i think you should test entry or mid-range machines in these comparisons, 99% of us doesnt have a la marzocco and also part quality will differentiate even more.
I'm excited to see the Test with a more level entry machine. I myself use a Lelit PL41 Plus T (Its an 58mm Machine and no E61 machine). I will change my dispersion screen in the coming week and I'm excited to see if there is a difference. The swich from the Standard to the IMS portafilter was amazing. I hope the switch of the dispersion screen will also have a nice impact. Two easy and not so expensive changes to the machines
@@Sprometheus yes, i can tell for a fact that me and some of my barista friends machines doesnt have as good water flow as the lamarzocco stock screen. it all kinda twirled up together and drop as one stream.
I would say it all depends on where you are living and what do you do for a living. If you make coffee as a hobby at home as you enjoy playing around with all the grind settings, different recipes, etc. La Marzocco is quite pricey and not usually affordable. But if you are the same as me, who is a barista working in a cafe in Australia, this is a really interesting topic. La Marzocco is the most popular machine used at cafes in Australia. However, in some developing countries like Vietnam, my home countries, I agree with you that this machine is something you don't see often. But overall, I agree with you that there should be a test for other machines, shower screens as well. I used Wega, Faema, etc. but have never thought of or had a chance to actually compare them together, so it will be an interesting knowledge and experience to gain.
I always appreciate you testing and reviewing the things that I want to do myself, but do not always have the time (or money) to do! Got to love another solid Spro upload!
Nice video! I would however argue IMS stands for “Industria Materiali Stampati“ rather than "Intergrated Mesh Screen“. The company was originally established in 1946 as I.P.M.S - Industria Pavese Materiali Stampati btw.
I'm glad you covered this, not many channels of this caliber do. Word of warning to Silvia owners, I bought into the IMs craze, and found my shots to come out a bit off, and couldn't figure out why until I noticed the water was coming out unevenly, heavier towards the front. Apparently the diameter of the IMs screen is just too small to fit properly over the group head. If you are having trouble with your shots, give this a look.
several folks on coffee forums and on reddit espresso forums reported that the cheaper version of IMS E61 "Without Nanotec" cleans up as well as the IMS E61 "with Nanotec" and they suggested to save money and buy the cheaper IMS E61 shower screen. Like you, everyone said the espresso taste inside the cup is the same with either stock or IMS E61 shower screen. The only difference is the ease of cleaning, in IMS favour. It also means fewer shower screen removals to clean up the inside of the group head and inside the shower screen as compared to the stock shower screen. The ~$30 (non-nanotec) is not much spend if it means you will spend less time on shower screen cleaning over the several years it will last. Thanks for your videos!
I always think it's pretty hard to tell what a shower screen is actually doing just running water through it without any pressure. I would think once the pressure is built up that dispersion would become even more even. The difference in these definitions seem pretty negligible. Great vid Spro.
I guess pretty soon we'll see a video of Sprometheus at coffee plantations in Brasil, Columbia or Sri Lanka explaining how the different chemical composition of soil influences the final extraction. Great job, as always!
Thanks for the comparison, surprisingly equal! We recently spent the weekend at an experimental coffee plantation here in Costa Rica. Coffea Diversa is in Amtimira very close to the Panama border. This place is a heaven for coffee lovers. They have more than 800 varieties of coffee plants, many developed on premises. The three day visit gets you a mini-tour of the farm and a coffee demonstration in their roastery. Great people very knowlageable in everything coffee. This was my first delving into the other end of the coffee world. Reasonably priced and well worth the trip.
Having been owned by a legendary polydactyl longhair raven haired cat I think they would be outstanding coffee cats. The hallmark of quality is a sleeping cat ~ chef Bourdain loosely quoted. A black sleeping on or near the bar is quality and style points. At a minimum.
Another interesting consideration might be testing shower screens on a lever or spring lever machine. Most screens have the dead spot in the center but I have seen the Cafelat/IMS screen for the modern lever group that eliminates the blank spot and purposefully added openings in the center.
Yeah I’ve seen some stuff on this. Kees Van Der Westin machines use a screen with no deadspot as well. I’m hoping to get my hands on one to see how that affects things. I do think they the design of the dispersion plate will play more of a role in those cases.
I have a breville dual boiler and for the most I've been frustrated with how unevenly the dispersion screen (for me) has been. I tried an IMS version and that was worse. I then watched the flair 58 review and decided to buy the puck plate used in that. The difference is incredible, from a constant uneven bitter taste to a more rounded well balanced taste. Definitely worth a try if you're having problems like I was. Its not too spenny either.
What is the difference between the stock dispersion screen with the puck plate vs. the IMS dispersion screen with the puck plate on the Dual Boiler? I myself have a Dual Boiler, and also the puck plate, and have been wondering whether it is worth the money to upgrade the dispersion screen!
@@josephcarew4966 Hey Joseph, no idea sorry. My IMS dispersion screen is long gone. However y advise would be don't waste your money :) but let us know if you decide to do it.
Are you comparing a 'puck plate' as in a screen you drop on top of the puck ... To a 'shower screen' i.e. the part you screw into the machine's water outlet?
@@SovietGrazz that's correct. The difference between pulling a shot with out the puck plate drop in (just dispersion from the showerhead) to that with it when dropped in.
I bought my Decent DE1+ with the IMS screen but it didn’t come installed. I ran the stock screen for about a month before swapping them. The stock Decent screen looks pretty similar to the La Marzocco one - minus the lion, of course! I didn’t do any fancy tests but I couldn’t tell any difference.
I've moved to IMS over the stock shower screen on my Profitec after it was recommended by WholeLatteLove. Totally agreed that cleanliness is a great plus. Giving it a quick wipe after each shot goes a long way as well as weekly backflush cleanings. At the same time, I upgraded to a silicone based group gasket which gave me a rather drastic improvement. Would be nice to hear your thoughts on other parts of an espresso machines as well.
I did give the silicone gasket a go a little while back, and it decided to go back to the standard. It just seemed too soft and I had to really crank it to keep it from dripping.
@@spike443 the gasket that came with the machine was on the hard side and got harder in a couple of years. I was having trouble using other brand portafilters in place. Being softer, the silicone gasket lets me use more baskets, achieve a good seal with little effort. The previous gasket also broke apart when I took it out. I think rubber gaskets are prone to heat hardening in time. I'm guessing silicone would have a longer life as well.
Sorry for subscribing late. I've been watching a lot of your videos because of these important after-market purchases. Thanks so much for amazing and HONEST reviews!
I think this video would have helped me more if you were comparing one of the aftermarket mesh with the standard mesh. Someone on a forum told me the IMS is inferior to the one that comes stock standard. I'm highly unlikely to buy 2 aftermarket shower screens, I just need to know if it's worth upgrading from standard. Cheers for your content
Agree. The lower screen-the basket-was designed to prevent coffee grounds to get into coffee cup. The upper screen-the shower screen- has nothing to do with the coffee taste but was designed to prevent the ground particles to backflush into the systems. That's it. edit: Things those follow are fancy.
Your LM screen looks really good so I'm not surprised it stood up to the IMS. I have a Gaggia Classic Pro and upgraded to the IMS, they're night and day.
For me the main variable is how much gunk and oil builds up in and behind the screen over time. How often you’ll be required to back flush etc. Enough retained coffee oils and grounds could eventually lead to a difference in the cup.
Water dispersion was an issue on my Breville Infuser, the unit has one water inlet that will wash out 1/3 of the puck, the IMS screen is a water drill and you can't really find enough space to break up the water stream. I made a diffuser plate to go above the screen. It is a bit crude but works great, much more even water distribution over the puck and I can taste the difference. This is an issue on many cheaper units. I think the Gaggia has a much better water dispersion plate.
It's funny you made this video as I recently had an issue with my IMS and had to switch to E&B. I had an E61 and found the E&B has more holes and covered the entire screen. As a result I get super flat beds and really happy with it
@@surfacepro5519 a lot of the espresso doodads are just boredom-upgrades for the mind, not so much for the practical improvements. I notice an improvement with my VST but I've heard the IMS isn't as fussy with the Gaggia. I also have issues with the fit on the VST both into the group head and when trying to knock out the brownies
This might be hard to organise but I think something that would be useful for a lot of folks is to understand whether these aftermarket screens make a noticeable difference compared to the stock screens in the machines people have. Personally I changed out the Silvia screen because I got a kit from pidsilvia to replace the gigantic protruding bolt with a flush bolt. No Ida whether the screen itself made a difference, but I think the bolt did
I ran into the dispersion plate hole mismatch issue with my ECM Casa V and the IMS shower screen. The dispersion plate has 4 holes and there were always at least a couple that were lined up directly with the holes on the IMS. The appearance of the puck after pulling a shot made it obvious that a couple jets were hitting the puck and it was not getting a nice even diffusion, which is supposed to be the purpose of the upgrade! Thankfully the good folks at WLL provided a refund.
I would think that 95% of the flavor comes when the portafilter is pressurized I.e. completely filled with water and coffee. At that point, the screen should not matter.. the screen only matters at the starting infusion and I would guess that as long as it is good enough to not cause channeling in the puck, there won’t be a difference in flavor. So yeah I agree with your conclusion, buy something competent but I would not go overboard
I think the importance is more so applying an even application of water from the screen that builds even pressure and translates into an even extraction, which in turn creates a better tasting shot.
Damn, I came here for answers, I left with a coin flip on my preference, lol. So, comparing two very great screens provided no difference. Have you seen a baratza/sage dual boiler without the portafilter on it? It's insanely uneven, yet where I've read, I'm advised not to look into it, however, videos like these demonstrate that even dispersion without a portafilter is still desirable. Would you suggest that the upgrade on a standard breville/sage dual boiler is necessary, given that the dispersion of water is uneven? Love your chilled formatted videos!
I was hoping to find a clear winner, but sometimes that's just not in the cards. I think an upgrade to the screen may definitely help, and its not an expensive either. Not a lot to lose.
I really appreciate the detail in this video! Weird thought - have you ever been tempted to pick up a Breville Dual Boiler and perform the Slayer mod? I did so recently, and I reckon you’d find I super fascinating.
Thank you Nich! I haven't been tempted really, but I have been curious. If they want to send me one I'd happily take it! But I do have a pressure profiling machine coming up soon!
Hello! I have a Gaggia Classic Pro. Do you think the IMS screen would be a larger difference over the standard screen (since my machine is cheaper)? Great video as always
Im using gaggia classic pro and using ims showe screen + caffewerks gaket as my first mod, i can say yes it give us more consistant extraction. Im aiming for consistant extraction and im get it. Next question for me are vst vs baristapro basket. Maybe someone have experience with both basket can answer my question.
I ended up just ordering one because I feel this may matter on cheaper machines. I just upgraded my portafilter (after hunting for hours) and that already did a marginal improvement to my shots (and gave me a wild espresso high) so I feel the IMS will flow better than the one on my cheaper end machine compared to what others may have on top-dollar
yeah those numbers are definitely within the margin of error. at differences that small it would take hundreds and hundreds of shots to make a definitive conclusion that's not just "the differences are miniscule"
Great video thanks for the comparison. Did you change your flow restrictor to a 0.6 mm one? I notice that even the LM screen gives you a raindrop pattern but with my LM screen (with the stock 0.8 mm flow restrictor) I just get four massive streams of water :(
Cool to see someone having a deeper look into this topic! I would have preferred to see you comparing the IMS/La Marzocco shower screen against cheaper shower screens like the ones already inside machines like the Lelit Mara X or the Rocket Appartamento. Those don't have the same water droplets characteristics. Maybe there is something interesting to find out here.
It’s definitely not a popular topic, but super dense. This one sort of wetted my curiosity and I have another video or two planned to test some other screens.
Hi, Thanks for your work. I own a semi-automatic espresso machine from the 1980s. (Panda deluxe from Ponte Della Priula, Italy). Would it be advisable to replace the dispersion screen or simply clean it?
My IMS screen is a pita to remove from the group. It has no rim on it to lever it off. Other than that I found it is less forgiving over stock when it comes to puck prep. The water drip is better though.
Ι have a rancilio epoca which has the same technology screen as LA marzocco If you open the screens after a month and see behind them,I mean the upper part, you will see that the la marzocco screen is clean cause it's self cleaning The ims screen will have a layer of old grinds
Is there any concern about the coating on the IMS wearing off over time and ending up in your puck? Kind of like the worry many have about the chemicals from non-stick pans ending up in your food.
well can't say much about coffee shower screens, but I think the priciest bathroom upgrade in our place are the shower heads... wifey wanted a shower head that does rain/waterfall, that thing was outrageously expensive... but it sure does make bath experience amazing. I am sure coffee shower screen matters.
Whenever my screen gets a little gummy I place it on a gas burner on my stove and burn off the accumulated oils. Not because I'm cheap. I'm just disorganized and forget to get a new one. The stainless discolors a little but seems to work great.
I've read that cafiza will remove the nano coating of the IMS and potentially ruin it's performance. The non nano-coated version doesn't have this problem
On Simonelli and i might have overlooked the diversion plate. Thanks for mentioning on the alignment. Shall see if i can make any adjustment on it since there are just 4 holes in the middle.
I’d be curious to see if you notice a difference on a bottomless aligned and misaligned with the dispersion plate exits. I could source a machine that quickly to try it for myself.
another benefit of using those metal screen is that it can improve extraction on much much cheaper machine where the main problem is the original group head shower screen is not able to disperse water evenly.
I think flow rate matters a bit more than dispersion screens. My Oscar II has a fast flow rate at the group head and I doubt my IMS screen helps with extraction. The real advantage of having an IMS, at least to me, is being easier to clean. After each shot, all you need is a wipe and one single back flush.
Good video. I am still currently using my la marzocco screen that came with my machine. How long are they usually good for. I do notice that my extraction isn't as sexy looking coming out of the bottomless portafilter anymore
Honestly, they are good for a long time especially when it comes to home use. The wear on screens is so small and essentially is just wearing the holes slightly bigger and less effective at maintaining a steady flow. I think about 2 years for most home machine people making a couple drinks a day would be just fine.
@@TimRogers81 if you haven’t changed out your flow restrictor I’d recommend removing the .08 and putting in a .06. Really slows the water flow to a more reasonable pace.
My friend has a plumbed in profitec pro 700 with an e61 brew group. How would a la marzocco or ims screen do on a machine like that? Better or worse? Will the machine even fit those other screens?
Will you be doing an espresso anatomy video for the espresso puck screen? I saw you cameo it with the Flair 58 but it would be cool to see a "do puck screens matter?" video
Nice video as always. I have had the problem with misalignment using a IMS 200 nanotech screen on my profitec 300. In fact the holes of the screen are at the same radius as the ones of the dispersion plate and the spacing is such that some of the holes unavoidably end up aligned. As a consequence I would get large indententions in the puck indicating uneven extraction, although not visible channeling. So the IMS screen is now back in the box even though it was easier to keep clean.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I was sure this was something that could possibly happen. Better off in the box than messing up your shots, that's for sure.
What's your take on changing the flow rate restrictor (aka gicleur) on the LMLM from 0.8 -> 0.6? Would this not have a bigger impact on the actual extraction and result in the cup?
I think changing the flow restrictor is a cornerstone upgrade. I’ve done it and always recommend it to new Mini owners. The more reasonable flow rate allows for smoother extractions. I had lots of channeling issues with the .08. In terms of extraction and cup results I think overall most will be happier with the .06 because it lowers the occurrence of channels which could have a negative impact on flavor. But you can still pull great shots on .08, just a little more finicky.
Interesting video, other accessories you say ? what about Bilstein or Koni ? 😉 To stay on subject, I've got a Rancilio Silvia, and a IMS screen. But I have countersunk the screw, with a indent to the screen, so I don't have to worry about that screw head poking my pucks anymore.
Sprometheus - my LMLM doesn’t make a nice shower like that at all from the factory. It just squirts 3-4 streams of waters in various directions. Nothing like the nice droplets you show in this video. Any thoughts?
Often times the longer it runs the more the streams will come together. Also, it can have to do with the cleanliness of your screen, particularly on the backside where buildup can block some exits. And lastly, pressure and flow rate can play a role. The more water is hitting the screen the more you’ll get streams as it’s now spreading out as evenly and slowly. My machine was on 6 bar pressure and I have the .06mm jet installed over the stock .08mm that has a much heavier flow rate.
@@Sprometheus this is helpful, thank you. I’m changing to the .6mm gicleur soon which I’m hoping also helps with the intense amount of small sprays I get with a bottomless portafilter despite good puck prep.
The screen doesn't matter because it's not the section of the flow that creates nor release the pressure when the system is under load. Anything between the pump and the release sections will have equal water pressure. Looking at water distribution when the screen is just dripping water doesn't do jack...it's just dripping water. That's not the operational environment / conditions. The screen, at most, does two things: Prevent jets of water when water is initially flowing onto the puck, to prevent immediate erosion. And two, easy cleaning of the screen surface. The water always flow in the direction of low pressure (release point) of the system. Doesn't matter how the holes are distributed on the screen (as long as they're geometrically even)...because any hole is a pathway from high pressure point (the pump) down to the puck / basket (release).
Back to this video again As an espresso freak, I bought and tested the RA 200 IM screen on my Epoca, I didn't find the NanoTech version Until now, I didn't find major differences, I will update my post after a month or more, to see what's under the screen, cause the original screen was always clean 100% P.S. A tip to have a cleaner screen Don't over dose your basket, let some head space, it will better for even dispersion of the water at the top of the puck At mine I don't even see the footprint of the screw, I don't care for that, I care only for taste
Given the utter dominance of E61 machines in the enthusiast/prosumer market across all brands, what else *can* we argue about other than aftermarket shower screens?
Hmm, some Friends who have an Espressos machine told me they did not find any difference in tastes! Guess is a personal opinion. So far, I'm happy with my lelit setup. I don't see any reason to change.more important is a quality basket.
I think that falls under personal preferences. The screens tested here are pretty high quality so I can’t speak for non-prosumer machines. But my first pick would be a basket over a screen.
@@Sprometheus thank you. I have Bezzera BZ16 and the stock basket is only 16g. Maybe i should get a precision basket, what would you prefer for my machine? I do not have a bottomless portafilter.
I have a Linea Mini and the IMS screen, just noticed when cleaning around it that it's loose but the screw is tight. So I dug the original LM screen out and fitted it, which is tight. Any ideas as to the problem,...me possibly ? :)
This is a bit like changing the brakes on a Ferrari and saying new callipers don’t make a difference. Would definitely be interested in seeing IMS screen Vs stock Silvia/GCP
@@Sprometheus Thank you for your reply. I was doing some research and its a very controversial topic. A lot of people think because its a deeper bed and less surface area you need to apply a higher pressure. Its also said to over extract the top and under extract the bottom, but this is all hearsay not actual facts. A lot of people prefer the smaller 53mm basket as its less prone to channeling. Would make for an interesting video if someone had the correct equipment.
I think they build of pressure is key to what makes the IMS work a bit better at dropping the water more cleanly than the LM. Not sure if it was designed with that in mind. I will have to check out this new screen.
They said that there were production delays and expect it to go on sale next month. I believe they were also working on a basket using the same design.
@@Sprometheus Thank you !! so the water is dispersed through 4 holes. that*s the reason for such nice even creamy extraction !! even the Breville Dual Boiler has only one hole. the italians always get it right......
I have an IMS screen and silicon gasket waiting for when the stock ones in my Lucca M58 need replacing. Recently installed flow control and am loving playing around with my pulls. Tempted to add the IMS now to see if it makes any noticable difference but 9 months in, the stock screen and gasket are still in great condition. Upgraditis SUCKS.
Thanks, but what about a comparison by say, the IMS and something like what comes with an ECM or Rocket? Conventional wisdom is that these "nanotech" showers are better. Are they? Oh, and are you Greek? Is that why the name Prometheus?
I definitely am curious about trying other screens, the tough thing is the design varies so much. I’ll be on the lookout for more options though. I’m not Greek, actually I’m Lebanese and German, but the name Sprometheus is kind of a play on how Prometheus brought fire to man, I bring espresso to man,
@@Sprometheus I am sorry for your name. You have betrayed the gods by bringing espresso to man, which was reserved for the gods only. For this you will have your liver eaten by a vulture every day for eternity.... But thanks for the espresso!
Oh no, I guess being wrong about something that makes no substantive difference in the topic of the video means I have to delete my channel. So long TH-cam! 👋🏻
This whole experiment was a thinly veiled excuse for making and drinking a whole lot of espresso and thereby gets my approval.
I think that is what 98% of my videos truly are! Haha
@@Sprometheus as it should be. Ain’t it great?☕️😀
i think you should test entry or mid-range machines in these comparisons, 99% of us doesnt have a la marzocco and also part quality will differentiate even more.
I’ve got a mid-level machine coming soon, excited to bring that one to the table.
I agere, i bet the difference would be more pronounced on a E61 maskine. I made the switch and went from streams to droplets
I'm excited to see the Test with a more level entry machine. I myself use a Lelit PL41 Plus T (Its an 58mm Machine and no E61 machine). I will change my dispersion screen in the coming week and I'm excited to see if there is a difference. The swich from the Standard to the IMS portafilter was amazing. I hope the switch of the dispersion screen will also have a nice impact. Two easy and not so expensive changes to the machines
@@Sprometheus yes, i can tell for a fact that me and some of my barista friends machines doesnt have as good water flow as the lamarzocco stock screen. it all kinda twirled up together and drop as one stream.
I would say it all depends on where you are living and what do you do for a living. If you make coffee as a hobby at home as you enjoy playing around with all the grind settings, different recipes, etc. La Marzocco is quite pricey and not usually affordable. But if you are the same as me, who is a barista working in a cafe in Australia, this is a really interesting topic. La Marzocco is the most popular machine used at cafes in Australia. However, in some developing countries like Vietnam, my home countries, I agree with you that this machine is something you don't see often.
But overall, I agree with you that there should be a test for other machines, shower screens as well. I used Wega, Faema, etc. but have never thought of or had a chance to actually compare them together, so it will be an interesting knowledge and experience to gain.
I always appreciate you testing and reviewing the things that I want to do myself, but do not always have the time (or money) to do! Got to love another solid Spro upload!
Thanks Cameron! Happy to be of assistance! I appreciate your support of the channel!
Nice video! I would however argue IMS stands for “Industria Materiali Stampati“ rather than "Intergrated Mesh Screen“. The company was originally established in 1946 as I.P.M.S - Industria Pavese Materiali Stampati btw.
I'm glad you covered this, not many channels of this caliber do. Word of warning to Silvia owners, I bought into the IMs craze, and found my shots to come out a bit off, and couldn't figure out why until I noticed the water was coming out unevenly, heavier towards the front. Apparently the diameter of the IMs screen is just too small to fit properly over the group head. If you are having trouble with your shots, give this a look.
several folks on coffee forums and on reddit espresso forums reported that the cheaper version of IMS E61 "Without Nanotec" cleans up as well as the IMS E61 "with Nanotec" and they suggested to save money and buy the cheaper IMS E61 shower screen. Like you, everyone said the espresso taste inside the cup is the same with either stock or IMS E61 shower screen. The only difference is the ease of cleaning, in IMS favour. It also means fewer shower screen removals to clean up the inside of the group head and inside the shower screen as compared to the stock shower screen. The ~$30 (non-nanotec) is not much spend if it means you will spend less time on shower screen cleaning over the several years it will last. Thanks for your videos!
I always think it's pretty hard to tell what a shower screen is actually doing just running water through it without any pressure. I would think once the pressure is built up that dispersion would become even more even. The difference in these definitions seem pretty negligible. Great vid Spro.
Thanks for watching my friend!
I guess pretty soon we'll see a video of Sprometheus at coffee plantations in Brasil, Columbia or Sri Lanka explaining how the different chemical composition of soil influences the final extraction. Great job, as always!
That would be a dream to be able to go to origin!
Thanks for the comparison, surprisingly equal!
We recently spent the weekend at an experimental coffee plantation here in Costa Rica. Coffea Diversa is in Amtimira very close to the Panama border. This place is a heaven for coffee lovers. They have more than 800 varieties of coffee plants, many developed on premises. The three day visit gets you a mini-tour of the farm and a coffee demonstration in their roastery. Great people very knowlageable in everything coffee. This was my first delving into the other end of the coffee world. Reasonably priced and well worth the trip.
I think the real question here is: Does having a black cat lead to better espresso? As a fellow servant of a black cat, I say "yes".
I don’t have a lot of statistics to go off of on that, but it’s likely a fact haha.
It's true. I have two, for even betterer espresso.
Having been owned by a legendary polydactyl longhair raven haired cat I think they would be outstanding coffee cats.
The hallmark of quality is a sleeping cat ~ chef Bourdain loosely quoted.
A black sleeping on or near the bar is quality and style points. At a minimum.
You just saved me money. Thank you sir!
Another interesting consideration might be testing shower screens on a lever or spring lever machine. Most screens have the dead spot in the center but I have seen the Cafelat/IMS screen for the modern lever group that eliminates the blank spot and purposefully added openings in the center.
Yeah I’ve seen some stuff on this. Kees Van Der Westin machines use a screen with no deadspot as well. I’m hoping to get my hands on one to see how that affects things. I do think they the design of the dispersion plate will play more of a role in those cases.
It is always interesting to see how much deeper you can even dive into a topic… I thought I was a nerd already 👍🤪
You can always get nerdier! Haha
@@Sprometheus yeah but I have coffee AND pizza and my family 😂🤩 absolutely limited nerd space (or was it extended … 🧐 😉 )
I have a breville dual boiler and for the most I've been frustrated with how unevenly the dispersion screen (for me) has been. I tried an IMS version and that was worse. I then watched the flair 58 review and decided to buy the puck plate used in that. The difference is incredible, from a constant uneven bitter taste to a more rounded well balanced taste. Definitely worth a try if you're having problems like I was. Its not too spenny either.
What is the difference between the stock dispersion screen with the puck plate vs. the IMS dispersion screen with the puck plate on the Dual Boiler?
I myself have a Dual Boiler, and also the puck plate, and have been wondering whether it is worth the money to upgrade the dispersion screen!
@@josephcarew4966 Hey Joseph, no idea sorry. My IMS dispersion screen is long gone. However y advise would be don't waste your money :) but let us know if you decide to do it.
Are you comparing a 'puck plate' as in a screen you drop on top of the puck ... To a 'shower screen' i.e. the part you screw into the machine's water outlet?
@@SovietGrazz that's correct. The difference between pulling a shot with out the puck plate drop in (just dispersion from the showerhead) to that with it when dropped in.
Agreed. I have had no problems with the IMS shower screen, but the puck plate completely cured all dispersion / channeling problems.
I bought my Decent DE1+ with the IMS screen but it didn’t come installed. I ran the stock screen for about a month before swapping them. The stock Decent screen looks pretty similar to the La Marzocco one - minus the lion, of course! I didn’t do any fancy tests but I couldn’t tell any difference.
I've moved to IMS over the stock shower screen on my Profitec after it was recommended by WholeLatteLove. Totally agreed that cleanliness is a great plus. Giving it a quick wipe after each shot goes a long way as well as weekly backflush cleanings.
At the same time, I upgraded to a silicone based group gasket which gave me a rather drastic improvement. Would be nice to hear your thoughts on other parts of an espresso machines as well.
I did give the silicone gasket a go a little while back, and it decided to go back to the standard. It just seemed too soft and I had to really crank it to keep it from dripping.
What did a silicone gasket improve, and how?
@@spike443 the gasket that came with the machine was on the hard side and got harder in a couple of years. I was having trouble using other brand portafilters in place. Being softer, the silicone gasket lets me use more baskets, achieve a good seal with little effort.
The previous gasket also broke apart when I took it out. I think rubber gaskets are prone to heat hardening in time. I'm guessing silicone would have a longer life as well.
Sorry for subscribing late. I've been watching a lot of your videos because of these important after-market purchases. Thanks so much for amazing and HONEST reviews!
I think this video would have helped me more if you were comparing one of the aftermarket mesh with the standard mesh. Someone on a forum told me the IMS is inferior to the one that comes stock standard. I'm highly unlikely to buy 2 aftermarket shower screens, I just need to know if it's worth upgrading from standard. Cheers for your content
Agree.
The lower screen-the basket-was designed to prevent coffee grounds to get into coffee cup.
The upper screen-the shower screen- has nothing to do with the coffee taste but was designed to prevent the ground particles to backflush into the systems.
That's it. edit: Things those follow are fancy.
Your LM screen looks really good so I'm not surprised it stood up to the IMS. I have a Gaggia Classic Pro and upgraded to the IMS, they're night and day.
For me the main variable is how much gunk and oil builds up in and behind the screen over time. How often you’ll be required to back flush etc. Enough retained coffee oils and grounds could eventually lead to a difference in the cup.
Been waiting on a vid about this !!! thanks sm
You’re welcome, and thanks for watching!
Changed the res to 1080p for that IMS flow shot at 3:47. Very satisfying.
It is! I feel like I could watch it on a loop.
Great video and great topic. I second the idea of more mid-range machines tests for comparison, like an E61 grouphead.
Water dispersion was an issue on my Breville Infuser, the unit has one water inlet that will wash out 1/3 of the puck, the IMS screen is a water drill and you can't really find enough space to break up the water stream. I made a diffuser plate to go above the screen. It is a bit crude but works great, much more even water distribution over the puck and I can taste the difference. This is an issue on many cheaper units. I think the Gaggia has a much better water dispersion plate.
It's funny you made this video as I recently had an issue with my IMS and had to switch to E&B. I had an E61 and found the E&B has more holes and covered the entire screen. As a result I get super flat beds and really happy with it
For sure! Definitely isn’t a one screen fits all sort of deal.
May I ask what exactly the issue was with the IMS? I’m considering one.
I just took a look at my Gaggia's distribution & I'm happy with not upgrading, looks just fine
@@surfacepro5519 a lot of the espresso doodads are just boredom-upgrades for the mind, not so much for the practical improvements. I notice an improvement with my VST but I've heard the IMS isn't as fussy with the Gaggia. I also have issues with the fit on the VST both into the group head and when trying to knock out the brownies
Upgraded to IMS shower screen on my Ms Silvia. Worthwhile upgrade.
Most definitely!
Thank you for an honest, well dun vid.
This might be hard to organise but I think something that would be useful for a lot of folks is to understand whether these aftermarket screens make a noticeable difference compared to the stock screens in the machines people have. Personally I changed out the Silvia screen because I got a kit from pidsilvia to replace the gigantic protruding bolt with a flush bolt. No Ida whether the screen itself made a difference, but I think the bolt did
Yes. I feel like this is a much more useful question to ask. Is there even any point in going to an aftermarket screen?
@@spike443 I like both, it's interesting to see this comparison and that two really different screens didn't make any difference
I ran into the dispersion plate hole mismatch issue with my ECM Casa V and the IMS shower screen. The dispersion plate has 4 holes and there were always at least a couple that were lined up directly with the holes on the IMS. The appearance of the puck after pulling a shot made it obvious that a couple jets were hitting the puck and it was not getting a nice even diffusion, which is supposed to be the purpose of the upgrade! Thankfully the good folks at WLL provided a refund.
Interesting! I figured it was possible, but not likely. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I would think that 95% of the flavor comes when the portafilter is pressurized I.e. completely filled with water and coffee. At that point, the screen should not matter.. the screen only matters at the starting infusion and I would guess that as long as it is good enough to not cause channeling in the puck, there won’t be a difference in flavor. So yeah I agree with your conclusion, buy something competent but I would not go overboard
I think the importance is more so applying an even application of water from the screen that builds even pressure and translates into an even extraction, which in turn creates a better tasting shot.
Damn, I came here for answers, I left with a coin flip on my preference, lol. So, comparing two very great screens provided no difference. Have you seen a baratza/sage dual boiler without the portafilter on it? It's insanely uneven, yet where I've read, I'm advised not to look into it, however, videos like these demonstrate that even dispersion without a portafilter is still desirable. Would you suggest that the upgrade on a standard breville/sage dual boiler is necessary, given that the dispersion of water is uneven?
Love your chilled formatted videos!
I was hoping to find a clear winner, but sometimes that's just not in the cards. I think an upgrade to the screen may definitely help, and its not an expensive either. Not a lot to lose.
Great video!😃
Thank you my friend!
I really appreciate the detail in this video!
Weird thought - have you ever been tempted to pick up a Breville Dual Boiler and perform the Slayer mod? I did so recently, and I reckon you’d find I super fascinating.
Thank you Nich!
I haven't been tempted really, but I have been curious. If they want to send me one I'd happily take it! But I do have a pressure profiling machine coming up soon!
Hello! I have a Gaggia Classic Pro. Do you think the IMS screen would be a larger difference over the standard screen (since my machine is cheaper)?
Great video as always
I think a premium screen is a worthy upgrade for any machine regardless of the machines cost. Thanks for watching my friend!
Im using gaggia classic pro and using ims showe screen + caffewerks gaket as my first mod, i can say yes it give us more consistant extraction.
Im aiming for consistant extraction and im get it. Next question for me are vst vs baristapro basket.
Maybe someone have experience with both basket can answer my question.
@@Sprometheus but you haven't tested this, right?
Excellent comparison. This video answered a question I've had now for over a year. And I am sticking with my LM screen, as a result. Thanks!
Great video. I do think this doesn’t apply to 90% of people whose machines aren’t LMs. Stock parts on cheaper machines are way worse than that of LM.
Thanks for the info. Great cups.
Hi, I am Sikh Gains, I do not want next level espresso (or shall I say, cannot afford it right now), but I come for the lovely content anyways :D
Happy to have you here, next level espresso or not, cheers!
Slowmo is a good idea for this test! Haha nice!
Thanks! I thought it was pretty enlightening to look at too.
I ended up just ordering one because I feel this may matter on cheaper machines. I just upgraded my portafilter (after hunting for hours) and that already did a marginal improvement to my shots (and gave me a wild espresso high) so I feel the IMS will flow better than the one on my cheaper end machine compared to what others may have on top-dollar
When you take the Mean of both shower screens (which is arguably more reliable results wise) it’s even more negligible!
LM - 20.96
IMS - 20.9533
yeah those numbers are definitely within the margin of error. at differences that small it would take hundreds and hundreds of shots to make a definitive conclusion that's not just "the differences are miniscule"
Great video thanks for the comparison. Did you change your flow restrictor to a 0.6 mm one? I notice that even the LM screen gives you a raindrop pattern but with my LM screen (with the stock 0.8 mm flow restrictor) I just get four massive streams of water :(
Cool to see someone having a deeper look into this topic!
I would have preferred to see you comparing the IMS/La Marzocco shower screen against cheaper shower screens like the ones already inside machines like the Lelit Mara X or the Rocket Appartamento. Those don't have the same water droplets characteristics.
Maybe there is something interesting to find out here.
It’s definitely not a popular topic, but super dense. This one sort of wetted my curiosity and I have another video or two planned to test some other screens.
@@Sprometheus wetted = pun? nice... or ... whetted ;-) Great work Spro. Keep it up!
I think weather or not you use a puck screen would make more of a difference? Pick screen almost negates any differences
Hi! Iam looking for 58mm precision basket as well shower screen for mine Sunbeam Barista Max EM5300. Which models are indicated? Tks.
Hi, Thanks for your work. I own a semi-automatic espresso machine from the 1980s. (Panda deluxe from Ponte Della Priula, Italy). Would it be advisable to replace the dispersion screen or simply clean it?
My IMS screen is a pita to remove from the group. It has no rim on it to lever it off. Other than that I found it is less forgiving over stock when it comes to puck prep. The water drip is better though.
Yeah I've seen some machines using a different attachment method for the screen, what machine do you use?
@@Sprometheus mine is ECM mechanika slim. Cheers
Ι have a rancilio epoca which has the same technology screen as LA marzocco
If you open the screens after a month and see behind them,I mean the upper part, you will see that the la marzocco screen is clean cause it's self cleaning
The ims screen will have a layer of old grinds
0.02 != 0
There's always a winner :P
Is there any concern about the coating on the IMS wearing off over time and ending up in your puck? Kind of like the worry many have about the chemicals from non-stick pans ending up in your food.
It does seem to wear slightly over time. I’m not sure on the chemical concern though, that’s a good question, I haven’t even considered that.
@@Sprometheus This was one of the reasons I stopped considering IMS baskets and screens but I might be overly-cautious!
@@Crowbr7 I get that. I wonder if they have any response to that. I’ll ask them and let you know.
@@Sprometheus Awesome! Love the channel! Keep up the wonderful work!
@@Crowbr7 thank you, I appreciate the support!
well can't say much about coffee shower screens, but I think the priciest bathroom upgrade in our place are the shower heads... wifey wanted a shower head that does rain/waterfall, that thing was outrageously expensive... but it sure does make bath experience amazing. I am sure coffee shower screen matters.
Haha I do love a proper shower!
Whenever my screen gets a little gummy I place it on a gas burner on my stove and burn off the accumulated oils. Not because I'm cheap. I'm just disorganized and forget to get a new one. The stainless discolors a little but seems to work great.
What I was wondering.. the screw in my Rancilios broke off, but I have an E61 showerscreen lying idle. Would it work okay on the Silvia?
I've read that cafiza will remove the nano coating of the IMS and potentially ruin it's performance. The non nano-coated version doesn't have this problem
I haven’t noticed a quick breakdown of the coating, but I backflush weekly so maybe it’s more of an issue in a cafe environment.
On Simonelli and i might have overlooked the diversion plate.
Thanks for mentioning on the alignment.
Shall see if i can make any adjustment on it since there are just 4 holes in the middle.
I’d be curious to see if you notice a difference on a bottomless aligned and misaligned with the dispersion plate exits. I could source a machine that quickly to try it for myself.
any thought on reviewing the Stainless Steel Shower Holder Diffuser replacement
Thanks for your a value review, in which shower screen I can use for Decent espresso machine?
Use BPlus / Flair screen atop the puck, an unintended benefit of it is an always spotless shower screen.
another benefit of using those metal screen is that it can improve extraction on much much cheaper machine where the main problem is the original group head shower screen is not able to disperse water evenly.
I think flow rate matters a bit more than dispersion screens. My Oscar II has a fast flow rate at the group head and I doubt my IMS screen helps with extraction. The real advantage of having an IMS, at least to me, is being easier to clean. After each shot, all you need is a wipe and one single back flush.
Awesome video as always. Can you make a review of the “E61 Matrix Shower Screen by DVG” i am interested in this screen shower 🚿.
Out of interest, what size basket do you use for 17g? (just in case it's not obvious!)
Good video. I am still currently using my la marzocco screen that came with my machine. How long are they usually good for. I do notice that my extraction isn't as sexy looking coming out of the bottomless portafilter anymore
Honestly, they are good for a long time especially when it comes to home use. The wear on screens is so small and essentially is just wearing the holes slightly bigger and less effective at maintaining a steady flow. I think about 2 years for most home machine people making a couple drinks a day would be just fine.
Awesome thanks. Anything you suggest to up my machine ?
@@TimRogers81 if you haven’t changed out your flow restrictor I’d recommend removing the .08 and putting in a .06. Really slows the water flow to a more reasonable pace.
My friend has a plumbed in profitec pro 700 with an e61 brew group. How would a la marzocco or ims screen do on a machine like that? Better or worse? Will the machine even fit those other screens?
Will you be doing an espresso anatomy video for the espresso puck screen? I saw you cameo it with the Flair 58 but it would be cool to see a "do puck screens matter?" video
Yeah I’ll be putting that thing through it’s paces for sure.
@@Sprometheus Hooray! Looking forward to it. I'm hoping to get mine soon too when they officially ship the Flair 58 presale
Nice video as always. I have had the problem with misalignment using a IMS 200 nanotech screen on my profitec 300. In fact the holes of the screen are at the same radius as the ones of the dispersion plate and the spacing is such that some of the holes unavoidably end up aligned. As a consequence I would get large indententions in the puck indicating uneven extraction, although not visible channeling. So the IMS screen is now back in the box even though it was easier to keep clean.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I was sure this was something that could possibly happen. Better off in the box than messing up your shots, that's for sure.
What's your take on changing the flow rate restrictor (aka gicleur) on the LMLM from 0.8 -> 0.6? Would this not have a bigger impact on the actual extraction and result in the cup?
I think changing the flow restrictor is a cornerstone upgrade. I’ve done it and always recommend it to new Mini owners. The more reasonable flow rate allows for smoother extractions. I had lots of channeling issues with the .08.
In terms of extraction and cup results I think overall most will be happier with the .06 because it lowers the occurrence of channels which could have a negative impact on flavor. But you can still pull great shots on .08, just a little more finicky.
Oh dang, this is what it should look like? My machine shoots 2 jets of water into the portafilter 😩 is that bad?
Do you know the name of the esspresso glasses or where did you get them? Thank you!
Interesting video, other accessories you say ? what about Bilstein or Koni ? 😉
To stay on subject, I've got a Rancilio Silvia, and a IMS screen.
But I have countersunk the screw, with a indent to the screen, so I don't have to worry about that screw head poking my pucks anymore.
I’m riding on Bilsteins at the moment, but I’ve hung up my modding hat. Came as part of the Club package on my MX5 haha
@@Sprometheus 😂 Bilstein here as well.
Sprometheus - my LMLM doesn’t make a nice shower like that at all from the factory. It just squirts 3-4 streams of waters in various directions. Nothing like the nice droplets you show in this video. Any thoughts?
Often times the longer it runs the more the streams will come together. Also, it can have to do with the cleanliness of your screen, particularly on the backside where buildup can block some exits. And lastly, pressure and flow rate can play a role. The more water is hitting the screen the more you’ll get streams as it’s now spreading out as evenly and slowly. My machine was on 6 bar pressure and I have the .06mm jet installed over the stock .08mm that has a much heavier flow rate.
@@Sprometheus this is helpful, thank you. I’m changing to the .6mm gicleur soon which I’m hoping also helps with the intense amount of small sprays I get with a bottomless portafilter despite good puck prep.
Did you test the ims screen vs the stock gaggia screen? Feels like there may be a bigger difference there…
The screen doesn't matter because it's not the section of the flow that creates nor release the pressure when the system is under load. Anything between the pump and the release sections will have equal water pressure. Looking at water distribution when the screen is just dripping water doesn't do jack...it's just dripping water. That's not the operational environment / conditions.
The screen, at most, does two things: Prevent jets of water when water is initially flowing onto the puck, to prevent immediate erosion. And two, easy cleaning of the screen surface.
The water always flow in the direction of low pressure (release point) of the system. Doesn't matter how the holes are distributed on the screen (as long as they're geometrically even)...because any hole is a pathway from high pressure point (the pump) down to the puck / basket (release).
"If you don't, why are you here?"
Well, I don't have an espresso machine but I like coffee, want to learn things and enjoy your videos... :(
Haha, well it sounds like to me you do want next level espresso, machine or not you’re learning it, so welcome my friend!
Back to this video again
As an espresso freak, I bought and tested the RA 200 IM screen on my Epoca, I didn't find the NanoTech version
Until now, I didn't find major differences, I will update my post after a month or more, to see what's under the screen, cause the original screen was always clean 100%
P.S.
A tip to have a cleaner screen
Don't over dose your basket, let some head space, it will better for even dispersion of the water at the top of the puck
At mine I don't even see the footprint of the screw, I don't care for that, I care only for taste
I just got a brand new rocket apartmento and I have 1 single small stream down the center of the shower screen is that normal?
Get this man a screwdriver! Thanks for the video. I’m going for the IMS for my Delonghi.
Given the utter dominance of E61 machines in the enthusiast/prosumer market across all brands, what else *can* we argue about other than aftermarket shower screens?
So what about how they perform against the screen the comes with the machine? That would seem an obvious “control” test as well.
The screen with the lion on it is the screen that comes with the machine .
@@Sprometheus Ah, that makes more sense then. Thanks for clearing that up!
So if you were considering a new shower screen or a simple puck screen to improve your setup, which would you go with?
Hmm, some Friends who have an Espressos machine told me they did not find any difference in tastes! Guess is a personal opinion. So far, I'm happy with my lelit setup. I don't see any reason to change.more important is a quality basket.
does this mean filter basket is more important to upgrade first than the shower screen?
I think that falls under personal preferences. The screens tested here are pretty high quality so I can’t speak for non-prosumer machines. But my first pick would be a basket over a screen.
@@Sprometheus thank you. I have Bezzera BZ16 and the stock basket is only 16g. Maybe i should get a precision basket, what would you prefer for my machine? I do not have a bottomless portafilter.
I have a Linea Mini and the IMS screen, just noticed when cleaning around it that it's loose but the screw is tight. So I dug the original LM screen out and fitted it, which is tight. Any ideas as to the problem,...me possibly ? :)
This is a bit like changing the brakes on a Ferrari and saying new callipers don’t make a difference. Would definitely be interested in seeing IMS screen Vs stock Silvia/GCP
can you use these in conjunction with paper filters?
"Now this is where things get really interesting"...
"There was absolutely no difference whatsoever in the extraction between the two screens"
I came to a very similar conclusion. I used to use la marzoccco screens but it just wasn't clean enough over time. IMS all the way.
Could anyone tell me if there’s much difference when it comes to extraction with 53mm vs 58mm baskets.
Personally don’t think so. I mean you get a wider bed, but I don’t see how that would effect the extraction in a negative way.
@@Sprometheus Thank you for your reply. I was doing some research and its a very controversial topic. A lot of people think because its a deeper bed and less surface area you need to apply a higher pressure. Its also said to over extract the top and under extract the bottom, but this is all hearsay not actual facts. A lot of people prefer the smaller 53mm basket as its less prone to channeling. Would make for an interesting video if someone had the correct equipment.
Waiting for the Matrix shower screen to release. It builds slight pressure before water flows and VERY evenly distributes the water.
I think they build of pressure is key to what makes the IMS work a bit better at dropping the water more cleanly than the LM. Not sure if it was designed with that in mind. I will have to check out this new screen.
They said that there were production delays and expect it to go on sale next month. I believe they were also working on a basket using the same design.
@@sycoaniliz interesting, I haven’t heard of this brand I’ll have to look into it.
What screen model would you recommend for Breville Dual Boiler?
A lot of this hobby is to way over think it all.
Just grind on whatever ya got, tamp, enjoy.
how many exit water holes are there in the grouphead of the Mini .........behind the dispersion screen ......
Just one, the screw that holds the screen then pushes water out in four directions over the screen.
@@Sprometheus Thank you !! so the water is dispersed through 4 holes. that*s the reason for such nice even creamy extraction !! even the Breville Dual Boiler has only one hole. the italians always get it right......
After how much time the shower screen needs to be replaced?
WAIT SISI CAMEO WOW
She has blessed us with her rare on video presence!
I agree 🤝
I have an IMS screen and silicon gasket waiting for when the stock ones in my Lucca M58 need replacing. Recently installed flow control and am loving playing around with my pulls. Tempted to add the IMS now to see if it makes any noticable difference but 9 months in, the stock screen and gasket are still in great condition. Upgraditis SUCKS.
Upgraditis is a real affliction! No rush though, I'd let it ride for a bit longer and get the most out of your current screen if you're happy with it.
Thanks, but what about a comparison by say, the IMS and something like what comes with an ECM or Rocket? Conventional wisdom is that these "nanotech" showers are better. Are they? Oh, and are you Greek? Is that why the name Prometheus?
I definitely am curious about trying other screens, the tough thing is the design varies so much. I’ll be on the lookout for more options though.
I’m not Greek, actually I’m Lebanese and German, but the name Sprometheus is kind of a play on how Prometheus brought fire to man, I bring espresso to man,
@@Sprometheus I am sorry for your name. You have betrayed the gods by bringing espresso to man, which was reserved for the gods only. For this you will have your liver eaten by a vulture every day for eternity.... But thanks for the espresso!
The IMS is a pig to align on the Gaggia, it is an issue especially with light roasts.
Where can I get that?
Wrong info about IMS name. It is the shortening for "INDUSTRIA MATERIALI STAMPATI"
Oh no, I guess being wrong about something that makes no substantive difference in the topic of the video means I have to delete my channel. So long TH-cam! 👋🏻