Caller Gets EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE After Asking for Help with Doubts | Matt Dillahunty & Arden Hart
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- Original Episode Here: www.youtube.co...
Chris, a theist from California, calls to discuss his doubts about original sin, feeling it's unfair to hold people accountable for others' actions. Hosts Matt and Arden agree, criticizing the concept as immoral. The conversation shifts to the Garden of Eden story, with Matt questioning its literal interpretation. When pressed for evidence, Chris struggles to provide direct answers, leading to increasing frustration. The hosts repeatedly ask Chris to clarify his position, but he becomes defensive. The call ends with Chris unable to explain how advocating for learning right from wrong supports his belief in God, given the biblical narrative. The hosts express disappointment in Chris's inability to engage with the core issues of his belief system.
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How can grown adults not see the problem with a story that is based upon nothing more substantial than infantile magic claims, and includes a talking snake?
Indoctrination and wilful ignorance
They weren't grown adults the last time they questioned it. And they probably got punished harshly by all adults around them when they did.
Adults don't become theists very often, it's very rare. If it was illegal to command children to believe religions they would vanish
@@d_camara This is why theists indoctrinate kids. If they are older, they will realise that the religious claim is just plain stupid.
I’ve never understood it. It never made any sense to me, even as a child, so I don’t get how so many people can believe something, with such flimsy evidence, so firmly.
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 It is astonishing to find that people actually believe the biblical claim, because it is utterly ridiculous.
Religion is inherently like an abusive relationship, because every bad thing that happens to you is god’s plan and you have to justify to yourself.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Nay my brother, for Allah hath given thee His light and guidance through the voice of our prophet Muhammad, and through him have we found salvation. Why hast thou rejected Him? Why dost thou still hold hatred in thine soul for the true way? Only by accepting the truth of Allah into thine heart can thou be freed from the burden of sin and accepted into His kingdom. بسم الله الرحمن الرهم
I’m so glad we had that talk.
Not all religion fits that definition. Try to be more precise and intellectually honest.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 If you mean the god fantasy of the bible, it is a cruel, heinous, vile, repugnant atrocity.
@@gluehfunke1547 Oh, no...Another one!
H: “What question did I just ask?”
C: “Hum, basically what I’m trying to say..”
H: “What question did I just ask?”
C: “I see where you’re coming from.”
H: “I’m coming from my mother’s womb but that’s irrelevant. What did I just ask you?”
C: “I mean, this is kind of like, you know, literally, and I don’t mean to be, like, disrespectful, like, from my point of view, what you’re, like, saying, is that..”
H: Producers, please bring me an Alka-Seltzer.
Born sick and commanded to heal yourself.
Interesting,
Can we heal ourselves and others ?
@@aemiliadelroba4022Depends what you're healing yourself and others from. But yes you can heal yourself and others.
George Carlin nais :)
Born into original sin...so this is gods doing
At least they gave me something I didn't have to steal or have to win.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 cool story bro. Now demonstrate that your god or heaven exists.
blah,blah,blah waffle, waffle,waffle just more christian b.s
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 .
I would rather be consumed than spend eternity being bored into madness in your supposed Heaven.
6:09 Sure punishing all the innocent descendants that had nothing to do with eating a magic fruit is a great example of everyone being held accountable for their own actions!!! Great example there caller
I was an eight year old in religion class unconvinced that religion was anything more than a con. A priest walked in and proceeded to explain original sin. I was instantly angered. Did he think we were idiots. We did nothing wrong. Yet we had sin because some idiot god gave the responsibility of the future of mankind to two teenagers. That was the death of religion for me. And it also proved to me that the rationality of adults should always been questioned.
8 must be a special age for discovering reason. I couldn't make sense of original sin, and thought is sounded completely unjust. It was explained that since I wasn't perfect, I wouldn't be punished for their sins, but for my own. The punishment sounded crazy harsh, but it was true, I wasn't perfect. They got me partway there.
But around the same time I learned about Issac and Abraham. I didn't know the phrase emotional abuse then, but I could tell that was messed up and pointless. And, since I knew all about how God could read minds, why did they need to go through that to prove anything? He would have been putting them through that for kicks.
That was the end of "Jesus loves the little children", for me.
"when you unpack it and really break it down". What is there to unpack? Condemning anyone for something someone else did is complete bullshit in any situation. Especially when the original person didn't even do anything wrong.
Especially when the original person didn't even exist..
It's not supposed to be logical. It's just like the mobs protection racket, you are supposed to believe you are born already owing some unpaid and unpayable debt to god, so you must submit. Instead of "thatsa nice little store you got there, be a shame if something woulda happen to it", it's, "thatsa nice soul you got there....".
Religions trap you in fear of what if!!
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Well, at least you like yourself.
Putting that nonsense under every comment is useless. Go and preach in your church, thats where it belongs.
Exactly
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
I see that someone doesn't have the mental capacity to do anything more than copy and paste.
"Father, bless me for I have sinned, I did an original sin… I poked a badger with a spoon."
Eddie Suzy Izzard
The notion of original sin is the first instance of scapegoating in the biblical story book, but not the last. 🐐
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363And Jesus wept about your lame attempts to prostylitize.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Fascinating how you DISHONESTLY IGNORE every single example given to you that proves that gawd on the pages of the buybile is EVIL.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Explain how it is good or loving or moral to punish all people forever for the actions of 2 people.
The notion of original sin is to convince you that you are already born owing something to this god and so you must submit. IOW, psychological indoctrination, which in reality is no different than the mafia's protection racket, "Thatsa nice little soul you got there, it woulda be a shame if something woulda happen to it, eh?"
You confirmed his doubt. And when you confirmed his doubt he immediately went into crisis mode because one confirmed doubt means all his other doubts could be confirmed.
We got to watch this guy's worldview collapse in real time... I'm not at all surprised that he went to pieces
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Interesting claim. Got evidence for it?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 On the other hand, the Abundance will willingly and gleefully hand out THEIR blessings because THEY cannot stand to see hurt and suffering. Said blessings run from bountiful crops to full on immortality. True, they also come with some horrendous monkeys paws, but thats mostly because Yaoshi is a fucking moron.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Is Jesus fully God? And if he is, were sinners not in the presence of God during Jesus' life?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Nothing but gobbledegook.
Most of the callers seem to share one particular trait - the ability to pack the maximum number of words into the minimum amount of thought. And they take so long to get to the point. "I mean, like, it seems to me that, all things considered, and if you keep an open mind, blah blah blah."
Here's a hint. In your head, start with the phrase "I want to tell you that..." and then bloody well say it.
I have a theory that it's because of hearing sermons every week in church, which tend to have long, meandering setups without ever reaching an evidence-backed conclusion. These callers come on the show and deliver sermons rather than arguments, because that's all they know how to do. When asked for evidence other than "the Bible tells me so," they are totally at a loss.
5:33 for the exact moment his brain reset
And then goes into the theist default of knocking the chess pieces over, strutting around like he won and pooping on the board.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
zzzzzzz
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 don’t threaten us
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363No thank you, I stopped believing in fairy tales after 5 yo., maybe one day you will grow up too.
Arden on this call was fricking awesome. She cut to the absolute core of the caller's problem and exposed it for what it was. Perfect call, the teamwork was strong.
I don't acknowledge the word sin or allow it to be used in any context around me. I hate the idea of original sin! Religion controlled and ruined the first 60 years of my life causing me to bow down to two narcissistic religious husbands. I was lucky to find Christopher hitchens online and that led me to The Line. Thank you for the truth and sanity and peace you bring to people who have been crushed by religion their entire lives!
❤
It's nice that you finally woke up. Sorry to hear that it took so long.
It's sickening that it's so normalized to believe in this nonsense your whole life while actually restricting yourself and suffering from it. If we weren't so used to it we would think theists are a bunch of crazy people. At least people with delusions get to be called schizophrenic but if you believe in a god then it's just faith.
@@elih6087 I agree completely. My parents would have been better people without religion. All the bad parts were shoved down their throat and they forced their purity culture view on me. I never totally believed religion but was made to believe I couldn't be a good person without it. After I left the last of my narcissistic, cruel husbands, I finally came completely to my senses and I hope others do as well!
Original sin is the first arrow in the quiver of those who would control us. No, wait, original sin is the bone wielded by the proto-human in the opening sequence of Kubrick's _2001_
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
I see you, liking your own comments because nobody respects you or your nonsense.
2001 is insanely BORING. Only Kubrick film I cannot watch. Maybe it was super cool at the time, but now it just drags...
@@DrinkWater713 Of course it's boring the 1000th time you've watched it. Honestly, I found long parts of it boring as well, but there were also some heavy-hitting dramatic parts too.
@@donnievance1942 Sure. It's a pacing problem. If feels like 3 movies mashed into one. The more visual story of the beginning, the "normal movie" of them dealing with the computer and whatever the hell that last part is supposed to be.
When did humans become "souls?" Was it when we were microbes or after we started swinging from trees?
That's my question. Like, where do these people think a soul would sit in the body? What is it made out of? What does it look like? These are things they prefer, not to think about, but to be told what to think by people they've deemed as leaders and authorities on the matter who are just as in the dark as everyone else
Where is the proof? Has anyone provided any sort of proof of a soul? No.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Lmao
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 The god who murdered the innocent first born in Egypt? The god that drowned a huge number of innocent babies and fetuses with a world wide flood? You mean that sinlessly perfect being?
Arden put him in his place.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm no.
Says who? @@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
That's was melodramatic of you...and unfortunately for you...unconvincing.
Try again, porcupine...
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Evidence? How do I know you are right and every other religion is wrong?
Why are so many of these folks inarticulate? It's a chore just listening to them try to think.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363LOL. You have a lot of silly supstitionist nonsense to spew, don't you?
If they COULD think, they would not be theists.
See this idiot right here.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363That has nothing to do with this guy's question, guess you also lack comprehension as well as being inarticulate.
@@briarelyse5136 I think he or she just wanted to get some preaching practice in on me.
“HISTORY WORKS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT”?
Why doesn’t this guy realize that is the huge flaw w/ faith and religion? It’s all special pleading that doesn’t line up w/ science, history, almost anything!
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 zzzzzzzzzzz
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 both reality and the Bible would disagree with your belief that God is sinlessly perfect. Did you not see the video at all? If you believe in 'Original sin' you cannot believe in a perfect God.
@AJPemberton I think they clicked on the video, paused it, and then copy-pasted the same like three comments until they got bored
Religious BELIEF creates willful stupidity. They just ignore logic and reason for the sake of that belief. Isn't that a definition of stupidity?
It is mainly because of indoctrination. It is traumatic to have those you trust introduce you to the horrors of religion. Especially at an early age. The reason people react like he did is because they are triggered. They literally re-experience the trauma in their mind and lose control of their emotions. This is the reason why the religious indoctrinate children at an early age. To traumatize them into lifelong adherents through unregulated emotional responses. Each time their faith is questioned they experience unregulated fear due to unresolved trauma.
Original sin is a sick way to control people through an imaginary friend. It is a fiction designed to cause low self esteem for a narcissitic relationship that can be used to manipulate its victims.
No one is born responsible for another person's wrongdoing, especially when that person did not know what they were doing and were not mentally capable to understand the basics of right and wrong.
Agreed. Claiming that they are is simply a way of locking people into a debt of guilt that must be repaid by each generation, a means of controlling behavior and encouraging obedience.
Original sin is such a crappy form of introducing someone to a terrible way of understanding right from wrong, or accountability / responsibility.
Anyone in existence ! would find it unjust if they received a debt that belonged to someone else.
It’s not just a weird lesson that makes no sense, but I struggle to comprehend how Normies in general don’t grasp the obviousness of this strange debT.
This alleged "Original Sin" was a concept created by the Cat'lick Church for the sole purpose of rounding up literally everyone for indoctrination. "You get a sin! You get a sin! EVERYONE gets a sin!" They literally invented the problem which only they can cure.
The really weird part is that Jesus supposedly died for our sins. If Jesus died for our sins, then Original Sin was eradicated 2,000 years ago, before Christianity was ever even formalized. Why is anyone still talking about this?
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Interesting claims. Got any evidence for them?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Can you stop saying dumb shit and provide evidence ?
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 So you actually did just decide to spam an unsupported comment throughout this comment section. That's contemptible.
That was brutal
Everybody wants to see somebody really get their ass beat until they see somebody reeeeaaaaaally get their ass beat... And it doesn't really make a difference whether you're using knuckles or words.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Here you are again. You're a total Gary.
Nobody loves Gary.
@@RussianPrimeMinister He likes himself. So, one.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 And you even liked your own comment. Pitiful.
Chris: “we have a book” (the Bible) yet his type never knows one thing about other religions like Hinduism, which has older and bigger books…but the Christian book is special! Waaaaaaahhhh!!
I feel this guy phoned in to the wrong show.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 the god Yahweh allowed slavery, commanded genocide and rape. If there is a god as you described, it. Can't be the one in the bible
You give the impression of a person who, without a constant caretaker, would not be able to survive on their own.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
That sounds nonsensical from one end to the other. I mean, as completely imaginary scenarios go, you could hardly have put together something more ridiculous if you deliberately tried. Good fiction has to at least be plausible even when we know it's fiction. This account of your fails even that test.
But in any case, it's all imaginary, isn't it? There's nothing real about any of it, no evidence, no rational justification, no resemblance to how things work in the real world.
Original sin, and punishing the family of people who sin is literally what North Korea does to people who sin against the state.
I don’t know why Christian’s can’t see this
North Korea has doctrination called Juchea (incorrect spelling) which is based of the bible.
@@chrispbacon3042 seriously? That’s crazy
@@chrispbacon3042 the Bible also says that god selects the people in power. Maybe he could chose some better people for once????
Sadly so many theists have been terribly bullied into believing that learning the difference between right and wrong is somehow sinful. They've been conditioned into believing, under threat of everlasting punishment, that learning is bad therefore ignorance is good. The exact opposite to what is true.
And, once again, how could they have sinned before they understood what sin was?
@@donnievance1942 Yep! That's what makes the preaching of original sin such an evil trick for preachers and pastors to play on young, unsuspecting minds.
Great to see so many theists in the comments sputtering their propaganda and fallacies. It helps those on the fence realize how irrational religion is.
Chris : "...You know what I mean?..."
The world: Nope.
He opened the door to inquiry only to later close it, lock it, and barricade it up.😢
I liked the Freudian slip where the caller said Satan and his minions were cast out of Hell. 🤣
Way to call Chris out right at the end there, Arden. Well done, both of you.
Angels devils giants zombies talking donkies snakes mmmmm should make you question???
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Adonai calleth thee back to the fold of His chosen people, yet thou still followest on the path of lies of Yeshua the deceiver? The lord hath us foretold that His messiah shallt come not to abolish His Law, but to fulfill it. And so shallst thou thyself seperate from the lord.
There are over 4,000 religions in this world. One's odds of having been born into the true religion are incredibly low.
If eternal reward and punishment are the stakes, then everyone should be frantically searching for the truth! But strangely, no one does that.
Too me religious beliefs are insane.
Pretty embarrassing to admit that you believe the Adam & Eve story. Even more embarrassing that parents actually allow their kids to be taught this claptrap.
This is the first time I’ve seen Matt and Arden together on the show! You two are great together! Poor theist. He’s so close, if he wasn’t so brainwashed and terrified
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Hard pass, thanks
Still at it, huh? Every single comment so far, there you are copy-pasting. I'm guessing your god is your only friend, because you are clearly insufferable. Too bad for your family. I cannot imagine how awful it must be, being around a person like you.
"A thief (one of the things you list as making someone a sinner)... cannot be in the presence of God or he will be utterly consumed"
Now, the jesus you're talking about.. is this the same jesus that told his disciples to go into town and steal someone's donkey? Seems like there are some inconsistencies there you might want to reconcile.
@@noone3216 Oh, but remember? It’s never a sin if Daddy or Big Brother does it
The bible isn't just disgusting, it's badly written and so so BORING.
The fable of sin is just another way people try to control the way you live your only life. It's used to reinforce shame and fear to keep you oppressed and in the construct of religion.
What even more disturbing this monster maliciously put this bomb in the garden fully knowing the hurt it would cause. Out of nothing he created evil so could enjoy tormenting most of his family. Is not an army of angels created to constantly worship him enough. No way humanity should be made a scapegoat for his perverted malicious games constantly plays along with his hide n seek do s i say bully.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Why would i want to go to such a horrid place. Gave up bowing to bullies a long time ago and until god does the right thing and admits behaves like a monster gets no respect from me.
For the believer: You have a book of human stories passed down in oral tradition, stories that humans told and retold, stories that humans wrote and rewrote, stories that humans gathered and curated, stories that humans interpreted and translated, stories that humans replicated and perpetrated, stories that humans proselytized and endorsed AND in all this human activity where is there ANY activity other than human?
The concept of original sin is pure evil and completely negates the claim of a good and just God.
I've heard this guy several times, he is very dishonest and extremely close minded
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
Just like every other theist.
Hmm, I'm angry at myself for not thinking of morality being a sin because the forbidden fruit contained that knowledge. This means morality is blasphemy.
8:21 I asked you what evidence you had...
This caller can't even complete a sentence.
11:05, (Matt) "Im going to take you off pause and you are going to say ""this is what you asked...and this is my answer...""." *long pause. In my head im like he's not going to do it. *caller proceed not to do it. LFMAO🤣
i love these two hosts together. Great teamwork on this.
"when you really unpack it and break it downy o just feel like, i don't know. it just doesn't make sense." you know you're in for a quality time when you hear something even close to this.
At the end, he yelled, "mysterious ways" and hung up.
I have started saying that god works in mythterious ways. 🤷🏼♀️
I have a close relation who argues like this. Whenever I bring a central point into focus and try to get a response on it or have it recognized, he deflects to some ancillary point. It's maddening. I think it reflects a deep and fundamental dishonesty. It reflects a consciousness that he can't address that point to his own advantage, so he, in a sense, changes the topic. I personally try to listen to a debate opponent's arguments fairly, try to understand them fully, and strive to be willing to concede when I'm wrong. Usually, the overall argument does not hinge on a single point, anyway, so conceding some specific point serves to direct the discussion into the most essential issues.
There are, unfortunately, many people who enter into arguments or discussions with an obstinate will to maintain any statement they initially make, rather than looking at the discussion as a way to get to the bottom of an issue. Maintaining every little point seems to be an emotionally fraught ego issue for them.
It’s like talking to a drug addict who can tell you all the ways being an addict is bad and all the ways quitting is good… but looks for the teeny tiny slither of a reason to keep using.
Original sin is the example that puts the lie to the claim of Jesus' sacrifice. If Jesus died to grant forgiveness for all our sins, we should no longer be suffering for original sin. Women should no longer suffer in childbirth and men should no longer toil the length of their days. Snakes should no longer crawl on their bellies. Since all of those punishments remain in effect, Jesus' sacrifice was incomplete.
If Arden was a robot, her name would be Ardon.
In fairness to the caller, fruit is delicious and very refreshing.
How do theists not see how insufferable they are? Do they not even bother to listen to each other? I watch these debates and it’s the exact same thing over and over and over again. If you e seen one debate you’ve seen them all. 1. Atheist asks a very simple question. 2. Theist twists themselves into a pretzel and begins a mental gymnastics performance deserving of a gold medal while trying their damndest not to answer the question while simultaneously creating a word salad of complete and total ignorance. Where is their god? Why doesn’t he give them the answers that would at least keep them from embarrassing themselves and him? It’s maddening.
original sin and other ancient hebrew concepts are tribalistic approaches to their understanding of life. they deserve no more reverence or belief that those of any other ancient tribal mythology. just because a roman emperor adopted a hebrew heresy as state religion and then spread by conquering it does not justify its status.
Original sin: Born with brown hair and not being allowed to eat ice cream because you're born with brown hair, until till you offer a human sacrifice to say sorry for being born with brown hair...would be less ridiculous, because ice cream actaully exists.
Let’s sum up original sin. I have two kids, and put lenses in their eyes so they can’t tell the difference between red and green.
Then I tell them the red mushrooms are poison, and the green mushroom are a groovy time.
They eat a red mushroom and discover it isn’t poison at all, in reality the red mushroom dissolves the lens so they can tell the difference.
Now I’ll punish their great grand children’s friends.
What’s the difference between me and the Christian god from the storybook?
(I’m comfortable ignoring the fact that I can’t see the future, so I don’t actually know the outcome whereas god can and does. Ignoring this is charitable to the good character).
you play strange games with kids .......
@@berth2647 they keep saying I’m made in god’s image, so… When in Rome?
Heaven couldn't have been that great if even many of the angels decided to rebel there. Even if Heaven somehow became better since then where every Christian seems to believe that it will be great there, the Heaven before that, which caused the angels to rebel, must have really sucked.
With people like this, I just ask them “how lame and weak do you think your god is, if you feel the need to lie about it?”
What is it with callers on this show never answering questions? Is it because only people like that are foolish enough to call in?
That was beyond embarrassing for Chris.
“Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.” -- Hunter S. Thompson. (Do you think he was referring to the bible?)
I see Arden I click. She makes me smile.
I have been saying for awhile that the garden of Eden was a trap.
Hello Arden and Matt!
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 It makes me so mad that TH-cam took away spamming from the report categories.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
This statement is meaningless. Really, I am not being the least bit hostile. I simply do not think that there is a supernatural force or person at all. And I have looked, even prayed for this. The answer for so many of us is silence. So many Christian and religious though history have been proven false. The Black Death turned out to be a highly contagious bacteria, not a punishment, nor, demonic. This happened with spontaneous generation of animals, persons with schizophrenia having biopsychosocial disorders and not demonic possession. There came a point in my life where evidence overwhelmed any belief I was told to be true when I was a child.
Tell Chris to look up Actus Reus and you will get a good defence for the BS that is Original Sin. Also remember, it was included to assist those in power to impose law by definition i.e., the trick by deception.
Callers: please read a Logic 101 book or complete a class in how to argue logically and critically think before you call in. You know Matt’s going to demand logical, cogent answers. Arden will also cut to the heart of the matter and call you out if you’re just going to special plead. ❤ to Arden and Matt
Bravo Arden..!
For your ideas about the "original sin," you’ve got ten out ten from me. Well done…
This caller is so incoherent!
They all are.
Discussing "original sin" is like discussing the temperature of the "fiery lake" ! A worthless and time consuming process. Too bad if the caller is having some angst about his religion, - that's his problem.
Oof…perfect example of someone claiming something they had no good reason to believe in and then doubling down on it. That was really sad for the caller.
Chris could barely speak full intelligible sentences, let alone mount a valid argument.
According to the myth, the "Original sin" did not occur in the garden of Eden, it took place in heaven when satan and his followers rebelled against "God".
I don’t know why ppl with absolutely no interest in intelligent thought calls this man to piss him off …
I would LOVE to troll Matt, but I don't think I could do it without laughing
Original Sin is the most psychologically harmful concept ever thought up. 😜😜🍸🤪🤪🤪
As often as Christians claim that the Bible says that satan was an angel who was cast out of heaven for pride, none of that is in the Bible. There’s a future prophecy in revelation that the dragon (likely referring to the devil) will wage war in the heavens and be thrown down to earth, but that’s as close as you can get.
To give free will is to give permission to do bad things. The law doesn't give free will to commit a crime. It can't prevent me, but they're not encouraging it or giving me permission.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363Interesting claim. Got evidence for it?
Killing innocent first born Egytians for the sins of their king is about the most disgusting amoral behavior one can think of. God is not perfect nor sinless. @thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363
Do you have a job? A family? A life? You strike me as someone incapable of taking care of themselves, left in their room at a computer because your exhausted and exasperated family don't want to keep dealing with your nonsense.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363I proved that you are just here to lie in a previous conversation, why are you back? Is this a kink thing?
makes me so sad to think about all the people who have been made to feel guilty or like they are worth less because of a story in an old OBVIOUSLY FICTIONAL story... how many people feel guilty for Peter Pan being "mean" to Captain Hook?
Do all theist suffer from cognitive dissonance or are they just dishonest
I think its a combination of both of those, and then just indoctrination.
Is he doing it on purpose!? How is someone so bad at communicating!? Follow the basic thread of context and logic!
Interesting, but
Why should I care about you ?
Why should God care about things ?
It is their own doing , humans are responsible for what they do .
😊
Dude, xians think that the fact we base our count of years on when jesus was supposedly born means xianity is relevant. Yeah, it is that dumb.
So wait, we mere mortals, with limited understanding, lacking omnipotence and omniscience, know better to apportion the punishment to the crime?
Who among us would take a child who stole a fruit, walk them to the stove and burn their hand? For a minute?, an hour?, an eternity? Who would then punish their children, grandchildren at infinity for that trespass?
And they call that a loving god?
"Religious conditioning". Its the central issue to the confusion that is obvious in most Christians when challenged by pretty simple concepts. The religion leaves them nowhere to go. So ducking and weaving is inevitable. Priests, on the other hand, will give you an equally evasive diatribe instead using, symbolism, juxtaposition and allegorical justifications while fundamentalists will just hole up with literal reference to the Bible as the answer. The Bible says so thus it must is true. Creates a whole new meme really. Instead of "the God of the gaps" it should be "the God of the dodge".
Please stop the Jimmy Snow "comedy" bits at the end of these videos.
They’ve kinda grown on me 😂
Why does God exist?
To give us some kind of "sin trees" apparently.
God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 There's a special place in hell for people who up-vote their own comments. 😛
@@KarlBunker And talking in theaters.
*Why do people THINK that this god or that god...but not THAT god...exists?
The original sin is utter nonsense since there never was a first man and a first woman and so the crux of christianity is debunked! We are not "born in sin" and we don't have to be "saved" from anything and certainly not by the death of a man during the bronze age!
Damn. I was worried that would be a guy😢
SANTA! can I make a wish list for Christmas?
Chris is fishing for gotchas in an empty puddle XD
Bingo. Caller was disingenuous and tacitly admitted as much by noting he’d called in before, maybe Matt recognized his voice? He doesn’t have “doubts” about original sin.
As with all plans, his didn’t survive the first encounter with the enemy.
Group and generational punishment is considered a war crime, but it's supposedly just fine when sky daddy does it.
Original sin is like if you were told that your student debt was already in the tens of thousands of dollars before your first day of class. With original sin you are born in the church's debt and you must spend all of your life begging the church for debt relief. And try as you might, you can't quite get out of debt (much like student debt).
It's also interesting that he didn't simply back down.
When Matt asks him how what he said was an argument for God, then he could have easily backed out of this. Without even losing face, honestly.
As he could just have said "oh, sorry, I must have misunderstood what you said. No, you're right, what you said is not an advocacy for God. Apologies".
I find this deeply interesting because why on Earth choose to die on that hill, of all hills? It's completely meaningless.
At least, up until that point, the caller didn't give off any vibes whatsoever of being a "gotcha" theist, who just wants to prove that atheists really do believe in God but are denying it "because they want to sin". Now, that type of caller might persist, as they think they've just got Matt in a "gotcha" to acknowledge their god.
And I also don't think that was his intention whatsoever, because if such a caller got what they thought was an admission of their god from Matt, they'd be bold and confident. Arrogant. They'd believe that they finally extracted the confession - so they'd be on cloud 9 for having done the impossible.
But, no, this caller completely collapsed. Actually mumbling incoherently at points. Suffering a "brain reset".
It's a very strange interaction. I think I'm with Arden on this one, to actually kind of pity him, in that he was coherent and seemed reasonable, then hit this stumbling block, which seemingly triggered his indoctrination. Like in Zoolander, he heard "Relax" and the dormant sleeper agent was released ("must kill the Malaysian Prime Minister").
It's the most bizarre hill to choose to die on. What would it mean, even if what Matt said did speak for God in some way? It doesn't. But if it did, then it would just be "even a stopped clock gets it right twice a day". And, of course, what Matt personally believes has nothing to do with the truth of the matter anyway - he could convert to an evangelical preacher tomorrow and it wouldn't invalidate any of the arguments he's made on this show beforehand.
"Nullius in verba". Who cares what Matt does or doesn't think anyway? It doesn't make God magically appear.
Why did he not just back down? All it needed was a "sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying". Which, you know, is always a possibility in any conversation we have with other people. It's not implausible, nor something a reasonable person would deny you. You made an honest mistake, which we all do.
Why persist? There was no reasonable advantage to doing so. None whatsoever.
I have a brother who argues like that. If he makes a statement in the course of an argument, he'll never concede that it was a bad point and proceed from there, even though the point wasn't essential to his overall argument. He'll deflect and evade and maneuver every possible way even when the best way for him to make his case is just to give up that one bad point and proceed with his stronger ones. I don't get it either.
However, this is a trait I've observed in a number of people who smoke too much weed, as my brother does. They become ultra-argumentative and seem unable to track and distinguish between what is essential to the discussion and what is only ancillary. This is a pattern I've observed so many times with so many people that I call it weed-head in my mind. It's like they're in some kind of mental tunnel where they can only see the one item that's under contention at that moment. And they're absolutely intransigent about giving that one item up no matter how indefensible it is.
This seems to be a feature of people who are stoned at the moment and a chronic feature of people who smoke a lot, even when they're not stoned at the moment. I'm not a marijuana puritan. I've smoked a fair bit in my time, but this observation tends to make me think that weed can have some persistent long-term negative effects.
I realize that my reply digresses from what you were posting about, but perhaps you'll find it interesting anyway. I'm not really suggesting that the caller Chris was "under the influence." I'm sure there are plenty of people who have this mental characteristic naturally, all on their own. But he sounded so much like my brother that I had to draw the parallel.
The caller was a dishonest interlocutor. He’s called before and firmly-if not competently-advocated for a theist position. He was looking for a gotcha, thought he had it, but Matt took him off script by asking how it was a gotcha. The caller couldn’t answer, obviously.
you know its a recent video cause matt has a beard
In heaven no unclean person is allowed in, you are unclean if you have sinned just once like lying, stealing, sexual immorality, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, evil thoughts etc Jesus (God manifest in the flesh) can put his sinless righteousness on you since He died on the cross, rose from the dead so REPENT AND BELIEVE IN HIM TODAY.
@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Yeah. When someone mentions a beard, the first thing I want to talk about is the silliest superstitious nonsense I can invent.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 what is the mechanism by which being tortured and killed enables one person to put his sinless righteousness on another person and why do you think he did not have that ability before being tortured and killed?
@@bevwinn1369stop trying. He is only trolling his
bs under nearly every comment here and never answered any question for him. A typical Christian coward.
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 hahahhaha hilarious
"Original sin" = Original crime.
Answer the question