There are several areas where I find that Jordan Peterson and Marshall Rosenberg are discussing similar ideas, and I am therefore considering making more videos similar to this one. Please comment below, stating if you would like to see more similar videos including both Dr. Peterson and Dr. Rosenberg, and also what you think about their perspectives on this topic!
I wish some vocal minority of people would use Rosenberg's method -- in regards to their thoughts on Peterson. Hear a thought from Peterson, repeat it, without stretching it in a way that's NOT at all what he is saying. Of course, this happens not just toward Peterson, but toward everyone... both from right against left, and left against right. We are talking past one another -- more and more. And Rosenberg's method is needed more than ever. Great video, and would love to see more. Unfortunately, I also could understand why you might not. But I would love to see more personally. Thank ya :)
@@GoGreaterGood Thank you for the support! I hope that we are all here to learn, and perhaps this can be used as a learning opportunity, to translate judgements (in this case about Peterson) to observations, and to try to express these thoughts in giraffe language. Regarding future videos, I am interested in a dialogue regarding which topics are of most interest! Of course, teaching giraffe language will remain the main focus of the channel :)
@@GiraffeNVC As Peterson is teaching NVC concepts in the video you posted, I think this clip clearly fits very well with the channel. I would enjoy seeing additional people of all backgrounds talking about NVC, putting it in their own words or to action in their life in some way. Have you heard of Braver Angels? That's another group trying to foster better communication.
Rosenberg was the total package. no one was a second to him in my mind. too bad that he didn't have any strong 2nd in command. do u have a video of Marshal with others?
Opinions are like arse holes. Everybody’s got one. And here’s mine. 2 great human beings. Both have helped many, including me. They both teach - truth, love, compassion. How to have integrity. Both make the world a better place.
"The conflict will be resolved in 20 minutes FROM the time both parties can accurately express the Needs AND Feelings of the other person to that persons satisfaction" This is a blend of Rogers ( via Peterson) and Rosenberg. Great link. Thanks for making it
I don’t agree with some of the comments made here. I have read from both of them I think they both have ideas that have helped a broad number of people. They explain their premise in very different ways. However, if you listen carefully, at the root, they essentially say the same idea on resolving conflict. Also, Peterson discusses many other issues and doesn’t solely focused on NVC. Whereas Rosenberg’s focus is that, I mean he developed it for goodness sake. I think it’s unfair to judge someone so disgracefully especially if you haven’t looked into the entirety of his work. - I’ve just found this channel and see that it’s main aim is NVC. So I can see how if people would like videos on your channel to be focused on that then there’s no need for any perspective comparisons to Rosenberg. But it’s your channel, so this is just my opinion.
The pope helped thousands of people, specifically he helped traffic abusers. It is irrelevant if people are helped by them, Peterson is a hateful misogynist.
I would say that the perfect combination would be "giraffes aren't nice" and Peterson talking about the hell of not standing behind urself. also Marshal's Love workshop talking about paying for doing things u don't want to is similar to peterson talking about couples acting like 2 snakes thighning around each other and choking each other. like that one clip when he said the women is clipping the nails of her husband too close
I don't think Peterson is teaching NVC here, and I disagree with a lot of his views. However, I think there are lot of people who (quite separately from politics) have had their lives improved by his advice. I feel sad to see that some people have responded to this video by labelling Dr Peterson and failing to empathise with those who have been touched by his words. Labelling someone as judgemental is itself a judgement, and NVC is not effective if it's used as a moral prescription or if we chastise people for not following it. That being said, I don't in fact think Peterson is appropriate for this channel, as he does not teach Nonviolent Communication as laid out by Rosenberg, and several of his ideas such as the belief in an objective dominance hierarchy seem to me antithetical to Rosenberg's framework which emphasises subjective feelings, needs and strategies over objective labels. I'm interested in hearing differing opinions on this, but maybe comparisons of NVC to non-NVC-trained thinkers could take place on a different channel. But I think a lot of people come here for the empathic work with Marshall rather than an intellectual discussion about similarities and differences between different schools of thought. Of course it's your channel so you can do what you want! Just my two cents.
Thank you for sharing! A fun fact that I noticed is that both Peterson and Rosenberg are influenced by Carl Rogers, especially concerning the topic of this video, which explains much of the similarities that I see between them.
@@GiraffeNVC There are definitely some similarities. Peterson's advice about overcoming shyness by looking into people's eyes rather than avoiding eye contact, for example.
I couldn't agree more. The way he presents arguments in interviews I've watched, makes me cringe inside. It's hard to see the Rogerian influence in the way he talks or delivers his points outside of the classroom.
@@valq10 I appreciate your honesty and your balanced comment. I have been reflecting on their differences or similarities in language and messaging. How they both emphasise actionable solutions to conflicts rather than simple diagnosis, the importance of honesty and communication, and that our feelings aren't somebody else's responsibility or caused by others. I like Rosenburgs quote of 'never give them the power to make you submit or rebel' which I think is similar to Petersons emphasis on choice and preparing yourself in a way to afford to stick to your values and leave a job if its in irresolvable conflict with your values. I believe Peterson would be resistant to Rosenburgs historical explanation of our culture and how we got here, and perhaps his use of compassion as a word and practise, but it too isn't completely at odds with some of Peterson's messaging - to strengthen the other person's argument if they cannot do that themselves and to assume ignorance before malevolence (even though these are judgemental terms). I wanted to respond to respectfully correct an assertion that is often wrongly associated to Peterson, he does not insist on an objective dominance hierarchies, we are too used to hearing hierarchy these days and assume dominance. He describes competence hierarchies, and how they've influenced our biology since before we were human and do not need to be associated with power over in any way, but power with. It is my greatest wish to see these two great men have a challenging and enlightening debate as I believe they could've have benefited greatly from each other, if only Rosenburg wasn't taken from us so soon.
Thank you for your compassionate response and honest analysis. I'm also concerned that, after watching interviews, discussions, and reading his book, that Peterson's ideology is centered around domination structures which are indeed antithetical to Rosenburg's compassionate focus. I hope those who have benefitted from Peterson's work absorb the aspects that supports human thriving and leave behind the misogyny, emotional suppression, and toxic masculinity that has been contributing to loneliness and suicide among men.
I'm going to be honest, I'm *very* surprised to see Peterson teaching these ideas, because in all the interviews with him that I have seen, he has not once demonstrated them with his words or actions in those situations. I feel strangely uncomfortable listening to him here because it's hard to believe that he genuinely understands or promotes nondirective, person-centered, or nonviolent principles. If he does, I haven't seen it in his other work.
Thank you for sharing! I can see your point here. I find that he sometimes sounds kind of angry when speaking, and it does not help that there is a part of his fanbase who like to promote when he is "winning" arguments. If you would like to see another side of him, I can recommend to have a look at his university lectures, such as the following one, which is about Carl Rogers' work: th-cam.com/video/V9Ql5V7-OQo/w-d-xo.html
@smmshoe Both these things are relevant. Pay attention to the whole person. Peterson is a frequent manipulator and abuser regardless of his other successes. There are a billion people just as qualified or moreso who do not also inflame violence and hatred and wed themselves to the alt-right.
@@GiraffeNVC Thank you for your interest. Body language, tone of voice, the demeanor of “ I know mind”. I am an admirer of Marshall Rosenberg and I listen and study a lot by listening to him. The way they deliver the message is very different. I have never heard mr Peterson before. I suppose I was expecting someone like Marshall… What I found interesting is he might be the sweetest and most pacific man in the world but I wasn’t really open to listen due to the form he delivered. It is a learning moment for me. Thank you for your service.
Jordan Peterson has a strong passion and he is a very good teacher. My daughter feels in a similar way she agrees with his words but the way of delivering is to much. History is violent, Peterson is telling the harsh truth and he wants people to know how easy it is for people to forget it and risk acting the same way, if we don't, verbally, communicate 🙏
@@GiraffeNVC Sure, re: being judgmental, he refuses to use or acknowledge personal pronouns. A person with personal pronouns would tell you that's a need of theirs, I'm sure. I think you could also call this judgmental language: "“CEOs should wake up and understand that HR is becoming an anti-capitalist fifth column in the middle of their organisations.” from this article: www.personneltoday.com/hr/jordan-peterson-gender-pay-gap-exist/ He has a very strong influence on men with mysoginistic tendencies which is very worrying. Would you also like examples of Rosenberg being compassionate? I think he does it on a regular basis.
I find that the word and concepts are identical to Rosenberg. I find that how he pushes his voice is stressful. It reminds me of how peoples can push ideas onto other to slap others. Which is the point he is making. Maybe he talks way more lovingly when he talks about the solution. He is good at expressing that to listen to others to there satisfaction can be annoying (by being annoying.) It is a great example of the right words said from the wrong place in the heart.. Definitely keep the guy but explain why it is not working. Again, maybe he has a huge range of expression and is embodying a conflict personality to illustrate a point. I like Kyle Cease, Matt Khan, Mooji, Adyashanti, Pamela Aarleen, Abbey Normal, Umani. They all speak from the same place. Wich is more important than just tecknik Thank you. And thank you for your wonderful work. I hope to see video of you too. Your struggles and success with the technick and with your heart. 😻
@@HannaBech Personal pronouns are not a need. They are a strategy. The need might be for respect or safety. If someone didn't want to call someone by their preferred pronoun, that person might have a need for autonomy. Who knows? Remember the difference between requests and demands? What Peterson objects to is the demand that someone's preferred pronoun be used. He has stated multiple times that he would call someone by their pronoun if they earned it and has even done so on television. I can give rebuttals to your other arguments as well.
I subbed for videos of Marshall's past lectures and trainings regarding NVC. I did not sub for videos comparing his work to that of an alt-right professor moonlighting as a self-help grifter, who likes to hide behind the protection that the legitimacy and language of academia grant him, so that he can openly espouse his ignorant and bigoted viewpoints. Really sad to see the channel heading in this direction.
@@GoGreaterGood I hope that we are all here to learn, and perhaps this can be used as a learning opportunity. @Jonah Lynch, would you be willing to translate your previous message to NVC, by replacing judgements and evaluations with specific observations? For your support, refer to the video of Marshall "How to express observations".
It sounds like you may have some frustration in having something you love being compared favourably with someone you dislike? Or maybe anger about platforming someone you see as unhelpful? There was a women in the comments who expressed a distaste for Peterson's tone and expressions and being unable to hear him behind them, if I were to compare them to Rosenburgs they may appear quite aggressive and angry at times. I myself felt grateful having come across Rosenburg before Peterson as I would not have been able to hear Peterson (and he has been helpful to me) through his delivery had I not first appreciated NVC. Perhaps you are upset or fearful that someone using judgemental language is being helpful to so many people. I myself feel frustration when he says things loudly and what I would judge to be harshly and inflexibly. However I try not to throw out all the good with what I've deemed to be the bad in him. I hope you'd be willing to respond to my reflections with your own as I feel sad when I see Peterson only represented as an alt-right grifter.
There are several areas where I find that Jordan Peterson and Marshall Rosenberg are discussing similar ideas, and I am therefore considering making more videos similar to this one. Please comment below, stating if you would like to see more similar videos including both Dr. Peterson and Dr. Rosenberg, and also what you think about their perspectives on this topic!
I wish some vocal minority of people would use Rosenberg's method -- in regards to their thoughts on Peterson. Hear a thought from Peterson, repeat it, without stretching it in a way that's NOT at all what he is saying. Of course, this happens not just toward Peterson, but toward everyone... both from right against left, and left against right. We are talking past one another -- more and more. And Rosenberg's method is needed more than ever.
Great video, and would love to see more. Unfortunately, I also could understand why you might not. But I would love to see more personally. Thank ya :)
@@GoGreaterGood Thank you for the support! I hope that we are all here to learn, and perhaps this can be used as a learning opportunity, to translate judgements (in this case about Peterson) to observations, and to try to express these thoughts in giraffe language.
Regarding future videos, I am interested in a dialogue regarding which topics are of most interest! Of course, teaching giraffe language will remain the main focus of the channel :)
@@GiraffeNVC As Peterson is teaching NVC concepts in the video you posted, I think this clip clearly fits very well with the channel. I would enjoy seeing additional people of all backgrounds talking about NVC, putting it in their own words or to action in their life in some way. Have you heard of Braver Angels? That's another group trying to foster better communication.
Rosenberg was the total package. no one was a second to him in my mind. too bad that he didn't have any strong 2nd in command. do u have a video of Marshal with others?
These are my two favorite people I go to for guidance on interpersonal issues. I would love to see more videos with them together
Opinions are like arse holes. Everybody’s got one. And here’s mine. 2 great human beings. Both have helped many, including me. They both teach - truth, love, compassion. How to have integrity. Both make the world a better place.
Peterson makes the world a worse place, there is nothing he offers that isn't available elsewhere without the hate and propaganda.
Both these men have helped my life dramatically.
same here
"The conflict will be resolved in 20 minutes FROM the time both parties can accurately express the Needs AND Feelings of the other person to that persons satisfaction" This is a blend of Rogers ( via Peterson) and Rosenberg. Great link. Thanks for making it
I don’t agree with some of the comments made here. I have read from both of them I think they both have ideas that have helped a broad number of people. They explain their premise in very different ways. However, if you listen carefully, at the root, they essentially say the same idea on resolving conflict. Also, Peterson discusses many other issues and doesn’t solely focused on NVC. Whereas Rosenberg’s focus is that, I mean he developed it for goodness sake. I think it’s unfair to judge someone so disgracefully especially if you haven’t looked into the entirety of his work.
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I’ve just found this channel and see that it’s main aim is NVC. So I can see how if people would like videos on your channel to be focused on that then there’s no need for any perspective comparisons to Rosenberg. But it’s your channel, so this is just my opinion.
The pope helped thousands of people, specifically he helped traffic abusers. It is irrelevant if people are helped by them, Peterson is a hateful misogynist.
I would say that the perfect combination would be "giraffes aren't nice" and Peterson talking about the hell of not standing behind urself. also Marshal's Love workshop talking about paying for doing things u don't want to is similar to peterson talking about couples acting like 2 snakes thighning around each other and choking each other. like that one clip when he said the women is clipping the nails of her husband too close
I loved Marshall
I don't think Peterson is teaching NVC here, and I disagree with a lot of his views. However, I think there are lot of people who (quite separately from politics) have had their lives improved by his advice. I feel sad to see that some people have responded to this video by labelling Dr Peterson and failing to empathise with those who have been touched by his words. Labelling someone as judgemental is itself a judgement, and NVC is not effective if it's used as a moral prescription or if we chastise people for not following it. That being said, I don't in fact think Peterson is appropriate for this channel, as he does not teach Nonviolent Communication as laid out by Rosenberg, and several of his ideas such as the belief in an objective dominance hierarchy seem to me antithetical to Rosenberg's framework which emphasises subjective feelings, needs and strategies over objective labels. I'm interested in hearing differing opinions on this, but maybe comparisons of NVC to non-NVC-trained thinkers could take place on a different channel. But I think a lot of people come here for the empathic work with Marshall rather than an intellectual discussion about similarities and differences between different schools of thought. Of course it's your channel so you can do what you want! Just my two cents.
Thank you for sharing! A fun fact that I noticed is that both Peterson and Rosenberg are influenced by Carl Rogers, especially concerning the topic of this video, which explains much of the similarities that I see between them.
@@GiraffeNVC There are definitely some similarities. Peterson's advice about overcoming shyness by looking into people's eyes rather than avoiding eye contact, for example.
I couldn't agree more. The way he presents arguments in interviews I've watched, makes me cringe inside. It's hard to see the Rogerian influence in the way he talks or delivers his points outside of the classroom.
@@valq10 I appreciate your honesty and your balanced comment. I have been reflecting on their differences or similarities in language and messaging. How they both emphasise actionable solutions to conflicts rather than simple diagnosis, the importance of honesty and communication, and that our feelings aren't somebody else's responsibility or caused by others. I like Rosenburgs quote of 'never give them the power to make you submit or rebel' which I think is similar to Petersons emphasis on choice and preparing yourself in a way to afford to stick to your values and leave a job if its in irresolvable conflict with your values.
I believe Peterson would be resistant to Rosenburgs historical explanation of our culture and how we got here, and perhaps his use of compassion as a word and practise, but it too isn't completely at odds with some of Peterson's messaging - to strengthen the other person's argument if they cannot do that themselves and to assume ignorance before malevolence (even though these are judgemental terms).
I wanted to respond to respectfully correct an assertion that is often wrongly associated to Peterson, he does not insist on an objective dominance hierarchies, we are too used to hearing hierarchy these days and assume dominance. He describes competence hierarchies, and how they've influenced our biology since before we were human and do not need to be associated with power over in any way, but power with.
It is my greatest wish to see these two great men have a challenging and enlightening debate as I believe they could've have benefited greatly from each other, if only Rosenburg wasn't taken from us so soon.
Thank you for your compassionate response and honest analysis. I'm also concerned that, after watching interviews, discussions, and reading his book, that Peterson's ideology is centered around domination structures which are indeed antithetical to Rosenburg's compassionate focus. I hope those who have benefitted from Peterson's work absorb the aspects that supports human thriving and leave behind the misogyny, emotional suppression, and toxic masculinity that has been contributing to loneliness and suicide among men.
Shame the path Jordan Peterson chose to walk. His old lecture videos are magical.
I'm going to be honest, I'm *very* surprised to see Peterson teaching these ideas, because in all the interviews with him that I have seen, he has not once demonstrated them with his words or actions in those situations. I feel strangely uncomfortable listening to him here because it's hard to believe that he genuinely understands or promotes nondirective, person-centered, or nonviolent principles. If he does, I haven't seen it in his other work.
Thank you for sharing! I can see your point here. I find that he sometimes sounds kind of angry when speaking, and it does not help that there is a part of his fanbase who like to promote when he is "winning" arguments. If you would like to see another side of him, I can recommend to have a look at his university lectures, such as the following one, which is about Carl Rogers' work:
th-cam.com/video/V9Ql5V7-OQo/w-d-xo.html
Peterson is very valuable. watch interviews and not only "here are 5 minutes on NBC now start arguing so people won't change the channel"
@smmshoe Both these things are relevant. Pay attention to the whole person. Peterson is a frequent manipulator and abuser regardless of his other successes. There are a billion people just as qualified or moreso who do not also inflame violence and hatred and wed themselves to the alt-right.
For some reason, I cannot truly listen to the first speaker. I can handle passion and I experience his demeanor as violent> interesting.
Thank you for sharing! Is this due to his tone of voice and his body language?
@@GiraffeNVC
Thank you for your interest. Body language, tone of voice, the demeanor of “ I know mind”. I am an admirer of Marshall Rosenberg and I listen and study a lot by listening to him. The way they deliver the message is very different.
I have never heard mr Peterson before. I suppose I was expecting someone like Marshall…
What I found interesting is he might be the sweetest and most pacific man in the world but I wasn’t really open to listen due to the form he delivered. It is a learning moment for me. Thank you for your service.
Jordan Peterson has a strong passion and he is a very good teacher. My daughter feels in a similar way she agrees with his words but the way of delivering is to much. History is violent, Peterson is telling the harsh truth and he wants people to know how easy it is for people to forget it and risk acting the same way, if we don't, verbally, communicate 🙏
Very disappointed to see Jordan Peterson here. He has so many judgmental ideas in some areas, whereas Rosenberg is based in compassion.
Thank you for sharing! What specifically have you observed, that you have evaluated in this way?
@@GiraffeNVC Sure, re: being judgmental, he refuses to use or acknowledge personal pronouns. A person with personal pronouns would tell you that's a need of theirs, I'm sure. I think you could also call this judgmental language: "“CEOs should wake up and understand that HR is becoming an anti-capitalist fifth column in the middle of their organisations.” from this article: www.personneltoday.com/hr/jordan-peterson-gender-pay-gap-exist/
He has a very strong influence on men with mysoginistic tendencies which is very worrying.
Would you also like examples of Rosenberg being compassionate? I think he does it on a regular basis.
I find that the word and concepts are identical to Rosenberg.
I find that how he pushes his voice is stressful. It reminds me of how peoples can push ideas onto other to slap others. Which is the point he is making.
Maybe he talks way more lovingly when he talks about the solution.
He is good at expressing that to listen to others to there satisfaction can be annoying (by being annoying.)
It is a great example of the right words said from the wrong place in the heart..
Definitely keep the guy but explain why it is not working.
Again, maybe he has a huge range of expression and is embodying a conflict personality to illustrate a point.
I like Kyle Cease, Matt Khan, Mooji, Adyashanti, Pamela Aarleen, Abbey Normal, Umani.
They all speak from the same place.
Wich is more important than just tecknik
Thank you.
And thank you for your wonderful work.
I hope to see video of you too.
Your struggles and success with the technick and with your heart.
😻
@@HannaBech Personal pronouns are not a need. They are a strategy. The need might be for respect or safety. If someone didn't want to call someone by their preferred pronoun, that person might have a need for autonomy. Who knows? Remember the difference between requests and demands? What Peterson objects to is the demand that someone's preferred pronoun be used. He has stated multiple times that he would call someone by their pronoun if they earned it and has even done so on television. I can give rebuttals to your other arguments as well.
@@BitterTast3 and @Hanna Bech - Thank you both for sharing and learning :)
I subbed for videos of Marshall's past lectures and trainings regarding NVC. I did not sub for videos comparing his work to that of an alt-right professor moonlighting as a self-help grifter, who likes to hide behind the protection that the legitimacy and language of academia grant him, so that he can openly espouse his ignorant and bigoted viewpoints.
Really sad to see the channel heading in this direction.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I will keep this in mind going forward 👍 EDIT: Furthermore, see my reply below.
care to share a *specific* quote that shows him as bigoted? since there are 1000s of hours of him speaking recorded, shouldn't be too difficult.
@@GoGreaterGood I hope that we are all here to learn, and perhaps this can be used as a learning opportunity. @Jonah Lynch, would you be willing to translate your previous message to NVC, by replacing judgements and evaluations with specific observations? For your support, refer to the video of Marshall "How to express observations".
It sounds like you may have some frustration in having something you love being compared favourably with someone you dislike? Or maybe anger about platforming someone you see as unhelpful?
There was a women in the comments who expressed a distaste for Peterson's tone and expressions and being unable to hear him behind them, if I were to compare them to Rosenburgs they may appear quite aggressive and angry at times. I myself felt grateful having come across Rosenburg before Peterson as I would not have been able to hear Peterson (and he has been helpful to me) through his delivery had I not first appreciated NVC.
Perhaps you are upset or fearful that someone using judgemental language is being helpful to so many people. I myself feel frustration when he says things loudly and what I would judge to be harshly and inflexibly. However I try not to throw out all the good with what I've deemed to be the bad in him.
I hope you'd be willing to respond to my reflections with your own as I feel sad when I see Peterson only represented as an alt-right grifter.