Plus with the heads poking out on both sides makes maintenance SOOOO BLOODY EASY! You don't have to take off the tank, or the air box, or a bunch of body panels to adjust the valves, replace the spark plugs or change the oil. It's all right there so easy to get to and ready for maintenance.
@@ontwowheels6479 You do? Holy shit, I've only been removing a piece of plastic to get to the airbox and change the air filter! Please tell me, what is this mythical air filter that requires removing the subframe?!?!?!
@@LarryJ602 I didn’t say air filter. I said air box. Or we could say fuel pressure regulator too because that also requires rear subframe removal. I just put a gearbox in mine. Bmw can’t build a gearbox that lasts but whatever man. Be condescending. I don’t care bro.
There are two reasons why BMW flat engines are a great choice. 1- virtually unbreakable. 2- best balance. Also, yes, the design is antiquated, but like Porsche 911s, it just works. i have owned a BMW boxer for 22 years and would not trade my latest for anything else in the market. it is tough, comfortable, nothing breaks and delivers pure joy.
As you probably know, BMW has many other motor configurations,they constantly improve on their designs,boxer twins are conducive for shaft drives. I have over 100,000 miles on my 2008 GS that I bought new. so yeah, they suck
Good point about the shaft drive, but the thing is, more power and more speed IS NOT the end all and be all of a motorcycle. So, yeah, BMW’s 4-cylinder is cheaper and faster, but you probably wouldn’t take a trip on it and certainly not use it for the same purposes.
@@qdllc The boxers are more than capable of getting one arrested for excessive speed. The new 1250 makes over 100ft/lbs at the engine. For a 1250. That doesn't seem low tech or slow.
100,000 miles on it, nicely done If only BMW could manage to make their cars last like that BMW mechanics are the only ones who love a used BMW I've never heard of another brand that sells cars that'll shred parts over and over I mean in a limited numbers, hand made, Italian exotic type vehicle you kind of expect some problems But a BMW should at least be more reliable than that
I wish I had my camera on the other day when I was filling up this couple on a K 1600 GTL pulled up. I said to myself oh aren't we some fancy princess'. The girl hopped off the back and yelled to the guy "I need to shit" and then proceeded to run into the store. So it is true fancy pants BMW riders also poop.
Truth is simplicity of design, a balanced natural engine that is rugged and reliable with sufficient power to get the job done. Low centre of gravity, ease of maintenance make them a decent handling machine.
I ride another antique, a Guzzi V7, it’s like riding a tractor. Would I give it up for a 4 cylinder, hell no, I may as well go drive my wife Honda accord
Opposing twins make loads of torque at very low revs, unlike their 4-cylinder counterparts that need to be revved to the stratosphere to produce torque & power. And the Japanese do take their opposing cylinders seriously...ever heard of a Goldwing? Finally, in BMW's case, their pricier 2-cylinders opposed engines are mated to a shaft-drive, so no chain cleaning or lubing. Yes, you can add the heritage and all that, plus a boxer engine screams BMW from a mile away.
There were huge benefits to a flat twin when the engines were air-cooled. That why Harley designed a flat twin when their military bikes with the narrow v-twin couldn't handle the heat in north Africa. It's interesting that both BMW Motorrad and Porsche make some of the most highly regarded vehicles in their segments and they do it with the "wrong" engines.
@@LabiaLickerlet’s be honest, the Japanese ripped off Zee Germans for their best designs. I’ll grant that they refined them to insane reliability, but they didn’t exactly come up with any groundbreaking designs…just like they ripped off American truck and SUV designs to perfection. Love me some Japanese vehicles, but any credit to their vehicles boils down to Kaizen.
@@gmcg8775 Nah Jap stuff is way better. Now days when I think of German automobiles I think of Volkswaggen, Mercedes and BMW, none of which come to mind when I think "good engineering" (particularly VW). Also a lot of the famous Jap cars were designed by white guys, to say they ripped of American designs is erroneous. I would say a bigger case of design rip off is Ferrari ripping of Corvette. No when I think of innovation in cars and engines I think of companies like Yamaha making the Lexus LFA engine and Mazda making the first to market compression ignition petrol engine.
Just one note: In the UK at least BMWs were not cool sports bikes in the 80s, they were touring bikes for old farts with tobacco stained moustaches. All the cool kids were riding Japanese bikes with frames made from wet spaghetti. Into trees, mostly. Henry Hartley is right - BMW tried to move with the times and it was like launching new formula coke. There were grey beards protesting outside the German Embassy.
Some old dude pulled up next to me on his bmw yesterday and told me to tear my harley engine (with only 10k miles) apart and rebuild it, because it sounds broken. GFYS
Apperantly it's all in the ear of the beholder. Since the old 2 valve boxer can sound pretty "broken" too by the standards of a newbie. Until you run it for 200k kms and realise it still sounds that way😂
I loved the sound of my tiny Honda cb500. For the few days till I realized power was low. The exhaust got loose and it was partially breathing directly out of the engine. Sounded good though
They did try to kill off the boxer in the early eighties with the introduction of the triple and four cylinder flying brick engined bikes, but pressure from BMW owners kinda stopped it. Great video..
It’s a very nice engine to ride. Loads of torque, you select the gear for the speed limit, 3rd for 30mph, 4th for 40, etc, etc and the bike just settles nicely at those speeds. And like all twins you can make bends in a higher gear than on a multi.
Sounds like a mistake. BMW is actually one of the more forward-thinking companies I think, but if you want to stay alive long-term, you should unashamedly target new riders each and every year.
Same reasons Porsche stuck with boxer 6 and rear engine which makes the handling very “ interesting” for the uninitiated before all the driver aids were put on.
Great as always. As I got older I got the the appreciation of the history and the older stuff. I used to be about the latest and greatest tech specs now I see it like the old hometown bar compared to the new flashy brewery. The new brewery has many more choices, look all fancy, bright and clean, smell a whole lot better but.the old neighborhood bar has the people, personality, barely functioning Jukebox with the same dozen songs that's been played for the last 50 years, and comfort that you just can't replace. You have to think about going to the brewery, and think about what you want, the neighborhood bar - you just automatically go and you normal drink is ready by the time you get in the door at your spot at the bar. The younger me wouldn't understand, the older me gets it.
Your point is valid but the comparison is awful. Bars and breweries are simply not comparable to engines. There is nothing wrong with liking some engine characteristics over others. "Picking sides" is ignorant, be it towards older familiarity, etc or tech specs, bleeding edge performance. Grab a big v twin or boxer or 2 stroke, if you feel like it, also grab a screaming inline 4 if it suits what you want to do with it. People that scoff at anything that's not a sportbike are just as biased and narrow minded as the cruiser/boxer/whatever counterpart. The Boxer has a very good reason for being in an RS. It offers great low to mid range and great torque, is quite smooth, unlike an inline4 which on BMW specifically has some secondary vibration issues with their bikes. The engine is great for real world road riding, very easy to service, and is somewhat uniquely suited for comfy road touring and many more reasons it's still used today. I haven't owned a flying brick engine but have owned its next evolution. Comparing that to the line of boxers BMW had then, the boxer is still more comfy for long distance touring, easier to service, less issues being an older platform and most likely cheaper to develop too. Everything has its uses. Either younger or older me, I would still not want to tour for 10k miles on a Panigale, or get a Goldwing as a track only bike.
If you look at car technology compared to bike tech, bikes are actually more advanced. Bikes make a hell of a lot more power for their displacement because they rev much higher, they’re more fuel Efficient, they’re more compact. all achieved without any kind of forced induction or nitrous or any special additions.
Yes BMW is still using an “old design”, but it’s been updated significantly from the version in the 80’s. Please take a look at how far the Evo engine has been improved on the sportsters since the 80’s and compare that to the improvements to the boxer engine from the same era.
It'll be a sad day if the boxer ever leaves for practicality and design and such. I don't even really like the boxer buuuuut they're cool af. Great vid bud and that conclusion :D So true.
The other answer to "why ride this?!" might include swapping spark plugs and doing valve clearances, as it's nice to just have things sticking out if you need to work on them. But yes, nostalgia and iconoclastic inclinations are probably a more philosophic answer to the question.
Ahhh, coffee and Shadetree on a sunday. My brother was a BMW motorcycle Master tech for 10+ years he has since moved to ducati as a Master tech. He absolutely loved BMW but he also said if you own one you have to do all of the scheduled service intervals or you will have problems.
I use to work in a workshop that only worked on older bikes. One day a mint R80/5 came in. I got to service it. I was amazed it only had 28k on the odometer. When the owner came to pick it up, I asked him about it, and he laughed. He told me that it had been around the clock three times.
I laugh when I hear these types of comments. Any bike/vehicle will give "problems" if not properly maintained. I personally own 5 BMW vehicles, and a '09 R1200RT, I absolutely love and I maintain each of them myself. BMWs aren't difficult or expensive to maintain...BMW shops simply charge a premium for maintenance, and branded parts. My cars? '04, '06, '08, '11, & '13 all with 116-160k on the odometer.
The difference between BMW/ducati vs harley is that both Euro bike companies have both ! Heritage and the latest!!! Ducati still makes their V (L) engine and puts it on bikes like the Monster that has been around for 25 years and at the same time have the v4 penagali with over 200hp ... same as bmw! What does harley have...? V twins... with minute tweaks! And thats it... ohh an electric 30k bike that nobody wants....
My Monster 1200R engine imploded after just a few thousand miles on the clocks. Nine BMW's and zero problems. Yes, BMW's suck... bang, and blow... for many miles to come!
I have had dozens of bikes come and go of the years. All different types from harley to hodaka hard tail to sport. The 1972 R/5 I purchased in 1986 is still in the garage.It's almost joy to level of sensory overload still when I start her up.. My son just turned 18 and going to look for his first bike Monday. Proud dad moment.
Seventeen minutes into an eighteen minute video, I finally get the reason you think BMW motorcycles suck. Well, that was eighteen minutes of my life wasted. I don't want to be impolite, but this bait and switch was deeply disappointing.
BMW Harley Motoguzzi and probably others stick with configurations that work. There are many advantages for twins. When BMW tried to drop the twins for the flat 4 K100 back in the 80s there was a lot of push back from enthusiasts. So they are "stuck" with that design same with HD and MG.
What is he talking all the time? He has not a clue. Also the wheels have not changed - they are still circular! ;-) And the GS with a BOXER is a absolute Bestseller. So you think they should kill it?
So title of video was reason and excuse for him to borrow these bikes from his buddy and just yapppp and spill out bs for whole duration of this video!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1923 the r32 was the first "motorcycle" looking motorcycle. HD was still building bicycles with motors. 1927 BMW hits 125 mph on the track. HD didnt' do it until 1946 on the knucklehead, and speaking of the knuckle, looks suspiciously like the r32. yea, after the war we plundered bmw's factories. so bmw's greatest heritage is that HD wants to be one
Love the video. It is crazy how Harley and BMW use inferior technology but still somehow manage to have the most loyal customer base. I'm guilty of it. I could have easily found a faster more reliable bike for half the money but then I wouldn't have that v-twin making my heart pound every time I twist the throttle. PS: the voice over was awesome👍
I know right! I cast sooo much shade on "Hardley Ableson". BUT.... yesterday I saw a 2010 Crossbones for sale. I INSTANTLY fell in love... Not only the old school Vtwin, but a Springer front end? There is just something about that bike that tugs on my heart strings!
The one thing you forgotten mention.... even the worse and/or poorly designed motorcycles, are still motorcycles... which are better than everything. Ever.
Great video! I love my 2017 R1200GS and it's all about character because it's definitely not a power monster. Specifically, I like the mellow yet torquey engine. Smooth engine braking and nice little rumble when getting on the throttle at low RPM. I also like the shaft drive as it's low maintenance and makes you feel like you're on a tank. Handling is very light due to low center of gravity, Telelever suspension and narrow tires. And I also like the farty sound from the exhaust, especially with a good can. I have Remus 8. Kinda sounds like a WW2 era airplane (true to their heritage). Ride by wire throttle is very dialed in and smooth. I could go on and on about what I like but I will mention that the telelever suspension is not for everyone. I can see why some people don't like it; it's weird and very different than traditional forks. It took me a while to get used to. Also, the boxer bikes are made with certain offsets in the design which, along with the torque reaction from the crankshaft, create a different feel when turning left vs right. I guess you could say that the bike has asymmetrical handling. That also took a while to get used to. Thanks for the cool insights and for the history lesson.
I do think that BMW boxer motor holds the lap record at Isle of Man, if its not current it was the record 2018ish. If that is not a reason to argue the reason to keep making one than there is no reason to argue.
I liked the video but I think the reasons are actually simpler. For a motorbike, torque, stability and handling (which that lower center of gravity improves) are a better choice over raw power and speed.
I enjoyed this one quite a bit. I have owned both Harleys and, currently, BMWs as well as each of the 4 major Japanese brands. I never had any issues with Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha but I didn't love them like my Harleys and BMWs. I could care less about any specs on paper, or maintenance issues or any other reason "they" say not to ride this or that bike. There is nothing that sounds like the thunderous Harley or looks as awesome as the boxer. I love the way the torque of the engine makes a R NineT twist to the side when you twist the throttle! So yeah, "Fuck you, that's why!"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an opposed twin tho. It’s not less technically “advanced” than anything else. That’s a ridiculous statement shadetree. Completely ridiculous. The model T had an I4 so yeah. It’s totally a newer design. Ok dude. Cool.
The answer to "why stick with opposed twins" is simple. What interesting would it be if all bikes had the supposedly ideal engine config? Variety is everything. And there are actual advantages with the flat twin too. Just compare the time it takes to change spark plugs or check valve clearances on a flat twin vs a i4. There aren't many people questioning Porsches decision to stick with the flat six either. Its quintessentialy Porsche and very much the ideal engine config for rear engine sports cars. And I think the same applies for BMW´s flat twin. It for example makes the GS significantly more manageable with its huge weight. Cheers.
Well yes; but, you overlooked the BMW K1600GT/GTL with their state of the art inline sixes - superior technology to those outdated four cylinder Japanese motorbike engines. Having said that, buzzy fours, with their power band and torque curves all up at the top of the rev band do little for me in terms of enjoyment; the six is absolutely sublime with the perfect primary and secondary balance inherent in the inline six layout, and tuned to have a lovely fat and near flat torque curve. As to twins? Why not? Sometimes less is more, and the BMW boxer twins have a great sound and feel. So to do the latest generation of 90º degree offset crank, 270º/450º firing order parallel twins - Triumph and the BMW offerings for example. I don't think it's the number of cylinders or the layout that counts if we're talking technology; the variable valve timing and lift on the BMW1250 boxer is state of the art regardless of the number of cylinders. Personally, I just love the look and sound, along with the low centre of gravity, and low rev torque, giving an effortless and supremely enjoyable riding experience. But hey, that's just me... :-)
Love your videos shadetree. Tho you never mentioned the BMW K bikes. the K65 and K100 the flying bricks. They never took off like the flat twin. So I'm guessing that's why BMW still makes the boxer. It's damn near bullet proof And as the old saying goes. "If it's not broke don't fix it."
K75, not 65, for the record. The K bikes were intended to supplant the airhead boxer in the mid 80s. 1984 saw the "final edition" R100RT produced. Despite all the virtues (yes, really, VIRTUES LOL) of the K brick engine, the BMW crowd were up in arms over the decision to nix the boxer. BMW responded and produced the airhead through the 1995 model year. Meanwhile the K bikes flourished through the 1997 model year before undergoing a redesign for 1998 with a tweaked brick engine. The 2nd gen K bikes lasted through the 2004 model year. Squeezed in between all of that, BMW introduced the modern new and improved boxer engine (EFI, oil/air cooled) for the 1994 model year. It ran concurrent to the original airhead until the airhead was put to rest after the 1995 model year.
a BMW rider stole my coffee that had just finished brewing at my local motorcycle shop while I had my back turned picking up parts. they stole free coffee...
You rock Josh - you should get into politics Lol Your healthy attitude of a bit of respect and a dose of middle finger is exactly what we all need! Be safe bud, hope you get to sling beers soon, I’ll even try n make it down there once the Stormtroopers stop guarding the Canadian Boarder!
Really enjoyed your BMW piece. I thought you might like to turn your talents to doing a similar piece on Triumph, and how it's roots are actually German, and was originally also a German company.
I don't have any experience with BMW's myself other than during the mid-70's when I was in middle school, I had a teacher with one that had a sidecar attached and it was his pride and joy, I've yet to hear anything negative about them personally, the only thing that could be construed as a negative would be the inability to use highway pegs due to the boxer engine but that's personal preference.
When you're road riding in the middle of nowhere and haven't seen another vehicle for 45 minutes and a motorbike headlight appears in the closing distance my experience is that you're about to pass another BMW R1200 RT rider. It isn't quick or fast but it is perfect for crushing big mile days and it can handle fun roads just fine.
Chris Fournier the S1000RR is super quick and that’s what it was designed to do the R1200RT is deigned you be a tourer and it does so very well while also being fairly quick when compared to other retro engineered tourers.
THE old BMW will far outlive the new BMW. couldn't pay me to own a new BMW or a Ducati there plagued with abs issues, suspension issues, spline drive issues. the list goes on and on. worked on many, owned bot a R model and a K model. The k model had constant bull crap BMW issues and will never live up to the old R. ID take the BIng any day over BMW fuel injection.
I'd totally pick a BMW over say a Harley or Indian. I'm not a fan of that really old 80's square style fairing but if I had it, I'd drive it. Opposed boxer cyldinders shake side to side, I'd rather have 3 cyldiners all exiting on the right side for setting your points and valve jobs. The best bike is the one you own and have right there.
BMW is in tune to it's heritage. It's important to both remain faithful to your heritage when it makes sense while also pushing innovation in other areas. I would also argue that the flat twin DOES have some engineering pluses over a traditional inline 4. It carries a lower center of gravity and has a wider spread of torque across it's rev range, making it less taxing to use it's power more effectively. Great for urban environments, light off roading, etc. (which is why the GS has a fan base)
BMW meeting "so uk the flag, logo rip off, "germans is suits- Yeah" SO we are gonna say its something to do with a propeller now" "germans in suits- Yeah but why" Lone german in suit " MONEY THATS WHY". "cheering in 8am hangover".
So many things are the same? That’s because it WORKS. Why fix something that’s not broken. There is a market for this type of bike. Reliable comfortable and refined. They’re designed for people who ride. Not for the posers who jump on for ½ an hour to film cop chasing videos.
Ahah I totally get it. I have a Buell Lightning! Is there faster bikes? Yeah, cheaper bikes yeah... but! I love the weirdness of the Buell. The hopped up aircooled sporty motor, the hollow frame, the giant brake rotor... all of that makes the bike much more interesting to me. And let’s be real. It’s plenty fast!
Letting someone else ride your bike mean more than "I love you"
Especially when it's classic BMW in perfect shape.
"Let me go to the trouble to get TWO bikes out for you, not me, to ride" means even more.
Some folks get weird if you even *look* at their bike too hard
Some folks would rather let you bang their girl, rather than touch their bike
@@bitingdogg3236
😂
Happy Sunday everyone, I hope it’s going good for ya
I ride a 2016 BMW R1200RT/LC, why cause I can! We ride two wheels, that’s the connection that’s the spirit of it all. The Shade was enjoyable today.
Done 300,000 miles on my air head, no bike is perfect,but they are brilliant all year round
Bikes, for touring and commuting, love mine to bits
Same bike? 300,000?
Wow, I actually feel smarter (learning new stuff is cool). To watch a ShadeTree Surgeon video and come away more informed, is a rarity indeed. 👍🏼 😎 🍺
I’d say so, usually you come away missing brain cells 😂
Ever seen a guy riding a Harley around the world. Neither have I.........
Nothing starts a Sunday like coffee a cigarette and shadetree surgeon keep up the great content man love the videos and keep it weird
Exactly. Totally with ya.
100 percent agree!
Substitute the cigarette with a chorizo burrito and lava diarrhea.
Hmm not sure about that ciggie..
The idea of a 100k mile engine, with huge amounts of torque, yet refined in all other aspects, will never go out of style.
Plus with the heads poking out on both sides makes maintenance SOOOO BLOODY EASY! You don't have to take off the tank, or the air box, or a bunch of body panels to adjust the valves, replace the spark plugs or change the oil. It's all right there so easy to get to and ready for maintenance.
@@lauracjlaw thank god. Since you have to remove the entire rear subframe to get the air box out.
@@ontwowheels6479 You do?
Holy shit, I've only been removing a piece of plastic to get to the airbox and change the air filter!
Please tell me, what is this mythical air filter that requires removing the subframe?!?!?!
@@LarryJ602 I didn’t say air filter. I said air box. Or we could say fuel pressure regulator too because that also requires rear subframe removal. I just put a gearbox in mine. Bmw can’t build a gearbox that lasts but whatever man. Be condescending. I don’t care bro.
@@lauracjlaw yet that maintenance is still bloody expensive 'cause it's bmw :))))
Really enjoyed that one! (said the reluctant boxer pilot - both in my bike and aircraft!)
TMF in the house!
There are two reasons why BMW flat engines are a great choice. 1- virtually unbreakable. 2- best balance. Also, yes, the design is antiquated, but like Porsche 911s, it just works. i have owned a BMW boxer for 22 years and would not trade my latest for anything else in the market. it is tough, comfortable, nothing breaks and delivers pure joy.
As you probably know, BMW has many other motor configurations,they constantly improve on their designs,boxer twins are conducive for shaft drives. I have over 100,000 miles on my 2008 GS that I bought new. so yeah, they suck
Good point about the shaft drive, but the thing is, more power and more speed IS NOT the end all and be all of a motorcycle. So, yeah, BMW’s 4-cylinder is cheaper and faster, but you probably wouldn’t take a trip on it and certainly not use it for the same purposes.
@@qdllc The boxers are more than capable of getting one arrested for excessive speed. The new 1250 makes over 100ft/lbs at the engine. For a 1250. That doesn't seem low tech or slow.
100,000 miles on it, nicely done
If only BMW could manage to make their cars last like that
BMW mechanics are the only ones who love a used BMW
I've never heard of another brand that sells cars that'll shred parts over and over
I mean in a limited numbers, hand made, Italian exotic type vehicle you kind of expect some problems
But a BMW should at least be more reliable than that
@@daviejay5326 "German Engineering"
@@loooopeytunes mercedes is German and those last forever
The copper accents on the 83 are freaking sweet.
That’s another Moe Colors paint job :)
I agree John.
That's how it should have came from the factory. I love it
I wish I had my camera on the other day when I was filling up this couple on a K 1600 GTL pulled up. I said to myself oh aren't we some fancy princess'. The girl hopped off the back and yelled to the guy "I need to shit" and then proceeded to run into the store. So it is true fancy pants BMW riders also poop.
😂😂😂
My brother blood rides a k1600 blue collar to the bone F.U.
I ride a 2000 BMW RT... I can drop heat with the best of them!! 😂
Lmfao
Yeah, but it doesn't smell...
Don't ask...
You buy a car with your brain. You buy a bike with your heart.
Truth is simplicity of design, a balanced natural engine that is rugged and reliable with sufficient power to get the job done. Low centre of gravity, ease of maintenance make them a decent handling machine.
I ride another antique, a Guzzi V7, it’s like riding a tractor. Would I give it up for a 4 cylinder, hell no, I may as well go drive my wife Honda accord
I understand that response. On the other hand hand I'm done with anything older than about 2000 at this point. You can't live in the past.
CRP i hear you, if I never own another carb bike I’ll die happy.
I have a 2020 Moto Guzzi v7 and have more fun on that then my BMW R18 or my Harley Heritage.
Opposing twins make loads of torque at very low revs, unlike their 4-cylinder counterparts that need to be revved to the stratosphere to produce torque & power. And the Japanese do take their opposing cylinders seriously...ever heard of a Goldwing? Finally, in BMW's case, their pricier 2-cylinders opposed engines are mated to a shaft-drive, so no chain cleaning or lubing. Yes, you can add the heritage and all that, plus a boxer engine screams BMW from a mile away.
Great show . I had a R75 1972 , That was the most reliable bike I ever owned . That’s coming from a long time Harley rider .
Long time Harley rider/wrench w/1971 "Toaster tank airhead" in stable...easy to work on & maintain.
My 71 R60/5 is still a one kick to start machine.
DirtyOldBeemer _ they are amazing machines
I've seen several BMW's with over 200k miles including one with 350K.
Raccoon man 60 Torque steer?
There were huge benefits to a flat twin when the engines were air-cooled. That why Harley designed a flat twin when their military bikes with the narrow v-twin couldn't handle the heat in north Africa. It's interesting that both BMW Motorrad and Porsche make some of the most highly regarded vehicles in their segments and they do it with the "wrong" engines.
Hey lets not forget about Subaru. And the WRX
@@LabiaLickerlet’s be honest, the Japanese ripped off Zee Germans for their best designs. I’ll grant that they refined them to insane reliability, but they didn’t exactly come up with any groundbreaking designs…just like they ripped off American truck and SUV designs to perfection. Love me some Japanese vehicles, but any credit to their vehicles boils down to Kaizen.
@@gmcg8775 Nah Jap stuff is way better. Now days when I think of German automobiles I think of Volkswaggen, Mercedes and BMW, none of which come to mind when I think "good engineering" (particularly VW).
Also a lot of the famous Jap cars were designed by white guys, to say they ripped of American designs is erroneous. I would say a bigger case of design rip off is Ferrari ripping of Corvette.
No when I think of innovation in cars and engines I think of companies like Yamaha making the Lexus LFA engine and Mazda making the first to market compression ignition petrol engine.
10:03 .... blows right through “Do Not Enter” signs. Love it my friend.
What can I say 😂
hahaha I caught that too lol
I noticed that also. LOL
If they had a traffic camera, he won't get the ticket heh,heh,heh...
"That's Why!" Sounds right.
I love my antiquated v-motors hell that's all I have 2 Harley's, Aprilia, Honda vfr is a V4, Ducati that's a L but similar idea.
My 35 year old V65 still amazes me.
All about the twins 👍🏻 Guzzi and aprilia here and I want more 😂
Yeah I loved my Harley big v twins are where it’s at
Just one note: In the UK at least BMWs were not cool sports bikes in the 80s, they were touring bikes for old farts with tobacco stained moustaches. All the cool kids were riding Japanese bikes with frames made from wet spaghetti. Into trees, mostly. Henry Hartley is right - BMW tried to move with the times and it was like launching new formula coke. There were grey beards protesting outside the German Embassy.
Some old dude pulled up next to me on his bmw yesterday and told me to tear my harley engine (with only 10k miles) apart and rebuild it, because it sounds broken. GFYS
It’s a Harley he could be right :p
The truth hurts
Apperantly it's all in the ear of the beholder. Since the old 2 valve boxer can sound pretty "broken" too by the standards of a newbie. Until you run it for 200k kms and realise it still sounds that way😂
I loved the sound of my tiny Honda cb500. For the few days till I realized power was low. The exhaust got loose and it was partially breathing directly out of the engine. Sounded good though
Should have replied "Those BMW's are tough I hear you can ride them right through a holocaust."
They did try to kill off the boxer in the early eighties with the introduction of the triple and four cylinder flying brick engined bikes, but pressure from BMW owners kinda stopped it. Great video..
It’s a very nice engine to ride. Loads of torque, you select the gear for the speed limit, 3rd for 30mph, 4th for 40, etc, etc and the bike just settles nicely at those speeds. And like all twins you can make bends in a higher gear than on a multi.
Like Porsche and with the 911.
@@moddude101 That's doomed to be the same car forever.
Sounds like a mistake. BMW is actually one of the more forward-thinking companies I think, but if you want to stay alive long-term, you should unashamedly target new riders each and every year.
CRP if it ain’t broke? Don’t fix it
Same reasons Porsche stuck with boxer 6 and rear engine which makes the handling very “ interesting” for the uninitiated before all the driver aids were put on.
Great as always. As I got older I got the the appreciation of the history and the older stuff. I used to be about the latest and greatest tech specs now I see it like the old hometown bar compared to the new flashy brewery. The new brewery has many more choices, look all fancy, bright and clean, smell a whole lot better but.the old neighborhood bar has the people, personality, barely functioning Jukebox with the same dozen songs that's been played for the last 50 years, and comfort that you just can't replace. You have to think about going to the brewery, and think about what you want, the neighborhood bar - you just automatically go and you normal drink is ready by the time you get in the door at your spot at the bar. The younger me wouldn't understand, the older me gets it.
Wonderful analogy.
Your point is valid but the comparison is awful. Bars and breweries are simply not comparable to engines.
There is nothing wrong with liking some engine characteristics over others. "Picking sides" is ignorant, be it towards older familiarity, etc or tech specs, bleeding edge performance.
Grab a big v twin or boxer or 2 stroke, if you feel like it, also grab a screaming inline 4 if it suits what you want to do with it.
People that scoff at anything that's not a sportbike are just as biased and narrow minded as the cruiser/boxer/whatever counterpart.
The Boxer has a very good reason for being in an RS. It offers great low to mid range and great torque, is quite smooth, unlike an inline4 which on BMW specifically has some secondary vibration issues with their bikes.
The engine is great for real world road riding, very easy to service, and is somewhat uniquely suited for comfy road touring and many more reasons it's still used today.
I haven't owned a flying brick engine but have owned its next evolution. Comparing that to the line of boxers BMW had then, the boxer is still more comfy for long distance touring, easier to service, less issues being an older platform and most likely cheaper to develop too.
Everything has its uses. Either younger or older me, I would still not want to tour for 10k miles on a Panigale, or get a Goldwing as a track only bike.
bingo but now i am old
If you look at car technology compared to bike tech, bikes are actually more advanced.
Bikes make a hell of a lot more power for their displacement because they rev much higher, they’re more fuel Efficient, they’re more compact.
all achieved without any kind of forced induction or nitrous or any special additions.
Love the old bat girl fairing. Lol
Yes BMW is still using an “old design”, but it’s been updated significantly from the version in the 80’s. Please take a look at how far the Evo engine has been improved on the sportsters since the 80’s and compare that to the improvements to the boxer engine from the same era.
I'd watch that video
It'll be a sad day if the boxer ever leaves for practicality and design and such. I don't even really like the boxer buuuuut they're cool af.
Great vid bud and that conclusion :D So true.
The other answer to "why ride this?!" might include swapping spark plugs and doing valve clearances, as it's nice to just have things sticking out if you need to work on them. But yes, nostalgia and iconoclastic inclinations are probably a more philosophic answer to the question.
The BOXER is invincible in the alps! That´s why everybody in europe bye that bikes.
Ahhh, coffee and Shadetree on a sunday. My brother was a BMW motorcycle Master tech for 10+ years he has since moved to ducati as a Master tech. He absolutely loved BMW but he also said if you own one you have to do all of the scheduled service intervals or you will have problems.
@deplorably yours they are, wich is why my brother has always had Honda's ironically the GS1200 and Ss1000Rr are the worst bmw for maintenance
@deplorably yours there is nothing more expensive than a cheap bmw
I use to work in a workshop that only worked on older bikes. One day a mint R80/5 came in. I got to service it. I was amazed it only had 28k on the odometer. When the owner came to pick it up, I asked him about it, and he laughed. He told me that it had been around the clock three times.
I laugh when I hear these types of comments. Any bike/vehicle will give "problems" if not properly maintained. I personally own 5 BMW vehicles, and a '09 R1200RT, I absolutely love and I maintain each of them myself. BMWs aren't difficult or expensive to maintain...BMW shops simply charge a premium for maintenance, and branded parts. My cars? '04, '06, '08, '11, & '13 all with 116-160k on the odometer.
@@zo4712 yes
10:00 "i still got two big ole jugs hanging out in front of my feet"
That's something we can all aspire to...
The difference between BMW/ducati vs harley is that both Euro bike companies have both ! Heritage and the latest!!!
Ducati still makes their V (L) engine and puts it on bikes like the Monster that has been around for 25 years and at the same time have the v4 penagali with over 200hp ... same as bmw! What does harley have...? V twins... with minute tweaks! And thats it... ohh an electric 30k bike that nobody wants....
I had to put my Granddad jeans on there for a moment as I sit in lockdown with the laptop tied to the handlebars of my BMW1150R
My man 😂
My Monster 1200R engine imploded after just a few thousand miles on the clocks. Nine BMW's and zero problems. Yes, BMW's suck... bang, and blow... for many miles to come!
Yeah man I dig this style of video. Not to say I dont enjoy your typical talking head style.
I had fun with it :)
Only downfall is now my sunday shadetree routine is all messed up..
Sorry my best is the BMW K1600 GT it is nimble and very very quick smooth, and it is the pinnacle of incredible design .. I LOVE MiNE.
Richard’s a good friend. “Hey! Can I borrow your bikes for the afternoon to shit all over them for a video?”
I think you missed Shadetree's point......
I have had dozens of bikes come and go of the years. All different types from harley to hodaka hard tail to sport. The 1972 R/5 I purchased in 1986 is still in the garage.It's almost joy to level of sensory overload still when I start her up.. My son just turned 18 and going to look for his first bike Monday. Proud dad moment.
Seventeen minutes into an eighteen minute video, I finally get the reason you think BMW motorcycles suck. Well, that was eighteen minutes of my life wasted. I don't want to be impolite, but this bait and switch was deeply disappointing.
BMW Harley Motoguzzi and probably others stick with configurations that work. There are many advantages for twins. When BMW tried to drop the twins for the flat 4 K100 back in the 80s there was a lot of push back from enthusiasts. So they are "stuck" with that design same with HD and MG.
What is he talking all the time? He has not a clue. Also the wheels have not changed - they are still circular! ;-) And the GS with a BOXER is a absolute Bestseller. So you think they should kill it?
I like the BMW flat twin and the Moto Guzzi 90 degree V twin because they're NOT a freaking inline four that sounds like a swarm of angry hornets.
Triumph chopper time?
Soon!!
shadetree surgeon I can’t wait for that 😄
So title of video was reason and excuse for him to borrow these bikes from his buddy and just yapppp and spill out bs for whole duration of this video!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's why I ride a 28bhp Enfield Bullet :)
I love my Harley, but I love my Enfield more. I completely understand where you’re coming from.
1923 the r32 was the first "motorcycle" looking motorcycle. HD was still building bicycles with motors. 1927 BMW hits 125 mph on the track. HD didnt' do it until 1946 on the knucklehead, and speaking of the knuckle, looks suspiciously like the r32. yea, after the war we plundered bmw's factories. so bmw's greatest heritage is that HD wants to be one
Love the video. It is crazy how Harley and BMW use inferior technology but still somehow manage to have the most loyal customer base. I'm guilty of it. I could have easily found a faster more reliable bike for half the money but then I wouldn't have that v-twin making my heart pound every time I twist the throttle.
PS: the voice over was awesome👍
I know exactly how you feel haha
BMW and Harley. Love them both.
I know right! I cast sooo much shade on "Hardley Ableson". BUT.... yesterday I saw a 2010 Crossbones for sale. I INSTANTLY fell in love... Not only the old school Vtwin, but a Springer front end? There is just something about that bike that tugs on my heart strings!
I’ve had Japanese bikes my whole life and bought a 2019 Harley. It has more tech than any of the others ever came close to having.
Travis Nissen there is a bit of a difference between Harley’s current “modern” v-twins and BMW’s modern boxer engines.
The one thing you forgotten mention.... even the worse and/or poorly designed motorcycles, are still motorcycles... which are better than everything. Ever.
Flat twin bmw; the sound, the feel. It's all part of the trip. Same as the other bikes of this ilk: Guzzi, Ducati, The Motor Co, etc
BMW bikes don't suck they rock they are fast and reliable and have great handling so whoever tells you that anything BMW sucks never listen to them
Great video! I love my 2017 R1200GS and it's all about character because it's definitely not a power monster. Specifically, I like the mellow yet torquey engine. Smooth engine braking and nice little rumble when getting on the throttle at low RPM. I also like the shaft drive as it's low maintenance and makes you feel like you're on a tank. Handling is very light due to low center of gravity, Telelever suspension and narrow tires. And I also like the farty sound from the exhaust, especially with a good can. I have Remus 8. Kinda sounds like a WW2 era airplane (true to their heritage). Ride by wire throttle is very dialed in and smooth. I could go on and on about what I like but I will mention that the telelever suspension is not for everyone. I can see why some people don't like it; it's weird and very different than traditional forks. It took me a while to get used to. Also, the boxer bikes are made with certain offsets in the design which, along with the torque reaction from the crankshaft, create a different feel when turning left vs right. I guess you could say that the bike has asymmetrical handling. That also took a while to get used to. Thanks for the cool insights and for the history lesson.
it is the smile on your face after the ride wich counts! nothing more nothing less. And why ever, 2 cylinders give most people the bigger smile...
Big difference though BWM is thriving, Harley Davidson is dying 😂😂😂🥳🥳
I do think that BMW boxer motor holds the lap record at Isle of Man, if its not current it was the record 2018ish. If that is not a reason to argue the reason to keep making one than there is no reason to argue.
I liked the video but I think the reasons are actually simpler. For a motorbike, torque, stability and handling (which that lower center of gravity improves) are a better choice over raw power and speed.
Yep. There’s 1000 different metrics to consider. Yet here on the internet number of cylinders trumps all else. Apparently.
I enjoyed this one quite a bit. I have owned both Harleys and, currently, BMWs as well as each of the 4 major Japanese brands. I never had any issues with Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha but I didn't love them like my Harleys and BMWs. I could care less about any specs on paper, or maintenance issues or any other reason "they" say not to ride this or that bike. There is nothing that sounds like the thunderous Harley or looks as awesome as the boxer. I love the way the torque of the engine makes a R NineT twist to the side when you twist the throttle! So yeah, "Fuck you, that's why!"
I'm relatively new to the motorcycle world and I appreciate the history lessons you offer here on your channel.
Thanks man!
There is absolutely nothing wrong with an opposed twin tho. It’s not less technically “advanced” than anything else. That’s a ridiculous statement shadetree. Completely ridiculous. The model T had an I4 so yeah. It’s totally a newer design. Ok dude. Cool.
The answer to "why stick with opposed twins" is simple. What interesting would it be if all bikes had the supposedly ideal engine config? Variety is everything. And there are actual advantages with the flat twin too. Just compare the time it takes to change spark plugs or check valve clearances on a flat twin vs a i4.
There aren't many people questioning Porsches decision to stick with the flat six either. Its quintessentialy Porsche and very much the ideal engine config for rear engine sports cars.
And I think the same applies for BMW´s flat twin. It for example makes the GS significantly more manageable with its huge weight.
Cheers.
Or something like my Honda Valkyrie with a flat six
@@neilbrown82 True. It's just so much more interesting if there are engines other than I4.
They’re actually awesome
If you want to pack a lunch and repair one you can find ones that need a clutch for a grand but it’s quite the task to repair
Great idea for a video, I hope you do this with more bikes.
Thanks man!
Would like to see shadetree on a Guzzi
Faster isn’t always better. Comparing a boxer to a 4 is like comparing a diesel truck to a weed eater ;-)
Well at least you’re giving Harley a break 😂😂
For once 😂
I would ride the R nine T Race in white all day every day!!!!
Well yes; but, you overlooked the BMW K1600GT/GTL with their state of the art inline sixes - superior technology to those outdated four cylinder Japanese motorbike engines.
Having said that, buzzy fours, with their power band and torque curves all up at the top of the rev band do little for me in terms of enjoyment; the six is absolutely sublime with the perfect primary and secondary balance inherent in the inline six layout, and tuned to have a lovely fat and near flat torque curve.
As to twins? Why not? Sometimes less is more, and the BMW boxer twins have a great sound and feel. So to do the latest generation of 90º degree offset crank, 270º/450º firing order parallel twins - Triumph and the BMW offerings for example.
I don't think it's the number of cylinders or the layout that counts if we're talking technology; the variable valve timing and lift on the BMW1250 boxer is state of the art regardless of the number of cylinders.
Personally, I just love the look and sound, along with the low centre of gravity, and low rev torque, giving an effortless and supremely enjoyable riding experience. But hey, that's just me... :-)
The bmw GS in my garage right now taught me how to hate. I really mean that. Bmw engineering dept rides the short bus.
Love your videos shadetree. Tho you never mentioned the BMW K bikes. the K65 and K100 the flying bricks. They never took off like the flat twin. So I'm guessing that's why BMW still makes the boxer. It's damn near bullet proof And as the old saying goes. "If it's not broke don't fix it."
K75, not 65, for the record. The K bikes were intended to supplant the airhead boxer in the mid 80s. 1984 saw the "final edition" R100RT produced. Despite all the virtues (yes, really, VIRTUES LOL) of the K brick engine, the BMW crowd were up in arms over the decision to nix the boxer. BMW responded and produced the airhead through the 1995 model year. Meanwhile the K bikes flourished through the 1997 model year before undergoing a redesign for 1998 with a tweaked brick engine. The 2nd gen K bikes lasted through the 2004 model year. Squeezed in between all of that, BMW introduced the modern new and improved boxer engine (EFI, oil/air cooled) for the 1994 model year. It ran concurrent to the original airhead until the airhead was put to rest after the 1995 model year.
The boxer has uninterrupted airflow over the hottest part of the engine
I've had two oilheads. It is possible to like Bmw and Harley. I have both 😎👍
a BMW rider stole my coffee that had just finished brewing at my local motorcycle shop while I had my back turned picking up parts. they stole free coffee...
Plus I can wrench on my 1983 BMW much more easily than any new "Super" bike!
I literally said “Because fuck you that’s why” right before it said it on screen and now I’m very happy. Another great vid man!
Hah! I dig it, thank you man
R bikes are some of the best! Tell Richard his is looking real nice!
I almost bought a R80RT in the late 80s. Damn things will run forever.
You never get cold feet in the winter on the 83 RS
You rock Josh - you should get into politics
Lol
Your healthy attitude of a bit of respect and a dose of middle finger is exactly what we all need!
Be safe bud, hope you get to sling beers soon, I’ll even try n make it down there once the Stormtroopers stop guarding the Canadian Boarder!
First beers on me 🍻
Really enjoyed your BMW piece. I thought you might like to turn your talents to doing a similar piece on Triumph, and how it's roots are actually German, and was originally also a German company.
The difference between bmw and Harley is that bmw moved on with good engines and kept the heritage, where as harley just produce old stuff (sh#t imao)
one of the best motorcycles ever made
Great video.. Even though I’m not a BMW fan I still enjoy the fact they been around as long as they have. Ride safe brother.
As a german engineer I must say jeeessshhh, you got seriously no idea how engines work and which engines brings which benefits.
I don't have any experience with BMW's myself other than during the mid-70's when I was in middle school, I had a teacher with one that had a sidecar attached and it was his pride and joy, I've yet to hear anything negative about them personally, the only thing that could be construed as a negative would be the inability to use highway pegs due to the boxer engine but that's personal preference.
Yes, and Harley riders and BMW riders have some similar snobbery. Love my 45 twin and my boxer!
When you're road riding in the middle of nowhere and haven't seen another vehicle for 45 minutes and a motorbike headlight appears in the closing distance my experience is that you're about to pass another BMW R1200 RT rider. It isn't quick or fast but it is perfect for crushing big mile days and it can handle fun roads just fine.
Chris Fournier the S1000RR is super quick and that’s what it was designed to do the R1200RT is deigned you be a tourer and it does so very well while also being fairly quick when compared to other retro engineered tourers.
Recently bought a K1200LT. F*ing awsome beemer! Power and great comfort for short and long rides, and economic to: 20 kms/liter. Great ride 🎉
Same reason I won't wear a mask!
I disagree completely.
THE old BMW will far outlive the new BMW. couldn't pay me to own a new BMW or a Ducati there plagued with abs issues, suspension issues, spline drive issues. the list goes on and on. worked on many, owned bot a R model and a K model. The k model had constant bull crap BMW issues and will never live up to the old R. ID take the BIng any day over BMW fuel injection.
Well, I will say that Richard also owns a r1150rs (the Rickey Mandle edition) and I watched him put 100k trouble free miles on that bike
I'd totally pick a BMW over say a Harley or Indian.
I'm not a fan of that really old 80's square style fairing but if I had it, I'd drive it.
Opposed boxer cyldinders shake side to side, I'd rather have 3 cyldiners all exiting on the right side for setting your points and valve jobs.
The best bike is the one you own and have right there.
Watched one of your videos from 5 years ago and you had a thick country accent, what happened to that?
BMW is in tune to it's heritage. It's important to both remain faithful to your heritage when it makes sense while also pushing innovation in other areas.
I would also argue that the flat twin DOES have some engineering pluses over a traditional inline 4. It carries a lower center of gravity and has a wider spread of torque across it's rev range, making it less taxing to use it's power more effectively. Great for urban environments, light off roading, etc. (which is why the GS has a fan base)
Boxers (that I owned 3 so far RS, GS and GSA) are like big breast. You always stare at them and wonder how they feel :) In fact, they fell great!
BMW meeting "so uk the flag, logo rip off, "germans is suits- Yeah" SO we are gonna say its something to do with a propeller now" "germans in suits- Yeah but why" Lone german in suit " MONEY THATS WHY". "cheering in 8am hangover".
So many things are the same? That’s because it WORKS. Why fix something that’s not broken. There is a market for this type of bike. Reliable comfortable and refined. They’re designed for people who ride. Not for the posers who jump on for ½ an hour to film cop chasing videos.
I’ve got a R1200R and a ‘busa - like them equally. Horses for courses!
Primary difference between the Harley and the BMW.....the rider
HARLEY.......Dirtbag
BMW...........Douchebag
Similar yet distinctly unique
Ahah I totally get it. I have a Buell Lightning! Is there faster bikes? Yeah, cheaper bikes yeah... but! I love the weirdness of the Buell. The hopped up aircooled sporty motor, the hollow frame, the giant brake rotor... all of that makes the bike much more interesting to me. And let’s be real. It’s plenty fast!