Thanks a lot for sharing your adventure! If I may give you a wood working advice (too late, I know..): it is a good idea to dampen the wood a bit using a wet cloth, wait for it to dry then start the sanding process. The moisture bring the wood fibers out. Otherwise the fibers will pop once you put the first clear coat layer, and you will have to go through the complete sanding process again. This is specially true when you use water base clear coat. Oil base ones are less problematic in that sense.
Hey Steve, great progress! Since you're doing a whitewood without any artwork, I can understand the concern about using truly clear epoxy since it will be visible. But for your final playfield with artwork, it shouldn't be a concern. If you do your artwork correctly, it will extend over the edges of each insert by a few millimeters - usually with a black border but not always - and that will effectively hide the epoxy color. I agree with your assessment that next time you'll make the insert fit a little tighter, that seemed a touch loose. But the epoxy works great as a gap filler so in the end it's all good. Also, your pill insert is super tiny and may not light up well. An alternative is to use a larger insert and simply reduce the lit area to a pill shape via artwork overlay, blocking the light. If you do this, you just have to make sure you use sufficient color to block light from around the pill shape, since if you do your colors light enough you can see light bleed through them. This technique gives you tons of freedom to draw organic shapes on top of boring old rectangle inserts, for instance, so have fun when you get to your artwork and don't feel restricted to your chosen insert shapes. I noticed in the recent Pulp Fiction pinball reveal that they fully covered inserts with artwork, and then back illuminate character faces through the artwork, pretty cool stuff. I'm sure that's been done many times before, but can't think of any specific examples beyond that one. It definitely gives a modern vibe. It sounds like your planer at your local maker space has issues, so you were wise to avoid it. But if you can get access to a larger planer (check local cabinet shops, they often rent access by the hour), you can make light work of this messy task. The cost could be worth it with more evenly flat end result, beyond just labor reduction. On a big planer like that, just make several light passes until you barely kiss the wood and you're done. On the other hand, you get a free arm workout from manual sanding, so it's not all bad.
Steve the amount of work you have put into these videos and the machine itself is unfathomable. I don't know how you do it but it inspires and motivates me with my projects. This has been a fantastic journey and I'm glad I been there from when it was just a scribble on a bit of paper. If you get your table done for October il send you your present in December ;)
Thanks for following along on the journey!! Lots to do still, but I feel confident it'll be ready by Expo - hoping to have it available for play by local peeps here in SLC by mid summer 🤞
@@thepinballroom That will be good to get some good feedback in. Has your wife ever had a play with it ? Would be interesting to hear what she thinks of it.
Great video like always Steven! The only TH-cam videos I like *before* I watch them :) A quick note on the epoxy: The epoxy Jamie recommended to me is the Gorilla 5-minute clear and that's what I used doing my final whitewood. Since it only has 5 minutes to work with (instead of 45 like the one you were using) you can only do about 5 or 6 inserts at a time before the epoxy really starts to solidify and become unworkable. But, more importantly, it absolutely will have a thermal reaction and try to force the inserts up out of their holes (especially if you have tighter holes like you mentioned you might do in your next cut). Because of this, my strategy became to 1) scuff the sides of the inserts with some sandpaper and wipe clean to give the epoxy a better surface to grip 2) mix a small amount of epoxy with a toothpick on some wax paper 3) "paint" the epoxy on the sides of the insert using a disposable paintbrush (I bought a 100 pack of them) 4) put the inserts in and wipe off any excess that pops out with a wet paper towel 5) clamp the insert into place using two FLAT wood or plastic blocks (one above the playfield and one below) with a piece of wax paper between the block on the topside and the playfield/insert using deep throat C-clamps 6) let those set up for 4 hours 7) repeat (using a new paintbrush and toothpick) until all the inserts are done. This strategy resulted in me having no inserts above the playfield and I didn't even need to sand before clear. And with the sanding you just have to be so careful because the veneer layers are so thin--it's easy to blast through them (which is another reason I think orbital sanders are generally frowned upon).
Super helpful, thank you! Yeah I haven't tried the gorilla clear yet, so this is all super helpful. I'll have to do another video talking about that epoxy specifically then 😕
I haven't used one personally, but from everything I've seen from my ventures into woodworking, planers sort of cup the beginning and ends of whatever is put through them, so one way to prevent that is to put whatever it is you are planing on a larger sled that will hold it steady. Obviously that's probably really irritating to try to do for something as large as a playfield, but if you ever try anything else with it, that might be something to keep in mind!
I found that gorilla’s clear construction adhesive also works great for white wood assembly. The cartridge is 9oz (I believe don’t quote me), and you can load it into a caulking gun. For me it was a better value because it can be had for about $15 vs $6 a piece for the little expoxy syringes
Everyone has opinions, so allow me to pontificate! 😂 1. Vid did a in depth guide to playfield restoration on Pinside. It covers inserts, clearing, etc. if you haven’t, it’s a good read. There are key post pointers at the beginning. 2. Check into 3M plastic primer for the inserts. 3. Don’t forget to sand the edges before you glue them in. 4. You mentioned not gluing all the way around the inserts. If there are any voids or gaps between the insert and wood, or something not sealed with glue, the clear or paint will sink in and you’ll have a void sunken into your top coats you won’t be able to get out, wax will get into, and it’ll stand out. At least seal around the bottom edge after you’ve glued it in with more epoxy. D. Look into acid brushes from harbor freight for applying the glue. E. If you have dried epoxy on the wood or anywhere, the paint or clear won’t stick to it. F. I did a series of videos last year on clear coating with 2PAC and inserts and stuff last year. Might be helpful, maybe not. 🤷♂️ it’s not hard once you have the eq. Just be super patient. And let the thing cure for like 2 months. G. Wood glue. 🙄🤦♂️
Great videos! And thank you for reminding me about Vid's awesome guides! I've spent the morning re-reading pages of it since it's been years since I came across them! So much valuable information he has shared over the years!!
I'm no expert with sanding, but I imagine there's something to be said about detail sanding - i.e. using a dremel tool and just putting a small detail sander on it. Why? Because then you're sanding the edges and not the plastic itself. Maybe it's more work than you'd want to be responble for, and maybe it'd just end up making too many high spots? But it's an idea worth looking into.
nice job Steve. congratulations. I was thinking of cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) to glue my inserts. I used it a few years ago to stick a bone insert on my homebrew guitar and it doesn't move and it's easier to put in place. What do you think about this glue?
My current goal is to have it ready to play at the Chicago gaming expo in October. I'm hoping it can be complete other than perhaps not all the coding done - I'm not a coder so not sure how long that will take me 🤷
Building your own machine isn't cheap, but you don't have to buy everything at once, you can spread out the cost over time as you build it. I've spent about $5000 on parts si far, probably another $1500-2000 on different tools and supplies along the way
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W2D2 | Fall | เครื่องร้อน พร้อมลุย](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JO2_bLow_1Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Wish there were more channels like yours.
Thanks a lot for sharing your adventure! If I may give you a wood working advice (too late, I know..): it is a good idea to dampen the wood a bit using a wet cloth, wait for it to dry then start the sanding process. The moisture bring the wood fibers out. Otherwise the fibers will pop once you put the first clear coat layer, and you will have to go through the complete sanding process again. This is specially true when you use water base clear coat. Oil base ones are less problematic in that sense.
Hey Steve, great progress! Since you're doing a whitewood without any artwork, I can understand the concern about using truly clear epoxy since it will be visible. But for your final playfield with artwork, it shouldn't be a concern. If you do your artwork correctly, it will extend over the edges of each insert by a few millimeters - usually with a black border but not always - and that will effectively hide the epoxy color. I agree with your assessment that next time you'll make the insert fit a little tighter, that seemed a touch loose. But the epoxy works great as a gap filler so in the end it's all good.
Also, your pill insert is super tiny and may not light up well. An alternative is to use a larger insert and simply reduce the lit area to a pill shape via artwork overlay, blocking the light. If you do this, you just have to make sure you use sufficient color to block light from around the pill shape, since if you do your colors light enough you can see light bleed through them. This technique gives you tons of freedom to draw organic shapes on top of boring old rectangle inserts, for instance, so have fun when you get to your artwork and don't feel restricted to your chosen insert shapes.
I noticed in the recent Pulp Fiction pinball reveal that they fully covered inserts with artwork, and then back illuminate character faces through the artwork, pretty cool stuff. I'm sure that's been done many times before, but can't think of any specific examples beyond that one. It definitely gives a modern vibe.
It sounds like your planer at your local maker space has issues, so you were wise to avoid it. But if you can get access to a larger planer (check local cabinet shops, they often rent access by the hour), you can make light work of this messy task. The cost could be worth it with more evenly flat end result, beyond just labor reduction. On a big planer like that, just make several light passes until you barely kiss the wood and you're done. On the other hand, you get a free arm workout from manual sanding, so it's not all bad.
Steve the amount of work you have put into these videos and the machine itself is unfathomable.
I don't know how you do it but it inspires and motivates me with my projects. This has been a fantastic journey and I'm glad I been there from when it was just a scribble on a bit of paper. If you get your table done for October il send you your present in December ;)
Thanks for following along on the journey!! Lots to do still, but I feel confident it'll be ready by Expo - hoping to have it available for play by local peeps here in SLC by mid summer 🤞
@@thepinballroom That will be good to get some good feedback in. Has your wife ever had a play with it ? Would be interesting to hear what she thinks of it.
@@alexhetherington8028 not really yet, no one has but me hardly at this point.... 😬
Great video like always Steven! The only TH-cam videos I like *before* I watch them :)
A quick note on the epoxy: The epoxy Jamie recommended to me is the Gorilla 5-minute clear and that's what I used doing my final whitewood. Since it only has 5 minutes to work with (instead of 45 like the one you were using) you can only do about 5 or 6 inserts at a time before the epoxy really starts to solidify and become unworkable. But, more importantly, it absolutely will have a thermal reaction and try to force the inserts up out of their holes (especially if you have tighter holes like you mentioned you might do in your next cut). Because of this, my strategy became to 1) scuff the sides of the inserts with some sandpaper and wipe clean to give the epoxy a better surface to grip 2) mix a small amount of epoxy with a toothpick on some wax paper 3) "paint" the epoxy on the sides of the insert using a disposable paintbrush (I bought a 100 pack of them) 4) put the inserts in and wipe off any excess that pops out with a wet paper towel 5) clamp the insert into place using two FLAT wood or plastic blocks (one above the playfield and one below) with a piece of wax paper between the block on the topside and the playfield/insert using deep throat C-clamps 6) let those set up for 4 hours 7) repeat (using a new paintbrush and toothpick) until all the inserts are done. This strategy resulted in me having no inserts above the playfield and I didn't even need to sand before clear.
And with the sanding you just have to be so careful because the veneer layers are so thin--it's easy to blast through them (which is another reason I think orbital sanders are generally frowned upon).
Super helpful, thank you! Yeah I haven't tried the gorilla clear yet, so this is all super helpful. I'll have to do another video talking about that epoxy specifically then 😕
Great video, Steve! Now all we need is for winter to be over :D Looking forward to the next video! Great work all together!
Fab stuff, Steve. Won't be long before you are programming a light show (or three).
Yes!! That's coming super quick and I can't wait!!
@@thepinballroom wonder if you could use the AI to help program
@@NeonNijahn yeah I've tried a bit, but I'm either not very good at AI prompts or it just isn't trained enough on MPF yet 😅
I haven't used one personally, but from everything I've seen from my ventures into woodworking, planers sort of cup the beginning and ends of whatever is put through them, so one way to prevent that is to put whatever it is you are planing on a larger sled that will hold it steady. Obviously that's probably really irritating to try to do for something as large as a playfield, but if you ever try anything else with it, that might be something to keep in mind!
I found that gorilla’s clear construction adhesive also works great for white wood assembly. The cartridge is 9oz (I believe don’t quote me), and you can load it into a caulking gun. For me it was a better value because it can be had for about $15 vs $6 a piece for the little expoxy syringes
Everyone has opinions, so allow me to pontificate! 😂
1. Vid did a in depth guide to playfield restoration on Pinside. It covers inserts, clearing, etc. if you haven’t, it’s a good read. There are key post pointers at the beginning.
2. Check into 3M plastic primer for the inserts.
3. Don’t forget to sand the edges before you glue them in.
4. You mentioned not gluing all the way around the inserts. If there are any voids or gaps between the insert and wood, or something not sealed with glue, the clear or paint will sink in and you’ll have a void sunken into your top coats you won’t be able to get out, wax will get into, and it’ll stand out. At least seal around the bottom edge after you’ve glued it in with more epoxy.
D. Look into acid brushes from harbor freight for applying the glue.
E. If you have dried epoxy on the wood or anywhere, the paint or clear won’t stick to it.
F. I did a series of videos last year on clear coating with 2PAC and inserts and stuff last year. Might be helpful, maybe not. 🤷♂️ it’s not hard once you have the eq. Just be super patient. And let the thing cure for like 2 months.
G. Wood glue. 🙄🤦♂️
One more. Apply the glue from the back. Not the front like you’re doing. It keeps it off the top better and let’s the insert push excess out the back.
This is awesome, thank you! Got a link to your videos? I'd love to watch them
Great videos! And thank you for reminding me about Vid's awesome guides! I've spent the morning re-reading pages of it since it's been years since I came across them! So much valuable information he has shared over the years!!
I'm no expert with sanding, but I imagine there's something to be said about detail sanding - i.e. using a dremel tool and just putting a small detail sander on it. Why? Because then you're sanding the edges and not the plastic itself. Maybe it's more work than you'd want to be responble for, and maybe it'd just end up making too many high spots? But it's an idea worth looking into.
nice job Steve. congratulations. I was thinking of cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) to glue my inserts. I used it a few years ago to stick a bone insert on my homebrew guitar and it doesn't move and it's easier to put in place. What do you think about this glue?
Yeah super glue works, but I believe it will also turn yellow after time
So much work across all the videos including making/editing the videos. How much longer you think till you might call it mostly done?
My current goal is to have it ready to play at the Chicago gaming expo in October. I'm hoping it can be complete other than perhaps not all the coding done - I'm not a coder so not sure how long that will take me 🤷
How much do things cost? Not everyone know has a cnc machine or friend or free materials?
Building your own machine isn't cheap, but you don't have to buy everything at once, you can spread out the cost over time as you build it. I've spent about $5000 on parts si far, probably another $1500-2000 on different tools and supplies along the way