How Degrowth Can Save The World
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Capitalism is based on the cancerous logic of perpetual expansion, devastating the living world. In the face of ecological breakdown, we need to restore the balance. We need to end the artificial divide between society, economy, and nature. We need degrowth.
Think That Through: / @t3essays
The list of artists used is in the outro.
Introduction - 0:00
Growthism - 2:51
Geoengineering - 13:27
Dualism - 14:42
Reject Growthism - 21:47
How to Degrow? - 24:51
Conclusion - 34:53
Outro - 36:11
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Music:
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outro music: Cedar Womb by joe zempel
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Sources & Resources:
Less is More by Jason Hickel
degrowth.info/degrowth
"Growth for growth's sake is cancer logic" is a 🔥 line
"Growth for growth's sake is a cancerous madness", Edward Abbey, 1968
“Growth for Growth’s sake is a cancerous and it is life’s meaning” Herberto C Soto, 2023
For sure a line I will be using in future
Equating Human Action to cancer is a Genocidal line.
But I think we also have to be aware that "growth" is itself an invention and it's largely decided by the elite what does and doesn't count. Most services didn't count as growth until the 1970's, marketing didn't count until 1990, patents to production didn't count until 1994 and patents to products didn't even exist until 2004. Lawyering services still aren't counted in some countries. On top of that some estimate that close to 15% of all consumer products are produced but subsequently destroyed cause it's usually more profitable to overproduce and discard the excess that produce as needed. That production does count towards "growth" even though nobody got anything out of it.
Food in some countries can go as high as 30% of food destroyed with no reason other than economics.
It's important to realize that the main purpose of GDP is to gain power at the WTO and world bank which the US has used to dominate the world for the past 40 years. GDP wasn't even commonly used as an economic indicator until the 1980's, in the post WW2 era it usually was median wage that was the economic indicator. GDP today is largely a tool of imperialism and an international dick measuring contest.
Rearranging out economy could mean we could cut GDP in half without any relevant material or service losses at all.
Babe wake up, new Andrewism
OMG Babe wake up! "Our world is DIEING. More accurately, it is being KILLED."
Yes Dear, I'm awake.
ohmg I'm hurrying to watch :0
jesus, you have to stop waking me when your favourite youtubers upload.
Straight up
Andrewism videos be sounding like anarchist acapellas with a Caribbean accent 🔥
Album when 👁️
@@Andrewism do it already .
sounds both irish and caribbbean, love it
@@lupitasims5209 I hear Scottish with Caribbean. Either way, he definitely has an interesting accent.
@@lupitasims5209 different islands and classes and ethnicities have different aspects of regional accents from the British Isles + lots of other influences.
Just don't assume that English-speakers with accents from the Islands are Jamaican- good way to antagonize people
Very commonly Trinidad and Barbados have the Irish hint. Parts of the middle and educated classes in Jamaica do too, but it sounds different.
Can you imagine a world without advertising?! That would be a paradise.
@@bti4129 North Korea is rife with propaganda. Definitely not a paradise lol
"While it's true that growth is a natural part of life, it never goes on and on." Thank you for this presentation. Here is an excerpt from the writings of Marshall Vian Summers on this topic.
"Today humanity is like the locust in the field, devouring everything in sight, assuming there will always be new fields... The emphasis in the world is still on growth, on expansion. Whole economic systems are based upon growth and access to ever greater amounts of resources. This cannot continue... Humanity will have to enter a different kind of paradigm, a different kind of emphasis overall that will have to be on stability and security, for you have reached the limits of what growth can produce." (MVS The New World)
Infinite growth is possible though, due to the (virtually) infinite pool of ideas. Innovation isn't even always needed for pure growth, I may soak up a product in a certain market; does this mean I have to improve it? Sure, but I could also re-imagine a spin for it, present it in a different angle/perspective and reinvigorate market activity without innovating.
Infinite growth is possible because there are nearly infinite avenues for growth; but even if this wasn't the case, growth would still be desirable. The problem would simply be finding new resource beds & extracting them after the old ones are used up; something we have an entire universe-worth of. Mankind has never slowed down just to accommodate the lowest common denominators of our species, and we won't be doing it now lmao; tell em' catch up or die a failure.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no Suppelementary to this Video here:
Some More News, OCC, Climate-Town, Second Thought.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no You said it very well ! The only bad things, your realistic and positive thoughts are not outrageous, so it has no place on social media !
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no Ideas and innovation only get you so far. All growth becomes maintenance, which becomes waste. And the cost of maintenance will weigh on growth until growth becomes impossible. Growth ends. Decline begins. Collapse takes place. It is only after there becomes very little to maintain that growth can once more occur.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no cute colonial ideology you've got there 😂
About a year ago I started day dreaming of a "decade of rest". Basically degrowth supported with public works projects, an increase in the commons, standardized 20 hour work weeks, incentivized remote work, increased shipping and freight taxes, and a UBI.
Please lawd!
what is a UBI?
@@acquisitium universal basic income
I love the idea but like... how
How do you do UBI without fueling it with growth, and even degrowing
And how long are these public works gonna take if the builders are working 20 hour weeks
Century*
Yes. I’ve been saying this for decades. It’s been heartbreaking to see our species blindly run off a cliff. Thank you for helping to summarize what has been our greatest mistake, and making it easier to explain to others.
As someone currently studying Ecological Economics, I have to say this is one of the best breakdowns of how all of the inter-related issues explained feed into current crises, and the solutions that are necessitated. Excellent video 10/10.
It’s a shame you are studying the topic and actually believe this is at all feasible. I don’t know what utopian Professor you have but it is troubling. Good luck with your LCEs.
@@Samuel-by1zg the main professor who runs my course, Dan O’Neill, has a Ted Talk called the economics of enough. In academia this branch of economics has actually gained significant traction - it’s just politics and vested interests which prevent it being implemented in the real world. Believe me nobody is under any false belief that politicians or industry leaders are going to take any of these solutions seriously. I studied Environmental Science undergrad and can assure you that deviating from this path will ensure the collapse of civilisation. To quote Slavoj Zizek it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. As George Monbiot said demand the politically impossible and scientifically necessary.
@@Samuel-by1zg Care to eloborate on your reasoning ? Serious question . I am wondering what a kind of synoptic study/examnation of ecoeco and capitalisteco would look like .
@mynameisjoejeans you obviously have a great mind you will be fine don't worry about the nay sayers.
@@mynameisjoejeans awesome answer man u seem like a epic lad
" The same ARROGANT logic that got us into this mess" That part hit my soul man
We don't need more. We need better, for all of us equally. And to truly love the natural world.
It was an honor to be featured here!💖 Lovely to see the degrowth gang getting stronger, and countering all these hit pieces that almost never go beyond "degrowth is a scary word so you should be afraid of it". And the video is as heartwarming and full of hope as always!
And for folks interested in more theoretical side of things, we'll be dropping another vid on degrowth later this month.
Oh, I am watching this video and suddenly see you as a guest! It's so cool to see polish youtuber here.
If you hadn't burst out laughing I'd have been so furious at you.
Bill Gates really does suck. He "projected" so much C19 death in Africa, then insisted we were lying when it didn't happen, then made huge profits "donating" vaccines to us and even then they came almost expired with my country's experience being they couldn't last two weeks meaning hard to reach areas almost never got them. What a toad? ☹️
Edit to add; useless damaging work examples everything happening at IMF, WB, Red Cross/Red Crescent, Oxfam, etc.
@@Huy-G-Le huh
@@Huy-G-Le first off what channel
👍
Wonderful video. The phrase I like to use is "hyperlocalization". Imagine if literally everything one needed in their typical daily life was walkable. Urban gardens optimizing space with vertical growing. Open source neighborhood fabrication/repair/recycling labs. Shared autonomous custom locally-made solar electric vehicles, when needed. Common underground spaces, piping in sunlight via fiber optics. Tool and seed labs. Open free community event, open learning, and collaboration spaces.
I am part of a new project where we are crowdfunding to develop a centrally-located property in my city for an open source solarpunk fab lab/tool & seed library/gallery/free café lounge/co-working co-learning community space, and trying to integrate as many of these elements as possible! Would love to strategize and coordinate with anyone who's tuned into similar ideas and efforts.
Thank you Andrew. This information is exactly what the world needs to hear. I am heavily involved in climate activism and it feels almost impossible to create change under the fist of capitalism. Thank you for speaking so much truth.
Just let the world burn, Orla. It's time for humanity to say goodnight and let nature take back the planet.
I honestly think it ismore usefull to put energy into creating what you think needs to be instead of tying to change what you do not want to be .
When I look at a photo of activists chained to the shut gate of a private jet airport I have a cognitive dissonance problem. I can imagine being an environmental activist and I recognize the enormous carbon footprint represented. But I am sorry to admit that I can imagine having the kind of fuck you money it takes to fly in a private jet (yeah, still talking to you National Geographic and your around the world private jet tours) and I’d feel bemused, if not amused, that someone should tell me how to spend it. Feels weird. Then again, I’ve only flown three times in the last decade.
You can hear the bitter venom dripping from this guy's voice.
I was on board with this neo-marxist garbage for years, but after reading the literature it is based on, and I now understand degrowth, and sustainability actually create what they claim to fight. It's just pure power grabbing evil. Wanna be dictatorship.
One major issue with localized food systems is the reality that significant portions of the world's population rely on the West's grains. Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Algeria, Italy, Haiti, etc... rely greatly on American and French wheat, rice and corn esp when one sees meat and dairy as converted corn via modern stockfeeding.
May nations do not have the soil quality or the capabilities to feed the mouths it currently has. As someone who was highly involved in the local food movements and regenerative agriculture is this sort of transition in many already precarious nations will be absolutely rough.
You can hear some genuine anger in this video in places, and I'm right there with you. It's motivating, in a way, but anger is if nothing else an activating emotion. You make a strong case for degrowth and with every video you put out- this one is particularly aided by your 'Library economy' video- you paint an ever clearer picture of what a post capitalist world would look like, how it would work, how it would feel and it's beautiful. Thank you for the amazing video!
Wrath is no sin. Meekness, no virtue. Hail the wrath of the oppressed. Hail the Adversary of Tyrants. Hail Satan.
@@matthewsteele5229 (keep in mind that last bit is a trap, b/c was an entity invented specifically to be opposed/feared) Rather than something that can be pointed to as an excuse/distraction, what you said might better translate to: "Do what is needed, as needed." (might not be the best way to say it, but hopefully close enough)
@@matthewsteele5229 Ironically, it's Satan who is represents the Tyrants. He purely serves his own ambition and deems it fit to do anything in the pursuit of power, he is the face of the modern oppressor.
Even more ironic is that it's the oppressed who made meekness a virtue lol. Judeo-Christian values of good & evil originated from the backwater slave provinces of Rome, and they molded the value-system according to their lives as weaklings; having wealth & power is bad, being wrathful & exerting dominance is bad, the meek will inherit the earth, etc. all lies to help the oppressed weaklings sleep at night.
The reality, though; is that none of this is true. The meek will gain nothing, and instead shall have everything taken from them by the mighty; as they always have. The meek shall not "inherit" the earth, because the strong have already resolved to *take* it.
The weak will have their cries of oppression crushed underfoot of the stride to power & greatness.
@@honkhonk6359 whatever floats your Langskip, hail yourself🤘
Great breakdown of Hinkle's book! I've been wanting to do something similar to what you do but in Spanish. As an economics student in Colombia, I can attest to the depressing gap of modern economic thought and information between languages.
Please do! I'd like to subtitle this video and the rest in Spanish in the future, pero todavía estoy aprendiendo😂
Yes! If someone ever tells ya to take life seriosly, remind them how serious the sixth mass exctinction is. The ongoing antropocene defaunation goes on despite _anthropos_ itself being fauna.
The other day in Colombia a minister mentioned degrowth and they all made fun of her. The newly minted president stands now for degrowth as an official policy in Colombia, so keep an eye out for yer _vecinos_ in Colombia!
@@Andrewism As you've said, there is a place for technology, when it is used where is most useful. Natural language A.I networks are getting better and better at translating languages, which can lead to ideas reaching those outside the language in which were originally spoken.
@@jose.montojah I'll be sure to keep an eye out to the soon venezuelisation of Colombia
@Andrewism I was looking for a way to add subtitles in Dutch so I could share it in my country and everyone would understand, regardless of their level of English. I can't make videos but I can make a translation if you like. Perhaps others can add other languages. The message is so important, thanks for making this video!
I found a quiet, unmarked series of trails to walk my dog recently. I asked people in the small town I live in what this area was - it seemed like an abandoned development site, but no one knew what it was. Then I walked to the edge of it and realized it was all a giant landfill. It was nearly as big as the town itself and was still expanding. I was overwhelmed at the magnitude of the garbage we were generating from our small town.
I have always felt that the need to generate more “stuff” would drown us all, but it felt like no one was listening.
I found your video to be extremely inspiring, thoughtful and well researched. The colourful and beautiful graphics were a nice touch, too. With all the negativity of the last few years I think many of us have forgotten that political policies stem from cultural ideals: a healthy culture is more likely to support humanistic ideals.
I look forward to watching your other videos!
When I enter a retail store I feel uneasy. So much I don't need. When I visit an indoor mall it feels dystopian to see all the (very overpriced) items.
That's the complete opposite of Dystopian.
@@hime273 It is dystopian because of what it tales to make those items
You must consider that your tastes and what you perceive as your needs aren't shared by other people. There are others who may need the very things that make you feel uneasy.
@@mjt1517
True, but I think there's a lot of manufactured need. People may very well need to buy some cheap clothes at Walmart, but it's because they don't have the money or training to buy or make higher quality, longer lasting clothes, so they're trapped continually consuming cheap junk that'll cost them way more in the long run. It's a model of consumerism that exploits both the workers and the consumers.
I like the library economy idea, I think a lot about the tools that I own that I don't use often, or the tools that I need that I don't own sitting in someone's garage somewhere.
Same. I'm going to see if my library will consider having a section for hand tools, and start shopping around for good additions at estate sales. If it's an idea that works, then I figure the best way to raise awareness and get people on board would be to demonstrate it in action, even if only in a small way.
@eyesofthecervino3366 let me know how it goes, on here if you want. I love the idea 💡
@@justdoeverything8883
Just talked to my library, and apparently they're already putting together a library of things -- they just haven't gone public with it yet. Now I just need to get in touch with the guy in charge and see what all they're looking for :D
How would disabled people fare in degrowth world? I have a central line and it's never coming out at least not for a very long time. There are people who are on breathing machines for life. Many disabled people live technologically advanced lives because we have too. And I often feel like we get forgotten in these particular scenarios.
If the primary purpose of degrowth is for the well-being of all people, then ideally it would factor in the needs of the differently abled. I would imagine the primary reductions in technology would be the excessive luxuries and capitalist profit machines.
Mobility aids, breathing machines, etc are not the target of degrowth. None of the steps towards degrowth I describe from 24:52 onward to bring the economy in line with the limits of the biosphere include gathering all existing technology and destroying it in a bonfire. Conviviality is a must.
@@ineffablecraving8697 I used to have a central line for quite a while. Trust me, I wasn't "differently abled" during that time.
@fizzypopization I only had my central line for a few months, but I did have one, so I can sympathize to at least a small degree. My illness improved...I'm hoping yours eventually resolves, as well.
@@Andrewism With a smaller economy, it'll be much more difficult for people to afford expensive medical equipment, or even have the government pay for them, as tax revenues would decrease. And literally the only reason behind all of this is a slight negative impact on the environment.
Degrowth frustrates me enormously because it's actively politically counterproductive for making climate policy changes in the real world, as well as displaying a bizarrely selective lack of imagination:
If it's not even clear when we could get something like a carbon tax passed in the US, how long do you really think it'd take to popularize the idea of *reducing* our levels of consumption?
The dismissal of nuclear power is also bizarre: The excessive time necessary to complete nuclear reactors is a factor of poorly designed regulations (ALARA, linear no threshold standards and lots of other issues) that could be rapidly changed if there was the will to do so. The vulnerability of reactors to extreme weather is also something that is generally only true in the case of egregious incompetence (as the Fukushima reactor had been warned previously that not moving its backup generators to higher ground would be a risk) and very dependent on reactor design.
Why is it somehow easier for the degrowth progressives to imagine radical political change than some relatively minor regulatory changes?
I think we could easily have decarbonized *decades* ago *and* have a higher level of energy consumption by far had we seriously invested in using nuclear to do so. Even decarbonizing areas like air travel wouldn't be hard as we experimented with nuclear powered planes literally *in the 50's!*
Similarly I think we could absolutely decarbonize most of the way *this decade* if we did a massive Apollo Project scale investment in mass producible passively safe modular nuclear reactors, payed for cargo ships to adopt cheap reliable existing maritime nuclear reactor designs (which they have an incentive to do given like with aviation fuel is their main cost), and lastly shifted towards a robust electric mass transit system (this part might actually be the hardest because rich people love their cars).
A strong case can be made for nuclear power being much more environmentally friendly than solar. Especially the new waste burning reactors. However I think his point about any technology requiring an increase in mining is true. The best I could think of was Gravitricity, which is using old pre-existing mine shafts in order to store grid power without any exotic materials, just a pile of rocks. The problem with all mining is that it's the intersection of human greed and environmental destruction and so there's almost always perverse incentives. Contrast that with digging a hole in your own backyard for a construction project, you'll see that you also plan on how you're going to patch everything up in the end because you have to live with the result.
@@josiah42 Yup, nuclear power is actually very clean and very safe. The only people who think we need to get rid of nuclear are people who have been fed fear-mongering propaganda about nuclear waste and nuclear disasters. People think Chernobyl can still happen, which is ridiculous.
I was a bit worried by all the anti-tech talk in the video, but luckily he never veered into the realm of crazy people who think we need to go back to caveman times. Technology is mankind's greatest strength and we _need_ to keep advancing our tech. Advancement =/= growth, advancement = efficiency. And higher efficiency means less pollution and more people cared for with less waste. He seems to understand this which is good. I've seen so many batshit insane people who think humans never should've gone past the bronze age, as if people were just totally disease-free and happy during those times. There's a reason we advanced beyond those times even though Capitalism hadn't been invented yet - because humans instinctively want to invent and improve their lives.
There are some things I'm just not sure are realistic, though. Like, he says we need to "gut the advertisement industry" and "get rid of the car/plane industries." The problem is, someone will just make their own advertisement/car/plane industry again, and people will pay for it because it provides a conveniece. And what will we do about it? Imprison them? Kill them?
How can we be a peaceful Utopian society, but also force people to NOT engage in Capitalism? See, then it becomes a Dystopian society, where people actually _aren't_ free. It sucks. There may always be conflict because people will always have different visions of how society should be run, even if we dismantled Capitalism.
These are all things that need to be thought about and discussed before proceeding with a plan like the video lays out.
I support the degrowth movement. Thank you for this important video. We all need to be promoting this mission. All power to the people!
All power to the people! I remember how popular that phrase was in the late 60's. I hope we all do a better job this time then we did back then. There were some good ideas, but the old movement was infected with Marxism and patriarchal thought. Those paradigms haven't worked out and it's way past time for new thought and new blood if we are ever to *truly* achieve all power to all the people.
Then start consuming less
Are you willing to accept the massive drop in your quality of life?
@@mossydog2385Being convinced that Marxism is not an option has put us in the position we are in now.
@@danielcreatd872
I think I can do without a lot of my stuff. It's mostly just there because we live in a society tm*
Degrowth is coming for some of us, I think. Many aren't considering a world that can't provide for them.
Friends and gardens will ease them out.
@@ghosthermes Famine and war will take the rest. "Degrow" offers little more than death.
The world provides for all who have the strength to take it lol. There's resources everywhere mate, just don't depend on the rest of the world to gift them to you because you're too weak to stride forth and earn them.
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no who are you talking to?
@@KevinJohnson-cv2no nevermind, I went and read your other comments. You are some dude who fancies himself a warlord. That boss and job got you praying for the ends times, eh? Lmao
My mind is ready for another Andrewism classic.
Andrew, again and again, you give me hope ✨🙏 thank you so much for being who you are and doing the work you do
Just got around to watching this, it is SO good. It covers the topic AND gives specific examples that people tend to demand when arguing against such things.. This will be an invaluable tool.
When as a child I learned that greed is a feature, not a bug, of capitalism, I was deeply unsettled. The adults would phrase it as a good thing. "There are greedy people in the world, and capitalism takes that into account." But a system that rewards greed, creates it, and even the most generous are now forced into avarice for survival.
I had to write the degrowth bulletpoints on my wall so I can look at them every day. I think we can do it. BTW you're an awesome essayist and I'm glad I found this channel.
Can you write them here too, please?
@@ChrisLeeW00
>End planned obsolescence
>End the advertising industry
>Respect the commons
>End monocropping
In no particular order
@@noahboucher125 Agree with all the rest, but we simply cannot feed 8 billion people (and growing) without industrial agriculture. The slight negative impact on the environment is cost we'll have to deal with.
@@danielcreatd872 Look at forest gardens and multicropping.
@@danielcreatd872 it would take some time to get going but it is very possible to feed everyone without industrial agriculture bc industrial agriculture is just not effective as other less enviromentally harmful methods and eventually large scale agriculture could even be completely phased out for something like localized community driven farms that can feed just the people
I often wonder if things like Degrowth will be achieved on international levels from the get-go, or if they'll be started by smaller groups taking the Walkaway route and opting to do their own thing. Was very happy to see ending planed obsolescence up there as a big need! (Walkaway is a novel by Cory Doctorow, and a heck of a good read y'all)
I loved Walkaway. My last video of the year will be talking about how changes like this can be achieved, so look out for that!
whats the walkaway route?
@@tieflingcorpse9817 Referring to a book called Walkaway in this case. Lots of folks just going off into the bush & such to form everything from communes to alternate societies, among other things. Good read!
@@UrdnotChuckles oh ok, not sure that would work tho, youd need alot of people well versed in wilderness stuff
@@tieflingcorpse9817 dont forget who owns the land too, they can push you out like homeless people already are
Great video! Tbh, it feels like such a hopeless battle, this one that we’re in. But i feel that little by little these kind of ideas are being accepted by more of the populace, especially the younger generations.
I’ve always had the intuition that to really save the planet, and ourselves, we’re going to have to need a very very different world. Either way, the easy or the hard, I believe we’re going to get there.
But I’d like to believe we can act and prevent some of the casualties.
I’m disappointed this didn’t cover the elephant in the room: that this is all very academic in light of the fact that it’s an incredibly unpopular concept. And not just in a “no one knows about it” way, but when informed: vehemently opposed to the idea. This sort of discourse can only exist among the faithful, and there are very, very few - even among leftists.
Opposing the status quo has never been easy. The gov't of today are masters of exploiting cognitive dissonances in the collective unconscious of the masses which they themselves have planted the seeds of to begin with.
Agree. This very TH-cam platform is a product of capitalism. But then following blindly an ideology can be dangerous. Staying alert of our choices and the consequences thereof is our best bet for a better, safe and sane future.
IDK chief the current model of growth necessitates the slavery of entire peoples and continued bureaucratic misery of many in '''''first world''''' countries. With the correct rhetorical angel and a dedicated front of policy to cull these practices until a revolution can occur- degrowth as it is described seems obtainable. As Andrew said, this is not a throw everything in the bonfire approach. Use the tools, these corrupted products, to destroy the system- then use them some more to make a better one until they cannot be used anymore.
Thank you and ThinkThatThrough for all your work 🖤
I would love to hear your take on healthcare! I feel like that is one of that major arguments people use against capitalism and current work systems. “If it wasn’t profitable who would become a doctor” lines of thought
26:40 Advertising is fuckin evil. I've always said my ideal form of "marketing" in a post-capitalism world would be similar to a yellow pages phone book. No flashy con artists trying to manipulate your brain, just a basic list of artists, libraries, craftsmen and services in your area. Your bike broke and you need someone to help you fix it? There's 3 bike mechanics in the area. Interested in trying out photography? There's a camera library 2 miles away. Want to paint your apartment but don't know the first thing about painting? Here's a list of painters in your neighborhood, maybe one of them has some spare time and can help show you the ropes. That's about as complicated as "marketing" needs to be.
Your entire channel is absolutely underrated. I have so much respect and appreciation for what you do. Thank you for the video🤘
With great beauty, Lula said that they cannot stop the coming of Spring; but I'm afraid that capitalism and consumerism can.
I hate planned obsolesence, I have some old things that still work and are in good condition and I would love it if policies were made to fight this!
Only halfway through, but this is definitely one of your most concise essays yet! Good shit
If you want to do something directly impactful on the cheap, get local fruits and scatter the seeds around when you go out into your community on walks 😋 You get a good meal, and you end up planting edible foliage in public places where hungry people walk
ideally, you should be using seeds from native fruit species
Incredible video Andrew. Thank you so much for putting all this together. Hoping it’s seen, felt & shared far & wide to ensure we back to a sustainable and liveable future. 🙏🌍🌱
Again, this is why I say "dewaste". Value is based on scarcity so economic growth, to me, is tied to material waste; doing more so that fewer of us get what we need. Growth is fine but growth for its own sake is bad because of waste; capitalism abhors abundance.
Agree. Growth when done properly with regards to the wellbeing of humans, environment and all other that share the space can be a good thing.
I sometimes think degrowth is a shrouded process of trying to Hunger Game the world.
@@wyleong4326 well... Starting with wealthy people in wealthy countries is a process I can support.
Economic growth is certainly tied to material waste. Just look at how much waste is produced by packaging alone, supporting a vast industry of packaging manufacture. Or the obsolescence intentionally introduced in many products either technologically or socially through marketing campaigns.
That’s a great rebranding for a layman’s understanding. Imma be stealing that language from you comrade
Value isn't based on scarcity. Value is based on utility. Scarcity is only one aspect of value.
Great video as always. I think the need for degrowth is clear, yes we do need for certain large scale processes to happen for our needs to be met, but consumption can be drastically scaled back as many of these processes shift local or are eliminated. Are you familiar with "seeing like a state"? I've just started reading it and it gets into a lot of how states create and catalogue information by destroying complexity. Seems very relevant to the topic at hand and also like it might interest you.
Excellent book, read it last year and I'm hoping to cover some of it next year in a video!
@@Andrewism Looking forward to it!
@@Andrewism How do you propose keeping material standards of living from dropping too far while our economy is scaled back to mid-20th century levels?
Thank you for the beautiful, relevant paintings.
Watching this video gave me a sudden idea on the establishment of such a community within the modern environment.
I'm American so it comes from such a perspective.
1. Found a new religion (the Church of Andrew or some play on that strikes me as particularly amusing)
2. Acquire 501c3 status for tax exemptions
3. Purchase lands using collective donations
4. Develop the lands and establish infrastructure to make them livable
5. Use the new lands to house the community (it might be best to prioritize those that are directly struggling under capitalism)
6. Repeat steps 3-5 to help further people
There won't be any property taxes so the only concurrent expenses will be living costs. After a further period of development, these costs could minimized with a high internal sufficiency.The ideal is for it to be the case that residents of the community pay nothing to live there, which gives them the time to improve the community to help others live there as well.
It doesn't have to be a religious organization necessarily, but if it were, it allows for much more freedom on the use of funds from a legal perspective.
Yup. Visited one a handful of years ago in ca. Was in the sierra nevada foothills, yogi Hinduism sort of setup, but really you could do this by purchasing an apartment building and even converting some units or floors to community areas, day care, etc..
@@thesayerofing I would struggle to find a good place to buy an apartment building. A lot of American municipalities have some pretty community-unfriendly laws. They also do things like force you to pay for city utilities regardless of whether or not you're using them. 501c3 exemption applies only to federal taxes and a lot of places are super discriminatory against non-Christian groups which further hinders the ability to be tax exempt. It's quite possible that there do exist ideal locations to buy apartment buildings, but I don't know of them. Another benefit of rural land is that it provides for greater scalability. Land also happens to be dirt cheap in the deserts of the South-West. However, it's also the case that such an organization could be representative of a multiplicity of local communities that owns both rural and urban land.
Regarding #1: This is the problem education/science has in the U.S. Freedom of Religion is regularly abused to teach religious values over scientific principles, because there is no "freedom FROM religion" and so religion must be allowed since it is protected.
Wow you've really fired my imagination up 🤯
Thanks for sharing your idea!
I love the idea of taking an apartment and turning it into a self sufficient communtiy. Convert some floors to food gardens, others to communal leisure and labour spaces. Sounds like a dream!
@@Vaeldarg Not really sure what you mean by that. It's pretty illegal to teach both religious and political values in public schools. When I was in school, this was heavily enforced. Science is hard because people's brains are not logical machines but rather rely significantly on intuition and heuristics. Many people think that their thought processes are logical, but rather they are very intuitive. In fact, people often use the word "logical" to describe their ideas when the more appropriate word is "intuitive". Now, I would argue that there is indeed indoctrination in school but it is not Christian in form but rather Statist. From the pledge of allegiance to the drilling of obedience, to the discouragement of creativity, schools' objective is to "educate" in the sense that it aims to teach children to be good little wage slaves working for righteous and all-mighty government. From that perspective, the purpose of school is not the expansion of knowledge and so I would say that religion actually has minimal impact on the inefficacy of education.
Absolutely brilliant video, I couldn't have summarised this perspective better. I believe this is the only path we have to survive, thrive and develop ourselves together. Will be sharing, thank you for your time and effort in making it
I love how this discussion is developing. Great work Andrew!
This is franlkly one of the best syntheses / introductions I've seen of the "degrowth" philosophy. Congratulations !!
THANK YOU for discussing the issue of 'renewable' energy and its impacts on people and environment. We can't fix our energy issue by infinitely trying to get more energy - we have to USE LESS energy.
Your videos always teach me something new, I'm grateful to know your channel!💛
Was waiting several months for this one to drop, and it did not disappoint. Your vids are 100% top of my list, especially on a bad day. One thing I will say - the distinction you drew between dualism and animism is an interesting one. I had always considered the separation of humanity from nature a result of "humanism" or "modernism", which I think are both isms that feed into what you described as dualism - the hubris that says that nature is something to control, to dominate, to separate ourselves from - but I hadn't really considered the dichotomy between that mindset and animism. Love it, thanks for the insight.
I've always called it anthropocentrism x)
Prideful humans who think there's god above them and animals below them. Center of the cosmos, masters of the nature. Modernity in its finest, lol.
As a Osage nation citizen the best way I describe our kinships with non human beings. Is by telling people that we have adopted a Panentheistic Phenomenological lens of viewing the world
Dualism actually takes it roots from Platonist thought. Later Judaism picked it up through Greek influence, and Christianity built its whole framework around the idea. Western counter-thought (atheism, humanism, scientism) kept that artifact as a product of latent Christianity. For more on that, @Ocean Keltoi has a good video.
Granted, this is all very euro-centric, as most philosophy is.. but imagine what could’ve been if the West had built built its modern economic, social, and scientific foundations on animism instead of the supremacy narratives inherent to dualism. What a dream.
To play artificer's advocate: If nature didn't want us to manipulate it, it shouldn't have based every living thing it creates on something so programmable (to the point of being easy to accidentally manipulate in unintended ways).
I don't agree with your library model to replace ownership. The problem is not ownership, the problem is mindless consumption, which involves not ownership (at least not how I define it), but rather people actually not taking full ownership and care of the stuff they buy, so after they come down from the dopamine high of getting new stuff it just sits there. I buy very few newly manufactured things outside of food and household items, and the stuff I buy I take very good care of and it lasts me many years, some of my tools will probably outlast me. My experience with the library way of doing things, is nobody really cares about the stuff that is passed around, so it either sits on a shelf and is never used, or it breaks quickly and needs replacement. I know, on the surface it seems really appealing to things this way, but in my experience reality doesn't really agree with the idealism here, and I think it is not the most resource efficient way of doing things. To put it in fewer words: Tell people they can only have one camera, and they'll take very good care of it. Tell people the library can only have 10 cameras this year and they won't.
Yes! A new Anderwism! I logged onto TH-cam at the right time. Thank you for what you do 💜
also: let's fix the education system while we're on it
While I found this a nice watch, I often wonder if people think about the feasibility of any of these suggestions given the world we have right now. "Also, we need to get rid of air travel" - like, yeah, sure. While I think it'd be nice to accomplish what we really want (a reduction in CO2 dumping into the atmosphere) does anybody actually think about people who want to travel around the world to see global community they're a part of? I personally would have added that engineering wind-propelled (it's coming back) ships be an alternative, but the caveat is that people will be at sea for up to a week. Even if more in society are willing to accept that (and that's possible if the extractive properties of capitalism on people's time is undone), you still have to get the majority of Earth on board. The thing about videos like this is that feasibility is almost never discussed, only "what needs to happen". I know that would make this video much longer, and do acknowledge the suggestion regarding doing away with over-production by creating a "rental economy" of sorts where there are libraries of tools. I personally would have liked to see more of that in this video, as much of the suggestions will be pie in the sky for many who are focused on solutions. I did enjoy the video much, though.
I get info-saturation at about 12 minutes. Your work is very fact-dense, and of course that makes it serious and respectable. But it takes me a few times to get thru it. If others are like me, and I dunno about that, you might find it more effective to make 4 10-minute vids than one 36 minute one. Awesome work.
The more of such content you watch, the easier it becomes to watch. You become familiar with the values and philosophies and there is less density of new information with every video as the facts get repeated
Try to watch without any distraction first
Read 'Less is More' by Jason Hickel and it will all makes sense.
Eh. I watch youtube all day and I would rather have a longer video.
it's not "info-saturation", you just have a short attention span
@@TheVicenteSilva this, or op's brain just isn't able to process this much information. Hell i just watch this videos as entertainment because i find most of these ideas just unpolished mess with fact bias, emotion based and delusional, but i can process everything that's being said.
My advice for op is to watch more informational videos, read more, stop watching tiktoks and shorts if you're doing so and you'll be able to listen to this videos as your daily average podcast.
I wish this video could get many, many times the views it will actually get. Also, I do hope you do a video on Animism vs. Dualism. I just get a feeling that will be amazing.
Neuroplasticity is truly key here, it will take a lot of effort to switch people’s motivation systems from external (the use of force by money) to internal (motivated by the common-good, i think Ubuntu Philosophy could further unpacked to help this step out possibly)
The problem is internal motivation can’t be made proportional to the desires of others but external motivation can.
@@venusianblivet9518 maybe but what if it wasn't an individualist mindset (what we have now) and people see themself apart of a interconnected system ?
@@gabl1459 That’s great for the people who do end up thinking like that, not so much for the people who don’t.
Isn’t this just idealism? We need to change the material conditions that can result in a degrowth economy and with that peoples thinking will change. Capitalism will ofc also help to create these conditions as no one wants to see the world burn for too long and people will want or need change. We cant only depend on trying to convince people that some new idea is better.
@@venusianblivet9518 interconnectedness is a fact of existing if you look closely enough, it's only a particular type of education that brings the idea that it isn't true tho
I love your thoughts and ideas about degrowth, but it makes me crazy that there are so few groups, parties etc that promote these ideas in the actual society.
I wonder why that is.
yet another great video. thank you, Andrew, for your dedication to educating the rest of us.
Was waiting for you to talk about Degrowth based economics.
quick question, how will online content creaters earn a living w/o advertising? for most indie animation and music productions donations usually aren't sufficient to pay ppl for the amount of work needed to produce it
Capitalism as the *private* ownership of the means of production (and everything else) is a specific (and lately the most damaging) form of the *restricted influence on* the means of production, society, and human experience. The degrowth conversation and other conversations about avoiding widespread ecological collapse always seem to attract a few people who want to *further* restrict the range of parties that are involved, but the neo-monarchists and the eco-oligarchs and the like all would just kick the problem from "capitalism specifically" back to "decisions made by and for some people with the consequences pushed on everyone and everything else."
Thank you for keeping the focus on the need for actual broad community (among humans) and symbiotic (more broadly) solutions.
I think this is one of your best videos to date. It has given me a lot of food for thought. Thank you.
This might be my favorite of your video essays. I've already shared it 4 times ❤️
I love your videos. They explain everything so succinctly and give me so much hope for the future! Especially as someone from the UK, who's country is full of selfish pricks and greedy politicians. I wish there was a way to perform radical action to transform society straight away.
Thank you for sharing and spreading this idea and making it accessible to the (Internet) commons.
Degrowth is one of several tools described in urban design (albeit from institutions that benefit from the status quo), and I would like to spread the word, too! Exponential growth is impossible, so let's take it easy and just live (like the slug).
degrowth is one of the few theories i feel that can be applied worldwide (accomodating it to each country needs) and one of the few theories that give me hope, yet i feel like its very utopic to change cultures system of thinking and values
Such a good video!!!!! I love the sketches and features you’ve adding
I like the collaboration with Think That Through.
You guys are putting out amazing content.
Been following your channel for a while and loved the content on children, wellness, and work.
Amazing to see you talking about Degrowth. 👌🏾
Loving your work.
From ideas on animism and non-humans as persons though, I ask you what do you think on veganism?
This is such a hopeful and powerful message. Thank you as always.
Many thanks for this video, I just stumbled on it, I had never heard of Degrowth as a movement or a working economic model before, though I very much had been talking and thinking in terms of living with less, so thanks for pointing a way 🙏
Fantastic! So succinct, thorough, and inspiring. Every sentence packed a punch. Thank you.
I would suggest you check out Thorium nuclear reactors. While not perfect, they cannot melt down, the half-life of the waste is way less than plutonium or uranium based reactors, and the waste itself is easier to contain. While not perfect, I do believe that thorium reactors are a great transitionary technology away from fossil fuels.
Only problem is how long it takes to build a nuclear reactor. Without Chinese ghost city levels of plqnning and "economic stimulation" there's no way enough could be built on time.
@@thekingoffailure9967 that’s only if you build large conventional nuclear reactors. Smaller scale modular reactors could solve that issue
Sorry I am really tired of other people on the left not addressing both components of growth. Unless your idea of degrowth means you don't intend to increase the standard of living in the global south then population must be a component. Lets not be utopians who ignore externalities that we find unpleasant, just examining China's share of CO2, consumption of timber, fish and waste as it extends services to thitherto never had them from 1980-2022. Of course a poor person, subsistent farmer/fisher or indigenous person isn't part of over consumption but they will be if they achieve what now is considered the global necessities.
So population must be part of the equation and anyone who claims otherwise just doesn't want to deal with reality. We on the left must hold others to be accountable AND ourselves, because lots of us are hypocrites whom are happy to do nothing while pointing at others.
I liked you before but your recent efforts have been absolute bangers. Love the fury. So inspirational comrade!
I appreciate that! Thank you!
"if we act quickly, we can see change sooner than we think" I hope your'e right. I really do.
Beyond based! You've given me some hope, friend... THAT is extremely hard to accomplish in these times. Thanks ✊️
You are doing something really important here. Thank you!
St. Drew, thank you. I learn so much from you and you give me hope. You are a candle in my darkest night.
This is a really good video! Held a lot of the important points of some books I've been reading, without losing anything.
29:43 free range farming is actually even more environmentally destructive and takes more space if you want to produce the same amount of meat, so the only real solution is to cut down on meat in general
I think it's also important to mention that growth under capitalism rarely correlates with better living conditions for the majority. I live in Denmark, which is a first world country, and here even though supposedly we've gotten way richer since the 60s we apparently can't pay for the welfare we could easily pay for back then like a pension age of 65, a large public healthcare system with well payed nurses and a public education system where people can take their time and focus on education and teachers aren't overworked. We had all of those in the 50s and 60s but now we apparently can't afford it, it's said it's because we live longer but I sorta suspect it might have more to do with the fact that the corporation tax is essentially 0 these days when it used to be much higher.
Looking at some stastics for a few minutes will clearly tell that the economy is more prosperous than ever. And the video is advocating for stripping back all the progress we've made.
But we can't simply get rid of _all_ technology. We need advanced medical equipment to keep people alive, for example. How will you build something like a CAT-scan machine or artifical heart valves without at least _some_ factories? How can you efficiently power these machines with no technology?
Humanity needs _some_ technology for better living standards. And, I'll have to disagree with you - because on average, humanity is living in a time where mortality and disease have never been lower. Capitalism _does_ inspire competition, because a better product will sell more than a faulty one. This has lead to some truly marvelous advancements.
I agree with you that we don't need _all_ technology. We obviously don't need all the plastic garbage and merchandise that brand names shovel out every day. We don't need consumerism. And we can switch away from fossil fuels to cleaner alternatives like solar, wind, or nuclear.
But humanity needs technology. And it's in our blood to invent and improve society. If you try to strip society of technology, you will be met with resistance by people who disagree with you. And they'll have technology - including guns, tanks, planes, bombs, etc. So, good luck convincing them.
I'm not trying to start a fight btw, just some things for you to consider if you're serious about your comment.
Andrew I love what you do!
I studied social science and turned away from that work field to go into social work because I felt that it's more direct impact and got tired of seeing what's wrong and not being able to act/change.
Still I drift away a lot in my daily life thinking about society and your videos just seem to read my thoughts and give a more sophisticated scientific background to my ideas and feelings.
I am intrigued by how you get to the point and can break things down for a broad audience. You achieved what I turned my back on cause I didn't believe it was possible. You found a way out of the segregated scientific sphere and your words actually reach a lot of people and may actually contribute to a change of society.
I was far from unsuccessful in the field but I just saw myself putting my all into it and end up as a Dr. /prof. who writes texts that only scientific peers read, politics and elites read, ignore and suppress if it's against there interest.
Maybe, if I found your channel earlier I'd have turned into a German copy cat of your channel ;)
In the end I am glad where I am:, Fighting at the ground, working and being with people, creating and sharing instead of getting lost in my head.
This was so incredibly well said! Sharing far and wide! Thank you!
My personal definition of Capitalism is “the worship of the golden bull called profit”. It’s my favorite definition because it has connotation to that bible story about the golden calf.
I’m glad people make videos like these. One thing I want to share though is that when my friend tried to debunk socialism he tried to say that “it’s human nature to always desire more, and therefore take from others”, but while it’s part of human nature to endlessly desire things, taking from others is a thing that’s socialized and taught. It’s no wonder people think it’s human nature to take from others when they live in a system that incentivizes people to take from others. If we can acquire a different economic system, we can change the social values. My friend has since become more accepting of socialism.
I know this isn't the point, but don't just focus on forests! Grasslands! Prairies! North America needs its prairies back!!
That Frantz Fanon quotation was terrific, as is your whole video. I will read Fanon now, and spread this message.
Ohhh, let's go a new video! Amazing content, keep it up man
The Think That Through segment was _chef's kiss_
Beef isn't evil, its just not done right, I dont think lab grown meat is more sustainable than responsible meat production. Cattle and other ruminants turn grass into milk and meat, if you have one or two servings of pasture raised meat a week its actually really healthy for you. And tere is a lot of land that isn't practical for agriculture that can be grazed. Some landscapes evolved with grazers and requre them for functioning, they improve top soil rather than degrading it. Westerners do it far too much meat, and people in poorer countries could eat a bit more, and we would still see a big net reduction in cattle.
such a great video, thank you for giving hope and ways of action!
High five! I appreciate your channel. I stumbled on this path by randomly watching one of Nate Hagen's Earth Day presentations. I'm now on a journey to work out how to get my own Great Simplification on. It started with taking my gardening more seriously and starting making my own compost. There's more to it, but that's my start.
Thanks for this!
Great video as usual, any plans to make a video about avoiding doomerism/not losing hope? It's getting harder and harder these days ngl
My ancestors remind me that we lived the harmonious ways before and we can live that way again, because they are still with us in the genetic code they passed down all the way to us. I don’t know precisely how, but we will find our way if we follow the lush, inviting path.
I made a video talking about the psychology of collapse a year ago! th-cam.com/video/VPrimu4zP0o/w-d-xo.html
In the 90s we had 3 R's: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. The first two have been under-promoted and forgotten because only Recycle allows continued production of goods.
I'm pretty sure the amount of deaths caused by demolishing a completely industrialized economic system would be much greater than even the worst ecological disasters. Maybe we should keep workshopping this one.
Fantastic video Andrewism. But I fear its only the likeminded among us that would live this way. I look around and everyone is just in their phone, obsessed with the latest trends. It's like the matrix said "not everyone is ready to be unplugged, most are so hopelessly dependent on the system they will fight to protect it"
It's sad but it's true its easier to imagine the world ending than an end to capitalism.
How can we convince the masses to give up their materialistic worlds, the convenience, and turn against the system?
Show them, give them hope, and give/show them the tools to do so comrade
You will be amazed at those who will lift themselves and eachother out if you show them the ladder
The Reality or the climate crisis and it's effects on the economy will rip their precious decadence away from them soon enough.
And when they have nothing to grasp onto, it's our job to give them solutions and a hand up, before the fascists scare them into supporting eco-authoritarianism.
The way is to make them jealous of your natural, harmonious life so they want it for themselves.
Well, what if we had the government use force to make everyone live like this? Totally not give people a choice or even allow them to speak against it.
Baby steps, probably. I'm not sure I'm on board with a lot of stuff this guy talks about, but I'm already very much on board with a lot of aspects of the direction he wants things to go: intentional, minimalistic living over consumerism and being trapped in the rat race; self-sufficiency instead of depending on (and supporting) large corporations; community lifting each other up instead of everyone struggling individually. Maybe it really could be as simple as donating tools to our local libraries, or raising backyard chickens and sharing eggs with neighbors, or offering to help someone set up a garden who's maybe looking for ways to save money, but is already too overworked and overwhelmed to get started. Just, practical ways to put these ideas into action, so it's not some rando proselytizing them with some abstract, radical ideology. It's their weird but nice neighbor who lives comfortably and eats well, but still has time for cool hobbies and being helpful because they can afford to only work part-time because they're not really paying for anything except for housing, basic needs, and a new tire or chain for their bike every now and then -- and hey maybe that's not such a bad idea after all.
This. This is the kind of hopeful vision we need.
This channel keeps my head up.
Andrew can voice my absolute despair into short, perfect harsh true sentences. Thank you, I will share this video to everyone I know. We have to do something. Less is more for ruck's sake.