"Degrowth" is the ultimate luxury belief. I live in an African country and poor people here live lives of destitution. Anybody who supports this crazy idea has never seen real poverty.
Maybe if everyone stopped churning out babies like a factory, there would be more resources to go around. Additionally, less labor availability generally equates to higher per hour wages.
@@barkmaker Umm, we have a negative birth rate at this moment. There are more migrants coming to the USA than there are Americans being born, so, maybe we should stop the mass migration first before we are expected to become the Hand Maiden's Tale... Just a thought...
I've seen American poverty which on scale next u that looks wealth. I have a an understanding of ur poverty but I haven't witnessed it or been around it. These ideas come from folks here that have no clue how the world works or the genuine suffering of people around this planet. They think thier Netflix not loading fast enough is oppression
Oh don't you worry it is for you too. Pretty sure USA, Europe, Australia and a few others must degrow the most. They are the major reason for the shit that we are getting into in the first place. The largest consumers of resource and energy in the world per person.
To your point, these monsters also want to abolish or reduce rice crops across the world “coz methane.” Most likely due to the fact that over 3 billion people depend on that foodstuff for their survival.
Instead of being political activists for controlling other people's lives, the degrowth activists should change their own lives: live off grid, make their own clothes, grow their own food, build their own shelters, give up the amenities of modern life, etc. That way they live by the standards demand for others live and show that they can do more than just virtue signal.
Remember, the occupy Wall Street protest where people were angry that there was inequity? on the daily show when it used to actually be good, correspondent went out and asked the activists who claimed they wanted everybody to be equal if they would let other people use their iPad. Things got awkward, really quick, ha ha. They’re the most privileged hypocrites ever.
Tell me about how many countries developed without government interference? TELL ME HOW MANY DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ARE NOT STRONG STATES, DICTATORSHIPS AND EMPIRES???
if you were to actually grow as much food as possible, then you would simply deplete the land of all resources that allow food to grow. A.K.A bye-bye food growth in 20 or so years
@@jentewillems6725 which is why most, if not all organic gardeners, replenish the soil regularly with organic material every year after the growing season ends. It’s the only way to keep the soil sustainable and healthy. Ever seen anyone fertilizing a forest?
Except for the "no children" part, this sounds like how serfs lived in the dark ages (fall of Rome til about 800 AD). Later on, medieval peasants had better lives than that (not all peasants were serfs).
@@martabachynsky8545If people want to have no children, that is their choice. Let people choose what they want as long as they don't impose those restrictions on others.
@@crissd8283 People are free to choose to have no children if they wish, although it's a bad thing in the long run (look at China's one child policy). I was just pointing out that having to live in a tiny house with no modern stuff (e.g. plastic, cars) and not being free to travel was how serfs lived.
You seem to be implying that these activists practice what they preach. The hypocrisy in the environmental movement rivals that of televangelist celebrity preachers.
No need to travel. There's lakes, rivers, or oceans near most population centers and you won't generally get arrested for filling your pockets with rocks before going swimming.
@@mustang607 Yeah, "give up and die so your betters (us) can continue our lavish lifestyle and not have to feel guilty about it" Of course they could go after China, but they know they'd be laughed out of the room &/or stuffed into a forced labor camp... This is what happens when you make your society soft: wacko commies think they can talk you into killing/sterilizing yourself, giving away all your property, etc and they keep a straight face the entire time. In any other point in history they'd be driven out of polite society, but we have way too many of the inmates running the asylum... The good news is the WEF are a laughing stock, so they are failing. It's just scary they ever thought they had enough socio-political capital to ever propose such nonsense in the first place.
I still wouldn't join them, but I would at least respect them if they decided to embrace the asceticism they demand of others and live simple low footprint lives. Not one practices what they preach.
@@Xiuhtec That's an interesting point. Back in the 1970s, some people embraced asceticism. Not too many stayed that way, but at least they were practicing what they preached.
Of course they wouldn't come on your show. They don't want to debate, they want to pontificate. Get the faithful all riled up to "affect change" by any means possible.
Exactly. All these young Marxists wouldn’t give up just their phones, let alone all the other benefits of capitalism they enjoy. They have no concept of the consequences of what they are striving for.
@@Grayald John Stossel has been in journalism longer than that clown has been alive. In fact, Stossel is one of the most accomplished journalists in America, by far. He has been at his craft for many decades and worked in many of the largest news bureaus in the world. Laughable that this a--hat would turn down Stossel.
If they want to reduce the human population, they need to reduce the number of females. This is the technique they us to control populations in the wild. They allow hunters to take male specimens without hurting the numbers at all; it's the number of females that determine a species growth!! But the Left keeps promoting females; it's like they really don't know what the heck they're doing, or they're stupid!!!
The conclusion was correct. Those that have benefitted from generations of growth now have the leisure time to obsess about nature. Those battling it every day just to survive actually hate nature. The current activists you see are grifters. Look at their presentations, hipster fashion, hair product, salesmen in air conditioned auditoriums on university campuses...taking flights from speaking gig to speaking gig. Speaking to the pampered children of surface dwellers of Metropolis while ignoring the gangs of laborers sweating below. They are as removed from the antigrowth nature they promote as they can be. The forester cutting trees, the hunter shooting deer and the farmer growing crops are much closer and more in tune with the natural world these fake scholars say they promote.
You're just shooting the messenger. There's finite resources and you have people promoting infinite growth. This ends one of 2 ways: we descend into chaos as the competition for resources reaches a breaking point or since humans have the the intelligence to make long term decisions we can manage our own population to prevent collapse. A good microcosm to represent this is locusts, once the grass hopper has over populated they mutate into cannibals.
@@KBergs so if you propose less use, consumption and negative growth....I'm open minded to an example to study...you go first. We'll watch. You can bang out your experiences on hollow log drums. We'll write up the results, but you'll never know about it in your hide lodge in the wilderness. In reality the 'movement' is about these fuzzy wuzzies not knowing their place and remaining poor and downtrodden forever so your mommy can say, eat up, there are starving children in China.
It is typical moronic empty virtue signalling from people who will always tell others to do as they say, and not as they do. Like listening to a billionaire tell people to eat bugs, while he eats beef at a conference he flew to in his private jet.
But think of the utopia the beneficiaries will inherit after getting the population down to 5% of current levels. This is about reducing suffering. It is better to have never lived than to live in misery and poverty. The Earth can support 500,000 Oprahs
They applaud in the conference center, wearing their designer clothing, speaking through a sound system, scrolling on their phones.....and condemn the capitalism responsible for all of it.
Norberg showed up and answered questions. NO degrowth advocate was willing. *THAT* tells you everything you need to know about the strength of their arguments and if they even believe in themselves.
It is a cult of death-worshipers, coming from both the old German left and right, the Frankfurt School and the Nazis. Philosophical descendants of Kant, Nietzsche and Rousseau. An irrational blend of Freud and Karl Marx (the prince of the muddle-heads). Capitalism is the only way for humans to live. Men are rational beings in that they survive by volitionaly using their conceptual faculty (mind). If they choose not to utilize this faculty, they will suffer and eventually fail to produce what they need to survive. Man's environment is man made, to make his environment requires reason. Man cannot live without his mind, man can not live without his production. Thought is individual, not collective. All people work to satisfy their own desires/values (which may include the happiness of their children, for example). They will not work for anything or anyone else. They destroy all means and all incentives for production. Instead, they promote theft. The Frankfurt School and German-originating leftists want death for all because they failed (including their socialist/communist utopian system) and are bitter and cynical. The old German right wants to rekindle their movement by exploiting their old, previously exiled in the USA, adversaries' ascent by presenting a false alternative. They are all statists and death-worshipers. Subjectivist disintegrationists or collectivists authoritarians. Anti-growth, Anti-capitalism = Anti-human life = death worship. For example, if they believed in global warming, climate change or even in pollution, they would have been pushing for Nuclear power plants decades ago. Instead, they promoted "solutions" that do not work on purpose, to cause degrowth, poverty and starvation.
And who is getting paid good money to do so. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't do those speeches for free. Rants against the very system that allows him to earn the living he has...
If they can stop capitalism, they think they will be in charge. Running gulags and re-education camps, hosting politburo events for the central committee, running factories printing hammer and sickle flags, and all that good stuff all properly left thinking Maoists and Stalinists love.
There are no such countries currently. Capitalism is everywhere, it has successfully infected the whole Earth for some time now. You will not find a country that does not use money and corporations. There are leaders in some countries who would LIKE to be non-capitalist, but it's mainly just verbal, just talk. A desire, an aspiration . But in practice, in reality, there are no such countries.
They always seem to come out of the Western Academia cesspool. You don't ever hear any scholars from any African country speaking like this. Those people always talk about the need for prosperity and modernization.
That's a pretty low deplorable standard. This is my first video of this channel and the whole video is outright lies, leaps in logic and loose associations.
It's called dismissiveness. They don't argue the point. I posted on one message board about Stossel's video about a Leftist promoting climate change who was later proven wrong but was lifted up by climate enthusiasts. The person replying to me just said Stossel had slanted right-wing stories even though the story was about a Leftist.
or any river town along the ohio that blew up in the late 1800s and then became desolate. their ideas are driven by ideology, this does not help anyone to go in reverse.
A very refreshing point of view. This is what you don't hear in the media and that is a shame. The Covid-19 analogy was a very good example. Many small companies went bankrupt. People became depressive, etc. etc. So, yes capitalism is the only way to get people out of poverty. It is also gives the consumer the freedom and power to decide of what to buy and not.
The smug, privileged professor. Big salary. Home in nice location near parks, bike paths and public transportation. Commutes 15 minutes to get to work. Promotes high gas taxes to "save the environment" and encourages use of public transportation. Those poorer than him have to commute three hours a day to work on public transportation but can't afford a car plus all the penalty fees. I would totally support this if these privileged promoters, proved their dedication and integrity by quitting their cushy jobs and go work for Walmart, a restaurant or clean hotel rooms. I want them to experience coming home in the dark, going straight to bed and doing it all again the next day.
You know public transportation is only awful in America, I don't know how you people managed to fuck it up. How did the rest of the world figure it out but not you? Are you all stupid so you just can't figure it out Or could it be that the automobile industry doesn't want good public transportation because it would cut into their profits.
G@nder is really a sublime and beautiful part of nature like forests, rainbows, or birds singing. This is a classic example of how Far Left extremism is bad for nature.
I am a staunch capitalist but I very strongly agree with some of what these people are saying. I'm in America, I'm surrounded by people who spend every waking second of their entire lives being CONSUMERS, instead of being HUMAN BEINGS. They don't just work to secure the necessities of life, they don't work just to get a very comfortable, secure life, they bend the duration of their entire existence to grasping and scrabbling in a lifelong rampage of consumption, making themselves mentally and physically sick with their excess, never enjoying what they have and being content with that, as soon as one luxury has been shakily secured, they are not content enjoying it, they have already forgotten what so newly came into their hands, and are already feeling the discontent of not having the next biggest and newest thing. A billionaire was asked "why do you keep doing business, you already have more money than you could spend in 500 lifetimes, what does all this money mean to you that you keep going for more?" His answer: "the money is just a way to keep score." And that's where Americans are at, endlessly consuming, always grasping and gobbling, addicts of consumerism who are never sated, never able (or willing) to stop, put in the work and examine themselves.
I agree that there is a lot of consumerism going on. People with low self esteem and a defective set of moral values will spend money on things that others would consider a ridiculous waste of their time and energy. Tattoos comes to mind for me. Advertising has taken the driver’s seat over a sound philosophy of life. Way back in 1956, Journalist Vance Packard wrote a slim book called “The Hidden Persuaders”, an exposé of the advertising industry. People are essentially brainwashed into buying things without even consciously knowing what motivates them. This should have been the conclusion of “The Feminine Mystique”, but Friedan missed it entirely and went on a spree of speculation. An insidious aspect of the tweaking of our free market system comes from the War on Poverty. Give people the security of money to spend that they did not earn, and they can make monetary decisions that run contrary to nature. True Capitalism must remain honest to the dictates of nature for people to be properly motivated. If a government wants to spend the money of people who produce the wealth of a nation on people who do not produce wealth, they can always find a way to do so.
Yes, there is certainly room to criticize consumerism, but its ridiculous to start advocating for everyone to become poor as a solution. It's an attitude that can only exist from the rich first-world people who have never experienced true hardship. It's a view that could only come from the highly privileged.
Most Americans live, act, work, make homes and families quite contrary to your caricature, but this caricature does allow you a hollow sanctimony. Rather than sitting around with your friends exchanging silliness why not get out into the world, even live in foreign countries for a time, and discover how wilfully stupid you are to common sense? Your gross caricatures and naive notions will fall under experience.
It's funny how the crowd demonizing "consuming more stuff" is the same crowd that turned literally everything into disposable junk that doesn't last even if we wanted it to. "Make sure you buy the new iPhone every year." *Makes all your appliances grenade after 5 years. That's literally why they are pushing battery cars. When the battery in the car dies out of warranty, 95% of EVs will be totaled. "Perfect, more sales!"
There are acres & acres of EV cars & bikes/scooters in the trash heap in China, cars will be like cordless drills & other tools or implements in time, in every house & garage
Not true, I’m one of the poorest people I know and certainly far from pampered. I don’t hate capitalism either. John painted degrowth people with a very broad brush that was not accurate.
@@barrym2112 Give me a break! You're watching TH-cam videos on a computer. You are NOT one of the "poorest people." And you don't have sense enough to see that the computer you are using, the electricity that runs it, the house you live in, and everything about your life is the result of the growth you deplore. Go live a few years in a shack in the slums of some city in Africa or Asia and then come back and tell us how much you hate economic growth pulling people out of poverty.
@@barrym2112 If you're so poor, how do you have a computer/phone with viable internet connection to watch this? I don't buy your little astroturfed sob-story.
The degrowth position _really_ needs some steelmanning. I'm not very familiar with the position, but my brain is just screaming "everyone here is beating on a strawman".
@@CCoburn3 So you're saying everyone capable of talking to you at all is disqualified from supporting degrowth because they're "too rich". Nice. Don't disqualify people unless you can - and do - talk to the people who aren't disqualified.
I work with some of these nutters who say we should "end capitalism" and punish economic growth and profit. What's true of 100% of them? They didn't grow up poor. They have no experience of poverty or deprivation, in their whole lives. If you grew up poor and pulled yourself out of poverty - e.g. you're the first in your family to buy a home, have a degree, go on vacations - you know how important it is to have opportunities that you can walk right up and take yourself instead of watching them be given to elite party members and cronies in a centrally-managed economy.
Look at them in their expensive clothes talking about degrowth. They can run naked in the forest and live like an animal if they want to. Let’s see how long they last.
I’m 1000% sure that they have never done a hard days labor or gotten their hands dirty once in their lives. They haven’t done a thing in their entire existence to better this world.
This is old news. Two sides of the same "coin"; Capitalism/Communism. You were warned long ago. An individual tried to stop them but the entire world fought against him.
This is completely the opposite of what the reality is. The people who benefit the most from some circumstance, become the most invested in said circumstance, so they are the people who are most likely to defend what got them to their position of advantage, and are the people who are least likely to take any critique. What you wrote shows utter lack in understanding of psychology, reinforcement, motivation and all the related concepts, that allows you to understand how people and organisms in general learn and function.
"To the Rockefellers, socialism is not a system for redistributing wealth - especially not for redistributing their wealth -but a system to control people and competitors. Socialism puts power in the hands of the government. And since the Rockefellers control the government, government control means Rockefeller control." --Gary Allen Files
@@mitkoogrozevThe people who benefit most from capitalism can't believe that they could possibly be so well-off without subjugating others, so they believe they're subjugating others and spend lots of money paying others to confirm that belief. Plus, their parents teach them to respect university professors, and their university professors constantly rail against capitalism (of course they do; academics usually benefit from communism).
One thing is for sure is I have never heard of a poor person be anti-capitalist, anti-growth or any other rhetoric against what ability to better their lives. These people are rich, greedy, self-centered individuals who are more than set for the rest of their lives and want it all for themselves, end of story.
They are confusing capitalism with consumerism. The Amish are anti-consumerist who grow their own food, drive environmentally friendly vehicles, are well living the degrowth dream by um growing stuff.
That people on the political left have a certain set of opinions, just as people do in other parts of the ideological spectrum, is not surprising. What is surprising, however, is how often the opinions of those on the left are accompanied by hostility and even hatred. Anyone who studies the history of ideas should notice how much more often people on the political left, more so than others, denigrate and demonize those who disagree with them - instead of answering their arguments. In a sense, the political left’s attempts to silence ideas they cannot, or will not, debate are a confession of intellectual bankruptcy. The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive. The political left has never understood that, if you give the government enough power to create ‘social justice,’ you have given it enough power to create despotism. Millions of people around the world have paid with their lives for overlooking that simple fact.” The whole political vision of the left, including socialism and communism, has failed by virtually every empirical test, in countries all around the world. But this has only led leftist intellectuals to evade and denigrate empirical evidence. The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom - whether black or white - who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior. No one can really understand the political left without understanding that they are about making themselves feel superior, however much they may talk piously about what they are going to do to help others. Facts are seldom allowed to contaminate the beautiful vision of the left. What matters to the true believers are the ringing slogans, endlessly repeated. Darwinian adaptation to environment applies not only to nature but also to society. Just as you don’t find eagles living in the ocean or fish living on mountain tops, so you don’t find leftists concentrated where their ideas have to stand the test of performance. Wherever you get enough far left people in power, you can find a similar willingness to force everyone into collectivist conformity at all costs. The left is not necessarily aiming at totalitarianism. But their know-it-all mindset leads repeatedly and pervasively in that direction, even if by small steps, each of which might be called ‘micro-totalitarianism.’ What socialism, fascism and other ideologies of the left have in common is an assumption that some very wise people-like themselves-need to take decisions out of the hands of lesser people, like the rest of us, and impose those decisions by government fiat. Although the big word on the left is ‘compassion,’ the big agenda on the left is dependency. The more people who are dependent on government handouts, the more votes the left can depend on for an ever-expanding welfare state. The greatest moral claim of the political left is that they are for the masses in general and the poor in particular. That is also their greatest fraud. It even fools many leftists themselves. No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk. What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates vastly more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it. ~Thomas Sowell
Don't think for a minute they will be the ones to shift to a 'post-capitalist' economy or participate in 'degrowth'. They want to impoverish everyone else, but not themselves. They are evil.
Yes - JUST like all those who go to davos ... on jets... cars AND helicopters. They'd have bit more credence IF they ZOOMED all their meetings but I don't see that happening any time soon. Liars and hypocrites. Sitting with their heads in the clouds.
That's really idiotic. Do you know what rich means? It's a term that's the opposite of poor, and by definition, the richer you are the more resource and energy you use. They are the people who are least likely to want de-growth. They are the most rewarded individuals in our growth based global economy, and as such they are the most invested, which means they are the least likely to want to give it up. If you listen to Musk, Bezos, Gates, politicians in power etc. all those rich pricks say they WANT growth. They want the population to keep going up and up, and that de-growth is bad. You can find almost direct quotes from them.
It's amusing that Parrique said that Stossel is "nowhere near my standards of rigorous journalism so I'll pass.". More than likely, he knows that Stossel is one of the few true journalists left who will actually ask him hard questions and bring up evidence to show that degrowth is detrimental to the planet.
You would think he would want to reach as many people as possible in order to "save the planet". It's almost like he only wants certain people in certain groups to hear him.
Additionally these people want everyone to be dependent on Socialist Parties for their existence. Just like the model in the old USSR, Maoist China and today's North Korea. Utopia on Earth !!!
If growth is so great, why are Americans so broke? High economic growth much of the last 10 years, and people are still broke and in debt, even before the pandemic. Save nothing, buy everything is good for the economy but financially exhausting for individuals.
I strongly urge you to leave this channel since this is a mixing pot of capitalist propaganda! Degrowth is not about uniformly stopping economic growth; it is about reversing economic growth in the richest countries, growing some in the poorest and decreasing inequality in a safe, just and equitable way, all while decreasing the overall economy of the world. The process is meant to be agreed-upon by many!
This channel is some of the worst journalism out there, and THAT is why the people chose not to respond. They do NOT want to have their arguments misconstrued and twisted, which is why they chose not to participate.
Probably because those very people are being victimized by poor economic policies in their region by the same people who think degrowth is mandatory. They have lost hope.
They are not (usually) the same people. Those who think that degrowth is mandatory are likely to be in the proletariat, while those who are creating the neoliberal policies are (at least almost) always in the bourgeoisie.
They could bring back the more queer practices of some of the indigenous humans that were historically oppressed. We could have a rise of woke cannibalism.
That millennial that’s talking about pandemics being good , someone should take away all the luxuries he has and see how good life will be when he actually has to practice what he is preaching 😮😢
There’s a reason tyrants always try to keep their people in poverty. When you’re struggling just to survive, it’s harder to fight an uphill battle to take back your freedom.
Hilarious that none of them would face John Stossel. The one guy said he's not a good enough journalist. No one has heard of him, yet John Stossel is one of the greatest journalists of my time.
I think degrowth ties back to build back better. The reason for degrowth is so they make it sound like it's necessary when it's in fact inevitable due to decades of deficit and money printing. A way of avoiding accountability for their failed fiscal policies.
They could also be anti-immigration, cause you know if the country sucks like California, then every one would just leave. Just allow poor people to steal under $700, legalize drugs & then get Russia to back the anti-fa occupy movements like they did in the Ukraine to reduce both population & growth.
New rule: if you want to suggest implementing a drastic solution like degrowth in public, you first have to try it by yourself in an isolated location for a minimum of three years without outside assistance of any sort - just to see if you're still hot on the idea when you look like Christian Bale in The Mechanic.
I want to say to all these degrowth people, " You first!" Give up all you have, don't have children, and don't even try to live longer. You can save the planet! More for the sane people.
You’re exactly right. They could make the ultimate statement and lead by example. But all they do is talk. Maybe earlier generations fumbled the ball when it came to the environment, but have these ‘new wave’ hippies of today picked it up? Based on what we’re seeing here, it seems they’re more interested in the self-promotion of a political system, and doing so under the guise of environmental activism’.
Degrowth is the ultimate in selfishness. These people declare "I have what I need but I don't think anyone else should be able have what I do". But in reality people proposing this are grifters, making money off of people's guilt. Similar to people who have a house in the suburbs, but then protest if anyone else wants to build; "I have mine, but you need to go somewhere else"
This is not organic selfishness. This is a racewar of extermination by the same ethno-mafia that annihilated 60,000,000 Russians before Stalin turned on them and they fled HERE.
You don't understand communism. They will proffer and propagate any narrative (however hallucinatory) necessary to subjugate you. It will be enforced at gunpoint. You will accept their synthetic reality as fact. Or else. "How many fingers, Winston?"
Well, it sorta does. But if every person simply paid attention and lived a lighter footprint, things would be much better. Capitalism is the world's savior, though. Root out corruption and things would be much rosier everywhere.
No it doesn't its the hubris of humans to think we can control an entire planet when we still have people believing the world is flat and can't figure out what bathroom to use. If we screw up the planet the planet isn't the one who is going to die off, its a rock in space that has been hit by meteors serveral times before us and suffered through extreme climate changes with human polution.@@ljprep6250
Of course they won't come on Stossel TV. They know that everyone gets hardball questions there to defend their ideals. They'd rather get softballs where people won't be tempted to think about their answers.
Degrowth activist: "We need to dismantle capitalism and sharply limit consumption!" Capitalist: "Okay, how about we start with you giving up your smart phone, moving into a smaller apartment, and cancel flights to all your conferences?" DA: "Well, um.... I mean we need to limit everyone ELSES' growth and consumption. I must continue to get more so I can spread this important message...."
Yeah, but if they didn't do it, then there'd be way less jobs and even more poverty. Either produce more useless waste products which pays for the workers' meals or shut down the factories that make it and the workers starve. It's the Catch 22 of economics.
@@aelfredrex8354 reminds me of when Milton Friedman visited a 3rd world country and the politician beamed as he said, “Instead of using big machinery to dig, we used more men with shovels which creates more jobs.” Milton turned to him and said, “Why didn’t you use spoons instead?” Your argument is ludicrous.
@aelfredrex8354 False. Making disposable crap isn't progress. It's stagnation. Making stuff that lasts, then inventing new things that didn't previously exist, is progress.
The fact that not a single one had the stones to come and argue their side tells you a lot; they're not confident in their opinions and know they will fall apart under scrutiny. I'm guessing the whole, "then what's better than capitalism" question. Capitalism is FAR from perfect, but it's the best we have right now. Degrowth like what they're talking about will mean the end for tens-of-millions who rely on recent medical advances. Someone else in the comments mentioned the idea is the "ultimate luxury belief", and they are absolutely correct!
Can we keep on growing in a finite world ? Our civilization consists in extracting raw materials and biomass, in transforming them in objects and associated services, and in generating wastes and pollutions ! Our world GDP is directly correlated with the quantity of oil produced and raw materials extracted. We are in finite world. It means that , whether we like it or not, our GDP will go decreasing when we will run out of oil and raw materials.
It definitely is Capitalism. Not Laissez-Faire for sure, but still the market is mostly free and we can see it by how strong the economy is. Compare with the socialist countries, if they even post the embarassing statistics anymore.e
Forcing both men and women to work all day while their kids are institutionalized, and pay so much taxes to feed an ineffective bureaucracy is a core consequence of the elitist monetization of western life. Men did vital work in production and infrastructure while women took care of the family and used the resources men created efficiently - THAT put collective well being first and was not a money oriented consumerist system. There is no way that these activists want to return to those days, they want our lives financialized even more. When they have massive blind spots like this you know their stated goals aren't truthful. They will campaign for 'de-growth' for the little people so they don't complain as the rich rob them blind.
The concept of mini-retirement changed my life. I'm no longer waiting for some retirement paradise when I'm 65. It helps to know how to fund the lifestyle. You know, making money while you sip that piña colada by the beach does help. I wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise.
Yeah, people miss that part. You don't jet out to Puerto Rico with your life savings. Proper investing and a good business acumen are big pluses. Invest in the stock market, real estate, build businesses. That's just it.
Safe to say not everybody has the skill to pursue investing. But it's always easy to follow the advice of someone who knows how to i.e a financial advisor. You could anywhere between 10--40k with the right ones. Online businesses are a good bet too if you are savvy.
*Izella Annette Anderson* is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Thank you so much for your helpful tip! I was able to verify the person and book a call session with her. She seems very proficient and I'm really grateful for your guidance
There's 8 billion people on the planet. If everyone did what you suggest, the planet would be completely deforested in a few years at most. Then we all die because we have no air to breathe.
I have been listening this man for five decades and everything he said the American economy was wrong. The conservative he has never been in line with democratic ideas, but America continues to improve regardless John says, five decades he's been saying theses things.
The Covid 19 shutdown cast my family and I from a middle middle class family to an upper lower class family. I retired from my job with plans to buy a house with my 401k, but we ended up having to use it to pay bills and rent. We are now only 2 paycheck away from being homeless. Imagine now that scenario occurring hundreds of thousands times over. This is what degrowth would do to society.
So basically, you're upset because you don't get to turn your nose up at poor people anymore since you're one of them now? How delightfully classist of you.
@@Commodore22345 No. Basically I'm warning that degrowth would result in hundreds of thousands of homeless people, bread lines, deadly violence, and the general destabilization of society. Damn!! I forgot!!! This is is exactly what the American Marxists want.
Yeah! Let's degrow the economy, but flood the country at the same time with migrants.....don't worry I figured it out and I'm a professor of social studies, therefore trust me.
Oh hey look, they're being honest about what they want. This undercurrent has been there in the movement as long back as I can remember into the 90s. Nice of them to finally come out and just say they hate people and want them to die.
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20
@QAlba1074 It is propaganda though as it is near the extreme end of the scale. It is disingenuous as it is emphasising some good points and dismissing or not mentioning counter arguments. The extreme left are equally as flawed as they grossly expand the power dynamic explanation beyond its logical end point. I am not picking sides here. Not my country anyway.
I have read many of John Stossel's books (as well as many others) and I have learned enough to recognize baseless, nonsensical propaganda when I see it. And this isn't it! If you want to see "propaganda" tune in to MSNBC or CNN. Joy Reid, Joe Scarborough, etc, etc I'm sure will set the record straight!
Yes I agree that the degrowth movement is ridiculous, because of the anti-capitalism and anti-free market people are just wrong about how to make people live better by killing capitalism, free market and greed. Thank you Mr. Stossel from Indonesia.
I love these guys that say we need to get rid of capitalism while wearing their fancy clothes and taking advantage of technology developed because of capitalism. To paraphrase Tom MacDonald, they talk about how capitalism is the problem while they tweet on an iPhone and sip on a Starbucks.
What if those pushing Degrowth left the planet? -less flatulence -less carbon emissions -more food for the needy -more jobs and housing And much more savings
They want de-growth for others, but not themselves. Join an Amish community instead of jet-setting to conferences.
Don't screw the Amish!
@stephenbrecht1696 the Amish are hearty. They would turn these soy boys into real men.
The amish are not going to accept a blue haired sex maniac.
They should just go live under communism instead of dragging the rest of us down with them.
some animals are more equal than others
Thomas Sowell warned against the intellegencia. Always coming up with cosmic justice solutions!
It's funny how all the people pushing for reducing our quality of life have already got theirs and are 'safe' from the results of their own ideas.
And bearing no consequences when their ideas are proven wrong
And other people tried to warn us of another group of people that "cry 0ut in pain as dey strike you!".
@dextermcgrubbin nailed it, dude. Accountability and integrity are endangered species in today's world.
Well said 👍. The more esoteric and proclaimed enlightenment the more removed from reality.
"Degrowth" is the ultimate luxury belief. I live in an African country and poor people here live lives of destitution. Anybody who supports this crazy idea has never seen real poverty.
As the ruling class live in absolute luxury.. This is all be design..
Maybe if everyone stopped churning out babies like a factory, there would be more resources to go around. Additionally, less labor availability generally equates to higher per hour wages.
@@barkmaker Umm, we have a negative birth rate at this moment. There are more migrants coming to the USA than there are Americans being born, so, maybe we should stop the mass migration first before we are expected to become the Hand Maiden's Tale... Just a thought...
I've seen American poverty which on scale next u that looks wealth. I have a an understanding of ur poverty but I haven't witnessed it or been around it. These ideas come from folks here that have no clue how the world works or the genuine suffering of people around this planet. They think thier Netflix not loading fast enough is oppression
@barkmaker Jew!
"I've grown, got mine, but you can't."
Degrowth for them, not for us.
Exactly. I'd consider listening to these people if they weren't huge hypocrites!
These people don't want to sacrifice themselves. They want everyone else to sacrifice.
Leftists are not known for practicing voluntaryism.
"Eat the bugs you wage slave." Socialism is evil. It is the politics of envy used to divide and subjugate.
Oh don't you worry it is for you too. Pretty sure USA, Europe, Australia and a few others must degrow the most. They are the major reason for the shit that we are getting into in the first place. The largest consumers of resource and energy in the world per person.
Their hatred of humanity is becoming more and more obvious.
Jews
I refer to them as the death cult.
@@kimiknows sad but true
To your point, these monsters also want to abolish or reduce rice crops across the world “coz methane.” Most likely due to the fact that over 3 billion people depend on that foodstuff for their survival.
And obnoxious.
These are vile hypocrites. They don't stop their own personal growth while they seek to destroy the lives of others.
Rules for thee, but not for me.
Just like a liberal
Liberals, do as I say not as I do. Yt will delete this shortly because they believe in censorship
And they are using the very systems that allowed them to achieve in the first place, while deriding them.
True socialists would give their books away rather than selling them. But they don't do that, do they?
"A large population is a king’s glory, but without subjects a prince is ruined." ~Proverbs 14:28
Instead of being political activists for controlling other people's lives, the degrowth activists should change their own lives: live off grid, make their own clothes, grow their own food, build their own shelters, give up the amenities of modern life, etc. That way they live by the standards demand for others live and show that they can do more than just virtue signal.
Real communism
I agree. Talk the talk? Walk the walk.
Degrowth is easy, don't go to work, ever!
It’s like the same liberals in Martha’s Vineyard who virtual signals about open borders, but had the migrants removed within 48 hours
They can always live in a shipping container and not ever come out.
Remember, the occupy Wall Street protest where people were angry that there was inequity? on the daily show when it used to actually be good, correspondent went out and asked the activists who claimed they wanted everybody to be equal if they would let other people use their iPad. Things got awkward, really quick, ha ha. They’re the most privileged hypocrites ever.
We don't have capitalism even now. If government would stop interfering, we'd have much higher growth.
Oh stfu you probably support trump and he wants 60% tariffs on everything and more regulation
Seriously, every time I hear someone conflate capitalism for corporatism it reminds me that they probably went to the government School
@@zg-it so you are anti tariffs?
This is the real capitalism
Tell me about how many countries developed without government interference? TELL ME HOW MANY DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ARE NOT STRONG STATES, DICTATORSHIPS AND EMPIRES???
Degrowth is similar to defund the police....and that was a total failure.
Defund the police, was used to put a bad name on those calling for Demilitarizing the police (a legitimate concern).
Defund the police, was used to put a bad name on those calling for Demilitarizing the police (a legitimate concern).
A lot of people still actually believe ideology is more powerful than incentives.
@pigdroppings no police departments have ever been defunded at any time anywhere ever.
It's just part of the grand destabilize Western society and take over the world program.
One thing I agree with…Grow as much of your own food as you can!
There are many places in city living where there is not enough land to grow enough food for a family.
if you were to actually grow as much food as possible, then you would simply deplete the land of all resources that allow food to grow. A.K.A bye-bye food growth in 20 or so years
@@jentewillems6725 which is why most, if not all organic gardeners, replenish the soil regularly with organic material every year after the growing season ends. It’s the only way to keep the soil sustainable and healthy. Ever seen anyone fertilizing a forest?
That's ok...Democrats are already trying to outlaw personal gardens ect...
They have the solution!😬
They can live however they want to live: tiny house, no children, no car, no travel, no plastic… Leave the rest of us alone to live our lives.
Except for the "no children" part, this sounds like how serfs lived in the dark ages (fall of Rome til about 800 AD). Later on, medieval peasants had better lives than that (not all peasants were serfs).
@@martabachynsky8545If people want to have no children, that is their choice. Let people choose what they want as long as they don't impose those restrictions on others.
@@crissd8283 People are free to choose to have no children if they wish, although it's a bad thing in the long run (look at China's one child policy).
I was just pointing out that having to live in a tiny house with no modern stuff (e.g. plastic, cars) and not being free to travel was how serfs lived.
You seem to be implying that these activists practice what they preach.
The hypocrisy in the environmental movement rivals that of televangelist celebrity preachers.
Assuming without any frictin that big houses, children, cars, travels and plastic should make everyone as happy as you were made by them.
If the activist truly believe all this then they could go to Canada and go to the medical assistance in death centers
It’s not easy for a non-Canadian to get that service.
@@barrym2112This sounds like a worthy cause for protest.
@@boyblue3270 just cross the border and claim asylum and very shortly after that you can get MAID. Do not do it.
@@peterz22thomas5 I thought the same, why not be an example and show others what they should be doing.
No need to travel. There's lakes, rivers, or oceans near most population centers and you won't generally get arrested for filling your pockets with rocks before going swimming.
“Degrowth” is the stupidest idea ever. It means “give up and die”.
It's much more evil than that.
These people are delusional, with no honest grasp of history.
Probably more like, "we will designate who will live and who should die"
More for the survivors
@@mustang607 Yeah, "give up and die so your betters (us) can continue our lavish lifestyle and not have to feel guilty about it"
Of course they could go after China, but they know they'd be laughed out of the room &/or stuffed into a forced labor camp... This is what happens when you make your society soft: wacko commies think they can talk you into killing/sterilizing yourself, giving away all your property, etc and they keep a straight face the entire time. In any other point in history they'd be driven out of polite society, but we have way too many of the inmates running the asylum...
The good news is the WEF are a laughing stock, so they are failing. It's just scary they ever thought they had enough socio-political capital to ever propose such nonsense in the first place.
Wonder why they always focus on taking things away from the everyday man and NOT the largest consumers?
Yeah people like Al Gore, John Kerry, and Leonardo DiCaprio have the biggest carbon footprints imaginable. Go after them not us poor plebs!!!
I studied humanities
Marx 101.
You're absolutely wrong, it's an effort by everyone. Educate yourself instead of spitting back what big corp told you to.
We actually wish to empower and give true freedom to the everyday person by covering their basic needs.
WEF wants Degrowth. Degrowth will starve those not on the top out.
You got it in one. The people on top are perfectly happy to sacrifice everyone else for their advantage.
Women and children, first. Chivalry was always a myth.
And if we keep polluting the planet as we are, we are still going to see degrowth in the future anyway.
Feudalism coming down the pike.. two distinct classes.. the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor.
They are the biggest threat humanity has ever faced.
I'm down with degrowth of government.
Argentina is the way.
Bye
Then vote Maga
@@trainwreck420ishhuh, wish that was true.
@@uss-dh7909 VLLC
As with all activists, I say the same thing, "you first." They never reduce their own quality of life, ever.
I still wouldn't join them, but I would at least respect them if they decided to embrace the asceticism they demand of others and live simple low footprint lives. Not one practices what they preach.
@@Xiuhtec That's an interesting point. Back in the 1970s, some people embraced asceticism. Not too many stayed that way, but at least they were practicing what they preached.
Why do ppl always assume they are saying ppl need to kill themselves?
@@genepope7498
Because they found out how absolutely horrible it is.
Marxism 101.
Of course they wouldn't come on your show. They don't want to debate, they want to pontificate. Get the faithful all riled up to "affect change" by any means possible.
Did you see the soft, well manicured hands on those capitalist haters?
While they capitalize!
Correct
Exactly. All these young Marxists wouldn’t give up just their phones, let alone all the other benefits of capitalism they enjoy. They have no concept of the consequences of what they are striving for.
That's what they're afraid of... rigorous journalism.
Nothing says confidence in your position like only wanting to speak to an audience of clapping seals that already agree with you.
@@Grayald John Stossel has been in journalism longer than that clown has been alive. In fact, Stossel is one of the most accomplished journalists in America, by far. He has been at his craft for many decades and worked in many of the largest news bureaus in the world. Laughable that this a--hat would turn down Stossel.
@@Grayald That's how they build momentum. Don't underestimate their reach.
Rigorous propaganda.
John stossle has been the gold standard for journalism since before that guy was born.
You got that right I’ve been watching him since the ‘80’s
Degrowth advocates don't talk about their desire to eliminate people
If they want to reduce the human population, they need to reduce the number of females. This is the technique they us to control populations in the wild. They allow hunters to take male specimens without hurting the numbers at all; it's the number of females that determine a species growth!! But the Left keeps promoting females; it's like they really don't know what the heck they're doing, or they're stupid!!!
Root cause of growth: new born humans.
Remove the root cause and the growth will fade away.
The conclusion was correct. Those that have benefitted from generations of growth now have the leisure time to obsess about nature. Those battling it every day just to survive actually hate nature.
The current activists you see are grifters. Look at their presentations, hipster fashion, hair product, salesmen in air conditioned auditoriums on university campuses...taking flights from speaking gig to speaking gig. Speaking to the pampered children of surface dwellers of Metropolis while ignoring the gangs of laborers sweating below.
They are as removed from the antigrowth nature they promote as they can be.
The forester cutting trees, the hunter shooting deer and the farmer growing crops are much closer and more in tune with the natural world these fake scholars say they promote.
You're just shooting the messenger. There's finite resources and you have people promoting infinite growth.
This ends one of 2 ways: we descend into chaos as the competition for resources reaches a breaking point or since humans have the the intelligence to make long term decisions we can manage our own population to prevent collapse.
A good microcosm to represent this is locusts, once the grass hopper has over populated they mutate into cannibals.
@@KBergs so if you propose less use, consumption and negative growth....I'm open minded to an example to study...you go first. We'll watch. You can bang out your experiences on hollow log drums. We'll write up the results, but you'll never know about it in your hide lodge in the wilderness.
In reality the 'movement' is about these fuzzy wuzzies not knowing their place and remaining poor and downtrodden forever so your mommy can say, eat up, there are starving children in China.
It is typical moronic empty virtue signalling from people who will always tell others to do as they say, and not as they do. Like listening to a billionaire tell people to eat bugs, while he eats beef at a conference he flew to in his private jet.
@@KBergsOh, a cult member!
But think of the utopia the beneficiaries will inherit after getting the population down to 5% of current levels. This is about reducing suffering. It is better to have never lived than to live in misery and poverty. The Earth can support 500,000 Oprahs
They applaud in the conference center, wearing their designer clothing, speaking through a sound system, scrolling on their phones.....and condemn the capitalism responsible for all of it.
Was thinking the same thing!
If they had their way the remaining people would be cold, naked and hungry!
Their hormone levels have degrowthed
And brain cells😅
Nah, I think it's their brains!
Well they take hormon blockers
Norberg showed up and answered questions. NO degrowth advocate was willing. *THAT* tells you everything you need to know about the strength of their arguments and if they even believe in themselves.
"Stop capitalism!" says the guy on the stage of a well-lit, air-conditioned building with clean drinking water.
with a high tech wireless sound system.
It is a cult of death-worshipers, coming from both the old German left and right, the Frankfurt School and the Nazis.
Philosophical descendants of Kant, Nietzsche and Rousseau.
An irrational blend of Freud and Karl Marx (the prince of the muddle-heads).
Capitalism is the only way for humans to live.
Men are rational beings in that they survive by volitionaly using their conceptual faculty (mind).
If they choose not to utilize this faculty, they will suffer and eventually fail to produce what they need to survive.
Man's environment is man made, to make his environment requires reason.
Man cannot live without his mind, man can not live without his production.
Thought is individual, not collective.
All people work to satisfy their own desires/values (which may include the happiness of their children, for example).
They will not work for anything or anyone else.
They destroy all means and all incentives for production. Instead, they promote theft.
The Frankfurt School and German-originating leftists want death for all because they failed (including their socialist/communist utopian system) and are bitter and cynical.
The old German right wants to rekindle their movement by exploiting their old, previously exiled in the USA, adversaries' ascent by presenting a false alternative.
They are all statists and death-worshipers. Subjectivist disintegrationists or collectivists authoritarians.
Anti-growth, Anti-capitalism = Anti-human life = death worship.
For example, if they believed in global warming, climate change or even in pollution, they would have been pushing for Nuclear power plants decades ago.
Instead, they promoted "solutions" that do not work on purpose, to cause degrowth, poverty and starvation.
also, doesn't grow his own food or make his own clothes. wants to reap all the benefits, but demand others get less
And who is getting paid good money to do so. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't do those speeches for free. Rants against the very system that allows him to earn the living he has...
If they can stop capitalism, they think they will be in charge. Running gulags and re-education camps, hosting politburo events for the central committee, running factories printing hammer and sickle flags, and all that good stuff all properly left thinking Maoists and Stalinists love.
Can all of these DeGrowth people move to ANY non-capitalist country and then maybe we'll start listening, maybe.
Name any Capitalist countries left in the World? America hasnt had real Capitalism since FDR rammed his Fascist New Deal up Americas arse.
There are no such countries currently. Capitalism is everywhere, it has successfully infected the whole Earth for some time now. You will not find a country that does not use money and corporations. There are leaders in some countries who would LIKE to be non-capitalist, but it's mainly just verbal, just talk. A desire, an aspiration . But in practice, in reality, there are no such countries.
They're not about to give up their expensive high rise and turbo Mercedes for that.
They always seem to come out of the Western Academia cesspool. You don't ever hear any scholars from any African country speaking like this. Those people always talk about the need for prosperity and modernization.
So basically virtue signalling?
Stossel sets the journalism standard!
In other words,I don’t want to be challenged,I want same think journalist ,to provide me right.. crazy world we are currently living. 🤡🌎
Damn straight. His rebuttal is a laugh.
Maybe true, but they set it very low.
@@lisastarry9531
So you just described yourself
That's a pretty low deplorable standard. This is my first video of this channel and the whole video is outright lies, leaps in logic and loose associations.
Old fan, John, always respected your investigative reporting.
The fact they wouldn’t speak to Stossel speaks volumes.
and they wont give up their private jets
It's called dismissiveness. They don't argue the point. I posted on one message board about Stossel's video about a Leftist promoting climate change who was later proven wrong but was lifted up by climate enthusiasts. The person replying to me just said Stossel had slanted right-wing stories even though the story was about a Leftist.
Their "standards of journalism" require "journalists" who won't ask questions.
Leftists never debate. NEVER - they are lazy buffoons who rely on other propel to produce food and products for them.
If you want to see de growth go to a rust belt town, like Detroit, Flint and Saginaw Michigan.
or any river town along the ohio that blew up in the late 1800s and then became desolate. their ideas are driven by ideology, this does not help anyone to go in reverse.
Nah thats too poor for the pretentious liberals
@@ff7hIsn't "growth" driven by ideology?? Moron.
A very refreshing point of view. This is what you don't hear in the media and that is a shame. The Covid-19 analogy was a very good example. Many small companies went bankrupt. People became depressive, etc. etc. So, yes capitalism is the only way to get people out of poverty. It is also gives the consumer the freedom and power to decide of what to buy and not.
The smug, privileged professor. Big salary. Home in nice location near parks, bike paths and public transportation. Commutes 15 minutes to get to work. Promotes high gas taxes to "save the environment" and encourages use of public transportation. Those poorer than him have to commute three hours a day to work on public transportation but can't afford a car plus all the penalty fees.
I would totally support this if these privileged promoters, proved their dedication and integrity by quitting their cushy jobs and go work for Walmart, a restaurant or clean hotel rooms.
I want them to experience coming home in the dark, going straight to bed and doing it all again the next day.
I work in a factory that makes single use plastics, HAHA
You know public transportation is only awful in America, I don't know how you people managed to fuck it up. How did the rest of the world figure it out but not you? Are you all stupid so you just can't figure it out
Or could it be that the automobile industry doesn't want good public transportation because it would cut into their profits.
Indeed the very definition of elitist.
Well said my friend!
That will never happen. They're more equal than the rest of us.
marxists should consider Degrowth a self-help project
💯
Do you know what Marxism is beyond conservative babble?
@I-hate-sundays many of us lived during the USSR and seen the result.
@@Sun-diver how far will you go to defend something as self-destructive as Marxism?
@@Sun-diverA system partially developed by a man who made his living off of other people's money.
These are the SAME people who say "men can get pregnant".
That shows us how really far removed from reality these monsters truly are.
Wait? What? They can't 🤣
I don't know... I feel like I give birth every once in a while.
But all my babies are crap
G@nder is really a sublime and beautiful part of nature like forests, rainbows, or birds singing. This is a classic example of how Far Left extremism is bad for nature.
And the same people who demand free healthcare. If you want degrowth, you get no healthcare.
I am a staunch capitalist but I very strongly agree with some of what these people are saying.
I'm in America, I'm surrounded by people who spend every waking second of their entire lives being CONSUMERS, instead of being HUMAN BEINGS. They don't just work to secure the necessities of life, they don't work just to get a very comfortable, secure life, they bend the duration of their entire existence to grasping and scrabbling in a lifelong rampage of consumption, making themselves mentally and physically sick with their excess, never enjoying what they have and being content with that, as soon as one luxury has been shakily secured, they are not content enjoying it, they have already forgotten what so newly came into their hands, and are already feeling the discontent of not having the next biggest and newest thing.
A billionaire was asked "why do you keep doing business, you already have more money than you could spend in 500 lifetimes, what does all this money mean to you that you keep going for more?"
His answer: "the money is just a way to keep score."
And that's where Americans are at, endlessly consuming, always grasping and gobbling, addicts of consumerism who are never sated, never able (or willing) to stop, put in the work and examine themselves.
However, never allow yourself to be fooled by this bunch of subterfuge playing elitists.
Free market capitalism works. We have corporatism. Cronie Capitalism. They've fixed the game.
I agree that there is a lot of consumerism going on. People with low self esteem and a defective set of moral values will spend money on things that others would consider a ridiculous waste of their time and energy. Tattoos comes to mind for me. Advertising has taken the driver’s seat over a sound philosophy of life. Way back in 1956, Journalist Vance Packard wrote a slim book called “The Hidden Persuaders”, an exposé of the advertising industry. People are essentially brainwashed into buying things without even consciously knowing what motivates them. This should have been the conclusion of “The Feminine Mystique”, but Friedan missed it entirely and went on a spree of speculation.
An insidious aspect of the tweaking of our free market system comes from the War on Poverty. Give people the security of money to spend that they did not earn, and they can make monetary decisions that run contrary to nature. True Capitalism must remain honest to the dictates of nature for people to be properly motivated. If a government wants to spend the money of people who produce the wealth of a nation on people who do not produce wealth, they can always find a way to do so.
Yes, there is certainly room to criticize consumerism, but its ridiculous to start advocating for everyone to become poor as a solution.
It's an attitude that can only exist from the rich first-world people who have never experienced true hardship. It's a view that could only come from the highly privileged.
Most Americans live, act, work, make homes and families quite contrary to your caricature, but this caricature does allow you a hollow sanctimony.
Rather than sitting around with your friends exchanging silliness why not get out into the world, even live in foreign countries for a time, and discover how wilfully stupid you are to common sense? Your gross caricatures and naive notions will fall under experience.
It's funny how the crowd demonizing "consuming more stuff" is the same crowd that turned literally everything into disposable junk that doesn't last even if we wanted it to. "Make sure you buy the new iPhone every year." *Makes all your appliances grenade after 5 years. That's literally why they are pushing battery cars. When the battery in the car dies out of warranty, 95% of EVs will be totaled. "Perfect, more sales!"
True _!_
My 350k mile'd Ford F350 Diesel from the year 2000 seems to keep on running. Hearing all of this EV gibberish, I will never sell my Diesel.
@@BlindWitchFire especially since it's pre-emissions gimped. One of the few vehicles worth actually repairing and restoring.
There are acres & acres of EV cars & bikes/scooters in the trash heap in China, cars will be like cordless drills & other tools or implements in time, in every house & garage
Typical hypercrites
The crowd that brought us engineered obsolescence were the BOOMERS and are one of if not the most Consumerist generation of Americans
Notice how the "degrowth" people are all pampered rich people.
Not true, I’m one of the poorest people I know and certainly far from pampered. I don’t hate capitalism either. John painted degrowth people with a very broad brush that was not accurate.
@@barrym2112 Give me a break! You're watching TH-cam videos on a computer. You are NOT one of the "poorest people." And you don't have sense enough to see that the computer you are using, the electricity that runs it, the house you live in, and everything about your life is the result of the growth you deplore. Go live a few years in a shack in the slums of some city in Africa or Asia and then come back and tell us how much you hate economic growth pulling people out of poverty.
@@barrym2112 If you're so poor, how do you have a computer/phone with viable internet connection to watch this?
I don't buy your little astroturfed sob-story.
The degrowth position _really_ needs some steelmanning. I'm not very familiar with the position, but my brain is just screaming "everyone here is beating on a strawman".
@@CCoburn3 So you're saying everyone capable of talking to you at all is disqualified from supporting degrowth because they're "too rich". Nice.
Don't disqualify people unless you can - and do - talk to the people who aren't disqualified.
It's amazing how those who have the most and produce little or nothing want to decide for everyone else what we can think,do and say!
They're called Parasites.
And they call us useless eaters!
I work with some of these nutters who say we should "end capitalism" and punish economic growth and profit. What's true of 100% of them? They didn't grow up poor. They have no experience of poverty or deprivation, in their whole lives. If you grew up poor and pulled yourself out of poverty - e.g. you're the first in your family to buy a home, have a degree, go on vacations - you know how important it is to have opportunities that you can walk right up and take yourself instead of watching them be given to elite party members and cronies in a centrally-managed economy.
"1. Compared to what? 2. At what cost? 3. What hard evidence do you have?" - Thomas Sowell.
Look at them in their expensive clothes talking about degrowth. They can run naked in the forest and live like an animal if they want to. Let’s see how long they last.
I say 15 minutes before they drive off to the nearest Trader Joe's
@@Smile200-z4ywhy you have to bring Trader Joe’s into this?
They think if they get what they want, they will be among the anointed ones. History says they will be the first to disappear.
Not too long.. Read Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six. 😢
I’m 1000% sure that they have never done a hard days labor or gotten their hands dirty once in their lives. They haven’t done a thing in their entire existence to better this world.
People who denounce capitalism are some of the ones who are benefiting the most from capitalism.
This is old news. Two sides of the same "coin"; Capitalism/Communism. You were warned long ago. An individual tried to stop them but the entire world fought against him.
Exactly!
This is completely the opposite of what the reality is. The people who benefit the most from some circumstance, become the most invested in said circumstance, so they are the people who are most likely to defend what got them to their position of advantage, and are the people who are least likely to take any critique. What you wrote shows utter lack in understanding of psychology, reinforcement, motivation and all the related concepts, that allows you to understand how people and organisms in general learn and function.
"To the Rockefellers, socialism is not a system for redistributing wealth - especially not for redistributing their wealth -but a system to control people and competitors. Socialism puts power in the hands of the government. And since the Rockefellers control the government, government control means Rockefeller control."
--Gary Allen Files
@@mitkoogrozevThe people who benefit most from capitalism can't believe that they could possibly be so well-off without subjugating others, so they believe they're subjugating others and spend lots of money paying others to confirm that belief.
Plus, their parents teach them to respect university professors, and their university professors constantly rail against capitalism (of course they do; academics usually benefit from communism).
One thing is for sure is I have never heard of a poor person be anti-capitalist, anti-growth or any other rhetoric against what ability to better their lives. These people are rich, greedy, self-centered individuals who are more than set for the rest of their lives and want it all for themselves, end of story.
They are confusing capitalism with consumerism. The Amish are anti-consumerist who grow their own food, drive environmentally friendly vehicles, are well living the degrowth dream by um growing stuff.
And how many poor people do you know much less talk to?
To parrot the immortal words of a genius, visionary, and founder of the EIB institute :
“Capitalism, it works every time it’s tried !”
Yeah I miss Rush Limbaugh!
That people on the political left have a certain set of opinions, just as people do in other parts of the ideological spectrum, is not surprising. What is surprising, however, is how often the opinions of those on the left are accompanied by hostility and even hatred.
Anyone who studies the history of ideas should notice how much more often people on the political left, more so than others, denigrate and demonize those who disagree with them - instead of answering their arguments.
In a sense, the political left’s attempts to silence ideas they cannot, or will not, debate are a confession of intellectual bankruptcy.
The most fundamental fact about the ideas of the political left is that they do not work. Therefore we should not be surprised to find the left concentrated in institutions where ideas do not have to work in order to survive.
The political left has never understood that, if you give the government enough power to create ‘social justice,’ you have given it enough power to create despotism. Millions of people around the world have paid with their lives for overlooking that simple fact.”
The whole political vision of the left, including socialism and communism, has failed by virtually every empirical test, in countries all around the world. But this has only led leftist intellectuals to evade and denigrate empirical evidence.
The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom - whether black or white - who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior.
No one can really understand the political left without understanding that they are about making themselves feel superior, however much they may talk piously about what they are going to do to help others.
Facts are seldom allowed to contaminate the beautiful vision of the left. What matters to the true believers are the ringing slogans, endlessly repeated. Darwinian adaptation to environment applies not only to nature but also to society. Just as you don’t find eagles living in the ocean or fish living on mountain tops, so you don’t find leftists concentrated where their ideas have to stand the test of performance.
Wherever you get enough far left people in power, you can find a similar willingness to force everyone into collectivist conformity at all costs.
The left is not necessarily aiming at totalitarianism. But their know-it-all mindset leads repeatedly and pervasively in that direction, even if by small steps, each of which might be called ‘micro-totalitarianism.’
What socialism, fascism and other ideologies of the left have in common is an assumption that some very wise people-like themselves-need to take decisions out of the hands of lesser people, like the rest of us, and impose those decisions by government fiat.
Although the big word on the left is ‘compassion,’ the big agenda on the left is dependency. The more people who are dependent on government handouts, the more votes the left can depend on for an ever-expanding welfare state.
The greatest moral claim of the political left is that they are for the masses in general and the poor in particular. That is also their greatest fraud. It even fools many leftists themselves.
No government of the left has done as much for the poor as capitalism has. Even when it comes to the redistribution of income, the left talks the talk but the free market walks the walk. What do the poor most need? They need to stop being poor. And how can that be done, on a mass scale, except by an economy that creates vastly more wealth? Yet the political left has long had a remarkable lack of interest in how wealth is created. As far as they are concerned, wealth exists somehow and the only interesting question is how to redistribute it.
~Thomas Sowell
Degrowth is a rich people thing, whom is living a life of luxury already
Don't think for a minute they will be the ones to shift to a 'post-capitalist' economy or participate in 'degrowth'. They want to impoverish everyone else, but not themselves. They are evil.
Exactly, they have theirs. Don’t see them rushing to give it up, do you?
Yes - JUST like all those who go to davos ... on jets... cars AND helicopters. They'd have bit more credence IF they ZOOMED all their meetings but I don't see that happening any time soon. Liars and hypocrites. Sitting with their heads in the clouds.
I won’t take climate change seriously until the world bans private jets. The rich need to take the life style decline first.
That's really idiotic. Do you know what rich means? It's a term that's the opposite of poor, and by definition, the richer you are the more resource and energy you use. They are the people who are least likely to want de-growth. They are the most rewarded individuals in our growth based global economy, and as such they are the most invested, which means they are the least likely to want to give it up. If you listen to Musk, Bezos, Gates, politicians in power etc. all those rich pricks say they WANT growth. They want the population to keep going up and up, and that de-growth is bad. You can find almost direct quotes from them.
It's amusing that Parrique said that Stossel is "nowhere near my standards of rigorous journalism so I'll pass.". More than likely, he knows that Stossel is one of the few true journalists left who will actually ask him hard questions and bring up evidence to show that degrowth is detrimental to the planet.
Parrique and his ilk are using a Newspeak term of "journalism", meaning propaganda.
You would think he would want to reach as many people as possible in order to "save the planet". It's almost like he only wants certain people in certain groups to hear him.
Additionally these people want everyone to be dependent on Socialist Parties for their existence. Just like the model in the old USSR, Maoist China and today's North Korea. Utopia on Earth !!!
@@LaborHours ...certain people who will pay money to hear him.
Yeah he should publish his “approved” journalist list so we can all have a hearty laugh😂
If growth is so great, why are Americans so broke? High economic growth much of the last 10 years, and people are still broke and in debt, even before the pandemic. Save nothing, buy everything is good for the economy but financially exhausting for individuals.
I strongly urge you to leave this channel since this is a mixing pot of capitalist propaganda! Degrowth is not about uniformly stopping economic growth; it is about reversing economic growth in the richest countries, growing some in the poorest and decreasing inequality in a safe, just and equitable way, all while decreasing the overall economy of the world. The process is meant to be agreed-upon by many!
This channel is some of the worst journalism out there, and THAT is why the people chose not to respond. They do NOT want to have their arguments misconstrued and twisted, which is why they chose not to participate.
Probably because those very people are being victimized by poor economic policies in their region by the same people who think degrowth is mandatory. They have lost hope.
They are not (usually) the same people. Those who think that degrowth is mandatory are likely to be in the proletariat, while those who are creating the neoliberal policies are (at least almost) always in the bourgeoisie.
Sounds like genocide
The death cult will never be satisfied.
That is the goal.
They want to jennoside people of Eur0pean Descent.
They are helping Russia and China because the leaders of these 2 countries will do anything for economic growth to stay in power.
They could bring back the more queer practices of some of the indigenous humans that were historically oppressed. We could have a rise of woke cannibalism.
They can all degrowth themselves.
Dear Degrowth Proponents,
Check your privilege!
Signed,
The Poor People You Claim to Care About
Well said.
That millennial that’s talking about pandemics being good , someone should take away all the luxuries he has and see how good life will be when he actually has to practice what he is preaching 😮😢
💯
They never cared about poor people. That's the point.
@@cebruthius yeah like the state of this country under Biden democrats
John Stossel I Loved your reporting when you were on 20/20!! And appreciate your channel ❤😊😊
There’s a reason tyrants always try to keep their people in poverty. When you’re struggling just to survive, it’s harder to fight an uphill battle to take back your freedom.
Until every one has nothing to lose, then elites must hide.
Hilarious that none of them would face John Stossel. The one guy said he's not a good enough journalist. No one has heard of him, yet John Stossel is one of the greatest journalists of my time.
Stossel is a delusional bloviating gas bag corporate shill who needs to retire.
God bless freedom
Dictators, philosopher-kings, and armchair socialists, define "responsible journalism" as journalism with which they agree.
Ask Haiti how degrowth works.
I think degrowth ties back to build back better. The reason for degrowth is so they make it sound like it's necessary when it's in fact inevitable due to decades of deficit and money printing. A way of avoiding accountability for their failed fiscal policies.
They could also be anti-immigration, cause you know if the country sucks like California, then every one would just leave. Just allow poor people to steal under $700, legalize drugs & then get Russia to back the anti-fa occupy movements like they did in the Ukraine to reduce both population & growth.
New rule: if you want to suggest implementing a drastic solution like degrowth in public, you first have to try it by yourself in an isolated location for a minimum of three years without outside assistance of any sort - just to see if you're still hot on the idea when you look like Christian Bale in The Mechanic.
Totally underrated comment right here!
I want to say to all these degrowth people, " You first!" Give up all you have, don't have children, and don't even try to live longer. You can save the planet! More for the sane people.
You’re exactly right. They could make the ultimate statement and lead by example. But all they do is talk. Maybe earlier generations fumbled the ball when it came to the environment, but have these ‘new wave’ hippies of today picked it up? Based on what we’re seeing here, it seems they’re more interested in the self-promotion of a political system, and doing so under the guise of environmental activism’.
They are too busy making cardboard posters and repeating the chants of someone with a megaphone.
This is the same half-witted response these clowns always give when anybody suggests we have a sensible debate about world population.....
This is a straw man fallacy, degrowth doesn't mean that you have to give up modern life and go live like a caveman.
@@edisonchin2463 Do tell how you are living degrowth and what your long term plan is.
Degrowth is the ultimate in selfishness. These people declare "I have what I need but I don't think anyone else should be able have what I do". But in reality people proposing this are grifters, making money off of people's guilt. Similar to people who have a house in the suburbs, but then protest if anyone else wants to build; "I have mine, but you need to go somewhere else"
This is not organic selfishness. This is a racewar of extermination by the same ethno-mafia that annihilated 60,000,000 Russians before Stalin turned on them and they fled HERE.
You literally just made that up.
*I'm surprised the "degrowthers" rejected you (John Stossel) on your "low" journalistic integrity. You are literally the ONLY journalist I trust.*
Another home run from John Stossel. 👍🏻
"Not one would agree." - So telling. FAILED ideas that cannot be defended.
Right. They want to lecture others from a stage, not discuss anything.
Thanks for exposing the nonsense of these people and their harmful ideas.
Peasants not supposed to have, consume and travel. They have to sit tight eat z e bugs and pray for all mighty government.
I have one response to these fools ... "you go first."
Degrowing is to economics as flat earth theory is to geology.
You don't understand communism. They will proffer and propagate any narrative (however hallucinatory) necessary to subjugate you. It will be enforced at gunpoint. You will accept their synthetic reality as fact. Or else. "How many fingers, Winston?"
Our Planet doesn't require "saving"
Bingo.
"The planet is fine. It's the people who are f*¢k3d." George Carlin
Well, it sorta does. But if every person simply paid attention and lived a lighter footprint, things would be much better.
Capitalism is the world's savior, though. Root out corruption and things would be much rosier everywhere.
No it doesn't its the hubris of humans to think we can control an entire planet when we still have people believing the world is flat and can't figure out what bathroom to use.
If we screw up the planet the planet isn't the one who is going to die off, its a rock in space that has been hit by meteors serveral times before us and suffered through extreme climate changes with human polution.@@ljprep6250
First get saved and serve Yeshua.
Degrowth is satans "final-solution".
Of course they won't come on Stossel TV. They know that everyone gets hardball questions there to defend their ideals. They'd rather get softballs where people won't be tempted to think about their answers.
The people that say that the human race takes up too much space as obviously never driven through South Dakota North Dakota Wyoming Iowa
Degrowth activist: "We need to dismantle capitalism and sharply limit consumption!"
Capitalist: "Okay, how about we start with you giving up your smart phone, moving into a smaller apartment, and cancel flights to all your conferences?"
DA: "Well, um.... I mean we need to limit everyone ELSES' growth and consumption. I must continue to get more so I can spread this important message...."
Yep! The hypocrisy is real.
Planned obsolescence is the biggest polluter
The biggest?
Thank you…DEFINITELY.
Yeah, but if they didn't do it, then there'd be way less jobs and even more poverty. Either produce more useless waste products which pays for the workers' meals or shut down the factories that make it and the workers starve. It's the Catch 22 of economics.
@@aelfredrex8354 reminds me of when Milton Friedman visited a 3rd world country and the politician beamed as he said, “Instead of using big machinery to dig, we used more men with shovels which creates more jobs.”
Milton turned to him and said, “Why didn’t you use spoons instead?”
Your argument is ludicrous.
@aelfredrex8354 False. Making disposable crap isn't progress. It's stagnation. Making stuff that lasts, then inventing new things that didn't previously exist, is progress.
The fact that not a single one had the stones to come and argue their side tells you a lot; they're not confident in their opinions and know they will fall apart under scrutiny. I'm guessing the whole, "then what's better than capitalism" question. Capitalism is FAR from perfect, but it's the best we have right now. Degrowth like what they're talking about will mean the end for tens-of-millions who rely on recent medical advances. Someone else in the comments mentioned the idea is the "ultimate luxury belief", and they are absolutely correct!
I love everything Stossel does.Thank you John!
Can we keep on growing in a finite world ?
Our civilization consists in extracting raw materials and biomass, in transforming them in objects and associated services, and in generating wastes and pollutions !
Our world GDP is directly correlated with the quantity of oil produced and raw materials extracted. We are in finite world. It means that , whether we like it or not, our GDP will go decreasing when we will run out of oil and raw materials.
I don't know about growth, but what we are experiencing today is certainly not capitalism.
It's Fabian socialism, an ape of capitalism
Everyone defines those terms differently, so to have a meaningful discussion you will have to stop assuming everyone shares your definition.
It definitely is Capitalism. Not Laissez-Faire for sure, but still the market is mostly free and we can see it by how strong the economy is. Compare with the socialist countries, if they even post the embarassing statistics anymore.e
@@Noam_.Menashe The worldwide economy is crashing. It can't support the worldwide socialism/fascism, e.g., authoritarianism/collectivism.
Forcing both men and women to work all day while their kids are institutionalized, and pay so much taxes to feed an ineffective bureaucracy is a core consequence of the elitist monetization of western life. Men did vital work in production and infrastructure while women took care of the family and used the resources men created efficiently - THAT put collective well being first and was not a money oriented consumerist system. There is no way that these activists want to return to those days, they want our lives financialized even more. When they have massive blind spots like this you know their stated goals aren't truthful. They will campaign for 'de-growth' for the little people so they don't complain as the rich rob them blind.
this guy has been dropping quality journalism reports and viable solutions for so many years, very underrated even for a million subs imo
The concept of mini-retirement changed my life. I'm no longer waiting for some retirement paradise when I'm 65. It helps to know how to fund the lifestyle. You know, making money while you sip that piña colada by the beach does help. I wouldn't have been able to do it otherwise.
Yeah, people miss that part. You don't jet out to Puerto Rico with your life savings. Proper investing and a good business acumen are big pluses. Invest in the stock market, real estate, build businesses. That's just it.
Safe to say not everybody has the skill to pursue investing. But it's always easy to follow the advice of someone who knows how to i.e a financial advisor. You could anywhere between 10--40k with the right ones. Online businesses are a good bet too if you are savvy.
@@mikegarvey17Your advisor must be really good. How I can get in touch? My retirement portfolio's decline is a concern, and I could use some guidance.
*Izella Annette Anderson* is the licensed advisor I use. Just research the name. You’d find necessary details to work with a correspondence to set up an appointment.
Thank you so much for your helpful tip! I was able to verify the person and book a call session with her. She seems very proficient and I'm really grateful for your guidance
Thank you John Stossel!! You report what others will not! Honesty is valued.
Hundreds of millions of people on this planet still cook their food by burning wood, they say, let's all do it.
There's 8 billion people on the planet. If everyone did what you suggest, the planet would be completely deforested in a few years at most. Then we all die because we have no air to breathe.
@@Commodore22345 Ehh, i was talking about these insane leftists who wants everyone to 'degrowth'.
Degrowth is the sort of idea that Thanos would come up with
I have been listening this man for five decades and everything he said the American economy was wrong. The conservative he has never been in line with democratic ideas, but America continues to improve regardless John says, five decades he's been saying theses things.
The Covid 19 shutdown cast my family and I from a middle middle class family to an upper lower class family. I retired from my job with plans to buy a house with my 401k, but we ended up having to use it to pay bills and rent. We are now only 2 paycheck away from being homeless.
Imagine now that scenario occurring hundreds of thousands times over. This is what degrowth would do to society.
So basically, you're upset because you don't get to turn your nose up at poor people anymore since you're one of them now? How delightfully classist of you.
@@Commodore22345 No. Basically I'm warning that degrowth would result in hundreds of thousands of homeless people, bread lines, deadly violence, and the general destabilization of society.
Damn!! I forgot!!! This is is exactly what the American Marxists want.
@@Commodore22345that's a weird interpretation of what was written. Stop projecting.
It's working really well in Haiti
What Mr. Norberg said about refugees, watching from what nations they flee to what nations they seek, was a very significant observation!
Remember, its not suicidal, its genocidal.
God bless you John Stossel. Thank you for all you do.
If the economy isn't growing, it's dying.
Yeah! Let's degrow the economy, but flood the country at the same time with migrants.....don't worry I figured it out and I'm a professor of social studies, therefore trust me.
John Stossel TV is one of the very few news worthy channels that I watch every episode!
Oh hey look, they're being honest about what they want. This undercurrent has been there in the movement as long back as I can remember into the 90s. Nice of them to finally come out and just say they hate people and want them to die.
Degrowth is one of the most important pillars of Bidenomics.
When will you finally understand that they are all in on it together ?
Because people rather believe a false sense of hope rather than work in reality.
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Isaiah 5:20
Not surprising they didn’t want to be challenged. They would fold like a lawn chair.
John, please keep on doing what you are doing. You are a voice of reason in a world that seems to be getting crazier and crazier by the day.
He is using diversion as a way of distracting from issues of growth. A bit disingenuous. The issue is marxism has the same problem.
You're one of the crazies if you believe this propaganda.
@QAlba1074 It is propaganda though as it is near the extreme end of the scale. It is disingenuous as it is emphasising some good points and dismissing or not mentioning counter arguments. The extreme left are equally as flawed as they grossly expand the power dynamic explanation beyond its logical end point. I am not picking sides here. Not my country anyway.
I have read many of John Stossel's books (as well as many others) and I have learned enough to recognize baseless, nonsensical propaganda when I see it. And this isn't it! If you want to see "propaganda" tune in to MSNBC or CNN. Joy Reid, Joe Scarborough, etc, etc I'm sure will set the record straight!
@@jerryk3697Joseph Goebbels would be proud of both of you.
Yes I agree that the degrowth movement is ridiculous, because of the anti-capitalism and anti-free market people are just wrong about how to make people live better by killing capitalism, free market and greed. Thank you Mr. Stossel from Indonesia.
Shrinkage. Especially in the number of alive people
@@sdrc92126Yeah that's true...
I love these guys that say we need to get rid of capitalism while wearing their fancy clothes and taking advantage of technology developed because of capitalism. To paraphrase Tom MacDonald, they talk about how capitalism is the problem while they tweet on an iPhone and sip on a Starbucks.
Look where they go, head away from socialism towards capitalism. That says it all.
What if those pushing Degrowth left the planet?
-less flatulence
-less carbon emissions
-more food for the needy
-more jobs and housing
And much more savings
Less stupidity and violence