I like the cell packs you made yourself with the Buss-Bar and Soldering. I personally love the battery packs you did some time ago and were huge. I know it took many hours to build but fortunately you only have to do it once.
For info, brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. It's electrical conductivity is about 28% that of copper. That means for a given current (Amps) and length the brass needs to have about 3.5 X the cross sectional area! Your battery systems are very interesting, but when you have high currents through brass you will lose quite a bit of energy through heat unless you take into account the need for a far greater size of conductor using brass. I can see that brass rod is very easy to source (easier than copper rod) but remember that you need to scale up the cross sectional area in relation to copper. This is important because if you are going to the trouble of collecting electricity, storing it, recovering it then converting it to AC, every inefficiency means you need more solar collection and more battery storage.
What size copper wire would be recommended for the loads in this type of setup? I likely would have ditched the brass rods idea myself, but wouldn't know what size wire to use. I would assume that 14 gauge OFC wire would suffice, but perhaps my estimation isn't accurate?
The more I watch your videos the more I appreciate what you share with us. Ive been watching Will Prowse for quite some time now, but have only recently began to watch your vids. Will does a great job teaching how to design and build a solar system, then add learning from you on how to build battery packs and we will have a solid foundation from start to finish. Ive been struggling with the cost to build vs buy, especially considering SOK batteries. Super solid design, new cells, completely serviceable, heavy duty BMS, and $570 for a 100ah. It is also a US company that builds the batteries here as opposed to just being the middle man for a Chinese built batteries.
hey Jehu, i did had a hard time to get this as well but i did got to actually get them working. what i did instead of making the hole 5 x 10 configuration i did them 9 by 9 or a small portion of them untill i had the hole pack that i need and then put the small packs to make a bigger one, hopefully i did explain my self., it is hard to get them into place at first but they will. GREAT VIDEOS, YOU INSPIRE A LOT OF US ! KEEP'EM COMMING !!!
For the VRUZEND kit, try to assemble 10 10 cell sets, then wire them together... would that help me to not have the "contact problem" that you had when assembling a full 100 cell set?
What about if you only did one line of cells at a time with that quick connect system, make sure each line of connectors work before moving onto the next line.
I'm really glad you showed the Vruzend system. I was looking at those and tempted to buy some. But that's a serious design flaw to not have actual springs on the contacts to make sure they have enough give to bounce back and make a good connection.
Love Diy, it's awesome when anyone learns it, no matter what the qualification... I will say though, hats off to all the qualified Electrical Engineer's, it's a loooooong road, especially in the beginning.... 1st year study... I'm surprised I chose this field, I could have done anything at all, especially if you hate electric shocks like I do...xxx
Used these for my electric bike battery (52v). Battled with similar issues but worked it out. The system works well and and I like that I don't have to heat up expensive 18650 cells. 1. For pressure fitting the caps to the cells simply do one row at a time and tap with 2x4 & soft mallot - Key to knowing when it was tight enough was using a single cell with caps in place as a reference. 2. The key for servicing bad cells is to rotate the caps on one end such that interlocks go in the same direction! That way you can easily separate the block at the nearest rows/cols, drop in a new cell, interlock to the blocks and reconnect only the nearest wiring. You'll notice that other videos show the tabs and slots of the edge connectors going in opposite directions on some edges of the finished battery assembly
I would imagine if you capped each cell individually, made sure they are connected as a single cell & then interconnect them into the pack, it might keep those random cells in line.
The poor solar inverter is probably trying to track the maximum power point of it's input. Which for batteries with a simply-modeled constant internal resistance, would mean "enough amps to pull the battery down to half of it's open-circuit voltage" (Maximum power transfer theorem). It won't reach that power point since the batteries can supply much more than the inverter's sticker "1000W", but the inverter will peg itself at 100%, 100% of the time trying to reach it. Hopefully, the controller in it has reasonable power and temperature limiting. Interestingly, it's product page specifically says not to connect it's input to batteries.
jehugarcia Hi Mr Garcia My name is Jorge Ruiz I just wonder where can I order some cells from you I. really appreciate it if I'll have a place to go and order them thanks if you can..
Hey jehu love the videos. I live in Scotland and I'm making many changes to the way I live. I thought about solar and turbines on my property, electric cars and a tesla power wall or diy version like yours. my experience gives me the confidence to do most things myself but I hit upon an idea. With solar or wind we have 2 options, grid tie or battery storage, but there is another option to all of this. now where I live it's free to charge your electric car, the government is trying reduce its carbon footprint so they the local councils have been installing chargers free to use all over the cities. so say I bought a new Nissan leaf with a 30kwh battery pack. now I only drives about 10 miles a day so most of my pack is still charged after my days driving. I thought why don't I use my car as my home power. I typically use about 5kwh energy in my home over 24 hrs which I know is not a lot but we don't need ac and most things in the house are energy efficient appliences, lights etc. I could plug my car into an inverter and power my home for several days until i need to charge my car up again for free. so my fuel costs are zero but also my home electrical costs are free too (sticking it to big energy companies that have been robbing us for years). what do you think of my plan and can you see any flaws or issues I have missed?
Go for it laddie! While you're at it, you can charge up a wee battery pack at your home from the car so there's power there when the car's away on the low road, or the high road. Lol
You're not really sticking it to the energy company, because they still get paid for the energy you will be using. No, you'll be sticking it to the council. Actually, you'll be sticking it to everyone in that area who pays their Council Tax, who pays the council energy bill, which will include your usage.
Your right jehu .... I bought like these kits and I face the same problem in addition difficult connection of each cell holder individually. I already email them but they ignored my suggestions. I have new idea about these old black cell holder and I want your opinion? If you can help me to develop new method to how connect cell each other without soldering and welding.
Hi I think your an exceptional person it is obvious that you care and are truly faithful to the cause of solar cars and self sufficiency We live in Milo Maine Milo has much cold weather I have 10 L16 battery's hooked up and configured for a 12 volt system my batteries are 12 years old I plan to make a new battery wall much like you have done we like how you take time and patience explaining everything thanks for all your good works and helps
I found your work amazing, I am impressed really..Thank you..Youare authentic and serious Can you tell me please what kind of charger are you using with your battery pack?
+jehugarcia Please do a quick video explaining what you guys are talking about... Learning how electronics work so I want to see exactly what you are talking about.
Sieve5 what we are talking about is simply assemble one battery with the caps make sure it has connections on both sides then do another and clip them together then another and so on and so on till the whole pack is built. And if you want to learn about electronics www.ISCET.org is an exeunt resource. I have a little pull with them.
I never liked the VRUZEND idea for two reasons, 1: how to do you fuse the cells because looking at the unit they are directly connected together which is unsafe and 2: the cost is alot higher vs the normaly way.
You bolt the connections on in the configuration you want. You can use fuse wire to give a tesla style individual cell fuses. Nothing is directly connected.
I can't believe that someone actually gives your videos negative ratings. Instead of giving positive feedback or adding something that can make your project easier.
Yes Mark Williams and most likley you have at least 1 in your house very often left on a bed or soft furnishings and do you leave that out in the garden when you are not using it.
FireballXL55 i keep forgetting that everyone who has no clue about safety is watching too....lol...use your own common sense folks. always add heat sinks or fire proof casing or walls.
Awesome Channel! I would be interested to see a test of the voltage drop along that bus bar under a heavy load. I'm not sure if li-ion cells are as sensitive to charge imbalances as flooded lead acid in parallel strings.(most likely not) it would take longer cables but you could connect the load to opposing ends of the bus.
I really enjoy your feed. I'm a retired electrical engineer, so your topic is of great interest to me. I agree with Darth Vader that brass and high current don't mix well. Easiest thing to do is just get some solid copper wire, 14 gauge would do, go to 12 if you are cautious, strip any insulation off or just use the ground which is normally bare. Also a good idea to have your connection physically supported so that all the strength isn't just the solder joint. Keep up the good work. If I can be of assistance, let me know.
Checking would require to make sure that there is not only a connection, but also that the contact resistance of that connection is low. That checking would require you to put a significant amount of current through it. And if it has a low contact resistance at the time you checked it, it doesn't mean that it stays low. Corrosion, vibration and what else can influence that. And when the contact resistance isn't low, it will heat up under load and that will further degrade the bad connection. I wouldn't trust that system! I would trust good spring-loaded contacts only for applications that don't have to deal with high currents or high voltages. Everything else should have permanent connections (screw terminals, spot-welded or soldered connections).
I thought that at first, but the problem with that, is considering how tight they fit together, aligning them so they would connect would be a nightmare and could cause them to loosen up and lose contact.
That wouldn't work, as he said. The springs are not springy, they bend inward and stop connecting during the build. The springs need to be replaced with something less bendable.
Pity that the 'quick' interconnect frame idea didn't work out, but I'd still go with soldering every time for reliability. Small neodymium magnets may be useful as another method of quick connection, but would be more expensive than would be worth it. Also working with so many magnets in close proximity could get chaotic - like herding cats! I use hard drive magnets to connect groups of cells together for bulk charging before and after measuring capacity with an Opus, and for that they work well.
Good point, but although the skin may be thin, it is also wide and the body of the magnet conducts, otherwise it wouldn't have been able to be electroplated. It's not a problem for charging currents of a few amps. Edit: also, if the magnet overheats it'll demagnetize and probably disconnect, a win-win!
The reason for the quick assembly is solder the batteries is a bad idea. It shortens their life. If you look online, J, should have done them in rows 5 at a time.
2 problems I saw the springs were any good second issue is the shape of each connector was slightly off so that some of your batteries were cocked at an angle amplifying the spring issue if the connectors were in the shape of a Z to allow a series type of connection to be made without wires that would be nice and this would still allow for any shape as you could connect at any 90 degree point then just need wires for the end point and parallel connections
I appreciate the effort you made to show us this product from India. It's not bad because it's Indian, it's bad because the manufacturer cut corners to earn a higher profit. I honestly wouldn't trust any cheap spring loaded connections on a bank of so many batteries/cells even if you did get it to work. One bad connection means the whole unit is down. Unless they're using a tried and true spring connection all you have to understand is how many times you've had to reset a battery to get something to work. Handling a connector with oily hands, dirty conditions and/or corrosion will cause a connection to go bad. It's no big deal if it's a TV remote, a watch or a flashlight, but for a whole house power backup where one bad connection could cause all your refrigerated food to spoil or your furnace to fail and all your plumbing to freeze.....
Something else to note with your Grid-Tie unit: If you plug that into a wall outlet in your house and you have a smart meter installed on your house's power box, the power company will know that you are back-feeding power into the grid and may send you a letter. On some meters, they won't know unless you are generating more power than you are using and truly back-feeding power to the grid. So size your systems to just supplement your power needs. I''m not sure how a real PowerWall works but I'd imagine that it has an "Islanding" feature that in the event mains power fails the powerwall also shuts off and will NOT feed power to the house or connected load.
LasVegasVocalist from my understanding that's correct all grid tie inverters shut off if they main goes down. Which kills it for my idea unless I mod it with a main shutoff befor the meter.
Most places will not allow you to have a disconnect before the meter. There is a point of demarcation that the utility will say that you are responsible for everything after this point, usually the down-stream side of the meter. With smart meters, they do not want power interrupted to "their meter" unless it is by them. Those power lines can also communicate at a freq much higher than the 60 hz power.
to put solar power into the system before the meter they would love that then you get billed for your own solar power and they get free power from you and do not see you ever producing it that seems like a win win for the electric company the key is rather the meter is counting that power and no it should not count any power produced by you as you use rather its solar or a bedini motor unless its fed back into the system then they have to pay you for the power that you put back in how ever if you want to have an off grid solar power system you should be allowed to do so
Hey, can you tell me what’s the difference if you made two power walls, and one with 20A 18650 cells, and another with 35A 18650 cells? I wanna build a power wall to run my man cave, and all the (med-heavy) machine tools/air compressors. Etc. but I wanna make it round 50kwh...?🤔
I find it intriguing that you state your holding a pack you just made and it has cells that are not making contact and it requires taking apart to fix.... yet.... YOU DON'T TAKE IT APART. YOU JUST HOLD IT AND SAY HOW ITS NOT WORTH IT.... remember that time you made an error and PayPal held your customers funds....
Dude you're funny! (and smart)! Lol really enjoy watching these videos, you have and employ the same style of engineering as me, realistic and functional
Hi Jehu, thanks for the video! Hey, what was your plan with the grid tie inverter when the batteries ran out? It obviously does not have a low voltage cut down, were you counting on the little BMSs in the packs to do it? Take care!
OK, These are fun to watch. HOWEVER, THIS IS DANGEROUS! I'm an electronics engineer. PLEASE DON'T do what this guy is doing, unless you know how to solder, design with proper wire sizes and insulation, fusing, prevent explosions in batteries from burning your house, and all the rest. There are SO many safety things wrong here to even start!
Here's some tips for all you "experts" who think you know better than electrical engineers: 1. Don't solder lithium cells, spot weld. Heat damages lithium cells 2. Always individually fuse packs! Or expect a housefire... 3. Don't connect batteries to an MPPT inverter without some form of current limiting (MPPT is meant for solar direct connections) 4. Don't use power rails that are close enough to arc 5. Don't go without a BMS. Easy way to have cells out of balance and overcharge/undercharge due to internal resistance being different across individual cells 6. Don't charge at higher than what the packs can handle
The animals of India and Pakistan. Same people but HATE each other because the colonial England told them so over 100 years ago. I'm sick of their bullshit wars over nothing. Y'all don't feel embarrassed a little? 👏👏👏👏
For $1100 I can get 50 of these packs, 4.4Ah at 36v. In a perfect world each pack is roughly 4.4*36/1000 = 0.1584 kwh. Multiply by 50 and we get 7.92kWh of power (ignoring conversion to ac). The average US house uses somewhere between 30-50kWh of energy per day, so to cover 'most' of my power needs I'd want 4x the amount of cells, which then gets me to 31.68kWh for $4400, just for the batteries mind you. Two Tesla power walls would (28kWh) would run $11,700, so it seems this project is a fair bit cheaper, however I wonder if it's still worth it? After the labor, cost of installation, inverters and other parts... I wonder how far off the Tesla power wall actually is. Please correct me if I'm (or the math) are wrong, I really want to be convinced to go this route and kickstart my project. I currently have about 200 18650 cells and am considering the alternatives.
Deiphobuzz In case I forgot to mention I'm an American. Maybe we use more power than where you're from? I used government sources for my data. www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3
In the UK. Since 2011 I've been using on average, 9.5Kwh per day, but then when It's cold I put on sweater and when It's hot we just enjoy it. I'm not trying to change the environment by heating it up or cool it down.
Dude! im so glad i found your channel! i have a project of my own and with your help it will happen! Thank you so much for posting gold in this sea of drama and useless drivel posted on you tube!
1 dollar for a battery is soo expensive ... buy broken laptop batteries and grab ur voltmeter and start testing for i buy 10 dead laptop batteries for 1 dollar i tested them all balanced them buy soldering them to each other for like a week ... after 1 week they all balanced ... now im watching to see what i need to buy ... every laptop battery have 6 cells for me every laptop battery had 1 "not good" cell so 5×10=50 cells ...i might buy 10 more to have 100 cells
Instead of connecting a solar panel to the 36V charge controller, could you connect a 24V or 48V power supply? And if you used a 36V power supply at the correct amperage for the battery pack, would you even need the charge controller? I'm too much of a newbie to attempt this myself but interested in how it would work.
Bumped into something similar in $ store flashlights for the fishing box. The contact tab is cheap metal and no real spring tension. A shim under the tab keeps it in contact but on a volume scale would take way to much time. Good video.
Love checking in on the vids, you always find a discounted deal for us at home to get some serious equipment going. Didn't see you flush the whole thing out, but have you done a full blown powerwall at the house? I'm not talking batteries just mounted on the wall, but including a grid tie inverter into the house and a charger to time-shift your power usage from the utility? (Low rates at night, etc) The batteries and packs are a no brainer now. I want to know how to seamlessly switch from grid to battery for the whole house and what the optimal voltage is or what the cheapest power inverter / chargers like. This should be right up your alley.
I love your channel! Hopefully you update videos as new tech/methods come out - and that you tart "complete n00b" series and assume we have no knowledge of powerwalls etc :)
Did you make a second video for this power wall? On the Motherboard episode I can see a 36volt power wall made from 30 packs. I wanted to know details of that setup.
The other video's i've seen on this have all been positive, It's refreshing to see this side. I still think i'll be buying one kit just for testing. As I would prefer to avoid soldering.
When I parallel batteries I connect all + and all - the same as you. The difference is I connect my positive terminal on the the first packs rail and my negative terminal on the last packs rail. The reason is, I realized during charging and load the first battery in the string was getting taxed more than the last. When I rewired it, it balanced the load equally across all packs.
Do you fuse the cells on the output? Should you fuse each cell or blocks of cells? If you use solar to charge them, what kind of charge controller can you use to best maintain the cells for the long term? Thanks :)
The Vruzen video shows people putting them together in 4's or 6's. Then gently hammering a block of wood onto the top of each pack. Then assemble each 4 or 6 cell pack. That seemed to work easily and well.
I forgot to mention this is a great video as it gives a warning to a product that must work 100% of the time. If you build a battery that fails to make connection, you can get a unbalanced cell and not only will it put a lot of pressure on the bms it could cause a fire or explosion.
I have bolted the Vruzend kit together,see the diy18650 battery kit threads on Endless Speed and pedelecs forums.I cut the posts that surround the bolt in half to make room.Because of the lack of spring I'm thinking of replacing the spring and bolts with brass bolts.
Thanks for sharing how to connecting the packs together like the first method As far as the second method that's a shame that didn't work out well I bought some from the seller they are good packs I am thinking of using two packs to build a ebike
I like the cell packs you made yourself with the Buss-Bar and Soldering. I personally love the battery packs you did some time ago and were huge. I know it took many hours to build but fortunately you only have to do it once.
For info, brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. It's electrical conductivity is about 28% that of copper. That means for a given current (Amps) and length the brass needs to have about 3.5 X the cross sectional area!
Your battery systems are very interesting, but when you have high currents through brass you will lose quite a bit of energy through heat unless you take into account the need for a far greater size of conductor using brass.
I can see that brass rod is very easy to source (easier than copper rod) but remember that you need to scale up the cross sectional area in relation to copper.
This is important because if you are going to the trouble of collecting electricity, storing it, recovering it then converting it to AC, every inefficiency means you need more solar collection and more battery storage.
I would have used stripped copper wire instead of brass rod.
D'oh. Yes, good thinking.
What size copper wire would be recommended for the loads in this type of setup? I likely would have ditched the brass rods idea myself, but wouldn't know what size wire to use. I would assume that 14 gauge OFC wire would suffice, but perhaps my estimation isn't accurate?
Robert Randolph of your trying to reach the electrical capacity of household wiring,.... then the equivalent materials would be my choice.
16mm is your household incomer some 25mm 16mm should be good unless u plan maxing
The more I watch your videos the more I appreciate what you share with us. Ive been watching Will Prowse for quite some time now, but have only recently began to watch your vids. Will does a great job teaching how to design and build a solar system, then add learning from you on how to build battery packs and we will have a solid foundation from start to finish. Ive been struggling with the cost to build vs buy, especially considering SOK batteries. Super solid design, new cells, completely serviceable, heavy duty BMS, and $570 for a 100ah. It is also a US company that builds the batteries here as opposed to just being the middle man for a Chinese built batteries.
best deals on lithium cells j35.us/Lithium-July
hey Jehu, i did had a hard time to get this as well but i did got to actually get them working. what i did instead of making the hole 5 x 10 configuration i did them 9 by 9 or a small portion of them untill i had the hole pack that i need and then put the small packs to make a bigger one, hopefully i did explain my self., it is hard to get them into place at first but they will. GREAT VIDEOS, YOU INSPIRE A LOT OF US ! KEEP'EM COMMING !!!
Aloha from Hawaii blessed to have found your channel. This is life changing.
My favorite part was that you were beat by the clips that didn't work for you. Kudos for including that in the video. Loved it.
12:41, The way I put mine together was I installed the "caps" on each cell individually, then i slid them into each other to make the pack.
For the VRUZEND kit, try to assemble 10 10 cell sets, then wire them together... would that help me to not have the "contact problem" that you had when assembling a full 100 cell set?
What about if you only did one line of cells at a time with that quick connect system, make sure each line of connectors work before moving onto the next line.
I'm really glad you showed the Vruzend system. I was looking at those and tempted to buy some. But that's a serious design flaw to not have actual springs on the contacts to make sure they have enough give to bounce back and make a good connection.
Ah, by the way thanks for the book I just got it and read half of it already.. really amazing, a treasure! Thanks again.
Love Diy, it's awesome when anyone learns it, no matter what the qualification... I will say though, hats off to all the qualified Electrical Engineer's, it's a loooooong road, especially in the beginning.... 1st year study...
I'm surprised I chose this field, I could have done anything at all, especially if you hate electric shocks like I do...xxx
Great video Jehu. Your traditional battery pack system, soldering them toguether seems like the best way. Thanks for shearing.
Great stuff mate. I want to do this one day and when I have learned enough I will. No hurry. Thanks for showing us and the advice. Rik
Used these for my electric bike battery (52v). Battled with similar issues but worked it out. The system works well and and I like that I don't have to heat up expensive 18650 cells.
1. For pressure fitting the caps to the cells simply do one row at a time and tap with 2x4 & soft mallot - Key to knowing when it was tight enough was using a single cell with caps in place as a reference.
2. The key for servicing bad cells is to rotate the caps on one end such that interlocks go in the same direction! That way you can easily separate the block at the nearest rows/cols, drop in a new cell, interlock to the blocks and reconnect only the nearest wiring. You'll notice that other videos show the tabs and slots of the edge connectors going in opposite directions on some edges of the finished battery assembly
I would imagine if you capped each cell individually, made sure they are connected as a single cell & then interconnect them into the pack, it might keep those random cells in line.
+MilitantPeaceist good idea
Or just send it back and get your money back. Too unreliable, and if there isn't sufficient surface contact, you risk overheating.
Jehu, here is Micah demonstrating the VRUZEND kit.
You've gained a new fan in me! I'm interested in how to make this a reality for my home!!
Jehu: Your bus is the boss! Appreciate that you share your skills...
I commented before watching the complete video but this guy is speaking the absolute truth the vruzend kit is crap!
The poor solar inverter is probably trying to track the maximum power point of it's input. Which for batteries with a simply-modeled constant internal resistance, would mean "enough amps to pull the battery down to half of it's open-circuit voltage" (Maximum power transfer theorem).
It won't reach that power point since the batteries can supply much more than the inverter's sticker "1000W", but the inverter will peg itself at 100%, 100% of the time trying to reach it. Hopefully, the controller in it has reasonable power and temperature limiting.
Interestingly, it's product page specifically says not to connect it's input to batteries.
+gWikiY yeah it will probably die pretty soon unless we can throttle it back to its continuous rating
jehugarcia Hi Mr Garcia
My name is Jorge Ruiz
I just wonder where can I order some cells from you I. really appreciate it if I'll have a place to go and order them thanks if you can..
jehugarcia I do have some 18650 from LG the pink ones what do think can we have more pinks From LG?
Good tip on the book! Yes, I learn from reading... and having a printed reference is invaluable.
And this is why we train for years in the military as electronics technicians... Lots to learn...
Hey jehu love the videos. I live in Scotland and I'm making many changes to the way I live. I thought about solar and turbines on my property, electric cars and a tesla power wall or diy version like yours. my experience gives me the confidence to do most things myself but I hit upon an idea. With solar or wind we have 2 options, grid tie or battery storage, but there is another option to all of this. now where I live it's free to charge your electric car, the government is trying reduce its carbon footprint so they the local councils have been installing chargers free to use all over the cities. so say I bought a new Nissan leaf with a 30kwh battery pack. now I only drives about 10 miles a day so most of my pack is still charged after my days driving. I thought why don't I use my car as my home power. I typically use about 5kwh energy in my home over 24 hrs which I know is not a lot but we don't need ac and most things in the house are energy efficient appliences, lights etc. I could plug my car into an inverter and power my home for several days until i need to charge my car up again for free. so my fuel costs are zero but also my home electrical costs are free too (sticking it to big energy companies that have been robbing us for years). what do you think of my plan and can you see any flaws or issues I have missed?
Go for it laddie! While you're at it, you can charge up a wee battery pack at your home from the car so there's power there when the car's away on the low road, or the high road. Lol
+Stephen Spreckley Sounds like a great plan!
"sticking it to big energy companies that have been robbing us for years" by using elctricity that will be paid to those companies by the taxpayers.
You're not really sticking it to the energy company, because they still get paid for the energy you will be using.
No, you'll be sticking it to the council. Actually, you'll be sticking it to everyone in that area who pays their Council Tax, who pays the council energy bill, which will include your usage.
jeeez if the world worked like that no one get anywhere... brilliant idea
Your right jehu .... I bought like these kits and I face the same problem in addition difficult connection of each cell holder individually. I already email them but they ignored my suggestions. I have new idea about these old black cell holder and I want your opinion? If you can help me to develop new method to how connect cell each other without soldering and welding.
Ahmed Sami, not worth the effort..
Soldering with individual fuses is still the best method and has zero impact on battery life.
Hi I think your an exceptional person it is obvious that you care and are truly faithful to the cause of solar cars and self sufficiency We live in Milo Maine Milo has much cold weather I have 10 L16 battery's hooked up and configured for a 12 volt
system my batteries are 12 years old I plan to make a new battery wall much like you have done we like how you take time and patience explaining everything thanks for all your good works and helps
I found your work amazing, I am impressed really..Thank you..Youare authentic and serious
Can you tell me please what kind of charger are you using with your battery pack?
Maybe VRUZEND can take your feedback an make a better version 2. I have Micah's book on my reading list! :)
put a top and bottom on 1 battery at a time then link them together
+Pete Rattigan Yeah I'll try that
My thoughts as well!
YES, I was screaming: Making smaller sub-assemblies is what the manufacturer and every other TH-cam video shows
+jehugarcia Please do a quick video explaining what you guys are talking about...
Learning how electronics work so I want to see exactly what you are talking about.
Sieve5 what we are talking about is simply assemble one battery with the caps make sure it has connections on both sides then do another and clip them together then another and so on and so on till the whole pack is built.
And if you want to learn about electronics www.ISCET.org is an exeunt resource. I have a little pull with them.
New subscriber here. Your videos kick ass all the way around, I look forward to learning a lot.
where did you get that battery pack? that you had in your hand from the beginning of your video. I'm not all that great at soldering lol
Thanks
I never liked the VRUZEND idea for two reasons, 1: how to do you fuse the cells because looking at the unit they are directly connected together which is unsafe and 2: the cost is alot higher vs the normaly way.
You bolt the connections on in the configuration you want. You can use fuse wire to give a tesla style individual cell fuses. Nothing is directly connected.
I can't believe that someone actually gives your videos negative ratings. Instead of giving positive feedback or adding something that can make your project easier.
They are likely bots and not humans. Every video has a few regardless of quality.
rob xavier... The Dislikes are no doubt from people who don't understand the video and is way over their little heads....
Yes Mark Williams and most likley you have at least 1 in your house very often left on a bed or soft furnishings and do you leave that out in the garden when you are not using it.
FireballXL55 i keep forgetting that everyone who has no clue about safety is watching too....lol...use your own common sense folks. always add heat sinks or fire proof casing or walls.
ungrateful cats !!
Wow man you should be a shop teacher! I would never miss a class! Seriously! Converted VW, awesome idea!
Awesome Channel! I would be interested to see a test of the voltage drop along that bus bar under a heavy load. I'm not sure if li-ion cells are as sensitive to charge imbalances as flooded lead acid in parallel strings.(most likely not) it would take longer cables but you could connect the load to opposing ends of the bus.
I like the solder method but what if a middle cell goes out do I just cry? Lol
@Lawrence Landen @Cairo Tristan
Weird how you both joined TH-cam at the same time.
Wanna know how to increase your range with a cheap adaptation? replace all real glass with 1/8" Plexi on the VW
That is both illegal and unsafe for road use
I don't doubt about unsafe, but definitely illegal.
Lexan is a better choice ,looks like plexy but is super tough
I really enjoy your feed. I'm a retired electrical engineer, so your topic is of great interest to me. I agree with Darth Vader that brass and high current don't mix well. Easiest thing to do is just get some solid copper wire, 14 gauge would do, go to 12 if you are cautious, strip any insulation off or just use the ground which is normally bare. Also a good idea to have your connection physically supported so that all the strength isn't just the solder joint. Keep up the good work. If I can be of assistance, let me know.
great info again. thanks for the heads up. for a self taught engineer, i still think that your a maddd genius. thanks again.
You should try doing each sell individually and checking it before you put them all together
Checking would require to make sure that there is not only a connection, but also that the contact resistance of that connection is low. That checking would require you to put a significant amount of current through it. And if it has a low contact resistance at the time you checked it, it doesn't mean that it stays low. Corrosion, vibration and what else can influence that. And when the contact resistance isn't low, it will heat up under load and that will further degrade the bad connection.
I wouldn't trust that system!
I would trust good spring-loaded contacts only for applications that don't have to deal with high currents or high voltages. Everything else should have permanent connections (screw terminals, spot-welded or soldered connections).
I thought that at first, but the problem with that, is considering how tight they fit together, aligning them so they would connect would be a nightmare and could cause them to loosen up and lose contact.
That wouldn't work, as he said. The springs are not springy, they bend inward and stop connecting during the build. The springs need to be replaced with something less bendable.
Cheap springs used, it would cause problems within near future
Pity that the 'quick' interconnect frame idea didn't work out, but I'd still go with soldering every time for reliability.
Small neodymium magnets may be useful as another method of quick connection, but would be more expensive than would be worth it. Also working with so many magnets in close proximity could get chaotic - like herding cats!
I use hard drive magnets to connect groups of cells together for bulk charging before and after measuring capacity with an Opus, and for that they work well.
Keep in mind that the coating on the magnets is very thin and may not be able to handle the sustained high current draw from these batteries.
Good point, but although the skin may be thin, it is also wide and the body of the magnet conducts, otherwise it wouldn't have been able to be electroplated.
It's not a problem for charging currents of a few amps.
Edit: also, if the magnet overheats it'll demagnetize and probably disconnect, a win-win!
The reason for the quick assembly is solder the batteries is a bad idea. It shortens their life. If you look online, J, should have done them in rows 5 at a time.
2 problems I saw the springs were any good second issue is the shape of each connector was slightly off so that some of your batteries were cocked at an angle amplifying the spring issue if the connectors were in the shape of a Z to allow a series type of connection to be made without wires that would be nice and this would still allow for any shape as you could connect at any 90 degree point then just need wires for the end point and parallel connections
I appreciate the effort you made to show us this product from India. It's not bad because it's Indian, it's bad because the manufacturer cut corners to earn a higher profit. I honestly wouldn't trust any cheap spring loaded connections on a bank of so many batteries/cells even if you did get it to work. One bad connection means the whole unit is down. Unless they're using a tried and true spring connection all you have to understand is how many times you've had to reset a battery to get something to work. Handling a connector with oily hands, dirty conditions and/or corrosion will cause a connection to go bad. It's no big deal if it's a TV remote, a watch or a flashlight, but for a whole house power backup where one bad connection could cause all your refrigerated food to spoil or your furnace to fail and all your plumbing to freeze.....
Does the hoverboard battery just charge through the discharge cables? Not through a separate cable that leads to the the C- on the bms?
not a $1 anymore more like $1099.99. Em i missing something here for about the $1 ebay batteries? please let me know
Something else to note with your Grid-Tie unit: If you plug that into a wall outlet in your house and you have a smart meter installed on your house's power box, the power company will know that you are back-feeding power into the grid and may send you a letter. On some meters, they won't know unless you are generating more power than you are using and truly back-feeding power to the grid. So size your systems to just supplement your power needs. I''m not sure how a real PowerWall works but I'd imagine that it has an "Islanding" feature that in the event mains power fails the powerwall also shuts off and will NOT feed power to the house or connected load.
Its my understanding these grid tie units have that built in, if the grid goes off the inverter goes off, i gotta test that.
LasVegasVocalist from my understanding that's correct all grid tie inverters shut off if they main goes down. Which kills it for my idea unless I mod it with a main shutoff befor the meter.
Most places will not allow you to have a disconnect before the meter. There is a point of demarcation that the utility will say that you are responsible for everything after this point, usually the down-stream side of the meter. With smart meters, they do not want power interrupted to "their meter" unless it is by them. Those power lines can also communicate at a freq much higher than the 60 hz power.
Oh sorry I was meaning befor the meter meaning the power I make befor it hits the meter then the main not between the main and the meter.
to put solar power into the system before the meter they would love that then you get billed for your own solar power and they get free power from you and do not see you ever producing it that seems like a win win for the electric company the key is rather the meter is counting that power and no it should not count any power produced by you as you use rather its solar or a bedini motor unless its fed back into the system then they have to pay you for the power that you put back in how ever if you want to have an off grid solar power system you should be allowed to do so
Second video I watch so far, really like them, especially the details about build/product complications. I just subbed. :)
Hey, can you tell me what’s the difference if you made two power walls, and one with 20A 18650 cells, and another with 35A 18650 cells?
I wanna build a power wall to run my man cave, and all the (med-heavy) machine tools/air compressors. Etc.
but I wanna make it round 50kwh...?🤔
Indian product looks like a good approach, just poor material/quality control.
Andrew Van Der Plaats
Different assembly approach is required
I find it intriguing that you state your holding a pack you just made and it has cells that are not making contact and it requires taking apart to fix.... yet.... YOU DON'T TAKE IT APART. YOU JUST HOLD IT AND SAY HOW ITS NOT WORTH IT.... remember that time you made an error and PayPal held your customers funds....
Dude you're funny! (and smart)! Lol really enjoy watching these videos, you have and employ the same style of engineering as me, realistic and functional
Hi Jehu, thanks for the video! Hey, what was your plan with the grid tie inverter when the batteries ran out? It obviously does not have a low voltage cut down, were you counting on the little BMSs in the packs to do it? Take care!
that kit may be for bare cells. no wraps
HyperGro DWC the co creater ebikeschool.com showed it of with wrapped cells
Nicholas Pihl Word missing? "showed it of" what? Puzzled...
Nicholas Bodley off not of
HyperGro DWC that was my thought. Remove the shrouds on the cells.
rick epocnt they work fine with the covers. You have to put them togeahter one at a time.
OK, These are fun to watch. HOWEVER, THIS IS DANGEROUS! I'm an electronics engineer. PLEASE DON'T do what this guy is doing, unless you know how to solder, design with proper wire sizes and insulation, fusing, prevent explosions in batteries from burning your house, and all the rest. There are SO many safety things wrong here to even start!
Here's some tips for all you "experts" who think you know better than electrical engineers:
1. Don't solder lithium cells, spot weld. Heat damages lithium cells
2. Always individually fuse packs! Or expect a housefire...
3. Don't connect batteries to an MPPT inverter without some form of current limiting (MPPT is meant for solar direct connections)
4. Don't use power rails that are close enough to arc
5. Don't go without a BMS. Easy way to have cells out of balance and overcharge/undercharge due to internal resistance being different across individual cells
6. Don't charge at higher than what the packs can handle
Richard do you have a video on how to do this properly?
I love what you are doing, and I enjoyed the motherboard video you were in. Keep up the good work!
Bought these per Jehu's recommendations! Can I charge with imax b6? If so what settings?
The one time something made in India featured in one of the vlogs I follow. :(
and it failed!! tesla should open a factory in india and make electric marutis!!
It failed but i appreciate jehugarcia for not complaining or insulting
The animals of India and Pakistan. Same people but HATE each other because the colonial England told them so over 100 years ago. I'm sick of their bullshit wars over nothing. Y'all don't feel embarrassed a little? 👏👏👏👏
For $1100 I can get 50 of these packs, 4.4Ah at 36v. In a perfect world each pack is roughly 4.4*36/1000 = 0.1584 kwh. Multiply by 50 and we get 7.92kWh of power (ignoring conversion to ac). The average US house uses somewhere between 30-50kWh of energy per day, so to cover 'most' of my power needs I'd want 4x the amount of cells, which then gets me to 31.68kWh for $4400, just for the batteries mind you. Two Tesla power walls would (28kWh) would run $11,700, so it seems this project is a fair bit cheaper, however I wonder if it's still worth it? After the labor, cost of installation, inverters and other parts... I wonder how far off the Tesla power wall actually is.
Please correct me if I'm (or the math) are wrong, I really want to be convinced to go this route and kickstart my project. I currently have about 200 18650 cells and am considering the alternatives.
+Zii sounds right.
30 to 50kwh a day?! Jezus, average family homes here use less than 3000 a YEAR. thats less than 9kwh a day.
Deiphobuzz In case I forgot to mention I'm an American. Maybe we use more power than where you're from? I used government sources for my data.
www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3
Zii a
In the UK. Since 2011 I've been using on average, 9.5Kwh per day, but then when It's cold I put on sweater and when It's hot we just enjoy it. I'm not trying to change the environment by heating it up or cool it down.
I like that you let us see what doesn't work. Being so ADD, doing it wrong seems to be the best way for me to learn.. Best lessons are my mistakes.
Dude! im so glad i found your channel! i have a project of my own and with your help it will happen! Thank you so much for posting gold in this sea of drama and useless drivel posted on you tube!
1 dollar for a battery is soo expensive ... buy broken laptop batteries and grab ur voltmeter and start testing for i buy 10 dead laptop batteries for 1 dollar i tested them all balanced them buy soldering them to each other for like a week ... after 1 week they all balanced ... now im watching to see what i need to buy ... every laptop battery have 6 cells for me every laptop battery had 1 "not good" cell so 5×10=50 cells ...i might buy 10 more to have 100 cells
Ali0The0King where do you buy these laptop batteries?
They dropped the ball. didnt use spring steal.
true!! never used proper tensioning spring, china will copy that and make a better one soon and sell it for a fraction of the price!
Chinese quality?
Chinese quality, that's an oxymoron! Just like an "honest politician"
+hahn soar that's made in India LOL shitty Indian quality worst than Chinese
steel
Great Job showing us who Follow you’re wisdom in electronics in real time issues that arise ! If you get stumped we’d be really lost !
Love this channel. Feeling inspired to try
Instead of connecting a solar panel to the 36V charge controller, could you connect a 24V or 48V power supply? And if you used a 36V power supply at the correct amperage for the battery pack, would you even need the charge controller? I'm too much of a newbie to attempt this myself but interested in how it would work.
Awesome videos bro. Just picked up the DIY book from the link in your description.
Always great instructions and information!! Love your style in general!
Great setup tutorial. Can you please also show how to charge Li-ion with BMS?. Like what should be my safe input current?
There is an updated version of the vruz connectors, 2.0, available that addresses the non contact issue
How are you thermally regulating these packs? Li-Ion degrades very quickly if not controlled for
how to build those pack of battery ?
Bumped into something similar in $ store flashlights for the fishing box. The contact tab is cheap metal and no real spring tension. A shim under the tab keeps it in contact but on a volume scale would take way to much time. Good video.
Love checking in on the vids, you always find a discounted deal for us at home to get some serious equipment going.
Didn't see you flush the whole thing out, but have you done a full blown powerwall at the house? I'm not talking batteries just mounted on the wall, but including a grid tie inverter into the house and a charger to time-shift your power usage from the utility? (Low rates at night, etc)
The batteries and packs are a no brainer now. I want to know how to seamlessly switch from grid to battery for the whole house and what the optimal voltage is or what the cheapest power inverter / chargers like. This should be right up your alley.
I love your channel! Hopefully you update videos as new tech/methods come out - and that you tart "complete n00b" series and assume we have no knowledge of powerwalls etc :)
I have basically a miniature tank and i want to swap it over to electric any tips?
Did you make a second video for this power wall? On the Motherboard episode I can see a 36volt power wall made from 30 packs. I wanted to know details of that setup.
thanks for the honest review. l was considering Vruzend. I think the product would be fine for small packs and low power apps.
I just want to know how you made those battery packs?
If I wanted to charge one of those 36v 10p 2s as configured with my IMAX charger, how would I set the IMAX?
Fascinating video, have learned a lot watching you, what gauge is the fusible wire link please, regards Doc Cox
FYI, there is a new VRUZEND Kit 2.1 that uses bolts exactly as Jehu suggested.
Hey broseph,
Your vids are on point
Can I use a 33v max voc 42.8 solar panel on the 7210a charge mppt to charge a 36v batery
The other video's i've seen on this have all been positive, It's refreshing to see this side. I still think i'll be buying one kit just for testing. As I would prefer to avoid soldering.
Thank you for sharing this important information listening from Brownwood Texas
That really hits my sweet spot
Where are the links to buy all this stuff?
When I parallel batteries I connect all + and all - the same as you. The difference is I connect my positive terminal on the the first packs rail and my negative terminal on the last packs rail. The reason is, I realized during charging and load the first battery in the string was getting taxed more than the last. When I rewired it, it balanced the load equally across all packs.
which link is for the "grouping" cell option with soldiering?
Does screwing on and tightening nuts do anything to affect the tension in the "spring"?
I really wish i had this channel when I was a kid
Do you fuse the cells on the output? Should you fuse each cell or blocks of cells? If you use solar to charge them, what kind of charge controller can you use to best maintain the cells for the long term? Thanks :)
Hi, how much would you charge to make a 600 cell powerwall battery bank for a 24v solar system??🙏🏻👍💯
The Vruzen video shows people putting them together in 4's or 6's. Then gently hammering a block of wood onto the top of each pack. Then assemble each 4 or 6 cell pack.
That seemed to work easily and well.
I forgot to mention this is a great video as it gives a warning to a product that must work 100% of the time. If you build a battery that fails to make connection, you can get a unbalanced cell and not only will it put a lot of pressure on the bms it could cause a fire or explosion.
Can you do a video with more explaining on everything for like a beginner and have a full parts list
Interesting, can you please try Battery Blocs? I have some and they work really well.
Thanks, I'll get the book for information on how to build.
I have bolted the Vruzend kit together,see the diy18650 battery kit threads on Endless Speed and pedelecs forums.I cut the posts that surround the bolt in half to make room.Because of the lack of spring I'm thinking of replacing the spring and bolts with brass bolts.
Great book! Not liking white cap holder, but as you mentioned black cap holders better! Cheers
Thanks for sharing how to connecting the packs together like the first method
As far as the second method that's a shame that didn't work out well
I bought some from the seller they are good packs I am thinking of using two packs to build a ebike