Why did the Stag FAIL so Spectacularly?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- The Triumph Stag has looks and sophisticated style. Those Italian lines of this easy Grand Tourer looked epic when it was released in 1970, and the lucrative North American market beckoned. With a throaty 3.0L V8 engine, it had the power to take on its 6-cylinder rival, the Mercedes SL. Yet in just seven years production ended and it was all over. So what happened? Why did this beautiful car falter and die?
An excellent companion video: • Triumph Stag & Stag Ow...
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Errata: Timing chain, not belt.
Pantera Rio should be Panther Rio.
Thanks to everyone who pointed these out!
Big Car I was going to say Panther Rio too, very interesting and well researched, I loved the Stag to look at, a mate of mine did a rebuild in the early 80´s
lovin your videos keep going mon brave 👍
@@45green1 Panther Rio was a Dolomite with fancy alloy outer panels. Not sure of production number, but I have heard it was a one-off.
I heard "Pantera" and thought, that's the Ford V8 powered Italian exotic sold in the states through Lincoln/Mercury dealers in the early seventies.
@@pashakdescilly7517 My best friend's father was Robert Jankel, Panther creator, the family was using a Rio at the time, I got a few trips in that
It still looks absolutely stunning today. Triumph cars of this era had much better looks than other manufacturers at the time. In my personal opinion.
Unless you afford an e-type.
@@toni4729 How can you compare a mere E Type to a Triumph Toledo in Russet Brown ! Seriously though, a Triumph 2.5 PI or TR6 hard at work sound as good as a Spitfire and I don't mean the car! Looks are another matter.....
@@philhealey449 Well Phil when it comes to that the world is definately on my side. The e-type is considered the worlds most beautiful car ever built and they cost millions if you want to buy one in good nick today.. and I mean millions. I will admit though I wouldn't want to pay the petrol prices for the V12. That was going too far.
@@toni4729 Strange how tastes evolve; I was looking at current BMW 320 estate today; it was so ugly I thought initially it was a rebadged Mazda, how fabulously stylish the 1980s BMW 3 Series saloons and 'tourer' seem today. Efforts to replicate the elegance of E type, S type and early XJ's in later Jags all seem to have been doomed and they seem like blobs of jelly. I had a Rover SD1 in period and although that looked good then and now, it was mechanically rubbish. I think my 1978 Range Rover eclipses all later efforts by Land Rover and it's the overall shape , the waviness of its aluminium panels and the wraparound bonnet that floats my boat. I nearly bought a scruffy AM Lagonda Wedge in about 2001 that was then an acquired taste and very affordable; today I wish I had done! I did however acquire a W100 Mercedes instead and although it's permanently under renovation with some nightmare hydraulics, pneumatics and brake costs, its always appreciating. Cars to buy now are proper Bentleys - Turbo R, 1990s Continental and Arnage. Strange, in period I lusted after a TR6 and have a project car, but never warmed to MGBs, Austin Healeys or Jags. I take it you have an E-type, hope it's not an auto! I love the XJ coupe in Harry's Garage, fabulous soundtrack and a very fit car driven hard and benefiting from some suspension work. Happy Motoring !
@@philhealey449 I have a little old BMW 2003. I don't like the new ones they look too cheap and easily damaged to me. My car still feels solil althogh it's been around and it's only a little thing a 318 hatchback. I love it.
I couldn't afford anything bigger anyway and as for a Merc well that's out of the question. I like them but by the time I get to buy one I'll be too old to drive.
Triumphs of this era looked fantastic - the way management bungled the brand was criminal.
As was the awful build quality by the “unionised” workforce who didn’t want to work
@@robandys6109 Who are you quoting?
@@nkt1 - Some people use quotation marks for emphasis; kind of like italics.
@@scootergeorge9576 Indeed. I wish they wouldn't.
@@robandys6109 A fundamental of mass production is that there is only one way of doing a process. The right way.
You obv have no knowledge of production processes or labour organisation.
First saw a Stag in my school playground in the early 70s, it looked great just sitting there, but when someone jumped into the passenger seat I saw there were lights inside the doors - seemed more like a spaceship than a car. Then it took off, the noise was just glorious. One of the best looking and best sounding cars built. Ever.
I bought a 1977 Stag this year after having hesitated for years researching the pitfalls. With proper maintenance it runs beautifully, is reliable, starts first time, doesn't over heat, sounds and looks great!
You sure it was a Stag?
@@DaveCorbey oh no sorry! It was a Suzuki.😄
@Bif Stiff Update: It was okay until the jack shaft joint sheared off, the water pump failed and the engine melted. Apart from that it was really reliable.
I had a Stag for three years. Wonderful, no problems at all. Best handling car I ever had. Bit heavy on the petrol. I wish I still had it!
@@PaulGunnMusic Stag has always been a great-looking car. But in 2022, with all of its' known engine issues, it would be a great candidate for conversion to EV. At least the Stag could have a second life.
I had a stag for 12 years, really loved it. Once I'd rebuild the engine properly ( unlike British Layland haha) It worked absolutely lovely and sounded nice. Never let me down since, also they had timing chains not belts.
Of all the cars ive owned over the last 40 odd years the only ones that have let me down have had timing belts. Pathetic. To expect an (albeit strengthened) rubber belt to do all that work under hot and oily conditions is just UTTER folly.
@@syhooverman5418 Timing belts work perfectly fine if you replace them in regular intervals. They are just like engine oil, tires or brake pads. Wear items that need to be replaced ever so often to ensure reliable operation. Besides, car manufacturers these days can easily build a timing chain that explodes after 100.000 miles.
@@flemingpandel5287 Providing the manufacturer gets the service intervals correct from the outset. Many Opel engines used in Australian badge engineered Holdens had belt failures well before the stated replacement interval, forcing a reduction to the replacement limit, which still wasn't sufficient to prevent further failures. When you consider the ramifications on an engine where the valves hit the pistons when a belt breaks, and the thousands of dollars in repairs as a result, that flimsy, thin belt doesn't seem very smart. This doesn't even address other issues with those belts like idler pulley failures, which used to occur because the outer belt guide was made of plastic, which tended to break. Even a water pump seizure or belt tensioner problem can cause the belt to come off, with the same expensive bent valve problems. It's no wonder the belt era is pretty much over now.
I had a Slag for 8 years, and could not get rid of her for love nor money. She was also a thirsty beast, and constantly drained my wallet. I eventually got rid of her at a classic car show, many miles from home, just drove off and left her there. Then replaced her with a newer, less thirsty, cheeky little minx, who does a much better job of keeping the bed warm for when I get home from work.
@@syhooverman5418 Depends on the car.
Intervals on my Saab 9-3 were 90k miles. 30k on an Alfa Romeo 145, of which, I owned 2, and 90k on my current Volvo V50. So it really does depend on the car you choose.
People blamed the unions in the 1970s but the management also made bad decisions.
Yes, rivalry between the heads of the different brands within British Leyland might have actually led to many union strikes, because of the mess management constantly made. And let's be fair: if management doesn't care, why would the unions and/or the workers?
They pretty much deserved each other.
The management was poor, but the whole conglomerate was put together for political rather than commercial reasons. It was probably unmanageable.
@@johnwhitham7127 It was put together for political reasons, true. But the management of any organisation still needs to be able to recognise and deal with the advantages of scale that that political decision had created. Yet they never even began to do any of those basic things that management need to do. There wasn't even basic cost/benefit analysis! Nor was it even clear who on the board was making the decisions. If political interference was a factor (and it was), then wtf did NONE of the levels of management speak out against such meddling? Could it possibly be because even the management saw the whole BL thing as just another cash cow, letting them earn a respectable income with no responsibilities? In other words, precisely the malaise that THEY claimed of their own workers!
the fact is that, by the time decent management was finally hired (rather than inherited) it was probably too late to do anything.
Of course the workforce was inefficient, strike-prone and produced poor quality product. But anybody who works in management knows that decent management is capable of motivating workers, creating change and rationalising basic production to reduce costs AND improve reliability. That never happened. Nobody even TRIED to make it happen, and British management never learned even the most basic lessons of vehicle production. And so BL was scuppered, and even those decent products were eventually hived off, not because the WORKERS couldn't work, but because, even with BMW's coffers open, the management, even at such a late stage, couldn't do their bloody jobs.
The older I've got the more I've come to realise that management is an industry of its own and its principle aim is to ensure the continuity, and preferably expansion, of the management industry. If that happens to be at the expense of everybody else, including their employer, then so be it.
Speaking from my own experience and in sweeping generalisations... Most managers are superfluous and only exist to create a fiefdom for other managers. Most managers are incompetent and they try to appoint other managers that are at least as incompetent as they are because to do anything else would make their incompetence more obvious. I've seen that rare exception, a truly competent manager, be appointed to a lowly role (presumably by accident) and go up the hierarchy at speed sacking, and not replacing, virtually everybody under them. End result a manager and a deputy doing a far better job than then previous ten strong "management team". Clearly the other eight were doing nothing of any significance.
I would add that I've made two excursions off the tools and into management and it didn't end well either time so I'm not claiming I could do a better job. I'm a terrible manager. On one occasion I was sacked for being too much on the side of "my girls" and not enough on the side of "the company" and on the other occasion I resigned out of boredom. I literally had nothing to do except "look busy" and looking busy 40 hours per week is too much like hard work.
Thanks for the video. My family has owned two Stags. One (my dad's) was all original, the other (my car) had a rebuilt high performance 2.8 liter V-6 German Ford Capri motor. With the engine swap, I could do over 60 mph in first gear. Dusted quite a few 911s in the eighties.
Nice
Yeah but you lost of the most important parts of the car, the sound!
I ran a 2 8 Ford V-6 in a B sports racing Lola . I dynoed it at 330 hp . It was dry-sumped , and had a custom cast cross-ram intake Manifold with 2 Porsche RS 3 barrel Webers . Dual point distributor . Max RPM 8500 . The week link was the small necks on the rods . The compression was so high , I had to run 2/3 premium + 1/3 100/130 av-gas . I could only get over 200 mph drafting an A car .
Yes - the German V6 was very good, the version that Ford put in the Mustangs was a piece of s--- from the carburetor down.
You should be shot for bastardising your Stag. You should have spent your money on sorting out the original engine. Shame on you!
When you have access to a GM V8 use it. It's their bread and butter and they do it well.
think that V8 was a Buick design
@@paulmaryon9088 Buick owned by GM
@@simonoldroyd5037 Buick had a habit of designing a few of their own engines in-house during this era
Buick's first V8, known as the "Nailhead" was designed in house.
It may have been a Buick design, but IIRC, they didn't want it because it was aluminium. The Rover version had was manufactured in the UK and had Rover designed head and peripherals. I don't think GM ever used it. I had always wanted a Stag, and in the 90s I looked at a couple which had been rebuilt with new electrics and Rover V8s. They were just out of my reach at the time.
Leyland screwed Triumph completely. In the mid-70s I had a MK2 2.5PI. A beautiful car, like a big Stag. The engine was fine apart from the Lucas mechanical fuel injection which was so unreliable that I used to carry two or three spare injectors around! Triumph had wanted to replace it with Bosch electronic injection, but Leyland wouldn't let them have the money to do the mods needed. All very sad. Both the 2.5 and the Stage would have done well in the US with better build quality and the Rover V8.
Fun story: When Saab wanted a more powerful engine for their 99 lineup they went to Triumph (they were already using Triumph slant 4 engines, although they improved them) to see if they could use their V8 in the 99. Triumph agreed and Saab did some testing with this engine but determined it to be too unreliable, still looking for more power they decided to add a turbo to their existing engine, making Saab one of the earlier Turbo adopters.
I worked for a Triumph restoration company in late 80s. The Stag owners were Always told to bin the Triumph V8 & replace it with the Rover unit. Making it the car it should have always been. Also the half v8 engine, with the iron block & alloy head would weld together, making head removal near impossible.
Lazy bastards should be shot, they should have taken pride in the Stag and sorted out the Triumph engine, instead of taking the easy option.
I had a stag for a few years. I loved that car but in the time I owned it, it cost me more pounds than it travelled in miles. Bloody thing.
I bought a brand new Triumph Stag in 1973. It went through 7 (yes, 7) cylinder heads in the first year. I was doing pretty well at that time and graduated from the Stag to a Ferrari in 1974. Most of the girls I took in the Ferrari said they preferred the Stag..... It was, by far, the best bird pulling car I've ever owned. - However, the reliability was absurdly bad. Had the Stag used the Rover engine (lighter and much more powerful) and had a bit more quality control, it would have been an unbelievable winner. It wouldn't have needed much to make that car superb.
Your description of the engine's multiple design and production problems are brilliant.
Stags developed the worst reputation possible here in New Zealand, where most people installed the Rover 3.5 after spending half the value of the car in pointless repairs to the bad engine.
Triumph Stags are a very rare sight here on the road (NZ) nowadays; I suspect that there are quite a few though sitting in owners garages, gently fading away because their owners don't have the $$ or the will to fix them. A great shame as the Stag is a great looking car. A real head turner.
@@gordonnorris6991 Agreed there was one near me up until a few years ago
Having bought a new Triumph Stag in 1973 - and having seen the cylinder head gaskets fail 7 (seven) times in the first year, I can promise anyone that the failure of the Stag was entirely due to the 3 litre engine. The 3.5 Rover enhine would have been faster and more reliable. They "dropped a bollock" with the Stag. It could have been a fantastic world beater. The reliability of the car was very poor. Manufacturing techniques and quality control were abysmal.
Terribly sad because I was in awe of the Stag when I started to notice them as a kid back in the early 80's.
A friend of mine's brother had a gorgeous blue one and I remember taking a drive in it sitting in the back seat feeling the wind and the open top joy.
What a car, despite it's shortcoming.
B.L. were ludicrously incompetent as a car and they should've hung their heads in shame. They had the opportunity to fix that company but their ego and arrogance got in the way of sensibility.
They trashed so many car brands and took the whole house with it down the toilet.
Nothing short of criminal.
7 head gaskets replaced
All on warranty
How many miles did you cover
You should have taken legal proceedings against the manufacturer
NO FIT FOR PURPOSE
Idiots as engineers repairing the engine cooling system
@@tonymontana897 Same here mate, I loved the Stag but sadly never owned one, I had the opportunity of a beauty but let it slip through my fingers. They still look stylish today. I had a TR7 and a Spitfire which I enjoyed, the Spitty more than the TR7 I must admit. The Speke plant was about 2 miles from where I lived, long gone now.
No problem with mine...it had kenlowe fans
FAIL? Or DAMAGED from over heating because whoever did those repairs, did not identify and rectify the cause of the over heating.
On any car, Cylinder Head Gaskets rarely fail. Invariably they are first damaged by an excess of heat IN ANY car. Ask my work colleague who sent his five series to the breaker yard as he was advised the Head Gasket had failed and he could not afford the repair costs. Nice car met a premature demise due to ignorance.
Clarkson Wannabees and those who studied at the Clarkson Academy of automotive appraisal excellence and failed miserably are obsessed with the word FAILURE. It is a failing of many Brits where cars are concerned particularly those within the UK media in all its forms which is harmful to this nation in so many ways. As I type this in my peripheral vison is another YT posing ...Triumph TR7 = The Face of Failure.
I know of several Stag owners who are delighted with their cars. No over heating issues as they are maintained by folks who really know what goes on under their car's bonnets. I would not trust a certain spanner phobic so called motoring journalist to know where the bonnet release is on his daily driver. No names no pack drill. Magic happens is a clue.
Only in the Land of the increasingly self-inflicted. Bonus.. ongoing.
I had a Stag in the early 80's but with a Rover V8. I loved it, many fond memories. I sold it due to gearbox issues that no one would touch due to it being a hybrid. I'd have another in a heartbeat.
Buick in a STAG AAAAAARGH! YUK.
A great summary of the 'Stag' and a million times better then Jeremy Clarkson's effort back in the 1990's!
The Staaaaaaaaaaaggg! LOL!
Yes. Clarkson spends him time reviewing doing his crappy dated "jokes" about nationality and little else. Not exactly nuanced
Clarkson's pieces are always more about him than any car.
Better as far as facts but Jeremy's was more enjoyable.
@@scootergeorge9576 really? But that only leaves his cringe making boreish bar prop "humour". Let me guess, some razor like jibes at unionised Britai, lazy Frenchmen, women drivers and efficient germans
I know its engine was trouble but the car was stunning! I look with despair at the generic jelly moulds littering our roads nowadays? Cheers and loved the brummie dummy!
engine was not trouble if it was maintained properly!
Hear Hear !
I seem to remember that the rear end had a life of its own when cornering at speed.
Glen Powell Rose tinted memorys much better cars now no two ways about it.
@@alundavies5171
The engine *was* trouble. The fixes are well known. Mainly coolant related, and of course a quality timing chain needed.
Working for a sub-contractor from the early 70's through to the BA takeover, I was mainly involved with Redditch Marketing, but also met with engineers from Canley, Solihull and Longbridge. The consensus among those I met was the engine was ruined by the cost cutting team assembled by Stokes. The biggest problem being the duplex timing chain originally specified being reduced to a single one, but also the cheap coolant that caused the heads to weld to the crankcase. The engine survived as long as it did because of contracts signed with Saab before design work even began.
I seem to recall that same team removing one of the E-Type's windscreen wipers and fitting (Morris Marina?) window winder mechanisms that caused the doors to come open when completely down.
Have one and i rebuilt the engine. I have electric waterpump installed wich does an excelent job. I use it quite alot and it does not let me down. Very smooth although little underpowered as said. I love the car.
It's like most British sports cars of the era---beautiful to look at and a joy to drive, but it will leave you walking at some point
What about the King of them all? The Jensen Interceptor. Stunning looks Stunning unreliability.
@@muppetrowlf1473 What? They are not unreliable at all. After all it is an American Chrysler engine. Dad had one for years. Only issue was fuel use ... lol
Puts in mind of my Alfa Spider, very sexy, but I was always afraid to take it very far, even when it was a new car.
That explains why all the Brits in the era are fit and slim, unlike nowadays. Unreliable cars' silver linings.
always thought, that those elite school educated "managers" in the UK industry were amateurs, not or never using the engineering abilities, not guiding their staff and having no vision of what was possible at the time.
A result of the British class society!
And you think the communist work force had no part? I bet you are a real professor
@@joedennehy386
Can you name these communists? Those communists in China seem to make good things.
My brother owned one. It spent more time in the shop than on the road. But when it did run, it was awesome!
SAAB took engine production in-house in 72 and redesigned the cylinder head (B Series). Revised in 81 (H Series), and a 16-valve head in 85. Continued to evolve until the end of production in 2009.
Triumph built them at Canley in the mid/late 70s. I worked on the engine track.
Put a proper timing chain on it as well.
Rumours have that Saab were unhappy with the quality of the British built engines and thus took over production themselves...
Personally... I think the Britts made some beautiful exotic cars that was ahead of it's time also innovative .. R. 🇦🇺
Unfortunately too many production problems, too many corners cut and hence reliability problems. It's a pity they didn't concentrate on fewer models but build them well.
Yeah, in the 80's, lol.
@@stumac869 The biggest problem the British motor industry had were the trade unions. They spent more time on strike than they did making cars. It was a similar issue across all the nationalised industries, the unions were so powerful, the management were powerless and the staff could do pretty much as they liked. I've heard stories of one person going in on a Saturday morning and clocking 12 of his mates in for the day, then clocking them all out at the end of the shift, without any of them actually turning up. They thought this was a "perk of the job" and never considered the possibility that it was actually theft. I also know of someone who worked at Land Rover and stole so many spare parts he built his own car. It was a similar situation in the mines. I was talking to an old man who as part of a group look after an old winding house. Occasionally they open the doors to the public and I was talking to one of them. He was saying how many of the brass fittings had been stolen when the pit closed and was showing me one he had made to replace one of the stolen ones. Then he was telling me that they needed to fins someone to make one to go on the other side of the machine. I asked why he couldn't make another one for that side (which was identical) and he said he only worked on this side and the man that worked on the other side had died.That's exactly the attitude that got the mine closed in the first place.
Yeah no other car could break down as fast as a british car
@@wildman510.......think you missed out on the joy of Italian electric systems.
Always love them, particularly for the shape. So I bought a ‘77 that was in an acceptable shape but not great shape. Cost a fair bit to get it to how I wanted it, including a 3.5 Rover motor and a few other alterations, particularly a new cooling system. Absolutely loved the car and it was my daily drive for quite a few years. My wife hated it because every time she drove it, it always broke down. Sold it after a few years which I still deeply regret and wish I could now afford another.
I remember going to Coventry to meet Eamon Hurley of Hurley race engineering. He would put the ford 3.0 V6 in a stag . I asked him if he had a use for the left over V8s ? his answer cam back straight away "yes, filling up dustbins".
It's the other way round now. They are throwing out the Ford or Rover engines and putting back that wonderful Stag V8.
That original Stag made a good anchor too
Ford 3 ltr cast iron v6 is a piece of poo engine. I believe it was originally designed to be a diesel.
@@psk5746 WTF ??? The Ford V6 engine would last over 200K miles...
@@davidhollenshead4892 So what. 200k miles of boredom
One of the Triumph engines was blueprinted as part of a rebuild, they were expecting to increase to size of the radiator etc, but found that it worked perfectly as long as it was built to the spec. Unfortunately those coming off the line were anything but. Of those Stags that have survived most have had the engines built properly and are much sort after for the fine reliable car it should have always been.
For the love of cars
As you can see in my thumbnail, this one is locally owned from Washington state, and it is at the repair garage more than being on the road. It is because of this video I spot this and took photos, and if spotted again, will take more. An extremely rare vehicle here in the US 🇺🇸.
i am a 35 year panel beater spray painter . the problem with all old cars where they where crap . they where rusty before they even had the plates put on . i worked for ford dealers mostly but worked on almost all cars . the wiring where dreadful and dangerous . even the old jags . they where famous for wiring rotting and the wiring plugs broken as the over heated and fell apart . i hate to say it , but the best thing that ever happened to the motor industry was the japanese .
Stunning design. Absolutely beautiful. If I'd had the money or been around at the time, I would've bought one just to look at.
I would choose a Boss 302 Mustang, a Z-28 Camaro, or a Challenger RT, just to name three cars that looked great, while being much more reliable and much faster.
I did, and had plenty of time to look at it between engine breakdowns. Mine went through THREE engines in one year!
Here in the UK in the seventies no one could afford them..you could pick up an E-Type for a few hundred quid. Stags were 2 grand plus new, two years wages for a lot of Brits. We had high interest rates and banks that would only lend money to those who already had it .Plus a bout of hyper inflation in the early seventies. People tend to forget these things when romantacising about
what could or should have been ...oh..and... I nearly forgot..it was common knowledge that the V8 was crap.
I had a gorgeous Stag for five years, it had been rebuilt by someone who knew what they were doing. 4 speed manual gearbox with overdrive, original V8, stainless steel exhausts. The only big job I did was to fit an electric fan. I used it as my everyday car for the time I had it, top down unless it was actually raining. It was gorgeous, sounded like a dream. Power windows, power steering. If going travelling (or biosecurity to France), one could even put the roof up and use the space the roof went into for extra storage! I sold it because I was moving house, most stupid thing I ever did with a car (if you discount converting a Jeep Cherokee to LPG). A while later I got an automatic Stag - totally different beast to drive, didn't keep it long.
And have car companies learned their lessons? They continue to design new crap to this day when reliable engines are phased out of production.
Pressure by EU emission laws
@@greathey1234 pressure from bean counters, the profits just aren't there like they were.
@@richardrichard5409 i agree. look at the BMW six cylinder motors... from E36 -> the cost reductions coupled with turbos... couped with dropping two cylinders allegedly for emissions. really to satisfy profit margins... right? you're getting 25 mpg under most conditions with either motor. let those turbos spool up and watch your mileage... it seems farcical.
it's happened in every industry. people without industry passion, analyzing the business for shareholders, while never understanding the customers that actually purchase your product. in fact, in some ways auto execs hate their customers... making them build multiple models... motors and transmissions... how dare we!?
you'll take your eighteen speed automatic like a man!!
Nice video - thanks. As other have mentioned, the stag V8 and Dolomite 1850 4 used single cam chains and they were prone to jumping resulting in collisions between valves and pistons. Warped aluminium cylinder heads and cracked cooling parts also plagued these models.
Stephen Jones My dad had 2 triumph dolomites in his early twenties. One was a 1500 and the other was a 1850HL. the common problem was overheating and cylinder head warpage which meant the cylinder heads needed to be removed. I think he had to take them off about 3 or 4 times while he owned them. They were constantly jumping out of gear as well😂🤣😂
it's funny how unreliable the V8 was in it's own day, how reliable it is today with some good tlc
Such a shame, so many missed opportunities for BL and it’s brands it took on.
Another fine video! Perhaps the case could be made that the TR8 was the Stag's successor. With the Buick/Rover aluminum V8 it was far more reliable too.
Just like "Trigger's Broom" later versions of the little Buick V8 were a a very different engine.
I had one in the mid 70s.
Brilliant car. Had no engine problems EVER.
I drove to Scotland from London, on a thimblefull of petrol. (Might have been a tad more).
But I enjoyed that car very much.
Still a head turner today.
"They needed a new engine like they needed a hole in the head"... I see what you did there.
Doh!
Despite all its problems it's a car I'd love to have. It is to me the best looking car from Triumph.
I had one for 7 years, but eventually gave up on the stressed engine and lack of power and went to an MG B GT V8, which is 300 kg llighter and its engine endlessly tuneable. :-) . But still like the looks of a STAG and what he initially stood for.
The saddest thing was that the Buick derived V8 was there, with rights bought. Lighter than most V6s this engine was made for the Stag. So much talent in BL. Why!.......
I was reading yesterday that the British car industry made about 2M cars a year in 1970, and by the end of the 70's it was around 1M. Such a shame.
P.O.L.I.T.I.C.S. Stubborn people in the wrong place. How could such daft decisions be made, oh wait, we're living through such things again.
Two very good reasons: Triumph were convinced their engine was superior - and it might have been if there had been money for its development, and secondly Rover didn't have the capacity to build enough engines for their own use, never mind adding Triumph's requirements to the list.
The Rover V8 is not only lighter than most V6's but lighter than MGB 1.8 B series.
As for engine build capacity, it is easier to provide more tooling & staff rather than design new tooling. However this was BL, nuff said.
There could've been a V6 version of the Rover V8. Leyland Australia was working on a 3.3 litre V6 version of the Leyland P76's 4.4 litre V8 which was an enlarged version of the Rover 3.5 litre. Unfortunately the P76 was killed off before the V6 made it to the market.
I always loved the Stag. My first car was a Spitfire but that too was so unreliable that I never bought another Triumph
My old neighbours had a Triumph Stag . They thought it was a nice sport type car to have . Less than 1 year later they sold it claiming that it was too high maintenance . Just as this video was saying .
Everybody talking about what the Stag looked like....the problem wasn't the styling, it was the underlying mechanical bits, which were poorly designed to say the least. I had a 71 Saab 99 which had the Triumph designed OHC slant 4, and the idea of 2 of them lashed together sounds like a recipe for disaster. The last Stag I saw was about 5 years ago, parked behind a body shop way out in the Pennsylvania countryside and being used as a storage shed for rusty car parts. A suitable fate, actually.
The Stag is still a beautiful car, and has aged very well. They are still seen at many classic car shows during summer.
Just a shame that an under developed engine, funding problems, and communists killed off the project. It could have been up there with the E-Type Jag, and the beautiful Michelotti design deserved to share such an accolade.
Can you name these Reds under the bed?
@@johnburns4017 Red Robbo, and his militant followers had as much to blame in destroying BL/AR as the poor, short sighted management.
Red Robbo, for his appetite for strikes, and Management that failed to embrace innovation.
Also, because of poor sales compared to their competitors, and old technology, the funding was not there to develop new models. Instead, they had to collaborate with Honda, and sold THEIR cars with a British badge. So BL/AR failed to benefit from their own potential success, as much of the money from sales of the Triumph Acclaim, and the later Rover 200, 400, 600, and 800 series models went straight back to Honda.
Only the Metro, Maestro, and Montego were considered to be truly British, by design and manufacture, right up until the 75 was developed. But even that used BMW engines and drive trains for most models.
So after the Metro, Maestro, and Montego were launched, and the buying public found out how abysmal they were, then the writing was truly on the wall for BL/AR.
@@hermanmunster3358
You have been reading the Daily Mail too much.
Had mk2 in blue , beautiful to look at amazing engine noise, with no issues with the engine - just a swine to lock the roof in place ( pity not electric ) but of course adds weight and complexity!
My mum had one of these in the mid Seventies..in dark blue. Always seemed to be getting fixed. She loved to swank around in it.
It looks and sounds utterly brilliant, sadly the reliability was crap due to design and build quality
bloody British Leyland, always screwing up the simplest of things
British Leyland was not the downfall of the industry, it was the final attempt to keep the lid on the festering cesspit about to erupt. The iconic cars of the 60s like the Land Rover, Mini and E-Type were in fact all designed in the brief post war period of resurgence before the rot set in the 1960's.
The core problems was a dilapidated industry that failed to innovate where it really mattered rather than beat the drum of a few minor successes. The rest of the world moved on, innovated and invested in its infrastructure, while the UK merely consolidated what they had into what became BL in 1968 and despite having a massive production base, any issue in a single plant could instantly shut down the entire production. Ford, facing the exact same issues at the time could simply source parts from Europe.
British Leyland would have been a world class company in 1948 or even 1958, by 1968 it was a giant with clay feet. They were usually down to the repurpose of existing parts in a record time and hope for the best and even stunning designs like the Stag were mechanical failures and the decent cars were so horribly uninspired you lost all will to live every day you drove one. Given the issues, the real point is not that Leyland made shit cars, but how Leyland did manage to produce decent cars for their era like the Metro.
Leyland wasn't the murder of the UK car industry, it was one last doomed attempt to save it.
The irony is that Leyland had the potential to outgrow the problems that had plagued the UK automotive industry for over two decades, but everything conspired to make them worse. The UK's curse is to have been at the forefront of so many developments only to remain stuck with outdated industry and infrastructure.
I remember a 3/4" gap between the body and the top. Build quality was scary.
Drove one in the 90's in California. Rattle trap...
3/4 of an inch is standard British Leyland build tolerances 🤨🇬🇧
It seems to that BMC and BL had lots of good ideas that they managed to mess up.
It's very telling what a mess BMC/BL was back then and how everything went Murphy's Law there if you see how they managed to screw up even the most hopeful projects.
One of the best looking cars ever made, especially in light colours. So reminiscent of so many British products, all the ideas, all the style but none of the quality control.
I heard the main overheating problem was caused by the casting sand not being cleared properly from the heads water ways, causing poor coolant circulation?
I remember years back one of the car tags compared 3 Honda Accords. One from Japan, one from the US and on from the UK. The cars were basically equal across the board except the testers could tell the one from the UK because of the electrical system.
@@mpetersen6 Lucas, prince of darkness!
You are so right. We were a "Triumph family" from 1953, with the following vehicles under our belt: 1953 TR2, 1956 TR3, Triumph Herald (early rare two-tone coupe), Vitesse M2 open-top (fab car), one of the first TR6s, Triumph Dolomite Sprint and a GT6 Mk lll, the one that "did it" for me, confirmation that Triumph was doomed as a carmaker. Bought new in 1973 or 74, it spent much of the next 9 months in and out of the main Triumph dealers with a long list of problems, three of which were never fixed notwithstanding an assurance that a factory engineer would come down from Coventry and sort out the errant problems once and for all. From Day 1, the GT6's overdrive malfunctioned, failing to engage without a lengthy pause when the switch on the gear knob was activated and/or engaging/disengaging without warning when I hadn't activated the switch! The interior of the car was a "hothouse", the Triumph people quite unable to find out the cause of this which went unmitigated when windows were down. At about 7 months and 10,000 miles on the clock, I thought it was time to put it through its paces after a careful, progressive running-in process. It was gutless, acceleration times seconds off those quoted in the motoring press. The car's top speed never went beyond 92 or 93 mph on the clock. One early morning, I was awoken by hotel reception (where I was staying), to be informed that my car was on fire. The local fire brigade came and put out the fire which was mostly confined to the interior cockpit! Triumph refused to repair it under guarantee, stating that I must claim on my insurance! I wrote to Lord Stokes (or was it Sir Michael Edwards), CEO of British Leyland but got a very off-hand reply from one of his assistants, refusing to repair the burnt-out interior under guarantee or consumer law. I sued the Triumph dealer, the process taking the best part of 6 months before the case was due to be heard in the County Court. The day before my lawyers and I were due to travel to the court, the other side caved in and settled my claim in full.
-@@terrygoyan -lucas fridges always had warm beer.
Don't know how beautiful they are in person, as I have never seen one in US however, they look great in pics. It is sad that one of the best car ideas didn't really take off.
In the late 70's, I was in a breakroom, and overheard 2 people discussing a car:
"it was such a good deal, priced well below other roadsters", "looks great, but breaks all the time", "Quality sucks", then the telltate statement " and the V8 is terrible. " You can guess what it was.
Triumph Tiger?
What?
Poor fettling on manufacture meant casting sand was left in the blocks as well and when crossion oxides are added to the problem not only radiators but whole sections of the block would fail to flow coolant properly. If you ever tried to flush an engine at the time you would see sand wash out of the drain points. Sad part is with a little development they were and still are a smooth running and rich sounding motor.
Years ago, I was working for a company next to a garage, one of the shareholders (en extremely wealthy Luxembourger, who had passed the aforesaid garage to his son) had a mint blue Stag.
He pulled open the bonnet and pointed at a random rubber pipe. "See this? Orginaly it was a bolt. Had they put this extra cooling pipe when the cars were built, they would never have had a problem".
It was the cooling system which was a prime cause of the problems. Many owners sorted the cooling and then had a reliable nice old car.
The engine was absolutely fine. The trick is to remove it, strip it, replace most of it then reassemble it correctly.
🤣🤣
Yes the Stag's engine was crap, but what a lovely looking car. I drool whenever I see one.
I like the puppet! If only Triumph had listened to that little bird. I had a chance to drive a Stag in California in 1972. It was a convertible model, and that top was awful. There were no quarter windows. something my '66 MGB had. It let in a lot of wind noise and, although didn't get a chance to drive it in rain, I suspect it would have also leaked, just like the B. The folding top went into a special compartment behind the rear seats, losing precious luggage space. It was very hard to fold down, that one rear window was easily creased, and there were all sorts of fiddly bits to get it erected again. The lack of quarter windows made parking really hard, and felt like I was in a cave. I also thought it didn't help the looks of the car.
This car had the automatic transmission and a/c, both apparently standard in US cars. Weirdly, a radio wasn't standard. Even my 1970 Toyota Corona that was my family car came with an AM push button radio. The auto trans reminded me of the Chevy two speed Powerglide, even though it was three speeds. The wasn't such a bad thing since the Triumph auto and Powerglide were both good, smooth transmissions. It was so smooth I never really felt that third gear. The a/c, well, it was British. I got to drive the car for a week in typical Southern California spring weather with daily highs of about 80. The a/c was barely able to keep the car cool at those relatively low highs compared ot our 100 degree summer and fall heat waves. I suspect part of it was that mostly uninsulated and leaky convertible top. It may have performed better with the hardtop.
With the top down, it looked like a T top car like the Fiat X-19. I wonder if Triumph ever thought about that concept? The Stag seems like it would have been a natural. It didn't really handle better than the B since it had the same kind of solid rear axle. What made it worse was the featureless power steering, also standard. It made parking easy, but t was so soft there was almost no road feel. At least the B had enough road feel I could tell when the rear end was about to break loose.The Stag is not a car I'd like to slog around the same mountain roads I enjoyed in the B. The performance was, shall we say, less than sparkling. 0- 60 was a little under 11 seconds in my unscientific tests. This was at a time when a dead stock 302 c.i. V-8 in a 1969 Camaro could turn in a 10 second time. I didn't expect the Stag to be a drag racer, but I also would have been embarrassed to be in such a beautiful car and then have the doors sucked off by some kid in a Camaro or Firebird.
All I knew when I saw the car was it has 3.1 liter V-8, and I just assumed to was some version of the Rover V-8, since it would have been available when Triumph and Rover merged under BL. We in the US had some faith in the Rover V-8 since its lineage was from the popular and reliable Buick V-8, and it was amenable to performance enhancements. I didn't find out until later it was actually a new
Triumph V-8. As it turned out, I lucked into not buying one. The price was also quite steep. It was over $7,000 when a 1972 Corvette with a/c and a number of other options like the LT-1 350 c.i with 255 hp and a 7.7 second time was out the door for about $6,000. A thousand bucks in 1972 was real money, and I just couldn't justify the money with two young kids. So, my rating is it was a sexy car, every bit as attractive as a Ferrari GT, the interior was fantastic with all the leather and wood, but the price, workmanship, small issue like the convertible top and, as it turned out, the engine let the car down. Sadly, with a total production of only about 26,000 cars over seven years, the Stag was one of the nails in the BL coffin.
Rubbish.The Stag soft top folds easily away, much quicker than the powered top on my wife's SLK. And it doesn't leak.
@@melincourt I'm glad you got a top that folded easily. Apparently my experience and that of other contemporary reviews are simply rubbish. I'm sure your experience with the top is just one reason why the Stag was such a massive success.
@Sam Shlong "On early cars, buyers could choose to have the car fitted with just the soft-top, just the hard-top (with the hood stowage compartment empty), or with both. Later cars were supplied with both roofs."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Stag
Did you know luck is not a verb.
I agree I had a Stag for three years, the engine had been modified and cooling system modified..good servicing by a specialist, totally reliable but must be driven not left standing for weeks, the hood was fine, did not leak..I wonder if you actually drove or owned the car...your points seem a little two copy and paste...maybe playing to well known stereotypes...🤔
I knew that the Triumph V8 engine was unreliable, but did not know the details.
I do know now, because of your clear and concise explanation. Thank you.
Actually this is the only time I took the copy straight from the Wikipedia page, because it did a much better job of explaining it than I could (and you are allowed to use Wikipedia content in any way you like).
..surely by now almost all Stags have been rectified of the engine problems of the past
Good informative vid, the Stag, like many of BL cars, a good design (body wise) but let down by the usual Leyland mechanical reliability issues & ensuing strikes.
I owned a Stag shortly after their launch and found it a superb .
However it soon became unreliable and the back axle failed, the engine failed it became rusty.
Sadly the car industry was slowly dying with weak management and strike ridden workforce.
I feel Triumph should have built a factory in the USA with local management and workforce.
The problems of the British motor industry was caused 100% by bad management, failing to address the problems led to strikes, so the workers got blamed for everything, fast forward to Japanese manufacturers setting up in England, with Japanese management, end of problem, Nissan in Sunderland is the most productive, high quality factory in the company, so the answer is British workers and proper management.
@@jamesreynolds2867 Even worse than that - when (because of MFUs) they ran out of parts they'd find a way to goad the workers into striking so that they could blame the stoppages on them.
@@anonnona8099 Absolutely, I know from personal experience at the run-up to the Ford Cortina Mk III the company had quality control issues which needed a delay production, so the company "engineered" a strike
@@jamesreynolds2867 Poor industrial relations were undoubtedly a blight, and one of the root causes of the disfunctional relationship was the lack of respect shown to the workers - they were never accorded the importance and significance in the overall scheme of running a factory to make cars which they should have been, they were treated more like plant and machinery, to be wheeled in and out of use as the management saw fit. And it wasn’t the fault of the people who built it that the Triumph V8 was cack, it was the fault of the people who designed it.
And there was chronic under-investment. Did you know that in the 1950s/60s, Land Rover were actually proud of the fact that there was a long waiting list for their vehicles, particularly in Africa, they saw it as an indicator of how good their product was - everybody wanted one. The Japanese saw it as an opportunity to eat LR’s lunch by saying “you can have one pretty much right now”.
Its a shame Triumph couldn't have used Daimler's plucky 2.5lt V8... it was a great engine
Perhaps. Were they paying royalties to Buick ? the originator of the 3,500 Rover V8 . WHAT an easily avoidable disaster !. All alloy V8 would have been excellent !!!
Paul O'Connor rover bought the rights to that engine in the sixties so no royalties to pay William Martin Hurst done the deal as the engine was discontinued out in the states as it was too small
@@garethj9757 Gawd they were idiots attempting that Stag V8 then. Folly and a fools errand. That metalurigical stuff and the high water pump was news to me. I'd heard about the vapor lock. But Fragment / sludge in the Radiator !!. Four grenades built into that thing ?? !!
Dana Vixen..... the Ford 289 or 302 would've been even better.....
@@branon6565 Too large and heavy. It would have been nice to continue a good already existing British designed V8..
Keep up the good work! Hope they reinstate your original channel soon.
Your videos bring me and many other people a lot of joy!
NO please STOP.Find a better narrator.
I distinctly remember being overtaken by a brand new Stag on a long gravel road, which was riddled with corrugations. We were in our awesome '72 Landcruiser at the time, going about 60 km/h. Dad's friend, Alan, went by at 100+. We had to stop at one point, to pick up the rear bumper, which had fallen off the car about 20 kilometres into the unpaved section.
When we got to our destination, my Dad gleefully handed Alan his rear bumper. Later on, when we had a close look at the car, we could see the panels were not aligned correctly - which was perhaps also due to excessive speed on the corrugated road. Inside we found some of the trim beginning to come away from the backing, and some of the stitching was poor. One of the door handles didn't work quite right, either. I think the Stag was 4 months old at the time. My Dad encouraged me to buy only Japanese cars when I was old enough. That great advice could have saved me many tens of thousands of dollars maintaining a German supercar for a decade - but of course, it did not. :P
I seem to remember an advert in Private Eye at the time said: We promise to make Stag owners very happy. We throw the engine away. (They were advertising a Ford replacement.)
I first came across this car in 1976. My friend next door said he couldn't get his bike out of their garage because his mum's Stag was in the way. I wondered why his mum couldn't just run the Stag out onto their driveway. He was evasive and looked embarrassed.
I now realise why it wasn't possible just to run the Stag out onto the driveway.
A few years ago I hated someone so much that I recommended they buy a Stag. "An excellent daily driver for inner city Sydney" I said "rock solid, totally reliable". I really hated that bloke.
Beth Tender that’s nasty hahahahaha
Why not just do what any normal person would do, follow them home and put dog shit through their letter box!
@@bartram33 The dog shit is a one timer, the Stag will keep on giving.
NZ Salt Flats Racer , that’s funny.......and true.
You could've gone one further and recommended a Hillman Imp
I made the mistake of buying my wife a lovely yellow Stag in the 70’s . I made an even bigger mistake of driving it down to the south of France, at least trying to! We got as far as just south of Paris when it started to over heat. We got recovered and were taken to the local British Leyland French garage at Fountainebleau where they proceeded to repair it whilst we carried on our journey in a hire car. Three weeks later, we collected the repaired car and settled the bill which was around £1500 a tidy sum in those days. We proceeded with our journey back to the UK secure in the knowledge that the car was repaired by the proper franchise garage. After only about 100 miles, it started to run hot. Because it was now late in the day and the garage was shut, I carried on . The result of this was one ruined engine by the time I got home, and that feeling that if only I had followed my gut feeling not to risk such a long journey knowing all I knew about the Stags reputation. Such a lovely looking car completely spoiled by the mechanical engineering . This summed up British engineering at that time and why the Japanese were so successful , coming in with their bullet proof engines and superior engineering.
I LOVE the Stag! And I had an opportunity to see one in Brazil!
It wasn't a case of the Rover V8 not being available, it was a case of inter-marque rivalry between the two companies which meant that Rover did not want Triumph to get their (Rovers) V8. This was pretty well guessed at by petrolheads at the time, and proved some years later under the Freedom of Information act.
Definite, as Rover was ALREADY supplying the 3500 to Morgan by the time the Stag started shipping.
That played a part too. The problem with the Triumph V8 was the cooling system. That mainly with lazy owners who did not keep and eye on things as recommended by all motor manufacturers and some of the workshop entrusted to look after the cars. Seen lots of evidence pf that over the years. Invariably the poor cars get the blame.
@@bricefleckenstein9666 Rover also supplied Morgan with their excellent M/T series too I believe.
Gorgeous car, I remember in the 1970’s a yellow one would drive past me and my mates walking to school. We all wanted one. My brother had the Dolomite Sprint, it was fast but spent more time being repaired in the garage than he ever did driving it. Load of junk.
Superb analysis why the Triumph V8 engine---and thus the Stag itself---failed. I heard at the time from BL in the U.S. about the "engine overheating problem." What I never heard was why the engines were overheating. After all these years, you just explained it so that I now understand the issue. Thank you very much! Andy McKane, Hawaii, USA.
If Triumph had used Rover's 3.5 litre V8 the Stag would have been perfect without problems.
So well researched and very well produced historical video. Kept my interest right to the end. Such a shame the Stag didn't work as superbly as the Triumph Vitesse 6. My dad had one and I drove it aged 17 on passing my test. 62mph in 2nd; 85 in 3rd and 115mph in 4th didn't need a fifth gear. Twin Stombergs were a doddle to tune. The 6 cylinder engine was fantastic.
I much regret getting rid of my stag , with a few mods like fitting a rover SD1 V8 and Datsun half shafts it ran sweet for years
What a lot of comments!
My own contact with the Stag was as a young toolroom apprentice I was given the job of hand polishing the press tool for the boot lid with a carborundum block! It took several days.
The next contact 12 years later was with the slant 4 cylinder 2.0 16 valve in the Dolomite Sprint. To say by this time they had overcome the engine problems was a bit optimistic. It was a wonderful engine but all the cooling problems remained along with the cylinder head gasket. At the time a Ford Cortina water pump was less than £10 the Sprint one was £72. With its SU carbs on one side of the engine bay with no hot air feed and the exhaust manifold half buried under the block on the other side carburettor icing was a real problem on a damp January morning. It was at least 10 miles before the under bonnet temperature rose sufficiently to melt the carb ice. Until that happened the engine would simply not tick over.
Too low geared for comfortable 70 mph cruising along with horrendous wind noise. Like all BL cars of the era it rusted pretty quickly but it was nevertheless great fun to drive. I wish I still had it but I sold it to buy a Lotus 7. I wish I still had that too!
The Stag was always seen on the side of the road with its bonnet up
I had a blue Stag. Beautiful and fun with decent power and electric overdrive in 3rd and 4th gears, switched on the gearshift. I guess a previous owner or mechanic didn't take enough care. the hydraulic timing chain tensioner on one bank of cylinders was left locked in the maintenance position and not tensioning. Theslackness of the chain evidently wore the crankshaft sprocket and one time starting the engine the chain slipped and then grabbed again and forced all of the valves on one bank (4 cylinders) into the pistons, breaking valves and main bearing caps. Terrible. And the cylinder head being held on by bolts at one angle and studs with nuts at another angle made work difficult and put stresses on the head and studs. Pulled the engine and went through a tough repair.
All I can think of is Clarkson saying Staaaaaaggggg. I have a Staaaaaaggggg. :)
Beat me to it! 😅
You can F..K clarkson RIGHT off. Hes just a smug, arrogant and disgusting fossilised petrol head. Cant STAND him!
Real shame they didn’t use the Rover engine. They strangely made Triumph 2000’s for Aussie and South African markets using the Rover 3500 and called it the Triumph 3500. It was an amazing car....yes hindsight is a wonderful thing that’s true but why decide to use the Rover v8 in the overseas Triumph 2000’s but not put it in the Stag? So strange
Considering how few were made, quite a lot still on the road today. The engine rebuilt with care and mods is actually quite good.
Parked cars don't wear out.🙂
My dad has a 72 soft top navy stag. Drive chain broke one day, the shaft pulled it in and gutted the whole engine. Firing pins bent like wishbones, everything else understandably %&@$ed.
I would love to see and hear it back on the road, but apparently too much of a cash pit to be worthwhile.
What a shame. Stylistically the Stag was an absolute beauty.
I remember seeing a good many of them in south Texas where they were considered a luxury sports car. My sister owned a TR6 and it was a surprisingly reliable car, she performed her own services on the Triumph.
Well, Michelotti did his job as always. But as almost always in the 70s/80s - as soon as the Brits got their hands on the project, it was doomed to fail.
yes it was a beautiful looking car and the sound from the exhaust was unparalleled in a British car.
I've been curious about the Stag and it's development due to having a '71, SAAB 99 with the 1.7L four engine. It was a delightful unit until the head gasket problem hit it at about 70k miles. I did the work on it myself, had the cylinder head milled to retrue which was advised against by SAAB instructions. It had to do with creating slack in the cam chain as my guess and also the relationship with angled bolt passage clearance in the head. I had no more problems with the head gasket and went on to about 107k miles when apparently a piston broke. When I tried to remove the angled studs for the cylinder head, they wouldn't budge, corroded to the head I guessed. With other pressing things in my life at the time, I sold the car to a rebuilder. In talking to the local SAAB dealer, I understand they had to destroy some of the heads to get them off the engines.
Those angled head studs were just a genius design! I saw one in a shop once where they'd made little plasticine dams around the studs to hold something like WD40 and a block and tackle lifting the heads till the car was just off the ground. Every morning they'd add a little more lubricant. If the heads moved a little, you could get a hacksaw blade in to carefully cut them.
@@deaddoll1361 Love it...True genius !
Go get me the Triumph Stag timing belt, it's on the shelf right next to the muffler bearings.
Pick me up some blinker fluid while you’re there?
@@Pete-z6e, you want red or blue? the red is supposed to add 10hp.
Excellent; well researched and informative. Too bad such a lovely looking car did not use the Rover V-8 engine.
The engine if it is rebuilt properly can work
The stag was aĺlways a special, so cool car in the 70's and 80's! Even the motor trade in general loved It!
Interesting that the Hillman Imp had similar engine issues. And even Saab took their famous V4 engine from the Leyland engine production factory shelves.
This car should have been the pinnacle of British sports car production in the 70's and 80's!
The V4 in the Saab 96’s were Ford Germany.
My father worked in the Experimental Dept. at Triumph (Fletchamstead North) for many years. He told me that the 'T' bar fitted to the windscreen was a means of solving a severe scuttle shake on the prototypes. Very cleverly, it was then sold as a safety feature!
TRUE!!
It was reasonably popular here in Australia. A common sight on streets and in driveways up to the late 90s!
I purchased a second hand Stag back in the mid 70's, and it turned out to be a real dog. Beautiful sexy looking car, but it let me down too often. One Easter Monday I took it on a long run, parked up, and couldn't get it to start. Nothing open due to Bank Holiday, so had to abandon the car and take a train back home. The following day my stepfather came with me to sort out the vehicle. He was a very accomplished mechanic, but it was beyond him. Eventually, he had to tow me, and the rope kept snapping. What a disaster. We eventually got the car back to my garage, and he went home. I kicked that car so many times, my foot hurt. I told it that it would never let me down again, and it didn't . I got rid of it a few days later. Sad experience of what could have been a great car.
It is indeed beautiful. I have to guess British workmanship and quality did it in :)))) But I better watch the video.
Yepp. They even went with the Bond car but ... well ... it needs to also function as a car.
The first time I saw a photo of the Stag I was smitten. The car was just beautiful. I owned a Spitfire at the time. But being only 20 years old, there was no way that I could afford a Stag. I still want one.
Just saw a Triumph Stag recently and snapped photos, same brown colour as the one featured.
As a teenager I had no interest in cars until I saw the brochure for the Stag, I thought it was beautiful, the only car that turned my head. When I was old enough to buy one it was already clear that it was junk and out of production. Too bad.
Great video thanks a lot.
Nowadays you can make a Stag quite reliable and that doesn't mean using a Rover V8, which weighs less and upsets the Stag's handling unless further mods are done.
The engine was designed by Ricardo not Triumph. The 4 cylinder variant was initially made by Triumph for Saab but Saab eventually redesigned the engine and produced it in Sweden. It became the basis for Saab's later 16 valve designs.
Not so! The Triumph engine was designed by Lewis Dawtrey under Harry Webster's overall control. The Ricardo design was being developed with SAAB but they didn't have the funds to set up their own production line, so adopted the similar specification Triumph unit instead.
You're saying an engine which weighed less would upset the handling?
@@jamesengland7461 If you replace an iron block V8 with an all aluminium V8 which weighs substantially less, then the suspension should be tweaked. Unfortunately in the Stag's case it was very often not tweaked.
Mark, obviously incomplete work will not give good results
My dad had one of these with a hard top, painted Wedgwood blue. The dashboard design with its circular light cluster and its circles and segments motif is etched in my brain.
Another great one! Loved the archival photos of Triumph’s under development.
We get Triumphs decision to develop their four and V8 but had they not made so many mistakes in their appalling design and development, both engines could have formed a credible modern replacement for BL’s ageing engine lineup which comprised post WWII Austin/Morris fours and sixes and a GM cast off V8.
SAAB never suffered the same stigma despite starting with the same engine.
@Mark Wehner So sad that SAAB went the away. Can’t say I shed a tear for the mob who brought us the Marina and Allegro. They (mainly due to a lack of money, shocking management and labour) killed Rover and Triumph.
I bought a basket case Stag many years ago and fitter a Triumph 2500/6 cylinder in it, it worked fine and made me a profit.
British Leyland’s lethargy & insensitivity to quality with a very low level thinking amidst the employees killed the legends.
That's the public sector for you!
@@stevieframe Not really, the Lada Riva & Lada Niva were great cars, and while the Riva was based on a Fiat, it was significantly tougher than the Fiat. Socialism isn't the problem, rather Mediocracy is...
@@davidhollenshead4892 I perfectly respect your point of view. Very very true. ✊
During the '80s, where I worked we had a pretty young lady customer that drove a pretty red Stag. Her dad had it fitted with a Buick V6. It was rather rough and unrefined but at least it was relatively reliable. As for that 4-cylinder, a friend had one in his Saab, another had one in his TR-7, and they weren't so great either!