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Excellent advice! Unless space constraints are an issue, I can’t see any reason to choose the WiiM over the Onkyo or any other big brand AVR in a similar price range. Streaming isn’t a concern for me or anybody who has an Apple TV or Roku or smart TV (which is probably 90% of the audience here).
@@KristiWright Thanks! I always watch your guys videos. I appreciate your content a lot more than 1990’s industrial design lol. Hey there’s an idea for a video, ranking each decades most iconic good and bad designs. Don’t worry I won’t expect any royalties ☺️
I used a Yamaha RX-V595 for 2 channel for close to 20 years and had zero complaints. In fact, since majorly upgrading my home set up, it has been relegated to my office with a topping D10 dac, and I stream to it directly from my computer, and frankly sounds amazing.
I got sucked in by the mini-receiver hype and bought an Arylic B50. After suffering through HDMI problems and mediocre sound I ditched it and got a refurbished Denon AVR and couldn't be happier. If you HAVE to have all the fancy streaming services (which 99% of people DON'T), just get a Wiim Pro and plug it into a cheap AVR. You'll be happier.
Why even bother with the Wiim, I like my Wiim Mini a lot, but but many even budget Denon and Marantz models have Heos built right in. If one prefers, they can still add a Wiim or the streamer of their choice, but far from a need.
I can't stream, so I use a lot of physicals, use a regular stereo receiver that not too ancient & not very modern but does the job quite well, has a lot of features & power also
Good to see Onkyo is still making great "entry level" recievers in 2024. I have a 2003 predecessor to this reciever, $399 at Circuit City, bought because it was the cheapest on the market that had all the features I wanted, 6-channel RCA, Dolby PL2, DTS and Dolby 6.1, and it's still chugging along today. This reciever playing well with the Focals shows that such budget-matching concerns are largely meaningless. One could decide to concentrate their budget on speakers and anchor the system with a cheapish-but-capable reciever. If your audio-nerd friends snicker at you for this, simply turn up the volume.
Thank you for this review. I have an old Onkyo TX SR608. Was using it for all HD inputs feeding into a plasma TV. The TV died and I replaced with a 4k LG. Now I feed the sound (with ARC) from the TV into the 608. I love this receiver.
I follow at least ten TH-cam HiFi ‘specialist’s ‘ and applaud this solution too! I also started with a Yamaha AVR after a long break from my original system that was stolen after a burglary. Incredible value for money . These amplifiers were three times the price about 20 years ago!
I donated my Onkyo amplifier to a friend in need and it’s doing really well. He found a good phono amp for his fabulous micro Seiko turntable and a second hand pair of KEFs from the 90’s!
My buddy wanted a cheap but good sounding stereo to get away from the Bluetooth speakers and soundbars. Hooked him up with an older onkyo tx receiver, 2 polk monitor 50's, an onkyo 10" subwoofer and an additional denon 8" subwoofer for about $175. He just went into shock after hearing it cuz he paid more for his bluetooth speaker than the stereo and the comparison obviously wasn't even close. That Onkyo that he got for $25 is still playing hard
The click while increasing volume is caused by a relay. It's in most amps and receivers. It activates or deactivates electronic circuits. In AV receivers it prevents speaker pop at start-up, activates or deactivates amp channels, and maybe activates high power circuits as you increase the volume.
I have to say that this is refreshing to see. A review that is on something I can actually afford/allowed to spend. Hahaha Thank you for taking the time to review this and other more affordable options. Now I just need to justify to my wife that we need to get a new one!! 😂😂 God bless and keep up the good work. Thank you
I have both. Denon AVR and the Wiim. The Wiim is in a small room where I didn't want an AVR to dominate the room. There is a place for both and if you live in a small apartment and are a streaming first person then the Wiim, to me, is the perfect way into hifi - or not
FYI I own the Onkyo TX5100 I bought a couple of months ago at Best Buy & they updated the push pin binding posts to banana plugs : the newest revision , for the win !
We tried to get confirmation about this change from Onkyo before filming but couldn't. The fact that it is on sale (amzn.to/3rRWM4l) now makes it a an even better get.
Thank you, thank you, Andrew! The great majority of online reviewers totally dismiss the value of an AV receiver for use in a hi-fi system. As an example, Darko, whose views I respect and whose channel I subscribe to and enjoy, would never entertain the idea of an AVR as "hi-fi" even though he actively endorses and promotes the ideals of minimalism and integration in stereo components, which he labels as "future-fi". The AVR is "future-fi"! And it has been so for a long number of years. What can be more minimal or integrated than a single box solution to handle all your av and stereo needs? Can you use an AVR for hi-fi playback? Hell yes! I have done it for more than 20 years. David
I couldn't agree more! I have been using various AVRs for music because they provide great functionality and - importantly - a nice margin in the power budget (if you only use 2 channels) - preventing power compression (contrary to most budget chi-fi amps). They virtually lie on the street, so it's very easy to try all major brands with their "home sound" signatures. They provide many options for experimenting - which will also accelerate younger audiophiles in their journey. I ended up using a higher-tier Yamaha AVR (RX-A) as a streamer and pre-amp with an older but beefy (20KG+) Marantz 5-ch. power stage driving a pair of Magnepans (with 2 subs) - and it gives me everything I ask of it. There's EQ for less-than-audiophile-quality recordings - and pure-direct analog mode to connect an external DAC of choice for critical listening. And you are not limited to the popular AVRs like Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo or Pioneer - how about Rotel, Arcam or Emotiva with even more power budget?
I agree 100%. Yes. Yes, you can use a receiver for any good to great stereo setup. A 20 year old Yamaha AVR with good speakers, even better separation 8'+, old Blu-ray as CD transport thru TOSLINK, using 25 year old Transparent speaker cables and interconnects. It sounds great for all types of music! Maybe it's time for an upgrade...Onkyo! (I know, I was sucker back then for overpriced wires!)
I haven't found any AV Receivers that satisfy my music passion needs, so l just add a Arcam Stereo Amp to Preouts of Marantz Cinema 70 AV Receiver and do AV Bypass for separate Music playback, works great get Best of both worlds then
I took the time to consider how well an AVR would work for stereo before selecting my AVR. I can understand that some units without measuring up to the consumer's hearing or expectations, but I am certain that you will find what you seek, even if it means making a choice from another. Keep your options open and listen and buy what makes you happy and, as Andrew says, be satisfied with what you bought!
I feel like this just makes the Onkyo TX-NR6050 an even better deal than it was before. It has all of the 4k 120Hz and 8k 60Hz support while providing the extra 2 channels (with real binding posts) and can be had for $399 just about anywhere these days. I love my NR6050 and feel like it is and was an absolute steal of a deal.
Hi Andrew, I am 71 years old and have been pursuing this hobby since I was 12 - built a few Heathkits (griefkits is what we used to call them ) an allied shortwave receiver, and a couple of Dynaco amps along the way, and a hafler dh-200 years ago. I dont build them any more but I do try to buy good value equipment that lets me enjoy music without the intrusion of noise and distortion from badly designed equipment. That said, I think a decent HT receiver is a perfectly acceptable way to enjoy music and I have for years enjoyed my HTR-5560 yamaha receiver, both as a stand alone unit using the internal amps and as just a preamp processor with some of Bob Carver's wonderful amplifiers as foundations for reproducing live levels in my home. Speakersd? VMPS Tower II special edition mains with their center and AR3a's as surround speakers and the wonderful VMPS larger subwoofer (2 0f them) rounding out the bottom end. Each channel was blessed with at least 600w/channel of power thru Bob's genius creations. Alas a home fire in late april of this year destroyed all of that equipment and now I am starting over. The VMPS speakers are no longer available...the Yamaha HTR-5560 is available only in unrestored used condition and Bob Carver's amps are a vanishing breed. That said, I am leaning towards the high powered Emotiva amps and the Yamaha A6A Receiver as a replacement for the old Yamaha, and considering a set of Legacy Audio Focus as the Front LR, a pair of Signatures as rear surrounds, a Legacy audio Marquis XD center speaker and a a pair of deep sea sound 18" powered subs as the foundation for the system. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on these choices - The room its going in is 15x18 with a sloped ceiling that goes from 10' to 20' along the long dimension of the room. Room will have carpeted floor and sheetrock walls and ceiling.
THIS IS IT! I’m admittedly newer to the audiophile hobby but I couldn’t help but think why would you buy 3 cheap $89 devices with low end class D amps and exaggerated wattage when you could get a decent avr (good one if you wait for a sale)that’s loaded with features!!!
Years ago when I was looking for speakers and amplification, I thought that I would have to buy atleast an integrated amp because all the hifi forum guys were saying that AVR's suck for music. I went to the Magnolia at one of the local Best Buys to demo speakers. They had the B&W 702's connected to a Pioneer VSX LX-504 AVR. They sounded wonderful together with my test tracks, and that was when I knew that audiophiles are full of sh*t. I've heard the high end rigs; I've gone to the audio shows; I know what good sound sounds like when I hear it. And my precious Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 (what I ended up buying) does a fine job paired with my JBL Studio 590s. You can totally get good sound from an AVR!
Thanks Andrew (and Kristi). In addition, there is huge value in used AVRs for music listening. A $2000 original MSRP 10-15 year old AVR can be had for peanuts ($100-200 often, in excellent condition with remote) and can sound awesome with most speakers for 2-channel or 2.1 listening since they have great bass management also. Used Anthems, which could have been $2000 new, are $300-400 on the used market and are excellent. Their value drops like a rock because they don’t have the latest gaming or home theater specs.
Love this review, receivers are a great solution. What are the benefits, if any, of using a dedicated streamer such as the Wiim, as opposed to a Roku 4K, with a receiver like this one? Is it really worth the extra $$?
My old Technics amp just died and I was thinking about buying the WiiM amp. By chance I saw Yamaha AV on FB marketplace place and managed to get it for £140, total bargain! I’m currently using it in Stereo mode with a Kef sub, WiIM Pro and Topping Dac and I’m really happy with the sound.
I like my Denon AVR. I would not limit the quality of speakers to use with it. I use it for a 2.1 system for video and music, and it is totally satisfying. The feature set and performance of AVRs is great for the money. Audyssey offers an EQ tool that let you pinpoint the frequencies who want to emphasize for best sound.
Love your reviews and agree with you here. I'm a retiree on a budget. Hence I have a Yamaha RX-V4A ($229/3yr warranty) for my main and a Fosi Audio ($50) for garage streaming. 😊
My 17 year old Arcam AVR300 ($2,000 new in 2007) still rivals entry level separates in terms of sonic performance, with a huge toroidal transformer (a real 100w x 7) and capacitor bank, Stereo Direct option, and a bi-amp function for channels 6&7 to use on the main speakers, giving 200wpc on tap. More than enough for 90% of speakers on the market.
I have nothing against AVRs in general. My main problem with them is that some of them cheap out where I wish they didn’t, like the quality of the power unit itself. It’s far from everyone, it’s far from every brand as well. I personally keep going back from a fairly expensive soundbar setup, to a full surround setup for the bedroom and haven’t decided yet really, but I’m starting to lean more and more towards the old school AVR with a few smaller sized speakers. And although many soundbar can very much achieve a full sound, I’m very sensitive to having a very specific type of sound and quality to it, which pushes me more towards full on surround setup. That being said, I’ll never “cheap out” by going with a small china made amplifier like Wiim. It can be an incredible piece of tech, but I live by a simple rule: the stingy always pays twice. I also have horrible luck with tech, period. So this review is perfect for me as I’m now way closer to an actual choice. I like Onkyo and always have. This might be my choice, unless I go with that Sony you mentioned. Either way, great review and video! Thank you guys and hope everyone has an awesome weekend, and a Happy Easter for those who celebrate!
I always love your thoughts on whatever we're discussing because you consider all sides and arguments and do so in such a complete way. I really value you and your opinions, and I hope people in our community here on the channel do too! Have a great rest of your day, and best to you and the family!
@@Moonplant432 that’s exactly my point. There are tons of awesome products that could be considered cheap or are much cheaper than competition. But most of the time, there’s a reason for it, absolutely.
I just returned my Wiim after about 20 minutes of listening. My speakers have a sensitivity of 86 and these just had enough to get the sound to just 70 db. It got me thinking that I would have issues with classical music. I also tried a Yamaha avr but my wife just did not want something that big on the console since it would not fit in any of the cubbies. I bought the SVS SoundBase and wow what a difference. I didn't even bother to AB any of the other amps. Just packed them up and returned them. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the Wiim. If I had a smaller build and a more sensitive speaker setup it's possible the Wiim could have sufficed. I would definitely consider getting it for my daughter when she moves out and wants a nice small set up. Thanks for your videos, I've learned a lot.
I’ve waited months for someone to review this. If you shop around you can easily find it for 349 down to 299. I really don’t think you can find a better value for a new 5.2 receiver right now
I started over a year ago with a Marantz Cinema 50, and slowly integrated and phased it out to a McIntosh stereo system. There’s some functionality I definitely miss but much prefer the simpler layout, I have my TV connected to the preamp through earc, a turntable and a WiiM pro plus as a streamer. I loved the cinema 50 but the audiophile in me took over the setup.
Appreciate your take here. Never heard the Wiim amp. Do have Wiim pro and a SMSL SU-1 Dac in my vintage systems. They play well together. Also have a Fosi BT20 blue tooth class d amp. Played so well on my vintage gear had to try it in my primary system. The Fosi pushed my $5000 Bryston A 1 very well. Rated 4 ohms and 88db efficient. Tbh was shocked how well. The Fosi will not replace my Hegel H190 but it was a fun experience. HiFi should be fun. All the best.
I would never buy an Onkyo receiver again. A few years ago they released the latest firmware update for my TX-NR616. I tried to install it as usual. It got stuck at 61%. Since then my receiver stopped working, I called them and told them about my experience. They just said, "We apologize, we know the firmware for your receiver was listed as the correct one, but it is not compatible with your receiver." So out of irresponsibility, I now have a ruined receiver because Onkyo didn't delete the firmware from their website. Never again Onkyo.
Inexcusable. I wonder if there is any consumer protection available to you. Much like “lemon laws” holding a manufacturer or seller responsible for a 100%, no questions asked refund. Different states have different laws in place.
This! So much this! Receivers are so criminally underrated. In just about every other walk of life, as the list of things something can do competently to even great grows, it becomes more and more in demand. Some audiophiles use this list as a checklist in reverse. Oh, you say it can do B, what a joke of a product then, no way am ai buying something that can do B, I just need A, don't want antlything else "distracting" it. It can't possibly be any good at A if it can also do B. It is like someone who only speaks English who is buying interpreting service as he has a meeting with a German and French executive. They proudly tell him they have a great deal for him as he can get the services of one person that is a great interpreter for both languages for the session for only $1k. He then asks what do you have as far as separate interpreters that can't crossover between German and French? They say well we do have that available, but it will be $1,700 each, and you will lose a lot of abilities....... while she is still talking, the customer says I will take them!!!
I didn't want this getting too long, so I decided to break it up. I keep seeing videos about these new hyped up 2 channel amps that are finally adding HDMI ARC. However, other than compact size, it is pretty hard to get excited when there are thousands of recent receivers with HDMI ARC that can be had used, shipped to my door for under $100 that will thoroughly destroy the Wiim Amp in stereo, and while the Wiim is still licking it's wounds the receiver will be kicking it on Avengers in 5.1.2! Further upmarket, I haven't checked in the last couple of years, but literally no dedicated pre-amp could match, let alone beat the Denon x3600h on most measurements at Audio Science Review. I am not going to say that all of these huge gains from integrated receivers or separates over receivers are placebo effect, but I will say that based on my personal testing, I don't see how it can be anything else in a lot of cases. Me personally, I have plenty of dedicated amps, processors, and integrated amps around. However, nothing beats my Arcam AVR30 to my ears. I also find that I use receivers in most of my systems as I hear no penalty in quality and they just do everything I need, in a single box. What more can you ask for?
This is quite timely. I just purchased an older (2017, I think) Onkyo Tx-8270 on a whim. I tested it in place of my Audiolab 6000A Play with my Wharfedale Lintons, and much to my surprise, I love the sound even more than my Audiolab. I've A/B tested for about a week, and the Audiolab is getting sold. This was completely unexpected, but I'm more than happy with the older Onkyo.
My stereo is in my living room. So is my TV, Blu Ray, and my kids’ Nintendo Switch. AVRs do a fine job with stereo. Something I wish you would do is something you touched on in the last unplugged: what is available today is an embarrassment of riches compared to twenty years ago. IDK if showing old components with prices adjusted for inflation and comparable performance with what you can get today, is feasible. It often seems that many in our little niche want the world for $99.99.
Older higher end AVRs can be a bargain for two channel listening. As AVRs they are considered obsolete because they do not have the latest audio codecs, so no one wants them. For stereo listening none of that matters and many have really good amplifiers, dacs and, often, a half decent phono stage as well. Lots of them also have bi-amp capability so you can repurpose un-used amplifiers to bi-amp speakers if you are into that sort of thing.
Nice job Andrew, and Happy Easter! I think the Wiim Amp's strong suit is exactly what you mentioned - to be tied into an existing amplifier for streaming use, or particularly as a source for lower volume listening, like my upcoming deck project, etc. The convenience of it is unparalleled, and the Wiim's do an _amazing_ job syncing throughout a home.
That's awesome! I prefer them with the grilles on myself, but they're not as interesting to film all covered up. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
They balance each other out really well. I'm moving toward watching the Friday video and only going back to the solo video if I want the full sales pitch.
Great video Andrew! Someone had to say it, electronically there is nothing that makes an AVR be worse then a 2 chan amplifier, it just depends on how each one of them is build. For years I’ve been powering my Klipsch RF7-II’s with an old Onkyo TX-SR608 from 2010 and although the HDMIs are old versions the sound continues to be accurate, very strong and dynamic 👌
I dumped my Denon 5.1 AVR three years ago for the Cambridge CXA-81. Yes, I lost 5.1 for movies but for hi-fi playback, the sound from the CXA-81 smashes my old AVR to pieces. Not even close, night and day difference. However, if I were to purchase a new AVR, and maybe I will one day, the Onkyo here would be on the shortlist. I just listen to music more now at my old age of 50+.
You're AVR must have been crap then because my Denon x3800h has been a god send.. With my Wharfedale Standing speakers. And speakers on Stands and my SVS Subwoofer. Is absolutely stunning sound. Mind you i did get it professionally fitted for my room by a BANG & OLUFSEN.
@@ENGBriseB In fairness, it was an opening price point Denon with 5.1 so it is quite a mismatch versus the CXA-81. I've never heard the x3800h but it also would be on my shortlist. Big fan of Denon and Marantz. I'd also consider Onkyo (obviously) and Pioneer.
The form factor is due to the functionality. The Wiim has one hdmi and two speaker connections. For the same price or so you get more channels and more inputs. As well as this being able to handle multiple rooms
@@user-jm8ky1kn2t Yup , I get that. But form factor is a big deal to me. I'm not interested in all the extra. I need one digital, one analog and possibly one HDMI . Nothing more and not interested in multiroom. The new WiiM ultra will be more than enough.
@@pdubowner Hello,i bought Magnat 2002 model tower speakers and surrounds in a 5.1 setup, i was thinking to buy this receiver , could you pls recommend me other budget receivers which could be better than this? personally i don't like cheap built of Onkyo..but this has many features etc and little new generation as well.. pls suggest me something different
I agree with the comment on using an AVR in stereo mode for music listening. Many people automatically assume that an AVR cannot sound good or cannot compete with an integrated amp in the same price range. I believe that most of those people have never really listened to music through an AVR before. I have a Sony mid-price AVR (from 5-6 years ago) that, to me, sounds much better than an NAD integrated amp at the same price - clearer, cleaner and more even across the frequency range.
I think you said it in the first 10 seconds. For those who are always chasing dac/amps there should be a DAC of the month club like Trunk Club or Watch of the month club. 😅
Great video. I do still miss the immediacy of K’s responses and questions within the same video. I thought this part of your format was what really made a big difference. Also love your more general unplugged newsy chats. I also realise you can’t do everything as you put a lot of planning into everything you do.
For many years I used a Denon AVR-988 for both stereo music & HT and I never had any complaints. Granted, that was a higher end receiver at the time. Before that I had been using an old Newcastle R-725 (a Pro Logic unit) that was an absolute monster for 2-channel listening (it still is actually - friends are using it for that purpose). These days I have dedicated HT and stereo setups in my listening space. I don't HAVE to, but more toys = more fun, right? :)
I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet, but the Onkyo TX-NR6050 (not sold by Costco anymore, but available elsewhere) is a step above this for basically the same price. I bought mine last year for $349. It has a bit more power, more channels, Wi-Fi, and built-in streaming. Why get the 3100 if you can get the 6050?
I on a Onkyo A-9010 and it destroys amps up to 700$, even the Rotel A11 Tribute, was cleaner sounding but not as exiting as the onkyo. Onkyo is deeply undervalued and a hidden gem!
In the past, a major drawback with most A/V receivers for stereo use is having to hook up a TV to access the menu and make adjustments. As you went higher in a manufacturers line, you'd get fancier remotes. If the remote died, you pretty much had a door stop. That was then.... Now, the question of the day is, why do dedicated stereo receivers without all the bells and whistles cost the same as A/V receivers oozing the latest technology. All the tech, extra amplification, etc. can't be cheap.
Great review! AVR can definitely be used for Hifi. Now waiting for the next backyard progress pick. Looked like the retaining wall was finished and backfilled . Looking good 👍🏻
Yes, you can use AVRs for 2-channel hi-fi listening. I use a Pioneer Elite SC-LX501 for both home theater and stereo music, both with great results. I also use and old Sony DA4ES as a stereo amp to power my desktop system, running HDMI from the computer into the TV that I use as a monitor and then optical from the TV to the receiver. This also sounds great.
I have a wiim amp and love it . have two Kef bookshelf speakers . The wiim amp is much smaller allowing me to place it on my office desk . Overall I would still pick wiim.
In a desktop situation where you don't need to turn things up since you're listening in the near field, I'm not surprised that you are happy with your purchase.
Great video! I have an older flagship Onkyo tx sr-875 in use for stereo listening. It weighs around 50lbs and can drive nearly anything (magnepans not tested). As far as im conserned it has been absolutely fantastic for music and movies. Paid less than 200€ for it used and could not be happier.
I was quite surprised that the Onkyo didn't offer wifi streaming or wired as well. I think the Wiim products are "cool" and gadgety. I don't have a high end system. My main receiver is a Yamaha A2080. I bought a Wiim Pro Plus streamer to see how it compared with streaming straight through the Yamaha (Sabre DAC). I still felt the Yamaha sounded a bit better.
Very nice video. I just saw your other friends video on the Wiim. I feel more comfortable with a traditional amplifier. Thank you guys. Happy EASTER 🐰🐣
If hifi shops still existed (and people had the chance to compare products in person), listeners would never choose a Wiim amp as their favorite. With no hifi shops, hype is what pushes the bottom line into profitability.
Hype drove folks to dealers back in the day too. But in my opinion, there's hype and then there's lying. The manufacturers (and others) are outright lying or purposely misleading would-be customers about the performance of some of these cheap amps.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’ve always been surprised at youtube hypers who don’t see the conflict in accepting Wiim marketing money while continuing to mention said product in a positive light. That is why I rarely watch any other channel beyond this one.
I think one of the best values in two channel stereo is a used, near top of the line AVR from around 2015 give or take a few years. You can pick up a pioneer elite or a Denon are Sony from that era used add a great price. I've got a couple chip amps that I really like for the money, but realistically they just can't hang with my pioneer elite from 2015.
I really liked the perspective. My main system is centred on a Pioneer 7.2 receiver I bought new in 2019 for just over 300€. This one, apart from what this Onkyo offers, also had an option for the European version of Digital radio (DAB+) via a USB dongle, as well as network support (both wired and wireless), with built-in clients for Internet Radio and Tidal. It also supports Chromecast, with Tidal Connect. And last, but not least, it can decode SACD via HDMI from SACD players. So, even though this was never top of the line, I still find it hard to beat in terms of features, particularly if I consider the price point and what you can get for it, even now, when we're spoilt for options.
I started with stereo speakers connected to a NAD D3020. Then I replaced the NAD with a Marantz Receiver (slim line - nothing fancy). I believe the DSP alone was sufficient to enhance the sound of the same speakers on the Marantz. Considering all the functionality, I have no doubt that a receiver can outperform an integrated amp, at least at the entry level.
I have a NAD D3020, compared to your new amp without the DSP (if you tested it), did you find any significant difference? I compared it to my other amp (a Denon) and found it really hard to perceive any difference. I also compared it to one of those cheap class D Chinese amps and there was some difference, but a very small one, certainly not 10x difference (as the price). I'm starting to think that amps are quite easy to build nowadays, after all an amp just has to amplify the sound with the minimum coloration possible, and this does not require super expensive equipment (while speakers are another story).
@@TommasoPaba As far as I can remember, I think the Marantz without DSP was worse than the NAD. Nothing crazy, but the treble was harsh on the Marantz. I also compared the NAD with some cheap Topping and there was almost no difference. Lastly, I also tried the same speakers with an entry-level Cambridge Audio, and it was the worst of all - the sound was muddy. So, I think the amp can make a difference, but not always
Use an older version of this unit for my main TV room 2-channel listening (driving classic Pioneer HPM-100 200-watt version speakers!), with Sony X950H smart-TV apps providing the music streaming (w/ large cover art) and not only is the largely neutral presentation a perfect foil for warm 70s era speakers, it actually upscales cable better than the Sony. Finally, the built-in room correction (w/ tiny little mic) worked perfectly despite partial blockage with a couch of the right channel. Got it for less than $300 years ago, and laugh at any snobbery. Onkyo punches above it's weight, as long as you understand the 'weight' isn't 4 tons. Thanks Andrew!
I would love if you could assign the channels as 4.2.1, meaning re-assigning the center channel as a mono height. Sure it won't give you much in the way of stereo height movement, but if you're a single listener? I can see it being a great budget option for "Atmos". Sadly that's not something Atmos supports
Andrew...I came to the conclusion I am an easily influenced human....more than once I have spent small amounts on "the hype"...little class D amps with outrageous power claims etc. I have come running back to class a/b with my head on fire after being set ablaze by some of the best "suck you in" marketing I've seen....dacs and amps sell like hotcakes and sound like them too
I would say that the simplicity of a bare-minimum Class D amplifier implementation is the only reason we're seeing these misleading products in Class D and not Class A or AB. Class D clearly has a place in high-end audio, and is being used effectively by NAD, basically every soundbar, basically every powered subwoofer, and most powered speakers. To me, this isn't much different than the deluge of Chromebooks that used a cheap Mediatek chip that was originally made for set-top boxes (think Comcast cable box). The difference is, people notice when a computer is slow because they have a good point of reference, but many listeners don't have a point of reference relative to their WiiM amp.
hey Luke...my comment has more to do with how we process marketing....I know the class distinctions between A, A/B, D, & T because I worked for Nakamichi (1987) when they were producing "Stasis" amps with design from Nelson Pass in the 80's my comment is connected with marketing, not sound quality...@@lukemcdo
Been a huge fan of Onkyo for ages as a bang for the buck rx. While I use a Q990C for home theater, my old TX-SR605 with a WiiM Pro and a pair of old Infinity RS5s handle the music in more than an acceptable way. They aren't my Line Drive/Citations/B&W 801 S2s, but they don't cost more than my current car either.
I bought the RXV6A a couple years ago and really like it, especially MusicCast to my surprise. Still I sometimes think about looking for a used Denon like the one this Yamaha replaced when it died. I find I miss the preamp outs and 7 channel input more than I like atmos and HDMI. I realize this makes me sort of a dinosaur.
I agree with you about pre-outs. Pre-outs are still a prerequisite on a receiver for me. It's just ridiculous how much they expect you to pay to get them on new AVRs these days, which is one reason why I stick with used, and I don't use my receivers for video so I don't care about HDMI inputs.
I'm missing Ms KR's input. I like her approach and it seriously adds to a product. BTW from your review, Onkyo has done this previously with the A9010 stereo integrated. A storming budget amp for about £200 if memory serves me correctly.
Great review 👍 While the WiiM AMP is a great product it is always good to have other options! The Onkyo seems like a reliable product that will serve the user well for many years.
I use my Arcam AVR10 that I got used for $700 with tidal connect for my music and it sounds fantastic. I put it in direct mode and connected to my higher end DAC from my office setup and honestly it was a very minimal difference, and my wife actually liked the Arcam sound better. I’m good with my AVR for music, i don’t care to find out the difference by adding a streamer that costs more money than the AVR.
I’m using a Yamaha RX-V481 I bought in 2016. In surround sound terms it works well for movies and TV, but the “courtesy DAC” is definitely showing its age and struggles a bit musically.
Recently purchased a Yamaha RX-A2A for $475 brand new from Adorama to use as a 2 channel preamp. Have not purchased a separate amp yet but am very happy using the internal amp for 2 channel music. Not to mention it handles DSD via HDMI and a ridiculous amount of other features.
I’m a big fan of the features for money and the sound quality of the Onkyo’s, just not the durability. I’ve had two over the past 15 years and both failed, specifically the HDMI circuits. I wish I could say my Denon was more reliable, but my AVR X4400H had to go in under warranty for an HDMI board replacement. Thankfully it failed under warranty. If I had to do it again it would probably be Yamaha or Sony, simply from a build quality perspective.
It's crazy, people are getting rid of AVRs for little DAC/Amps or sound bars. That means you can find good AVRs in thrift stores for almost nothing. I bought an Onkyo TX-NR608 new years ago to get HDMI inputs instead of the RCA spaghetti behind my old 5.1 separates. I feel that was a good value and it's still going strong but I recently found a used TX-NR616 for $24.99 and a TX-NR609 for $14.99 (with a dented faceplate). They are both old but both are still going strong and at that price adding an external DAC or streamer still leaves you with a crazy affordably system that can do stereo or surround very well. Another thing I lucked in to was a pair of Klipsch KG4 speakers in pretty good condition for $30 so that with my $14.99 TX-NR609 is going to be my ultimate $45 garage stereo. That's right, people are evidently getting rid of pretty nice (but large) speakers too. The important thing to realize is that almost every decent AVR has quite good amplifiers and the specs haven't improved much since the 1980s. Speakers on the other hand introduce lots of distortion so it's better to have good speakers and an ok amp than ok speakers and a good amp. As for good speakers, beyond how they sound, you want a smooth impedance curve that stays above 4 ohms or maybe higher if you have a good amp that just doesn't like low impedance loads. All three of my Onkyos can probably drive speakers that dip in to the 3 ohm level because their amps are pretty beefy but that might limit the volume before they clip. I don't have them in rooms large enough to cause a volume issue. My living room/home theatre is about 500 ft². My garage is bigger but it doesn't need the dynamics of a home theatre, just good tunes while I'm working. I should upgrade my home theatre speakers because they are just some Polk speakers I got on clearance around the same time I got the TX-NR608 and a cheap 12" powered sub but these days my audio upgrades are the under $30 thrift store variety because I changed careers to improve my work/life balance and I'm quite a bit happier with keeping my old stereo than having a budget to get audiophile stuff but hating my life.
still using a pioneer vsx-1211k from 2011 (yikes 13 years!!!) as a preamp for music and pre/pro for home theater with some big boy Emotiva amps for power..my minimum criteria for a receiver is pre-outs for upgrading. Cheers!!!!
It’s a great comparison. Focusing on amplification and flexibility. The lack of update simplicity and streaming is not am issue. Thanks for doing that vid
This review and this product suddenly opens up possibilities for us. Thank you once again Andrew and Kristy! Looking to replace my 25 year old Technics SA-DX950 AV receiver. We are saving for an onkyo tx-rz 50 (as per your recomedations It would be able to drive most speakers / best bang for euro) make our record player, games console, cable mediaplayer and TV sound better. We have a small to medium room and a large bookcase. The 3100 now gives us the possibility to upgrade sooner and already add Klipsch rp-1000sw sub. The warfdale Denton 3's will hold up a little bit longer for replacement by either evo 4.1 or focal chora 806 (yes, still available in The Neterlands). Would love your advice on either of those speakers as we listen to mostly jazz and singer-songwriters and movies with mostly dialogue
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either speaker. Both are very good! Stylistically, the Evo's may have more longevity than the Choras. If you haven't yet, watch our reviews of the speakers to help you in your decision. Evo 4.1 th-cam.com/video/jHT55r-O-uc/w-d-xo.html Chora 806 th-cam.com/video/aTS4_FgYBG8/w-d-xo.html
With the pace of change in Wi-Fi, streaming and Bluetooth protocols I would prefer that a streamer is not built in. That way I can keep the amp or reciever for a longer period of time, and just update the streamer. Same as I wouldn't have pruchased a system with a CD built in. As it is I can swap from CD to DVD to Blueray to 4K players without replacing the reciever. That's what components were designed for. Same reason I do not like smart TV's. I would rather plug in the latest video streamer.
yeah pretty much that. thats the huge issue with all in one solutions, when they get released they are real good value... but audio is not a sprint. what i want to know, are they good value a year down the line still and the answer is most likely: no. its weird that you bring that comparison because its quite accurate. NOONE in the hifi world would buy an amp with an integrated cd player. if a year down the line streaming changes or theres a new cool room correction coming out...i literally have to replace everything. i use an old kenwood amp and i love this guy. plently power, sounds really nice, easy to repair and it barely even gets handwarm to the touch. its a good solid workhouse, it simply works. and all i have to worry about or deal with are things like streamers or dacs... well actually mostly streamers because dacs came to a point they are so ridiculously precise and clean, you cant barely even measure any distortions or whatnot. well yeah streamer then... i can basically just every once in a while or so buy the newest wiim pro or whatever, resell my old one and keep my system up to date without any need to change my amp at all. in fact even: and i am just an above average audio enjoyer, i think the only way i had to get a new amp is if it breaks on me beyond repair.
Thanks! I have no problem using an A/V for my listening as I prefer a balanced life. I gave up high end stereo when I had children as room for a theater was where my stereo in my great room was. The KEF's went on to a new owner and I haven't looked back. Most important my wife loves the set up!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Last night I enjoyed the separates which is a McIntosh MX122 with two Mc201's, Golden Ear reference, Golden Ear 1000's, Golden Ear center, Super bass sub, and 4 height ceiling Golden Ear speakers. 57K at the time of purchase. lol My other is a Marantz 8015....ect.
Low distorting speakers makes you listen way louder without strain. It could be that your speakers start distorting and compressing. Or that your amplifier is too weak.
Here I am sitting with a fiio and a dayton audio amp on my computer. That has a cost of around $400. Still quite a good dac, and yet an argument for maybe using a avr. Also the dac works as a good headphone amp. l think the dac and power is much better than the avr around this cost; Although I don't have the flexibility of an avr. Interesting point.
Loving the videos guys. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with listening to stereo music with your AV Receiver. 👍 Just one thing that never gets discussed, I’ve had two Onkyo AV Receivers in the past, and I’ve found them, build quality wise a bit fragile. Plus they sounded awful in Direct mode. How do you guys think Onkyo Receivers under a £1000.00 stack up against the Maranz Cinema 70 or 60?
The Marantz products cost twice what this Onkyo commands and have more by way of features, so I would consider them a worthy upgrade and a good "investment" without going crazy. They're the better products, for sure.
You have mentioned in the past how much you like Arylic. How about you build full system around two fosi ZA3 as monoblocks and an Arylic BP50 preamp. Total cost for those three components should be around $400, $50 more than that Onkyo. You might be surprised.
Can you use a avr for 2 channels? Yes. I am using an anthem 1140 in a 7.2.4 configuration with focal 936 k2 speakers. The anthem allows you to do different room corrections including 2channel Perfect!
i have the similarly speccd Denon thats for sale from Costco - it is slightly more expensive and has wireless and streaming support. There's great value to be had in the 500 bucks price range. i was always tempted to drop a 1000 on an avr but its really diminishing returns after 500 for me as im not an audiophile.
What a weird comparison of product with the wiim amp. Fine review of the onkyo but completely different use cases. You buy the wiim amp because of the streamer that also has an amp/dac built inside. The fact that you don't have built in streaming plus already making it slightly more expensive you're nearly double the price already. Yes the wiim amp doesn't have hdmi 2.2, fine. Its not really made for home theater. the better comparison would be a used receiver that also doesn't have 2.2 at a fraction of the price. Still, that wouldn't even talk about aesthetics which typically are big on your channel. I bought a wiim amp because its small, aesthetically pleasing and easily places 2.0/2.1 with minimal effort and minimalist look. You don't have to plug anything else into it and it looks great on table top. If i want i can add a record player. Eventually, i might add a frame tv to my common/living room mounted on my wall above my sound system with hidden wires. Now picture that set up with a big black box onkyo avr. Id have to buy a specific piece of furniture to hide the thing that wont overheat or have it sitting out. Night and day different product.
I'm glad you're enjoying your WiiM, that's all I want for anyone. I just find the WiiM to be overhyped (not to mention misleading with respect to its specs). In this case, a lot of would be WiiM customers, specifically those looking for a solution for their living rooms etc., would be doing themselves a disservice by ignoring AVRs like the Onkyo. That's all. I will concur that the WiiM is the "sexier" looking package, but it doesn't deliver on all that it promises as it relates to power and sound quality, which we (and others) have demonstrated. To me that's reason enough NOT to give a company my business, for if they're okay with lying to customers, that's not a business I want to reward with my money.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews thanks for the reply. I think some of what you're saying is valid about performance and the wiim amp is not an end all be all product. I am saying it seems like 2 or 3 separate conversations. 1) this Onkyo is a good product, here's why, heres a review. Consider buying it over a class d chifi amp 2) this streamer amp combo is overrated and over hyped. Its specs dont deliver. Still, its a streamer first so recommending a non streamer doesn't make sense 3) don't want to give recommendations on products/companies that aren't honest on specs/delivery. Then you recommended wiim product as a pairing is pretty counter to your argument. I understand the wiim pro/plus/ standard is a different product but stll same org. Also, plenty of avr companies seem to lie about watts/specs. With all of that said, i do enjoy your content and thank you for putting it out there. This just seems like a pretty odd head to head and to me. it seems like a shoehorned gripe with the wiim amp pushed into this Onkyo review
WiiM Amp is not a Hi-Fi product. But a WiiM streamer with a budget friendly AV receiver like the mentioned Onkyo is the way to go. I like more aesthetics of the WiiM Amp, and its dimensions too, but do we want to live in the future with audio products who almost destroying Hi-Fi values? WiiM must be accepted as a borderline supplement to the Hi-Fi world and not like one of the leading forces for future innovations for good sound. On the positive side WiiM and SONOS are the fancy way to better sound with those, shall we say, lifestyle products. I personally could buy a WiiM amp and after two years of decision making I am coming to purchase Onkyo for sure. Those are not needed steps for audiophile hobby.
@@MotoMatini Is streaming not hi-fi because it's not analog? Seems like think so when you use the words borderline supplement. Perhaps a wiim amp isnt "hifi." So what? Its a cheap, minimalist product as outlined above that can play pretty decent quality sound for a variety of speakers with strong spousal approval factor. Not every rig in your house needs to be your definition of "hi-fi." It'll still sounds better than most common peoples' set-ups. you could also do just that (2 years and upgrade the amp/dac) and use the wiim amp simply just as streamer like the wiim pro plus and wouldn't have spent much more. Again, my point is that these are 2 very different products for very different use cases. IDGAF about 5 channels or dolby services that the onkyo provides for my use case, i do want streaming though which it doesn't. Its like arguing my truck doesn't hold as many people as your mini-van. Sure, but it hauls things, thats why i got it. Yeah, i guess you can attach a trailer to your minivan but they're very still different and for different uses. Lastly, this "it isn't hifi" thing seems very gatekeepy.
OK, here in Norway is 02:39 on my clock, but I shall respond. Yes, one product is a truck and another is a minivan in the car world. Many people buy what they want to have and not necessarily what they really need. But regardless of the product, if the producent of a truck or minivan shows 200 HP strong engines, then I want to pay for 200 HP. But if I find that truck essentially has 180 HP I buy a minivan. Hi-Fi world is even more rigid on produsent data and there laying my borderline mark. You are right, the WiiM Amp is OK and people want simplicity and style. Like every other new product, WiiM and SONOS need time to implement refinement in solutions and sound stages. I am more for traditional Hi-Fi and the lack of better designs among "ordinary" AV receivers is not good for the Hi-Fi world. But many new products are very good and consumers have a variety of choices like never before. Nice!
Another great video. I've been using an Audio Lab 8000A stereo amp connected to a Yamaha DSP-E800 (5.1 DD/DTS) for the last near 30 years. But recently I have been mulling over changing them to a new Marantz Cinema 50 (still to be used as 5.1). But I am not sure if it would sound as good in stereo, or would be much of an upgrade for films.... I have always dismissed AVRs for music, but Andy's videos of new gear has given me doubt! 🙂
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Yamaha RX-V4A is on sale for the same $$ @ Crutchfield. You get wifi, LAN and everything the Onkyo has. Thanks for the review.
@@-loki-7727 Nice catch! The Yamaha would be another good value. On sale here - bit.ly/3VtMJzB
Excellent advice! Unless space constraints are an issue, I can’t see any reason to choose the WiiM over the Onkyo or any other big brand AVR in a similar price range. Streaming isn’t a concern for me or anybody who has an Apple TV or Roku or smart TV (which is probably 90% of the audience here).
@@richardbixler good to see you back!
@@KristiWright Thanks! I always watch your guys videos. I appreciate your content a lot more than 1990’s industrial design lol. Hey there’s an idea for a video, ranking each decades most iconic good and bad designs. Don’t worry I won’t expect any royalties ☺️
I used a Yamaha RX-V595 for 2 channel for close to 20 years and had zero complaints. In fact, since majorly upgrading my home set up, it has been relegated to my office with a topping D10 dac, and I stream to it directly from my computer, and frankly sounds amazing.
I got sucked in by the mini-receiver hype and bought an Arylic B50. After suffering through HDMI problems and mediocre sound I ditched it and got a refurbished Denon AVR and couldn't be happier. If you HAVE to have all the fancy streaming services (which 99% of people DON'T), just get a Wiim Pro and plug it into a cheap AVR. You'll be happier.
Why even bother with the Wiim, I like my Wiim Mini a lot, but but many even budget Denon and Marantz models have Heos built right in. If one prefers, they can still add a Wiim or the streamer of their choice, but far from a need.
I can't stream, so I use a lot of physicals, use a regular stereo receiver that not too ancient & not very modern but does the job quite well, has a lot of features & power also
Good to see Onkyo is still making great "entry level" recievers in 2024. I have a 2003 predecessor to this reciever, $399 at Circuit City, bought because it was the cheapest on the market that had all the features I wanted, 6-channel RCA, Dolby PL2, DTS and Dolby 6.1, and it's still chugging along today.
This reciever playing well with the Focals shows that such budget-matching concerns are largely meaningless. One could decide to concentrate their budget on speakers and anchor the system with a cheapish-but-capable reciever. If your audio-nerd friends snicker at you for this, simply turn up the volume.
Thank you for this review. I have an old Onkyo TX SR608. Was using it for all HD inputs feeding into a plasma TV. The TV died and I replaced with a 4k LG. Now I feed the sound (with ARC) from the TV into the 608. I love this receiver.
I follow at least ten TH-cam HiFi ‘specialist’s ‘ and applaud this solution too! I also started with a Yamaha AVR after a long break from my original system that was stolen after a burglary. Incredible value for money . These amplifiers were three times the price about 20 years ago!
I donated my Onkyo amplifier to a friend in need and it’s doing really well. He found a good phono amp for his fabulous micro Seiko turntable and a second hand pair of KEFs from the 90’s!
My buddy wanted a cheap but good sounding stereo to get away from the Bluetooth speakers and soundbars. Hooked him up with an older onkyo tx receiver, 2 polk monitor 50's, an onkyo 10" subwoofer and an additional denon 8" subwoofer for about $175. He just went into shock after hearing it cuz he paid more for his bluetooth speaker than the stereo and the comparison obviously wasn't even close. That Onkyo that he got for $25 is still playing hard
The click while increasing volume is caused by a relay. It's in most amps and receivers. It activates or deactivates electronic circuits. In AV receivers it prevents speaker pop at start-up, activates or deactivates amp channels, and maybe activates high power circuits as you increase the volume.
I have to say that this is refreshing to see. A review that is on something I can actually afford/allowed to spend. Hahaha Thank you for taking the time to review this and other more affordable options. Now I just need to justify to my wife that we need to get a new one!! 😂😂 God bless and keep up the good work. Thank you
I have both. Denon AVR and the Wiim. The Wiim is in a small room where I didn't want an AVR to dominate the room. There is a place for both and if you live in a small apartment and are a streaming first person then the Wiim, to me, is the perfect way into hifi - or not
FYI I own the Onkyo TX5100 I bought a couple of months ago at Best Buy & they updated the push pin binding posts to banana plugs : the newest revision
, for the win !
We tried to get confirmation about this change from Onkyo before filming but couldn't. The fact that it is on sale (amzn.to/3rRWM4l) now makes it a an even better get.
Thank you, thank you, Andrew!
The great majority of online reviewers totally dismiss the value of an AV receiver for use in a hi-fi system. As an example, Darko, whose views I respect and whose channel I subscribe to and enjoy, would never entertain the idea of an AVR as "hi-fi" even though he actively endorses and promotes the ideals of minimalism and integration in stereo components, which he labels as "future-fi".
The AVR is "future-fi"! And it has been so for a long number of years. What can be more minimal or integrated than a single box solution to handle all your av and stereo needs?
Can you use an AVR for hi-fi playback? Hell yes! I have done it for more than 20 years.
David
I couldn't agree more!
I have been using various AVRs for music because they provide great functionality and - importantly - a nice margin in the power budget (if you only use 2 channels) - preventing power compression (contrary to most budget chi-fi amps).
They virtually lie on the street, so it's very easy to try all major brands with their "home sound" signatures. They provide many options for experimenting - which will also accelerate younger audiophiles in their journey.
I ended up using a higher-tier Yamaha AVR (RX-A) as a streamer and pre-amp with an older but beefy (20KG+) Marantz 5-ch. power stage driving a pair of Magnepans (with 2 subs) - and it gives me everything I ask of it. There's EQ for less-than-audiophile-quality recordings - and pure-direct analog mode to connect an external DAC of choice for critical listening.
And you are not limited to the popular AVRs like Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo or Pioneer - how about Rotel, Arcam or Emotiva with even more power budget?
I agree 100%. Yes. Yes, you can use a receiver for any good to great stereo setup. A 20 year old Yamaha AVR with good speakers, even better separation 8'+, old Blu-ray as CD transport thru TOSLINK, using 25 year old Transparent speaker cables and interconnects. It sounds great for all types of music! Maybe it's time for an upgrade...Onkyo! (I know, I was sucker back then for overpriced wires!)
Personally I would advise a newbie to go with an AV receiver over a small amp for one simple reason, the power supply. Love the channel. Cheers 😊
I haven't found any AV Receivers that satisfy my music passion needs, so l just add a Arcam Stereo Amp to Preouts of Marantz Cinema 70 AV Receiver and do AV Bypass for separate Music playback, works great get Best of both worlds then
I took the time to consider how well an AVR would work for stereo before selecting my AVR. I can understand that some units without measuring up to the consumer's hearing or expectations, but I am certain that you will find what you seek, even if it means making a choice from another. Keep your options open and listen and buy what makes you happy and, as Andrew says, be satisfied with what you bought!
I feel like this just makes the Onkyo TX-NR6050 an even better deal than it was before. It has all of the 4k 120Hz and 8k 60Hz support while providing the extra 2 channels (with real binding posts) and can be had for $399 just about anywhere these days. I love my NR6050 and feel like it is and was an absolute steal of a deal.
Hi Andrew, I am 71 years old and have been pursuing this hobby since I was 12 - built a few Heathkits (griefkits is what we used to call them ) an allied shortwave receiver, and a couple of Dynaco amps along the way, and a hafler dh-200 years ago. I dont build them any more but I do try to buy good value equipment that lets me enjoy music without the intrusion of noise and distortion from badly designed equipment. That said, I think a decent HT receiver is a perfectly acceptable way to enjoy music and I have for years enjoyed my HTR-5560 yamaha receiver, both as a stand alone unit using the internal amps and as just a preamp processor with some of Bob Carver's wonderful amplifiers as foundations for reproducing live levels in my home. Speakersd? VMPS Tower II special edition mains with their center and AR3a's as surround speakers and the wonderful VMPS larger subwoofer (2 0f them) rounding out the bottom end. Each channel was blessed with at least 600w/channel of power thru Bob's genius creations. Alas a home fire in late april of this year destroyed all of that equipment and now I am starting over. The VMPS speakers are no longer available...the Yamaha HTR-5560 is available only in unrestored used condition and Bob Carver's amps are a vanishing breed. That said, I am leaning towards the high powered Emotiva amps and the Yamaha A6A Receiver as a replacement for the old Yamaha, and considering a set of Legacy Audio Focus as the Front LR, a pair of Signatures as rear surrounds, a Legacy audio Marquis XD center speaker and a a pair of deep sea sound 18" powered subs as the foundation for the system. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on these choices - The room its going in is 15x18 with a sloped ceiling that goes from 10' to 20' along the long dimension of the room. Room will have carpeted floor and sheetrock walls and ceiling.
This would be a great starter AVR that can easily serve the majority of folks.
THIS IS IT! I’m admittedly newer to the audiophile hobby but I couldn’t help but think why would you buy 3 cheap $89 devices with low end class D amps and exaggerated wattage when you could get a decent avr (good one if you wait for a sale)that’s loaded with features!!!
DING! DING! DING! For someone new to the hobby you're further along than a lot of folks. Appreciate you watching Roberto.
Years ago when I was looking for speakers and amplification, I thought that I would have to buy atleast an integrated amp because all the hifi forum guys were saying that AVR's suck for music. I went to the Magnolia at one of the local Best Buys to demo speakers. They had the B&W 702's connected to a Pioneer VSX LX-504 AVR. They sounded wonderful together with my test tracks, and that was when I knew that audiophiles are full of sh*t. I've heard the high end rigs; I've gone to the audio shows; I know what good sound sounds like when I hear it. And my precious Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 (what I ended up buying) does a fine job paired with my JBL Studio 590s. You can totally get good sound from an AVR!
I love this comment, @Larwiz! Thank you for sharing!
Fantastic story...😍
Thanks Andrew (and Kristi). In addition, there is huge value in used AVRs for music listening. A $2000 original MSRP 10-15 year old AVR can be had for peanuts ($100-200 often, in excellent condition with remote) and can sound awesome with most speakers for 2-channel or 2.1 listening since they have great bass management also. Used Anthems, which could have been $2000 new, are $300-400 on the used market and are excellent. Their value drops like a rock because they don’t have the latest gaming or home theater specs.
Sorry but my Marantz surround processor pales in comparison to my Schiit freya+ plus 20 year old Herron Audio M150's.
Love this review, receivers are a great solution. What are the benefits, if any, of using a dedicated streamer such as the Wiim, as opposed to a Roku 4K, with a receiver like this one? Is it really worth the extra $$?
Me, sitting here with focal aria 948s and a budget AVR 👀
My old Technics amp just died and I was thinking about buying the WiiM amp. By chance I saw Yamaha AV on FB marketplace place and managed to get it for £140, total bargain! I’m currently using it in Stereo mode with a Kef sub, WiIM Pro and Topping Dac and I’m really happy with the sound.
That's awesome!
I like my Denon AVR. I would not limit the quality of speakers to use with it. I use it for a 2.1 system for video and music, and it is totally satisfying. The feature set and performance of AVRs is great for the money. Audyssey offers an EQ tool that let you pinpoint the frequencies who want to emphasize for best sound.
100%! Thanks for sharing!
Love your reviews and agree with you here. I'm a retiree on a budget. Hence I have a Yamaha RX-V4A ($229/3yr warranty) for my main and a Fosi Audio ($50) for garage streaming. 😊
which fosi audio amp do you have? [im not going to critisize as i started with one and it is good]
@@luluyouidiot BT20A
Great Sunday everyone.
Morning!
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you enjoy the show!
My 17 year old Arcam AVR300 ($2,000 new in 2007) still rivals entry level separates in terms of sonic performance, with a huge toroidal transformer (a real 100w x 7) and capacitor bank, Stereo Direct option, and a bi-amp function for channels 6&7 to use on the main speakers, giving 200wpc on tap. More than enough for 90% of speakers on the market.
I have nothing against AVRs in general. My main problem with them is that some of them cheap out where I wish they didn’t, like the quality of the power unit itself. It’s far from everyone, it’s far from every brand as well. I personally keep going back from a fairly expensive soundbar setup, to a full surround setup for the bedroom and haven’t decided yet really, but I’m starting to lean more and more towards the old school AVR with a few smaller sized speakers. And although many soundbar can very much achieve a full sound, I’m very sensitive to having a very specific type of sound and quality to it, which pushes me more towards full on surround setup. That being said, I’ll never “cheap out” by going with a small china made amplifier like Wiim. It can be an incredible piece of tech, but I live by a simple rule: the stingy always pays twice. I also have horrible luck with tech, period. So this review is perfect for me as I’m now way closer to an actual choice. I like Onkyo and always have. This might be my choice, unless I go with that Sony you mentioned. Either way, great review and video! Thank you guys and hope everyone has an awesome weekend, and a Happy Easter for those who celebrate!
I always love your thoughts on whatever we're discussing because you consider all sides and arguments and do so in such a complete way. I really value you and your opinions, and I hope people in our community here on the channel do too! Have a great rest of your day, and best to you and the family!
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsthank you for your kind words! 😇☺️
And same to you guys!
@@Moonplant432 that’s exactly my point. There are tons of awesome products that could be considered cheap or are much cheaper than competition. But most of the time, there’s a reason for it, absolutely.
I just returned my Wiim after about 20 minutes of listening. My speakers have a sensitivity of 86 and these just had enough to get the sound to just 70 db. It got me thinking that I would have issues with classical music. I also tried a Yamaha avr but my wife just did not want something that big on the console since it would not fit in any of the cubbies. I bought the SVS SoundBase and wow what a difference. I didn't even bother to AB any of the other amps. Just packed them up and returned them. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the Wiim. If I had a smaller build and a more sensitive speaker setup it's possible the Wiim could have sufficed. I would definitely consider getting it for my daughter when she moves out and wants a nice small set up. Thanks for your videos, I've learned a lot.
I listen to music using an AVR, we only have one space for music and movies so that was the easiest solution.
I’ve waited months for someone to review this. If you shop around you can easily find it for 349 down to 299.
I really don’t think you can find a better value for a new 5.2 receiver right now
I have a Marantz 1510 and happy with it for stereo and movies. Absolutely, an AVR can definitely work for both.
100% agree! Thanks for sharing!
I started over a year ago with a Marantz Cinema 50, and slowly integrated and phased it out to a McIntosh stereo system. There’s some functionality I definitely miss but much prefer the simpler layout, I have my TV connected to the preamp through earc, a turntable and a WiiM pro plus as a streamer. I loved the cinema 50 but the audiophile in me took over the setup.
Happy sunday. Cheers. Always down for an Onkyo review
So glad. Hope you enjoy the video!
Good to see you!
@@KristiWright always!
Appreciate your take here. Never heard the Wiim amp. Do have Wiim pro and a SMSL SU-1 Dac in my vintage systems. They play well together. Also have a Fosi BT20 blue tooth class d amp. Played so well on my vintage gear had to try it in my primary system. The Fosi pushed my $5000 Bryston A 1 very well. Rated 4 ohms and 88db efficient. Tbh was shocked how well. The Fosi will not replace my Hegel H190 but it was a fun experience. HiFi should be fun. All the best.
I would never buy an Onkyo receiver again. A few years ago they released the latest firmware update for my TX-NR616. I tried to install it as usual. It got stuck at 61%. Since then my receiver stopped working, I called them and told them about my experience. They just said, "We apologize, we know the firmware for your receiver was listed as the correct one, but it is not compatible with your receiver." So out of irresponsibility, I now have a ruined receiver because Onkyo didn't delete the firmware from their website. Never again Onkyo.
Inexcusable. I wonder if there is any consumer protection available to you. Much like “lemon laws” holding a manufacturer or seller responsible for a 100%, no questions asked refund. Different states have different laws in place.
That is All kinds of Fu:::up sorry to hear that bro.
This! So much this! Receivers are so criminally underrated. In just about every other walk of life, as the list of things something can do competently to even great grows, it becomes more and more in demand. Some audiophiles use this list as a checklist in reverse. Oh, you say it can do B, what a joke of a product then, no way am ai buying something that can do B, I just need A, don't want antlything else "distracting" it. It can't possibly be any good at A if it can also do B.
It is like someone who only speaks English who is buying interpreting service as he has a meeting with a German and French executive. They proudly tell him they have a great deal for him as he can get the services of one person that is a great interpreter for both languages for the session for only $1k. He then asks what do you have as far as separate interpreters that can't crossover between German and French? They say well we do have that available, but it will be $1,700 each, and you will lose a lot of abilities....... while she is still talking, the customer says I will take them!!!
I didn't want this getting too long, so I decided to break it up.
I keep seeing videos about these new hyped up 2 channel amps that are finally adding HDMI ARC. However, other than compact size, it is pretty hard to get excited when there are thousands of recent receivers with HDMI ARC that can be had used, shipped to my door for under $100 that will thoroughly destroy the Wiim Amp in stereo, and while the Wiim is still licking it's wounds the receiver will be kicking it on Avengers in 5.1.2!
Further upmarket, I haven't checked in the last couple of years, but literally no dedicated pre-amp could match, let alone beat the Denon x3600h on most measurements at Audio Science Review.
I am not going to say that all of these huge gains from integrated receivers or separates over receivers are placebo effect, but I will say that based on my personal testing, I don't see how it can be anything else in a lot of cases.
Me personally, I have plenty of dedicated amps, processors, and integrated amps around. However, nothing beats my Arcam AVR30 to my ears. I also find that I use receivers in most of my systems as I hear no penalty in quality and they just do everything I need, in a single box. What more can you ask for?
This is quite timely. I just purchased an older (2017, I think) Onkyo Tx-8270 on a whim. I tested it in place of my Audiolab 6000A Play with my Wharfedale Lintons, and much to my surprise, I love the sound even more than my Audiolab. I've A/B tested for about a week, and the Audiolab is getting sold. This was completely unexpected, but I'm more than happy with the older Onkyo.
My stereo is in my living room. So is my TV, Blu Ray, and my kids’ Nintendo Switch. AVRs do a fine job with stereo.
Something I wish you would do is something you touched on in the last unplugged: what is available today is an embarrassment of riches compared to twenty years ago. IDK if showing old components with prices adjusted for inflation and comparable performance with what you can get today, is feasible.
It often seems that many in our little niche want the world for $99.99.
Older higher end AVRs can be a bargain for two channel listening. As AVRs they are considered obsolete because they do not have the latest audio codecs, so no one wants them. For stereo listening none of that matters and many have really good amplifiers, dacs and, often, a half decent phono stage as well. Lots of them also have bi-amp capability so you can repurpose un-used amplifiers to bi-amp speakers if you are into that sort of thing.
Nice job Andrew, and Happy Easter! I think the Wiim Amp's strong suit is exactly what you mentioned - to be tied into an existing amplifier for streaming use, or particularly as a source for lower volume listening, like my upcoming deck project, etc. The convenience of it is unparalleled, and the Wiim's do an _amazing_ job syncing throughout a home.
Despite the haters, I like the look of the new Jamo bookshelf speakers (albeit not a big fan of the upward rake tbh)
That's awesome! I prefer them with the grilles on myself, but they're not as interesting to film all covered up. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
Used to listen for many years on denon x3500h, adding crown xls 2500 made a huge improvement, so I appreciate avr with preouts
Am I the only one that misses Christie's short but sweet comments directly after Andrew's take?
Tune in Fridays. Thanks for watching!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Oh I know and I have been watching those, but I still miss her short comments directly on the review.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I must admit it's harder for me to find time to watch the full episodes on Friday.
We appreciate you watching when you can.
They balance each other out really well. I'm moving toward watching the Friday video and only going back to the solo video if I want the full sales pitch.
Great video Andrew! Someone had to say it, electronically there is nothing that makes an AVR be worse then a 2 chan amplifier, it just depends on how each one of them is build.
For years I’ve been powering my Klipsch RF7-II’s with an old Onkyo TX-SR608 from 2010 and although the HDMIs are old versions the sound continues to be accurate, very strong and dynamic 👌
I dumped my Denon 5.1 AVR three years ago for the Cambridge CXA-81. Yes, I lost 5.1 for movies but for hi-fi playback, the sound from the CXA-81 smashes my old AVR to pieces. Not even close, night and day difference.
However, if I were to purchase a new AVR, and maybe I will one day, the Onkyo here would be on the shortlist. I just listen to music more now at my old age of 50+.
Nice choice in amp...I have CXA 80 and was very surprised at how snappy tight the bass response became. Clear and powerful.
You're AVR must have been crap then because my Denon x3800h has been a god send.. With my Wharfedale Standing speakers. And speakers on Stands and my SVS Subwoofer. Is absolutely stunning sound. Mind you i did get it professionally fitted for my room by a BANG & OLUFSEN.
@@ENGBriseB In fairness, it was an opening price point Denon with 5.1 so it is quite a mismatch versus the CXA-81. I've never heard the x3800h but it also would be on my shortlist. Big fan of Denon and Marantz. I'd also consider Onkyo (obviously) and Pioneer.
Well, you’ve made it clear how u feel about the wiiM. My only complaint about this setup is form factor. Receivers are just too big.
The form factor is due to the functionality. The Wiim has one hdmi and two speaker connections. For the same price or so you get more channels and more inputs. As well as this being able to handle multiple rooms
@@user-jm8ky1kn2t Yup , I get that. But form factor is a big deal to me. I'm not interested in all the extra. I need one digital, one analog and possibly one HDMI . Nothing more and not interested in multiroom. The new WiiM ultra will be more than enough.
Your idea of budget and my idea of budget are wildly different.
@@pdubowner Hello,i bought Magnat 2002 model tower speakers and surrounds in a 5.1 setup, i was thinking to buy this receiver , could you pls recommend me other budget receivers which could be better than this? personally i don't like cheap built of Onkyo..but this has many features etc and little new generation as well.. pls suggest me something different
I agree with the comment on using an AVR in stereo mode for music listening. Many people automatically assume that an AVR cannot sound good or cannot compete with an integrated amp in the same price range. I believe that most of those people have never really listened to music through an AVR before. I have a Sony mid-price AVR (from 5-6 years ago) that, to me, sounds much better than an NAD integrated amp at the same price - clearer, cleaner and more even across the frequency range.
I agree! Appreciate you sharing!
I think you said it in the first 10 seconds. For those who are always chasing dac/amps there should be a DAC of the month club like Trunk Club or Watch of the month club. 😅
Great video. I do still miss the immediacy of K’s responses and questions within the same video. I thought this part of your format was what really made a big difference. Also love your more general unplugged newsy chats. I also realise you can’t do everything as you put a lot of planning into everything you do.
For many years I used a Denon AVR-988 for both stereo music & HT and I never had any complaints. Granted, that was a higher end receiver at the time. Before that I had been using an old Newcastle R-725 (a Pro Logic unit) that was an absolute monster for 2-channel listening (it still is actually - friends are using it for that purpose). These days I have dedicated HT and stereo setups in my listening space. I don't HAVE to, but more toys = more fun, right? :)
I don't think anybody has mentioned it yet, but the Onkyo TX-NR6050 (not sold by Costco anymore, but available elsewhere) is a step above this for basically the same price. I bought mine last year for $349. It has a bit more power, more channels, Wi-Fi, and built-in streaming. Why get the 3100 if you can get the 6050?
I on a Onkyo A-9010 and it destroys amps up to 700$, even the Rotel A11 Tribute, was cleaner sounding but not as exiting as the onkyo. Onkyo is deeply undervalued and a hidden gem!
The A-9010 looks like a solid piece. I haven't heard it myself, but thanks for the tip!
In the past, a major drawback with most A/V receivers for stereo use is having to hook up a TV to access the menu and make adjustments.
As you went higher in a manufacturers line, you'd get fancier remotes. If the remote died, you pretty much had a door stop. That was then....
Now, the question of the day is, why do dedicated stereo receivers without all the bells and whistles cost the same as A/V receivers oozing the latest technology. All the tech, extra amplification, etc. can't be cheap.
Great review! AVR can definitely be used for Hifi. Now waiting for the next backyard progress pick. Looked like the retaining wall was finished and backfilled . Looking good 👍🏻
Did you see my IG story yesterday? More updates this week 😉
I use an Onkyo TX-RZ50 on a pair of Klipsch RP-8000FIIs, an SVS SB2000 Pro, a U-Turn Orbit Custom/Pluto 2 combo and couldn't be happier. 🤷🏼♂️
What additional features there is in Onkyo TX-RZ50 compared to Onkyo TXSR3100 and other budget AV receivers that made you spend the extra cash?
Yes do tell ??
Yes, you can use AVRs for 2-channel hi-fi listening. I use a Pioneer Elite SC-LX501 for both home theater and stereo music, both with great results. I also use and old Sony DA4ES as a stereo amp to power my desktop system, running HDMI from the computer into the TV that I use as a monitor and then optical from the TV to the receiver. This also sounds great.
Yes the sound of wiim amp is so amazing you here every thing especial when you set the eq wow
I have a wiim amp and love it . have two Kef bookshelf speakers . The wiim amp is much smaller allowing me to place it on my office desk . Overall I would still pick wiim.
In a desktop situation where you don't need to turn things up since you're listening in the near field, I'm not surprised that you are happy with your purchase.
I would go for Yamaha wxa50 ,,,small amplifier much better than wim i supose
@@jawadtaheri4989 have you heard them both ?? I use wiime all around the house for multi room whole house audio .
exactly, choose the Wiim Amp for the right application. I would not place it at the core of your main audio/video center.
Great video! I have an older flagship Onkyo tx sr-875 in use for stereo listening. It weighs around 50lbs and can drive nearly anything (magnepans not tested). As far as im conserned it has been absolutely fantastic for music and movies. Paid less than 200€ for it used and could not be happier.
So to awnser your question at the end, Yes Avr:s can absolutely be used for hifi listening.
I was quite surprised that the Onkyo didn't offer wifi streaming or wired as well. I think the Wiim products are "cool" and gadgety. I don't have a high end system. My main receiver is a Yamaha A2080. I bought a Wiim Pro Plus streamer to see how it compared with streaming straight through the Yamaha (Sabre DAC). I still felt the Yamaha sounded a bit better.
Very nice video. I just saw your other friends video on the Wiim. I feel more comfortable with a traditional amplifier. Thank you guys. Happy EASTER 🐰🐣
Other "friend?"
If hifi shops still existed (and people had the chance to compare products in person), listeners would never choose a Wiim amp as their favorite.
With no hifi shops, hype is what pushes the bottom line into profitability.
Hype drove folks to dealers back in the day too. But in my opinion, there's hype and then there's lying. The manufacturers (and others) are outright lying or purposely misleading would-be customers about the performance of some of these cheap amps.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I’ve always been surprised at youtube hypers who don’t see the conflict in accepting Wiim marketing money while continuing to mention said product in a positive light.
That is why I rarely watch any other channel beyond this one.
I think one of the best values in two channel stereo is a used, near top of the line AVR from around 2015 give or take a few years. You can pick up a pioneer elite or a Denon are Sony from that era used add a great price.
I've got a couple chip amps that I really like for the money, but realistically they just can't hang with my pioneer elite from 2015.
I really liked the perspective. My main system is centred on a Pioneer 7.2 receiver I bought new in 2019 for just over 300€. This one, apart from what this Onkyo offers, also had an option for the European version of Digital radio (DAB+) via a USB dongle, as well as network support (both wired and wireless), with built-in clients for Internet Radio and Tidal. It also supports Chromecast, with Tidal Connect. And last, but not least, it can decode SACD via HDMI from SACD players. So, even though this was never top of the line, I still find it hard to beat in terms of features, particularly if I consider the price point and what you can get for it, even now, when we're spoilt for options.
I started with stereo speakers connected to a NAD D3020. Then I replaced the NAD with a Marantz Receiver (slim line - nothing fancy). I believe the DSP alone was sufficient to enhance the sound of the same speakers on the Marantz. Considering all the functionality, I have no doubt that a receiver can outperform an integrated amp, at least at the entry level.
I have a NAD D3020, compared to your new amp without the DSP (if you tested it), did you find any significant difference? I compared it to my other amp (a Denon) and found it really hard to perceive any difference. I also compared it to one of those cheap class D Chinese amps and there was some difference, but a very small one, certainly not 10x difference (as the price). I'm starting to think that amps are quite easy to build nowadays, after all an amp just has to amplify the sound with the minimum coloration possible, and this does not require super expensive equipment (while speakers are another story).
@@TommasoPaba As far as I can remember, I think the Marantz without DSP was worse than the NAD. Nothing crazy, but the treble was harsh on the Marantz. I also compared the NAD with some cheap Topping and there was almost no difference. Lastly, I also tried the same speakers with an entry-level Cambridge Audio, and it was the worst of all - the sound was muddy. So, I think the amp can make a difference, but not always
Use an older version of this unit for my main TV room 2-channel listening (driving classic Pioneer HPM-100 200-watt version speakers!), with Sony X950H smart-TV apps providing the music streaming (w/ large cover art) and not only is the largely neutral presentation a perfect foil for warm 70s era speakers, it actually upscales cable better than the Sony. Finally, the built-in room correction (w/ tiny little mic) worked perfectly despite partial blockage with a couch of the right channel. Got it for less than $300 years ago, and laugh at any snobbery. Onkyo punches above it's weight, as long as you understand the 'weight' isn't 4 tons. Thanks Andrew!
Appreciate you sharing and thanks for watching!
I would love if you could assign the channels as 4.2.1, meaning re-assigning the center channel as a mono height. Sure it won't give you much in the way of stereo height movement, but if you're a single listener? I can see it being a great budget option for "Atmos". Sadly that's not something Atmos supports
That's a great idea! Unfortunately I haven't seen any receiver with that option.
If you buy two subs, you can afford another atmos speaker.
Andrew...I came to the conclusion I am an easily influenced human....more than once I have spent small amounts on "the hype"...little class D amps with outrageous power claims etc. I have come running back to class a/b with my head on fire after being set ablaze by some of the best "suck you in" marketing I've seen....dacs and amps sell like hotcakes and sound like them too
I would say that the simplicity of a bare-minimum Class D amplifier implementation is the only reason we're seeing these misleading products in Class D and not Class A or AB.
Class D clearly has a place in high-end audio, and is being used effectively by NAD, basically every soundbar, basically every powered subwoofer, and most powered speakers.
To me, this isn't much different than the deluge of Chromebooks that used a cheap Mediatek chip that was originally made for set-top boxes (think Comcast cable box). The difference is, people notice when a computer is slow because they have a good point of reference, but many listeners don't have a point of reference relative to their WiiM amp.
hey Luke...my comment has more to do with how we process marketing....I know the class distinctions between A, A/B, D, & T because I worked for Nakamichi (1987) when they were producing "Stasis" amps with design from Nelson Pass in the 80's my comment is connected with marketing, not sound quality...@@lukemcdo
Been a huge fan of Onkyo for ages as a bang for the buck rx. While I use a Q990C for home theater, my old TX-SR605 with a WiiM Pro and a pair of old Infinity RS5s handle the music in more than an acceptable way. They aren't my Line Drive/Citations/B&W 801 S2s, but they don't cost more than my current car either.
It sounds like you have covered all your bases! I appreciate you sharing your experience with Onkyo.
I bought the RXV6A a couple years ago and really like it, especially MusicCast to my surprise. Still I sometimes think about looking for a used Denon like the one this Yamaha replaced when it died. I find I miss the preamp outs and 7 channel input more than I like atmos and HDMI. I realize this makes me sort of a dinosaur.
I agree with you about pre-outs. Pre-outs are still a prerequisite on a receiver for me. It's just ridiculous how much they expect you to pay to get them on new AVRs these days, which is one reason why I stick with used, and I don't use my receivers for video so I don't care about HDMI inputs.
I'm missing Ms KR's input. I like her approach and it seriously adds to a product. BTW from your review, Onkyo has done this previously with the A9010 stereo integrated. A storming budget amp for about £200 if memory serves me correctly.
That's sweet of you to say. You can watch our discussions every Friday here bit.ly/43NnDkT.
I have an Onkyo3100 and I hook up mando speakers I love it
Great review 👍 While the WiiM AMP is a great product it is always good to have other options! The Onkyo seems like a reliable product that will serve the user well for many years.
I use my Arcam AVR10 that I got used for $700 with tidal connect for my music and it sounds fantastic. I put it in direct mode and connected to my higher end DAC from my office setup and honestly it was a very minimal difference, and my wife actually liked the Arcam sound better.
I’m good with my AVR for music, i don’t care to find out the difference by adding a streamer that costs more money than the AVR.
I’m using a Yamaha RX-V481 I bought in 2016. In surround sound terms it works well for movies and TV, but the “courtesy DAC” is definitely showing its age and struggles a bit musically.
Recently purchased a Yamaha RX-A2A for $475 brand new from Adorama to use as a 2 channel preamp. Have not purchased a separate amp yet but am very happy using the internal amp for 2 channel music. Not to mention it handles DSD via HDMI and a ridiculous amount of other features.
I’m a big fan of the features for money and the sound quality of the Onkyo’s, just not the durability. I’ve had two over the past 15 years and both failed, specifically the HDMI circuits. I wish I could say my Denon was more reliable, but my AVR X4400H had to go in under warranty for an HDMI board replacement. Thankfully it failed under warranty. If I had to do it again it would probably be Yamaha or Sony, simply from a build quality perspective.
It's crazy, people are getting rid of AVRs for little DAC/Amps or sound bars. That means you can find good AVRs in thrift stores for almost nothing.
I bought an Onkyo TX-NR608 new years ago to get HDMI inputs instead of the RCA spaghetti behind my old 5.1 separates. I feel that was a good value and it's still going strong but I recently found a used TX-NR616 for $24.99 and a TX-NR609 for $14.99 (with a dented faceplate). They are both old but both are still going strong and at that price adding an external DAC or streamer still leaves you with a crazy affordably system that can do stereo or surround very well.
Another thing I lucked in to was a pair of Klipsch KG4 speakers in pretty good condition for $30 so that with my $14.99 TX-NR609 is going to be my ultimate $45 garage stereo.
That's right, people are evidently getting rid of pretty nice (but large) speakers too.
The important thing to realize is that almost every decent AVR has quite good amplifiers and the specs haven't improved much since the 1980s. Speakers on the other hand introduce lots of distortion so it's better to have good speakers and an ok amp than ok speakers and a good amp.
As for good speakers, beyond how they sound, you want a smooth impedance curve that stays above 4 ohms or maybe higher if you have a good amp that just doesn't like low impedance loads.
All three of my Onkyos can probably drive speakers that dip in to the 3 ohm level because their amps are pretty beefy but that might limit the volume before they clip. I don't have them in rooms large enough to cause a volume issue. My living room/home theatre is about 500 ft². My garage is bigger but it doesn't need the dynamics of a home theatre, just good tunes while I'm working.
I should upgrade my home theatre speakers because they are just some Polk speakers I got on clearance around the same time I got the TX-NR608 and a cheap 12" powered sub but these days my audio upgrades are the under $30 thrift store variety because I changed careers to improve my work/life balance and I'm quite a bit happier with keeping my old stereo than having a budget to get audiophile stuff but hating my life.
No wifi and no phono pre???? That is crazy! Room Correction makes sense on AV but again lack of wifi for firmware updates is ancient!
I don't need phono, I live in 2024. And for Streaming I have another device.
@@LeRoi81
Absolutely the truth
still using a pioneer vsx-1211k from 2011 (yikes 13 years!!!) as a preamp for music and pre/pro for home theater with some big boy Emotiva amps for power..my minimum criteria for a receiver is pre-outs for upgrading. Cheers!!!!
Yep - my old Elite VSX-52 from same period is also still going strong and sounds great. No plans to change here either : )
It’s a great comparison. Focusing on amplification and flexibility. The lack of update simplicity and streaming is not am issue. Thanks for doing that vid
Great info Andrew! Thanks for this. As a WiiM owner Pro and Plus, I agree that the WiiM amp is not a good solution over an good AVR.
Thanks for watching!
I love seeing out of the box, I love my Onkyo’s
This review and this product suddenly opens up possibilities for us. Thank you once again Andrew and Kristy!
Looking to replace my 25 year old Technics SA-DX950 AV receiver. We are saving for an onkyo tx-rz 50 (as per your recomedations It would be able to drive most speakers / best bang for euro) make our record player, games console, cable mediaplayer and TV sound better. We have a small to medium room and a large bookcase.
The 3100 now gives us the possibility to upgrade sooner and already add Klipsch rp-1000sw sub. The warfdale Denton 3's will hold up a little bit longer for replacement by either evo 4.1 or focal chora 806 (yes, still available in The Neterlands). Would love your advice on either of those speakers as we listen to mostly jazz and singer-songwriters and movies with mostly dialogue
I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either speaker. Both are very good! Stylistically, the Evo's may have more longevity than the Choras. If you haven't yet, watch our reviews of the speakers to help you in your decision.
Evo 4.1 th-cam.com/video/jHT55r-O-uc/w-d-xo.html
Chora 806 th-cam.com/video/aTS4_FgYBG8/w-d-xo.html
With the pace of change in Wi-Fi, streaming and Bluetooth protocols I would prefer that a streamer is not built in. That way I can keep the amp or reciever for a longer period of time, and just update the streamer. Same as I wouldn't have pruchased a system with a CD built in. As it is I can swap from CD to DVD to Blueray to 4K players without replacing the reciever. That's what components were designed for. Same reason I do not like smart TV's. I would rather plug in the latest video streamer.
yeah pretty much that. thats the huge issue with all in one solutions, when they get released they are real good value... but audio is not a sprint. what i want to know, are they good value a year down the line still and the answer is most likely: no. its weird that you bring that comparison because its quite accurate. NOONE in the hifi world would buy an amp with an integrated cd player. if a year down the line streaming changes or theres a new cool room correction coming out...i literally have to replace everything.
i use an old kenwood amp and i love this guy. plently power, sounds really nice, easy to repair and it barely even gets handwarm to the touch. its a good solid workhouse, it simply works.
and all i have to worry about or deal with are things like streamers or dacs... well actually mostly streamers because dacs came to a point they are so ridiculously precise and clean, you cant barely even measure any distortions or whatnot. well yeah streamer then... i can basically just every once in a while or so buy the newest wiim pro or whatever, resell my old one and keep my system up to date without any need to change my amp at all.
in fact even: and i am just an above average audio enjoyer, i think the only way i had to get a new amp is if it breaks on me beyond repair.
of course you can - Running the TX-DS575 Onko AND LOVE IT
Thanks! I have no problem using an A/V for my listening as I prefer a balanced life. I gave up high end stereo when I had children as room for a theater was where my stereo in my great room was. The KEF's went on to a new owner and I haven't looked back. Most important my wife loves the set up!
You may have told me this already, but what do you currently enjoy in terms of equipment?
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Last night I enjoyed the separates which is a McIntosh MX122 with two Mc201's, Golden Ear reference, Golden Ear 1000's, Golden Ear center, Super bass sub, and 4 height ceiling Golden Ear speakers. 57K at the time of purchase. lol My other is a Marantz 8015....ect.
I'm in a 20m2 room and sit 1.8m from the speakers. Anythhing beyond 73db is too loud. How does anyone listen to anything in the 80 - 105db range
Low distorting speakers makes you listen way louder without strain. It could be that your speakers start distorting and compressing. Or that your amplifier is too weak.
Here I am sitting with a fiio and a dayton audio amp on my computer. That has a cost of around $400. Still quite a good dac, and yet an argument for maybe using a avr. Also the dac works as a good headphone amp. l think the dac and power is much better than the avr around this cost; Although I don't have the flexibility of an avr. Interesting point.
Loving the videos guys.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with listening to stereo music with your AV Receiver. 👍
Just one thing that never gets discussed, I’ve had two Onkyo AV Receivers in the past, and I’ve found them, build quality wise a bit fragile. Plus they sounded awful in Direct mode.
How do you guys think Onkyo Receivers under a £1000.00 stack up against the Maranz Cinema 70 or 60?
The Marantz products cost twice what this Onkyo commands and have more by way of features, so I would consider them a worthy upgrade and a good "investment" without going crazy. They're the better products, for sure.
06:03 YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR
You have mentioned in the past how much you like Arylic. How about you build full system around two fosi ZA3 as monoblocks and an Arylic BP50 preamp. Total cost for those three components should be around $400, $50 more than that Onkyo. You might be surprised.
Can you use a avr for 2 channels? Yes. I am using an anthem 1140 in a 7.2.4 configuration with focal 936 k2 speakers. The anthem allows you to do different room corrections including 2channel Perfect!
Onkyo TX-8260 2 Channel Network Stereo Receiver,black is a great stereo receiver that offers the internet connectivity and phono inputs
i have the similarly speccd Denon thats for sale from Costco - it is slightly more expensive and has wireless and streaming support. There's great value to be had in the 500 bucks price range. i was always tempted to drop a 1000 on an avr but its really diminishing returns after 500 for me as im not an audiophile.
What a weird comparison of product with the wiim amp. Fine review of the onkyo but completely different use cases.
You buy the wiim amp because of the streamer that also has an amp/dac built inside. The fact that you don't have built in streaming plus already making it slightly more expensive you're nearly double the price already. Yes the wiim amp doesn't have hdmi 2.2, fine. Its not really made for home theater. the better comparison would be a used receiver that also doesn't have 2.2 at a fraction of the price. Still, that wouldn't even talk about aesthetics which typically are big on your channel.
I bought a wiim amp because its small, aesthetically pleasing and easily places 2.0/2.1 with minimal effort and minimalist look. You don't have to plug anything else into it and it looks great on table top. If i want i can add a record player. Eventually, i might add a frame tv to my common/living room mounted on my wall above my sound system with hidden wires. Now picture that set up with a big black box onkyo avr. Id have to buy a specific piece of furniture to hide the thing that wont overheat or have it sitting out. Night and day different product.
I'm glad you're enjoying your WiiM, that's all I want for anyone. I just find the WiiM to be overhyped (not to mention misleading with respect to its specs). In this case, a lot of would be WiiM customers, specifically those looking for a solution for their living rooms etc., would be doing themselves a disservice by ignoring AVRs like the Onkyo. That's all. I will concur that the WiiM is the "sexier" looking package, but it doesn't deliver on all that it promises as it relates to power and sound quality, which we (and others) have demonstrated. To me that's reason enough NOT to give a company my business, for if they're okay with lying to customers, that's not a business I want to reward with my money.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews thanks for the reply. I think some of what you're saying is valid about performance and the wiim amp is not an end all be all product. I am saying it seems like 2 or 3 separate conversations.
1) this Onkyo is a good product, here's why, heres a review. Consider buying it over a class d chifi amp
2) this streamer amp combo is overrated and over hyped. Its specs dont deliver. Still, its a streamer first so recommending a non streamer doesn't make sense
3) don't want to give recommendations on products/companies that aren't honest on specs/delivery. Then you recommended wiim product as a pairing is pretty counter to your argument. I understand the wiim pro/plus/ standard is a different product but stll same org. Also, plenty of avr companies seem to lie about watts/specs.
With all of that said, i do enjoy your content and thank you for putting it out there. This just seems like a pretty odd head to head and to me. it seems like a shoehorned gripe with the wiim amp pushed into this Onkyo review
WiiM Amp is not a Hi-Fi product. But a WiiM streamer with a budget friendly AV receiver like the mentioned Onkyo is the way to go. I like more aesthetics of the WiiM Amp, and its dimensions too, but do we want to live in the future with audio products who almost destroying Hi-Fi values? WiiM must be accepted as a borderline supplement to the Hi-Fi world and not like one of the leading forces for future innovations for good sound. On the positive side WiiM and SONOS are the fancy way to better sound with those, shall we say, lifestyle products. I personally could buy a WiiM amp and after two years of decision making I am coming to purchase Onkyo for sure. Those are not needed steps for audiophile hobby.
@@MotoMatini Is streaming not hi-fi because it's not analog? Seems like think so when you use the words borderline supplement.
Perhaps a wiim amp isnt "hifi." So what? Its a cheap, minimalist product as outlined above that can play pretty decent quality sound for a variety of speakers with strong spousal approval factor. Not every rig in your house needs to be your definition of "hi-fi." It'll still sounds better than most common peoples' set-ups.
you could also do just that (2 years and upgrade the amp/dac) and use the wiim amp simply just as streamer like the wiim pro plus and wouldn't have spent much more.
Again, my point is that these are 2 very different products for very different use cases. IDGAF about 5 channels or dolby services that the onkyo provides for my use case, i do want streaming though which it doesn't.
Its like arguing my truck doesn't hold as many people as your mini-van. Sure, but it hauls things, thats why i got it. Yeah, i guess you can attach a trailer to your minivan but they're very still different and for different uses.
Lastly, this "it isn't hifi" thing seems very gatekeepy.
OK, here in Norway is 02:39 on my clock, but I shall respond. Yes, one product is a truck and another is a minivan in the car world. Many people buy what they want to have and not necessarily what they really need. But regardless of the product, if the producent of a truck or minivan shows 200 HP strong engines, then I want to pay for 200 HP. But if I find that truck essentially has 180 HP I buy a minivan. Hi-Fi world is even more rigid on produsent data and there laying my borderline mark. You are right, the WiiM Amp is OK and people want simplicity and style. Like every other new product, WiiM and SONOS need time to implement refinement in solutions and sound stages. I am more for traditional Hi-Fi and the lack of better designs among "ordinary" AV receivers is not good for the Hi-Fi world. But many new products are very good and consumers have a variety of choices like never before. Nice!
Another great video. I've been using an Audio Lab 8000A stereo amp connected to a Yamaha DSP-E800 (5.1 DD/DTS) for the last near 30 years. But recently I have been mulling over changing them to a new Marantz Cinema 50 (still to be used as 5.1). But I am not sure if it would sound as good in stereo, or would be much of an upgrade for films.... I have always dismissed AVRs for music, but Andy's videos of new gear has given me doubt! 🙂