Per code, the EMT can be used as an EGC, however I always run a ground wire for each pipe. Also, phasing one of the feeders red would aid in troubleshooting down the road (not required per 215, but good practice)
Impressive job. Fast, neat, and good. I wonder how many thousand times he's done it. I would have red-taped the second feeder, although I recognize 215.12 does not have a requirement to do so here.
Good video Sparky. Interesting to watch different pros do things. Sometimes different methods to getting the same end are sort of regional or maybe personal.
What gauge are the EGC, the two hot feeds, as well as the neural feed does the NEC code require in this demonstration going from the main panel to the sub panel? I apologize in advance if you have already answered this question in the comments! I’m a long time subscriber and do a lot of electrical in my remodeling career and I love your videos!!!
You ran your green ground wire from the sub panel to the neutral bus bar in the main panel? In other words, they’re married on the same bus bar. Isn’t that against the NEC code and also, the sub panel is to be grounded separate from the main panel with its own grounding rod.
Maybe I’m getting old, but he was handling the 6 awg wire for the sub-panel way to easy. Would be so cool to install a sub-panel in the field and have it go this smooth. 🥰.
While derating technically applies here, it doesn't change what's done. So I can see not mentioning it, since it happens so frequently. You just know 4 wires here are fine. For those that want to get into it, 240.4(D) says 14ga is 15a max, 12ga is 20a max. Derate for 4 current carrying conductors per 310.15(C)(1) is 80%. However, the derate is against the wire rating, not the max specified by 240.4(D). The ratings on the THHN likely being used is a 14ga/25A and 12ga/30A (90C - 5A less for 75C). So after the derate, it's still good for full circuit amperage.
🤦♂Didn't look closely enough at the installation before posting my prior comment. No multiple current carrying conductor derating applies at all. 310.15(C)(1)(b) - Adjustment factors shall not apply to conductors in raceways having a length not exceeding 600 mm (24 in.).
Hello. I attended an electrical apprenticeship program and like your videos. You have sent me some stickers which are really helpful. Is there anyway you can send some more so I can share with the other apprentices?
The ground is being passed via the conduit. Many newer outlets have a connection on the screw mount to the box that will pick up the ground from the metal box. I would assume that in that case a (neutral [wrong word, disregard) EGC bonding wire would not be necessary. Have you seen a problem with the built-in grounding to the box on the newer outlets and would, therefore, recommend the ground wire anyway?
I believe you're referring to the self-grounding clips? They eliminate the need for bonding wire connecting the metal box to the device. However, I would still use a bonding wire as a redundant means of bonding. They do not eliminate the need for a neutral. See my video: What is a Self Grounding Clip and What Does the 2020 NEC Say About Them?: th-cam.com/video/mRK8JluQwj4/w-d-xo.html
@@SparkyChannel Correct. I don't know why I said "neutral bonding," he's running an EGC bonding wire. So, technically, the grounding clip is sufficient, but the wire is a good idea anyway. I had previously seen your other video, hence the reason for the question.
Using my philosophy about being nice to "the next guy" someday that receptacle will be updated to a GFCI or to a "smart" outlet that might not have a self-grounding clip - so having a green wire in there would be a kindness.
@@HoosierRallyMaster While possible, and I agree with that philosophy, I would suspect that as time goes by, more & more outlets will have the grounding clip. By the time the outlet needs replaced, it's likely that they will all have the grounding clip or the strap itself will be designated by the manufacturer as being sufficient if you remove the paper washer from the back of it.
@@gregorysampson8759where’s it’s separate ground? I see it bonded to the main panels neutral bar which is not NEC code but has to have its own separate grounding rod. I learned this from Sparky.
Yes it could. And most are in residential. As far as I know you can run black for all circuits except in some 3 phase systems where a high leg has to be orange, but it’s common practice to label different circuits according to circuit number especially in 3 phase systems as it avoids confusion when troubleshooting and not to mention crossing high voltage and low voltage panels. So generally single phase in like a residential setting will have a single hot and a single neutral coming in on the transformer on the pole and on the secondary side it is center tapped which is where the neutral comes from and each end of the windings of the secondary of the transformer is a leg and between the two legs you get 240 volts and between each of the legs and the center tap or neutral you get 120 volts. Also known as split phase. So even though you have a single phase feeding your house to get dual voltages it is center tapped so each half of the windings are 1/2 the voltage of the full winding together and this is why most of the wires such as romex you see in a house are black, because each leg is just two halves of the same single phase feeding the transformer. Now 3 phase is a little different as now you have 3 different phases coming and a ground that doubles as a neutral when using one of the three phases like feeding a house in a city of the power lines because all power from generating stations are transmitted with 3 phases and a ground because true 3 phase power doesn’t require a neutral. Only when you branch off one of those three does it require a neutral. That is why I’m the city you see a powerline that will have 3 wires on top and one single one at the bottom. Those three are the three hots and that bottom is the ground. And most businesses use 3 phase power in the city and even on farms. That’s why when you get in the country you’ll notice that the powerlines that were 3 wires on top and one on the bottom becomes one on top and one on the bottom on country roads where no 3 phase is needed and that where one of those phases is branched off in it’s respected direction and is split as equal as possible so much will come from one phase and go one way and the other phases are branched off so each two wire going down a country road will most likely be a different phase from the three in the city and that bottom wire is the neutral and ground. Industrial and commercial buildings will be fed with all three phases as they will need all three to power things like motors and other apparatus’s that require more power to run. And this is where you’ll see multiple color cables for different circuits and industry standard is high voltage is brown, orange and yellow, and purple depending on where you are and a grey for the neutral. That’s the 277/480 volt panels and low voltage is black, red, and blue for the hots and white for the neutrals for 120/208 panels. It makes it way easier is they are color coded to their circuit number as it narrows it down to the circuit numbers. Makes troubleshooting and stuff that much easier. Also side note to find the color code of the wire for your circuit number if it is divisible by 6 evenly it would be blue for low voltage or yellow for high voltage and if it isn’t divisible by 6 to use the remainder. And this assumes you know that circuits 1 and 2 are black for low voltage and brown for high voltage circuits 3 and 4 are red for low voltage and orange for high voltage and 5 and 6 are blue for low voltage and yellow for high voltage. An example would be say you have a panel and you are trying to figure out what color wire to pull for say circuit 30. We’ll 6 goes into that evenly so if you were pulling for a low voltage panel you would pull a blue, if you were pulling for a high voltage panel you would pull a yellow. But now say for instance you run into a circuit that isn’t divisible by 6; say it’s circuit 25 we’ll 6 goes into 25 four times with a remainder of 1. So back when I said that circuit 1 and 2 are black for low voltage and brown for high voltage and that you use the remainder if it’s no divisible by 6. In that case the remainder was 1 so you would base your color or wire off of circuit 1. Odd number are on the left side of a panel and even are on the right side. And the panels are number as such it’s just how the breaker slot is attached to the buss bars that run vertically in the panels, for single phase it’ll be two for 3 phase it will be 3 single buss bars, and it starts at the top with 1 and 2 across from each other so they share the same buss bar attachment point and as you go down it shifts to a different phase so 3 and 4 will share a buss bar connection and 5 and 6 share a connection and so on. Regardless of how many circuits you have. It starts at phase A then goes the phase B then goes to phase C and starts back at A and so forth. I hope i didn’t confuse you much and I know I added a little more information than you asked. But I hope it helps.
yall would cry if you saw how long it took some of my students to run a 3-4-3 lighting circuit in conduit. some take more than a day :p which of course, they fail
@@SparkyChannel I'm sorry, I had to edit that comment. I meant my students, not any of these guys on these videos!! :) I show your videos to my students for motivation and pacing purposes. Thank you SO MUCH for making these videos! AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU GOOD SIR!
This goes against all practices of grounding I have done out in the field...do not use a metal box or pipe as your ground...use a ground wire from your ground bar in the panel so that in case the metal parts used to "bond" the panel are compromised the ground will always have a connection to ground through the EGC from the main panel
To be fair, this is a competition, and they are given a spec that is permitted by code. In the competition are they rewarded or penalized for "improving" the spec? If I was paying for the improvement and it was something I didn't ask for, I'd penalize them! In real life, are you turning down bids because it specs conduit EGC because you refuse to do that? Or paying the cost for the upgrade out of your pocket to get the bid?
@@TheRetiredtech In my experience, there are significantly more failures that break EGC connectivity with a conduit EGC vs a green wire EGC, especially over improvement and maintenance iterations. No EGC, no fault clearing and now a shock hazard, made worse by the ungrounded bonded conduit and boxes putting the voltage everywhere for someone to come in contact with. Locating+fixing a non-obvious break once you are aware of it is often so much work to be not be cost effective - just slap a GFCI on it or do a new run.
@@RJ-ej1nr Hi RJ! Great to hear from you. Merry Christmas! The thing is, these guys have to know the code cold. If they don't know what to do if there is no green wire and they are running emt, they aren't going to make it to the next round.
Per code, the EMT can be used as an EGC, however I always run a ground wire for each pipe. Also, phasing one of the feeders red would aid in troubleshooting down the road (not required per 215, but good practice)
Me too. These competitors weren't given any green wire though, so they were tested on EGC code.
Merry Christmas!
Thanks that was my first question. I pretty much have only used NM so this is new to me!
Thanks for sharing your educational video tutorials. Greetings from one of your supporters from Canada
Works a good pace. And accurate. Good stuff. Thank you
You're welcome!
Merry Christmas!
Impressive job. Fast, neat, and good. I wonder how many thousand times he's done it. I would have red-taped the second feeder, although I recognize 215.12 does not have a requirement to do so here.
I would have done the same. But as you say, 215.12 does not have a requirement to do so here.
Merry Christmas!
Good video Sparky. Interesting to watch different pros do things. Sometimes different methods to getting the same end are sort of regional or maybe personal.
Yes, that's true. I've learned a lot watching these pros doing the various tasks. Merry Christmas!
It isn't piperonal its per code..
No bushing on the conduit end?
No bushing is required unless the wire is 4 awg or larger.
Hey Bill wishing you a Merry Christmas
Thanks, and same to you!
Very interesting video coming from the UK, electrics in the US are so different
Great job
Thanks Jorge!
What gauge are the EGC, the two hot feeds, as well as the neural feed does the NEC code require in this demonstration going from the main panel to the sub panel? I apologize in advance if you have already answered this question in the comments! I’m a long time subscriber and do a lot of electrical in my remodeling career and I love your videos!!!
6 AWG it appears.
Question...since the boxes wired from the panel were metal and in pipe why was there not a ground wire from the panel to connect to each device?
These competitors weren't given any green wire. In this way, they were tested in their knowledge of EGC code.
Merry Christmas!
You ran your green ground wire from the sub panel to the neutral bus bar in the main panel?
In other words, they’re married on the same bus bar.
Isn’t that against the NEC code and also, the sub panel is to be grounded separate from the main panel with its own grounding rod.
Maybe I’m getting old, but he was handling the 6 awg wire for the sub-panel way to easy. Would be so cool to install a sub-panel in the field and have it go this smooth. 🥰.
That's for sure! Happy New Year!
@@SparkyChannel happy new year to you as well. Hope you have a safe and blessed 2023.
Hello sparky ..! Please What year NEC code is Florida using?
It would have been nice in my opinion , to mention also , something about derating , as long he ran 4 current-carrying conductors in one conduit.
While derating technically applies here, it doesn't change what's done. So I can see not mentioning it, since it happens so frequently. You just know 4 wires here are fine. For those that want to get into it, 240.4(D) says 14ga is 15a max, 12ga is 20a max. Derate for 4 current carrying conductors per 310.15(C)(1) is 80%. However, the derate is against the wire rating, not the max specified by 240.4(D). The ratings on the THHN likely being used is a 14ga/25A and 12ga/30A (90C - 5A less for 75C). So after the derate, it's still good for full circuit amperage.
🤦♂Didn't look closely enough at the installation before posting my prior comment. No multiple current carrying conductor derating applies at all. 310.15(C)(1)(b) - Adjustment factors shall not apply to conductors in raceways having a length not exceeding 600 mm (24 in.).
Hello. I attended an electrical apprenticeship program and like your videos. You have sent me some stickers which are really helpful. Is there anyway you can send some more so I can share with the other apprentices?
The ground is being passed via the conduit. Many newer outlets have a connection on the screw mount to the box that will pick up the ground from the metal box. I would assume that in that case a (neutral [wrong word, disregard) EGC bonding wire would not be necessary. Have you seen a problem with the built-in grounding to the box on the newer outlets and would, therefore, recommend the ground wire anyway?
I believe you're referring to the self-grounding clips? They eliminate the need for bonding wire connecting the metal box to the device. However, I would still use a bonding wire as a redundant means of bonding. They do not eliminate the need for a neutral. See my video: What is a Self Grounding Clip and What Does the 2020 NEC Say About Them?: th-cam.com/video/mRK8JluQwj4/w-d-xo.html
@@SparkyChannel Correct. I don't know why I said "neutral bonding," he's running an EGC bonding wire. So, technically, the grounding clip is sufficient, but the wire is a good idea anyway. I had previously seen your other video, hence the reason for the question.
@@wmcomprev It's a good question. I think I'll make a video about this. :)
Using my philosophy about being nice to "the next guy" someday that receptacle will be updated to a GFCI or to a "smart" outlet that might not have a self-grounding clip - so having a green wire in there would be a kindness.
@@HoosierRallyMaster While possible, and I agree with that philosophy, I would suspect that as time goes by, more & more outlets will have the grounding clip. By the time the outlet needs replaced, it's likely that they will all have the grounding clip or the strap itself will be designated by the manufacturer as being sufficient if you remove the paper washer from the back of it.
No bond bushing on the sub pan?
Don't need one
Only the first panel gets bonded. That's why sub panel has separate ground and neutral wires.
@@gregorysampson8759where’s it’s separate ground?
I see it bonded to the main panels neutral bar which is not NEC code but has to have its own separate grounding rod.
I learned this from Sparky.
Please I have one question..Can Control and Line Voltage Wires Be Run in the Same Conduit?
Yes
Could black wire have been used for both circuits?
Yes it could. And most are in residential. As far as I know you can run black for all circuits except in some 3 phase systems where a high leg has to be orange, but it’s common practice to label different circuits according to circuit number especially in 3 phase systems as it avoids confusion when troubleshooting and not to mention crossing high voltage and low voltage panels. So generally single phase in like a residential setting will have a single hot and a single neutral coming in on the transformer on the pole and on the secondary side it is center tapped which is where the neutral comes from and each end of the windings of the secondary of the transformer is a leg and between the two legs you get 240 volts and between each of the legs and the center tap or neutral you get 120 volts. Also known as split phase. So even though you have a single phase feeding your house to get dual voltages it is center tapped so each half of the windings are 1/2 the voltage of the full winding together and this is why most of the wires such as romex you see in a house are black, because each leg is just two halves of the same single phase feeding the transformer. Now 3 phase is a little different as now you have 3 different phases coming and a ground that doubles as a neutral when using one of the three phases like feeding a house in a city of the power lines because all power from generating stations are transmitted with 3 phases and a ground because true 3 phase power doesn’t require a neutral. Only when you branch off one of those three does it require a neutral. That is why I’m the city you see a powerline that will have 3 wires on top and one single one at the bottom. Those three are the three hots and that bottom is the ground. And most businesses use 3 phase power in the city and even on farms. That’s why when you get in the country you’ll notice that the powerlines that were 3 wires on top and one on the bottom becomes one on top and one on the bottom on country roads where no 3 phase is needed and that where one of those phases is branched off in it’s respected direction and is split as equal as possible so much will come from one phase and go one way and the other phases are branched off so each two wire going down a country road will most likely be a different phase from the three in the city and that bottom wire is the neutral and ground. Industrial and commercial buildings will be fed with all three phases as they will need all three to power things like motors and other apparatus’s that require more power to run. And this is where you’ll see multiple color cables for different circuits and industry standard is high voltage is brown, orange and yellow, and purple depending on where you are and a grey for the neutral. That’s the 277/480 volt panels and low voltage is black, red, and blue for the hots and white for the neutrals for 120/208 panels. It makes it way easier is they are color coded to their circuit number as it narrows it down to the circuit numbers. Makes troubleshooting and stuff that much easier. Also side note to find the color code of the wire for your circuit number if it is divisible by 6 evenly it would be blue for low voltage or yellow for high voltage and if it isn’t divisible by 6 to use the remainder. And this assumes you know that circuits 1 and 2 are black for low voltage and brown for high voltage circuits 3 and 4 are red for low voltage and orange for high voltage and 5 and 6 are blue for low voltage and yellow for high voltage. An example would be say you have a panel and you are trying to figure out what color wire to pull for say circuit 30. We’ll 6 goes into that evenly so if you were pulling for a low voltage panel you would pull a blue, if you were pulling for a high voltage panel you would pull a yellow. But now say for instance you run into a circuit that isn’t divisible by 6; say it’s circuit 25 we’ll 6 goes into 25 four times with a remainder of 1. So back when I said that circuit 1 and 2 are black for low voltage and brown for high voltage and that you use the remainder if it’s no divisible by 6. In that case the remainder was 1 so you would base your color or wire off of circuit 1. Odd number are on the left side of a panel and even are on the right side. And the panels are number as such it’s just how the breaker slot is attached to the buss bars that run vertically in the panels, for single phase it’ll be two for 3 phase it will be 3 single buss bars, and it starts at the top with 1 and 2 across from each other so they share the same buss bar attachment point and as you go down it shifts to a different phase so 3 and 4 will share a buss bar connection and 5 and 6 share a connection and so on. Regardless of how many circuits you have. It starts at phase A then goes the phase B then goes to phase C and starts back at A and so forth. I hope i didn’t confuse you much and I know I added a little more information than you asked. But I hope it helps.
@@usmarinekenny Thanks for taking the time to explain. I appreciate the in-depth description.
Yeah, that seemed weird. I only use red for 3-way switches, or sometimes light fixtures.
Thanks bro
Easy money
Just heard ab ur story and I’m just here to say hi
Hi and Happy Holidays!
yall would cry if you saw how long it took some of my students to run a 3-4-3 lighting circuit in conduit. some take more than a day :p which of course, they fail
Yes, I understand. Merry Christmas!
@@SparkyChannel I'm sorry, I had to edit that comment. I meant my students, not any of these guys on these videos!! :) I show your videos to my students for motivation and pacing purposes. Thank you SO MUCH for making these videos! AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU GOOD SIR!
@@HamiltonMechanical Please say "Hi" to your students for me!
Aren't you supposed to start down stream? Otherwise there's potential a hot wire in that panel.
There’s really no potential for the wire to be hot, unless someone flips the breaker.
💯👍👍
Thanks Theo! Merry Christmas!
This goes against all practices of grounding I have done out in the field...do not use a metal box or pipe as your ground...use a ground wire from your ground bar in the panel so that in case the metal parts used to "bond" the panel are compromised the ground will always have a connection to ground through the EGC from the main panel
Excellent. But these competitors weren't given any green wire. In this way, they were tested in their knowledge of EGC code.
Merry Christmas!
To be fair, this is a competition, and they are given a spec that is permitted by code. In the competition are they rewarded or penalized for "improving" the spec? If I was paying for the improvement and it was something I didn't ask for, I'd penalize them! In real life, are you turning down bids because it specs conduit EGC because you refuse to do that? Or paying the cost for the upgrade out of your pocket to get the bid?
Why does everyone think adding a green wire really adds anything safety wise. The code is way tougher than necessary already.
@@TheRetiredtech In my experience, there are significantly more failures that break EGC connectivity with a conduit EGC vs a green wire EGC, especially over improvement and maintenance iterations. No EGC, no fault clearing and now a shock hazard, made worse by the ungrounded bonded conduit and boxes putting the voltage everywhere for someone to come in contact with. Locating+fixing a non-obvious break once you are aware of it is often so much work to be not be cost effective - just slap a GFCI on it or do a new run.
@@RJ-ej1nr Hi RJ! Great to hear from you. Merry Christmas!
The thing is, these guys have to know the code cold. If they don't know what to do if there is no green wire and they are running emt, they aren't going to make it to the next round.
In my opinion he took way to long for a competition. I was doing this faster in my high school competitions. 30 years ago and we used rigid.
Thanks Steven.
Merry Christmas!