Thank you for the info. My father is sure to hit me up with this miraculous find and now at least I am introduced to what the hell he will be talking about.
Thank goodness for true scholarship! I appreciate Dr Lundwall so much! I’m sad to think of all the deceptions that go on in the world. Mormonism being one of the biggest. Thank you Landon and Rebecca for your podcasts.
Determining whether something is an actual ancient artifact is like a puzzle. Some of those puzzle pieces are ( but not limited to) Provenance, archeology, culture, linguistic, DNA ( if available) and peer review to eliminate personal biases of any one person. All those pieces need to fit the existing body of knowledge that exists about any particular group of ancient humans. What any religious apologist does is completely discard any attempt to put together the puzzle and instead just takes one piece of it and apply their own beliefs to make an imaginary puzzle that fits their worldview. Confirmation bias at its “best “.
After seeing one of the prominent faithful-Mormon podcasts hyping up this "breaking" new "proof" and the comments of the faithful podcast listeners there, I could only sum up what was going on in Mormondom as follows: "Cue the untethered helium balloons of hyper-creative interpretations based on wishful thinking and confirmation bias." The fact that their video was constantly referring to those tiny two-plate gold artifacts (actually smaller than credit cards) as "gold BOOKS" was just the tip of the iceberg with regard to how much stretching they were doing...more stretching than a thousand rubber bands on active duty. Add that to the fact that the provenance of the "artifacts" is essentially the same as the provenance of a "Roylex" watch being sold out behind a dumpster in a dark alley by a guy wearing a trench coat. "Trust me, man! Roylex, with a 'y' is the most exclusive premium line produced by the Rolex brand. That's why you can't find them in regular stores."
Another awesome episode. Love going back and catching up. I hope yall continue to grow. I love that the post Mormon shows are all unique. Between yall and mormonism live i love all the content
I love how the photo, showing fingers next to the plates, indicates that they are smaller than credit cards and consist of only two "pages"... but they (and the faithful Mormon podcasts that replay the video) insist on calling them "gold BOOKs" over and over. Like, if I give someone a folded thank-you note that is smaller than a credit card when folded...I guess I can now call it a "thank-you book".
@@TEAM__POSEID0N you should probably watch the actual video not just the clips these biased opinions bring. If you're going to judge on reality, you actually have to seek the truth. With no biases.
This lady is so reaching. Many other gods had “power over death and life. Just because she believes in JC doesn’t mean this is JC. I thought the drawings foresaw and predicted the Sesame Street characters.
Im a latterday saint and the newly discovered gold plates are nothing to do with the latterday saints so dont bring us into it we believe our church is true because we prayed and asked God sincerly and the Holy Spirit testify the truth in our hearts
Why would Lehi leave the plates in Saudi Arabia? I thought the whole point of JS being able to "translate" said plats is for them to be in America. Why would anyone abandon golden plates?
Dont you think the 10 percent, serving dead people, and feeling so superior is worth buying to some people? You don't have to think, you dont have to go beyond your comfort zone, just some cash and dressing up and bowing our head and saying yes is all it takes.
Sorry, but the claim around 102:30 of 50 gold plates is just off. We have a couple of accounts (one from Sidney Rigdon, 2nd or 3rd hand) which give us the number - 12 if I am remembering correctly. A second account is also under 20. There's really no reason to believe that there were more than 20 plates.
Wasn’t it about 6-8 inches thick? If just 20 plates then that isn’t enough space to have all the text needed to make the BoM. Even if In “reformed Egyptian”
My mom is from Acayucan and would find sherds and shards while playin in the river. My grandma spoke Olutec Popoluca. Can you do an episode on Indigenous Languages, specifically the Isthmian Cultures? Mixe-Zoques, Olmec, Totonac, Zapotec!
Joseph Smith suffered from Typhoid and Osteomyelitis as a child. The fevers run so high with both diseases, he would have suffered brain damage. It’s likely he also survived measles, smallpox, and hosted other parasites that would have ravaged his brain.
When I first saw this "artifact" I immediately thought it just looked like some cheap souvenir. It's not much bigger than a postage stamp and the space is wasted with "kindergarten" drawings of palm trees and ladders etc. The credentials of these guys is pretty dubious. Looks like another "Ron Wyatt discovery".
When marching from Kirtland to Independence with the Mormon National Guard Joseph came a cross a burial mound with a body with an arrow in it. Joseph proclaimed that this was a mighty white Nephite warrior from the last great Nephite/Lananite battle named Zelph. Evidently he had been there for the last 1400 years
Bible scholars say the plates are a fraud. But given the gospel essays where they agree that Joseph used a rock in the hat, why stress about the plates? They weren't needed. LDS leaders, pivot the narrative to the B of M inspires us (it's fiction) like the Bhagvad Gita, Lord of the Rings, etc... You're there now.
I do not believe the place they just found are what the book of Mormon was talking about. He told Joseph Smith the books were sealed and that he could not translate them. So they cannot be the same plates. And the ones just found are real small anyway ¡!!
no one is claiming they are the book of mormon plates, just that JS was incredibly lucky to guess that ancients wrote docs on gold plates, jews fled to arabia, and they buried them in the dirt. Similar as BoM account.
The plates were never I dictated as true or real or whatever. What many members thought was how amusing it was the fact the forgers were using BoM narrative to evangelists, and the evangelists were thinking it was all true. So funny that they did not catch the contradict in themselves. Many members thought these plates were interesting but held their belief if they were real or not. I got one was very sceptical.
Friend, this is just another example in a long list of Mormon claims: The Kinderhook plates, the Greek Psalter, the Abraham Papyri, the Michigan Relics, the Dresden Codex, the Anthon transcript, the Los Lunas stone, the Hofmann forgeries, etc…
Take a look at the views on the apologist channels who discussed this…80K plus. You saw very few apologists address it because so many post Mormons jumped on it and showed it was a fake so quickly that the apologists realized it before they spread the false narrative (you are welcome). That’s what we are here for!
@@mormonishpodcast1036 actually I watched the Dehlin interview to see there was a couple apologists using it. The stick of Joseph and Ward Radio. I do stand corrected on that.
That mound “evidence” was rough. Even if you take his idea as proof you now have to say that place is where the BoM took place. And now it must come to pass that all other claims ,in the BoM, have to also fit! The claims of the book are the bench mark of proof needed. (My hebrewism proves my statement is correct)😂
I just love Dr. Lundwall!❤
As always, you 3 are on cutting edge! Thank you!
Hoffman would be proud!
you guys are doing gods work! The appropriation of Indigenous Identity is STILL being erased by racist, white, Americana Christian. religions.
Landon was spot on about the dark sky temple joke. He always knows how to bring topics together.
Thank you for the info. My father is sure to hit me up with this miraculous find and now at least I am introduced to what the hell he will be talking about.
Thank you for covering this interesting topic - great podcast!
Thank goodness for true scholarship! I appreciate Dr Lundwall so much! I’m sad to think of all the deceptions that go on in the world. Mormonism being one of the biggest.
Thank you Landon and Rebecca for your podcasts.
So interesting! Nice to see Dr John again.
Great episode! You guys did a wonderful job in reviewing the facts and applying those facts to get at the truth. Kudos to you all.
Awesome podcast! Love how the professor gives viewers a new skill by which to weigh evidence. Well done!
I can’t believe all the superstitions about solar eclipses. 🤦🏻♀️
believe none of them
Determining whether something is an actual ancient artifact is like a puzzle. Some of those puzzle pieces are ( but not limited to) Provenance, archeology, culture, linguistic, DNA ( if available) and peer review to eliminate personal biases of any one person. All those pieces need to fit the existing body of knowledge that exists about any particular group of ancient humans. What any religious apologist does is completely discard any attempt to put together the puzzle and instead just takes one piece of it and apply their own beliefs to make an imaginary puzzle that fits their worldview. Confirmation bias at its “best “.
This is correct.
After seeing one of the prominent faithful-Mormon podcasts hyping up this "breaking" new "proof" and the comments of the faithful podcast listeners there, I could only sum up what was going on in Mormondom as follows: "Cue the untethered helium balloons of hyper-creative interpretations based on wishful thinking and confirmation bias." The fact that their video was constantly referring to those tiny two-plate gold artifacts (actually smaller than credit cards) as "gold BOOKS" was just the tip of the iceberg with regard to how much stretching they were doing...more stretching than a thousand rubber bands on active duty. Add that to the fact that the provenance of the "artifacts" is essentially the same as the provenance of a "Roylex" watch being sold out behind a dumpster in a dark alley by a guy wearing a trench coat. "Trust me, man! Roylex, with a 'y' is the most exclusive premium line produced by the Rolex brand. That's why you can't find them in regular stores."
Another awesome episode. Love going back and catching up. I hope yall continue to grow. I love that the post Mormon shows are all unique. Between yall and mormonism live i love all the content
If the plates were legit they would not be touching them with bare hands!!
They're tour guides who were presented these items. Likely didn't have gloves. Either way gold plates have been discovered in the past.
I love how the photo, showing fingers next to the plates, indicates that they are smaller than credit cards and consist of only two "pages"... but they (and the faithful Mormon podcasts that replay the video) insist on calling them "gold BOOKs" over and over. Like, if I give someone a folded thank-you note that is smaller than a credit card when folded...I guess I can now call it a "thank-you book".
@@TEAM__POSEID0N you should probably watch the actual video not just the clips these biased opinions bring. If you're going to judge on reality, you actually have to seek the truth. With no biases.
This was great information. Very kinder hook and salamander letter like
I feel so bad for their giddiness over something that is almost certainly a hoax. The desperation for evidence they will never get is sad.
That gold book probably translates to read, "This book belongs to Brittany." 😂
Thx for bringing this to us. Never heard about this.
JS would see one of those drawings and then dictate a chapter of a story. Like no language ever in history can do.
Excellent overview
This lady is so reaching. Many other gods had “power over death and life. Just because she believes in JC doesn’t mean this is JC. I thought the drawings foresaw and predicted the Sesame Street characters.
41:15 what is this? A Book of Mormon for ants?
Rebecca has such high EQ, i just love her.
Im a latterday saint and the newly discovered gold plates are nothing to do with the latterday saints so dont bring us into it we believe our church is true because we prayed and asked God sincerly and the Holy Spirit testify the truth in our hearts
If Stick of Joseph is really a TBM, he should have the power of discernment...he doesn't need experts to say what it is right?
Thank you! You guys Rock!!
My mother-in-law sent us the news about these plates and was very excited for what that "proved" about the church being true.
30:20. I wish I could find someone in my city who would feed me to specialize in art… OK back to watching… loving this
This is painful to watch the level of excitement
Why would Lehi leave the plates in Saudi Arabia? I thought the whole point of JS being able to "translate" said plats is for them to be in America. Why would anyone abandon golden plates?
Dont you think the 10 percent, serving dead people, and feeling so superior is worth buying to some people? You don't have to think, you dont have to go beyond your comfort zone, just some cash and dressing up and bowing our head and saying yes is all it takes.
Sorry, but the claim around 102:30 of 50 gold plates is just off. We have a couple of accounts (one from Sidney Rigdon, 2nd or 3rd hand) which give us the number - 12 if I am remembering correctly. A second account is also under 20. There's really no reason to believe that there were more than 20 plates.
Except any written language known couldn’t fit on 50 plates. Let alone 12. 😬
@@philclegg8169 That's why reformed egyptian is so amazing. A single character could stand for 12-24 words in english... at least that was the claim.
@@scottvance74 but he didn’t really use them anyway. Did he? 😏
Wasn’t it about 6-8 inches thick? If just 20 plates then that isn’t enough space to have all the text needed to make the BoM. Even if In “reformed Egyptian”
@@philclegg8169great point!! They sat in a box.
This is what happens when you've had no evidence your whole life.
My mom is from Acayucan and would find sherds and shards while playin in the river. My grandma spoke Olutec Popoluca. Can you do an episode on Indigenous Languages, specifically the Isthmian Cultures? Mixe-Zoques, Olmec, Totonac, Zapotec!
I’ve actually tried to put this together but it is very hard to find experts in this area.
Paging Mark Hoffman...paging Mark Hoffman.
Joseph Smith suffered from Typhoid and Osteomyelitis as a child. The fevers run so high with both diseases, he would have suffered brain damage. It’s likely he also survived measles, smallpox, and hosted other parasites that would have ravaged his brain.
Wut? What about battle tapirs?
Golden kinderhook plates?
Wait.....Mormons have a profit, give it to him. Powah of god!
When I first saw this "artifact" I immediately thought it just looked like some cheap souvenir. It's not much bigger than a postage stamp and the space is wasted with "kindergarten" drawings of palm trees and ladders etc. The credentials of these guys is pretty dubious. Looks like another "Ron Wyatt discovery".
Never Mo here. Who or what is Zelph?
When marching from Kirtland to Independence with the Mormon National Guard Joseph came a cross a burial mound with a body with an arrow in it. Joseph proclaimed that this was a mighty white Nephite warrior from the last great Nephite/Lananite battle named Zelph. Evidently he had been there for the last 1400 years
Bible scholars say the plates are a fraud. But given the gospel essays where they agree that Joseph used a rock in the hat, why stress about the plates? They weren't needed. LDS leaders, pivot the narrative to the B of M inspires us (it's fiction) like the Bhagvad Gita, Lord of the Rings, etc... You're there now.
I do not believe the place they just found are what the book of Mormon was talking about. He told Joseph Smith the books were sealed and that he could not translate them. So they cannot be the same plates. And the ones just found are real small anyway ¡!!
no one is claiming they are the book of mormon plates, just that JS was incredibly lucky to guess that ancients wrote docs on gold plates, jews fled to arabia, and they buried them in the dirt. Similar as BoM account.
and even in the cave paintings they get Jesus's skin colour wrong 🙄😂
Smells of Hofmann
The plates were never I dictated as true or real or whatever. What many members thought was how amusing it was the fact the forgers were using BoM narrative to evangelists, and the evangelists were thinking it was all true. So funny that they did not catch the contradict in themselves. Many members thought these plates were interesting but held their belief if they were real or not. I got one was very sceptical.
Friend, this is just another example in a long list of Mormon claims: The Kinderhook plates, the Greek Psalter, the Abraham Papyri, the Michigan Relics, the Dresden Codex, the Anthon transcript, the Los Lunas stone, the Hofmann forgeries, etc…
I’ve seen far more Mormon critics talk this to death far more than I saw any apologist address it at all.
Take a look at the views on the apologist channels who discussed this…80K plus. You saw very few apologists address it because so many post Mormons jumped on it and showed it was a fake so quickly that the apologists realized it before they spread the false narrative (you are welcome). That’s what we are here for!
@@mormonishpodcast1036 actually I watched the Dehlin interview to see there was a couple apologists using it. The stick of Joseph and Ward Radio. I do stand corrected on that.
So Bigfoot may have built the pyramids is what you're saying?
Can we do a series where Dr. Lundwall watches The Testaments and demolishes it??? Latter-Day Appropriation!
That mound “evidence” was rough. Even if you take his idea as proof you now have to say that place is where the BoM took place. And now it must come to pass that all other claims ,in the BoM, have to also fit! The claims of the book are the bench mark of proof needed. (My hebrewism proves my statement is correct)😂
Mormons created their own Jesus so they can create their own truth when it comes to the golden book.