Don't do this! (There's a much safer way)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- I recently discovered there's a "thing" going around where people are charging lithium cells by attaching a stripped USB lead directly to them.
Normally lithium cells are very safe if undamaged and correct charging procedures are used. But overcharging them like this can result in cell damage and potentially fire.
Many of the "found" lithium cells salvaged from disposable devices have no extra protection circuitry because it's not needed in their application. But when recharging them it is very important to control the charge current and stop charging at around 4.2V
Direct charging with a USB lead has very little current limiting and the charger will often smash more than its rated current into them, potentially damaging the charger too. It will also keep charging them beyond 4.2V and that poses a genuine risk of internal chemistry damage, potentially resulting in avalanche failure where an internal short circuit occurs. If that happens the full energy capacity of the cell will be released extremely quickly resulting in the electrolyte venting as a flammable vapour, and if sparks blow out too it can ignite resulting in a flamethrower effect.
I want to stress that lithium cells are not dangerous because of the lithium. There's very little lithium metal in a rechargeable cell, and it's diffused through the electrode materials. The real hazard is their ability to store and release very high amounts of energy. (Like an overloaded Star Trek phaser.) If used correctly and protected from physical damage, lithium cells are very safe.
You can easily and cheaply get TP4056 modules on eBay that let you charge a cell correctly from a standard USB lead. The keywords to find them are 5pcs USB TP4056. It's often cheaper to buy them in packs of 5 or 10. There are two types - with or without the extra DW01 protection chips. It doesn't add much to the cost, which is less than 1 £$€ per module.
If you are OK with soldering surface mount resistors you can swap the existing 1.2K (122) resistor for a 2.2K (222) one to change the charging current from the standard 1A to 500mA. Alternatively a conventional quarter watt 2.2K resistor can have its leads shaped for soldering to the surface mount pads. The ideal charging current for a lithium cell is equal to its capacity in mAh. So a 500mAh cell is best charged at 500mA, although 1A can be used for faster charging at the expense of capacity and charge cycles.
So far all the cells from modern "disposable" vapour devices that I've tested have taken a good charge. When salvaging cells for use in projects use common sense and caution with recharging. At this point in time the cells do seem to be standard rechargeable types, but that could change in the future if they discover a cheaper option.
The connector I used is the KF2510 series. But a good option might be the bundles of pre-terminated pairs of connectors sold on eBay.
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#ElectronicsCreators - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You know you've been watching Big Clive too long when you know what a DW01 is without having to be told.
You misspelled "you've finally been watching BigClive enough".
@@Nono-hk3is facts! Haha
Ty X not for my benefit
I thought that too
So true.
I think it's criminal how lithium batteries are included in throwaway products. You are doing a great service by showing people how they can be reused.
That and I’m sick of seeing the box and the wrapper on the floor next to the bin outside the shop the child has just bought it from.
@@jamessones4044not to mention all the little stickers stuck to the bin or everywhere locally around the shop.
absolutely, its such a waste. Lithium is so damaging to the environment to produce. Not to mention some of them now have screens, hell even bluetooth speakers (look it up), so we're also wasting silicon for the essentially little computer inside, which is a precious element that is getting harder and harder to find. It's also very damaging, but not as much as lithium, lord.
@apollo7557 chip shortage anyone? 😂
@@apollo7557 Silicon is not hard to find. It's literally the most abundant mineral on the planet. Yes it needs to be processed, but it's the rare earth and precious metals that are scarce. Such as lithium.
Clive, I discovered your channel when I stumbled upon AvE's back in 2018. The intelligence you both hold is astounding and awesome! Your channel has sharpened my diagnostic skills on the automotive front and has given me strong understanding of circuits beyond what my snap-on diagnostic tablet can ever deliver! Thank you!
I never tire of watching over your shoulder, especially your soldering. Each time it seems I learn something new. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, friend.
Basically "Please for the love of god, just use a Battery Management System board."
Maybe it's just my previous experience with lithium batteries, but charging a 3.7 (4.2v max) cell directly with a 5v USB connection with absolutely no overcharge/overvoltage protection is a very obvious recipe for disaster to me. I shouldn't be surprised that there are plenty of horrible ideas circulating on the internet like undetonated land mines waiting for someone who doesn't know better to come along.
Yeh you need bms to do this or it has no way of knowing it is fully charged or overheating etc
@@jontait1095 I just used a meter or kept my finger on it until it started to get warm
It should be rule one of home electronics: **Never skimp on the power supply.** If you are going to charge any kind of batteries more sophisticated than open-vented lead-acid, you need a charging circuit that can be relied on not to supply too much energy to a cell; otherwise, all the energy that's already in it is liable to be distributed as the sum of half m v squared over each piece of flying shrapnel.
I always used 3.7v chargers that have short and overcharging protections. But I have used it to bump charge a semi dead Nintendo Switch 3.7v battery that won't charge or turn on. Works every time no issues since
At the very least, use a hobby grade charger where you can set the battery type/voltage and current.
This channel is my happy place and has been for what must be about 7 or 8 years now. Thanks Clive. Your content has always been great and in my opinion you or rather your channel have not changed. It’s maintained a kind of continuity or stability that breeds a friendly familiarity. I’m mid aged but I can imagine how valuable your material would be to young people with an interest in electronics. I didn’t really have anyone likeminded to share my interest with or be mentored by while I was growing up, other than say alone with Dick Smith’s Fun Way into Electronics series. You should be very proud of the clear positive impact you’ve had on all ages but especially young creative people. You’ve left your mark. Thank you for all the hard work and best wishes from Australia.
What a brilliant comment.
Strike me Ruth, what a lovely comment 😊
He's taught me everything I think I know about electronics!
Oh W0W, HauptuhrDotNet blog, TOUCHE'! *I Second.* I had just noted needing 'Clive minded Friends'. lol So True about *Clive's mindfulness of Details and laughs,* helps One be at 'ease', well I am. What FUN, Wish i had ability to understand this, but will continue to watch either way. I may not get things to work, but with *the power to 'take things to bits',* i'm learning names of those Bits. It's a start. Cheers!
I think I've still got a couple of Fun Way into Electronics books somewhere around.
You're one of the ones that keeps my passion in electronics up... even tho I suck... You explain it in a way that's very understandable for people that don't really have that knowledge if that makes sense... All your content is very much appreciated :) Keep it up mate
cool a flame thrower battery I love how he warns about battery safety with fun words like a flame thrower to imply the dangers of pushing the battery's to hard
This kind of thing encouraging you to do things is really good for learning because you actually try things
I just wanted to say thanks for all the info,
Due to pesky health issues, I don't do big project anymore and sit around bored. I welcome any broken toy, radio, TV or other electronic devices. to my work desk to keep me busy.
There are thousands of connectors. I would never find the right ones without your channel. I love to "tinker" with projects and you have answered so many questions throughout the years. I have modified so many things with salvaged rechargeable batteries and to make things safe, I just hop onto your channel and find these little modules for this and that.
One important thing to keep in mind about the board with the TP4506 and the DW01: if you try to use it while charging the cell, the TP4506 will see the charge current as well as the load current and will never reach the charge termination point, potentially overcharging the cell.
So use that board to either charge the cell or protect it during use, but not both at the same time.
Thank you for that tip! I had assumed that these boards supported pass through charging. I won't use them in this mode now. I read the other day that most power bank manufacturers have disabled pass through charging. Maybe this is why.
@@chrisreynolds6331 Power banks have their own multifunction BMS chips. Maybe the most common one doesn't handle pass through properly.
That's very good information, especially since the protected one even have separate B+/- and OUT+/- terminals. From what I can tell fixing this would have "cost" three additional components and a very slightly larger PCB, it's a bit sad that no one has capitalized on this to provide a better variant (that I can find, it's all TP4056 with or without protection circuit, no PCBs that appears to be different).
Someone suggested that one could fudge a "load bypass while on USB power" using two schottky diodes (for lower voltage loss) - I may have to test that out next time I use one to confirm that this actually works but the idea looks reasonable (not a guarantee).
@@Torbjorn.Lindgren Maybe look at other chips from the same series. Some are designed to provide power output without the 10% loss in a schotky diode.
@@johndododoe1411 Most people want a pre-existing module so they don't need to design their own, I doubt anyone charging a lithium cell with straight 5V would be capable of that. Which is why it's a shame that the common protected TP4056 modules LOOKS like they support "pass-through charging" (separate B+/- and OUT+/-) but *doesn't* - and that I couldn't find any better (commodity, small, simple) pre-made alternatives, whether TP4056 or not.
If you know of a pre-made module that takes USB power in, manages a rechargable lithium cell and support pass-through charging I think a number of people would be interested in what to search for to find it. Major bonus points if it also includes a boost/buck convert afterwards to provide an adjustable stable output voltage (say 1.5-12V) - but there's good pre-made modules specifically for this part that people already use.
The "build a jank bypass circuit using scottky diodes" was a musing on wether it was possible to salvage it for quick-n-dirty usage (apparently it is, found people confirming it), with a redesigned circuitboards and possibly different charging chip that's unlikely to be the best way to do it.
Rather than using the molex type connectors & having to crimp them, you can get the pre-wired JST connectors which are very common on single cell packs such as those in toy "drones", cameras, etc. Just solder on, and you can interchange with other batteries and chargers.
I also prefer the JST types for smaller batteries.. they take up less space and are fine for 1 amp or so..
I've got a couple bags of JST connectors, they're great for little stuff. I like XT30s and up for anything bigger but the JSTs definitely fill a role.
@crunthat Can anyone give me a link for a "PDRT is better" connector? Can't find that in google.
Just beware that there is no standardized polarity for these random JST 2.0mm pitch you might buy on EBay and Amazon. I've had to swap the pins over on most of them in order to use them with Adafruit Feathers
@@bornach You mean no standardised wire colours?
How did you know that i do this?
He knows what a monkey bomb is!
That’s what I thought
Someone commented it before 0:23
Thank you for this excellent video, Clive! You have saved many people much headache. The first lesson is in how to charge found batteries and the other is the reminder to not vape cartridges you’ve found in the gutter. 👍🏼
I have used a number of these charge boards from eBay. The approximate current during the "constant current" charge phase is 1200/R, as selected by the programming resistor. They now sell these boards with USB-C connectors, as well as the micro USB.
Thank you so much for publicising this issue to a wider audience - I’ve seen so many hobbyist circuits with direct 5V USB to LiPo which has concerned me over the years.
For charging smaller batteries the MCP73831/2 chips work in exactly the same way with the same status led circuitry (that’s what I use to charge at ~300mA for
As always, amazingly useful, safe and inspiring videos, Clive. First rate job, and thanks for all the links, and insights into change-outs of resistors, etc.
I’m currently doing a project that’s going to involve some tiny 301012 LiPo’s, and these videos are invaluable!! Thank you so much Clive!
I have a whole drawer in my electronics cabinet just for TP4056s. Lots of those modules and then just a bunch of bare chips for adding into my own circuit boards. So incredibly handy. I made a handful of 18650 chargers using single battery holders and these modules. Really handy to throw in my camera bag or luggage to easily keep flashlights ready to go.
He just wants us to be responsible when abusing vapor devices, and that’s immensely respectable.
As I look this video up specifically to experiment with a dead vape battery.
❤️ we thank you for your service, Big Clive!
For me, the reason to use connectors (molex, JST-XH, JST-PH, or JST-RCY) besides them just being convenient is that it means I don’t have to keep jogging my half-asleep brain to remember which way the polarity goes every time I want to charge it: instead, that documentation has been made physical by how the connectors mate together. And that is my very favorite sort of documentation.
Yes! These are behavioural barriers - they can be either hard barriers or soft barriers. Less room for error with hard barriers.
It's the game of putting the triangle shaped block into the triangle shaped hole.
@@akaiappears they all go in the square hole
Clive, I frequently rewatch your videos and I came back to this one and it inspired me to go out and look for vapes. I live in Manchester near the universities, so there are plenty of discarded vapes left by students around the place. I spent a few hours out on my bike yesterday and I found a few, and then I went out again later on foot and managed to fill up a whole bag. (I actually had to stop because I didn’t have anywhere else to put them.) I have amassed 22 so far.
This video is fantastic for me, as I am interested enough in electronics to have projects I want to use them for, but not confident enough to have been able to come to a conclusion about how to charge them safely. You have told me everything I need to know in this one video and I’m very thankful for that.
As an aside, I live in shared accommodation and we have room inspections this week. My room currently smells extremely strongly of fruit. I just hope whoever comes to inspect it doesn’t pass out!
I don’t really have an overall point with this comment, but I thought it would only be fair if you knew how helpful this video and your channel in general is for me, because otherwise I’ll probably never say it. Of course, playing around as a kid and then doing a GCSE and A-level physics taught me the basics of electronics theory, but essentially all of the knowledge I have about practical electronics can be in some way traced back to your channel. My work isn’t in electronics (I’m in software) but your channel has really allowed me to maintain an active interest in electronics as a hobby despite not being immersed in the world of electronics in the same way as I am in software. Cheers.
I used to see tons of videos of people doing this to disposable "non-refillable" e-cigarettes. The comments section is always full of gold.
"my battery caught fire and exploded!"
"works fine for me lol you must have did it wrong"
You'd think in 2022 that with the amount of well documented lithium cell fires have occurred that people would be aware of their fussy nature.
You'd also think the sort of person prepared to disassemble devices for cells and assemble them into something useful would have the aptitude to look into charging them properly.
@@deezelfairy it's more about trying to get more life out of your vape for as cheap as possible, less of a lack of aptitude
I did this a few weeks ago after you mentioned it. Bought my very first soldering iron and a few charging modules from ebay. Keep finding these bloody vapes everywhere, now I can put them to use. Thanks Clive.
Excellent video !! I've got tons of charger unit circuits etc. I will admit that I occasionally use my bench PS to charge a cell - but I would never ever leave it alone.
Well taught Clive, it is important to know the safety precautions of everything you get into before you go all in with it
I used to charge batteries like this when I was younger, but I was at least sensible enough to use a current limited supply (500mA) as well as constantly monitoring the battery voltage with a meter Thankfully never had an incident
Not as big a deal when the battery is lead acid or even NiCad if you monitor it and stop it, but theres safe room for error there. Less so with lithium :)
... and please don't connect PP9 lantern batteries to the mains. I did this at school (I was 10 years old at the time) and it went bang and filled the classroom with smoke and I was given a good telling-off.
Never did that jus charged it without worrying about it an nothing ever went wrong been doing it for a while
@@christophersmith930 how many times is it safe to charge after it dies the first time I have a USB I forgot if it’s Apple or android. Usually do 30 second intervals. About five times.
Thank you for this cautionary video, Clive, and very informative. Last week I bought nightcore's LC10 charger power bank to use on various batteries we use and I appreciated its carefully balanced input and output, especially useful for it recognising reverse-polarity when used in my truck or wherever. It's so safe that I allow my 12 year old to use it.
Also I appreciate the various devices you test and tear down, and the amount of time you take producing a video; your precise narration. Providing video content and editing takes time, too. Best from Wendi. 🌻
Go with xtar over nitecore next time
I came here from your comment on Ann Reardon’s video! Thank you for keeping people safe!
Wow, I appreciate that you took the time to write an in-depth and educational description for this video. I wasn't aware that you could use the cell's capacity as a measure for how much current you could push into a cell during charging. These "disposable" batteries are my first experience using lithium-ion cells for projects, so your videos on the matter have been amazing. Thank you for all you do :)
I’ve used quite a few disposable vapes over the years and have always felt bad about tossing lithium cells in the trash, so I’ve kept probably every single disposable after it’s died. I found one particular brand that I really liked and went through a few of them before opening one up. When I finally popped open a “dead” one, I discovered that it was still more than half full of liquid when the battery died. So, after they’d die, I’d pop the back off, hook the cell up to a little 1s lipo charger to recharge the battery, and it was good as new. The taste usually started to fade slightly before the battery died the second time. But, I felt like I got my money’s worth. And mow I have a bunch of cells that I don’t know what to do with…
Photonic induction did a 230v power block out of pound shop vapes, might be an idea
but if you feel bad for tossing cells in the trash, why do you buy disposable vapes?
Search whynotbuildit, he’s been doing it for years
dude just buy a damn mod and some 18650s
@@ThePlacehole because he's lazy and doesn't want to build coils, change cotton, and maintain a proper mod.
I find that stuff like this, in convenient little ready-to-go packages like this one, is simply _perfect_ for speeding things up in your workshop. I tend to have at least a few DC-DC step-downs so that I can get 12V down to whatever voltage quickly... I suppose I'll have to add these to my arsenal. I have a number of Li-Po cells that wouldn't find a use precisely because batteries have specific requirements - like needing to recharge them. This all-in-one package provides a convenient, quick-use solution to that problem. Thanks for making me notice these.
I'm litteraly impressed with the amout of effort you put into this video. Probably prevented some houses from burning to the ground.
This video in particular has to be taught in unies and schools :D
Just checked this out and wow what a deal! You can now get the good one with protection and with a usb type-c connector for less than 2 bucks shipped! Thanks as always, Clive, for your good schooling.
Just to note, some of these single cell (1S) lithium ion/polymer charging boards ship with 1K resistors (I have some in my parts bin and they ship as original with either a 1.2K or 1.0K current set resistors preinstalled, usually specified as either a 1.0A or 1.2A charge board in their ad/listing) and thus charge at 1.2A (the maximum that the IC is rated at, IIRC) - the formula typically being 1200/R=charge rate, should you wish a customized charge rate. They will indeed put out up to 1.2A sustained provided there is adequate heatsinking surface area under the charge controller IC (there is a single thermal pad underneath the SMD IC package), otherwise the IC will go into thermal limiting so that it does not overheat during extended charging. Most of the single cell (1S) charging ICs use a linear style regulator to limit the peak voltage to 4.20-4.25V (absolute maximum) so the input voltage will play a huge roll in determining how much heat the IC will need to dissipate during charging. I have never seen a need to evaluate a charge rate in excess of 1.2A since most inexpensive USB chargers are limited to 5-7W, or so, maximum. Edit: spelling correction.
I've been salvaging these little cells from disposable vapes for a while now, and found another way of charging them safely. A couple of the vape pens I found were the type with replaceable "pods" of vape gravy, and these had USB-C ports in the bottom for recharging the cell. These are basically little lithium ion cell chargers, and do exactly what you want for these cells: They charge the cell up to just under 4.2 volts (according to my multimeter, an average of 4.18 volts) and at about 450 milli-amps.
They also have a nice LED indicator, just a white LED built into the base which lights up when the cell is charging and switches itself off when the cell has reached full charge. So they definitely have a cut-off circuit for charging, not sure about discharging, though in my experience the cells rarely drop below about 3.4 volts once the supply of vape gravy has been depleted. So I just modified these with a pair of crocodile clips for attaching to any other lithium ion cell, keeping the USB-C input as it was.
Very convenient, and free to boot since I found them in a battery-recycling bin. In fact if you want some of these cells and don't want to scour the streets looking for disposed vape pens, just have a look in the battery recycling bins in any supermarket - I have found hundreds of them that way, and that's no exaggeration.
Great idea
Yes, this is what I did, too, figuring that's what the little circuit board in the vapes did though I didn't realize the dangers of mischarging these batteries. I've got an led flashlight/cabin light that took 3 triple A's (4.5 v) so I thought I'd try a 3.7 v vape battery in it and it works awesome, brighter than the triple A's in fact. So I've got a bunch of those recharged and ready to go in case. I converted some other things reusing single vape batteries, too. Great fun!
You do a really good job explaining things - I somehow retain and understand everything despite constantly daydreaming about bagpipes and kilts whenever I watch your videos haha
Thank you for the safety tips in the beginning. Most people wouldn't even think about it, since batteries are typically never seen, thus, forgotten. Also, I love the print outs of the zoomed-in components. At first it looked real! Due to the 2d space in this vid. I appreciate the knowledge and looking forward to more!
I acquired a great quantity of these from my son's partner, but yes I used a usb circuit which was purchased from eBay, I have found many uses so far and got these batteries after your original video on the subject 👍
Great video Clive. I have used a bunch of TP4056, my only regret is they don’t have a built in thermistor/thermocouple on a lead to sense an over heating battery. Otherwise they are great for single cell applications.
It would be good but I notice commercial products don't have thermistor. But notice tool Lithium does. I suspect that hi c rated Lithium needs them. But low c rated products may not. That's just a thought could be wrong. I guess you could get a microcontroller if it worries you.
Excellent video Clive. Very informative. I have a fear of doing anything with lithium cells. You've nicely packaged up what I need to know. Thank you.
This video answered a lot of my questions. Mainly, changing the resistor on the charging boards since I have a few different sizes of batteries. Thank you.
I've not checked eBay yet, but on Amazon US, there are some 15-packs with USB-C connectors and the DW01 circuitry for ~$11.
Good video Clive for those that need to be told how to do something correctly. One thing you could have mentioned is the fact that if a lipo cell does catch fire DO NOT throw water on it to put out the fire as water actually will increase the burning of these cells. :)
Not necessarily. There isn't any metallic lithium in the cell, so you won't get the reaction you think about. But water won't do anything other than turn to steam. Smothering the cell in sand is the way to go.
@@zaprodk Sand. Good to know. I have a Big Clive explosive
containment dish handy with all my lipo battery projects. Somehow lost my Captain tape but taped otherwise.
No, a super common misconception is that lithium cells have lithium fires. All the fire is is a short circuit releasing the stored energy over a short amount of time, causing lots of heat, evaporating the combustible electrolyte. How severe the fire is depends on chemistry, some cells tend to just smoke or smolder without anything too exciting.
Cooling the cell wont stop the short circuit but it will rapidly cool it down and get rid of the flames.
Actual elemental lithium can exist in the cell due to a fault but its a pretty low and harmless amount.
Rule of thumb is, if something stores energy thats easy to release, there is a failure mode where it catastrophically releases that energy all at once. No form of energy storage can avoid this and the denser it gets the worse it gets.
I once accidentally damaged a 3200mAh 18650 cell and as soon as I saw the flames, I tossed it into a pot that happened to be full of water -- the cell just kept on going fully submerged in cold water for like 15 minutes! It was an interesting sight and, quite frankly, a tad unsettling, too. That said, the water did NOT increase the burning, not even a little bit; submerging the cell helped dampen the burning a little. Not enough to put the cell out, no, but still.
@@amorphuc Ages ago I worked on a project that involved making a high voltage li-ion pack from 18650s. We had two 12” terra cotta pots half full of sand at the spot welding station, one on the ground and the other on the bench. SOP was that if a cell shorted and started getting warm, you’d brush the whole module off the bench into the lower pot, then dump sand from the top pot over it.
I love how you explain it with big printed diagramms! Thanks for that!
Charging a cell like that is a disaster waiting to happen. If you've ever had one of these things explode on or near you, you'd realize to excercise the upmost caution. Great video!
People just don't seem to know what BMS is, what it does and why it's so important.
I have been using these found cells with the PIR sensors/RF sensors to make battery operated auto sensing lights. Along with these charger boards.
Just purchased the modules, thanks for the informative video on how to do it properly! Been meaning to try repurposing lithiums but too lazy to find good information.
Excellent video. Thank you so much for taking the time to produce it. Five stars and a bonus kudos.
This video was at the perfect time for me. I'm building a little ESP32 weather unit powered by a couple of 3.7V batteries. I'm going to use a couple of those little boards to make sure the unit cuts out when one of the cells gets to 2.5 volts. Also going to make a couple of chargers for small batteries.
I recently built one using a d1 mini esp8266 and a combo aht20/bmp280. I have a type c charge control board with a repurposed lithium. Big Clive just confirming what i know works already! I can post the code if you are interested
@@HughsScamProducts Thanks, I would love to see the code.
@@johnomeara7240 k. Ill post a link here to my video when I post it. Hope my hours of trying to get the code to work will help other people save some time lol.
I was once charging a tablet battery (without the protection board) and I forgot I was charging it on the wall (suspended in the air) and when I noticed something was strange, the battery was getting bigger and bigger, inflating and exploding seconds later I took it off the charger. Pieces of the battery flew into the house, burning with the sweet smell of lithium... It burned the sofa and some pillows a little, but I managed to put out the fire, but nothing serious happened afterwards... and I learned the lesson of never underestimating the lithium batteries...
Ditto, on the last thought.
Excellent !! Thanks Clive. You make it look so easy. James.
so glad I found this video. I was looking to refurb an e cig and watched a video but was discouraged by the fancy charger the guy used. this happened to pop up in my feed the same day and looks like it will only cost me a few $ for this module you mention that can be used to charge the battery.
Judging by the thumbnail, this seems like one of those special occasions where the explosion containment pie dish is close at hand. 😄
Personally I use my rc car chargers to handle all my charging needs - just need to make up a suitable charge harness.
They're incredibly versatile chargers with most being able to charge all types of lithium, nicd, nimh and lead acid.
If you assemble a multi-cell pack they can handle the balance charging.
You can do a 50% storage charge if the device is not going to be used for some time which dramatically reduces cell stress so increases cell life span.
The higher end chargers will also allow you to set voltage end points aswell - I like to charge my lithium cells to between 4.1-4.15v per cell (90-95% state of charge) which studies have shown dramatically increases the cells lifespan.
Only downside is its totally reliant on you to set cell count/charge current correctly.
Thank you for that information and showing the science behind it as well. Kudos! Much appreciated, sir.
Coming from a background of electronics I honestly couldn't fathom how someone would just plug a battery directly into a stripped USB cable and think it's safe,
but seeing as clearly not everyone has this sort of mentality, thank you for the video saving the people who aren't familiar with electronics in general
I'm certain that you are far too young to remember the UK public information films from the 1970s where people used to use matchsticks to insert wires into mains sockets because they were too parsimonious / poor / mentally defective to fit a plug. These are the sort of people who FA&FO with lithium batteries today.
I have used a similiar kind of USB charger circuit - albeit ones with a USB-C connector - with my modded gameboys.
In the case of the original "brick" (aka DMG GameBoy) you can just wire the 5V output lines of the charger circuits to the battery terminals, as the system expects 6V from the batteries anyway, and the internals are tolerant to running undervoltage to that degree. I even had enough room in the battery compartment (after trimming out the battery divider walls) to stick in a QI charging coil, and solder it to the 5v input lines of the charging circuit.
For my GBA, I had to use a 1N4001 diode to give the GBA the right voltage, and it was a snug fit, but at the end, everything fit perfectly - tho I may want to replace the hot snot I used to stick the charging board to the battery cover with resin or something down the line, as it actually melts the hot glue when it's charging because the board is getting quite warm in places.
Its worth noting that one end of the charge set resistor is connected to the "IN- " connection, so if you're changing the resistor for a "normal" 1/8w resistor, you can connect one end to the IN - connection and the other to the resistor pad that isn't connected there. This will give a little more room to play with.
A very informative video. Especially for people, like me, who aren't very knowledgeable with battery charging circuitry. Thank you, Clive. 👍
That was a really beautifully made and well explained video! Thank you so much!
I used to fly a lot of RCs and I had only one experience with a lithium cell venting randomly. I have gone through literally hundreds of them with no problem except for that one. And I've always used hobby grade RC chargers for lipo.
Also I suppose I was lucky the one that vented was only about 150 mah for a cheap little quadcopter.
Also lipos smell like berries to me its kind of a weird chemical sweet smell
No surprise that it was the tiny one that vented considering you used a beefy standard charger and likely put too much current through it
If you don't destroy batteries you're not having fun... I have killed a few 1300-4s in crashes. It's the most fun when they act as delay fuses and go all rocket on you without warning when you're carrying them back to base.
I'd say it smells of sweet wine gum or similar
I dabble with vintage electronics heavily, and lithium powered devices have now been around long enough that I am finding devices with cells that are 15 or even 20 years old.
THESE are the terrifying ones. They may work perfectly fine, they may be a little weak, they may just be dead, or they may be partially shorted internally and waiting for an opportunity to ruin your day (and your rare vintage ruggedized handheld computer).
Scariest one was a P4-era laptop that I didn't notice had a failed battery until it was making the crinly noises. Touched it, REALLY hot, unplugged it and got the battery out into a safe place as soon as I could. Also had a PDA whose extension batteries were bulging enough to physically disconnect themselves from the battery carrier when I tried to charge them.
As for drones, I've killed three large batteries and have a few small ones that've gotten a bit terrifying.
First, the one that came with my first FPV drone, just got torn up from me not knowing how to mount it to the drone yet. Then I killed it in a crash IIRC.
Second I killed in a crash like Ibrahim. I removed the broken cell, it's now a 3S.
Most recent was an interesting failure. The pack was just sitting on my glass top entertainment center table. I got home from work, and there was a tiny little burn mark on the table, and one of the cells of the pack had gone out. Was probably the smallest LiPo fire event I've ever seen. Pretty sure its companion pack is going to fail in the same way, it's kinda showing signs of the same problems that one did before it went pewfie.
As for killing them in crashes, I found a model that adds little aluminium "armor" plates to help protect the soft little cells when you inevitably plant the thing into the ground at full power. They're a little heavier than conventional cells, but at my skill level that's not really much of a problem, and I have yet to kill one in a crash.
I had an early Kindle Fire whose battery slowly blew up like a balloon over the course of 2 weeks... the poor little tablet got fatter and fatter until finally it tore itself apart (plastic casing separated) and ended up a slab of glass (screen) haphazardly perched atop a nearly spherical chrome-colored sac that used to be the battery. 😅 I always thought it was strange it didn't vent or erupt suddenly instead.
Another great educational video Clive, I thought there was only me that collected those cells plus I reckon lithium will be more expensive than gold or platinum the way things are going, I’m surprised there isn’t a return deposit on those devices as they are potentially going to end up in landfill.
I've been collecting these batteries also from friends donations and have quite a few to play with ! The vast majority of discarded ones I see on the streets are crushed by cars !! I placed the small sensor/switch unit inside the end of some silicone airline and was amused for five minutes by operating the circuit remotely by vacuum 😁
Your channel is fantastic! Thank you so much.
Very cool. I’ve been harvesting these since I saw your video and have been charging by alligator clips and monitoring and charging them to 4.12v and they have been fine so far but I’m very glad you posted this. I didn’t know 5v usb could damage the battery. Thanks again.
For those who want even more simplicity, try to get an olight UC magnetic USB charging cable.
It has two magnetic terminals that just sticks onto the battery ends. No worrying about polarity as it automatically sets it. And it charges li-ion and NiMH batteries.
Or, you know, just get a mains battery charger that is ready to go out of the box and stop acting like USB is the greatest thing to ever happen to the world when it isn't even close.
It looks nice but it sucks that it’s not compatible with the batteries from disposable vapes, they all have little metal strips for the terminals instead of flat contacts like normal batteries. A version with alligator clips would be awesome!
Good shout, I have a few no-name units and they work remarkably well, they were less than $10 each
@@looksirdroids9134 all my old phone charger cables and USB outlets have to be good for something
That's fine for cells in steel cans, but that's not what we're talking about here. These are bare cells often even without ferrous tabs let alone steel caps.
ive always used the "tweaker wire" and so do plenty of people i know, ive since stopped, you're saving peoples property and possibly their lives with this info! thank you
Tweaker wire?
What possessed you to do this? Among the first things you'd read about lithium cells is that they are temperamental and picky about charging, no?
@@Vilvaran the USB with split ends
@@Devantejah ofc, and I was shown by friends, there's videos all online of how to recharge said cells in this exact way
@@TheInformationalBox And it didn't seem incredibly sketchy? With all the news about lithium fires?
So, in a nutshell, use protections!
I use these modules quite often to gently charge reclaimed 18650 cells.
One additional tip would be to solder a USB type A connector in parallel to the USB Mini connector.
That allows to charge without having to look out for an additional cable.
Thanks again for the video!
My local Aldi used to have a battery recycle bin, that was a wonderful trove of lithium goodness, laptop,phone, vacuum, drill, vape batteries. Unfortunately about 12 months ago they put a lock on them…. Very sad that they can’t be recycled by the public…..
They can't have you getting free stuff! You should be buying stuff! From them!
Try viewing " LPL " on You Tube
Lock Picking Lawyers
You Tube Channel .
Outstanding .
I do have a power bank with 2 cells 3.7v 18650 ..I did added on more 18650 because the power bank was made for 3 cells but when I opened was only 2 cells inside... and I added another 6 cells just like that one from the Ecigaret.. Now it's taking about 1.5 hours to charge but I can use the power bank to charge my phone for a day while playing Cod mobile 🙂
I often fall asleep to your voice. The deep sounds just do it for me ... then you take things to bits and you get the high pitch snapping popping and the odd die grinder... but it's totally worth it. Keep it up, you take me to my happy place 😉
Valuable info here, thanks as well as enjoyed!
17:28 - Those TP4056 chips can get very hot even without the heatshrink.
I actually bought some tiny aluminium heatsinks for mine (not so much for the chip's sake, more for my own if I happen to touch it), but the adhesive they came with was kind of crap, so I ended up having to solder the edge of the heatsink to the USB port, which probably involved heating the chip more than it ever would on its own. :-P
"solder" and "aluminium" do not mix well for me. BTW, did you stick it on top of the chip, or on the other side of the pcb? The latter should be better (i think, haven't ever measured), as the chip case has low thermal conductivity, while there should be vias below the thermal pad of the chip to the other side of the pcb that are specifically placed there to conduct the heat.
@@victortitov1740 - The PCB is mounted on a battery holder, so it has to go on top. And the solder worked fine, eventually. Just don't breathe too hard near it.
The little white connectors are known as Molex KK series.
These little controllers are very useful and so cheap. I have used them for a wide selection of batteries and they always work well. As Clive says it's worth getting a strip of them - they are useful to have around. When I have several batteries of the same type I usually rig up some kind of battery holder and attach the module output to that - for example a AA battery holder and make modifications that are needed. Much easier than having to solder each battery but depends on how you are going to use them of course.
Excellent content, highly appreciated. Useful and practically very applicable information, I currently have some of these batteries laying about and I am planning to reuse them in some projects.
Any charge put into a rechargeable battery has to be governed in some way. The current has to be trickled in, not flooded in. Just connecting them up to a, 'dumb', USB connector is a very bad idea. As mentioned, it'll overcharge the battery and cause it to become unstable to the point of bursting/exploding/catching fire.
I hear the fire engines I think someone is doing this
Thanks for showing us these chips - I've got 8 R-Pi Picos on the way, and with their ability to run from a single lithium cell, one of these cheap little boards would be the perfect addition for a battery powered project. I've also got dozens of salvaged 18650s from old laptop batteries, so using one of these boards makes perfect sense. Cheers from Australia! 🍻
A very interesting and well-presented video. Thank you, Clive. I have added this to my list of tech reference videos, and plan to order some of the charge control boards.
I have not yet succeeded in training my fingers to articulate the way Clive's do, as multi-purpose soldering workholders. I really must work on that :-)
I'm a fan of the LiFePO4 chemistry because of the higher tolerance to over-charge/discharge and recharge cycles into the 1000+ range. It has the disadvantage of lower nominal Voltage and V-charge max. Do these controller & protection IC's you discuss here allow for the lower LiFePO4 Voltages? Thanks again for what you do, Clive! :)
Not usually. These use commodity ICs that are designed for the 4.2V cells. There are ICs that have voltage selection, but they aren't on these cheap PCBs.
Precisely what we need to know and how to do it! Thanks. These things are a criminal waste of resources so we should harvest them while we can before regulations or an attack of sense hits the manufacturers.
As an aside - I suggested banning them on Twitter. The response was quite harsh - some even calling me "responsible for the deaths of many people" on the basis that if I banned them[1] then poor people would be forced to buy tobacco based products.
[1] I'm not in power and have no intention of trying to be in power, so I'm not in a position to ban them.
Thanks for this valuable information!
Excellent video as usual! The data sheet for the TP4056 had the word "coruscate" instead of "flashing" for describing the LED modes. I looked it up and it basically means flashing. I learned a new word today!
Terry Pratchett (RIP) used the word frequently in his Disc World books. I took it to mean "bright, directionless and with varying intensity" lol but i'm an idiot.
Hi Clive - Great video (as usual). Could I suggest soldering a 2 pin connector where the regulating resistor goes - then you can easily change the charge rate by plugging different resistors in.
This is a really good idea. Could maybe use a 10k pot and mark different positions for different charge current settings?
Great video! I actually started to collect some and got a bunch of different versions. I knew about the tp4056 board as I used it in a lot of my projects but my question is, how would you connect multiple of this cells and how to protect/ charge them in that case.
For example connecting 6, 8 or even 10 of these to get an extended capacity.
Wire them in parallel, connecting positive to positive, negative to negative. As long as they're the same voltage you're safe. The controller will see it as one battery.
@@ChiEKKUsama I also recommend having some sand nearby to smother the cells in case things do go wrong
If you're talking connecting them in series, you have to get 2s,3s,4s,etc BMS boards. These manage voltage balancing for each cell
@@alattice So in paralel is safe to wire them up without a BMS? What about if the cells are of different capacity?
@@sebastiantv108 if it's in parallel, you can do what chiekku said and connect the + to +, and - to -, though they should be +/-0.1V difference when you do, and ideally same capacity (smaller capacity will be forced in fully charged state longer, reducing overall life & larger capacity battery will get less life constantly charging the lower capacity bat during discharge).
Tl;dr, parallel is fine connecting directly via shared BMS, though try to keep the same type of battery connected
Charles Ol’Boy!! WOW I enjoyed that piece very much mate, thanks 😊 felt like the old days back to the beginning 🎉
I know your stats are growing and that means you are educating/entertaining more folk but I do enjoy some RetroChaz coming out of my speakers, half expected an explosion 😊😅!
Take care mate
Later
Bob
England
Thanks for this. I didn't actually know these little charger/safety boards were a thing.
They're so inexpensive that you can just .... buy a box of them and install one permanently on every lithium battery you find, then set the charge current appropriately.
As for output, I think a buck/boost would be invaluable for this kind of situation, allowing you to stabilize the output voltage for more sensitive devices, or even kick it up for a little more power.
That last bit would only really be useful for larger cells though, these tiny 500mAh would struggle to push much of anything when in step-up mode.
Post-hoc edit: You can buy them with boost converters built in!
Friendly tip for those who don't know this stuff well: Dont leave wires hanging around if the ALL connections aren't WELL covered. If it's a high power lithium battery connected, any exposed wires/conductors WILL touch everything else metal within reach, which wants to cause a nasty fire, given enough time and opportunity. I've seen others make those mistakes, luckily it only destroyed a bunch of electronics. That battery had one cell puff up but very luckily stopped there... the owner gave it to me to take home.
I put it in the back yard and "charged" it on purpose with rectified A/C. DONT do that! Obviously something very dangerous was going to happen, anyone would do well to assume they shouldn't burn lithium batteries on purpose and if there is a fire it will be larger then you think!
(I used containment and back-up fire suppression(s)) Anyway, then there was a strong stench of spray paint, and then a lot of fire! (it was a large drone battery). That one actually scared me, burned it self completely in less then thirty seconds! All that was left was weightless ash! THE POINT is: that's what it wanted to do BEFORE I took it home! And that was because of un-covered connections in a rats nest of wire. Just don't ever do that!
Oh yeah get this, so I work at a vape shop and this is a thing I wish more people would not do and there are rechargeable disposable vapes that are awesome for someone into hobby electronics. In fact, I think I should send a couple in if you don’t cover those ones and the circuits inside. In reality they are using cells that are similar to 18650 flash light cells in some cases
I'm also finding more Lost Mary vape devices. These have a USB-C port so it seems they were meant to be recharged but there is no easy way to refill the tank so in the end they just get tossed. I took one apart and the charging circuit that converts 5V USB to 4.2V is integrated into the pressure switch capsule. Would be great if Bigclive did a teardown and investigated whether this is safe for recharging the 650mAh lipo I found inside. The build quality wasn't great to be honest
Nice. I used these boards to add manual charging of solar charged lamps I have (18650 battery) They needed it, since I live in the north of norway, and we have very little to no light during the winter, so they won't charge enough with the tiny solar panel they have.
Dude your totally awesome!! I have wanted to lean this stuff for so long! thank you! I am going to need to watch this several times! PLEASE PUIT PRODUCT LINKS?
Hi Clive,
I've been using these vapes for a year or so, and always hated the idea of just binning them, and thought the batteries inside could be repurposed - so I just saved them all.
I've studied low level electronics in uni but not to the level to be comfortable messing around with these !
I've got about 100 of these little vapes waiting to be torn down and reused for something, I was thinking of making a power bank, similar to the ones I see people making out of those 18650 cells.
Is there any other resources that you can recommend to learn a bit more about this sort of thing to save me electrocuting myself and burning my house down?
Cheers !
“Grandads other channel”, he’s mentioned that he watches this Clive’s videos but I’m only here because of grandads channel. Same camera angle, he’s obviously fan so you’ll feel comfortable there I guess. He made a powerbank which is what I’m hoping to do with my batteries.
If you reverse the battery polarity of the 4056, it gives off little smoke (don’t ask me how I know). I use the input alongside the USB plug to connect to a solar panel this allows a small IOT device to be self-contained.
And I bet the chancers that are using stripped USB cables don't bother testing the polarity of the cable. I seen a couple of cases where the polarity is not what you expect from the colour of the wires.
Just be careful, retriggered charge cycles can mess up the cell if you have very low load.
4.2V is kinda unsafe for the cell long term, and the charger won't keep the cell at it. Except when restarted on a full cell repeatedly.
most excellent video. i found 3 battery in the gutter. thank you.
on an other subject, what setup should i use for électrolyse (plating copper) ?
thank you.
I don't doubt this video but I've been re-charging these with the phone charger method for about a year now with no issues, more so only to get enough juice in it to keep the disposable vape alive long enough to vape the rest of the juice, I don't actually intend to re-use the battery for other uses. Great video none the less.
Me on my way to collect used vapes from streets
same but ima charge them with none of those protections in our landlord's engine bay for no specific reason
I thought you were going to sacrifice the little cell for our enjoyment. I guess we won't see flames today... bit disappointed by that, but extremely informative video, nonetheless. Cheers!
I may do that in a different video.
What a top video! Really useful.
Ta very much, Clive!
I hardly know anything about electrical engineering, but I love this channel. I respect the brilliant minds that make modern technology possible!
Magic !! How did you manage to plug the USB cable in correct first time !!!! It is ALWAYS the 3rd try that works :) :)
The trick is 'look, turn, plug'! Some (most?) USB plugs have a join down the 'back' side, but it's more a question of getting used to the direction your specific device wants the plug to be!
It was the third take.