The LOST AND FORGOTTEN TRIUMPH CARS! Prototypes, TR8s And INSANE TR cars!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video we explore some of the most incredible and mysterious Triumph cars ever made, from TR8s that ran in Le Mans and were sabotaged by the company who built them to incredibly mysterious cars such as the Lynx and Broadside. Triumph is one of those car companies that were unfortunately lost in the mid 80s.
I have credited where possible these works are transformative.
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I’ve owned a 1973 Spitfire 1500 and a 1972 TR6. Along with my 1967 RHD Mini Cooper 998 these were the most fun cars I’ve ever owned. I miss them all!
Me too - a 1967 Spitfire Mk III and a 1969 TR6 🙂
I became a member of the local Triumph car club back in 2017 when I bought my first Triumph - a 1979 2500S.
To sidestep slightly to address the unusual date of production my vehicle has, I will add that where I am - New Zealand - our local branch of BL (known as New Zealand Motor Corp or NZMC) continued production of the 2500 MkII past the time both BL Australia closed its doors in 1976 and BLMC (UK) ceased producing them in 1977. NZMC bought up all leftover kits for the cars from Aus and the UK and kept producing them because they sold so well in NZ - even our Prime Minister drove one! His car was a 1978 2500S auto in French blue. It still survives today and is a lovely car to drive.
The last BL plant to close in NZ was in Nelson (at the top of the south island) at the end of March 1979 and it was from this plant my S was completed from CKD on the 22nd of January 1979. My car uses one of the few leftover CKD bodies from the Aussie BL factory - the main spots of difference being that Australia had laws that stipulated that wipers for RHD cars should park on the left and that additional strengthening was to be incorporated in the doors. My car therefore has a pantograph wiper on the driver's side similar to the Stag's....something I really love about it.
Anyway, back to the original story.....
One of the members of the Triumph club was a bloke who had worked at the factory in the UK - most notably in the Works department in the later years there. He had also been part of the Triumph team's support crew for the infamous 1966 Monte Carlo. A totally fascinating bloke to talk to and I managed to get him to write several stories about his exploits while there for the club magazine that I edited at the time. In 2018, he started a reproduction of the Spitfire that he and the blokes in the department had built for Robert "Kas" Kastner to run in the 1965 Macau. It was finally approved for road use in 2021 and Kas was notably rapt to have seen the photos and a short video of the beast before his death that year. The original Macau was apparently undergoing restoration somewhere in the UK at the same time and they utilised the knowledge and specs able to be given to them by this now mid-70s gent, to try to restore it as it was back in the day as best they could, as the cowl behind the driver (among other things) had been modified extensively over time. I still recall hearing of his arguments with the Modification / Low Volume Certifiers about the changes to the original Spitfire body - they claimed they were unsafe and that this or that needed to be done so the cowl didn't come off or the chassis / panel strength additions he had added were inadequate. Well known in the club for having a very tolerant demeanour, this old fella then sat down with the certifiers (read: overpaid bureaucrats) and explained to them the theories of aerodynamics, where the original Spitfire chassis - an already robust unit - was let down at speed and increased horsepower and what he had done to correct this and why.....and they still knocked him back on trivialities. However, he built the original, so there was no way he was going to let idiots stop him building another, so eventually a compromise was struck......which is a bloody miracle with those people!....and the Macau replica now graces the streets of Auckland on fine days.
As I mentioned, I own one of the last Triumph 2500S produced in this country. She has a manual box with overdrive (M/OD), has covered 234,000km (145k miles) and is in 'survivor' condition, looking great from 6 feet away. At present, she is the fourth youngest still on the road, although initially there were 82 built after she was. The day she was first registered for the road was the 5th of April - six days after the plant had closed for good on the 29th of March. She was in government service until 1983 and then passed into private ownership, with the second owner repainting her Pimento from her original white. This is the colour - and indeed the paint - she still wears, now 40-ish years old. She's a lovely car to drive, has never had an engine rebuild, but must have been maintained well as she only blows a puff of smoke when she starts cold and that's it.
My other car is a 1974 Triumph Stag, M/OD, hardtop, in French blue and running a V8 that BLMC (Australia) designed off the same Buick engine that creates the venerable Rover 3500 and was placed into a BL Australia car known as the Leyland P76. My Stag goes extremely well with the 4.4 litre all-aluminium lump up front - the fact the engine is lighter than the original 3.0 litre Triumph V8 meant she had to be lowered by an inch up front to sit level. I flew from near the top of the north island to near the bottom of the south island to look at this beast and my first drive of it cemented the fact that THIS was the one I wanted. I then drove it 1176km (700-odd miles) back up the two islands to my home. The car and I have a love-hate relationship at times, but I do love driving with the top down and the rumble of the big V8 in my ears - it is SO intoxicating! She too is a survivor, having ha her last paint job around 1986. She has battle scars from things falling on her in the two earthquakes in Christchurch in 2010 and 2011, but being that she spent most of her life in the southern dry climate, her rust didn't start appearing until I had to leave her parked outside for the past couple of years.
Neither car has ever been welded, although both show repairs from the odd light impact. Although I love driving my Stag in the summer, my favourite HAS to be the 2500S. It is a car that one can run as a daily and I did so for the first 4 years I owned it. It is economical enough, parts are plentiful, it is easy to work on and she keeps up with modern traffic quite easily. The car has taken the family away on holiday several times and I once did over 550km (330 miles) in one day just tripping around the country backroads to various locations with the club. I got out of the car still feeling good too - it is such a wonderful car to travel in and if you feel like throwing it around and scaring the crap out of some boy racer in a ricer who thinks an old car has no ability, you can certainly scare them up a few inches in their seats - largely because they will run out of talent before I have even got half way into the limits of the handling of the 2500. For their day, they were so much further advanced than the more popular Ford Cortina / Escort etc and are underestimated when it comes to a driver's car. The only changes I will be making when it comes time to rebuild the engine is adding a TR6 grind to the cam and slapping a set of extractors on the exhaust manifold. In my view, that little engine already has some great pulling power, but it just needs a bit more through the middle and top end and the ability to breathe a little easier. The twin HS6s certainly deliver enough fuel to do the job and the overdrive gearbox and 3.45:1 diff ratio give the extra legs when needed. You cannot improve much on perfection, so why bother?
Enjoyed this look at the unknown / killed off prototypes - especially the Fury. That to me was one of the biggest and saddest moments because they ooze style and sex appeal and would have sold well. Likewise the Lynx II - a good looking car that never was. Had BL considered rationalisation to the point of leaving Triumph to come up with the executive sports vehicles and GT cars, they would not have had to stoop to the level of rebadging a middle of the road Japanese car as the final hurrah for the marque. I parted company with the Triumph car club back in 2022, but I kept my Triumphs because I cannot think of anything I would rather drive that has the style and exclusivity of the breed and handles as well on the tricky NZ B-roads. I won't be without one.
All the best
I’ve been thinking a lot about Triumph recently. Until BL well and truly cut Triumph off at the knees in the 1970s. Triumph made some of the best British cars of the 1960s, and pretty much pioneered the sporty junior exec car. They employed some of BL’s finest engineers, and in the 60s at least had a very healthy export market, notably to the US. To end up as a badge on a Honda was almost like kicking the brand when it was down, then rubbing its nose in the mud. Excellent video as always Tom - very well researched and presented!
I agree with you Simon and thanks I appreciate it!
EU
To be fair though the Triumph Acclaim was an excellent car.
The real kick in the teeth is the MG octagon finding its-self stuck to lumpy looking crossovers.
@@Jay-ru3mu
Nope. Just poor management in some quarters of the BL empire.
@@skylined5534it was - but I feel it should have been badged a Morris, and the Ital canned. Triumph could have still existed as a halo sports car and sporting exec car brand. I guess the plan though was to spin Rover out as the single premium AR brand.
Another fantastic presentation. Good to see someone showing real passion for the histories of the everyman cars and not the usual supercar manufacturers.
I worked in a small backstreet repair service garage in essex in the 80's and had the surprising pleasure of doing a full service on a road trim TR8, was trying to figure how the owner had shoehorned a v8 into a TR7 only to be informed as to its origins!! Was a massive TR fan back then and had never known of their existence. 'O'ooooooooo series, the mere mention of the name makes my heart sink to this very day, it seems the passage of time does not heal all scars!!!
Great info on these Triumph projects and prototypes Tom 👍👍👍
Thanks Neil! Appreciate it
TR8 is back racing again. Check out David Appleby Engineering. Mostly focusing on Aston Martins these days, but David had a hand in the 6r4 in some form or another, but has recently completed a batch of brand new TR8s with brand new body shells and engines. Ones has just started rallying again.
I’ll have a look, thanks.
It must have been totally depressing and frustrating for the designers, who clearly had a great eye for the future. If only the politicians, trade unions and management hadn't stuffed the whole industry.
That's the thing! BL was one of the most innovative companies ever and had some of the most fascinating R+D projects going. But like you say, internal politics, external politics were the killer for such a once great company.
I loved Triumph as a brand and lusted after my Brother-in-law's 1300 when he had it. I then wanted a Toledo, but got something else (can't remember what) eventually in '76 I got my First Triumph. A '66 Spitfire Mk2. That car taught me so much about engineering, that I still love both the car and the career I eventually followed. I did just about everything there was to do on the car. Replacing rear spring suspension and top hats etc, to rebuilding the engine and rear diff, all in an attempt to cure a mysterious knocking. This turned out to be the splined adapters which had worn mountings (splines were fine). I can remember going to Earls Court to see the new range of Triumphs and fell in love with the TR6. That is a love I still have to this day. I may be in my (very) late 60's, but I would have one today if I were not as decreped as I am. If your idea for Triumph were to be used in the ideal world, I'd never have bought anything else but them...
Good story such a shame they never made most of them would have been good to see where it lead to
It is a shame, especially how a lot of them ended.
I love that Broadside coupe. Lot of Bristol vibes about it.
The 2.5pi and 16 valve Sprint engines were very fast for their day even in standard form!
Great vlog Tom.
Fascinating. I always loved Triumph
Thanks John, one of my favourite marques
I remember the joke going around in the '80s....
"What's the difference between VD and the TR7?"
"You can get rid of VD".
I did love my Mk4 Spitfire, though!
Tom, What a well produced and informative film, I always had a passion for Triumphs and still remember the joy of owning and driving my first Herald leading to a couple of Spitfires Vitesse and Triumph 2000 / 2500. Thank you for your work always culminating in a great watch.
Excellent video, just one more detail that some people might find of interest, and only came about as a result of the chat I filmed at the BMC and Leyland show last year. The car on your thumbnail (MYE778P) an early TR7 is shown with a lady, she was, in fact, Barry Sheens girlfriend, then wife, Stephanie McLean! The car then went on to be painted in Leyland rally colours of the time as a promotional vehicle, then was used for some circuit racing, and finally it was recently restored and back on the road in time for the show.
Loving your videos.
I'd love you to feature the MG Metro Turbo....fond memories ❤
That Triumph Fury was a properly pretty car. Addressing many improvements over the standard Spit without stepping on the Stag's toes. And I'll forever lament the loss of the TR7. If it had started life as the Sprint and/or if the TR8 gained more traction then it may've been a different story. May have. BL was still BL and Speke was still Speke. I've said it countless times before but BL has an awful lot to answer for. Subscribed...
TVR revived the TR7/TR8 with a high price a few years later and at a high price. The TR7 was also the car of Joanna Lumley's Purdey on THE NEW AVENGERS, which replaced her driving an MGB. It was yellow, but they had a red one when they shot four episodes in Canada. Wonder what happened to the actual cars used. Maybe you can do a video on that. Thanks for this one!
On a recent trip to the British motor museum at Gaydon I got to see in the metal some of these motor cars and to say they were missed opportunities is an under statement 😇😇
A really great video, good to see that the TR7 Sprint was mentioned, a shame more were were not produced. The other thing I thought of was the Stag Fastback, not much information on it, only 3 ever made and one surviving. Would be amazing if that could be featured in another video. Thanks.
I always felt the popup headlights on the TR7 were a mistake in the shape of them. A nose more akin to the later SD2 would have been more stylish! I did like the interior and found it very comfortable to drive. If they had brought out the hatchback version i know it would have given the Capri a real scare in the sales!
The Lynx looked good. I think it would have been a success - especially with a V8
It did yes, amazing looking thing.
Back in the days one of my father's colleagues at BLNederland built his own TR8 from a TR7 and a Rover V8. It differed slightly from the later factory model by a tiny black bonnet bulge. And I remember a V12 engined TR7 outside the NEC sometime in the early '90s. Not a prototype as such, but with its half a dozen double Webers quite an impressive sight.
The classic example of good old British management "mismanagement" & weak management & management infighting when multiple companies are brought together in an attempt to become more efficient! The end is always the same "Bankruptcy"
Great content, many thanks for sharing
I had a TR-7 in the late 70s. I loved it (when it ran). I got tired of having to say a prayer when it got dark, in hopes the headlights would pop-up.
As a big fan of Triumph thank you for this wonderful insight into what might have been.
No problem David, glad you enjoyed it
That was a very nicely researched and presented video, and may I say it's nice to see a young chap who's not listened to public school pricks like Clarkson, and done his own research into our once great car manufacturing industry.
When referring to our motor industry, BL in particular. The Clarkson's of this world love to use the term 'ill conceived'. Whereas badly executed is more the case with a lot of cars. Often the concept was excellent.
I'm old enough to remember the formation of BL and the subsequent disintegration of our motor industry. The blame can be fairly laid at the management, and the trade unions. With a little help from various governments.
Triumph chiefs telling Spen King that they thought about the Rover V8 for the Stag but it wouldn't fit. Well it would fit, but the Stag was launched with that woeful engine and it cost the company dearly.
In the US a Stag cost about the same as a V8 Mustang at the time, and yet the Yanks were prepared to pay that for a British car such was Triumph's reputation. Obviously that soon finished once the Stag's shortcomings were apparent.
How about the 1969 strike at Speke over which unions members were to tighten two screws in the Triumph 2000 dashboard.
The above are just two examples of the stupidity that ultimately brought BL to it's knees.
I have an old memory, that the US soap opera "Dallas", one of the female characters, drove a TR8 convertible for a while. Gave it a lot of publicity at the time.
You should do similar for Rover. I lived in Warwickshire in the 60s and we often saw Triumph, Rover, Jaguar and Chrysler mules and prototyoes.
I tripped across the Rover BS in Warwick market square when I went to register my Imp. I noted the two SU carbs poking up in a little transparent dome on the rear "deck". It seemed tiny at the time ... even compared to my Imp!
The broardside has got the same design of side / door as the montego
Superb video...
Some good content Tom.
*I always thought the Stag was an absolutely beautiful car, not reliable though I hear*
Great video. The fury is gorgeous.
Could you do a video on the Dolomites. Was there any specials built.
My first car was a lovely red mk4 spitfire. I traded that in for a 1973 mk3 GT6 for a bit more speed. The GT6 was my daily driver for 20 years, noisy, rattly, leaky and loads of fun.
keep em coming tom the more the merrier
The SD2 prototype looks a lot like the later produced Citroen BX
I thought that too, maybe there’s a connection
Same designer possibly?
@@chrisblay SD2 styling was led by David Bache. BX was a Bertone design, and based partly on the Tundra concept car, and Reliant / Anadol FW11, designed by Marcello Gandini. Bache was very heavily influenced by Italian design houses though, so that’s where the similarities might lie………
@@simonhodgetts6530 interesting.
IMHO Triumph should have gone with the Fury and paired it with a Stag-like body as Fury was said to share much with the 2000/2500 circa mid/late-1960s as the TR6, the TR7 would then be compromised of the Michelotti Bullet/Lynx that were linked to Puma/Bobcat (can also see precursor elements of the P76 & Force 7 Coupe in styling) and after that Michelotti's proposal for Broadside.
you could look at rover way... the welsh factory, or lucas pontypool, who supplied all the bits, or teaves ebbw vale the clutch kits or saunders valves, abergavenny who mafe the tapets.
@Tom Drives
I allways , look forward to ur vids
So factual .......great research
I love British Leyland like u man.
We had , minis , maxi snd allegro cars
Thanks Matthew, appreciate it! Wish I had an Allegro, such funny little cars.
@@tomdriveshi mate , oh i never sed
Ok , so father got my mum a new car , not another 850 mini no an allegro 1.5 vinyl roof 4 doors , quad wheel i remember it well the smell n sound , mum hated it , to heavy she sed the clutch went 1 day as we went shopping after that mum got another mini , which was well nice , father had a 17.50HL maxi with 5 gears .....woooow !! Oh n front lap belts !!!!
The Australian distributors of Triumph produced a Turbo TR7 - Modern Motor magazine had a road test
saw a tr8 on the car show circuit in south yorkshire, only around 300 made
2700 approx made, not 300.
Interesting, never heard about the Bobcat
If you're doing another Triumph video. What about the prototype second gen Triumph Dolomite as shown at Gaydon. Looked more like a BMW but was never made. Also I recently saw photos of a newly restore Triumph Stag. I wonder was there ever a mock up of a Coupe Triumph Acclaim or a version of a Honda Prelude but TR badged. Ive seen the SD2 Triumph and it was disappointing compared to the SD1.
great work had 8 triumphs 2 dolly sprints i would love to own one today
I remember a yellow TR7 put on display in a Asda car park in hunts cross Liverpool,it was in a display stand where the old Truimph factory was,not sure what happened to it?
That’s one I’ve not heard of before, where Speke was I assume?
Its not there anymore unfortunately I think maybe disapered 15 -20 years ago. It was placed at the back of asda hunts Cross at that time a discount store opened called the tr7 store or similar named. What stands three now is a next/gym and a matalan
@@tomdrivesyes next to speke. Next to the old triumph factory
@@tomdrives one too look in to Tom.
Unfortunately some philistines set it,(and the display box upon which it was mounted) ablaze in the late 90s/early 00s.
Bar stewards.
The TR8 concept was just a beauty ! it would have been a great success of the 60's luxury and sporty middle engined cars industry if it would have been produced ! What a gorgeous design!!! In my opinion, the TR7 was just uggly !
Superb 👍😉💪
Thanks Alan
Strikes caused by corporate greed. I remember the strikes of the 70's and 80's. It was a really crappy time to be around 😢
What a great story and fantastic research. My dad had a total of 6 triumphs, mainly mk1 and mk2 saloons and estates. But he also had a Dolly sprint, but with an auto gearbox! (he only drove autos). It's a shame that the political situation in the '70's drove this great car company down. Can't wait for the next installment. PS. You have yourself another sub.
I would thrilled if you could do some video on the only vehicle to appear in the Louvre in Paris as a work of art!!!
The mighty original two door Range Rover!!!! First vehicle with disc brakes all round, duel braking system, permanent 4WD etc etc!!!! Regards Ian 👨🎤🇳🇿👍🙏
The amazing World of the dinosaur preservation society.
Could you do anything on the Rover P8? Maybe the British Motor Museum would give you access to the prototype.
That’s the next bit, exploring the Rover P cars that didn’t make it.
the P8 is rotting in a shed behind the museum.
Is it? I remember reports that it was broken up and Anders described it as being 'embarrassing'.@@NUHUH-12345
It had been left in the open at Studley for a few years before being moved to the museum.
A few very good looking cars there,, and a few more horrible looking ones!
Triumph 2000 automatic 1965 triumph 1300 1968 I once travelled in
Triumphs of the 60's were fun, good looking, cheap and easy to work on. For instance, a replacement alternator costs £75 and can be done in 5 minutes... ...whereas on my hideously ugly modern shopping trolley it took 3 hours and cost £ several hundred.
So I guess Triumph failed cos their cars weren't "modern" enough...
I own one of last TR-8s, a 1982, built in August of 81....fast and comfortable, but with poor build quality in the interior and convertible top. The car could have been a huge hit...
"Broadside" is a type of car crash, did they name other cars "rear ender", or "head-on", or perhaps Roll-over"?
The Fury was a great looking car I have never heard of. The rest of the cars shown her were actually nothing special to look at. In the Seventies most cars coming from the UK were not special anymore. At least those that were affordable. With a few exceptions. The last real Triumph that I liked was the TR 6. And it was a nice ride.
And the build quality in the UK was probably even worse than in Italy.
A friend whose father was a British diplomat always wanted to buy Fords made in the UK. But those cars seemed to be plagued with faults and failures. At the end he started buying Fords made in Germany and the problems stopped nearly immediately.
It is so sad. I had a soft spot for cars from the UK and Italy. But honestly the cars built in Germany that I never really loved for the most part were more reliable. At least in the Seventies and Eighties.
Too sad ! The TR7 Sprint is what the car should have been from the start !!
My thoughts as well, it’s a shame.
The SD2 looks like a baby Citreon SM, weird.
I am really loving the channel, and your obvious love of BL, so easy to dunk on it for views and parrot Clarkson's canned phrases. How about a look a Bristols?
Thanks, I agree with you there. I’ll have a look!
After seeing this brilliant and well researched I think the Triumph company could have gone a long way. But sadly internal politics and strikes stopped it. Back in those days people seemed to strike for any little reason.
The bobcat looks a bit saab ish at the back and front
#BringBackTriumphCars 😉
The Lynx looks a lot like the Renault 17.
The curved C pillars ruined the back of the coupe
👍
“Incredible” and “TR7”, that’s not something I’ve ever heard in the same sentence!
When was the last real Triumph produced (excluding the Acclaim)?
1981 I believe when TR7 production was shut down.
SD2. More like a Citroen. Imho.
No wonder Leyland Failed taking Triumph with it!!
Was that fiat designed by the same person that did the Triumph Tr7?
No
Or, Tr-8 driven by Vermonter, John Buffum?? Yeah, forget that, right?
I can’t list everything? Also how do you know that I won’t be making a dedicated video to these cars in future covering that history.
Was BL was the worst managed company in history?
BL truly designed some of the worst looking cars ever.
Using the words “Incredible” and TR7 in the same sentence is not really on mate.
A TR7 that almost shook itself to pieces? Just wait a year or two, it'll rust itself to pieces. It'll do that safely as it won't be running at the time, the electrics will have failed long before that would happen. A neighbor had one, a brown one, the right color for that pile.
Broadside would have been a horrible name. We would have called it the Roadside, because that's where you would be most likely to see one. LoL
British cars were crap, that’s why foreigners stopped buying them in any great numbers 40-50 years ago and the UK stopped buying them a decade or 2 later. Good riddance to the UK car industry.
He's a proud historian of the cars of his people let him be most countries make crap cars
@@TwoDollarGararge
I wasn’t talking about him but the cars. And yes most countries did make crap back then but by the 1980s the Japs and Germans started seriously pulling ahead.
Hit the road, Jack. You're talking cobblers.