Guys! You can also convert an old 27” bike to 700c if you’re breaks allow it. I did it on my univega nuovo sport and currently have 38m tires on with about 3mm of clearance in the rear with plenty more in the front
Seven years ago I went ahead and did a 650B conversion on my old Trek 420 road bike. I built the wheels and it is set up with 38mm wide Gravel Kings slicks. It gave new life to that old frame and I still ride it right now. I also built the front wheel with a Shutter Precision dyno hub and this bike just simply, "Rocks!" The softer feel on the road melts the miles away and I love going off road with it too. Your explanation of the feel of the brakes is correct, it did not take long to get used to it and I kept the crank length the same, 170mm. I just simply don't spin on turns. I do a lot of night riding on this bike and since the frame has room, it is also set up with fenders, I ride in the rain a lot. I also ride with other riders who have done the same with their old road bikes and love it. Good luck with your new ride.
that sounds like a sweet setup you've got. i may attempt to go a size up but i suspect 38 is a bridge too far for these stays. i was practicing cornering with the crank down in the 6 o'clock position but didn't experience problems. not sure how overblown the threat is but def worth mentioning.
I also converted a couple older 27” center pull brake bikes. I was able to fit 38mm on the one with good margins, could probably fit 40. I used the same Tektro brakes on both.
Just a little note the smaller wheels change the geometry a bit (trail and wheelbase) but it does not change fit. BB to seat and top tube don't change. Love your conversion BTW. Swapping the fork for one with a bit more clearance is a possibility too.
yes, i've noticed quite a range of fit capability in old 700c road forks. this particular bike was definitely tighter at the stays than the fork crown though. the wheelbase can't be changed, it's determined by the frame but i agree the geometry could change. in my case it did a little bit because i couldn't maintain the same outer tire circumference but if you do (like the MTB style of conversions usually do) then i can't image how your geometry could change. it's longer spokes, shorter side walls vs shorter spokes and longer sidewalls. the radius from the fork end to the ground is the same, etc.
So far I only saw the upsizing of MTBs from 26" to 650b (and I did one myself), but I never saw or considered downsizing 700c to 650b - interesting! There are a lot of excellent steel frames with exactly the constraints as you state, fitting only 25mm tyres. On my old steel racer I just dented the inside of the chain stays to accommodate 28mm tyres and that already makes a huge difference, but your approach seems the better one. Pedal clearance - just go with clipless pedals which will give you back the clearance.
yeah, clipless would be a good choice. agreed, there are so many great frames that wouldn't be fun to ride in original format (25 tires) but can be converted to something much more useful and much more fun with 650s.
Helpful vid. Thank you!. I'm considering a 650b conversion. A few years ago, I made an error in chasing after a great steel rig (Ritchey Road Logic disc) w/o considering max tire clearance. Coming from mtb, I absolutely prefer the comfort & stability of a wider tire but the RL only accepts 30mm. Intent on at least 35 or > as I can on my other road bike. I had considered selling my RL and buying an outback or surly, even briefly putting it up for sale on fb marketplace. Then decided that maybe I can do a conversion. Haven't started yet but I think I'm going to go for it. Worst case scenario is that I have to convert back and either sell it or be happy with 30s :)
happy to help. it's always sad not to be able to use a great frame because it wasn't designed with better clearance. hope you do the conversion and get it on the road.
Folks at Bluelug did this with the Surly Steamroller and diacompe brs202 calipers. Super cool. Your 650b litespeed is even better. I humbly suggest to look at MKS seahorse for tiny pedal that still felt good (for me)
thanks and it is. nothing i'm not used to though, i have a 700c road bike with 28m tires that have maybe 2mm of clearance in several places. not ideal but gets me around.
Doing this with an older road race bike when they rode 19/21mm tubulars will help with the issue of smaller overall wheel size post conversion. Disc brakes allowing wider tires is more of a marketing phrase than anything. Your long reach calipers speak to that, as well as centerpull, v brakes, canti, u brakes. Very nice job! I am hemming and hawing over doing the same.
thanks, i really wanted to see how much this would improve the bike and it did wonders. it's true the discs alone don't facilitate fatter tires but the demand for clearance and the rise of disc brakes are coming at the same time. i personally don't like them and prefer v-brakes but it's nice to know an off the shelf roadie now will often fit like a 35 tire where before a 28 was not always guaranteed to fit.
I dig it. My partners bike is an 80s roadie with 28mm clearance. Definitely tempted to build up a 650b wheelset for increased confort, but doubt its justifiable since its not ridden too much.
it will work on dry season but on rainy season, where everywhere is wet and muddy terrain, all the dirt and mud plus debris stuck in them will definitely rub on those chainstays. It's not really fun to keep stopping and clearing your rear tire in this condition. I've done such build before and I just ended up buying a CycloCross bike frame with good tire clearance.
you're right about that. if i was riding somewhere muddy i'd definitely prefer a cyclocross bike or basically any bike with thicker tires by design and brake clearance. that said, this bike would be pretty much impossible to ride in mud in the old arrangement so i haven't made it any less capable than before. probably not an everything bike but it excels on pavement and light trails.
Great and easy to do on a first generation disc cx bike they already have high bottom brackets and not great clearance of a gravel bike. Have done it on a vintage road bike with really tight clearance but was swapped back soon it killed the fun of that bike. That bike is much more fun with tubs and beautiful day rides occasionally. Fun to play with certainly but not a keeper
i agree, cx bikes can make a great canvas. i especially like the old rim brake versions, they are cheap and light with enough clearance for pretty much any tire i would want. i do have a couple old road bikes i just can't seem to part with so this project is about figuring out a way to get as much out of them as possible.
I have converted 2 26ers to 700 c,it works very well in that you gain bb height Best to swap out the front fork though I can run 40mm gravel kings with this set up
neat but what do you have against 26ers? i know there's eventually an unpleasant tradeoff like 20" wheels don't really compare to larger ones but i find smaller wheels are lighter, stronger and usually support fatter tires. all wins in my book.
@@biking-places No ,but use flats and shorter cranks than came with those older mbs,also,not really technical terrain where I ride- basically gravel tracks
Hi! Been wanting to do this with a 90s Ti frame myself. The Look fork can jam with small stones easily even with a 25, and the stays have little clearance also. The older Contis 3000/4000 had high tpi and were supple. Veloflex is the best as well,feel more like tubs.
despite the tradeoffs i recommend it. i've ridden some of the conti 4000s and they are nice but i still feel like i'm bouncing around uneven streets at the low volume of air and high pressure required.
yeah, i agree. i was trying it out a bunch of ways to see how close it was and didn't ever graze the ground. the only time pedal strikes are an issue for me is uneven rocky ground where i sometimes kick a rock that's sticking out. i try to keep my feet level on that type of terrain.
I'm right now about to do a similar build with my old steel frame an stumbled over this video a little too late (got all my parts ready). I never considered crank clearance in my planning. Right now I'm about to go from 700cx23c to 650bx35c. Theoretical clearing difference should be about -8mm not considering tire pressure. Hopefully it turns out alright in the end :) Are you still riding this build? Would you do it again?
Good luck, I don't think a few mm will be enough of an issue but if you have clearance try to go up a size. It definitely improved this bike tremendously.
i really want to believe that but i've never found a supple feeling 28 tire. even tubeless with lower pressure i just don't feel like there's enough air in there to feel comfortable. i'll keep trying though and if you have a tire you recommend i'm all ears.
@@biking-places Just in my opinion. I've done a lot of this sort of thing and never worried about bb height or fork angles, etc and it's always worked out fine. My concern is that by complicating the process folks new to this sort of thing will be too afraid to start. BUT you're not wrong to do it the way you do and I admire what you do.
i see what you're saying but also feel folks new to this sort of thing can find this info useful. i think around the time i mentioned that i had to build my own wheelset people will realize this is not an entry level project but my video, and sheldon brown's article, along with all the other literature on the subject are good things for people to consider as they learn what sort bike suits them.
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Guys! You can also convert an old 27” bike to 700c if you’re breaks allow it. I did it on my univega nuovo sport and currently have 38m tires on with about 3mm of clearance in the rear with plenty more in the front
yes, i've done a few of these and it's much less painful than this 700 to 650 conversion.
Seven years ago I went ahead and did a 650B conversion on my old Trek 420 road bike. I built the wheels and it is set up with 38mm wide Gravel Kings slicks. It gave new life to that old frame and I still ride it right now. I also built the front wheel with a Shutter Precision dyno hub and this bike just simply, "Rocks!" The softer feel on the road melts the miles away and I love going off road with it too. Your explanation of the feel of the brakes is correct, it did not take long to get used to it and I kept the crank length the same, 170mm. I just simply don't spin on turns. I do a lot of night riding on this bike and since the frame has room, it is also set up with fenders, I ride in the rain a lot. I also ride with other riders who have done the same with their old road bikes and love it. Good luck with your new ride.
that sounds like a sweet setup you've got. i may attempt to go a size up but i suspect 38 is a bridge too far for these stays. i was practicing cornering with the crank down in the 6 o'clock position but didn't experience problems. not sure how overblown the threat is but def worth mentioning.
Saw your post on r/xbiking and figured there would be a great accompanying video :)
hope you weren't disappointed ;)
Nice. I made a gravel bike from old 70's Peugeot frame. It can fit 700c x 45mm tires with Tektro R559 calipers.
sweet, i bet it's a lot more fun to ride with the thicker tires.
I also converted a couple older 27” center pull brake bikes. I was able to fit 38mm on the one with good margins, could probably fit 40. I used the same Tektro brakes on both.
Just a little note the smaller wheels change the geometry a bit (trail and wheelbase) but it does not change fit. BB to seat and top tube don't change. Love your conversion BTW. Swapping the fork for one with a bit more clearance is a possibility too.
yes, i've noticed quite a range of fit capability in old 700c road forks. this particular bike was definitely tighter at the stays than the fork crown though. the wheelbase can't be changed, it's determined by the frame but i agree the geometry could change. in my case it did a little bit because i couldn't maintain the same outer tire circumference but if you do (like the MTB style of conversions usually do) then i can't image how your geometry could change. it's longer spokes, shorter side walls vs shorter spokes and longer sidewalls. the radius from the fork end to the ground is the same, etc.
So far I only saw the upsizing of MTBs from 26" to 650b (and I did one myself), but I never saw or considered downsizing 700c to 650b - interesting!
There are a lot of excellent steel frames with exactly the constraints as you state, fitting only 25mm tyres. On my old steel racer I just dented the inside of the chain stays to accommodate 28mm tyres and that already makes a huge difference, but your approach seems the better one.
Pedal clearance - just go with clipless pedals which will give you back the clearance.
yeah, clipless would be a good choice. agreed, there are so many great frames that wouldn't be fun to ride in original format (25 tires) but can be converted to something much more useful and much more fun with 650s.
Helpful vid. Thank you!. I'm considering a 650b conversion. A few years ago, I made an error in chasing after a great steel rig (Ritchey Road Logic disc) w/o considering max tire clearance. Coming from mtb, I absolutely prefer the comfort & stability of a wider tire but the RL only accepts 30mm. Intent on at least 35 or > as I can on my other road bike. I had considered selling my RL and buying an outback or surly, even briefly putting it up for sale on fb marketplace. Then decided that maybe I can do a conversion. Haven't started yet but I think I'm going to go for it. Worst case scenario is that I have to convert back and either sell it or be happy with 30s :)
happy to help. it's always sad not to be able to use a great frame because it wasn't designed with better clearance. hope you do the conversion and get it on the road.
Folks at Bluelug did this with the Surly Steamroller and diacompe brs202 calipers. Super cool. Your 650b litespeed is even better. I humbly suggest to look at MKS seahorse for tiny pedal that still felt good (for me)
thanks, appreciate it. these MKSs seem like a great option, they are short where it counts. thanks for the tip.
Beautiful build.
Thank you!
Thank you for your effort
you're welcome, thanks for watching
Top effort.
Clearance looks tight by rear chain stay
thanks and it is. nothing i'm not used to though, i have a 700c road bike with 28m tires that have maybe 2mm of clearance in several places. not ideal but gets me around.
Doing this with an older road race bike when they rode 19/21mm tubulars will help with the issue of smaller overall wheel size post conversion.
Disc brakes allowing wider tires is more of a marketing phrase than anything. Your long reach calipers speak to that, as well as centerpull, v brakes, canti, u brakes.
Very nice job! I am hemming and hawing over doing the same.
thanks, i really wanted to see how much this would improve the bike and it did wonders. it's true the discs alone don't facilitate fatter tires but the demand for clearance and the rise of disc brakes are coming at the same time. i personally don't like them and prefer v-brakes but it's nice to know an off the shelf roadie now will often fit like a 35 tire where before a 28 was not always guaranteed to fit.
So freaking cool!
thanks, i also tried it out the traditional way with the 700 x 25s and it was much less fun
That's really helpful for my road bike frame build. I need rims so I might as well go 650b , Cheers 👍
as others point out 650b wheelsets aren't exactly common but there are a few out there and you can always build them.
I dig it. My partners bike is an 80s roadie with 28mm clearance. Definitely tempted to build up a 650b wheelset for increased confort, but doubt its justifiable since its not ridden too much.
it's worth it just to try it out. you can always use the wheelset elsewhere.
it will work on dry season but on rainy season, where everywhere is wet and muddy terrain, all the dirt and mud plus debris stuck in them will definitely rub on those chainstays. It's not really fun to keep stopping and clearing your rear tire in this condition. I've done such build before and I just ended up buying a CycloCross bike frame with good tire clearance.
you're right about that. if i was riding somewhere muddy i'd definitely prefer a cyclocross bike or basically any bike with thicker tires by design and brake clearance. that said, this bike would be pretty much impossible to ride in mud in the old arrangement so i haven't made it any less capable than before. probably not an everything bike but it excels on pavement and light trails.
Great and easy to do on a first generation disc cx bike they already have high bottom brackets and not great clearance of a gravel bike. Have done it on a vintage road bike with really tight clearance but was swapped back soon it killed the fun of that bike. That bike is much more fun with tubs and beautiful day rides occasionally. Fun to play with certainly but not a keeper
i agree, cx bikes can make a great canvas. i especially like the old rim brake versions, they are cheap and light with enough clearance for pretty much any tire i would want. i do have a couple old road bikes i just can't seem to part with so this project is about figuring out a way to get as much out of them as possible.
I have converted 2 26ers to 700 c,it works very well in that you gain bb height
Best to swap out the front fork though
I can run 40mm gravel kings with this set up
neat but what do you have against 26ers? i know there's eventually an unpleasant tradeoff like 20" wheels don't really compare to larger ones but i find smaller wheels are lighter, stronger and usually support fatter tires. all wins in my book.
@@biking-places nothing against them, just have too many sets of 700 wheels!
@@Michael-s5i5j that's fair, i appreciate resourcefulness. do you ever run into toe overlap issues though?
@@biking-places
No ,but use flats and shorter cranks than came with those older mbs,also,not really technical terrain where I ride- basically gravel tracks
Hi! Been wanting to do this with a 90s Ti frame myself. The Look fork can jam with small stones easily even with a 25, and the stays have little clearance also. The older Contis 3000/4000 had high tpi and were supple. Veloflex is the best as well,feel more like tubs.
despite the tradeoffs i recommend it. i've ridden some of the conti 4000s and they are nice but i still feel like i'm bouncing around uneven streets at the low volume of air and high pressure required.
Well done video!
thanks, glad it was helpful
Hey !
When cornering, just keep the inside pedal up .
Pedalling through corners is always a recipé for a wipeout.
yeah, i agree. i was trying it out a bunch of ways to see how close it was and didn't ever graze the ground. the only time pedal strikes are an issue for me is uneven rocky ground where i sometimes kick a rock that's sticking out. i try to keep my feet level on that type of terrain.
I did this to a 1986 Miyata 710; I went from 700cx25 to 650bx38 with fenders.
i hope you didn't flip the bars
@@biking-places I'm not a barbarian; I put north road bars on it.
I'm right now about to do a similar build with my old steel frame an stumbled over this video a little too late (got all my parts ready). I never considered crank clearance in my planning. Right now I'm about to go from 700cx23c to 650bx35c. Theoretical clearing difference should be about -8mm not considering tire pressure.
Hopefully it turns out alright in the end :)
Are you still riding this build? Would you do it again?
Good luck, I don't think a few mm will be enough of an issue but if you have clearance try to go up a size. It definitely improved this bike tremendously.
A supple 28c tire with that ti frame and carbon fork would've been a nice ride.
i really want to believe that but i've never found a supple feeling 28 tire. even tubeless with lower pressure i just don't feel like there's enough air in there to feel comfortable. i'll keep trying though and if you have a tire you recommend i'm all ears.
@@biking-places ok maybe supple wrong word but I bet a pair of extralight Rene herse would ride well.
Why not use shorter cranks, that seems to be a smaller frame.
yes, that's an option i'm exploring
But do you corner in the same direction of downfacing crank?
not at the kind of angle that has caused me any problems.
If 28 C to gravel tire?
not entirely clear what the question is... i went from a max of 28c to a thicker tire, yes.
You're making all this more complicated than it is.
am i?
@@biking-places Just in my opinion. I've done a lot of this sort of thing and never worried about bb height or fork angles, etc and it's always worked out fine. My concern is that by complicating the process folks new to this sort of thing will be too afraid to start. BUT you're not wrong to do it the way you do and I admire what you do.
i see what you're saying but also feel folks new to this sort of thing can find this info useful. i think around the time i mentioned that i had to build my own wheelset people will realize this is not an entry level project but my video, and sheldon brown's article, along with all the other literature on the subject are good things for people to consider as they learn what sort bike suits them.
Leave it has a road bike gravels a load of crap
it's still a road bike, the title is just clickbait. it just sucks less to ride on the roads now.