However, as somebody rightfully pointed out to me yesterday, these cars are very much the sum of their parts, their spec on paper can never do them justice. Both are fantastic 911s regardless - you wouldn't be disappointed with either.
That Nine Eleven Guy love to see another go at this ... just put 2300 kms on my Touring through Germany and Austria and no noise problems with pebbles in wheel wells or excessive noise or drone at any speeds ... perhaps try a different Touring with over 4000 kms on it and see if you see a difference ... also, spec PCCB’s !! I think my Lithium battery - minus 35 lbs easily makes up the 1 kg magnesium roof, lightweight glass and carbon hood and fenders ... cheers !!
If the GT3 Touring is 10% off the mark of a 911R how much off the mark is a 911.2 GTS with manual box as compared to a GT3 Touring? For benefit of the guys who are unable to get a GT3 Touring?
Well a GT3 Touring is purchasable, its not a limited so much more people can buy it, cost 2 or 3 times less than the R and has more power and Rev range, and a 911R just isnt...
And doesn’t mention once that the engine has more usable torque at lower RPM and a higher redline. The touring starts to shine over the R when you get on the gas. From low RPM all the way to higher red line, it owns the R. Then again, who cares about an engine in a drivers car, right?
Your a lucky boy 😂 I find that so hard to believe that Porsche have made the touring so loud but I could hear it in your vid It totally defeats the object of the car..... why did they do that? I would be so gutted if I could afford one and then found out I needed earplugs 😳 I have a Gen 1 Cayman S and really enjoy it I know you are 911 but would you consider sometimes comparing a Cayman with an equivalent 911? Would be interesting and all good Porsche fun 😜
John S this is subjective and likely no to little difference the regular GT3 other than environmental ... doubt Porsche removed sound deadening and weight and did not inform or advertise as a benefit to customers ... that said if I could I would make it more visceral and raw ... it is the ethos of the Touring and the 911 R
Brian Himmelman I guess so and to really think about it how many people actually go touring around Europe anymore in their 911’s ? If you really wanted comfort you would take your Merc I’ve toured around Wales in my Cayman and found it very usable for my girlfriend and I, actually I was amazed at how much luggage it would hold 😳 I have a standard exhaust so it was ok sound wise, but I used to have an Alpine GTA with a sports exhaust and that would have been hell around Wales after a day or two I still think it should be a lot quieter then a GT3 though
Thanks for the comments John! Yes, Touring should come with ear plugs or a loud radio for long journeys! Regards Cayman, I prefer to just focus on the 911 but have also driven man Caymans and have enjoyed them all - in fact the Cayman GT4 modified by Sharkwerks was one of my favourite drives from 2017!
That Nine Eleven Guy Thanks for getting back to me I do understand your comments on the Cayman/911 reviews Perhaps you can do it in the future? Sounds like a terrible mistake on the touring sound proofing, not like porsche to mess up like that 😳 I can just imagine how special that GT4 was, what a machine Looking forward to your next vid 👍
John S I read somewhere that the second generation 991 body had to have somewhat thicker steel to abide by new safety rules. To keep the weight similar to the first generation 991, Porsche had to lessen the sound deadening material.
I think in this context it just another way of saying ‘GT3 with Clubsport Package’ as they seem to be specced either with full CS package or in ‘comfort’ spec
Oh, so the performante that gets a liftsystem is called "performante liftsystem"? Or if the gt3 has leather and carbon its called "gt3 leather carbon"? There is no such thing as a gt3 clubsport. There is a gt4 clubsport. If you want to be "that 911 guy", you have to be more precise.
Thanks for your positive input, Maurizio. As you'll be aware, Porsche offers a Clubsport pack with its GT3, which includes cage and a fire extinguisher. Much like the 'Porsche 911 GT3 with Touring Package' is colloquially called the 'GT3 Touring', those with Clubsport-spec trim are commonly called GT3 Clubsports. You can view a high number of these for yourself on any classifieds website, where they are listed by dealers and specialists as such.
That Nine Eleven Guy its actually called gt3 touring, it says it on the back. However, on the back of normal gt3's, the clubsport is nowhere to be found. Its either normal, or clubsport. Clubsport is a different thing, like i said. Porsche offers a gt4 clubsport, which is a racecar. Specialists can call it however they want (clubsport sounds cooler), but its not called clubsport officially
Your vid has 90% comparison with the GT3 Touring and the GT3 with scaffolding in it! and only small passing mentions of the 911R. The title is 911 R v GT3 Touring.
Thanks - it would have helpful if you provided more descriptives regarding why you consider the R better. You kept saying that it’s just that little bit better...
Thanks for the feedback, Terry. To clarify, the new 4.0-litre engine is much stronger than the one in the R and so the GT3 has the better flat six. Apart from that, the R is better is every way. It rides better, is more communicative, more responsive, and thus more visceral as a road car. Its shift is like a rifle bolt, I've not experienced better in a 911 of any vintage. I hope that helps.
GTS is a better spec out the box than the 4S and in my opinion better value, so for me it comes down to T v GTS. The T is a fantastic car for road use, however if you like track days the GTS is a better-equipped tool for the job of road and track thrills.
It does not have the same body as the R. The R is based on the GT3 RS wide body with bubble roof, and this one has the regular narrow body with flat roof.
GT3T is same ethos of 911 R why the complaint of noise ... perhaps the Touring name should be the complaint ... your 10% more preference for lightness is someone else’s 10% better on Touring with improved engine and sharper chassis, improved front end and aero ... subjective to feel ... weight difference is mostly R’s min spec with no AC and PCM delete 50lbs of 90lbs all else being equal ... lithium battery and exhaust mod and that diff disappears fast ... obviously comparing the R with PCCB’s lighter and Touring with steels heavier creates a difference as well ... I argue these cars are 5% apart if the SMFW is ur thing
There's no better sound than a flat six on song, believe me, but when it's a duff droning sound when you sit for hours on the motorway in top gear at 4k revs, it becomes a problem.
When Porsche finally gives the Drivers what they want, they don’t deserve the credit. It’s what they should do if they want to stay in business. They would be out of business if it weren’t for soccer moms buying Macans or people buying Boxsters in the 90s.
I know you can not feel the weight difference between the R and the Touring. Yes there is definitely a cool factor with a magnesium roof and Carbon fenders. The R And the Touring have the same transmission so I doubt the R is a bit more "Notchy". The difference is the single mass flywheel option on the R and I have no idea if the R driven has the single mass which should have been offered also as an option on the Touring. The engine on the Touring revs to 9000 and the newer technology is also there. Porsche did not dull the Touring to satisfy R owners.
Turbo is too heavy and too soft. GT2 if you want a Turbo.I had a 993 TT and it was boring soft and heavy and that was putting on motorsport springs which also lowered it.
Oh please. People buy a 911 for all sorts of purposes. Some track them, some go on roadtrips with them, some use them every day because they have something nicer for the weekends and som buy old ones because they provide a reliable classic experience and so forth. Don't come here and say that no one buys a 911 because they are capable and comfortable, because that's exactly why 911 Turbo AND 911 GT3 exist in the lineup - different horses for different courses. I for one would love something that has TOURING written ALL over its marketing to have somewhat livable sound proofing. If I want noise I'll get a Caterham which makes a 911 feel like a SUV.
Well if you want a GT 911 the get a Carrera or a Turbo S. This is a GT car which are not designed for a quiet, comfy drive up the M4. It's called the touring because it's more suitable for the road. But it's by no means grand tourer. It's for blasting down B-roads and with that, you want more sound because it makes it a more raw driving experience and gives the car more soul.
Good work... but yours is a futile attempt at splitting hairs. In the real world, given the market price of the 911R ($400K + + ) vs GT3 Touring ($175K +) all your analysis goes out the window. At msrp, your analysis may hold some water. Granted, while the 911R feels more special, the difference is personal. GT3 is not THAT loud compared to 911R. And, who would want a "quiet" GT3? Something wrong with your GT3. It's not THAT loud on recording. Fun review though.
Thank you. Excellent review. I always like to look at a reviewer's face when driving the car and their level of excitement. Your expression driving the R said it all.
Thanks for the feedback Laurence, that means a lot.
I still think the GT3 Touring package is very nice and is my pick. Thanks for a great video.
Thanks for the kind feedback!
Thanks Lee for producing these videos. I really appreciate the effort and time that must go into making them. They are so spot on for what I want to see and hear about 911's from the 996s to the R's and GT3s. Thanks.
What a super comment - thanks Craig, that means a lot. I'm feeling some air-cooled content next!
Love how the video is made to be exactly 9:11 minutes long
The attention to detail. He's a real Porsche guy.
OH MY GOD! Finnaly a comparison btwn 911R and GT3T.. Thank you so much!!! You deserve my thumbs up and another subsciber ;)
Haha! Thanks very much indeed for the kind comments! Very pleased you enjoyed :)
Keep it up mate. Loving the exclusive Porsche 911 content. This GT3 was a certainly a treat. You are one lucky man drive all 3 variants. 👍
Thanks for the kind feedback! Plenty more to come in the ensuing months.
You should put the 911R against the 997 RS 4 litre. That would be very interesting.
Would love to! Watch this space…
Please do this!
Wow!!! A Guards Red GT3 Touring, dream car for me!! I couldn´t get the GT3 but I got a slot for a GTS, so now I drive a Guards Red GTS with PDK. I have twins so the backseats are great, but the GT3 Touring.......! My god!! Happy to have found this channel, you got yourself a new subscriber!! :)
Thanks indeed for the kind words! Glad you got yourself a GTS and found a use for the rear seats, goes to show there really is a 911 out there for everyone. I'm sure the twins will love the ride as much as you - start 'em young!
love the fact that porsche came out with the touring the destroy speculators
Yet another fantastic video 👍 I was smiling with you!!! 😁
Omg, so glad I’ve found your channel
Thanks for the kind words!
991.2 GT3 club sport manual all day the rear wing is just so perfect.....
A good comparison tbh. In the Touring model is that reflected in its 10% devision between it and the 911R? Pound for pound with money no object which car would you chose the GT3 Touring or the 911R? Thanks
Thanks! Pound for pound the R is the better 911, it carries an additional finesse (that 'extra 10% I talk about) in nearly every department.
Great video, thanks very much
I also prefer the looks of 991R. I think the older front bumper looks better than the new one. But is it worth 400 000e, my answer is no.
its Worth the price porsche sold it to their Customer.
But they were selling it for 189.000 at the time. Flippers have put 400k sticker.
Great video you lucky guy 👍👍👍
Just curious ... how does the manual gearbox in GT3 Touring compare to the one in the GT4?
have not driven touring, but if he said its like 991R then the shifter is much lighter than GT4 requiring less effort to move the lever. The clutch on the R is much lighter as well.
gt3..... 💓💓💓..... my favorite one,because this is THE ONE.😎
love the GT3 Touring ...love how loud it is ,,,all day every day !!!
Nick Gallucci me too ... added a center bypass Sharkwerks and could still use a little more ... not sure what was wrong with car he tested ... bizarre
Hi Lee, Can I correct a couple of errors from this video? The Clubsport at max speed has say 160kg of downforce whilst the Touring has about 50kg. As the CS has to support an extra 100kg it has stiffer suspension than the T. Porsche produce three body widths and the GT3 (non RS) is the mid width. The R was the narrow width. The Touring has real downforce as per AP whilst the R does not. The 991.2 GT3 has an engine which is Cup derived and totally different to the 991.1 R and AP has stated that the new engine, which revs freer and higher than the old engine, is much better. The T is a much better car than the R as it has real downforce, a freer higher reving engine and it is about one third the cost! Mark Bauwens Porsche GT's Drivetribe
Hi Mark! Thanks for your input. Agreed on the engine, you may have read our comprehensive article on it in Total 911 magazine, which I am editor of. The GT3's engine is superb, a marked improvement on the 9A1 engine in the R/991.1 GT3/RS. Agreed on the suspension in the T being softer than the CS, this is something I covered in part 1.
To correct a couple of your own statements (I don't want people absorbing wrong information here), the R's body is the same as the 991.2 GT3, which is the mid-width you speak of originally derived from the Carrera 4 and measuring 1,852mm wide (without mirrors). The R is not narrow-body, though of course it is lighter than the Touring's due to its magnesium roof. Regards downforce, the GT3 Touring uses the same active rear wing settings as the R and indeed all 991 Cabriolet models, which sits taller under maximum extension. The Touring also uses the same rear diffuser as the R and manages airflow under the car in a very similar way too. That, coupled with the same body, cannot generate markedly more downforce than the R, at any speed.
Mark, that makes sense about the suspension stiffness not being as firm due to less aero downforce. Does the GT3TP have the middle width body (same as the GT3)?
Also, why do you say the TP has more downforce than the 911R?
Tom Ed Park #46 Hi Tom! Yes the 991.2 GT3 Touring and the 991.1 R both share the mid width Carrera Lee was right about that... but the R is a two year old car now and when released was a "game changer" with a manual box, little aero and lighter weight... however, now it has been overtaken by the T with the same manual box, real downforce - the R was neutral - and a much stronger freer rev'ing engine from the Cup car.
Tom Ed Park #46 Hallo again Tom! The R was a neutral car, it did not have any downforce. But you must understand the context, a standard Carrera has 300kg of lift at max speed or put another way 300kg of negative downforce. So the R was a huge improvement relative to the standard 911. The new T has real downforce as per AP (Andreas Preuninger) which is about 70kg at maximum speed and it is this positive downforce which makes the car feel "planted" on the road. For a full explanation see Mark Bauwens Porsche GT's on Drive Tribe. My figures were provided by AP.
Good video. You're having way to much fun!!!😎😎. Honestly, I personally would prefer the 911turbo. I like the torque and the refinement of the turbo and you can go absolutely bonkers when you have a mind too
Porsche didn't feel sorry that not more people were able to get their hands on a 911R, they were pissed that investors were buying the cars to flip them for profit, so the prices would be out of reach for their real customers. This wasn't Porsche's way to say sorry to the customer, it was Porsches way to say FU to car flippers.
Absolutely love what you do, a good 911 channel is exactly what is missing in the current youtube landscape!
Is there a chance you will invest in a better mic in the future?
Particularly at the top end, the flat six howl does not really come across in your videos
Wow, thanks for the kind comments and constructive feedback. Yes, I do aim to improve audio quality as it is lacking at times… watch this space!
Looking forward to it !
And keep up the good work :)
great video!
Thank you!
Great video! A bit disappointed with the lack of sound deadening on a touring car! Maybe i can spec it with some extra sound deadening!
Thank you!
The difference between 911r and GT3 Touting is surely not worth the premium over it. A lot of people overpaid the 911 R thinking it was the last of its kind. And the 911 Carrera S Manual is even quiker than both of these for 60 msrp less than the GT3 T.
Keep up the good work! Love the vids
Thank you!
Awesome review!
Carrera T manual vs Carrera S manual vs Carrera GTS manual - rear wheel drive only of course - next logical comparison, wouldn't you think ?
I very much like the idea of that!
Great video, worth the wait. What about engine comparison between the R and Touring? Is cabin noise in R as loud as the touring?
Thank you. In terms of engine, the new 4.0-litre fitted in the GT3 is superior to that found in the R, it is the only area where the GT3 comes out on top. It has more torque below 4k rpm and is stronger past 8k, it feels like there's very little drop-off from peak power at 8,250rpm. I even prefer the way it sounds: its rough note is more Mezger-like than the R. Regards engine noise, they are very similar, though the R didn't possess the annoying engine drone at motorway cruising speed that the Touring has.
That Nine Eleven Guy could a center bypass fix the drone?
When buying my Porsche I did drive the GT3 the problem is it’s very noisy and a rough ride after a bit settled for the
991.2 Turbo S as a daily drive.
nice video!
Enjoyed that. Thank you.
Thanks Dan!
Hallo again Lee, Think that we are going to have to agree to differ here!
Refer you to the questions I asked AP via Drivetribe at the Genève Motorshow.
To quote AP the Touring has real downforce compared to the R which only has neutral downforce whilst à Carrera has positive lift.
The active rear spoiler of the Touring is set at 20 degrees (the standard R/Carrera 15 degrees) and with the addition of a gurney flap to balance the extra downforce on the front of the Touring.
You may however be correct about the R having the mid size body as it's hard to judge and compare on the screen due to different colours but you should check with the Porsche Press Office.
The gear change between the R and T feels different IF the R has the single mass flywheel and thus is not an option on the CS/T. Otherwise it feels exactly the same as it is the same.
I'm now on my 24th 911 in forty some years... based in SW France and if you would like to attend a gathering of 911's Sunday/Monday nights after Le Mans (993 Turbo, 2 X 993 C2S, 991.2 GT3 CS & 991.2 GT3 T) let me know... we will drive up the C 28 to the Port de la Bonaigua and back to 81140 CdM) and you would be most welcome... bring an interesting drive!
Great Review!!!!!
Thank you!
This are 911´s... Manual is a Must for the real expirience.
The 911 R tops it in terms of directness and aggressiveness in looks... But the 911 Touring, once its rev'd pass 5k is just divine....
Great vid. Economy of well chosen words - how old fashioned. And you don't appear to be 17 years old with ants in your pants. Excellent content too access to a terrific trio of cars.
Thanks for the kind comments, very much appreciated!
I wonder if the differences come from the single (R) mass flywheel vs double (T) mass flywheel on the clutch?
It's one of the differences, for sure.
J Han some people like the lighter old school feel but most would take the upgraded engine and sharper chassis
At 6:50 'Peter Kay is the only way forward' 😆
Ahahahaha!!! Well he is, right? Brilliant spot.
Hey Lee. Great video as always. Somewhat related to your video, I'm looking to possibly sell my 3.2 Carrera and buy a 2004 996 GT3. I need some advice from people in the know. What would you think about this trade? Pros and cons? Thank you
Since both cars are very civil on the street and your limited by speed laws. They are equal there, it's all personal preference.
On the track though the GT3 looks to be more fun, with that my choice is GT3.
Cheers for your insight, Tony!
Time 4 a change plus +1
Nice one!
What I like the most on the 911R... it's only available with a left-sided steering whleel. ;)
Gt3 touring all day and twice on Sunday
Nice work, Lee. I might have to start a TH-cam channel, then we can compare regional accents! Yorkshire meets Essex, what could possibly go wrong?
Haha! Yes! Be proud of where you're from, Neill!
Porsche is the only one manufacture that listen to their customers well done Porsche
Good work. And i agree, its definitely louder inside the Touring. My GT3.2 ODK is a better touring car that the Touring.
W3693 do you really believe this to be the case?
Brian Himmelman Absolutely. It’s is a lot noisier in Touring. A lot!
Means a lot coming from you, thank you and appreciate your comments on here.
W3693 if louder then less likely to need an exhaust mod ? Is engine sound louder or just road and wheel wells? Thank you
It is louder because Motorsport took out more sound deadening which also made it slightly lighter and pure.
Very wrong perception! I own a 2018 GT3 and it is not noisy at all. I drove it for 5000 km in Europe and could perfectly have a quiet conversation with my wife, listen to music or simply enjoy the motor. The beautiful sound never became tiresome or obstructing. It is the absolute PERFECT sports car. Do not let this 1 day reviewers discourage you from getting one of these cars!
Neglected to state it is a GT3 Touring 😁
Agree
Touring has a different intake airbox and filters than GT3 with the big wing and the ram air ducts.
Great review. I'm not sold on the R being that special. Especially since the engine isn't as strong as the .2 GT3's. shifters change over time and you were driving very new cars. Perhaps after 1 year the .2 GT3 shifters will have softened up a bit.
Thanks Brian. Could well be the case with the shifters - I'll have to do another review next spring! Regards the R, it is lighter than the GT3 with a magnesium roof and has a single-mass flywheel (providing the owner specced it), which really provides daylight between the cars in terms of specs. However, as somebody rightfully pointed out to me yesterday, these cars are very much the sum of their parts, their spec on paper can never do them justice. Both are fantastic 911s regardless - you wouldn't be disappointed with either.
That Nine Eleven Guy love to see another go at this ... just put 2300 kms on my Touring through Germany and Austria and no noise problems with pebbles in wheel wells or excessive noise or drone at any speeds ... perhaps try a different Touring with over 4000 kms on it and see if you see a difference ... also, spec PCCB’s !! I think my Lithium battery - minus 35 lbs easily makes up the 1 kg magnesium roof, lightweight glass and carbon hood and fenders ... cheers !!
50mph at the top of first is insane
If the GT3 Touring is 10% off the mark of a 911R how much off the mark is a 911.2 GTS with manual box as compared to a GT3 Touring? For benefit of the guys who are unable to get a GT3 Touring?
I'd say the T is 20% better again then the GTS
Well a GT3 Touring is purchasable, its not a limited so much more people can buy it, cost 2 or 3 times less than the R and has more power and Rev range, and a 911R just isnt...
Petar Apostolov you are correct
Gt3 touring must be the goldilocks of the gt3 experience , I drove a gt3 and found it quite a harsh ride.
Touring please.
blacka dax agree
I guess I just need to pony up and get the R then. Thanks for the overview.
And doesn’t mention once that the engine has more usable torque at lower RPM and a higher redline.
The touring starts to shine over the R when you get on the gas. From low RPM all the way to higher red line, it owns the R.
Then again, who cares about an engine in a drivers car, right?
Did you not see part one, good sir?
Don't you just love people who criticize without getting all the facts straight first? smh
Gt3 still have rock sounds
Your a lucky boy 😂
I find that so hard to believe that Porsche have made the touring so loud but I could hear it in your vid
It totally defeats the object of the car..... why did they do that?
I would be so gutted if I could afford one and then found out I needed earplugs 😳
I have a Gen 1 Cayman S and really enjoy it
I know you are 911 but would you consider sometimes comparing a Cayman with an equivalent 911?
Would be interesting and all good Porsche fun 😜
John S this is subjective and likely no to little difference the regular GT3 other than environmental ... doubt Porsche removed sound deadening and weight and did not inform or advertise as a benefit to customers ... that said if I could I would make it more visceral and raw ... it is the ethos of the Touring and the 911 R
Brian Himmelman
I guess so and to really think about it how many people actually go touring around Europe anymore in their 911’s ?
If you really wanted comfort you would take your Merc
I’ve toured around Wales in my Cayman and found it very usable for my girlfriend and I, actually I was amazed at how much luggage it would hold 😳
I have a standard exhaust so it was ok sound wise, but I used to have an Alpine GTA with a sports exhaust and that would have been hell around Wales after a day or two
I still think it should be a lot quieter then a GT3 though
Thanks for the comments John! Yes, Touring should come with ear plugs or a loud radio for long journeys! Regards Cayman, I prefer to just focus on the 911 but have also driven man Caymans and have enjoyed them all - in fact the Cayman GT4 modified by Sharkwerks was one of my favourite drives from 2017!
That Nine Eleven Guy
Thanks for getting back to me
I do understand your comments on the Cayman/911 reviews
Perhaps you can do it in the future?
Sounds like a terrible mistake on the touring sound proofing, not like porsche to mess up like that 😳
I can just imagine how special that GT4 was, what a machine
Looking forward to your next vid 👍
John S I read somewhere that the second generation 991 body had to have somewhat thicker steel to abide by new safety rules. To keep the weight similar to the first generation 991, Porsche had to lessen the sound deadening material.
There isn't such a thing as GT3 clubsport , it's just the GT3
Clubsport package gets the cage and fire extinguisher, Comfort models don't. I hope that helps.
I think in this context it just another way of saying ‘GT3 with Clubsport Package’ as they seem to be specced either with full CS package or in ‘comfort’ spec
Oh, so the performante that gets a liftsystem is called "performante liftsystem"? Or if the gt3 has leather and carbon its called "gt3 leather carbon"? There is no such thing as a gt3 clubsport. There is a gt4 clubsport. If you want to be "that 911 guy", you have to be more precise.
Thanks for your positive input, Maurizio. As you'll be aware, Porsche offers a Clubsport pack with its GT3, which includes cage and a fire extinguisher. Much like the 'Porsche 911 GT3 with Touring Package' is colloquially called the 'GT3 Touring', those with Clubsport-spec trim are commonly called GT3 Clubsports. You can view a high number of these for yourself on any classifieds website, where they are listed by dealers and specialists as such.
That Nine Eleven Guy its actually called gt3 touring, it says it on the back. However, on the back of normal gt3's, the clubsport is nowhere to be found. Its either normal, or clubsport. Clubsport is a different thing, like i said. Porsche offers a gt4 clubsport, which is a racecar. Specialists can call it however they want (clubsport sounds cooler), but its not called clubsport officially
Your vid has 90% comparison with the GT3 Touring and the GT3 with scaffolding in it! and only small passing mentions of the 911R. The title is 911 R v GT3 Touring.
Thanks - it would have helpful if you provided more descriptives regarding why you consider the R better. You kept saying that it’s just that little bit better...
Thanks for the feedback, Terry. To clarify, the new 4.0-litre engine is much stronger than the one in the R and so the GT3 has the better flat six. Apart from that, the R is better is every way. It rides better, is more communicative, more responsive, and thus more visceral as a road car. Its shift is like a rifle bolt, I've not experienced better in a 911 of any vintage. I hope that helps.
Excellent add'l info tks
how do you think about Carrera 4S or Carrera GTS or Carrera T for both daily drive and experience
anh son Nguyen the GTS is a perfect blend of performance along with daily usability.
GTS is a better spec out the box than the 4S and in my opinion better value, so for me it comes down to T v GTS. The T is a fantastic car for road use, however if you like track days the GTS is a better-equipped tool for the job of road and track thrills.
It does not have the same body as the R. The R is based on the GT3 RS wide body with bubble roof, and this one has the regular narrow body with flat roof.
Incorrect, the R is based on the GT3 (C4) body, 1,852mm, albeit with a mag roof. the gT3 RS is 1,880mm wide. Best wishes.
@@9WERKSTV Thank you for the clarification. Cheers!
@@rafgomez333 My pleasure.
That passenger seat looked like a shadow trooper or no ?
996 C4S forever......
Porsche has repeatedly said the ride on the touring is identical to the regular GT3.
Just like they said they'd never build a manual GT car ever again…
That Nine Eleven Guy fantastic argument. That’s basically the same thing!
GT3T is same ethos of 911 R why the complaint of noise ... perhaps the Touring name should be the complaint ... your 10% more preference for lightness is someone else’s 10% better on Touring with improved engine and sharper chassis, improved front end and aero ... subjective to feel ... weight difference is mostly R’s min spec with no AC and PCM delete 50lbs of 90lbs all else being equal ... lithium battery and exhaust mod and that diff disappears fast ... obviously comparing the R with PCCB’s lighter and Touring with steels heavier creates a difference as well ... I argue these cars are 5% apart if the SMFW is ur thing
Cheers for your continued comments on my video, Brian!
Since when 911’s pure noise is a bad thing !?
There's no better sound than a flat six on song, believe me, but when it's a duff droning sound when you sit for hours on the motorway in top gear at 4k revs, it becomes a problem.
Duff droning GT3 !!! Hmm, guess VW is the car for you mate
I'd better sell my own 911 then, right?
At what speed would you have to be going above 4K in 6th ??? 260 kph plus on a long journey ??
Just under 4k in 6th gear was around 152kph, if I recall correctly.
HOW DO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THESE LEGENDS, Literally doing better than using GTA cheatcodes 😪
When Porsche finally gives the Drivers what they want, they don’t deserve the credit. It’s what they should do if they want to stay in business. They would be out of business if it weren’t for soccer moms buying Macans or people buying Boxsters in the 90s.
can't help but think Porsche purposely made the gt3 touring a little less good as the 911r to maintain its status and significance.
It makes sense that the R drives better, because its lighter with the magnesium roof and the Carbon fiber hood/body parts.
Champaroo 8lbs or .3% of overall weight ... are u serious lol
I know you can not feel the weight difference between the R and the Touring. Yes there is definitely a cool factor with a magnesium roof and Carbon fenders. The R And the Touring have the same transmission so I doubt the R is a bit more "Notchy". The difference is the single mass flywheel option on the R and I have no idea if the R driven has the single mass which should have been offered also as an option on the Touring. The engine on the Touring revs to 9000 and the newer technology is also there. Porsche did not dull the Touring to satisfy R owners.
In this age why anyone would care about manual is beyond me... it's like oh I miss the slow dial up modem with dial up noise...
MK Uis imagine u would rather get nutrients from a pill rather than enjoying a meal as well ... normally don’t bite on troll comments
I just wish they made a 911 Turbo with manual transmission. I’ll take more hp with all-wheel-drive over these GT cars.
Turbo is too heavy and too soft. GT2 if you want a Turbo.I had a 993 TT and it was boring soft and heavy and that was putting on motorsport springs which also lowered it.
Well the sound deadining part ruined my lust after the Touring Package...
Adeel A. Ahmad yes there is alway the quiet comfort of a Lexus
You don't buy a 911 for a quiet drive.
Oh please. People buy a 911 for all sorts of purposes. Some track them, some go on roadtrips with them, some use them every day because they have something nicer for the weekends and som buy old ones because they provide a reliable classic experience and so forth. Don't come here and say that no one buys a 911 because they are capable and comfortable, because that's exactly why 911 Turbo AND 911 GT3 exist in the lineup - different horses for different courses.
I for one would love something that has TOURING written ALL over its marketing to have somewhat livable sound proofing. If I want noise I'll get a Caterham which makes a 911 feel like a SUV.
Well if you want a GT 911 the get a Carrera or a Turbo S. This is a GT car which are not designed for a quiet, comfy drive up the M4. It's called the touring because it's more suitable for the road. But it's by no means grand tourer. It's for blasting down B-roads and with that, you want more sound because it makes it a more raw driving experience and gives the car more soul.
W-James well said
I inspected a very interesting 911r , if you email me at via my website , i will send over
It’s a age thing , it you don’t like a wing your officially old 🥹
Good work... but yours is a futile attempt at splitting hairs. In the real world, given the market price of the 911R ($400K + + ) vs GT3 Touring ($175K +) all your analysis goes out the window. At msrp, your analysis may hold some water. Granted, while the 911R feels more special, the difference is personal. GT3 is not THAT loud compared to 911R. And, who would want a "quiet" GT3? Something wrong with your GT3. It's not THAT loud on recording. Fun review though.
Audio (in cars) sucks.
Porsche is making up soo many variations of the 911 it’s getting ridiculous.... they are soo money hungry and you fools are falling for it
997.1 Is the best one of all. These are just too big and pointless for me.
Thanks for sharing your opinion!
You make it sound like the 991 is the size of an Lamborghini Aventador