The LOST ROOTES GROUP PROTOTYPES! - Hillman Swallow, Capri Beating Avenger, Zimp And MORE!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video we explore one of the most incredible collapses of a major car company the Rootes Group which was once Britain's second largest car manufacturer. I show you some of the most amazing lost prototypes that were created by the company with incredible cars like Hillman Swallow, Avenger Coupe to revial the Capri and more! The Zagato Zimp and Sunbeam Venezia are also featured in this video.
I give you a history of how this empire began and how it ended including the Hillman Minx, Hillman Avenger, Hillman Imp, Audax Cars, Singer Vogue, Singer Gazelle, Humber Hawk, Humber Sceptre and more!
I have credited where possible these works are transformative.
Follow me on Instagram for more cool stuff: / tomisdrivingcars
Sources Table to be published in comments shortly:
Credits:
AROnline - Avenger Coupe, Liftback, Swallow and Slug
Practical Classics - Zagato Zimp
Imps4ever - Rootes Asp
If you'd like to read more my sources are linked below
Rootes Asp: www.imps4ever.info/protos/asp...
Avenger Coupe: www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-a...
Avenger Liftback:www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-a...
Rootes Swallow: www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-a...
Project Slug and Imp Prototypes: www.aronline.co.uk/cars/hillm...
Zagato Zimp: www.practicalclassics.co.uk/a...
Little Jim: anarchadia.blogspot.com/2009/... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I’m from Arizona in the United States and my first car was a 1957 Hillman Minx Estate that I bought for $25 in 1969. I got it running by replacing the clutch and I converted it from column shift to floor. I drove it to high school for a couple years until the engine died. It was most definitely the only one in the parking lot! 😎🌵👍🏼
How the mighty have fallen. Hillman cars were still a common sight on UK roads in the eighties. It’s almost as though there was a determination to destroy anything British. Whether by design of fate, that’s sadly what happened anyway.
We basically gave our car industry away
The unions were infiltrated by communists, that and a lack of investment post war. We could design innovational and good cars, we just couldn't couldn't built them, the unions saw to that.
The EU destroyed our car industry and it was deliberate so German, French and Italian would thrive
@@johnvanstone5336 We didn't join the EU, or the EEC as it was then until 1973. Our car industry was in decline long before then as this video clearly states. All thanks to the unions.
I think we can't dismiss the role that Mrs T played in that whole process. The TU movement had rolled over Ted Heath's Govt and the Tory party were not going to allow that again. Strongly Unionised industries ofcourse supported of the Labour Party. She famously said publicly that people didn't want to work in factories any more. My case rests.. Shit management and a volatile TU movement infiltrated by MI5 delivered the rest.
I like the Zagato Zimp… it makes me wonder If Giorgetto Guigario designed an Imp would it then be called the ‘Gimp’
I love it as well and maybe, I don’t see a problem with having that name 😂
An imp designed by Pininfarina....the Pimp
@@redmr2na ahh damn… I wish I’d have thought of that 😂
I like that one too. Really nice shape, reminds me of some of the classic Ferarri tourers.
Good old Chrysler, the unions and Super Mac, they all well and truly killed off an incredible company. It seems sad today that no one knows what my Humber Super Snipe, even when I first got the car in 2006 and broke down after it was serviced by an excellent chap that sadly died (the rubbish "Locust" condenser that might have come from either Italy or China failed after about 100 miles, thankfully I had the old one in the boot!) The AA man was looking for a Honda, with which he radioed into the control room to tell them it's a Humber a classic car, not a Honda. It has even been called a Hummer! It has even been called a Wolsley too. Great channel!
The Humber Super Snipe was a fabulous wafting cruiser of a car. It's 3 liter engine was smooth and powerful and a match for the other makes of that era, the Austin Westminster/Wolsey 110.& the Rover P5.
Nice one
Always wanted a Sunbeam Rapier as a young kid. The sloped back one. Two wee fins on the back lol.
I had a Hillman Imp as my first 4 wheel car when I was 17 years old. My Dad had a Sunbeam Talbot in the 1970s and I remember that a family friend had a 2 door Sunbeam coupe.
Well. Your first car was exceptional! And your dad had great taste
First 4 wheeled car is quite a statement these days… I’ve not seen a 3 wheeler in years.
my first car also at 17 was a HImp. pulled the 928cc engine block out of a breakers Chrysler Alpine and mated it to a Stiletto head and twin carbs + a Janspeed exhaust system. it went like a little rocket
Was the Sunbeam coupe an older model of the 60's or the last of the range with the large three piece rear window reminiscent of the American "Barracuda" that might have had the Holbay H120 engine?
Great content and research as ever. It amazing how miss management and a militant workforce collapsed the British motor industry
Take this As a compliment but your videos frustrate me when you think of how good the British car industry could have been. Great channel Tom .
I do! Thank you!
Nice video. The Italian style house (Zagato, Touring, etc) projects probably only ever had limited prospects due to the subjective styling and costs involved.
A more conspicuous absence perhaps is the “C” car, the big brother of the Avenger.
This car did go into production after it was designed and tooled in Coventry, albeit in France (and later Spain).
The UK version went right to the 11th hour, complete with full body tooling AND a fully tooled up, production ready V6 engine.
The French version had already been in production for over a year before the UK version (to be badged as a Humber at the very least) finally got cancelled.
All was not lost however, the resources were quickly rediverted to turn the car into the Australian Chrysler Centura, complete with adaptations for it to accept the cast iron straight 6cylinder 3.5 and 4.0litre engines.
Appreciate highly your effort Tom in registering British auto industry . It would be so kind of you to make a film about "Austin Gypsy" the forgotten rival of "Land Rover Defender".
Thanks, I appreciate it :) I’ll have a look into that further.
I agree this was truly a worthy challenger to the Land Rover in its day! We had one in the Civil Defense during the Cuban crisis in 62/3. In every respect it matched or was better than the Land Rovers Other than two, stiff gearchange and heavy steering!
@@tomdrives Austin Champ,not a civvy vehicle but very interesting,light years ahead in vehicle desighn.
1500 quid ex works to the taxpayer no purchase tax in 1950.
Flogged off for as little as fifty quid at ministry auctions. Mine had 25000 on the clock in 1972 and a Rolls desighned 2 8 litre engine not even run in. Do not de - coke cylinder head before 100 000, unheard of in those days. Alec Issegonis once again !
Absolutely excellent piece of work Tom.
Its a sad fact of British history how shortsighted senior management were from the 1960s into the 1980's.
One thing i do remember really well with regards to the Hunter was one of my friends Dads having what at first sight appeared to be a Hunter. It was E registered so would a 1966 or 1967 but badged as a Hillman Minx. Also remember it had round headlamps where as ours (J reg) had rectangular.
Thanks for covering Rootes, Hillman cars like Minx, Hunter & Imp / Imp Californian were a big part in my childhood back in 60's & 70's
Thank you Nick!
@@tomdrives I never realised the Chrysler Sunbeam shared door skins with the Avenger. I normally spot those things.
The Arrow range did bring out a base model called the Minx with round headlights. Only for a very limited period in this country but it was an overseas model!
If I remember correctly the mid 60s Hillman Minx that looked like the Hunter had a slightly smaller engine. This car continued to be made in Iran as the Paykan (Arrow) until quite recently when the government asked the maker to discontinue it because its fuel economy was poor by modern standards. The Coventry Museum of Transport has a Paykan made in about 2010. It could possibly still live on; a firm in Sudan bought the manufacturing tools with the intention to go into production.
My late father had one at the time 1967,it was a Whitbread company car ! Super cars, he always went for Rootes group cars having had a Minx previously,he went on to Avengers finishing with a Hunter for which he swopped a New Cortina with one of the younger sales staff for.
Learned to drive in a hillman hunter. Handbrake between door and seat. Drove the entire license test with the handbrake on! Policeman didn't see that, so I passed! Classic!
I'm here for the Chrysler Rootes Australia comments.
There are some very pretty cars here that never made it down under.
l had a 75 avenger and went to sydney in 1979 l never saw any avengers only hunters, were avengers sold in aussie
@@debeeriz Sold in OZ as the Centura , two models , 2L 4 cylinder or a Hemi straight big 6cylinder , which was quick but had garbage handling , competitor to the Cortina 6
@@bluemango7112 The Centura was based on the larger Chrysler 180 the Avenger wasn't sold in Australia although it was built in New Zealand and quite popular over there
I was just last week behind a Humber snipe in East Kilbride it was performing well petula said put a Chrysler sunbeam in your life and it will put a smile on your face my employer has a few garages on the Linwood site thanks again Tom for another wonderful and informative video greetings from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I saw a Chrysler Avenger estate the other day, of course I stopped and had a look round!
I bought a nearly new Peugeot 405 1.6GR 93K from your employer in Edinburgh. I actually met him in 2003.
@@Pmjs that would have been lochrin place if my memory serves me correctly that’s where I had my training I’ve met mr Clark there too
Wow! Thank you!
Loved my 2 hunters, a 1725 ally head 71 GL with twin chrome stripes and a 72 1500 sorry substitute after I bent the chassis on the first one.
Then a 1600 Hillman Avenger estate, think it was 72. Guess what. An eejit ran into mi front wing n bent the chassis. Got a sad replacement with a 1500 74 Avenger Estate. Same colour as the first lol.
Loved all of them. Easy to work on and reliable.
Absolutely love these ❤
Same here! They’re all truly special
Asp looks very much like scimitar ss1.... any connection?
It has connections to the Clan Crusader I’ve read.
Mum had an Aussie built Hunter Royal (l think you got plastic woodgrain dash in the Royal).
It was pretty quick downhill, she hit a roo one morning...
It drove like a crab after that.
Heyas Tom, as a newly married young guy our first car was the more upmarket Singer Chamois varient of the Imp. It was the Mk1 with the flat strip dash rather than the Super Imp round dials. It also had real wood trim too 😎 Mother in Law duly impressed 😎 Suffered the usual overheating if not careful but the opening rear window was a fortaste of the later Renault R16 we got. Cheers.
The Avenger liftback looks like my FIAT 128 3P
Aah the 128 3p, great car.
Omg the 128 3p. I had one of those back in 83/84. A 1979 Berlinetta in red with the black & white body stripes. I was between Rover's at the time. That little Fiat was fun but even at less than 5yr old had some quite serious rust issues in places one wouldn't expect.
Cool video!
Did you know in the early 1960s there was a planned shooting brake version of the Sunbeam Alpine? Only one photo of the prototype was taken and there are blueprints for but not much is known about it.
ASP looks very 'Elan'-esque
It does, it apparently inspired the Clan Crusader but more about that another time.
2:51 rear screen resembles that of the Ford Anglia and Classis.
Great video Tom ! That Zimp is a real looker.
Great video Tom👍. I was always intrigued why car makers would debut new designs in Venice, a city with no roads. It has fountains, statues, artwork and architecture but has never been a car domain. An Imp hatchback, a bit like the van then with a high floor which restricted what you could get in compared to the competition. The Sunbeam became the Horizon after a facelift when Chrysler took over didn't it? Your description of the fall of Roots neglects the Unions in the sum up, they played a BIG part in the demise of the British owned car industry.
Thanks David! There is so much more about the Imp, some real cool stuff from vans to full conversions into sports cars.
The Horizon's not really related to the Sunbeam at all. It's built on a shortened Alpine platform, which was designed by Simca in France, and is front-wheel drive, unlike the rear-wheel drive Sunbeam.
The strikes that effected Rootes most were the early one in the late 1950's with the loss of 50K production, & the new work force at Linwood over parity of pay with Coventry workers! They wanted the same pay before they had reached the same output of vehicles per hour as the Coventry assembly staff. Being ex-shipbuilders they knew how to be disruptive!
Venice is much larger than the parts that are on islands in the Venetian Lagoon.
The urban area is 90 km long and has an extensive road network.
Aside from that fact , it is a center for art and design.
Management under Chrysler were no better. I have a friend whose late father was chief mechanical engineer on maintainence at Linwood in The Seventies. Albert senior said it was not unknown for management to engineer a strike if production overseas was weak for one reason or another. This would be a good excuse to halt production.
Interesting videos of the demise of some great makes.. keep up the good work
Thanks Gerard, it’s a pleasure to make these videos
I was an apprentice modelmaker in the Rootes/Chrysler styling department from 1966-1970 there was the well known story inside of Rootes of a prototype Asp that was only held together with self tapping screws just as a look at model that one of the directors took his secretary out for a spin in through Coventry then when he got back he was told.
Well researched....very good and informative video
From the front the Asp looks like a William Towns Scimitar SS with a few more curves.
My father had a 67 Minx on an E plate which came with a starting handle, something he had to use more than once. It was replaced by 72 Imp which oddly had the bumper cut out for a starting handle but no corresponding hole in the bodywork behind for it to pass through to the engine. At least they didn't supply a useless handle.
Wonderful to learn more about this group i didn't even know before watching some of your videos
Glad you enjoyed!
I had a wonderful Sunbeam Alpine that had a bad engine. I asked my father to have the engine rebuilt and when I got back from a six plus month trip to Asia thanks to the United States Navy, I returned to an Alpine with a Coventry Climax v-6 engine. That was short-lived as it was crashed by someone who lived in Washington. I lost a wonderful vehicle that I was hoping that it would be my car for many years.
Another great videoTom, Thanks
Thanks Stuart, glad you enjoyed it.
You are cracking on these history videoes Tom.You deserve the success. 👍
Glad you like them!
The Venetzia looks amazing, one of my favourite toy cars was a Corgi Imp complete with opening rear window
As far as I'm aware, the Avenger was designed as a platform that would go on to be the basis of many different models, including the liftback. They'd then design new bodies to sit on top of the platform as the years went on and fashions changed. Despite being an idea years ahead of its time, and basically being how the car industry operates today (e.g. the VW group's various platforms), it never actually happened except for the Sunbeam.
We all know who to blame for that CHRYSLER the worst thing too happen to a British company since the German bombings in the early 40's
Another great video
Thanks Ian! Glad you enjoyed.
Gr8 work tom keep it up 👍
fascinating Tom
Thanks Chris
Hatch back Imp with engine in the boot, wonder why that never made it 😂
The unions had a large part to play in the demise of the British car industry, a fact that is never reported on
Well…
The exact opposite of the objective truth, fascinating.
.Great review , I am a big fan of the Rootes group cars. It's a shame that strike action and bad Government direction reacted a fantastic company.. Cheers Bob
That Venezia is a good looking car until you see the front. That grille and headlight treatment, what on earth…
Read the Swift before being discarded was to be developed from an upscaled Swallow platform featuring six-side windows and a V8 from a doubled-up Swallow engine to replace the Humber Super Snipe. However the Rootes company were only in a position to develop the Arrow at most and a few within the company recognising they could not compete with BMC, were pondering carving out a BMW-like premium niche and discontinue a number of marques.
When Chrysler became involved all ideas of the Swift and Swallow were scrapped as they did not understand the idea of highly complex engineering when you could get away with basic stuff! They were still building separate chassis and bodies that were joined with 6 bolts, and very crude V8 engines that were very under-powered for their size!
The abandonment of Swift and Swallow preceded Chrysler, when the latter took over Rootes they allowed them to push through with the B Car (Avenger) and the C Car (180). Yet not the 180 V6 nor allowing the Avenger engine to feature OHC like intended.
The Hillman Hunter was an attractive alternative to the Cortina etc and was generally a reliable car
I think quality was beginning to lapse. I remember reading a long term test in, I think, Motor magazine in which the rear shock absorber erupted through the wheel arch! I can also remember an Arrow based Minx my parents' friends had being rather austere, cheap and flimsy feeling, whereas my uncle's Super Minx based Humber Sceptre was a lovely thing.
I actually saw a Mk 2 Superminx this lunchtime! You could see the build quality was better than the Arrow cars.
My father had an H Minx (1970). The sills were rotting by 1975.
Hade a hillman imp stiletto ,fast back NOB 83F first car ,twin carb ,racing green brilliant little car
Humbers were lovely cars . 🚙
@ 05:24. 'I want to keep my job, so let's all not go to work!' I don't understand?
I own two Imp varients , Imp Sport and Sunbeam Stiletto. Both are getting some tlc right now, ready for the summer.
The Stiletto is my dream Imp variant. Brilliant
@tomdrives I keep getting people wanting to buy it. The answer is always no!
I really enjoy both cars, and our Avenger too. I would love a Tiger but don't have the funds
@@colrhodes377sounds like you’ve got some impressive cars to go with your immaculate taste
@tomdrives The Imp belonged to my neighbour, and he sold it to me about ten years ago. The Stiletto, I found in somebody's backyard while knocking on the door for directions. It was in a state, and the woman said to take it away before the scrapman took it. Two years later, it was on the road. The Avenger I have has since I was 17. I never had the heart to let it go. It's 1250DL, so nothing special, but it is to me.
@@colrhodes377 special is subjective though and the story of a car and its owner sticking together for years is a special one. Great collection!
What's with the door handles on the Swallow? I wonder why they are mounted so low...
Great Cars Rootes Cars I wish I owned all of them which I still want to own them all
Rootes cars always seemed old fashioned to me when I was growing up in the 1970s. A shame the Italian designs were dropped. They could have changed that image.
I think so too re the Italian designs, Triumph saloons didn’t do too bad thanks to the added flair
Swift Swallow / Skoda Estell
I saw that as well
Great video 👍 Love the zagato cars ,the imp California was a engineer's project not a management 😊
Thanks Sean
It originally was designed with an opening rear window but cost restrictions prevailed and rendered it rather impractical! So its sales were not as good as originally thought they would be! Yet another bad management decision! as the profit on it was higher than the saloon!
The Venezia looked nice, shame about the front.
Definitely, I never liked upright grilles on anything bar Rolls, Rover or Mercedes.
I had an avenger tiger what a car best car I ever bought
A friend bought a Hunter at Tewkesbury auctions. Couldn't find the handbrake (it's on the RIGHT of the driver's seat). Whilst I was looking he jumped in my XR3i with his girlfriend and drove off. So little petrol in the tank that i spent an hour driving round the one way system in Gloucester looking for a petrol station.
The R429 looks suspiciously similar to the Mitsubishi Colt Galant of the era, I believe there were some connections with Mitsubishi, and Dodge sold a version of the Colt.
I used to be good friends with DavidHodkin’s son David also a talented engineer
Its pronounced Asp to rhyme with rasp. From the word for snake. I don't know who told you it was to be front engined as I always understood it to use the standard rear transaxle and suspension of the Imp.
Avengers were produced in Argentina I think, as Dodge's, some had a 2 litre engine I believe.
I think they were badged as the Plymouth Cricket in the USA ?
@@bigvinny333 See 0:22
fascinating stuff.
the Swallow has more than a passing resemblance and format to the Tatra 613. its good that Rootes didn't persue it because rear powered cars were getting close to the end of their time.
Rootes-Chrysler had the gorgeous but widely forgotten competitor for the Capri called the Sunbeam Alpine/Rapier, spanning 1967-1976 and based on the Arrow platform. a cousin had the Rapier H120 which was both a lovely machine to be in and quite rapid for its day. I'd have one given the chance.
if the ASP had come into production it would have been like an Imp derived cross between a Lotus Elite & Elan even running a version of the same Coventry Climax engine as the Elite. I wonder if the ASP was the inspiration behind the Clan?
Tatra! That’s a name I haven’t heard for ages, completely forgot about them. I remember reading about the 700 and of course their take on a supercar.
@@tomdrives they really were something special and far ahead before the Iron Curtain entrapped them. if you research them (carefully lol) you'll see how Porsche liberated their engineering and combined it with Béla Barényi''s 1925 design for the KdF-Wagen/VW Beetle
It was the inspiration for all the IMP based sports cars -- Ginneta G15, Clan Crusader, Daverian, etc. Had the ARP been produced it would have cleaned up the small sports car market whether it had a steel body or fiberglass, as the Lotus Elan was fiberglass as the Elite before it!
@@johnmoncrieff3034 yes the Elite and Elan composite structures were the carbon fibre of their day. the Ginneta G15 & Daverian are really good looking cars.
The fastback cars were nice looking with the pillarless windows. The H120 was good but was still 1725 albeit with twin Weber dcoes. What it really needed was a V6 to tackle the 2 and 3 litre Capris.
I can remember these cars when growing up and its just another British car company with bad management and bad builds poor quality you do alot of research and work to make the videos on u tube but they are great to watch and i enjoy every single one you have done mate 👍
Union agitators, possibly underwritten by the Soviet Union were a major factor in the destruction of the British manufacturing industry in the 1950s to the 1970s, The companies disappeared, the workers lost their jobs and the Socialist Union bosses continued on destroying things.
When talking about the Swallow you mention 'government intervention' placing Rootes under pressure? What did you mean?
I’d watch my full potted history of Rootes. The government forced them to build the Imp in Linwood instead of near Ryton. That resulted in financial and logistical pressure.
@@tomdrives Thank you.
@@tomdrives The Wikipedia article skates over the issue. It says Hillman had to build a new factory for the Imp. But the way it is phrased is the government helped them to do this not the government forced them to do it and helped with money. Another example of Wikipedia's poor editing.
At the time the government was concerned about unemployment in the Scottish coalfields, so there were financial incentives to establish new factories there. In addition to the Rootes Linwood plant, there was a BMC truck plant building the FG range. Nobody forced Rootes to go there, but like others they took the money but underestimated the difficulties of retraining semi-skilled ex-miners to undertake different work.
One thing that is never talked about is Chryslers ties to Mitsubishi during the 70's. How many of Chrysler Rootes Group cars and Chrysler in the UK and France was destined to be destroyed by such an alliance with Mitsubishi. They had no long term vision of their own when it came to producing small cars.
chrysler can't say anything about the Asp when they make poundland Bentleys
Missed opportunities if ever there was-sad!
I agree
OMG I own a Hillman hunter back in the 80s, this car surpassed the fords that I owned, yes it ranked higher on the worst cars I have ever owned list of shame. Oh well a bit of amusing history. Next we'll see a BYD Super Electric Minx
I knew of a the Hillman Valenzia in the 1970s a friend of my brother had one and this in Sydney Australia l don't know what happened but he bought it and to register the Velenzia he told the RTA it was from South Australia because 1n 1970 there was there was no cooperation between South Australia and N.S.W and l went to South Australia a couple of times and l got caught for speeding once got of with a warning and have two unpaid parking tickets from South Australia
Locally assembled Hilman Hunters were a common sight on the streets of Tehran at the time of the Islamic revolution.
That Venezia was gorgeous!
Car giant Jensen?
The vauxhall firenza lokked like the hillman cars ,is it a coincidence that other canned English marques would look like newer GERMAN INFLUENCED comp. cars....
Akin to the devil and Jesus, Jesus was creator but the devil was a COPYCAT
🥝✔️
Thanks Dean!
Let's just be honest...the the unions killed the auto industry in the U.K. with their constant strikes and shoddy workmanship by their members!!
The Rootes cars of the '60s and '70s were pretty stodgy. Worthy but dull. The Imp was a disaster, being rear engined at a time when that format was being abandoned and lethal in heavy rain or snow, it was also very badly made in a new plant in Scotland. The Avenger was not bad but the Hunter was very boring. There was a two door Hunter coupe called the Rapier but it was very unexciting. I learned to drive on an Imp and it was OK to drive but really was a ladies shopping car. I had two Avenger 1300s as company cars. Nice to drive but the engines were rough and misfired in heavy rain and burned out exhaust valves if driven for any length of time over 70mph. We yearned for better cars from Rootes/Chrysler/Talbot but they never came.
The missed opportunities of British vehicle manufacturers makes me really frustrated. That Zimp would have sold, it would have been loved. Clueless suits in the boardroom should have been booted out.
Being old I can remember all of this stuff and it truly annoys me the way that the people running all of these companies they wanted easy money the Germans invested in there companies and still have them ok there was a problem with the unions but in the 60s we made everything cars bikes washing machines computers the list goes on and on the only thing that we do well seems to be Banking making more money for already well off people we sold off all of our people owned things like water gas electric all transport and all into the hands of mostly pension companies all over the world who just screw every penny they can out of us this country is a JOKE
The workers were their own worst enemies, they were well paid, but destroyed their company by constantly striking.
Think they sold Hunters to Iran or Iraq for years after they stopped producing them here. They were popular as taxis.
They did, I made a full video on it’s story as well
most of Britain's car makers had very poor/incompetent management.
Your introduction makes it sounds like Chrysler took some gem and drove it off a cliff. The company was in trouble when Chrysler got there. They didn’t have sufficient development, money, same as British Leyland. They needed a larger parent.
Chrysler tried to import RG cars to the United States, but the quality sucked. It couldn’t compete with Datsun and Toyota.
If rootes contribution to the product and sales volume was more comparable to Simca, things might have been different - but they were theweak link
I’m a big fan of the cars, but that’s the truth as I see it
Good sturr but please be reminded that incredible means not credible.
?
Lost for a good reason I'd say?! Lol