Ford cancels EV battery orders after losing $120,000 per EV sold
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- Ford cancels EV battery orders after losing $120,000 per EV sold
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I'm favoured, $22K every week! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless America.
As a beginner what do I need to do? How can I invest, on which platform? If you know any please share.
Investing in crypto/forex is a good idea,
a good trading system would put you
through many days of success.
Investing $15,000 and received $174,000
Same, I met Mrs Anna Davis last
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YES!!! That's exactly her name (Mrs Anna ) so many people have
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just starting with her 😊 from United States
The fact that EVs have been politicized in the US does not help.
We have a candidate who wants to "make America great again" by shutting down EVs and pumping more oil and mining coal. And the other candidate wants to "Build back better (?)" by putting a 100% duty on cheap Chinese EVs.
We are screwed.
Ice ice victory 😂
The regime has politicized everything to their benefit. Global warming is a huge money maker for the regime, but Musk + X have complicated things for the regime. They need to figure out how to continue the global warming gravy chain and destroy Musk (the leader in EV's).
Trump wants to sell the PRESIDENCY to the highest bidder. OIL is leading the bidders. What a TRAITOR,imho.
@@cutehumor The rest of the world is way ahead on EVs. We keep them out and the Big 3 refuse to make decent ones. USA and Japan are going down.
The irony is Jim Farley got to the root of Ford's EV cost problem, which is excessively high-priced NMC batteries in all of their EV's, and negotiated a cleverly-structured CATL technology agreement that would have seen Ford making its own LFP batteries at a fraction of the cost in a new plant in Marshall, Michigan. When local Republicans (both politicians and riled-up citizens) got wind of Ford working with the Sino-Devil, construction on the new plant was halted in late 2023. Elon Musk was nimble enough to make Telsa's switch to LFP, but Farley got hamstrung by beltway bozo's.
Catl has since restructured plans and will allow other countries to build it's lfp cells using licensing agreements.
So catl helps design build&setup the cell factory, then licenses out the tech and the licensee owns the plant&equipment plus staffs it.
So much for voting for the GOP.
@@AllDogsAreGoodDogsgop are market based not govt mandate based. Chinese EVs are cheap because they are subsidized by the govt. Also doesn't hurt that they are vertically integrated. I just got back from China and nobody I talked to likes EVs there. Funny enough they gave the same reasons as the people here.
@@marklihsu Vertically integrated, like Henry Ford's Model T factory. It's coming back with a vengeance.
You are exactly right. The US is so worried about China that they are killing off their own auto industry without knowing it. Fords CATL licensing deal was crushed because of politics even though the batteries would be made in the US giving good jobs and allowed lower prices to US consumers. The US answer is to increase tariffs on EV's by 100%, refuse allowing US auto makers from using cheaper Chinese batteries and go back to gas powered cars. They really think that the rest of the world is going to follow, lol. EV's are the future. Period. All they are doing is causing their auto industry to fall further, and further behind. By the time they realize this, the rest of the worlds EV auto industries will be running at full efficiency and choke the life out of them. Too bad... because I liked Ford too.
If they loose $120,000/car they sell then they are saying the truck cost them $200,000 to build. BULLS..T!
Its just the cost of rolling it and making changes divided into the cars.. If they sell 1000 lighnings a year and it cost 50 million for the plant, some will say it cost 50,000 on top of the cost of each lightning.
Efficiency problem
People Don’t want to pay more?
Sam, can’t afford to pay more is more accurate.
The cost of fuel and maintenance makes EVs cheaper. That is why fleets are changing to them. If you drive very little not so much. It also depends on government incentives. I got a free Nissan Leaf after 4k rebate in Oakland ca. Charge with plug in solar. Panels are on a fence, inverters plug into an outlet.
@@hoffinger yeah but youre driving a leaf lmao
People can't afford to buy a Ford EV and Ford can't afford to sell them! Bye, Bye, Ford, hello cleaner air, less deaths.
people don't know how to add. They don't look at lifetime cost. They look at the price tag. People are even convinced to buy when prices like 49,999 are offered as opposed to rounding up to 50,000.
I looked at the Ford offerings and I bought a Tesla Model 3. I tried to buy a Ford EV but they don't really seem to care. So sad
Same. The experience was a total turn off at a local Ford dealership.
Dealers hate them.
I have both. The Mach-e is the superior vehicle, though the Model 3 is well suited for local driving. The better comparison would be a Model Y but the Mach-e would still come out on top IMO.
That said, there are two different sales processes, one of which involves a dealer. Need we say more. The OEMs claim that dealers "add value". Hmmmmmm......
I looked at Tesla offerings, and bought a REAL pickup truck.
someone said recently "if you buy anything but a tesla today you're making a mistake" or something to that effect
A lot of people are just driving their old ICE cars to death, waiting for cheap EVs that they can afford. Like me, for example, with my old Honda Jazz with 150k on the clock, praying it won't die before the good times arrive.
The good times !! Be careful of what you wish for.
Yep, the good times. When Australia is awash with magnificent, affordable, electric cars to suit any budget. Oh, how I yearn for this beautiful era to begin.
@@robertfonovic3551 considering the gvt of australia has in the last year paid the fossil fuel industry 14.5 billion dollars in a year thats 5x the amount the bs trumpeted housing emergancy boost cost, in other words tell the ludites to piss off no lollies ever again and build 5x more than the planned number of houses promised, and end import costs for fuel and over priced american and japanese ice junk
I am sacrificing small animals to my the Auto goddesses to keep my Accord Euro going until an EV Rav 4 sized SUV is under 50k. 🤞
@@robertfonovic3551...for a world getting damaged quite a bit less...and less people rotting away because of cancer.
I just bought a new Mach-E Premium for only $44k. This EV downturn is a bonus to get some of us a good deal. For the miles I drive it will save me $4k a year in fuel savings. Even if depreciation is tough it’s still worth it.
An ICE car will save you over 72hours of your life every six months not fretting while looking for a place to charge. Look , there is a charging station . Poo, thieves stole all the cables to sell as scrapped copper.
The average American spends $179 a month on gasoline, and you're spending $333. You must do a heck of a lot of driving.
@@ChickensAndGardening In just my personal vehicle I drive 30k miles a year. Plus the car I replaced with the Mach E took premium. Last year I spent $6k in fuel for it. This year electricity should cost me about $1500 at our .13 rate but insurance and license are more expensive. That’s how I came to the savings number. Plus I was doing 4-5 service trips to the dealer for oil changes and now I don’t need that either.
@@SnappyWasHere You don't represent the rest of America then. Thanks for sharing. Next.
@@MNTrader2012 So what is good for some and not others has to be vetoed by you? I don’t understand why you thought that comment benefited anyone. You can drive whatever you want, just let me share my experiences with those curious about switching to an EV.
Yeah, a 3 row SUV would be perfect to transport two people 3 miles to the local supermarket.
As would pick-up that can tow a caravan 120 km.
Yep, dont worry about all the extra weight you're dragging around for no benefit.
Why not buy an eTrike? 6mi round trip is nothing, and it will easily handle groceries.
To acquire, an eTrike will cost a max of $3k, costs next-to-nothing to run, and you can ride it to nearby woods for fun!
Seems to solve a bunch of problems...
@@AllDogsAreGoodDogsis it better than train ?
I was at Kodak when they were making the stupid decisions about digital cameras made from cheap plastic. Dumb. Such hubris by upper management.
Elon Musk has the same stupid hubris. No LIDAR for FSD? Phantom braking?
@@bubuneowoo6161😂 Do humans need Lidar to drive NO they only use sight
@@user-zo2pc5lu5qi think humans have built in Lidar.
those that chose to ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
wrg
Remember the days when many were predicting that Ford and/or GM would catch and pass Tesla? Was that 12 months ago?
definitely 2023. My buddy is a die hard elon hater. that is all I heard was that the lightning is out. Telsa sucks because they havent released the CT. And the MachE was out. and no matter what he said it was going to destroy the model Y.
He is definitely a Kool aid drinker and believes autopilot is dangerous and kills everyone. He would not even activate it. when I let him drive my tesla.
It’s BYD they have to watch.
@@tatata1543 This will be cokblocked by government, with tax and tarriff to keep them from making cars in the US. at prices lower than ford can make them. BYD would probably have to start making them in mexico so that ford cant block imports without making it more expensive for ford to make cars.
@@BarryObaminable They can’t stop them making cars in Mexico and NAFTA then gives them access to the US market. That solves that problem.
Ford and GM may have announced such a thing, but no one believed them. Tesla is so far ahead at least in EV's not to mention investor confidence - their market cap is ten times that of either GM or Ford.
The Ford dealership here has 7 EV's on the lot for almost a year.People know what happens at the dealers.You get ripped off
Legacy auto will never make a profit with EV's because they don't have EV infrastructure and tech which is totally different from ice infrastructure/tech
Our local Ford dealership, Anderson Ford went all in on EV's and at Christmas time last year had 50 Mach E's for sale. As of this weekend, they had 38 of those same cars. This even though they are offereing up to $19K discounts on some of them. You see the same thing across the nation. This is why Ford is cancelling battery orders.
This is why I’m considering a Mach e Gt performance. The discounts and 0% financing
@@jimhimes3506 If you stand the depreciation it is a good time to buy.
The F-150 lightning makes no sense. People that need to tow are better off with gas. For the trades, EV is a risk. The Cybertruck and Rivian is much more appealing for the people that really do not need a truck (about 70% of the market). People that buy EV's think differently (early adopter, risk takers), they want something different. The F-150 lightning is not different.
@ericgregori
The F-150 would be great. If it wasn't half fast designed.
It's basically a ICE platform modified for Ev use. Versus an ground up optimization.
Very non-optimal cooling configuration, with pipes everywhere. Electric heater instead of a heat pump.
Miles of extra wiring...
Many off the shelf parts, not optimized for a production environment. Expensive to manufacture because of this.
Anemic battery pack for a truck. Should be an option for 200kWh or larger. Then hauling could be done without the significant short range issues...
Yup. This is the same all over America. The Viking dude is probably clueless or in denial.
A different storey in the UK with the ZEV mandate, A friend who is in line for a company car found it very difficult to buy a Ford ICE car at the dealership who told him no new ICE cars will be in the showroom for quite a while. He tried at several dealerships to no avail with only BMW selling him anM3 3 series ICE car with a three-month lead time.
They're pushing EV's first & foremost to minimise the £15k fine for every over-sold ICE vehicle. Twice as bad for Ford as they sell a lot of ICE vans here & will get clobbered for £11k for every ICE van oversold too.
@@TopazDreamer-qu2tn It's a UK thing to get legacy auto to transition to electric."The UK now has the most ambitious regulatory framework for the switch to electric vehicles of any country in the world, thanks to new laws which commenced today (3 January 2024)"
@@lancpudn And its failing!
@@nottmfunguy Not from what I'm reading, Ford has already warned of higher prices for petrol diesel cars to hit their ZEV mandate targets.
Vauxhall, Peugeot and Citroen, also warned it could restrict sales of cars in the UK in response to the ZEV mandate.
Mmm, company car in the UK BEV benefit in kind 2% M3 ICE 37% so annual tax bill for a 20% tax payer is £288 for the I4 M50 vs £5,981 for the cheapest M3! Must really really hate EVs.
Increased losses are actually covering up ICE decline. The costs of their EVs didn't skyrocket when they cut R&D spend and are not ramping or building new factories for EVs
Ford E-Transit was such a cool vehicle. and the demand is still through the roof.
They will have a new version soon.
This is what i told my buddy. Make a vehicle cheap to run and maintain. make it so the boss can track it on computer.
It will sell itself.
Also. make a ford excape EV Make a version with smaller battery 200 miles but has FAST CHARGING
companies will buy these and rent them out to drivers. a car that has fat tires gets minimal rim damage on city streets.
It drives 25mph average. It doesnt even need to be fast. a Chevy Bolt sized motor. 30-40KWhrr battery. It will get 250 miles in the city. not that it matters because it can FAST CHARGE.
Mr Farley is scared
For himself? Nah. His financial future is secure. He expected to get fired last October, so he's doing great! Bill Ford XIII fires CEOs regularly on their 3rd anniversary.
Looking like Chris Farley these days.
Good.
@@alancane1482 They were cousins. He mentions some funny stories on his podcast
Without giga press technologies, legacy car companies will likely go out of business before too long. They are behind the 8 ball now.
"Kodak didn't want to be Kodak anymore but they just didn't have a choice". Brilliant!
Its too late for the legacy Auto makers.
I have a feeling that EV's may have a similar future to bitcoin - not quite ready for prime time yet and might never be . We'll see . We're living in a volatile period of time so all bets are off on anything lol .
The X factor has proven correct over, and over. When there's a disturbance in technology X happens
Sandy Munro said that the F-150 is by far the best EV truck for trades. What a shame it wasn't a Ranger for the rest of the world and slightly less than $250,000 Aussie Dollar Bucks.
Or a Rivian? The new Rivian "2" model is cool! And the R1 models are, too, but the price is high.
The first iteration of the Lightning was fatally flawed. Reports of getting only 100 miles of range when hitched to an RV. Ford needs to fix this issue, and give it 400+ miles range in general, and it will then probably do pretty well, unless they price it too high (which is likely).
My money (literally) is on a partnership between Ford and Tesla. Must does not want to make cars, he wants to innovate. Ford does not want to innovate, they just want to make cars. I could see Tesla splitting into a manufacturing company and an innovation company (maybe XAI). Musk would be the CEO of the innovation company and someone else would be CEO of the manufacturing company (Tom Zhu, Lars, ... ). The manufacturing company would manufacture platforms (battery, motor, electronics) for Ford. A Mache-E with Tesla EV IP + FSD would be the most amazing EV on the planet (I really like the looks of the Mach-E). An F-150 with Cybertruck tech would put Rivian out of business.
Musk would continue to do what he does best - Innovate (new manufacturing techniques, sensors, software, FSD, robots, charging). Ford can do what it does best, make the same thing over and over again. Farley has just the right temperament to make this a possibility. Barra is too narcissistic and egotistic,
What would be awesome is some sort of used BYD or Chinese ev market where the cars make it to the US or north America.
I've watched the EV hype for several years. I even invested in one of the start-ups. I am now 100% convinced that the only path to full EV adoption is thru PHEV's. The EV industry has A LOT to work out to become profitable, reliable, efficient, and supported. We have cheap and accessible gasoline today, so plug-in hybrid is the only platform that makes sense to begin the slow and long transition from ICE to EV.
Sorry.
We have had 30 years to move from fossil fuels to renewable. We need to move directly to full EVs. Ditch the gas
@@caterthun4853 Whatever you say.
At least Ford genuinely tried, unlike most other legacy OEMs.
Tried far too late. Legacy knew ZEV was on the way for decades. Even if they were not selling EVs or EVs in numbers they should have had been busy with electric in the R&D departments. Ford's EVs should be first choice. The Lightning and Mustang were not all in efforts.
I don't see it that way over here in the UK at least. We have one Ford EV available. The Mustang Mach-E which is a decent car but expensive. Other legacy companies are miles ahead. VW has a full range of ID vehicles, 3,4,5,7 and the ID Buzz. Before that they had early offerings with the E-up and e-Golf, all the manufacturers from the Stellantis group have loads of choice, BMW, Audi, Mercedes all have multiple models out, then there are the Korean cars which are mostly excellent. Ford have made a token effort at best, its a real shame as most of us have a soft spot for Ford having owned many in the past.
I roll my eyes when they say “no demand” and price their electrics $100,000 and more. The average buyer on the lower end wants A/C, music, basics for a price they can’t resist. They don’t need a car that goes from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds.
Compared to VW, Hyundai/Kia or even Stellantis - Ford have made next to no effort on EV's. TBH they aren't making much effort on ICE's either, discontinuing the Focus and Fiesta in Europe were terrible decisions.
Although better then other legacy auto, they didn't try hard enough...
Battery order cancelled. When Ford execs wake up and call the battery company, do ya think Ford is gonna get priority on production? Dips did the same at COVID start: "Cancel all chip orders! Oh shucks, we actually need chips to make cars. Call those guys back and tell them to get their asses in gear Right Frunkin' Now! 'Cause we're a really, really, really, old company..."
Not surprising. Was just waiting for them to go bankrupt
If I promise Farley NOT to order a lightning, will he give me $30,000?
After all that's half the money he'll lose if he does build one for me.
Ford needs to turn the Maverick into an all electric truck. It would become their best selling vehicle if they could keep the price under 35k.
Makes to much sense sadly SMH. They teased a maverick sized ev truck in late 2020¬hing about it since.
Imo they should've just used the mach e platform to build a mid size ev ranger(they built an ev ranger back in 1998 to btw.
@@4literv6 An EV Ranger or Maverick would be great! I am used to driving full size trucks but would buy a nice midsize EV truck.
They’re right. They need to reduce cost of their builds so they are going back to the drawing board
They are just too fricking dumb.
If they are able to upgrade their EV-production lines to make them profitable, to could do that also with their ice-lines, and make a bigger margin on those…
Kind of late, not?
@@hanswitvliet8188 Let's see what Ford's skunk works comes up with. EVs should be cheaper to build, and way cheaper to run than ICE.
Haha. True. Cars should not be the cost they are but same companies controlled it for so long and no one really wanted to rock the boat. Bring on the Chinese.
@@matthewStapleton while people are willing to pay for them, they get away with it.
But when parking lots are getting clogged with vehicles no-one is interested in, they have overplayed their hand.
Is the Geely Geometry any good? I'm thinking of getting one.
Meanwhile, down here in AUS, Camry sales are up 200%+ and M3 is down 22%. Just some perspective.
the math doesn't pencil out. At 72,000 EVs, that's about an 8 billion dollar loss per year, which is twice what their net income was for the year. I highly doubt that eliminating EVs would triple their profits.
Forcing consumers to buy something that they don’t want is not a good business plan!
I think what Ford means is that there is no demand for their EVs for what it costs to manufacture them. Once a legacy company is forced to reduce the price below what it costs them to make it, they will cancel making any more of them, no matter how many orders there are at that reduced price, and then rightly say there is a lack of demand. EVs are still way to expensive to make compared to ICE. The price the consumer sees might not make it appear so, but the slowdown of EV production does.
How is this loss being calculated exactly?
Ford is basically saying that they can't service their debt AND make EVs profitably without losing heaps of money on them as they ramp up. Ford is unwilling to lose that money....ERGO game over as to EVs for them.
The only way they will survive the decade is to partner somehow with Tesla to build something for them. Otherwise Ford is finished long term. Oh sure their numbers will look better for a couple of years if they drop EVs, but they will lose more and more ICE sales as people choose EVs because they soon will be cheaper up front.
Sam, $120k loss per car includes depreciation and one time expenses. As can be seen with Rivian and Lucid the capital requirements is astronomical. What’s key at this moment is Ford’s cash flow from EVs. Has Ford mentioned anything about cash flow?
We actually don't know if BYD is not losing money on pure EV. Their fiance is like GM. All core businesses lump together.
Sad, as every Lightning owner I've talked to loves their truck.
Electric Viking - FORD has ZERO expert in BEV, it only started selling MUCK-e in 2019 .
when TESLA was selling ROADSTER in 2009.
Yikes, I feel that each and every attempt of Ford failure at EV (in the headlines) makes me picture a fish out of water flapping once. Poor legacy.
I went with the Mach E early January because it was more cost effective. Love the way the car drives, software is no comparison to Tesla. I wished I had gone with Tesla, they have the vision. These cars are going to be remote power plans for micro grids. I have solar now as well and see a huge market and changes coming. I am excited for my grandkids. What a future in front of them. Tesla has the vision, companies like Ford and GM may not survive because they are still preoccupied with selling widgets and not the future. Let’s face it, the two car family in the future will be gone. Why buy a second car when a self driving car can pick you up and drive you to your destination. It’s going to be amazing
As much as many Americans “want” an EV, we do not get affordable Chinese EVs - there’s no budget EV that the middle class can afford to replace their $30K midsize SUV and even that price is a stretch for many. The Kona EV simply cannot replace its ICE equivalent in price/size segment
The biggest problem is no where to charge them outside, and at home if you have to part it in the street.
@@JimmyDoyel-by2cpdepends on where you live
Ford's plant in Turkey just starting delivery of e-transit custom in Europe! Still waiting for a Tesla van...🙏
I agree. I have been to two ford dealerships in ireland over past few months. They are not at the races. Bought a used 2022 Kia EV6 two months ago. A 2 year old car is still much better than their new explorer EV and 20k less.
It all comes down to taxation and prices. IF electricity costs you 0.20€ per kw/h and petrol 1.6€/l, then even if your petrol car uses way more kw/h's with lower efficiency to move itself 100km, you're still paying less for that travel. Couple that into the fact that same car costs 10-15k more if it's electric instead of petrol, it's not really rocket science why people would still buy petrol instead. With that at least 10k you can buy petrol for few years, so the point where electric would've been cheaper is only achievable with taxation and/or countries where electricity is dirt cheap, like Northern Norway.(Southern parts of the country export so much of their electricity abroad that it's 3-4x times the price of the same in North.
the answer is to make mostly ford plug ins. still get the 7500 credit.
5-8x fewer batteries.
Why? There's plenty of batteries and prices keep going down. Hybrids are the worst of both worlds.
@@jamesvandamme7786 Because Ford needs all the help it can get. a $7500 discount on a 14kwhr pack is cheaper for Ford than a 120kwhr pack.
10 times cheaper.
I agree a plug in hybrid isnt as good as an EV. I have both. i love my EV.. I tolerate my plug in.
If ford can hardly pay for batteries for EV, they can spread the batteries they can get by selling more Ford escapes etc. As an example, they can come out with a plug in hybrid Maverick. or Roll out a small electric maverick. Even if it can only go 200 miles, thats fine for most people in suburban areas or cities.
I owed a Ford f-15 eco boost suer fast car freeway mileage 23 miles per gallon-> was sad that it only once got to 26 mph driving at 50 mph going form SF to LA. A 8 hour drive
All of a sudden Chev have lots of SUV Blazers on sale $67,000 CAN.
This is an eye opener. I was very skeptical of Canada subsidizing new battery factory manufacturing here. What exactly is the technology they are planning to build? The technology is still being improved in China and they are breaking ground to build what here? I hope I am wrong, but I hope they can retool quickly as the technology evolves. Really don't want to see a new plant build inferior batteries in Canada no one wants or can afford.
The problem with battery manufacturing is what is hot today may be old tech tomorrow
Take a look at the Scotish experiment along these same lines - Disaster!
Hi Sam, great shame, I really like the new Ford Explorer EV - I know it’s based on the VW ID.3 platform, but I much prefer Fords take on it.
I am from the uk and work in car sales. The UK Ford is still pushing hard to sell them. They currently offer 7k off rrp. That means it starts at 43k which is still not cheap but if you get a top of the range Focus it will cost you roughly the same.
The government are pushing, but not giving enough reasons to buy electric even though they are pretty much forcing the manufacturer. Maybe I am wrong.
Ps great videos ✌️
I thought Ford had spun off a whole EV brand, Ford e, and the Mach e is a nice EV and so is their van. WTF is going on here?
I’m looking forward to a three row electric suv for 35k bucks. Make it happen
Like with many ford vehicles, fleet will be there sweet spot, especially municipal vehicles. There are billlllllions of $ that federal, state, local and military (around base use) vehicles that will go EV. Saves on maintenance, gas and can be used in emergencies as huge power banks.
I'm curious if they will ever have a plow on the F150 Lightning. My local DPW was interested as their gas budget is $$$$
I have owned Teslas and Tesla stock since 2017. We are still early adopters as not enough battery factories or charging stations, yet. EV’s are expensive BUT the wealthy make things available to the masses later. Yes, EV’s depreciate faster as a new tech BUT again allow second owners to purchase at reasonable discount. EV you can buy used with confidence.
used ev is schrott, buy a new one, you will be the early adopter, and one of the last...
Whats the best selling car in Australia, ... Ford Ranger ?
What about the USA ?
imagine how much tesla is loosing on each cybertruck
Does the battery last for +20 years then, because thats what the livete of a car should be (at least) if you want to make it enviromental sane….
The Ford F150 Hybrid gets 24 mpg combined. The Ford Lightning F150 BEV uses 0.490 kWh/mile.
In Oregon where I live, unleaded regular gasoline is averaging $4.42/gal. So the math is simple for the hybrid. It woukd cost $4.42 to drive 24 miles. The Ford Lightning would use 24 miles × 0.490 kWh/mile = 11.76 kWh of electricity to travel 24 miles. DCFAST charge rates at public chargers in Oregon are said to be about $0.43/kWh. That would 11.76 kWh × $0.43/kWh = $5.05.
A comparison of a Toyota Prius hybrid that gets 57 mpg combined and a Tesla Model 3SR thst uses ~0.280 kWh/mile would be $4.43 to drive 57 miles in the Prius vs 57 miles × 0.280 Wh/mile × $0.43/kwh = $6.86 in the Tesla Model 3SR
It all depends on gasoline prices and electric rates. I were to bet, electric rates are going to keep going up.
Electric rates are tightly regulated but gas prices are definitely not.
Plug in at home like normal people and your math will be totally wrong.
@@jamesvandamme7786 I live in a condo where I can't plug in as do millions of other drivers. If I owned an EV I would have to use public chargers. On my point about electric rates rising. From Oregon Live "If approved by the Oregon Public Utility Commission, it would add up to about a 40% increase in PGE's power rates since January 2022. Pacific Power customers are also feeling the pain. If the utility's latest rate proposal is approved, they're looking at a 50% increase since January 2023.Mar 10, 2024"
On-peak
As of now in Oregon
Time of Use price
27.693 ¢ per kWh
Basic Service price
16.34 ¢ per kWh
Time of Use period
Mid-peak
Time of Use price
21.031 ¢ per kWh
Basic Service price
16.34 ¢ per kWh
Time of Use period
Off-peak
Time of Use price
5.160 ¢ per kWh
Basic Service price
16.34 ¢ per kWh
Caytle, never heard of them.
Can't work out if you're being serious or sarcastic. CATL is the largest battery maker in the world by some margin and provide batteries for most EV brands.
To succeed you have to give customers the cars they want and afford to buy not the ones you want to make.
Just read a report on the next batteries for sale, @ the close to the bottom was Kodak Batterries ( I didn't even know there was still a Kodak),@ the top were Kirkland / Duracell batteries and very top was Energizer brand. Who knows maybe one day the Ford might be Chinese owned?🤔
This while Chinese are overproducing, dang the market
Ford's UK strategy is stupid,they have only had the MachE and now the Employer. For every 3 ice car's they sell this year they need to sell an EV or pay a £16k fine, surly developing the Ka/Fiesta/Focus replacements to market first would have been the sensible thing rather the the top end down
You are correct.In UK Ford are known as the basic family no frills car. Ford is, was your first car.. Ford should be selling cheapish smallish battery EVs. They would easily sell them as people trust the brand.
Legacy is still starting up, Tesla has a 10 year lead and Elon has made a few strong moves. However, when Tesla starts appealing to entry level cars they will end up with legacy at an ROI at 6-8%. I drove the new Silverado WT for 5 days in Nashville. It is a nice truck however, the cost to charge was about $30/150 miles at EVGO. $.99 connection charge and $.55 KWh. so about 4x as expensive as a hybrid.
People here are forgetting that Tesla didn't make a profit on EV's until it's 18 year of production, now if the legacy's don't do it in three they failed.
Only hope it doesn't take Ford 18 years of EV production to turn a profit like it did Tesla.
There is some mistery about this plant "Ford Motor Co.’s BlueOval City, soon to be home to its largest and most advanced production complex, is its first greenfield assembly plant in more than half a century." Is Ford reduction of ev manufacturing is because of cost of manufacturing in old ICE manufacturing plan, and they are waiting for the Blue Oval city to start and ramp up?
Ford is not building their "plan."
Ford needs to make Blue Oval a separate company and sell the cars through the internet with delivery centers until it’s dealerships get in line or go out of business.
It’ll be an easy step to nationalize the American auto industry…and give each of us our government issued Chinese made EV Roller-skate.
Sounds like Ford are going back to the drawing board.
they do a lot of stupid stuff. the hybrid maverick is not AWD for example.
Sammy can you let us know what's going on with the "parts" industry. Napa, O'Reilly, AutoZone, PepBoys and what not?
All the other BEV makers also had to buy their production lines as well.
There is a *possibility* that it is not always true in China. Xiaomi started out using contract manufacturing with BAIC. A government agency acquired the factory and now it belongs to Xiaomi. I said possibly because there is no transparency. Draw your own conclusions.
@@danharold3087 no transparency in America either
Look at the Hurdles that Tesla had to jump starting a whole new car manufacturing plant and all new architecture. It’s amazing they made any profit. Big 3 must continue or the Chinese will really jump ahead. EV’s will be cheaper and faster to manufacture in the future especially when USA builds battery factories vs buying from Korea and China. We bailed out Big 3 in 2008 when they were trying to go from fleet sales to global sales. We do not want to bail out Big 3 again trying to catch up to global EV tech. With inflation bailouts less likely. Past 3 years of high inflation compounded every year and high interest rates making for industries paying past debt with less money for future debt. This present economic environment of layoffs and tight money makes growth difficult. Tesla was lucky starting with cheap credit. Rivian, lucid and others started with higher inflation and interest which really hurts them
Even if they switch, who will build them? They done fired all their workers in Michigan.
How much?$120,000.00 per car?
There is no way Ford could possibly lose $120,000 on an EV. Think about it, a Ford F150 lightning is about the same as a F150. So if you add a 200kWh battery pack, at $200 a kWh, that would add $40,000 onto the cost, not $120,000.
Ford & GM must EVENTUALLY make profits.
Much like Rivian, this type of loss is unsustainable.
Paradoxically, they cannot ignore the EV technologies & future, because they’re already here.
Management is in the business of solving problems, and they can’t wait for battery prices to drop as a primary business model.
People are waiting for better, cheaper EVs that they've been promised (Osbourne Effect). Battery prices keep dropping and NACS plugs are coming. Lots to sort out before the common man is ready to buy. Meanwhile they can push hybrids at high profit because the dealers love to change oil, and the oil industry loves them because nobody ever charges them.
How is a $120,000 loss per vehicle possible. If you take out Tesla's profit margins it costs them around $30,000 per model 3 to manufacture including R&D and everything else. And only slightly more for the Y. Is Ford really that inefficient?
How could they be losing $120,000 per car, on a vehicle that they initially said they would be selling for $40,000? $120,000 is like Tesla's cost of building FOUR Model 3s. Can they possibly be that incompetent?
It’s media math, taking all the cost inputs and dividing by the number of units sold. It’s a dumb way of measuring profits/loss.
I'd like to see a better explanation of the production costs for EV vs gasoline vs diesel. Broken down into drive train, suspension, frame, chassis, computers, etc. Fixed vs incremental.
Stopping production won't give any real relief from development & initial retooling cost (maybe change accounting categories). If they're paying $100,000 for the battery and $20,000 for motors, perhaps changing suppliers would stop the losses.
That’s not going to happen because they can’t seem to understand the old way of making an ice vehicle does not translate into making pure EVs - in particular. Look at how vertically oriented Tesla and a few other Chinese automakers are; in other words they do Not use the traditional supplier chain. They have to make it all themselves and relentlessly cut costs. Ford and GM in particular do Not know how to do this.
It takes a complete change of mindset. I don’t think anyone is going to break all this down for you. Plus, I’m sure Tesla keeps its costs close to the vest as a trade secret. Remember, they started out in 2008 and really didn’t get going until 2019; possibly because the costs of battery production came down significantly at that time and is still decreasing - first mover advantage in this space is huge.
@@RandyP-jr1ek Sandy Munro breaks it down pretty well. He fainted when he opened the Mach e hood.... Autoline Daily After Hours also has a guy who tears down cars, very enlightening.
Farley has a skunk works separate from the clowns in Dearborn who are tasked with designing a $25K car. Let's see what they come up with before planning a funeral for Ford. Focus EV ain't gonna cut it.
I am still wondering how Ford is accounting this $120,000 loss per vehicle. For example, Tesla is making a tidy profit selling the Model Y for $50k or a little more. The Mach E is a very similar car at a very similar price point. Are they really saying that their cost on a Mach E is about $170,000? I don’t see it. If this is really the case, Ford is the worst car manufacturer in the world (and I don’t think they are). There’s something fishy about the accounting here.
Ford needs to change the way they build the new BEV technology, as old ways should be disgard to make cheaper vehicles to stay in business.
Now do Lucid
They are Kodak, Vhs and Nokia all together.
If we close our eyes, maybe EV’s will go away.
Kodak is a famous case study. They had a lot of interesting and innovative R&D programs but they made the mistake of listening to investors and pundits. Kodak abandoned the research and concentrated their resources on core film business to maximize profits. Which eventually ended the company. In comparison, Fujifilm now makes money in medical equipment, pharmaceutical, cosmetics, and industrial materials because they never cared what stock analysts think. Toyota was once ridiculed for hybrid research, and now they're being ridiculed for hydrogen research. Smart companies think in decades, not in quarters.
What killed Kodak was the digital camera. The irony is that Kodak INVENTED it but suppressed it - even sacking the development team - because it was a threat to their cash cow of film processing. As Bill Gates once said "if you don't cannibalise your own product line someone else will", which the more backward legacy makers (eg Toyota) are now going to learn.
Just goes to show you, legacy ICE automakers do not know how to make a profitable EV.
The U.S. AUTO COMPANIES WANT THEIR INVESTMENT BACK IN ONE WEEK ARE THEY THINK THEY ARE LOSING MONEY
Detroit and Rochester feels like two cities with same destiny
Rochester, NY, has a battery recycling plant now.
Love Ford but they are going in the wrong direction with this. They should re-badge a BYD Seagull.
That's probably what Tesla will end up doing.
USA don’t want to go EV
Yes, we do. But they refuse to build them or let them be imported.
You jus lost Kentucky truck plant!!!…… atleast they’re not Lucid losing 460,000 dollars every ev sold
There is a reason Taiwan is smart enough to avoid money losing electric vehicles. Taiwan produces EV components but they let the Mainline CPP take the EV losses. Taiwan is smart focusing on high value technology and avoid disposable electric cars
Commitment. If you won't commit to selling enough cars, you will never recoup your development costs. You can only sell enough if you LOWER THE PRICE. It is impossible for a company to be bad enough to lose even a dollar on an EV if they have people making the decisions properly to become a successful EV manufacturer. They will not commit like Tesla, so they will not be successful.
It is nearly impossible for a corporation to pivot. Ford could only have succeed if they copied what Tesla did ever step of the way. Even if they were delayed a few years, they could survive. But they refused to copy the moves.