⚠REMINDER⚠This upcoming showcase is delayed to the Wednesday 31st! I forgot to mention that in the video my bad!! come hang out in the mean time for more copium: www.twitch.tv/Narciverse
6:00 i HIGHLY disagree and as someone with over 3000 hours in eso, i can say that pots, food, and drink items arent hard to manage but just time consuming to farm for if you make them yourself and nothing more than a money sink if you have the money to just buy them and in combat, they arent hard IN THE LEAST to manage use of but just something to think about every so often that with the right pots and food items on the right build makes you immortal cause they let you mindlessly spam abilites like a brainlet. i think you are forgetting the major draw of ashes where EVERYONE has to be super specialized into ONE SINGLE role and NO ONE can be a walking solo god who can do everything themselves being the entire draw and in eso for example, there are PLENTY of abilites, CP points, and gear sets based on restoring resources to the group meant for healers to use but when you can just buy pots and get around it, it kills the entire need for a group memeber to manage resources killing just a bit more in terms of options for unique and specialized builds and reducing the number of players a group needs to the point that the 4 man groups in esos LFG tool are made up of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps instead of 1 support to help give the chance for a mana/stamina battery healer and to seperate the healers from being the buff givers that they are now as they have no need really to do too much healing and are more like dps who throw out specific area of effect buffs and healing while doing a shit ton of dmg cause healing scales with weapon and spell dmg. legit seperating healers from being buff givers is not only a good idea in general but especially in ashes because its been made pretty clear that potions are seemingly at most going to only be the hard to get and very valuble OH SHIT button if you make a major mistake and not something your expected to use if your playing well meaning healing will be VERY hard to come by and so if healers have to manage 15 differnt buffs AND keeping idiots who like to stand in stupid alive, thats gonna be pretty taxing when they are expected to ACTUALLY play as a proper healer keeping people alive and bring back those who have died so having a secondary support in the form of the bard to provide the buffs and even debuffs is going to be a great way to help what i believe will be the hardest class to play in ashes.
6:43 no its not because of the inspiration from those games and i think your probably still a bit to focused on the 'MMOs' we have today that are AT BEST solo player experiences AND you also are an artisan main so your already on some level a bit insane so you dont get that even amoung hardcore mmo players, spending 5 hours farming mats for your pots for yourself and your group before getting to use them on one single raid boss is NOT fun gameplay design ESPECIALLY when the minigames on crafting items seems to be that it wont even be able to be made as easy as buying them and than just pressing a button 500 times to make all the items you want but will actually be REALLY time consuming even on the item creation front. in other words, allowing for an easiily renewable way to regenerate mana through having bards who have to actually learn how to play their instruments and correctly to best maximize the resources they regenerate for the group so the group can try to focus a bit more on the fight itself especially with how tactics focused the game will be is a must.
like coming from the POV of a guy who plans to run a caravansary guild whos focus is on the creation and operation of caravans for ourselves and for other guilds who we contract with to transport their resources safely, the AVERAGE guard detail i plan to have as our standard protection plan is to have 3 summoners who focus on dps summons but CAN pull out healing or tank summons if the need arises AND if they do exist, focuses on summoning summons kinda of like the multiple summons of elden ring where 1 summon slot brings for multiple low level summons who each arent strong on their own but serve as multiple targets to make tanking ALL their dmg from multiple angles hard and stopping the dmg by hardfocusing one down also difficult with than 2 double tanks whose entire job is to stand beside each of the 2 double clerics whose main job is ressurection of anyone who might drop in an ambush with 1 bard as a mana battery riding the carriage and perhaps constantly playing songs to allow the tanks to maintain area of effect massive defense boost to hopefully force ambushes to target them instead of our healers or summoners with than a detail of 4 double rogues in a secondary part with one stationed behind the carvan at a distance keeping an eye out for approaching threats while the other 3 take up a formation with one on the main road further out ahead of the caravan and 2 following slightly behind both of to either side of the road in order to look out for upcoming threats and roadblocks as well as ambushes with in the event of an ambush whether its sprung intentionally to just kill them and move the fastest route possible or wasnt seen and actually did ambush the caravan, the rogues move in behind and pick off every backline support they can while the main caravan detail focuses on defense and making it a battle of endurance. More expensive guard detail plans would include 2 ranger/summoners who are in carts on either side with 2 more bard mana batteries and 2 double tanks and healers with both sides having 1 of each with the bards again serving the same role with the ranger in peacetimes focused on arieal surveillence and during combat adding to the chaos as the tanks, healers, and bards move in to help the rogues crush the backlines with the most expensive adding in 2 to 3 summoners to either sides party and an extra pair of a double tank and double healer to add reduntancy in the case of an ambush or lucky pick with the summoners whole job to serve as brining in multi summoner summons to crush the backlines and in the event of the main party being wiped, take over the caravan and continue its transportation. like this will be a game thats difficulty WILL NOT be determined by how well you do your rotation and maybe that makes you think that it will be a game that makes each player a braindead idiot who requries no skill to play but this ISNT a single player action combat focused game and instead is going to HEAVILY be based on tactics and smart planning and working as a group effectively and effiecntly so as to cut down on the number of necessary players to make an encounter work out so as to not be crushed by the sure to be AOE abilites that will wipe poor positioning and zerging which we already see with how they have demonstrated in their boss design where zergs will face more and more devistating AOE moves up to the point of having to beat dmg checks or be nuked to oblivion.
Minstrels were heavy support until they revamped them. They added a bar with builders. Songs and ballads, which either emphasized support on one end or emphasized the war college on the opposite end.
The bard class rocks. I played a Dirge Melee DPS buff bard in EQ2. It was way fun. Not only can you DPS, but every MT raid group needs one in the leading tank group and one in the Melee DPS group. The troubadour was the Mage and Healer go to bard class. Bards comprise single and group buffs and defensive buffs for the tanks. The main raid boss de-buffs, and knowing when to pop your big cooldowns for a mass spike for group and raid melee DPS is clutch. A massive raid one-time, 10-minute cooldown AOE blocker and pocket res assisted the healers when people died. Group/raid speed buff when traveling from one target to the next. Dirge had an aggression transfer from one big spike damage melee class in the group to the tank, so they did not pull agro. Attack speed buffs, double attack increases, and increased melee cool-down speed buffs. All in all, the bard is a really fun class to play. The best bards can keep their rotations going and switch up songs and tactics depending on the encounter and how the fight progresses all while maximizing their own melee DPS and your group. If you have a good tank and good healers, you focus on maximizing your DPS buffs and forgo your regens, aggro transfers/reducers, and defensive buffs. If you have a bad tank or healer, you can concentrate more on the defensive rotation and songs for the group.
The Captain class in vanilla lotro was a fantastic example of a really well designed support class. They provided small support heals, (including improved in combat health/power regen) strong group buffing, and even an in combat rez. Given that Steven has stated the Cleric is the sole primary healer, it would be great to have the Bard provide some off healing and improved power regen, along with some temporary combat buffs
I'm glad they're copying niche oldschool designs. The last thing I want is another game trying to "reach a wider audience"... That's literally what ruined the MMO genre.
Mount and costume farming and cash shop ruined the mmo genre for me. If you can biy costumes in a webshop you should be able to buy a function that lets you see everyones real armor and weapon
I remember Bards from DAoC, and their respective counterclasses in each of the realms. The Skald (Bard counterpart in one of the realms in DAoC) used to be an extremely fun class. For one, you had the fastest (group) speed buff outside of combat, which is super useful for traversing the map. On the other hand, you had songs to support the team (DMG Buff, Heal/Mana-reg, and even instant DD spells), while also being able to wield weapons and support with the damage. If they can create a similar player experience, the class will become a staple for group content and still be fun for solo content.
Not just mana, any archetype's resource like divine power, momentum, courage, stamina etc, maybe even threat. It is likely that they will not only be able to replenish resources, but drain them from enemies. I think it is also not important that all classes appeal to everyone. Every class doesn't have to appeal to high-octane football players, some may perhaps appeal to the strategic chess players and the over 50s.
Ragnarok Online's Bard and Dancer (male/female variants) were awesome, they were archer based with both combat and support capabilities, male had a lute female had a whip
Imagine playing "guitar hero" during a combat to upkeep buffs, if you can't hit the proper notes for the given song, the quality of your buff can't be perfect :)
EQ and EQ2 rocked the bard class. Dirge and Troubadour. Max/Mining my raid Dirge and I would hit top tear DPS in groups. So much fun. I remember getting into pug groups to kill time or farm, and if some moron kept pulling aggro because they were mad at how slow the tank was pulling mobs, I would put the 20% aggro transfer on them to kill them faster so `they would rage quite and would drop the group. I remember a brigand challenged me to top DPS overall in a quick farm run, so during the fight, I transferred the old 20% aggro buff onto him during fights and watched him go from hero to zero to dead in one giant pull. He was so pissed that he raged, quit, and accused me of cheating. I laughed and told him I was playing a Dirge and using my tactical strengths to win the contest.
Lineage 2 has no bards. Lineage 2 has a warrior class that evolves with a class assencion into a warrior that gives buffs to the party, which is the Sword Singer, that is not a bard, the word singer fights with shield and sword, gives buffs by singing, which is one of the best things in L2 classes, roles, it's all magical and wonderful compared to any other mmo. L2 also has the Blade Dancer, which is the same but uses dual words and dances to give buffs. L2 has like 50 classes.
if it's anything like Lineage 2, atleast 20% of the end game party gameplay, oh boi am i going homeless in the next 10 years.. L2 has been and always gonna be my number 1 game ever!
EverQuest bards were pretty cool, the support songs are an integral part of any group. I have one in every single one of my groups, 158 accounts, I “solo” raids, each group has a Bard playing either + Magic Songs or + melee songs, haste, HP/Mana regen, they add a little DPS. It’s a cool way to add support. This sounds just like EQ.
EverQuest did bard right. At least early in the game development (only played up to velious expansion). Different instruments were used for specific types of songs (ex: drum for buffs, horn for dps). Hopefully they use a similar mechanism
Bard needs to be able to increase the DPS of the party more than getting another DPS or they will be less optimal than another DPS. With damage buffs to the whole party this can be accomplished. With mana recovery they can also allow for less downtime for the whole party. They could also have attack speed buffs and such. The point is they always needs to be more efficient in a full party than one more DPS. So they have to increase the output of the party by more than another DPS would. They don't need to trivialize mana to be useful. The could however trivialize mana potions which saves gold for the party. That's great design in my opinion.
Endless mana means encounters need enrage mechanics. This is why WoW had those after TBC. Mana running out is in itself an enrage mechanic that is handled through a bard's gameplay. Good bard translates to more time to kill thr boss. Love your videos but man your hot takes are quite out there some times.
Having a support role is good for diversifying gameplay. What I fear from the clip of steven is the comment about having the bard being an essential part of the parting being proficient and the fact that the bard seems to be the unique class filling that role. IF you can pick forms several classes to fill the tank/dps/healer but only have one viable and necessary support option that is terrible balance. So I do hope that the bard is not mandatory in all parties to be efficient. And to be clear, even if it's not mandatory technically, meaning you can still win the fight without them, if their pretense make the fight substantially "easier" this will be optimized by the community and parties will make it a requirement...
To me, the better designs of Bard was eq and eq2 different bards for different classes troub and dirge. And the way he decribed them sounds just like EQ bards, so im happy with that.
Every passive player wants to be a bard also known as an enchanter. It's going to be popular but the glut of such support skill is integral of a group. The idea is non healers will be an archetype that is a glut as in a passive buff.
I would REALLY like to see a purely Crowd Control focused class like Everquest had in the Enchanter. SOOO many games borrowed from EQ, yet very damn few ever even tried to introduce such an amazing pure support class that was still fun AF to play. In the original Archeage I did manage to simulate the class that did most of the CC work. It was actually very powerful, but painfully off-meta. Trying to find people that had a clue how to play with a pure CC class was difficult. But plucking the captain of a ship off their wheel and forcing it to go dead in the water was absolutely amusing.
Hope you can buy pieces of music to play as a recreation in the game. So as a form of entertainment. I like the idea of a groip of people sat round a fire drinkong and dancing with music being played
AoC bard sounds a lot like how bards used to work in everquest online adventures. Unsure if AoC bards will have damaging abilities but that's how it worked in EQOA. Although the DPS of a bard was reduced somewhat they had 2 specs to either increase damage output or increase mana regen for the party. This allowed better sustain to fight longer without taking a break.
My only hope is that bards arent "required" to complete difficult content. If there's a variety in support types who can cover the role, I'll be pretty content.
Great video. Can't wait for Alpha 2. One thing I will point out about your concerns about the bards, is that Lineage 2 definitely thrived because of their ability to properly implement this 4th archetype into their game. However, you are definitely onto something when you say it doesn't feel fun when your skill resource is managed by another player. There is a trade-off to be acknowledged here, that I hope they can convince the player base is worth it.
Can’t wait! I want to run a Bard Class. I’m going to craft a flute that looks just like a giant schlong and name my Bard “Zamfir - Master of the Skinflute”
Heal/support is best represented by Schrodinger's Healer: if the encounter requires a healer, and you have one, it's balanced, but if you don't, you'll have a hard time. If an encounter DOESN'T require a healer, and you don't have one, it's balanced, but if you do, it's a cakewalk. Plus, as per the nature of the fact you're dropping DPS to heal and support, the benefits of the support means the outcome has to be more damage than if you were being a DPS yourself; it'd be insane to enable a warrior with 2.1x their normal damage to account for your DPS, if you're being a pocket support, so they try to split it up, making it so you buff a party of 5 by +0.3x each, for a total support value of 1.5x the value of if you were just DPS. However, that means you have to actually HAVE a party of five, and your value drops like a stone if you have less than that. It's an issue GW2's thief venoms run into, when there's little value to bringing venoms for yourself, but a massive value if you hit five players with them. I don't know how Ashes is gonna handle Schrodinger's Support, but the ability to crossclass/mixclass means it'll be significantly less of an issue than if you were forced to commit to pure support.
This will be unpopular, but it would be cool if when you used a skill you had to press a few keys as "notes." The skill goes off no matter what, but if you get it perfect its a stronger buff...or something. Not all skills, just skills that would normally lock you in place anyways. You aren't moving anyways, why not make it interesting.
I really enjoyed the older chronicles of lineage 2. They had several different type of non healing support classes. Each focusing a bit more of different types of buffs. Either focused more on damage, Defense, Party buffs, whole guild / alliance buffs. I imagine the bard having a basic kit of buffs and each secondary archetype would lean more specific to either more defensive buffs, damage based buffs or guild buffs (bard/bard). But that is just speculation. I enjoyed playing support classes in Lineage 2 and had my fun with them. They were highly sought after. So I could imagine that bard will take a nice role in group play. Very excited for Wednesday! Not knowing what will come. As soon as I read that ashes will have a Bard class, I knew I would choose him.
I think outsourcing the other players' resource management to the Bard is ok in situational circumstances. I agree that resource management should be part of your class gameplay but there could be situations where having a Bard shoulder that burden becomes important, if not essential. for certain fights. Picture the warlock tank in Twin Emps in vanilla wow. You wouldn't have a warlock tank a boss under normal circumstances but having one fight where its damn near essential adds some flavor to raid group mechanics/design. The Bard could equip certain gear or spec into certain talents to fill a necessary role to allow the team to overcome a raid boss. In other circumstances the Bard could fill different roles within the group. That way the bard is not just a mana battery or buff bot.
I have a lot of ideas about Bard. You could make a Bard more powerful as it gets closer to the front line. This introduces skill and a risk/reward. A Bard could summon local creatures or unseen entities to fight for it. A Bard could turn an enemy against its own people. I picture a Bard producing temporary "things" out of music. A Bard could affect the node somehow by accelerating something like node completion or some attribute. I have all kinds of out-of-the-box ideas that I can think of for Bard. Sitting in backlines and boosting mana is not necessary. As for aesthetic, I would love a Bard to have rock music mixed in with the local culture's style. There's a lot of ethnic music that uses heavy metal to make their traditional music more interesting. I also think of Jethro Tull. Imagine rocking out with a flute on the front lines. I have all kinds of ideas for Bard that can be shoehorned into an mmo like Ashes.
I love the idea its like a passive aggressive character playing instruments smoothly with grace but causing some SERIOUS damage 😂 make a rogue think twice type build hahah
rewatching the fighter class stream theres something missing/wrong about the swings i think its something to do with like how timing of each swing and how fast it is
Yes, the bard fits into MMORPG gameplay. The bard was once an important part of any party, as non-healing support. Over time, the bard was disassembled and its skills and abilities given to other classes and archetypes, or prescribed to pieces of equipment and consumables... I presume to add more buttons for these core (tank, healer, dps) classes to push. This is unfortunate IMO, because a whole class fantasy and role was removed for the sake of combat systems (again, more buttons), detracting from immersion and variety for, ultimately, addons and macros and an increased yet false sense of superiority largely dependent upon internet connections speed and how advanced your computer happens to be. So, bring on the bard, and perhaps "modern" gamers will learn a thing or two about class fantasy and diversity, and maybe (just maybe) they will find that they actual prefer it to the same ol' trinity that they are so used to, even with a few less buttons to push.
I mean, ig i understand your reservations. But it feels like it kinda shows how few mmos narc has played? I really don't want to be rude or anything, narc is probs my fav mmo content creator at this point. But you gotta look at what buff classes can provide beyond just mana or small hp amounts. Attack speed, damage mitigation, movement speed, passive gen for resources, ect. It's a very valuable setup in the long run. Hell, if the class can buff stats and gear is stat locked then twinking could be a thing again. God i miss the old days in anarchy online, lol.
@@kainslegacy7 All a bard has to offer, in order for people to play it, is something that no other class can do. It is that simple. Now, the question of "fun" is different from this. Hopefully, the bard is designed to be engaging as well as useful, and that will make the class much more appealing. So, a variety of buffs (as you noted) could go a long way to address this. What Narc seems to imply here is that bards are not common in new games, therefore they are bad. This is simply not he case. It is up to the devs to design a fun class to play, regardless of role. It was lazy development that led to the removal of the bard in the first place... specifically, the cannibalization of that class to bolster other classes, which were underdeveloped.
Bard is very popular class. You have EQ, FFXI/XIV, DDO, and many others. Bards typically gives buffs and usually can heal, just not as well as main healers. I'm convinced that Blizzard hates Bards. There is no reason WoW shouldn't have Bards other than when it was young they didn't want to be an EQ/FFXI clone. WoW was popular not because the classes were well designed. It was popular because they moved away from some of the negatives that people hated from earlier MMORPGs such has XP penalty when you died. Making grouping required. Being super grindy to level.
The design this game has on paper is of the design of a REAL mmorpg, like Lineage 2 was, he explains well what he wants and what he usually wants is also what I think it's the best for this type of game. The only thing I dislike is forced pvp, I think the Throne and Liberty pvp system is better, can be better but I don't think the "risk" factor is needed for a PVE genre where PVP is casual and meme lvl.
Last couple videos makes me think Narc is very nervous haha. What if alpha 2 comes out and its just bad? Like irredeemably bad? Would be RIP mmo's. But nah, itll prolly be fun. With plenty of time to fine tune it.
im hyped for the game but i cannot bring myself to give ANY money until an actual open beta/alpha happens where people who havent pre-ordered can actually try it out. its a very hyped up MMO that is taking forever to release and slowly losing its crowd until they showcase new stuff
also "are these classic styles of gameplay going to work in the modern world" like bro we've waited for this game for like 7 years, he's making the game for old men at this point... we want some of the classic gameplay styles hahah
I'd bet you the farm that Lineage 2 failed because of how ncsoft turned their game f2p-p2w and refused to do anything about bots. Not because of how SwS/BD and buffs worked. Im looking forward to Ashes bard :)
Archeage was the best game made. The monetization screwed it up. Especially the gear breaking. They finally changed that, but it was too late. Combat was fun. I don't even like PVP and enjoyed the hell out of the thrill of transporting goods while being able to be attacked the whole time.
Also, no, mmorpgs are not "combat games" like action games or something, play Elden Ring. MMORPGs are Social games with strategic role based and cooperation combat, and "fun" or "boring" IT'S SUBJECTIVE. Some people find Flight Simulator fun, some Baldur's gate, some Elden Ring, some hate them all. MMORPGs are fun if you want the experience of a mmorpg. If you want action with people, you have dozens of lobby pvp/pve games already, go play that.
Monetization has nothing to do with Lineage 2 mechanics and it's a fallacy because we compare with classic L2 which was subscription for 7 years, also private L2 servers have more people than any mmo except WoW and 14.
The idea of popularity meaning quality is incorrect, a good mmorpg won't be popular, garbage can be pretty popular, we don't care who plays what, if we have people for game world is enough.
Can feel it, grouping up without healer und buffer was a mess in the early L2 gaming. Sepcialy without buffs form the prophet. Thats why i have often problem with mordern mmorpg. They most lost the feeling for me in the term that i play a special chracter/roll in the world. Something that u only can find in games of the old nice days.
i literally couldnt care less at this point. i just want to fucking play the game. we have no good MMOs. period. and its been like fucking 200 years at this point. why bother.
⚠REMINDER⚠This upcoming showcase is delayed to the Wednesday 31st! I forgot to mention that in the video my bad!!
come hang out in the mean time for more copium: www.twitch.tv/Narciverse
Thanks, was gonna comment to ask
Narc's Copium being delayed. 😆
6:00 i HIGHLY disagree and as someone with over 3000 hours in eso, i can say that pots, food, and drink items arent hard to manage but just time consuming to farm for if you make them yourself and nothing more than a money sink if you have the money to just buy them and in combat, they arent hard IN THE LEAST to manage use of but just something to think about every so often that with the right pots and food items on the right build makes you immortal cause they let you mindlessly spam abilites like a brainlet. i think you are forgetting the major draw of ashes where EVERYONE has to be super specialized into ONE SINGLE role and NO ONE can be a walking solo god who can do everything themselves being the entire draw and in eso for example, there are PLENTY of abilites, CP points, and gear sets based on restoring resources to the group meant for healers to use but when you can just buy pots and get around it, it kills the entire need for a group memeber to manage resources killing just a bit more in terms of options for unique and specialized builds and reducing the number of players a group needs to the point that the 4 man groups in esos LFG tool are made up of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 dps instead of 1 support to help give the chance for a mana/stamina battery healer and to seperate the healers from being the buff givers that they are now as they have no need really to do too much healing and are more like dps who throw out specific area of effect buffs and healing while doing a shit ton of dmg cause healing scales with weapon and spell dmg.
legit seperating healers from being buff givers is not only a good idea in general but especially in ashes because its been made pretty clear that potions are seemingly at most going to only be the hard to get and very valuble OH SHIT button if you make a major mistake and not something your expected to use if your playing well meaning healing will be VERY hard to come by and so if healers have to manage 15 differnt buffs AND keeping idiots who like to stand in stupid alive, thats gonna be pretty taxing when they are expected to ACTUALLY play as a proper healer keeping people alive and bring back those who have died so having a secondary support in the form of the bard to provide the buffs and even debuffs is going to be a great way to help what i believe will be the hardest class to play in ashes.
6:43 no its not because of the inspiration from those games and i think your probably still a bit to focused on the 'MMOs' we have today that are AT BEST solo player experiences AND you also are an artisan main so your already on some level a bit insane so you dont get that even amoung hardcore mmo players, spending 5 hours farming mats for your pots for yourself and your group before getting to use them on one single raid boss is NOT fun gameplay design ESPECIALLY when the minigames on crafting items seems to be that it wont even be able to be made as easy as buying them and than just pressing a button 500 times to make all the items you want but will actually be REALLY time consuming even on the item creation front. in other words, allowing for an easiily renewable way to regenerate mana through having bards who have to actually learn how to play their instruments and correctly to best maximize the resources they regenerate for the group so the group can try to focus a bit more on the fight itself especially with how tactics focused the game will be is a must.
like coming from the POV of a guy who plans to run a caravansary guild whos focus is on the creation and operation of caravans for ourselves and for other guilds who we contract with to transport their resources safely, the AVERAGE guard detail i plan to have as our standard protection plan is to have 3 summoners who focus on dps summons but CAN pull out healing or tank summons if the need arises AND if they do exist, focuses on summoning summons kinda of like the multiple summons of elden ring where 1 summon slot brings for multiple low level summons who each arent strong on their own but serve as multiple targets to make tanking ALL their dmg from multiple angles hard and stopping the dmg by hardfocusing one down also difficult with than 2 double tanks whose entire job is to stand beside each of the 2 double clerics whose main job is ressurection of anyone who might drop in an ambush with 1 bard as a mana battery riding the carriage and perhaps constantly playing songs to allow the tanks to maintain area of effect massive defense boost to hopefully force ambushes to target them instead of our healers or summoners with than a detail of 4 double rogues in a secondary part with one stationed behind the carvan at a distance keeping an eye out for approaching threats while the other 3 take up a formation with one on the main road further out ahead of the caravan and 2 following slightly behind both of to either side of the road in order to look out for upcoming threats and roadblocks as well as ambushes with in the event of an ambush whether its sprung intentionally to just kill them and move the fastest route possible or wasnt seen and actually did ambush the caravan, the rogues move in behind and pick off every backline support they can while the main caravan detail focuses on defense and making it a battle of endurance.
More expensive guard detail plans would include 2 ranger/summoners who are in carts on either side with 2 more bard mana batteries and 2 double tanks and healers with both sides having 1 of each with the bards again serving the same role with the ranger in peacetimes focused on arieal surveillence and during combat adding to the chaos as the tanks, healers, and bards move in to help the rogues crush the backlines with the most expensive adding in 2 to 3 summoners to either sides party and an extra pair of a double tank and double healer to add reduntancy in the case of an ambush or lucky pick with the summoners whole job to serve as brining in multi summoner summons to crush the backlines and in the event of the main party being wiped, take over the caravan and continue its transportation. like this will be a game thats difficulty WILL NOT be determined by how well you do your rotation and maybe that makes you think that it will be a game that makes each player a braindead idiot who requries no skill to play but this ISNT a single player action combat focused game and instead is going to HEAVILY be based on tactics and smart planning and working as a group effectively and effiecntly so as to cut down on the number of necessary players to make an encounter work out so as to not be crushed by the sure to be AOE abilites that will wipe poor positioning and zerging which we already see with how they have demonstrated in their boss design where zergs will face more and more devistating AOE moves up to the point of having to beat dmg checks or be nuked to oblivion.
He basically described bards from EQ almost to a T
EQ bards were dope, them bitches let u run in the air forever lol
I see someone mentioned EQ. I loved minstrels from LoTRO, whose mechanics were very much based on a variety of instruments.
Minstrels were heavy support until they revamped them. They added a bar with builders. Songs and ballads, which either emphasized support on one end or emphasized the war college on the opposite end.
If they have a minstrel type class from Daoc, I'll play the game. The Mez/stun heavy early version.
If it's anything like in Lineage 2, and I bet it will be better than it was in Lineage 2, it will be glorious.
Agreed. Overlord was a great class if you managed to get to that mass content and level.
The bard class rocks. I played a Dirge Melee DPS buff bard in EQ2. It was way fun. Not only can you DPS, but every MT raid group needs one in the leading tank group and one in the Melee DPS group. The troubadour was the Mage and Healer go to bard class. Bards comprise single and group buffs and defensive buffs for the tanks. The main raid boss de-buffs, and knowing when to pop your big cooldowns for a mass spike for group and raid melee DPS is clutch. A massive raid one-time, 10-minute cooldown AOE blocker and pocket res assisted the healers when people died. Group/raid speed buff when traveling from one target to the next. Dirge had an aggression transfer from one big spike damage melee class in the group to the tank, so they did not pull agro. Attack speed buffs, double attack increases, and increased melee cool-down speed buffs. All in all, the bard is a really fun class to play. The best bards can keep their rotations going and switch up songs and tactics depending on the encounter and how the fight progresses all while maximizing their own melee DPS and your group. If you have a good tank and good healers, you focus on maximizing your DPS buffs and forgo your regens, aggro transfers/reducers, and defensive buffs. If you have a bad tank or healer, you can concentrate more on the defensive rotation and songs for the group.
Holy shit you just brought back memories of playing dirge in EQ2 😮 thanks core memories unlocked
The Captain class in vanilla lotro was a fantastic example of a really well designed support class. They provided small support heals, (including improved in combat health/power regen) strong group buffing, and even an in combat rez. Given that Steven has stated the Cleric is the sole primary healer, it would be great to have the Bard provide some off healing and improved power regen, along with some temporary combat buffs
I'm glad they're copying niche oldschool designs. The last thing I want is another game trying to "reach a wider audience"... That's literally what ruined the MMO genre.
YES
And games in general
Correct.
Mount and costume farming and cash shop ruined the mmo genre for me.
If you can biy costumes in a webshop you should be able to buy a function that lets you see everyones real armor and weapon
Just hope they don’t niche themselves into Wildstar.
I remember Bards from DAoC, and their respective counterclasses in each of the realms. The Skald (Bard counterpart in one of the realms in DAoC) used to be an extremely fun class. For one, you had the fastest (group) speed buff outside of combat, which is super useful for traversing the map. On the other hand, you had songs to support the team (DMG Buff, Heal/Mana-reg, and even instant DD spells), while also being able to wield weapons and support with the damage. If they can create a similar player experience, the class will become a staple for group content and still be fun for solo content.
DAoC Bards are the best Bard class in any mmo, also can't forget they were the main source of a AoE mezz for the realm.
I always think about Skald when talking about bard in mmorpgs, DAoC bards were the best
DAOC was so much fun man I played Skald main soooo much fun zoooming around
Speed buffs and crowd control was a blast for my Minstrel in daoc.
loved my minstrel too
The healer for mana, if you run out of mana you die. Just the same as when you run out of hp. Or well, shortly after at least.
Not just mana, any archetype's resource like divine power, momentum, courage, stamina etc, maybe even threat. It is likely that they will not only be able to replenish resources, but drain them from enemies. I think it is also not important that all classes appeal to everyone. Every class doesn't have to appeal to high-octane football players, some may perhaps appeal to the strategic chess players and the over 50s.
Bards rule period. I’ve never had more fun than playing a Bard in EQ. Just love the Class ❤
Which period they rule? Women's? Or? Or why would you say period before actually using a period?
Ragnarok Online's Bard and Dancer (male/female variants) were awesome, they were archer based with both combat and support capabilities, male had a lute female had a whip
Ragnarok Online mentioned 👏
Imagine playing "guitar hero" during a combat to upkeep buffs, if you can't hit the proper notes for the given song, the quality of your buff can't be perfect :)
EQ bard, best bard
I liked DCUO's controller roll. It was a lot of fun, and a good controller made a big difference with sustain, buffs, and debuffs.
EQ and EQ2 rocked the bard class. Dirge and Troubadour. Max/Mining my raid Dirge and I would hit top tear DPS in groups. So much fun. I remember getting into pug groups to kill time or farm, and if some moron kept pulling aggro because they were mad at how slow the tank was pulling mobs, I would put the 20% aggro transfer on them to kill them faster so `they would rage quite and would drop the group. I remember a brigand challenged me to top DPS overall in a quick farm run, so during the fight, I transferred the old 20% aggro buff onto him during fights and watched him go from hero to zero to dead in one giant pull. He was so pissed that he raged, quit, and accused me of cheating. I laughed and told him I was playing a Dirge and using my tactical strengths to win the contest.
Bards were one of the biggest boons in FFXI, never couldn't find a party lol.
Lineage 2 has no bards. Lineage 2 has a warrior class that evolves with a class assencion into a warrior that gives buffs to the party, which is the Sword Singer, that is not a bard, the word singer fights with shield and sword, gives buffs by singing, which is one of the best things in L2 classes, roles, it's all magical and wonderful compared to any other mmo. L2 also has the Blade Dancer, which is the same but uses dual words and dances to give buffs. L2 has like 50 classes.
if it's anything like Lineage 2, atleast 20% of the end game party gameplay, oh boi am i going homeless in the next 10 years.. L2 has been and always gonna be my number 1 game ever!
Lineage2 was so much fun. Yeah you got ganked and lost stuff and the gold farmers were a problem but thats what made it memorable.
EverQuest bards were pretty cool, the support songs are an integral part of any group.
I have one in every single one of my groups, 158 accounts, I “solo” raids, each group has a Bard playing either + Magic Songs or + melee songs, haste, HP/Mana regen, they add a little DPS.
It’s a cool way to add support.
This sounds just like EQ.
Basically everquest style bard. Which was my first mmo
EverQuest did bard right. At least early in the game development (only played up to velious expansion). Different instruments were used for specific types of songs (ex: drum for buffs, horn for dps). Hopefully they use a similar mechanism
Oh I've never seen this TH-camr before I wonder if I'll be into his video.
- first title screen drops -
Well done sir, well done.
Can't wait to have my second favorite game to play the alpha.. First is SC and then Ashes! What a year!
Bard needs to be able to increase the DPS of the party more than getting another DPS or they will be less optimal than another DPS. With damage buffs to the whole party this can be accomplished. With mana recovery they can also allow for less downtime for the whole party. They could also have attack speed buffs and such.
The point is they always needs to be more efficient in a full party than one more DPS. So they have to increase the output of the party by more than another DPS would.
They don't need to trivialize mana to be useful. The could however trivialize mana potions which saves gold for the party. That's great design in my opinion.
When I hear how they describe the bard. Some aspects make me think of a mage bard from UO.
Rifts Bard was some of the best mmo gameplay ive had to date!! Loved it!
My plan in ashes was to be a bard who uses wands and becomes a master wand crafter....
Endless mana means encounters need enrage mechanics. This is why WoW had those after TBC.
Mana running out is in itself an enrage mechanic that is handled through a bard's gameplay. Good bard translates to more time to kill thr boss.
Love your videos but man your hot takes are quite out there some times.
Definitely going for a bard class, I used to play support classes in lineage 2 (mostly kamael) loos like they will be the muscles of the party
It's finally here and not a scam ! 😀😀😀 love those bright red names over everything- looks like Everquest alpha from 1997
Gotta be a balance in feeding mana as sometimes if you get a friend who makes you feel like a god thats man mode right there.
You should see Lotro's Minstrel. That's how you make a proper bard.
FFXI's bard was an incredibly important and powerful class. hope they took some inspiration from them prior to abyssea ruining the game.
Having a support role is good for diversifying gameplay. What I fear from the clip of steven is the comment about having the bard being an essential part of the parting being proficient and the fact that the bard seems to be the unique class filling that role. IF you can pick forms several classes to fill the tank/dps/healer but only have one viable and necessary support option that is terrible balance. So I do hope that the bard is not mandatory in all parties to be efficient. And to be clear, even if it's not mandatory technically, meaning you can still win the fight without them, if their pretense make the fight substantially "easier" this will be optimized by the community and parties will make it a requirement...
Go play bard in final fantasy 11. One of the most fun and best classes in the game.
To me, the better designs of Bard was eq and eq2 different bards for different classes troub and dirge. And the way he decribed them sounds just like EQ bards, so im happy with that.
Every passive player wants to be a bard also known as an enchanter. It's going to be popular but the glut of such support skill is integral of a group. The idea is non healers will be an archetype that is a glut as in a passive buff.
Steven understands what L2 or other games did well, L2 basically everything.
Trust me, it's gonna be good.
Source: Bro
@@sirbonobo3907 What can i say. Trust me
It sound too good to be true @@ImmortalityV
Sounds*
@@tobi1769 No worries mate, trust. Gonna be good.
There are 3 bard types in DAoC try them
I would REALLY like to see a purely Crowd Control focused class like Everquest had in the Enchanter. SOOO many games borrowed from EQ, yet very damn few ever even tried to introduce such an amazing pure support class that was still fun AF to play.
In the original Archeage I did manage to simulate the class that did most of the CC work. It was actually very powerful, but painfully off-meta. Trying to find people that had a clue how to play with a pure CC class was difficult. But plucking the captain of a ship off their wheel and forcing it to go dead in the water was absolutely amusing.
Hope you can buy pieces of music to play as a recreation in the game. So as a form of entertainment. I like the idea of a groip of people sat round a fire drinkong and dancing with music being played
Sounds just like the bard from ff11, and that's super exciting.
AoC bard sounds a lot like how bards used to work in everquest online adventures. Unsure if AoC bards will have damaging abilities but that's how it worked in EQOA. Although the DPS of a bard was reduced somewhat they had 2 specs to either increase damage output or increase mana regen for the party. This allowed better sustain to fight longer without taking a break.
My only hope is that bards arent "required" to complete difficult content. If there's a variety in support types who can cover the role, I'll be pretty content.
the best bard i've ever played was in darkage of camelot. Hope this AoC bard stick to this.
I hope to test it in Alpha2.
Every video i see, i’m impressed by cloacks movements.
Can anyone imagine how dope tomorrow is going to be... we've waited years for tomorrow to be, superior amounts of copium are pouring in atm
I love support classes, but they always suffer during solo play, solo questing etc.
The best bard classes are from EverQuest 1/2 period
bard go brrrr
Great video. Can't wait for Alpha 2. One thing I will point out about your concerns about the bards, is that Lineage 2 definitely thrived because of their ability to properly implement this 4th archetype into their game. However, you are definitely onto something when you say it doesn't feel fun when your skill resource is managed by another player. There is a trade-off to be acknowledged here, that I hope they can convince the player base is worth it.
So basically if u wanna spam abilities/melt thru bosses, get a bard in ur pt😂
Can’t wait! I want to run a Bard Class. I’m going to craft a flute that looks just like a giant schlong and name my Bard “Zamfir - Master of the Skinflute”
I really enjoyed lost arcs take on the bard.
Heal/support is best represented by Schrodinger's Healer: if the encounter requires a healer, and you have one, it's balanced, but if you don't, you'll have a hard time. If an encounter DOESN'T require a healer, and you don't have one, it's balanced, but if you do, it's a cakewalk. Plus, as per the nature of the fact you're dropping DPS to heal and support, the benefits of the support means the outcome has to be more damage than if you were being a DPS yourself; it'd be insane to enable a warrior with 2.1x their normal damage to account for your DPS, if you're being a pocket support, so they try to split it up, making it so you buff a party of 5 by +0.3x each, for a total support value of 1.5x the value of if you were just DPS. However, that means you have to actually HAVE a party of five, and your value drops like a stone if you have less than that. It's an issue GW2's thief venoms run into, when there's little value to bringing venoms for yourself, but a massive value if you hit five players with them. I don't know how Ashes is gonna handle Schrodinger's Support, but the ability to crossclass/mixclass means it'll be significantly less of an issue than if you were forced to commit to pure support.
Hope bards get mesmerize and speed song like in Dark Age of Camelot.
This will be unpopular, but it would be cool if when you used a skill you had to press a few keys as "notes." The skill goes off no matter what, but if you get it perfect its a stronger buff...or something. Not all skills, just skills that would normally lock you in place anyways. You aren't moving anyways, why not make it interesting.
Oooh, bards! I thought you were saying bods for the first 2 minutes of the video and was completely confused. 😂
best bard, Dark age of camelot. CC and small heals, with speed and endurance regen
I really enjoyed the older chronicles of lineage 2. They had several different type of non healing support classes. Each focusing a bit more of different types of buffs. Either focused more on damage, Defense, Party buffs, whole guild / alliance buffs. I imagine the bard having a basic kit of buffs and each secondary archetype would lean more specific to either more defensive buffs, damage based buffs or guild buffs (bard/bard). But that is just speculation. I enjoyed playing support classes in Lineage 2 and had my fun with them. They were highly sought after. So I could imagine that bard will take a nice role in group play.
Very excited for Wednesday! Not knowing what will come. As soon as I read that ashes will have a Bard class, I knew I would choose him.
Yeah blade dancer was a cool class. A nice mix of aoe party buffs and combat. It looked fun.
@@richarddavies7540yea indeed was actually my fast class that I played.
I think outsourcing the other players' resource management to the Bard is ok in situational circumstances. I agree that resource management should be part of your class gameplay but there could be situations where having a Bard shoulder that burden becomes important, if not essential. for certain fights. Picture the warlock tank in Twin Emps in vanilla wow. You wouldn't have a warlock tank a boss under normal circumstances but having one fight where its damn near essential adds some flavor to raid group mechanics/design. The Bard could equip certain gear or spec into certain talents to fill a necessary role to allow the team to overcome a raid boss. In other circumstances the Bard could fill different roles within the group. That way the bard is not just a mana battery or buff bot.
I have a lot of ideas about Bard. You could make a Bard more powerful as it gets closer to the front line. This introduces skill and a risk/reward. A Bard could summon local creatures or unseen entities to fight for it. A Bard could turn an enemy against its own people. I picture a Bard producing temporary "things" out of music. A Bard could affect the node somehow by accelerating something like node completion or some attribute. I have all kinds of out-of-the-box ideas that I can think of for Bard. Sitting in backlines and boosting mana is not necessary. As for aesthetic, I would love a Bard to have rock music mixed in with the local culture's style. There's a lot of ethnic music that uses heavy metal to make their traditional music more interesting. I also think of Jethro Tull. Imagine rocking out with a flute on the front lines. I have all kinds of ideas for Bard that can be shoehorned into an mmo like Ashes.
I love the idea its like a passive aggressive character playing instruments smoothly with grace but causing some SERIOUS damage 😂 make a rogue think twice type build hahah
rewatching the fighter class stream theres something missing/wrong about the swings i think its something to do with like how timing of each swing and how fast it is
so basically it's a healer that heals MP instead of HP
Narc had me confused. I was, what's a "Bod" =D It's Bard homie.
Yes, the bard fits into MMORPG gameplay. The bard was once an important part of any party, as non-healing support. Over time, the bard was disassembled and its skills and abilities given to other classes and archetypes, or prescribed to pieces of equipment and consumables... I presume to add more buttons for these core (tank, healer, dps) classes to push. This is unfortunate IMO, because a whole class fantasy and role was removed for the sake of combat systems (again, more buttons), detracting from immersion and variety for, ultimately, addons and macros and an increased yet false sense of superiority largely dependent upon internet connections speed and how advanced your computer happens to be. So, bring on the bard, and perhaps "modern" gamers will learn a thing or two about class fantasy and diversity, and maybe (just maybe) they will find that they actual prefer it to the same ol' trinity that they are so used to, even with a few less buttons to push.
I mean, ig i understand your reservations. But it feels like it kinda shows how few mmos narc has played? I really don't want to be rude or anything, narc is probs my fav mmo content creator at this point. But you gotta look at what buff classes can provide beyond just mana or small hp amounts. Attack speed, damage mitigation, movement speed, passive gen for resources, ect. It's a very valuable setup in the long run. Hell, if the class can buff stats and gear is stat locked then twinking could be a thing again. God i miss the old days in anarchy online, lol.
@@kainslegacy7 All a bard has to offer, in order for people to play it, is something that no other class can do. It is that simple. Now, the question of "fun" is different from this. Hopefully, the bard is designed to be engaging as well as useful, and that will make the class much more appealing. So, a variety of buffs (as you noted) could go a long way to address this. What Narc seems to imply here is that bards are not common in new games, therefore they are bad. This is simply not he case. It is up to the devs to design a fun class to play, regardless of role. It was lazy development that led to the removal of the bard in the first place... specifically, the cannibalization of that class to bolster other classes, which were underdeveloped.
Bard is very popular class. You have EQ, FFXI/XIV, DDO, and many others. Bards typically gives buffs and usually can heal, just not as well as main healers. I'm convinced that Blizzard hates Bards. There is no reason WoW shouldn't have Bards other than when it was young they didn't want to be an EQ/FFXI clone. WoW was popular not because the classes were well designed. It was popular because they moved away from some of the negatives that people hated from earlier MMORPGs such has XP penalty when you died. Making grouping required. Being super grindy to level.
The bard in Ultima online was my favorite
Question Narc? If the character generator releases, will you make a Narc or Asmondgold clone first?
You should look at the bard in everquest 1.
The design this game has on paper is of the design of a REAL mmorpg, like Lineage 2 was, he explains well what he wants and what he usually wants is also what I think it's the best for this type of game. The only thing I dislike is forced pvp, I think the Throne and Liberty pvp system is better, can be better but I don't think the "risk" factor is needed for a PVE genre where PVP is casual and meme lvl.
Aug in wow has me worried about any support spec
*Your party makeup will be whoever is online at the time.*
*A Bard allows you to make all party makeups better, and survive longer.*
I wanna see Rogue so badly 💔😭
🎉 First to the key!
First to the egg!
Last couple videos makes me think Narc is very nervous haha. What if alpha 2 comes out and its just bad? Like irredeemably bad? Would be RIP mmo's. But nah, itll prolly be fun. With plenty of time to fine tune it.
you haven't played archeage, you played its very early gameplay. you have no idea what songer/bard is for this game
I just think of Dark and Darkers Bard
I just want something playable
sigh
im hyped for the game but i cannot bring myself to give ANY money until an actual open beta/alpha happens where people who havent pre-ordered can actually try it out. its a very hyped up MMO that is taking forever to release and slowly losing its crowd until they showcase new stuff
I hope I will still be alive when this game is released in 2045.
what happeend to the bard video! I was watching it and now its gone??
Have they floated a year when we might expect to see this game launch?
"i have no experience on bard but i'm theorizing that bard makes this game boring" lol chill bro wtf hahaha
also "are these classic styles of gameplay going to work in the modern world" like bro we've waited for this game for like 7 years, he's making the game for old men at this point... we want some of the classic gameplay styles hahah
I'd bet you the farm that Lineage 2 failed because of how ncsoft turned their game f2p-p2w and refused to do anything about bots. Not because of how SwS/BD and buffs worked. Im looking forward to Ashes bard :)
Archeage was the best game made. The monetization screwed it up. Especially the gear breaking. They finally changed that, but it was too late. Combat was fun. I don't even like PVP and enjoyed the hell out of the thrill of transporting goods while being able to be attacked the whole time.
I mean FF14 Bard was a Mana/Stamina battery back in 2.0 iirc
Final Alpha 2???? Oh my God amazing. Cant wait for Alpha 3, 4 and 5!
There isn't any 3-5?
@@saltybulldog3241 ok, 2.1 , 2.2 , 2.3 and 2.4 then!
I like copium
Alas, no Warrior Priest for me
At their peak Archeage and L2 both had a shit ton of players with numbers far from niche.
I watch these copium videos as opposed to the actual dev streams at this point.
This game gon be good cant wait til it comes out in 2029.
Also, no, mmorpgs are not "combat games" like action games or something, play Elden Ring. MMORPGs are Social games with strategic role based and cooperation combat, and "fun" or "boring" IT'S SUBJECTIVE. Some people find Flight Simulator fun, some Baldur's gate, some Elden Ring, some hate them all. MMORPGs are fun if you want the experience of a mmorpg. If you want action with people, you have dozens of lobby pvp/pve games already, go play that.
Monetization has nothing to do with Lineage 2 mechanics and it's a fallacy because we compare with classic L2 which was subscription for 7 years, also private L2 servers have more people than any mmo except WoW and 14.
The idea of popularity meaning quality is incorrect, a good mmorpg won't be popular, garbage can be pretty popular, we don't care who plays what, if we have people for game world is enough.
5:35 you’ve never been more wrong. Liked the video tho 🎉
Can feel it, grouping up without healer und buffer was a mess in the early L2 gaming.
Sepcialy without buffs form the prophet.
Thats why i have often problem with mordern mmorpg. They most lost the feeling for me in the term that i play a special chracter/roll in the world. Something that u only can find in games of the old nice days.
Rogue class reveal when?
But can you level solo without being in a handholding B group
i literally couldnt care less at this point. i just want to fucking play the game. we have no good MMOs. period. and its been like fucking 200 years at this point. why bother.