NEMA 14-50 vs 6-50 for EV charging
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video, Chris shows the pros and cons of installing a NEMA 14-50 vs. a NEMA 6-50 receptacle for EV charging. For Level 2 EV charging, there is no functional difference between them because they are both 240-volt, 50-amp outlets. But the cost difference might surprise you.
➤➤Hubbell 6-50 receptacle (HBL9367) 👉🏻 handydad.tv/ycy3
➤➤Hubbell 14-50 receptacle (HBL9450A) 👉🏻 handydad.tv/641y
🎥 NEMA 6-50 installation 👉🏻 • Hubbell NEMA 6-50 Outl...
🎥 NEMA 14-50 installation 👉🏻 • Hubbell NEMA 14-50 Out...
🎥 NEMA 14-50 buyer's guide 👉🏻 • NEMA 14-50 Buying Guid...
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I almost had A heart attack. After 20+ years of TH-cam, this is the first time I actually watched the first video that popped up after my search and all of my questions got answered and the video was to the point and very well done. Thank You!
Mission accomplished! 👍🏻
Thanks for letting me know. 😊
@@handydadtv Same I've got a 6-50 installed already for a welder, wondering if I needed a whole new setup to charge the incoming ev.
That's a good point about the wasted wire and the cost ! Thank you for pointing it out. Those wires are not cheap. Even the Tesla wall charger installation uses only 3 wires. L1,L2 and the protection ground. I will be putting 6-50 thanks to your video. I didn't even know it existed.
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
I’ve had the NEMA 6-50 installed for years using a 50 amp breaker. It was originally for a leased Chevy Spark EV then a leased Chevy Volt before getting a Model 3 in 2018. It has worked flawlessly and connected to a used Tesla Mobile Connector & 6-50 Tesla NEMA adapter (I keep the original one in the trunk), it charges at the full 32 amps which is roughly 30 miles per hour. So I don’t see the need to spend the extra money on a Tesla Wall Connector. Thanks for the info Handy Dad.
Thanks, but it sounds like you knew everything already. 😉
6-50's are typically commercial grade, even when bought at Lowes or Home Depot. My 6-50 did just fine for 12 years. I replaced only because it was old, not because it was faulty.
Installed the Wall Charger at my house and the 14-50 at my in-law's house. Still waiting for my model Y. Thank you for the great videos!
Wow you’re prepared!
Thanks for the video. A subtle but important detail is that the 6-50 receptacle can be wired as shown with a #6/2 conductor, but you need to mark the white on each end with red or black tape as it is a hot. It is hard to find 2 conductor wire in red/black if you want to comply with the electrical code.
Thanks for the tip
THANK YOU for this video!!! Installing a new outlet at a new house for my Tesla. I already have a 6-50 plug end for my Gen 1 UMC. It's near impossible to find a 14-50 at a reasonable price for the Gen 1. I thought there was some advantage to 14-50 over 6-50. Thanks for explaining on your video that there isn't as far as the Tesla charging goes. That will cut my installation costs by 1/3 between the wire, outlet, and not having to buy a new plug end.
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Your video does not have NEARLY enough likes/view for how valuable it is. This short 6 minute video will save people hundreds of bucks in wire. I dont know why I never thought of that when thinking about how to wire up my EV charger haha. Will be going with the 6-50 when its time for sure!
Thanks so much 😊
Thank you for this information! Helped me better understand the function and the cost factor as I have a long run and never knew this!
Glad it was helpful
Thank you for finally explaining the difference! I just installed a ChargePoint charger and I was confused about which plug to buy with it. As it turns out, if you install a 60 amp breaker, both the NEMA14-50 and 6-50 can allow the charger to deliver 40 amps to the vehicle. If you hardwire the Chargepoint to the 60 amp breaker box, it will deliver 48 amps. So the electrician got rid of the plug entirely.
Keep in mind, even though you *can* charge at 48 amps doesn’t mean you should. It depends on your daily commute, but I charge at 15 amps on a nightly basis and it’s typically finished around midnight. No point in stressing your connections to recharge as fast as possible when the car will be sitting in your garage all night.
If you are using an outlet rated at 50 or using romex wire, you will need to use the 50amp breaker. You can only use the 60amp breaker with a hardwire install and thhn wire. This is one thing inspectors will get you on.
Your right, good point. I had mine hooked up with the 14-50 and my RV would work with it but then I bought a Tesla charger and replaced it with that so I could just keep the mobile connector in my trunk. The Tesla wall charger only needs the two wire set up also so you are correct about it not using the white common wire if you use the three wire set up and don't have an RV and never will your just wasting money for sure, great video.
Thanks so much 😊
Once we close on our house I will be installing the NEMA 6-50 to charge my Tesla as my wife has an electric kiln that uses the 6-50. I’ll get double duty out of the outlet. Thanks for the video
Good plan!
I had 6-50 installed when I leased the 2013 Volt. Have used it to date with the Smart EQ EV. Anticipate using it when I get the Model Y.
Have you ordered the Y yet?
@@handydadtv Not yet still have time on the Smart lease. Y delivery time is about 7 months.
Thanks for this, confirmed my plan for 6/2 wire!
Glad it was helpful
Very concise and informative. Just starting to consider a PHEV and the infrastructure required. Subscribed!
Thanks for subscribing! Welcome to the family!
Thank you for clarifying these plugs! I have the 6-50 in my garage because I do welding from time to time. The rep from the Tesla electric division insisted on the 14-50. I immediately ask why if, technically, batteries are DC current and there's no need for the fourth prong. "It is a battery we are charging, right?" The stumped young man went away confused about not having a re-buddle!
Bottom line, I need my 240 multi-function receptacle to service all my needs. I wasn't going to have a sales rep sell me; otherwise, the product-producing norm to the untraded commoners market. No pun intended to the non-trade. Tradesman and builders alike share a common bound to reciprocate in the know! Yep! I planned my Tesla arrival months before and installed the receptacle for everyday use and my Tesla charging optimization! I will share this with all whom I know owning Tesla vehicles! Now, I'm sharing it with you!
Thanks!
Down side is you can get an adapter to plug into the 14-50 to get 120V out of the outlet. Without the neutral, the 6-50 can't do this.
True but that’s a very rare use case.
great video . I would never have thought of that.
Glad it was helpful
Wow! Great information. Thank so much!!
My pleasure
Another great and informative video Chris! Thanks. We recently built a new home and I had our contractor put a 14-50 in the garage for our "Future Tesla". I enjoyed and learned a lot about the 14-50 in and chose the Hubbel based upon your recommendations. Keep up the good work. Cheers.
Thanks so much 😊
Hey. Did you have your builder install 6/3 or 8/3 electrical wiring?
I just bought a house that already has a 6-20 outlet installed. So, I’ll just use that for my Tesla Model 3 (15 mph charging, vice the 30 mph with 14-50 or 6-50). If or when I decide I need a faster charge, I’ll come back and watch this again! Thanks for all the info, though. I find it fascinating!
Depending on your daily commute, you’ll do fine with that outlet. I only charge at 15 amps daily.
Well explained. To the point. Good job. Thanks for the video
Thanks so much 😊
Very helpful thank you
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Great comparison with this two NEMA outlet because I been looking for NEMA 1450 only because I have no idea about the other 6-50 and since I keep looking when this 1450 NEMA but it always out of stock and the NEMA 6-50 is available now so I go with that. I keep waiting for 14-50 for quite sometime but it seem it will not be available anymore. Thank for your blog.
Glad it was helpful
The nema 14-50 adaptor is available right now on the tesla website grab it while it lasts.
Thank you very much for this very informative video.
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Also important when tightening the wire to the Lugs is to shake/wiggle the wires a little to allow the strands to mesh while tightening. I also add a little No Alox grease on the threads to improve the clamping. I use 6-50 also. No need to have a Neutral unless a Dryer or Stove has a 120 v need. Save the copper for others.👍
Thanks
So can you just not hook up that neutral and use the 14-50 with 2 hots and a ground?
The 14-50 has a neutral, although your appliance may not use it.
The 6-50 is a receptacle with no neutral.
Thank you for making this
My pleasure
If you have an RV than use a 14-50, if you have a welder than use a 6-50 and if you have both than use a 14-50 with a 14-50 to 6-50 adapter cable witch covers both and your EV charger.
Good summary
I should have also mentioned that when you run your cable it should be 6/3 75 C rated cable like THW, THWN ,SE or the same type not just regular 6/3 which is only rated for 50A . The better cable is rated for 65A which at a later day if you want to upgrade to the Tesla charger for 48A charging you only have to change your breaker from 50A to 60A. that couple of extra $ on install could save you a fortune at a later date.
I know people go nuts about high rates of charge, but 32-amps with UMC was absolutely fine and the cord isn’t as thick and heavy as the wall charger. I have a video in the works on this topic.
And the adventurous/inventive guy could use the 14-50 to wire up a 50amp portable subpanel for more outlets in the shop just make sure you include a GFCI breaker at main panel.
@@lesw8798 This is what we did(6.3 6 AWG THWN) just in case I want to change to the Wall Connector later. We did a 14-50 because it's a little more versatile and the run was only about 20'.
So far the 32amp UMC has been more than adequate, but if we ever want more we'll swap out the breaker from 50 to 60 AMP and cap off the extra(white) wire in the panel and at the junction where the adapter was since hardwired EVSE only needs two hot leads.
Good info on the outlet differences. I noticed that you have two breakers on the bench and it looks like one is gfci. My main business now is installing EV chargers (EVSE) and getting away from plug-in all together. Many plug-in units come only with the 14-50 plug which limits you to the more expensive outlet and extra wire. The code has changed and although not everywhere has adopted it (they will eventually), it requires the more expensive gfci breaker. At my costs, it is almost cheaper for me to provide a hardwired unit than install an outlet.
Thank. I’m not recommending any outlets these days. I addressed the GFCI requirement in this video:
th-cam.com/video/BixGQisysDc/w-d-xo.html
@@handydadtv Good deal. Will watch the vid you linked. Thanks
GFCI is required whether the unit is cord and plug connected or hardwired. If you look up the definition of “outlet”, in the NEC, you will find it is the point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. In a hardwired configuration, it is the point where your power is connected to the charger. Code say every outlet, not receptacle. I don’t agree with the requirement, but, it is in the code.
@@littleprincess4417 Unfortunately the Code is sometimes as confusing as the Tax laws. Most EVSE units have GFCI in the unit. Practically speaking, the interpretation of the Code rests with inspectors and a State's board. In NC, that update in the Code has not been accepted/adopted yet so a GFCI breaker is not required in either case. If the change is adopted, I am told that it will only apply to receptacles and not hardwired EVSEs. This is why it is important to obtain a permit and inspection, not only to have the applicable interpretation but also proof that work was done by Code in case of insurance claims.
@@4x2-evno government inspectors on my property. I hire union electricians from a union shop. Why does everyone run to the government for permission, validation, etc. Trust the tradesmen. Where I live, an inspector exists to find something wrong somewhere in the house. So even if its not part of the permitted work, they still snoop around looking for code violations. Fuq the government and their lacky bureaucrats
I believe you’ve missed several important points. 1: Fire is one of the most serious outcomes if proper installation is not followed. The considerable heat repeatedly generated with each charge session will cause the connection to loosen. The Hubbell 16-50 receptacle actually cradles each wire as the hex fasteners are tightened, and this is especially important because the wire is stranded, and if it’s tightened with a screw, it will have a tendency to spread the wires resulting in a less secure connection. This could result in additional heat generated during charging. Also, it’s important to torque and wiggle each connection several times between turns to assure they are tight. The directions included with the Hubbell give the proper torque setting. The considerable heat repeatedly generated with each charge session can cause the connection to loosen. 2. The $75 Hubbell from Amazon is made of Bakelite material which has a much higher heat tolerance than the cheaper 16-50’s versions, which can melt due to the heat. 3. 6 gauge stranded wire is best; you always want to anticipate a higher charging rate (say 48 amp) and spend a few more dollars now during installation! Better safe than sorry.
Sorry, I meant 14-50 NEMA receptacle.
Thanks for the feedback. I addressed these items in a follow up video: th-cam.com/video/1BnK4a4aVpU/w-d-xo.html
I put in a 6-50 so I can use the outlet for a welder also. I have no use for the common on my 240 outlet. The extention cord for the 6-50 was consiferably less expensive also.
Copper is expensive. 👍🏻
Just found your channel subscribed ❤ love your style first of all!
Question for you please
What’s the difference between a nema 14-50 and 14-50R ?
Also would you have a link for one I could buy to support your channel with the face plate and junction box (if I’m saying that right ) ?
Thanks for subscribing! Welcome to the family!
14-50R = NEMA 14-50 receptacle
14-50P = NEMA 14-50 plug
You should find links to everything I used in the description. Thanks 😊
@@handydadtv love it
Hey you are easy to listen to and made to have a TH-cam channel thank you. I have (after watching your video) a 14-50 outlet behind my electric range that I want to split safely to charge my soon to be delivered Rivian EV pickup. I have seen a couple of products made for doing that with a 30 amp dryer circuit but how would I do that same thing for a 40 amp electric range plug with the 14-50 plug ? Is everything I might need at Home Depot ?
I doubt you’ll find a 14-50 splitter at Home Depot. You can definitely find them on Amazon.
I can’t imagine what that will look like (having a cord coming from behind your stove. You’re getting a RIVIAN, my friend! Get yourself a hard-wired Level 2 charger. I recommend the Emporia: handydad.tv/kuok
@@handydadtv thanks but I'm pretty sure I only have a hundred amp service which is why I still want a splitter. My electric range is right next to my outside wall could go in my crawl space and out where I need it in about 12 ft. And 40 amps beats 30.
I have a bolt, a rivian and a ford escape plug in. All three came with 14-50 cords. I believe that 14-50 is the choice moving forward and anything heavier than 50 amps should probably be hard wired.
Good to know. Thanks.
thank you
My pleasure
I had one of those Leviton 6-50 outlets that welded itself to my EVSE (30 amp) plug a couple of years ago. At the time, I was not aware of the differences in outlets and just assumed that I had a loose connection and replaced it with another Leviton and carefully installed the wires. I eventually became aware of the issues with light duty outlets and purchased an Eaton Industrial 6-50 for $25. Before I installed the Eaton outlet, I came across your videos on the Hubbell outlet. I decided to spend the extra money on the $45 Hubbell 6-50. However, I was disappointed to see that the 6-50 did not use the yoke type clamp for the wire contacts, and just a small screw which smashes into the wire. Adding insult to injury there must have been some quality issue with the Hubbell because the plug could not be fully inserted into the outlet. I installed the Eaton 6-50, which does have yoke-style clamping for the wires. I did return the Hubbell for a replacement but I probably will not install it since I've been monitoring the temps on the Eaton plug connection with good results. Yes, the Hubbell 14-50 is more expensive than the 6-50 but it is far superior in the critical area of the wire connection.
Good point. Thanks.
That why I always use ferrules on stranded cables to avoid smashing the wires. I use then in the plugs and in the breakers too. Never had a problem .
What's up with the live loop on your channel? Reminds me of those auto rewind VCRs that would play all day inside Kmart's
Lol! Just an experiment.
I have a 10-50R connected to a 40a breaker.
I have seen 6-50 to 10-50 adapters at Home Depot. Just curious what your thoughts are on this being a cost save in the short term. Any issues with using this method? I have a MIG welder and ARc welder that use the 10-50, if I replace the outlet to the 6-50 outlet, could it convert the welder plugs to 6-50?
It’s fine to use a quality, short adapter cord. Just remember to limit your charging to 32 amps, which is the most you can do with a 40-amp breaker.
Update to my Nema 6-50 for level 2 EV charging is all can say it work great, no issue it charged faster than the regular 110 volt. I schedule my charging during midnight start at 12.30 am till 4:30 am or up to 95% charged to Tesla M3 SR.
Thanks 👍🏻
I have limited elec knowledge and want to ask about the wire gauge. If the level 2 charger I’m getting says 42-48amps, I’m assuming I’d get a 50amp breaker which means the higher gauge wire (6/2 vs 8/2)?? I’m in Florida too so temperature is a factor, correct?
Your charger can only use 80% of the breaker’s capacity. I have a 50-amp breaker so my max charge is 40 amps using 6 gauge wire. To charge at 48 amps, you’d need a 60-amp breaker.
Climate has no impact.
Here is a good chart for wire sizing. assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/newsletter/images/DC_wire_selection_chartlg.jpg
Unrelated question, what brand/material slatwall is that? Thanks.
I bought it from a local home center over 20 years ago.
i have a 6-50 outlet in my garage...i am considering going to a taycan which has a 14-50 plug...if they don't make a specific adapter is there an adapter or converter that i can use from my 14-50 car into my 6-50 outlet? thanks
Here is the adapter you need www.amazon.com/dp/B07LGLJ26N?tag=ha0d9f-20
I currently have a 14-50 already installed and looking to swap out to a 6-50 outlet. Would I be able to just leave out the neutral (white wire) on the 14-50 and just connect the 2 power and ground on the 6-50 new outlet?
Yes. Just cap the neutral and stick it in the back of the box in case you ever want to go back.
A couple of things to consider… I have off peak charging set up with my power company. The power costs about a third of regular price, so its great! It has a seperate meter and control box between the main breaker box and my NEMA 1450 outlet. The control box requires I use the neutral wire on my outlet.
If you stick with EV’s, you will probably want to go off peak eventually.
You also don’t know what car maker you will go with next time, I have a Tesla Model Y now but love the trucks that are coming! The charger might require a neutral. I also have a garage heater that I can plug in to it which requires a neutral.
My advice is don’t be penny wise and pound foolish unless you are sure you will only ever need a 6 50. It’s much easier to disconnect an unneeded neutral than to reinstall new cable down the road!
Separate meter? Control box? What if you need to charge during the day in between trips? Is the outlet disabled until the power company allows you to charge?
@@handydadtv you charge whenever you need to charge. Only the rate changes based on time of day.
Thanks for sharing this. Can you share the size of the bare ground wire? I have the proper wire but the ground, does it have to be the same size (6-2)? I bought them separately and the ground wire is sooo heavy at 6 which is what the assistant recommended though I showed him a screenshot of how thin yours looks. Thanks for all you do.
According to NEC Table 250-122, a 10 gauge grounding conductor is appropriate for 30-60 amp circuits.
@@handydadtvThank you very much. I appreciate your time sir. Love your work 👍
The comment about the NEMA 14-50 being used by RV's is an important one. While it might cost you a bit more to install a NEMA 14-50, it makes the resale value increased more than the extra cost to install the outlet as an EV owner would value it, but so would a RV owner. Also the NEMA 14-50 is much more widely accepted for EV chargers. So if you sell your house the next user would likely have a 14-50 EVSE, or if you need to buy a replacement EVSE. Decision like this should always take the future into account, that's why installing these outlets on a 50 amp breaker also makes sense. De-rating it to a 40 amp breaker and wire to save a few bucks will bit you in the butt down the road.
Thanks for the tip
There are adaptarse for one to the other, so RV not withstanding, it should not affect home value at all.
@@irenecheca6575 no, that’s incorrect. A NEMA 6-50 doesn’t have a neutral so it can’t be used with a RV. A NEMA 14-50 is much more versatile.
Several vehicles come with a evse that will work on either 120v or 240v. The Honda Clarity and Toyota Prius Prime both use the same evse made by Panasonic. I've used that on 240v on my Honda Clarity for the past 3 years.
What plug does it have?
@@handydadtv It comes with a standard NEMA 5-15 plug. After finding out online that the unit was originally designed for 240v power in Japan, I made an adapter so I could connect it to a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Charges at ~11amps at 240v.
You should make a video to show how you did that. I’m sure a lot of other people would learn from it. I’m looking for creators to join HandyDadTV, if you’re interested in leveraging this audience. handydad.tv/join
@@mowcowbell The Volvo version has a standard NEMA 5-15 plug, and an adapter that changes it to a 6-20 plug for use on a 240V/20A circuit. An EV-MOD Turbocord. Made in the US ;-) It's pretty expensive ($550), but it's a lot cheaper to run a 240V/20A circuit than a 240V/40A or 50A circuit. The max charging rate on a Volvo XC60 plugin hybrid is only 16A anyway.
But I went with a 50A circuit/charger on 6-50 because I figured I might indeed buy a Tesla one day, but sure as heck would never buy an RV.
My situation is that the existing 240 volt outlet in my garage is a NEMA 10-30 (for the laundry dryer). The most current that I feel comfortable drawing from that circuit is 16 amps, which was fine for my Prius Prime, which has a 3300 watt on-board charger that draws 13 amps at 240 volts. But I will be replacing the Prius with a Rav4 Prime in 2 weeks, and this car has a 6,600 watt charger that pulls 28 amps, uncomfortably close to the maximum capacity of the 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge romex supplying that dryer outlet. So I need to install a new outlet in my garage with a 50 amp breaker and 6 gauge romex. The issue of needing a NEMA 14-50 outlet for RV service won't apply to me. My driveway is too short and too steep to put an RV there, so maybe the 6-50 outlet is all I need.
However, there's also maybe a problem with availability. Looking at both the outlets, and EV chargers, it's obvious that the NEMA 14-50 is far more common than the 6-50.
Thanks for this video!
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Great video! Just bought a model 3 and PO just had the standard house hold one but also a 14-50. I only have a 6-50 outlet in the garage. Is it at all possible to install a 14-50 outlet with only the 3 wires that are in the 6-50 outlet box?
The Tesla UMC should work on a 14-50 without the neutral wire. Why not buy the 6-50 adapter and don’t bother replacing the outlet? Much easier.
My bad, I actually have a 6-30 nema……I’ve been looking at so many adapters and plugs that I listed the wrong one. Tesla doesn’t make a 6-30…..must be too old.
I actually found an after market one (Tesla 6-30 adapter) that people seem to be happy with.
Hopefully it’s good!
You can replace the outlet with a 10-30 because it’s a 30-amp outlet. Tesla makes a 10-30 adapter (I wouldn’t use a 3rd party). You can’t replace it with a 14-50 because that’s a 50-amp outlet and your wire and breaker won’t handle 50 amps.
@@handydadtv
So how would you wire that up?
My 3 wire setup has a ground and all I have read says that the 10-30 is different…….also that they’re grandfathered but not to code or legal to install since about 1989……..I could be wrong but that’s what I’ve gathered
There should be three screws on the receptacle: one ground and two hots (sometimes labeled X and Y). The bare wire goes to ground and the other two wires go on X and Y. It doesn’t matter what color the wires are. It will work either way.
Very interesting. How come Tesla gives you an option of a 10-30 adapter if this is no longer considered adequately grounded. Thanks much.
Good question. I wouldn’t use that outlet for EV charging.
Will these work on 30amp breaker or should you use 50amp breaker?
Technically they are made for a 50-amp breaker, but you can use a lower one. With a 30-amp breaker, make sure your charging rate doesn’t exceed 24 amps.
I wanna install a outlet for my tesla,can you advise me what i need to materials to buy{cheapest]thanks
Follow the Tesla charger instructions. It tells you what you need.
Great vid, question is there a 14-50 female to 6-50r male adapter. Our EV came with the 14-50 but our apartment charging receptacle is a 6-50r , I’ve searched and search and cant seem to find one i see lots of the 14-50 to 6-50p adapters but not the 6-50r type
Ever ind i think i figured it out had the orientation wrong so theres actually plenty if adapters that will work
Good 👍🏻
I have a 6-20p outlet in my garage right now. We purchased a ev car and the plug end is a 14-50r. I’m try to make a short, extension, cord adapter, so I don’t have to switch out everything in my garage. Since I old have 3 wires in my existing 6-20 that’s in my garage already. How would I go about wiring that?
Not possible. The 6-20 is 20 amps at 120 volts. The 14-50 is 50 amps at 240 volts.
You need this th-cam.com/video/OfdEitiM6u0/w-d-xo.html
Hello! I recently bought a plasma cutter and it came with an adapter that has a nema 6 50 plug. I live in europe so i dont have acces to that type of plugs ... I have cut off the wire and made a conection to the machine by wiring ground, 220v hot wire and neutral to the machine. The problem is that wont mantain the cutting arc and after some researching i did find that nema 6 50r has two hot 220v wires and ground. Do you think i should wire 2 220v hot wires to the machine?
I would consult a local electrician. Speculation could damage the machine.
@@handydadtv Most countries in Europe run ONLY 240V, and there's really no neutral as we understand it. Which means that if a 6-50 is connected properly, it should work just fine. So something else is causing his problem.
Does it have any impact wrt heating/ charging ? Meaning nema 14-50 stays cooler can carry more power vs nema 6-50
No. They are both 50-amp outlets. But I personally reduce my charge rate to 15 amps to minimize heat.
I installed a 14-50 to use with a level 2 car charger. Now I’m installing a garage heater that uses a 6-50 and I want to utilize the 14-50 outlet. Should I wire the heater with a 14-50 plug instead of the 6-50 plug or buy and adapter?
I would probably use an adapter.
Sir, thanks a lot for detailed description, I have a question. I have 6 50 installed in my garage but I bought Tesla recently and noticed that I cannot charge using the 6 50 outlet. Can I buy an Adapter which enable me to convert the 6 50 outlet to 14 50 plug ? Please let me know. Thank you.
If it won’t charge with the 6-50 adapter, it probably won’t charge with the 14-50 adapter either. Figure out the issue first.
Thank you 🙏
your Tesla guide link says that the Nema 6-50 allows up to a 32 amp draw, however your video states it allows up to a 40 amp draw... pls clarify this
Plan to use 80% of the breaker rating as a max charge. That’s 40 amps for a 50-amp breaker. The Tesla UMC max’s out at 32 amps regardless.
Quick question - can you plug the 3 prong charging cable to the NEMA 14 50 plug?? That way, my level2 charger can take advantage of both the plugs depending up on my friends' garages when I travel.
The 6-50 doesn’t fit the 14-50.
@HandyDadTV Oh ok. Thanks for the video - I will buy the 6 50 & call it a day.
My Lincoln AC/DC welder says it needs a 60 amp breaker with 6 gauge wire. Is it ok to pair a 50 Amp receptacle with a 60 amp breaker? Thanks
Yes, you can use a lower amp receptacle than the circuit breaker size. But not the other way around.
The circuit breaker size is limited by the size of the wire.
@@handydadtv Thanks man that helps.
It looks like the answer may be, "NO".
I'll give you the code sections from the 2020 NEC.
110.14.(C).1.(a). Tells you to rate the wire/terminals at 60°C.
310.16 (table). Puts no.6 wire at 55 amps. @ 60°C
210.19.(B).(1). Single receptacle on a branch circuit rated not less than that of the branch circuit. There is an exception for welders .... Not less than the minimum conductor ampacity determined by 630.11(A). for arc welders.
630.11.(A). Asks for the current off the welder or rated current multiplied by a duty cycle multiplication factor in table 630.11.(A). To determine the ampacity of the conductors.
If the welder is less than 50 amps, leave the 50 amp breaker.
I also checked an "Electrical Forum"(Mike Holt) and have not seen where it is possible for 60 amp breaker and 50 amp recepticle. It appears underwriters labratory may approve, but the NEC does not. Do not cry though. Article 90.4 allows your local building to "interpret" the NEC and may approve this move. If not, consider removing the plug and hard wiring your welder. Keep the plug close, Incase you move it
Best wishes.
@@keithharrington4595 *Clarification 6AWG {copper} 55 amps NM "romex" style wire. 6AWG THHN is fine at 75A
@@cheddarcheese Yes sir. 2020 nec table 310.16 does rate number 6 thhn at 75 amps at 90 degrees c. For the wire.
However, 110.14.(C).(1). Demands that wire terminated to equipment (14 awg - 1 awg) be rated for 60 degrees c unless the equipment is rated differently.
So, to use the 75 amp rating, you must not connect, cannot connect, to a breaker at 60 c. You must use 3 awg to connect to the breaker, then splice to your number 6 awg wire and repeat this process at the other end end or only use the wire rating for the temperature rating of the connection......this case....breaker at 60 degrees c or only 55 amps.
If i am wrong, please let me know. I just did a car charging class and the instructor is "mis-teaching" the code.
A 32A 240V EVSE is around $200-300 these days. Just chop the plug off the EVSE and hardwire it to your 6/2 wire. There's never a need to unplug it. If you weld, or need to plug in an RV etc, do a second wire run just for that. Eliminates the need for a $100 Hubbell receptacle, and one less point of failure. Let's face it, if you're installing an EV charger in your garage, you bought an EV, and you are not going back to ICE cars. It's there forever.
I agree with hard-wiring, but disagree with hacking an EVSE. I suggest buying one that’s made for permanent installation.
I have 6-50 recepticle. I will be charging Model Y. Should I just use adapter on mobile connector?
Yes just buy the 6-50 adapter.
Sorry I am still confused. According to the specification: 14-50 is for three poles and 6-50 is two poles. I am pretty sure my current breaker is two poles. Can I install 14-50? It already has four wires : black, white, red, and ground. Thanks.
Yes, 3 conductors plus ground (4 wires) is for a 14-50. The white should be connected to the neutral bar in your panel.
Your home is set up to supply 240 volts at your panel. By using this high voltage, a smaller wire can be used to transfer the same amount of power from the panel to the loads. Large loads use 240 volts, like your dryer, your stove, or your water heater.
This voltage is split (120volts) to provide a safer voltage for most items, your lights and wall outlets, items that do not need several thousand watts of power to run. This is done by tapping into the transformer at the center point. This is your neutral wire.
Your water heater is supplied with 240 volts only to heat water. Your dryer and stove are supplied with both 240 and 120 volts. The 240volts do the major lifting, and their controls can run off the 120(clocks or timers). To get the 120 volts, the need that center tap, the neutral, the white wire.
So, if your charger is 240 volts and needs no neutral, you can hook it up like this video shows.
Make sure you label the recepticle as having "NO NEUTRAL". If someone tries to use that recepticle to supply two 120 volt loads in series one load can easily burn up. I would need much more space to explain that.
@@keithharrington4595 thanks for the clear explanation. Is neutral the 3rd phases?
@@darakhmao neutral (120V to each hot) and 2 hot wires (240V from each other)
@@darakhmao The neutral (white wire) is not a 3rd phase. Assuming you are in the United States.
Can I install a 14 50 without neutral wire?
Use a NEMA 6-50 receptacle
I had planned to install a 30A rv outlet as well as an EV charging plug, am I understanding that I may be able to get by with one plug to do both? I wired a temp 30A outlet for my in-laws camp trailer but was a 120v single pole. I currently have neither a travel trailer or EV but plan to use the property as a vacation rental. The basic difference between the two is that the 6-50 doesn't have a neutral, two hots and a ground? If that's correct is that a 6-2 wire? Thanks for any info
Sorry one more question, are you using 40 or 50 amp breaker for those and are they GFCI or arcfault protected? I saw arcfault breakers but no GFCI in 50A
The only RVs that use 240 outlets (I believe) are big ones, like 5th wheels.
Technically, code says every garage receptacle needs GFCI protection. I really recommend hard wired EV chargers to avoid the need for GFCI. th-cam.com/video/-NieHTM6U_s/w-d-xo.html
Chris, my house is only 100Amp, is it ok to install a NEMA14-50/6-50 ? if not what are my option? please let me know. thank you.
Theoretically, yes. To answer for sure, you should do a load calculation. Look for a video to show how, or consult an electrician.
When Tesla is out of the adaptor that connects the universal mobile charger that comes with the Tesla to a 14-50 outlet, is there a reliable place to buy them, preferably made in the USA? Not a cheap low quality one.
Tesla frequently sells out, but they restock often. Just sign up for the email notification. I don’t know of any third party manufacturers, but I wouldn’t put it past certain unscrupulous, patent-ignoring countries to produce bootleg versions. But please only buy genuine Tesla connectors, for safety’s sake.
thanks
Back in 2011 it was common to use the 6-50 outlet for EV's. For some reason the "standard" changed to use 14-50 nowadays and most plug in EVSE's have a 14-50 option but may not have a 6-50 option. It's a real shame this transition occurred. The reason I say this is because if you buy a 6-50 outlet there is a very good chance it will be commercial grade. 14-50 outlets can be purchased as commercial grade however a lot of the outlets available at home depot and lowes are residential grade and are NOT suitable for EV charging.
Now we have switched to 14-50 the opportunity for a DIY person to select the wrong outlet grade is pretty high and we have many examples online of outlets melting. I made this mistake as you did. I'm reformed now but most DIYers will make this mistake. Had we stuck with 6-50 the incidence of melted outlets would have been much less simply because 6-50 outlets at Lowes or Home depot are typical commercial grade; 6-50 is used for welders and you find those in commercial buildings. 14-50 is often used for dryers and they are most frequently found in homes.
If only we could go back in time and nudge the EV charging world in favor of the 6-50. What a shame, and it will bring a bad reputation to EV's as more outlets melt as EVs are adopted in ever increasing numbers. Codes will eventually catch up when enough homes have burned down.
I really prefer hard wiring to reduce the risk of issues.
@@handydadtv It's one set of connections less for sure. However we have to be cognizant that wires can still come loose at the EVSE or at the breaker. A loose wire can create series arcing and a fire risk and we have no protection against that. Codes really need to address arcing on EV circuits, especially since they are energized at high amperages for extended periods of time
I read in a Siemens document the following
"at the time of this print, there is not even a safety standard written that defines the requirements for AFCIs in 240V applications. "
Color me disappointed with the NEC codes. Clearly the manufacturers like Siemens will only make what will sell. If it's not mandated electricians and manufacturers will not address the risks. The pics you showed of melted outlets *is * scary and I hope someone with the influence to make changes recognizes the dangers before EV's are in every home.
Do u need a neutral wire even in the original drawing shows 2 hots and ground
Why nema14-50??
EVSEs don’t typically use a neutral, but the NEMA 14-50 requires one. It’s the most popular option for plug-in EVSEs.
does the ev car it's self really take in 50 amps on a 50 amp outlet???
You can only use 80% of the rated current. So 40 amps on a 50A breaker.
I routinely charge at 15A because that’s enough to recharge overnight while minimizing the risk of the wires and connections getting too hot.
Hmmm... I had a 6-50 plug installed by an electrician in 2011 when I bought my Nissan Leaf and was given a Blink Level 2 EVSE to go with it. 12 years later I sold the Leaf and bought a Tesla. Bought an adapter to use the J1772 and plug into my Tesla. 6 months later and now the Blink charger conked out. So I bought a Lectron brand charger, has the 14-50 plug. So I flip off the breaker and open up the wall socket containing the 6-50 plug. I see it has a neutral wire in the box, so I purchased a 14-50 outlet and associated hardware to install it (the 14-50 is bigger so it wouldn't fit in the same box the 6-50 was in). Get it all wired up and Amazon arrives just in time with the new charger.
Mounted the new charger on the wall (easy) and plugged it in. Display handily shows incoming voltage, 239v. Perfect. Plugged into the Tesla (this particular model comes with the Tesla connector) and my Model S throws an error and won't charge. Owner's manual is all of maybe 12 pages and it's mostly how to install the charger on the wall. So frustrated, there's no number to call, just email. Waiting for them to (hopefully) get back to me.
Meanwhile, to be sure the car was okay I took it to a local supercharger station and it charges just fine. So puzzled. Thinking maybe I should pull the neutral, since it isn't needed. Somehow I just imagine that would be a waste of time. I wonder what's wrong.
The 6-50 is a 240v outlet that doesn’t have a neutral. Even if one of the wires was white, it’s a hot lead. Make sure you connect them to the X and Y terminals on the 14-50; you won’t use the N terminal.
Thanks for the reply. To be clear, the 6-50 outlet was wired with a red hot and a black hot, plus a ground. Moving over to the 14-50, I simply moved the two hot leads to the new 14-50 outlet, plus the ground, then placed the white wire into the neutral spot. I can't imagine the white wire would be a hot lead, that would be three hots and a ground, very unlikely. The display on the charger is showing 239v so it should be good. I'm leery of sticking my cheapo meter into live AC outlets to confirm, but my other two options are to pull the white lead from the neutral or remove the circuit breaker panel cover to see exactly where these wires terminate in the box.
Oh! I assumed you had 2 conductors for the 6-50. But you had 3 and the white wire wasn’t used. Nice that the electrician ran 6/3 wire for future use!
I’d use your volt meter to test across each hot lead and the neutral to see if you get 110-120 volts. If not, you could have an open neutral - meaning it’s not connected inside the panel.
Of course, there’s no guarantee that a good neutral will fix your issue though.
@@handydadtv to update: I opened up the box and pulled the white wire (assuming it’s a neutral) and tested the charging unit again. It powered up fine and again displayed 238-240 volts. However it still caused an error when connected to my Tesla.
Why is the White Common wired into the 6-50?
It’s not common
I followed after hearing you're my virtual dad on the cloud
Thanks for subscribing! Welcome to the family!
Here in the great south land we pay about $.30 part kWh. That means that you’ll pay about $20 to replenish your battery
This cost is never publicised, and it’s a fiction that it costs nought. For this reason the motel is never going to let you use $20 of electricity for free, anymore than they will give you $20 to buy petrol on your journey.
Stavros
In the past two years, I’ve only stayed at hotels that have free charging.
It may not be that way forever, but it is now.
One comment, the NEMA 14-50 will work at almost all RV parks, so road trips cause less range anxiety.
Yes indeed
I installed the standard NEMA 6-50 and am so grateful I didn’t fall for the NEMA 14-50 scam like the uninformed masses.
You’re smart
It's not a scam, it's simply a more flexible solution that costs a bit more.
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 You should install SIX unnecessary conductors for EVEN MORE “flexibility” and cost!!! #GENIUS
So the 14-50 is useless then for Tesla’s ?
Not useless, just overkill. Still, it is most popular with aftermarket level 2 chargers.
Not all heros wear capes.
Thanks 😊
I learned I ran way too big of a ground wire to my 6-50 receptacle, oh well I guess I can tape it white and only need to run an adequate sized ground wire to upgrade to a 14-50
If you did that, how would you ground the 14-50?
@@handydadtv with that additional "adequate sized" ground wire rather than a 6 gauge.
Oh, you’d run a new wire. Gotcha.
@@handydadtv Yeah I ran a 6 gauge insulated green wire for the ground prong. Facepalm. Could just tape it white, its my neutral now, and put in a bare (10 gauge I think?) ground wire to use for grounding a 14-50. I think technically I can ground the plug to the metal case since it has continuous metal conduit all the way back to the panel. I think the Code allows for that too, but I'd probably still run a bare ground wire to the ground bus.
I’m no expert on code with conduit but I think you need a bespoke ground.
You can unplug the 14-50 and get 120v out of it. That’s the main benefit of using it.
For EV charging, the main benefit is its popularity.
If the cable installation is simple (doesn't require extensive drywall/trim/painting repairs) 6-50 will handle your EV charging needs for years to come. If the cable installation DOES require a lot of wall/structure retrofit and repair, I'd future proof the installation and add the 14-50 instead. The additional neutral may come in handy if future EV wall connectors start adding computer interfaces, timers, switches, WiFi/Bluetooth features that use a 110v supply. Might you someday want to put a clothes dryer in this area? These require a neutral because the timer/motors use 110v. Are there appliances in the future that will need that neutral? I don't know! But I do know that having to call out an electrician again in the future will erase all the money you saved today by opting for the less expensive option. Throwing an empty run of conduit is usually a good idea too in case you need to run data/coax/quantum dilithium hyperxingual opticrons someday. 😆
Good advice 👍🏻
I wonder why the UK power plugs have the earth is facing up
Probably the same reason you drive on the left. Let me know if you find out why.
sir your getting a good amazon commission as a affiliate and or seller and affiliate 😉😉
Just an affiliate. It’s a nice side gig but I can’t quit my day job.
I charge on a 10-30
Nothing wrong with that. People always want the fastest, but it doesn’t matter as long as your overnight charge rate covers your daily commute.
You have the 6-50 wired one hot and neutral that gives 120V. Should be two hots, red and black, and ground like the 14-50 looks, 6-50 doesn't use neutral wire. If it did work in your install, you aren't standards for wire colors like on the 14-50. Kids don't try this at home.
Sorry but you’re incorrect. I wired the 6-50 with two hots. The only improvement I could have done is wrap the white wire with black tape to indicate it’s a hot.
2 wire cable is very commonly used in homes for 240 volt circuits that don't use a neutral, electric water heaters, central air conditioner and heat pump, and baseboard heaters are among the most common examples. In these cases, the white is being used as the secondary hot and should be marked as such, with a piece of black or red tape or permanent marker at the panel, and where it connects to the receptacle or appliance, as well as in the junction box if the cable was spliced for any reason.
Your Tesla came with an EVSE, not a “charger”
Yes I’m aware. But that’s what people call them. Thanks.
Most non-Tesla chargers dictate the outlet. It's absurd to pay $100 for a receptacle. That very same outlet (Hubbell NEMA 14-50) on Amazon right now is about $15.
That absolutely must be a fake.
@@handydadtv Is not fake but is not the one he needs to get. Hubbell has a RESIDENTIAL line called TRADE SELECT. This is not the one you recommend in your videos. The tradeSelect is a step up the Leviton. The part number is RR450F. It is a tad better, still Hubbell, still quality but intended for residential use. That being said, EV is a residential activity but not traditionally "residential" since the intent is really to mean OVEN/RANGE/STOVE. The blades are full length so that is better and may help not heat up with constant amperage, but they are silver, not copper/brass, and the reason is that you can use both copper and aluminum wires since some homes still have aluminum. It is actually stamped (AL-CU). Yet, all that being said, it is the INDUSTRIAL HUBELL 14-50 that you show in your videos the one I would use for EV.
Trade Select is barely known but is out there, those of us who have been around use it since it is better than the Chinese cheap ones from big box stores. I actually thought if commenting on this since you limited yourself to say "buy Hubbell" and some folks will not know any better. They are good and better than Home Depot Leviton and I would even say the Eaton cheap versions, but not the one you mean, so important to stress what people need to connect are INDUSTRIAL GRADE outlets. I would tell people "get an Industrial grade outlet, I would recommend Hubbell or Bryant as the top of the line and quality, but the industrial version." Key is INDUSTRIAL GRADE, not brand. The $15 one which is now $24 is technically and perfectly called a NEMA14-50 Hubbel outlet", it has all the right to be called that because it is, but is the tradeSELECT residential Hubbell line and not Industrial.
I actually looked it up in Amazon in order to give you a link so you can peruse it and see it is a real Hubbell one, but check the description where it reads SELECT. www.amazon.com/dp/B008KMTBUA?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
@@handydadtv Oh, one thing, please tape a red tip on the white one so that the inspector is happy and approves it. That is no longer a neutral and the ONLY one allowed to be white is the neutral. It is code to identify hot wires. I would also as tradition always use the right connector for the red, not important but is a good habit in case you go with series or parallel connections downstream...like a second outlet on the other side of the wall (outside). Love your videos, keep them coming.
Thanks
@@handydadtv 14-50 outlets are much more common than 6-50s. Every house built in the past several decades has at least one 14-50 for stoves. Not every house has a welder. Lower cost for such commodity items is what demand causes. As long as the plug has a UL or CSA sticker, it'll be fine. It might not be built well enough to withstand more than a few plug/unplug cycles, but how often do you unplug your stove?
Doesn't look like that's going to meet code. But it'll work
Either one meets code
Either the 6 series or the 14 series will meet current code for a 240V circuit, assuming an appropriate breaker and wire size is used. Installing a 10 series, or leaving the neutral or ground off a 14 series will not. Depending on what revision of the code is in use in your area, you might require a GFCI circuit breaker (new requirement with the 2020 code)
@@kc8ufv Check the code or ask an inspector for the fine details. There may be an exemption specific to EV/RV/welder outlets. If you think the plugs/outlets are expensive, 50A dual GFCI breakers will blow your socks off.
Wiring on your 6-50 is incorrect. If you are wiring a 240V circuit you must use L1 and L2 not L1 and N.
The white wire was L2. I added black tape.
@@handydadtv The NEC doesn't permit the use of white or gray conductor insulation for ungrounded conductors in a raceway, even if the conductors are permanently re-identified.
I would not even think about using a 3 wire plug.. As that ground is needed back to the Service panel.. In case of a short to ground.
And the reason the Tesla does not use it. It's a builtin double insulated Charger..So the ground is bonded to the Neutral inside. To cover over current protection.. I seen inspectors try and cut a cord on my hammer drill,. As it had no ground prong. I told him you will be paying $2,000.00 to replace it if you do. As it says right on it Double Insulated..
Thanks
Double insulated does NOT mean the ground is connected to the neutral inside the device. In a proper circuit, neutral is ONLY connected to ground inside the service panel. Extra interconnects between neutral and ground are only needed in certain rare conditions having to do with sub-panels in outbuildings. "Double-insulated" means that the metal parts of the device is covered in another layer of insulation.
A 3 wire 6-50 has two hots and a ground. It doesn't have a neutral.. What makes you think it's not grounded?
@@fromagefrizzbizz9377 To get Double insulated rating. The Ground has to be bonded to the Neutral inside the devise..Hence the reason for no Ground Prong.
Read the damn instructions. As a short to ground inside the devise needs a path back to the Source. The source being the Transformer feeding the Service panel..
Now shut the hell up. I been at it for 40 years. And even Mike Holt understands it.
No need to get pissy. Just a healthy debate.
I researched the topic and haven’t found anything about using neutral as a ground in a double insulated appliance. Do you have any supporting reference?
@@handydadtv Maybe read the damn NFPA70 and the NEC code book. As they print books for a reason...Then call the company that made it. As the Chinese sell some suspect tools. That have come back to kill people.
And if you mean research done on some search engine. I suggest you ask the schools for refund. Then punch your teachers in the Stomach. As they failed to educate you.
Why companies have started giving their own test. When someone applies for a job. As they seen some shady shit done by so called licensed electricians. That ends up costing them 3x more too go back and fix. In some cases it killed another Electrician!
Tesla RV>>>>>????????.......
Someday maybe
And dont hook thease chargers up to anything less than 200 amp service...
Based on what?
@@handydadtv He's probably right, for most household situations. AC, water heater, lighting, and the car might put you over 18000VA, right on the edge of a 100A service continuous. You can forget about auxiliary electric heat, or turning on the dryer, much less the oven while the car is charging. If the main panel is MLO it might give a little more leeway but that's bad practice for obvious reasons...
The hubbel outlets you used are very very overpriced, Leviton has the 14-50 for $5
The Leviton isn’t an industrial outlet suited for EV charging.